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350,000 NXT Bounty - Physical Goods Store - Please Help Spread the Word singapore
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Author Topic: 350,000 NXT Bounty - Physical Goods Store - Please Help Spread the Word  (Read 11339 times)

anon136

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BOUNTY CURRENTLY SET AT 350,000NXT

I think this is a relatively substantial amount of money so bear in mind that the bounty will only be given if the job is done right, is relatively bug free, and looks like legitimately professional work.

I am looking for someone or a team of people who can develop a locally run program that will scan the blockchain; locate arbitrary messages conforming to a prescribed format; extract the relevant data from those messages; open, run, download, and seed magnet links for torrents contained in the arbitrary message; interpret and display all of the relevant information contained in the AM as well as in an HTML file downloaded via torrent in a professional looking and human readable format. Think ebay. At the top of an ebay add is a neat presentation of all of the relevant data, then below that is a field for the seller to insert his own custom html based advertisement.

additionally we will need to describe some syntax and methodology for leaving an arbitrary message tagged as feedback for a particular order on the blockchain so that external trust systems can be built out of that information. Building the trust system its self is not part of this job, only providing the means for such a system to be build.

thanks for taking a look!
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 06:12:57 pm by anon136 »
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jl777

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I can do all of the non HTML, non user interface portions

NXTprotocol already does:"a locally run program that will scan the blockchain; locate arbitrary messages conforming to a prescribed format; extract the relevant data from those messages; open, run, download, and seed magnet links for torrents contained in the arbitrary message; interpret and display all of the relevant information contained in the AM", except for the magnet link processing part.

also "additionally we will need to describe some syntax and methodology for leaving an arbitrary message tagged as feedback for a particular order on the blockchain so that external trust systems can be built out of that information" is not a problem

I had thought your project needed to actually conduct the commerce, but it sounds like it is just a way to post listings and feedback? Is there an auction process? How will we know if someone is posting valid feedback if we dont know who traded with whom

I dont understand the need for the magnet links and torrents part, I guess you want people to be able to display super fancy webpages that wont fit into 1000 bytes?

Dont you also need a categorization ability? What do you think of a websockets implementation that runs locally, but you send it commands via http://127.0.0.1/?parameters

The parameters would be able to specify listing details, search requests, etc. if you make a list of commands you see the GUI portions needing, I can whip a text version up you can run on a Mac.

James
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anon136

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yep the magnet link processing part is the reason why the bounty is so high. it will basically have to have a torrent program built in but it will need to be as seamless as possible. i dont want the end user to need to mess with that at all except in unavoidable circumstances (firewalls mostly). everyone's client will need to automatically download and seed all nxt physical goods store related torrents and automatically delete them when their auction expires.

no auction process at first. trying to leave out needless complexity and most people dont really want to deal with auctions anyway. it will just be post a price and a length of time till expire, and then customer will always do buyout at what ever price the seller sets. maybe we can go back and add auctions later.

let me think about the feedback spoofing problem for a bit

its not a question of what can and cant fit into x number of bytes. any amount of space on any blockchain is and will always be at a premium. and i mean if nothing else you obviously need pictures of what ever you are selling. that cant be stored on the blockchain cheaply. sure you could link to a url but torrents offer maximum censorship resistance and a simple way for people to host their own content. its a much better solution than relying on 3rd party web servers or making your own web servers.

as far as categories are concerned, people who post an auction maybe but i think tags and filters could work well enough.

thanks jl maybe you could be part of a team and you guys could split the bounty.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 07:33:45 am by farl4bit, Reason: Deleted unnecessary direct full-quote »
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jl777

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So, a test based version could start with just using a user specified URL. It seems the magnet link stuff is cool, but actually a totally separate thing. If you came up with the commands you see the system needing, I can quickly come up with a text version that the GUI/magnetlink app can call using NXT like API method.

On the feedback spoofing, it seems that the buyer can show he sent payment in via blockchain, documenting at the time with an AM. So we will know who has the right to post feedback on the seller. He just needs to make a "website" token where the "website" is his feedback text. I already have code working that uses this method to authenticate, [{text that needs to be autheticated},{token of previous field}]

James
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 07:34:05 am by farl4bit, Reason: Deleted unnecessary direct full-quote »
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abctc

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Quote
Please Help Spread the Word
- Russian translation placed here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345882.msg6189062#msg6189062
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anon136

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thanks!
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 07:34:24 am by farl4bit, Reason: Deleted unnecessary direct full-quote »
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anon136

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I can do all of the non HTML, non user interface portions

NXTprotocol already does:"a locally run program that will scan the blockchain; locate arbitrary messages conforming to a prescribed format; extract the relevant data from those messages; open, run, download, and seed magnet links for torrents contained in the arbitrary message; interpret and display all of the relevant information contained in the AM", except for the magnet link processing part.

also "additionally we will need to describe some syntax and methodology for leaving an arbitrary message tagged as feedback for a particular order on the blockchain so that external trust systems can be built out of that information" is not a problem

I had thought your project needed to actually conduct the commerce, but it sounds like it is just a way to post listings and feedback? Is there an auction process? How will we know if someone is posting valid feedback if we dont know who traded with whom

I dont understand the need for the magnet links and torrents part, I guess you want people to be able to display super fancy webpages that wont fit into 1000 bytes?

Dont you also need a categorization ability? What do you think of a websockets implementation that runs locally, but you send it commands via http://127.0.0.1/?parameters

The parameters would be able to specify listing details, search requests, etc. if you make a list of commands you see the GUI portions needing, I can whip a text version up you can run on a Mac.

James

yep the magnet link processing part is the reason why the bounty is so high. it will basically have to have a torrent program built in but it will need to be as seamless as possible. i dont want the end user to need to mess with that at all except in unavoidable circumstances (firewalls mostly). everyone's client will need to automatically download and seed all nxt physical goods store related torrents and automatically delete them when their auction expires.

no auction process at first. trying to leave out needless complexity and most people dont really want to deal with auctions anyway. it will just be post a price and a length of time till expire, and then customer will always do buyout at what ever price the seller sets. maybe we can go back and add auctions later.

let me think about the feedback spoofing problem for a bit

its not a question of what can and cant fit into x number of bytes. any amount of space on any blockchain is and will always be at a premium. and i mean if nothing else you obviously need pictures of what ever you are selling. that cant be stored on the blockchain cheaply. sure you could link to a url but torrents offer maximum censorship resistance and a simple way for people to host their own content. its a much better solution than relying on 3rd party web servers or making your own web servers.

as far as categories are concerned, people who post an auction maybe but i think tags and filters could work well enough.

thanks jl maybe you could be part of a team and you guys could split the bounty.
So, a test based version could start with just using a user specified URL. It seems the magnet link stuff is cool, but actually a totally separate thing. If you came up with the commands you see the system needing, I can quickly come up with a text version that the GUI/magnetlink app can call using NXT like API method.

On the feedback spoofing, it seems that the buyer can show he sent payment in via blockchain, documenting at the time with an AM. So we will know who has the right to post feedback on the seller. He just needs to make a "website" token where the "website" is his feedback text. I already have code working that uses this method to authenticate, [{text that needs to be autheticated},{token of previous field}]

James

ill be out with my family for a while. ill be thinking about all of these things while im out. ill get back with you later tonight.
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jl777

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It would be nice to have a project where I am not having to do something that has never been done before, like most my other projects. This one could be the project I work on when testnet is broken and am not up for cutting edge stuff

James

Edit: With the magnet link support, wouldnt this also be a decentralized torrent listing "website"? With the websockets interface it will look just like a website, except all the data is from the blockchain and the "website" is locally generated on your computer. The whole categorization issue seems to be in common with auction listings or torrent files for download
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 07:34:58 am by farl4bit, Reason: Deleted unnecessary direct full-quote »
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anon136

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it wouldnt look just like a regular website. there would be a bunch of parameters that the client would need to list in addition to the magnet link to an html. so some of it would be standard form stuff that would be common to every advertisement. then a subsection of the advert would allow for the total customization that html allows.

yea in some sense it could be the underpinnings for something much larger than just a marketplace. it could lay the foundation for a new type of internet. in general blockchain technology and torrent technology could interface with eachother to do some really new and exciting things. we get the best of both worlds, the lack of need for total redundancy by every participant and permanent data storage in torrents, but then the consensus mechanism of the blockchain to do cool things that we cant do with torrents alone.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 07:35:18 am by farl4bit, Reason: Deleted unnecessary direct full-quote »
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jl777

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yea in some sense it could be the underpinnings for something much larger than just a marketplace. it could lay the foundation for a new type of internet. in general blockchain technology and torrent technology could interface with eachother to do some really new and exciting things. we get the best of both worlds, the lack of need for total redundancy by every participant and permanent data storage in torrents, but then the consensus mechanism of the blockchain to do cool things that we cant do with torrents alone.
Now I see why you put a significant bounty on it. Are you saying there is no blockchain+torrent tech already?
At first, I thought this was a boring project :)
Since I cant get testnet to confirm my transactions today, I will poke around torrent software. I found libtorrent, which I might be able to put into a NXTprotocol handler. If I can, then all that would be left would be a decent webpage interface, but it just has to talk to the websockets or just issue JSON commands to 127.0.0.1/NXTorrentplace

not sure about that name

James
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anon136

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Re: 350,000 NXT Bounty - Physical Goods Store - Please Help Spread the Word
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2014, 10:40:06 pm »

There are probably existing libraries out there that can do a lot of the heavy lifting (some of which you have written yourself). Most of the work is going to involve getting them to interface with each other i think, then some gui stuff and a little bit of custom work in getting torrents to be automated and hidden behind the scenes.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 07:35:43 am by farl4bit, Reason: Deleted unnecessary direct full-quote »
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msin

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Re: 350,000 NXT Bounty - Physical Goods Store - Please Help Spread the Word
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2014, 11:02:39 pm »

Is this a personal bounty or an unclaimed Nxt bounty?  I think we could rally a few stakeholders and get his up to 500k if done right.  Really would like to see this get done.
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anon136

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Re: 350,000 NXT Bounty - Physical Goods Store - Please Help Spread the Word
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2014, 11:06:37 pm »

Is this a personal bounty or an unclaimed Nxt bounty?  I think we could rally a few stakeholders and get his up to 500k if done right.  Really would like to see this get done.

its all personal. i would certainly be open to some additional funds from the infrastructure committee committee.

*edit* or i should say personal promotional funds. they were donated to me from a ipo investor who read my paper and wanted to bring his total under 10million.
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jl777

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Re: 350,000 NXT Bounty - Physical Goods Store - Please Help Spread the Word
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2014, 11:13:28 pm »

having a bit of a problem compiling libtorrents
if anybody knows of a good torrent library to use, let me know
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anon136

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Re: 350,000 NXT Bounty - Physical Goods Store - Please Help Spread the Word
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2014, 01:03:06 am »

so I've been thinking about the reputation spoofing problem.

so the seller posts his add. the buyer sends the funds to the address he used to post his add. the buyer waits for the product to arrive. then the buyer sends an arbitrary message referencing the add + feedback. if someone else tried to leave feedback everyone could ignore then because the feedback wouldnt have come from the address that was used to make the purchase. if the legit account tried to leave feedback twice for the same order than it could ignore that also with just a rule that it required reference to the add and feedback can only be accepted once for each add.

2 problems: what happens if two people pay for the good at the same time in the same block. and second what if someone buys something just for the sake of leaving negative feedback to hurt the sellers reputation. there would be no means for the seller to deny certain buyers. for the first problem we may need to ask jl for some tiny modification to the core. for the second i think we can just deal with it. good sellers may not have the same level of rep here that they do on ebay but that would just normalize and everyone would come to think of 90% in our system to be as good as 99% in ebay or w/e. something like that.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 01:06:21 am by anon136 »
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msin

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Re: 350,000 NXT Bounty - Physical Goods Store - Please Help Spread the Word
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2014, 01:04:28 am »

Is this a personal bounty or an unclaimed Nxt bounty?  I think we could rally a few stakeholders and get his up to 500k if done right.  Really would like to see this get done.

its all personal. i would certainly be open to some additional funds from the infrastructure committee committee.

*edit* or i should say personal promotional funds. they were donated to me from a ipo investor who read my paper and wanted to bring his total under 10million.

I certainly think we could get an additional 150k from unclaimed committee once the project is finished.  I also think guys like Neer and Klee would really like this project's potential and may be willing to donate a little.
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anon136

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Re: 350,000 NXT Bounty - Physical Goods Store - Please Help Spread the Word
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2014, 01:07:33 am »

actually some of this is money that was donated by klee ages ago but not much. he may be interested in donating more. if you sent them a link to this thread i would appreciate it otherwise let me know and ill do it. good idea thanks.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 07:36:07 am by farl4bit, Reason: Deleted unnecessary direct full-quote »
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jl777

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Re: 350,000 NXT Bounty - Physical Goods Store - Please Help Spread the Word
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2014, 01:08:26 am »

so I've been thinking about the reputation spoofing problem.

so the seller posts his add. the buyer sends the funds to the address he used to post his add. the buyer waits for the product to arrive. then the buyer sends an arbitrary message referencing the add + feedback. if someone else tried to leave feedback everyone could ignore then because the feedback wouldnt have come from the address that was used to make the purchase.

2 problems: what happens if two people pay for the good at the same time in the same block. and second what if someone buys something just for the sake of leaving negative feedback to hurt the sellers reputation. there would be no means for the seller to deny certain buyers. for the first problem we may need to ask jl for some tiny modification to the core. for the second i think we can just deal with it. good sellers may not have the same level of rep here that they do on ebay but that would just normalize and everyone would come to think of 90% in our system to be as good as 99% in ebay or w/e. something like that.
As long as we require sellers to post a NXT address and payment terms, then we can verify the buyer who can add a token to his feedback. The seller can give bad feedback to a buyer too, so if a buyer keeps giving false negative feedback, he will soon get a much worse reputation.

I dont think feedback spoofing is a big problem, might not even be a small problem, as you say the system will normalize and we will see what sort of feedback respected members get.

James
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anon136

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Re: 350,000 NXT Bounty - Physical Goods Store - Please Help Spread the Word
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2014, 01:13:21 am »

sellers would just address their transaction containing the arbitrary message back to themselves. the address they sent from would be the address that payments should be addressed to.

hm it would add a lot of complexity to require that buyers get the sellers permission. maybe the ability for sellers to deny certain buyers would have to be something that would just have to be figured out though considering the risk of buyers holding sellers ransom for their reputation.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 07:36:25 am by farl4bit, Reason: Deleted unnecessary direct full-quote »
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Re: 350,000 NXT Bounty - Physical Goods Store - Please Help Spread the Word
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2014, 04:26:43 pm »

I certainly think we could get an additional 150k from unclaimed committee once the project is finished.  I also think guys like Neer and Klee would really like this project's potential and may be willing to donate a little.

Absolutely. We should all contribute. The Physical Goods Store, or Decentralized Anonymous Marketplace as I prefer to name it, is going to be NXT killer app!
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