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Author Topic: Instant Transaction Implementation  (Read 3185 times)

mczarnek

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Instant Transaction Implementation
« on: May 12, 2014, 03:40:31 am »

ChuckOne and I, with the help of mthcl would like to implement Instant Transactions.  ChuckOne and I will be doing the coding but mthcl has been helping us bounce around ideas.  This will be implemented within the core.

This will rely on some changes that will also help with the full implementation of Transparent Forging, such as first implementing a queue for the next 20 forgers in line.

This is the basic idea behind the instant transactions:
https://nxtforum.org/instant-transactions/instant-transaction-proposal-1089/

We would like to ask for a bounty upon a working implementation of Instant Transactions.

Also, note that upon further discussion, unlike that proposal states, we will not need to lock up the coins for X blocks. Transactions will truly be instant.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 10:12:30 pm by mczarnek »
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jl777

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Re: Instant Transaction Implementation
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2014, 03:43:24 am »

NXTcommunityfund will add 100000 NXT to whatever the techdev commmittee approves

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bitcoinpaul

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Re: Instant Transaction Implementation
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2014, 06:21:51 am »

ChuckOne and I, with the help of mthcl would like to implement Instant Transactions.

+10
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mczarnek

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Re: Instant Transaction Implementation
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2014, 12:48:59 pm »

Appreciate it jl777 and bitcoinpaul!

Still waiting to hear more from someone here.  We are working with CfB too who has been providing helpful insight.

I feel like if we can reliably do instant transactions, which seems probably, we'll have something no other crypto has.  They are all saying, well the legal system will have to play a role when it comes to enforcing that you don't walk away without paying your bill.  I thought cryptos were supposed to be more trustless than that?
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anon136

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Re: Instant Transaction Implementation
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2014, 07:27:03 pm »

before we can offer a bounty we need some specs, something akin to a whitepaper that can be peer reviewed.

here is my concern and something to be potentially addressed in the whitepaperish thing. how are we supposed to get consensus on this queue? forgers will have to put this queue in blocks inorder to have consensus, but then that means that they get to decide who is in the queue and who is not, that seems like an attack vector.  if you say something other than forgers will be offering the consensus, than you are are question begging, what ever this alternative method is why dont we just use it for everything, for consensus on what transactions are valid.
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mthcl

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Re: Instant Transaction Implementation
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2014, 03:45:08 pm »

how are we supposed to get consensus on this queue? forgers will have to put this queue in blocks inorder to have consensus, but then that means that they get to decide who is in the queue and who is not, that seems like an attack vector. 
We are discussing exactly this right now...
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mczarnek

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Re: Instant Transaction Implementation
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2014, 08:25:45 pm »

We've got at least one idea for this queue, will write up in a more formal white paper like thing and submit it.  The queue idea will be linked to TF as well.

Thank you.
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anon136

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Re: Instant Transaction Implementation
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2014, 08:38:30 pm »

Myself, l8orre, antanst and abuelau have approved this project for a bounty of 200,000 NXT. The conditions for the release of these funds are:

A) jean luc utilizes your code in the core
B) these changes do infact allow for instant transactions
C) the code doesnt break anything else important in the process
D) a period of time elapses after implementation where no attack vectors are uncovered
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Uniqueorn

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Re: Instant Transaction Implementation
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2014, 09:02:49 pm »

Goodluck, make this happen guys ! :D
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mczarnek

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Re: Instant Transaction Implementation
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2014, 11:13:17 pm »

Appreciate it guys!  And you haven't even read that whitepaper I've been working on yet for you Anon136 :)  I'll send it around one we've fully solidified the methods and optimized this as much as we can.

One thing to run by you guys now, since this instant transaction proposal will require reversing transactions if a double spend is detected (only for transactions that do not implement the instant transactions themselves), this means that all transactions should be instant transactions if they want to be approved within say 30 to 60 blocks of now(can be adjusted), otherwise there is a slight chance a double spender may issue another transaction (which should still be caught 95% of the time) and basically overwrite the first non-instant transaction.

Also instant transactions will be larger and require more bandwidth, specifically if we want to be protected against 51% attack, then it should be signed by approximately at least 17 out of 20 different forgers. It comes down to a probability problem. (Someone with 50% of all Nxt would have a chance once per 2 years to attack this system for one minute at a time.. if this is too often we can add another forger or two and double or quadruple that 2 years)  This means that we'll need to include the signature(64B) and public keys of those forgers (32B), which means we could be potentially including up to 1920 extra bytes.  99.999% of the time these would not actually need to be included into blockchain, only if the double spender colludes with a forger to try to cheat the system or gets away with a race attack (only to have it be reversed anyway).

How serious are these issues?

I'm still doing a little bit of brainstorming to find ways to cut down both of those issues, possibly thinking about one other method, and better ways to do this but I'll do everything in my power to make sure instant transactions happen!

Thank you to jl777 for the NXTcommunityfund contribution too.
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anon136

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Re: Instant Transaction Implementation
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2014, 11:56:55 pm »

I'm scarred. I hope that i will be able to understand your paper. Also i hope that trying to figure it all out doesnt consume my life for like a week.
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mczarnek

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Re: Instant Transaction Implementation
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2014, 01:14:03 am »

No, the basic idea is fairly simple :)

I just started writing it up last night, and I'm still bouncing around ideas with mthcl, may be a little bit until it's ready though.
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mczarnek

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Re: Instant Transaction Implementation
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2014, 05:17:37 am »

Can we figure out some checkpointed approach to payment?  Money is tight and all the bounties are on successful implementation, which means I have to find another job, to fund my development and it is slowing things down.
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bitcoinpaul

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Re: Instant Transaction Implementation
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2014, 07:32:10 am »

We want news!
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: Instant Transaction Implementation
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2014, 08:38:34 am »

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