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gs02xzz

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2014, 11:45:47 pm »

How about doing a Dutch Aution to see how much the community is willing to pay for these 60 million tokens?
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BitcoinForumator

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2014, 12:24:20 am »

I have agree with the "overpriced" sentiment. I was hoping for something more rational.

You're putting all of the risk on the investors, and regardless if the project is succesful or not, you - the founders - will be well of.
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Bitinvestor

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2014, 12:50:14 pm »

100 mln tokens @0.000221btc (~3 NXT) = 300 mln NXT? Seriously? Who would have that kind of money to buy tokens? ;)
Another not so realistic project valuation. While it has great potential, assuming that the demo client worth 200th of Pokerstars is laughable.
Unless I'm mistaken it's not even possible at this point to finish the project without smart contracts or something similar, that doesn't even exist yet.

200th of Pokerstars is not laughable, but NXT would need to be priced much higher before it happens. Either NXT is not ready for funding such large scale projects yet or projects need to start small with less funding and grow with NXT, in fiat market cap, that is.

I have to agree here. You're not going to raise almost 1/3 of all NXT in existence. This project needs downsizing. Start small, grow big.
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jungian

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2014, 01:07:04 pm »

100 mln tokens @0.000221btc (~3 NXT) = 300 mln NXT? Seriously? Who would have that kind of money to buy tokens? ;)
Another not so realistic project valuation. While it has great potential, assuming that the demo client worth 200th of Pokerstars is laughable.
Unless I'm mistaken it's not even possible at this point to finish the project without smart contracts or something similar, that doesn't even exist yet.

200th of Pokerstars is not laughable, but NXT would need to be priced much higher before it happens. Either NXT is not ready for funding such large scale projects yet or projects need to start small with less funding and grow with NXT, in fiat market cap, that is.

I have to agree here. You're not going to raise almost 1/3 of all NXT in existence. This project needs downsizing. Start small, grow big.

I also agree. Come on now.. 1/3 of all NXT. If that were to succeed, it would be no way to ever get ROI measured in NXT.
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mallorcaman

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2014, 07:41:06 am »

Hi am very new around here and have not been a nxt asset holder for that long either, I work for Poker Stars and after reading through all the proposals etc I have to honestly say that allthough a decentralized poker platform of this kind is the future I dont think that the people behind this project have done enough homework most things discussed are not interpreted correctly. The IPO is severely overpriced considering the risk as far as Im concerned. I look forward to reading the next online poker idea for nxt :) Look forward to reading you all again soon

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Sebastien256

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2014, 09:43:43 pm »

I would glady like a dutch auction like for Jinn.
Especially since the ask is very large.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 09:49:33 pm by Sebastien256 »
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Stark Industries

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2014, 10:57:19 pm »

Is there a budget plan for the funds raised from the crowdsale/ICO suppose you sell out the 60 million tokens?

there is a budget here now…as stated earlier, the posted info was incomplete. also the general token availability is adjusted to 55million for free give aways and initial board expansion
budget :https://nxtforum.org/stark-industries-%28nxtdice%29/nxtpoker-dao-budget/
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Stark Industries

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2014, 10:57:58 pm »

100 mln tokens @0.000221btc (~3 NXT) = 300 mln NXT? Seriously? Who would have that kind of money to buy tokens? ;)

the crowdsale is in NXT and BTC…look around you'll find the right info. Also today as per internal discussion the exact boundaries of end set of funds have been edited to have none. check the post for more updated info
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Stark Industries

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2014, 10:59:12 pm »

100 mln tokens @0.000221btc (~3 NXT) = 300 mln NXT? Seriously? Who would have that kind of money to buy tokens? ;)
Another not so realistic project valuation. While it has great potential, assuming that the demo client worth 200th of Pokerstars is laughable.
Unless I'm mistaken it's not even possible at this point to finish the project without smart contracts or something similar, that doesn't even exist yet.

whats laughable is the unsubstantiated complaint, care to provide any professional counter analysis subsequently followed by a valuation. I think it will be more productive to provide one..
the project will be done unless you don't believe smart contracts will be implemented. the dev believes so
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Stark Industries

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2014, 11:00:37 pm »

100 mln tokens @0.000221btc (~3 NXT) = 300 mln NXT? Seriously? Who would have that kind of money to buy tokens? ;)
Another not so realistic project valuation. While it has great potential, assuming that the demo client worth 200th of Pokerstars is laughable.
Unless I'm mistaken it's not even possible at this point to finish the project without smart contracts or something similar, that doesn't even exist yet.

200th of Pokerstars is not laughable, but NXT would need to be priced much higher before it happens. Either NXT is not ready for funding such large scale projects yet or projects need to start small with less funding and grow with NXT, in fiat market cap, that is.


see updated post above...dollar valuation crowdsale in BTC and NXT
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Stark Industries

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2014, 11:01:17 pm »

How about doing a Dutch Aution to see how much the community is willing to pay for these 60 million tokens?

I have neither the time or specific experience to do this, also the nxt client doesn't support it, otherwise it will be a good idea. This project will be built and run by the nxt and greater crypto community token holders, so the more capital to fund rapid development and fund marketing cost the better it will be to achieve our goals to compete in the saturated marketplace
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Stark Industries

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2014, 11:06:16 pm »

I have agree with the "overpriced" sentiment. I was hoping for something more rational.

You're putting all of the risk on the investors, and regardless if the project is succesful or not, you - the founders - will be well of.

This borders on trolling, like i said provide a professional valuation and then we can compare notes, otherwise just ignore the thread…I am sure there are people who have read the proposal in detail to understand the vision.

There is nothing irrational about the price, as a matter of fact it is probably the cheapest price per token entity on the asset exchange.  If you want free tokens put yourself to good use here :   https://nxtforum.org/stark-industries-%28nxtdice%29/marketing-5288/


otherwise do an analysis and compare notes. Also no one is well off, if you understood what was going on you would know that you could benefit from this process without donating a single dime. There are bounties  and token allocations for members who help out in specific ways. see here and here https://nxtforum.org/stark-industries-(nxtdice)/marketing-5288/
Last, very board member, developer , worker, or admin will vest tokens on a monthly basis to align their interests with that of the token holders : see intro to vesting here :  https://nxtforum.org/stark-industries-%28nxtdice%29/spending-policy-and-ground-rules/

note developers are also the only ones paid a salary on a monthly basis. This highly incentivizes the developers but also makes them highly replaceable by the board if outputs are questionable

there is tldr Infographic now since you don't want to read all the info :
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Stark Industries

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2014, 11:07:16 pm »

100 mln tokens @0.000221btc (~3 NXT) = 300 mln NXT? Seriously? Who would have that kind of money to buy tokens? ;)
Another not so realistic project valuation. While it has great potential, assuming that the demo client worth 200th of Pokerstars is laughable.
Unless I'm mistaken it's not even possible at this point to finish the project without smart contracts or something similar, that doesn't even exist yet.

200th of Pokerstars is not laughable, but NXT would need to be priced much higher before it happens. Either NXT is not ready for funding such large scale projects yet or projects need to start small with less funding and grow with NXT, in fiat market cap, that is.

I have to agree here. You're not going to raise almost 1/3 of all NXT in existence. This project needs downsizing. Start small, grow big.


Funds are raised in both BTC and NXT..the lean startup strategy doesn't work in every scenario…We are dealing with an overly competitive market. It is also the best way to incentive a DAO structure and secure incentivized cooperation in which every member of the DAO benefits from improving the organization DAO ( decentralized autonomous organization), and return value to token holders.
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Stark Industries

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2014, 11:08:30 pm »

100 mln tokens @0.000221btc (~3 NXT) = 300 mln NXT? Seriously? Who would have that kind of money to buy tokens? ;)
Another not so realistic project valuation. While it has great potential, assuming that the demo client worth 200th of Pokerstars is laughable.
Unless I'm mistaken it's not even possible at this point to finish the project without smart contracts or something similar, that doesn't even exist yet.

200th of Pokerstars is not laughable, but NXT would need to be priced much higher before it happens. Either NXT is not ready for funding such large scale projects yet or projects need to start small with less funding and grow with NXT, in fiat market cap, that is.

I have to agree here. You're not going to raise almost 1/3 of all NXT in existence. This project needs downsizing. Start small, grow big.

I also agree. Come on now.. 1/3 of all NXT. If that were to succeed, it would be no way to ever get ROI measured in NXT.

funds are raised in BTC and NXT.  The ROI will always be there, it will be reflected by the massively deflated price of NXT read this for clarity :  https://nxtforum.org/stark-industries-(nxtdice)/short-insightful-missive/
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Stark Industries

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2014, 11:09:31 pm »

Hi am very new around here and have not been a nxt asset holder for that long either, I work for Poker Stars and after reading through all the proposals etc I have to honestly say that allthough a decentralized poker platform of this kind is the future I dont think that the people behind this project have done enough homework most things discussed are not interpreted correctly. The IPO is severely overpriced considering the risk as far as Im concerned. I look forward to reading the next online poker idea for nxt :) Look forward to reading you all again soon

There is nothing overpriced about the crowdsale, either provide a professional valuation or just stop trolling. There has been 10 moths of research into the online poker industry coupled with years of experience as poker players for most involved in the project, given the sparse development by dev here and there. So quit your insinuative trolling with your sock puppet account. Also you work for pokerstars? care to provide some credentials?..You might actually be very valuable to the project or are you here simply as a scout ? if the later its, the more reason to get this project structure up and running
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Stark Industries

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2014, 11:11:20 pm »

I would glady like a dutch auction like for Jinn.
Especially since the ask is very large.

I would like that too....but the asset exchange isn't built for that. There also no time to focus on those mechanics manually
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Sebastien256

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2014, 11:13:45 pm »

I would glady like a dutch auction like for Jinn.
Especially since the ask is very large.

I would like that too....but the asset exchange isn't built for that. There also no time to focus on those mechanics manually

Maybe ask help from community, CfB or Triangle may at least tell you the difficulty behind this or pointing the right people to help you. It might not be that difficult to do so after all.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 11:16:01 pm by Sebastien256 »
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Stark Industries

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2014, 11:17:36 pm »

Note.
 leave for a week and come back to a thread filled unsubstantiated complaints… Nevertheless I was paid for this purpose and the project belongs to the token holders
There are a basic few things that should be explicitly cleared up as some people don't read the info yet jump to conclusions on what should be based on knowledge gained in their short time in crypto :

1) The specifications and information were not previously complete, I have updated his thread post and several others with more information. The full plan is still not complete.
 
2) This is a DAO decentralized Autonomous Organisation :
 directed discussions choices or options in the best interest of token holders are provided by board members of specialized experiences related to the Poker industry and market, it then left to token holders to make the right decision through voting. This is only possible because of the NXT platform and features such as phasing, voting and smart contracts for other complicated use cases

3) Funds are secured by at least five of the board members and spending are allowed according to spending policy, budget , and any new initiatives decided by board discussion to token holder voting. Actual spending is enabled through BTC copay and phasing accounts or other nxt features that mimic multisig capabilities. Spending is executed by executor

4) Developers, workers, admins, board members are all paid in tokens which are vested on a month to month basis to ensure the long term success of the project with aligning with the interests of token holders


5)Developers are paid in tokens and in BTC  on a monthly schedule. This is to highly incentivize development, while remaining replaceable and devs will be replaced if dev work output are not up to par as determined by the board discussion and token holder voting. that way Developers are incentivized to output the more value without putting DAO funds at risk if they leave for any reason. The structure of the DAO  enables a highly effective decentralized decision making with centralized replaceable development. You can liken this DAO decision making structure to bitshares DPOS…

6) This is not just a crypto project and cannot be compared to any crypto project. There is already a product market fit which comes about because NxtPoker caters to the ills of the current poker industry. NXT 2.0 platform just happens to make decentralized poker backed by a funded community possible, hence the valuation and comparison to entrenched competitors in legacy denominations.

7) Funds are raised in both BTC and NXT during the crowdsale..there is an external mechanism ola is working on to facilitate accurate documentation

8) The worst price you will pay during the crowd sale is less than 3 NXT in value, during the last week of the crowd sale…look at the posts for more accurate pricing ladder as the time draws near…this makes this crowdsale one of the cheapest per token in the history of NXT crypto crowd sales. This is to achieve a wide distribution and involvement of much of the larger crypto community as possible. The valuation take into account cost to incentivize speedy development, enter and break though completive voice, incentivize DAO structure and incentive Poker players as they consider our value proposition over the networks there are already embedded in.

9) you can become a token holder for free by perfuming simple tasks


Did I mention? I am a temporary  figure head here(to be replaced), paid to get this structure in place and allow for viral growth fueled by the mission and value proposition of the DAO backed by a community of token holders and its funds.

if you are interested in participating you can start reviewing the info here :

Here is a diagram that paints a 1000 words




Please substantiate your criticism, here is a project for your own benefit. The wise ones see the vision already.
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Sebastien256

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2014, 11:23:04 pm »

If not all token are sell during the 30 days. What will you do with them (the one not sell)?

EDIT: Will you burn them to genesis?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 11:28:24 pm by Sebastien256 »
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Stark Industries

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Re: NxtPoker-Crowdsale
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2014, 11:29:20 pm »

I would glady like a dutch auction like for Jinn.
Especially since the ask is very large.

I would like that too....but the asset exchange isn't built for that. There also no time to focus on those mechanics manually

Maybe ask help from community, CfB or Triangle may at least tell you the difficulty behind this or pointing the right people to help you. It might not be that difficult to do so after all.

This is true but there is so much effort behind the current strategy already, that and anonymous early investor who where made to formulated the strategy  to the fundraising and have made decisions based on that. To change this course would likely be a breach in my personal agrrement and would delay the project even more than it is...if someone comes up with a proposal toindependently with escrows, that may be doable..but again I have to talk to contractors
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