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Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
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Brangdon

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2014, 10:01:05 pm »

What is wrong with multiple solutions?
I think that is the only issue here.
It is indeed a deep, philosophical question. It is partly my sense of elegance and economy, not to needlessly multiply entities. I'm not sure if I can explain this aesthetic to someone who doesn't already share it, though. This isn't to say multiple solutions are always wrong; rather that redundancy needs to be justified.

Quote
If you like AT, then use AT. If somebody likes SQL based then they SQL. If someone want to do FSM, they do FSM.
Nobody said you had to do all of them. If one works that is good enough.
Every node that validates transactions has to implement all of them. Everyone who works on Nxt core has to support them all. Everyone who writes a tool that works with blocks; everyone who wants to read a transaction and know what it is doing. Once in, they must be part of the core forever (else historic block-chains can't be verified). I think it's great that Nxt can support multiple solutions, really I do, but I also fear an accumulation of crud and bloat.

(PS I'm off to bed now. It's 11pm in the UK.)
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jl777

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2014, 10:07:32 pm »

What is wrong with multiple solutions?
I think that is the only issue here.
It is indeed a deep, philosophical question. It is partly my sense of elegance and economy, not to needlessly multiply entities. I'm not sure if I can explain this aesthetic to someone who doesn't already share it, though. This isn't to say multiple solutions are always wrong; rather that redundancy needs to be justified.

Quote
If you like AT, then use AT. If somebody likes SQL based then they SQL. If someone want to do FSM, they do FSM.
Nobody said you had to do all of them. If one works that is good enough.
Every node that validates transactions has to implement all of them. Everyone who works on Nxt core has to support them all. Everyone who writes a tool that works with blocks; everyone who wants to read a transaction and know what it is doing. Once in, they must be part of the core forever (else historic block-chains can't be verified). I think it's great that Nxt can support multiple solutions, really I do, but I also fear an accumulation of crud and bloat.

(PS I'm off to bed now. It's 11pm in the UK.)
I have bad news for you if you dont like redundancy.
Blockchain is redundant

Even I dont need to know about every API NXT has, and I think I am one of the more active users of NXT API. NXT is modular so as long as the modules are not depending on each other, then there is no need (though of course desirable) for core devs to know all the details about the other modules. That is why it is called modules, modular.

Anyway, NXT is decentralized and nobody can stop anybody from developing additions. The way I understand it, a new tx-type gets its own handler and it lives in its own universe. Granted each tx will use a bit of CPU on all the nodes, but so far the CPU usage is minimal and moore's law should be able to keep the percentage used to the current type of level

So dont worry that NXT will get too many languages
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ChuckOne

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2014, 10:10:02 pm »

I agree with jl777 that multiple solutions should not be a problem.
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colin012

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2014, 10:15:24 pm »

I would like to see an open source creation of multiple decentralized governments through this that people can (or cannot) use to protect themselves. I know most of us don't like government because we think it is corrupt, that is why multiple, decentralized governments are important. If someone can pick and choose which government they belong to without the hassle of moving, there is more competition for citizens and businesses. A decentralized government does not do what it is supposed to do (and that is help/protect people without too much restrictions on their freedom) it will not see success because no citizens will join it and if it begins to fail, people will leave it. This, I think, is a good balance of power that gives people liberty and protection. They can choose a more restrictive government for added protection if they want, but they are always free to leave.

More on this idea here:

https://nxtforum.org/judgement-system/decentralized-governments-built-on-nxt/
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lucky331

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2014, 10:51:55 pm »

Amir Taaki, creator of DarkWallet said the same: 

"Starting with the basics like Dark Wallet, he has grand ideas about how society could benefit from these tools. He gave the example of the Cooperativa Integral Catalana (CIC), which he described as a “start-up government” that wants to provide basic services to its citizens and manage resources in a more efficient, democratic way than the state."

source:  http://motherboard.vice.com/en_uk/read/the-dark-wallet-developers-plan-for-startup-governments-run-on-bitcoin
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colin012

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2014, 05:48:47 pm »

Amir Taaki, creator of DarkWallet said the same: 

"Starting with the basics like Dark Wallet, he has grand ideas about how society could benefit from these tools. He gave the example of the Cooperativa Integral Catalana (CIC), which he described as a “start-up government” that wants to provide basic services to its citizens and manage resources in a more efficient, democratic way than the state."

source:  http://motherboard.vice.com/en_uk/read/the-dark-wallet-developers-plan-for-startup-governments-run-on-bitcoin

I have been thinking about it for a while. I would like to see a system that integrates multiple cryptocoins, smart contracts, and can relate with other governments on the same platform. I think it would be do able based on the NXT source code.
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lucky331

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2014, 11:05:00 pm »

ideas that keep coming back and can't get rid off your head usually becomes a reality when you act on it. 
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lucky331

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2014, 12:26:29 am »

ripple labs just posted their implementation of smart contracts:  http://codius.org

i think the nxt devs could get a thing or two from their ideas.
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2014, 07:02:57 am »

ripple labs just posted their implementation of smart contracts:  http://codius.org

i think the nxt devs could get a thing or two from their ideas.

This part sounds too fantastic to be true:
Quote
Can interact with anything connected to the Internet
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jl777

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2014, 07:04:51 am »

ripple labs just posted their implementation of smart contracts:  http://codius.org

i think the nxt devs could get a thing or two from their ideas.

This part sounds too fantastic to be true:
Quote
Can interact with anything connected to the Internet
maybe they mean you can use a URL?
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2014, 07:08:57 am »

maybe they mean you can use a URL?

There is a reason why blockchains can't interact with URLs on the Internet. Ripple doesn't have a blockchain, so it can do a lot of things that r not available for decentralized systems.
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lucky331

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2014, 07:53:48 am »

this part is good:

Quote
Bridges between value networks.

Distributed networks like Bitcoin and Ripple maintain separate ledgers or blockchains that track accounts and balances. Traditional financial systems have their own ledgers as well. Contracts built on smart oracles can create automatic and fully trustworthy bridges between disparate systems. Such a bridge could accept payments in one system and immediately issue a balance or initiate a payment in another.

https://ripple.com/blog/smart-oracles-building-business-logic-with-smart-contracts/

hopefully a bridge for Nxt and Ripple. 
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2014, 08:10:19 am »

this part is good:

Quote
Bridges between value networks.

Distributed networks like Bitcoin and Ripple maintain separate ledgers or blockchains that track accounts and balances. Traditional financial systems have their own ledgers as well. Contracts built on smart oracles can create automatic and fully trustworthy bridges between disparate systems. Such a bridge could accept payments in one system and immediately issue a balance or initiate a payment in another.

https://ripple.com/blog/smart-oracles-building-business-logic-with-smart-contracts/

hopefully a bridge for Nxt and Ripple.

This part is not good, it's funny. The author clearly doesn't understand differences between distributed and decentralized. If these r words of the dev team then u'd better be ready to sell ripples.
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devphp

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2014, 08:20:58 am »

There is no blockchain in Ripple? Interesting. Do they just have a centralized database to store all txs?
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lucky331

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2014, 08:33:18 am »

this part is good:

Quote
Bridges between value networks.

Distributed networks like Bitcoin and Ripple maintain separate ledgers or blockchains that track accounts and balances. Traditional financial systems have their own ledgers as well. Contracts built on smart oracles can create automatic and fully trustworthy bridges between disparate systems. Such a bridge could accept payments in one system and immediately issue a balance or initiate a payment in another.

https://ripple.com/blog/smart-oracles-building-business-logic-with-smart-contracts/

hopefully a bridge for Nxt and Ripple.

This part is not good, it's funny. The author clearly doesn't understand differences between distributed and decentralized. If these r words of the dev team then u'd better be ready to sell ripples.

the writer is a blogger and not a dev from ripple labs. 

anyway, just posted ripple labs' smart contract idea to hopefully get ideas from them and hopefully it can help spawn more ideas from the nxt devs, making the nxt platform better. 
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lucky331

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #55 on: July 17, 2014, 08:39:27 am »

There is no blockchain in Ripple? Interesting. Do they just have a centralized database to store all txs?

https://ripple.com/ripple_primer.pdf

go to the part, "ripple: how it works"

as for more technical details i think you can find them in the ripple wiki:  https://ripple.com/wiki/
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allwelder

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #56 on: July 17, 2014, 11:44:39 am »

this part is good:

Quote
Bridges between value networks.

Distributed networks like Bitcoin and Ripple maintain separate ledgers or blockchains that track accounts and balances. Traditional financial systems have their own ledgers as well. Contracts built on smart oracles can create automatic and fully trustworthy bridges between disparate systems. Such a bridge could accept payments in one system and immediately issue a balance or initiate a payment in another.

https://ripple.com/blog/smart-oracles-building-business-logic-with-smart-contracts/

hopefully a bridge for Nxt and Ripple.

This part is not good, it's funny. The author clearly doesn't understand differences between distributed and decentralized. If these r words of the dev team then u'd better be ready to sell ripples.
distributed is much efficient than decentralized,right?
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #57 on: July 17, 2014, 11:50:54 am »

distributed is much efficient than decentralized,right?

Yes.
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lucky331

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2014, 11:53:43 am »

i, personally, prefer not to compare the two.  one good thing about both of them is there is no central operator.  Nxt and Ripple are both awesome projects and it would be best to have bridges at community level and the dev/code level between them.   
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allwelder

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2014, 12:02:04 pm »

distributed is much efficient than decentralized,right?

Yes.
TF is decentralized when fully implemented?
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