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Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
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Come-from-Beyond

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Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« on: July 14, 2014, 10:28:35 am »

There is a work being done in parallel with Monetary System, it's development of sophisticated dividend payment schemes in Nxt core. I already have a task set by a real-world business, but I need more tasks to analyse them and find common patterns.

I'm planning to implement dividends by using Smart Contracts. If you are going to use Nxt in your business, please, share how you'd like to exploit Smart Contracts.

PS: The idea of Smart Contracts is explained here - http://szabo.best.vwh.net/smart_contracts_idea.html. BCNext wanted to write SCs in a functional language, I'm thinking of making this language similar to SQL SELECT statement.
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jl777

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2014, 10:40:00 am »

There is a work being done in parallel with Monetary System, it's development of sophisticated dividend payment schemes in Nxt core. I already have a task set by a real-world business, but I need more tasks to analyse them and find common patterns.

I'm planning to implement dividends by using Smart Contracts. If you are going to use Nxt in your business, please, share how you'd like to exploit Smart Contracts.

PS: The idea of Smart Contracts is explained here - http://szabo.best.vwh.net/smart_contracts_idea.html. BCNext wanted to write SCs in a functional language, I'm thinking of making this language similar to SQL SELECT statement.
Are you trying to kill etherium before it is even born?
:)

I remember seeing some organization that had ~20 standard contracts, cant remember the exact URL

For my uses, I need to be able to dividend out assets, not just NXT.

Also, I would like to be able to transact off-blockchain with signed tx that is a payment guarantee, like a cashier's check. You dont have to worry about there not being enough funds (other than actual bank failure in this case the equivalent would be total NXT failure) The current referenced transaction just has all the issues that I am sure you are aware of. So if I can create a binding trade directly knowing that it will be cleared by the blockchain at some point, then the two parties an operate as if the trade is already done, which in a sense it has been after the exchange of the signed txbytes

I am sure I can come up with a lot more use cases if you need.

James
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ThomasVeil

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2014, 11:04:30 am »

I'm not an issuer yet, so can only talk from observation, on something that other assets would benefit from and for an asset idea I'm pondering about: I think it would be helpful to be able to track in a simple way how long someone has held an asset. Generally to reward early investors, and long time hodlers. As in paying more the longer held, or give certain rewards only after 1 month, so as to prevent that people just buy -> collect -> sell. The dividends could also be just a message with a serial number or so for collecting digital items.
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josephliton

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2014, 11:11:06 am »

There is a work being done in parallel with Monetary System, it's development of sophisticated dividend payment schemes in Nxt core. I already have a task set by a real-world business, but I need more tasks to analyse them and find common patterns.

I'm planning to implement dividends by using Smart Contracts. If you are going to use Nxt in your business, please, share how you'd like to exploit Smart Contracts.

PS: The idea of Smart Contracts is explained here - http://szabo.best.vwh.net/smart_contracts_idea.html. BCNext wanted to write SCs in a functional language, I'm thinking of making this language similar to SQL SELECT statement.

What I have understood from wiki:

Smart contracts are computer protocols that facilitate, verify, or enforce the negotiation or performance of a contract, or that obviate the need for a contractual clause. Smart contracts usually also have a user interface and often emulate the logic of contractual clauses. Proponents of smart contracts claim that many kinds of contractual clauses may thus be made partially or fully self-executing, self-enforcing, or both. Smart contracts aim to provide security superior to traditional contract law and to reduce other transaction costs associated with contracting.
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TheCryptoWoman

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2014, 11:12:34 am »

There is a work being done in parallel with Monetary System, it's development of sophisticated dividend payment schemes in Nxt core. I already have a task set by a real-world business, but I need more tasks to analyse them and find common patterns.

I'm planning to implement dividends by using Smart Contracts. If you are going to use Nxt in your business, please, share how you'd like to exploit Smart Contracts.

PS: The idea of Smart Contracts is explained here - http://szabo.best.vwh.net/smart_contracts_idea.html. BCNext wanted to write SCs in a functional language, I'm thinking of making this language similar to SQL SELECT statement.

My dream for the use of Smart Contracts is that they will one day be used in third world and emerging economies to legitimize property ownership so people can leverage their real world assets for growth. So my wish would be a system that would be simple enough for the end user to use in this context.

This might be a more idealistic answer than you wanted, but often a stated goal helps determine the path.
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jl777

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2014, 11:15:31 am »

There is a work being done in parallel with Monetary System, it's development of sophisticated dividend payment schemes in Nxt core. I already have a task set by a real-world business, but I need more tasks to analyse them and find common patterns.

I'm planning to implement dividends by using Smart Contracts. If you are going to use Nxt in your business, please, share how you'd like to exploit Smart Contracts.

PS: The idea of Smart Contracts is explained here - http://szabo.best.vwh.net/smart_contracts_idea.html. BCNext wanted to write SCs in a functional language, I'm thinking of making this language similar to SQL SELECT statement.
Can smart contracts do the "magic" referred to in https://nxtforum.org/nxtservices-releases/how-to-test-multigateway-with-nxtservices-a-test-user-guide/msg64496/#msg64496
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2014, 11:19:27 am »

Can smart contracts do the "magic" referred to in https://nxtforum.org/nxtservices-releases/how-to-test-multigateway-with-nxtservices-a-test-user-guide/msg64496/#msg64496

I don't get what "magic" u mean. Multigateway to Bitcoin becomes trivial with SCs, does this answer ur question?
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lucky331

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2014, 11:24:17 am »

some ideas here in this interview:

Quote
Are there new features still in the works?

Yeah. One of the things we’re excited about, besides the payment system itself, is this scripting language we’re building that will be a way to execute code on Ripple’s distributed network—it’s pretty innovative.

What’s an example of that?

We can’t imagine all the possibilities, but one example of what is possible is an automated decentralized subscription payment system. Or you could write a script so that a Ripple account must receive a certain amount of money in a set amount of time or the money will automatically return to its holders—similar to what Kickstarter does, but without needing a company to oversee everything. Ripple replaces a lot of trust-based systems with code-based systems.

https://ripple.com/blog/interview-with-jed-mccaleb-inventor-of-the-ripple-protocol-and-co-founder-of-opencoin/
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jl777

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2014, 11:26:36 am »

Can smart contracts do the "magic" referred to in https://nxtforum.org/nxtservices-releases/how-to-test-multigateway-with-nxtservices-a-test-user-guide/msg64496/#msg64496

I don't get what "magic" u mean. Multigateway to Bitcoin becomes trivial with SCs, does this answer ur question?
no
the link is about pNXT, which is a cryptonote fork
I want to enforce a 1:1 pNXT to NXT price peg both ways
So, someone can do a privateSend of NXT -> <any pNXTd server> converts to pNXT -> dest pNXT via cryptonote network -> NXT

the problem is how to secure the NXT and to make it available on the receiving end. We cant very well send the NXT via NXT blockchain as that defeats the whole point of using cryptonote protocol for the transfer.

I guess the magic needed is if we could somehow make the pNXT like a MS coin, except it comes into existence when the NXT is sent in, it somehow gets the NXT in a magic code that it can take along with its cryptonote tx and then on the other side the magic code is used to recreate the NXT as the pNXT is converted back to NXT.

James

P.S. Can you explain more how "Multigateway to Bitcoin becomes trivial with SCs" works? Maybe if I understood it a bit better I can think of better magic questions
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2014, 11:56:43 am »

P.S. Can you explain more how "Multigateway to Bitcoin becomes trivial with SCs" works? Maybe if I understood it a bit better I can think of better magic questions

1. Alice and Bob agree that Alice pays 10 NXT for 1 BTC of Bob
2. Alice creates a SC and deposits 10 NXT to an account controlled by it (noone else can control the account)
3. Once Bob pays 1 BTC he sends a transaction to this SC, the transaction contains the block with Bob's 1 BTC and headers of N previous Bitcoin blocks
4. SC makes sure that 1 BTC was indeed transferred to Alice's address, it also checks Proof-of-Work, and sends 10 NXT to Bob's account
5. If too much time passed and Bob didn't pay 1 BTC then SC sends 10 NXT back to Alice

NB: N previous blocks can be any number, even 0 if amount paid by Bob is not very big. The scheme above won't work for non-PoW currencies.
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jl777

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2014, 12:01:26 pm »

P.S. Can you explain more how "Multigateway to Bitcoin becomes trivial with SCs" works? Maybe if I understood it a bit better I can think of better magic questions

1. Alice and Bob agrees that Alice pays 10 NXT for 1 BTC of Bob
2. Alice creates a SC and deposits 10 NXT to an account controlled by it (noone else can control the account)
3. Once Bob pays 1 BTC he sends a transaction to this SC, the transaction contains the block with Bob's 1 BTC and headers of N previous Bitcoin blocks
4. SC makes sure that 1 BTC was indeed transferred to Alice's address, it also checks Proof-of-Work, and sends 10 NXT to Bob's account
5. If too much time passed and Bob didn't pay 1 BTC then SC sends 10 NXT back to Alice

NB: N previous blocks can be any number, even 0 if amount paid by Bob is not very big. The scheme above won't work for non-PoW currencies.
this sure sounds like atomic exchange of BTC <-> NXT!
cool trick of avoiding having to actually load the bitcoin blockchain, but still being able to verify the "blockchain"!

any chance of supporting PoW other than SHA256? If cryptonote PoW can be supported, then maybe this can also be the magic needed for the pNXT:NXT issue. I just cant figure out how to teleport the NXT using the cryptonote network.
maybe a "pay to hash" equivalent would allow this? Can SC be used to bind the NXT until the first person with the X that produces SHA256(x)? Then the knowledge of X is effectively the NXT. Granted doublespend is an issue, but in a closed system this could work
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Brangdon

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2014, 12:02:09 pm »

BCNext wanted to write SCs in a functional language, I'm thinking of making this language similar to SQL SELECT statement.
How do Smart Contracts relate to Automated Transactions? Should they at least use similar languages, to reduce the burden on people who must know both (eg, core maintainers)?

I think a way to make regular automated payments is important, but I have no idea whether it counts as a Smart Contract or an Automated Transaction or some other thing. It's important enough that it should probably be done efficiently in the core, rather than with AT. A subscription model would allow a lot of web applications, especially if could support micro-payments. It would really encourage take-up by merchants, as I don't think other crypto-currencies do it yet.
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jl777

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2014, 12:04:11 pm »

@CfB
offtopic question, does AE fill orders on the basis of first placed at given price gets priority?
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2014, 12:10:53 pm »

any chance of supporting PoW other than SHA256?

Yes, but someone have to implement such functions.
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semibaron

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2014, 12:11:20 pm »

SC ==AT ?

Where are the differences and why develop 2 ethereum like features instead of joining forces together?
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2014, 12:11:54 pm »

How do Smart Contracts relate to Automated Transactions? Should they at least use similar languages, to reduce the burden on people who must know both (eg, core maintainers)?

SC <> AT.
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2014, 12:12:25 pm »

@CfB
offtopic question, does AE fill orders on the basis of first placed at given price gets priority?

Yes.
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semibaron

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2014, 12:16:54 pm »

How do Smart Contracts relate to Automated Transactions? Should they at least use similar languages, to reduce the burden on people who must know both (eg, core maintainers)?

SC <> AT.

What does <> stand for?  :P
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2014, 12:28:05 pm »

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cc001

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Re: Express your wish (Smart Contracts)
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2014, 12:29:20 pm »

How do Smart Contracts relate to Automated Transactions? Should they at least use similar languages, to reduce the burden on people who must know both (eg, core maintainers)?

SC <> AT.

What does <> stand for?  :P

<> == !=  :P
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