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Messages - LocoMB

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Core Development Discussion / Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« on: February 19, 2016, 07:26:55 pm »
what you guys don't understand is that by throwing such fatal changes out there on a whim primarily destroys the most important thing such a platform needs, and that is TRUST in the stability.

Who is expecting any sane business venture to issue an asset on the AE while this trainwreck looms?
I guarantee you, there will not be a single serious asset issued on the Asset Exchange as long as this insanity is not dead and buried.

splitting NXT creates untold number of possibilities that we can see
and another untold amount that will only be obvious after it happens

mark my words, and if you don't, I will be there to do rub it in!

Core Development Discussion / Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« on: February 19, 2016, 06:32:12 pm »
The more I have studied the more I have a concern about this issue - once Fnxt is created Nxt is relegated to "Child Chain Status." THINK about that for a moment. NXT is no longer a MAIN CHAIN coin/token.

We are devaluing Nxt, if not in real world terms, at the very least in perception. And perception = reality.

This is indeed only a matter of perception, and will be fixed by using a different terminology.

no it will not be fixed. how do you plan to enforce such perceptional changes? you won't.
but what you are saying there is that you just want to make investors and users make see it different? what is more shocking, that you apparently have no idea what that means.

So the argument is:
if they have such concerns that will not be a problem, we just whirl a word cloud of technobabble around and then they will understand?

and with what exaxctly?

The fNXT chain should be called "forging, limited functionality, basic, low-level, underlying, platform chain". The NXT chain should be called "main, transactional, full-featured, high-level chain". The other child chains should be called "additional, sibling, alternative chains". Even though internally they will share the exact same code as the main (i.e. the NXT) chain. If we move away from that mother/child terminology, there should be no such confusion.
seriously? you believe anyone to be bamboozled by such GOBBLEDIGOOK?
that is seriously delusional thinkning.

Core Development Discussion / Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« on: February 19, 2016, 06:16:50 pm »
nobody will care at all about NXT, because everybody wants to have fNXT.
We just had a discussion in this thread that the value of fNXT will drop a lot, and it will be insecure to have a high-value NXT chain on top of it. So which is it, is fNXT going to go up or down after all? Who knows the answer?

do you? because if not, then you have no idea what you are doing!

Core Development Discussion / Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« on: February 19, 2016, 06:15:52 pm »
because there are 1,000,000,000 fNXT on top of 1,000,000,000 NXT already in existence.
and fNXT is the one that generates revenue, not NXT.

so fNXT will be traded on exchanges, in large batches if the TX fee is 100

Core Development Discussion / Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« on: February 19, 2016, 06:10:40 pm »
this will destroy the value of the assets. that is an absolute no-go.
How come? This is fundamental, we can't have trading assets against fNXT as transactions that change fNXT balances can't be pruned.

because fNXT will be traded on BTC38 and other exchanges, and NXT will be marginalized, hence the assets have been devalued.
it is like denominating the price of stocks suddenly in turkish Lira instead of USD- but without changing the number - hence: $100 today - 100TRK tomorrow

to be more precise: nobody will care at all about NXT, because everybody wants to have fNXT.
which spells doom for the asset exchange, becasue no sane person will entrust their IPO to such a platform where they don't know if their assets won't be burnt tomorrow

Core Development Discussion / Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« on: February 19, 2016, 06:01:39 pm »
Will assets be tradable in fNXT, or in NXT?
In NXT, if issued on the NXT child chain. Or in any other child chain token, provided the asset issuer or that child chain does not prohibit it. Assets will exist globally, so in theory could be traded on any child chain, but it is likely that some asset issuers or child chain creators will want restrictions on trading, we would need to allow for that.

The only holding that should be tradable against fNXT directly are the native child chain currencies, such as NXT itself.

this will destroy the value of the assets. that is an absolute no-go.

Core Development Discussion / Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« on: February 19, 2016, 05:25:34 pm »
so what exactly does all that mean for assets?
I think this is an extremely important question that must be addressed.

Will assets be tradable in fNXT, or in NXT?
Thank you.

Core Development Discussion / Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« on: February 19, 2016, 11:31:04 am »
I have a feeling that the core developers honestly have a vision that is not related to making money, but to make a great decentralized platform.
But if that is is the case, and no agreement is found with big investors in nxt1.x, why not create a new chain for the nxt2.0 and maintain the current one improving the existing functionalities and keeping an eye on backwards compatibility?
It could be backed up by a nxt1.x asset and distribution of that would determine the initial distribution for nxt2.0.
In that way nxt2.0 will be future oriented and nxt1.x will be the one that people can be sure will not change too much except for improvements of the current implementation.
I would prefer 1 NXT with a wide consensus on how to go forward.

yes, if you are a java dev you can do that, no one is stopping you...

But why don't you wait for Nxt 2.0 to launch your blockchain on Nxt? Does not that sound ironic?

Because NXT2.0 is supposed to not happen for at least a YEAR?

Core Development Discussion / Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« on: February 19, 2016, 06:54:51 am »
Hard coded fees are serious nonsense anyway. I proposed quite a while back to adjust the fees to a real world, non-inflatable utility, like a scaled basket of several surface mail costs - where *physical* activites actually take place like *physically* moving an envelope over *physical* distances.
Or electricty costs, or even bitcoin mining costs, because those include a basket of electricity costs.
A process that cannot be spoofed, something that is not pulled out of thin air!

But simply hardcoding fees is as stupid as having the price of bread fixed in a central bureau of prices- and we all know what that leads to. And how often does any sage have to adjust them in order to make it work?
In any case, this discussion is very harmful to NXT, and there are plenty of non-disruptive changes and amendments to the NXT platform to increase adoption.

Increasing adoption? Who is going to build a project on a platform that is in LIMBO for at least a year, because the rules are totally unclear?

Golly Gee, I wonder how much adoption we will see until NXT2.0 is out?
And how long after that until any projects feel secure enough that it is viable and stable? And for the predominantly technologically minded people, I should emphasize: ECONOMICALLY viable and stable?

So- putting myself into the shoes of a potential project manager seeking a platform:
'NXT may be a nice platform, but I have no idea what it will be like in 15 months from now and I can't jeopardise my project so I'll wait until then... or go somewhere else, becasue there are other similar platforms around where the conditions are a bit more clear'

Core Development Discussion / Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« on: February 18, 2016, 09:16:43 pm »
I agree, if you ask 'what is the biggest problem nxt has today?' it is adoption. The amount of transactions is only 2000 per day :( Many of the new features (like shuffling, MS) need much more work to get user friendly enough to reach adoption.

Scalability is not our problem today. Finding new users is our challenge.


and that is not going to happen with just doubling the supply!

Ultimately, fNXT == NXT because forgers must sell the fNXT somehow - so fNXT will hit the exchanges NXT, == DILUTION

correct my if I am wrong- maybe there is a built in mechanism to prevent fNXT from being traded? but that would be kind of silly and centralized, no?

so what i the difference again? fNXT is the forging token, but not the currency, and NXT is the currency, but not the forging token, but the forging token somehow has to be convertible into a currency- which makes it - what exactly? A currency?
How can I trade in my fNXT? Something to do with the sidechains?

And which business is going to rely on such a nebulous model? Adoption? Yes we'll see how that's gonna work out!

By raising fees fNXT-forgers can always suck out value from child chains until security reaches a reasonable level.

sounds like a good dynamical argument...

Maybe this is the right place to ask:

If fNXT is the token that is used for forging (i.e. is the reqard token that forgers receive), and it is not be used for anything else, because anything else is what NXT is supposed to be used for:

How then is the route for forgers to monetize their fNXT?
Surely, there must be such a route, because forgers have to pay their bills somehow, and a reward that is not exchangeble is not a reward at all, and esp. can the forgers not pay their bills with such a non-exchangable thing!

This seems to be quite the bottleneck.

I am sorry for not reading hte whole intial thread- but maybe this can be compiled in a sort of FAQ re. this topic?
As I see it, there already is an fNXT, and it is called 'NXT'.
And BCNXTs original vision was exactly that: using NXT as a network participation reward token, and Monetar System for all else.

So why not: create an NXT MS coin, and use that henceforth as currency, and keep NXT as NXT to forge.

Ultimately, the objective seems to be to decouple the currently dual function of NXT as currency and NXT as forging reward.
I am fairly sure that this is possible without forced redistributoin and without re-evaluation.

Or better- if re-evaluation, then on even terms such that the relative stakes of all participants do not change.
Was this discussed already?


Core Development Discussion / Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« on: February 12, 2016, 12:10:12 pm »
The so-called 'split' of NXT into fNXT and NXT is proving most controversial. Is there no way of securing child chains on the current Nxt chain whilst enabling scalability?

I believe so.

on the other hand- I seem to remember that it was BCNEXTs original vision that the NXT be used solely as a token to stabilize the network, not as a coin in itself, and all else should be run as an MS coin

so NXT should be fNXT, meaning there already ‚Äčis fNXT, and it is called 'NXT'
certainly a hardfork is needed to get to a 2.0 level thing but there is no technical reason at all to split NXT

But a very fundamental reason to not split Nxt, and that is called 'forced reallocation is a no-go'

But maybe I am simply not understanding it correctly, and it does not equate to 'forced reallocation'?

Nxt Projects / Re: [NXT3D] The NXT Community 3D Virtual World
« on: February 12, 2016, 06:36:32 am »
I agree with you on the uncertainty part, and I would also advise on option 2 or 3.
on the other hand, this is a very early brainstorming phase for Nxt, and Nxt2.0 is not going to happen for another year.

So if you go with Nxt1.7.5 now, I believe that you will still have the option (meaning: lots of time for adequate preparation) to make a clone of Nxt 1.7.5 and continue with that if  it turns out that Nxt2.0 will not be usable for the Metaverse.

I believe that you do not need to decide NOW, but that you will actually have the luxury of choice to either go with the clone variant or upgrade to Nxt2.0 if you are convinced that it is viable for the use case.

So in fact, you have options 2 AND 3 rolled in one, conditional on what is more suitable- I think that is a fairly convenient situation!

Nxt Improvement Proposals / Re: Full exchange modularity
« on: February 12, 2016, 06:28:22 am »

in light of all the discussions about far away and fundamental changes to Nxt2.0, I would very much like to keep this topic alive.

this seems like a rather small change to me considering what else is discussed, but something that is sourly needed in order to vitalize the asset exchange and the utility of it as a crowdfunding platform.

would it not be worth it to put some work into it in order to gain some more activity soon, and not a year or longer from now?

what if some organisations were interested and prepared in making use of the AE if they were given the opportunity with such a direct trading mechanism?

can Nxt afford to not offer such a use case?

I think not.

What do the devs think about this?

a very good and solid step in the right direction!

THIS is exactly what distinguishes NXT from corporate orgs like Etherium, Ripple, Blockstream and all those other VC driven constructs!

Core Development Discussion / Re: Nxt 2.0 design
« on: February 09, 2016, 05:04:37 pm »
I do get the feeling that some people have not read the OP, so here it is again, just in case :
My take on JLP's proposal is that this architecture could solve the issue of blockchain scalability. If so, then NXT will have solved one of the biggest issues with creating a sustainable financial eco-system on the blockchain, something that BTC (for example  ;D)  will probably never solve.

Good Point!
So please do not get hysterical, these are proposals for discussion and discourse!
Of course we all know that Backwards Compatibility is an essential feature of any reliable API,
thus there should not be anything to worry about in that respect.

Nxt Projects / Re: [NXT3D] The NXT Community 3D Virtual World
« on: February 07, 2016, 06:28:22 pm »

I am in sandbox plaza now! If I am in wrong place, please send me a hint where to go to!

by the way: my avatar looks all patchy- do I need to apply moth powder or so?

Nxt Projects / Re: [NXT3D] The NXT Community 3D Virtual World
« on: February 06, 2016, 06:08:26 pm »
Hi again  :D
just to confirm that with the actual funds and rate we have the server price without windows for 1 year + domain price...  :D if there are no objections or claims i will launch the operations when the server will be available:

Thank you all and @++

Hi! When will the next sandbox meeting take place? I would like to join!

I was a bit confused because I thought I had missed how to join the NXT grid instance- until I realized that it is not quite up and running yet. But this is the way to go forward, and I do not see it that negative that someone else is working on some currency solution for the hypergrid. It just shows that there is a genuine use for it.

Currency is our strong point, and while the guys who implement that other thing may have the advantage that they originate from the virtual worlds/2ndLife, NXT has the advantage of being a real currency.

So I do not believe that this card is burned at all- let's see what happens!

Update: I just popped by in the sandbox- and well, it is still there!


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