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Messages - Kora

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1
ORA / Re: [ANN] ORA :: NXT 'monetary system' currency
« on: June 04, 2016, 07:10:17 am »
Thx for your response kora.

Hey atchoum6760, thanks for hangin' in there and following, much appreciated!!

Just a quick note to say how incredibly impressed I am with Jean-Luc's recently released roadmap for NXT 2.0.

It's a very well thought out plan, and after all the community has experienced, I'm sure the execution of the plan as outlined will show just how much we've learnt along this journey. The future for NXT is strong with this plan!

The good news for ORA is MS currencies make it onto the 2.0 'Ark' by default (unlike assets), so a BIG thank you to the dev team for that decision. It gives ORA more time to grow and evolve (slowly, as ever), so I'm really energised to imagine what might become of ORA still in the future.


Quote
MS Currencies
MS Currencies themselves are also universal, and will be possible to trade on any Child Chain. MS Currency names and codes existing in Nxt 1.0 WILL be ported to the FNX Child Chain, including the currency balances for all accounts. Their transaction history will not be.
The Core Team will provide support to any MS currencies that want to transition to a Child Chain, i.e. start a Child Chain with a token distribution based on this MS currency.
MS Currency names and codes will be unique within Child Chains only. This will eliminate the possibility of name squatting across chains. The proposed format for MS Currency names will be CURRENCYNAMECODE.CHILDCHAINCODE, for instance ELEMS.FNX.



I also think the distribution plan is just what we need, it's fair, and that 50% FNX for ongoing dev funding should help overcome some of the problems we've had since NXT launched in Nov 2013. I'm pumped for the future!

Quote
Distribution:

FXT (Main Chain Tokens)
All NXT holders are eligible to receive FXT Tokens at launch of the Mainnet.
Shortly after the release of Nxt 1.9, (intended to be the last major release on the Nxt 1.0 branch) the Nxt Software will start taking periodic snapshots of all users' NXT balances, at regular intervals (most likely once an hour), for a period of three months.
The NXT balances in each account will be averaged over this full three month period, and at the end all accounts will be automatically credited with a token representing their FXT holdings, issued as an Asset on the Nxt asset exchange.
This FXT Asset will be freely tradeable.
The distribution of the real FXT coins ( to be done at the launch of the Nxt 2.0 Mainnet in Q3 2017) will be based on the ownership of FXT Assets on the 1.9 blockchain, taken at the point of time when the 2.0 Genesis block is created, shortly before that launch.

FNX (Transaction Tokens for the FNX Child Chain)
The distribution of the FNX Token will be based on each account’s NXT holdings at the time of the Nxt 2.0 Genesis block creation.
At the time of writing, the Core Devs have decided to credit 50% of these holdings to each new FNX Account, while reserving 50% of FNX for funding of the development team, business development and other operations that will need funding to make the Nxt 2.0 project a success.
The Core Devs acknowledge that not including this step in the distribution of 2013 was a mistake in the first place, which has left the project chronically underfunded. As a donation based model is not sustainable, they decided to opt for the allocation of 50% for project development and sustainability.

2
ORA / Re: [ANN] ORA :: NXT 'monetary system' currency
« on: May 12, 2016, 03:39:52 am »
Hey guys
Unfortunately things haven't changed much for ORA since my last major update. I'm still here and available to work with other interested pople, but the project looks to be basically stalled until things for crypto & the NXT ecosystem are much more vibrant than they appear to be now. We need to know how NXT 2.0 develops and is received by the crypto community. I feel 2.0 will be a positive change, but right now there is extreme uncertainty with some major players moving to new platforms. I do have confidence in Jean-Luc and riker, their vision for NXT is very exciting!

As I've mentioned before, I intended to play the roll of the 'catalyst' who starts the project off and then hovers on the sidelines injecting stimulus and support when needed to get things continually moving forward. I know I ultimately failed at that (so far), but it wasn't for a lack of trying. I still haven't totally given up, and if NXT3D evolves into something cool then that's a likely place for an interesting roadmap to evolve & develop from for ORA, but I know working on my own isn't going to make much happen. I'm not a tech guy myself, and I don't have resources to pay any bounties now, so I'm basically in hibernation, waiting to see what happens and who gets inspired to suggest ideas etc. When the 2.0 dust settles I think NXT ecosystem will attract many new people, and some may get interested to help ORA in some way.

In retrospect I can feel how negatively the collapse of the 'shuffle' idea and the disappearance of Dark Horse that preceded the formation of that idea really effected me. The prior disappearance of our original dev nio, and the delays, uncertainty, and bad vibes surrounding that ordeal had already dented my confidence, and to be honest, the ORA experiment to date has personally been very frustrating and disappointing in many regards. Sorry to sound negative, but so far ORA has been a complete failure in most regards, even though many ideas were really quite cool and had merit.

The original distribution Mac Red designed was great - fair, efficient & transparent.
The site frag designed for a our crypto short film festival was awesome, and the idea of promoting crypto with short videos seems so obvious I still don't know why it didn't get much support. We had prizes and all!
Some of our ideas were innovative, like issuing tokens on the asset exchange, which we first planned and discussed on BTT many months before NEM actually did it.
We were (probably) the first project to 'assimilate' other alts, and before DH vanished and coinsolidation revealed his 'situation' that looked like a really good method to grow the community.
We've listened to advice and opinions, and many of the best ideas have come from community suggestions, like moving from a coin to an MS, and the shuffle idea & coin assimilations, so we have exhibited some healthy 'starfish' like qualities of decentralized decision making. That's probably what I'm most happy about as the ORA 'catalyst' - I haven't had many good ideas myself, but I have supported other people's, which was always the goal.

We had that period where the future started looking really positive with jl777 onboard for the  'default shuffle coin', but then that idea became redundant, and jl777 then made it clear he was too busy to help us in the future anyway, which I fully understand (ORA is a small community project).

After that we seemed to lose a lot of community interest & momentum, and then there was the SN split over backwards compatibility, and later the NXT 2.0 debate and fallout.

After the ups and downs of that journey I'm content to feel that I scratched my initial 'itch' to try and start a leaderless 'starfish' project, and for things to progress much further ORA needs a few more swingin' dicks in the field. I failed to attract, nurture, and keep a leaderless 'starfish' community together, which was always my primary goal, and I take responsibility for that. I made too many BIG mistakes early on, like not using a forum identity with some established credibility from the start, and trusting key people at critical moments who either flaked out, or weren't exactly straight and honest as I first thought.

It's not over, and I hope ORA continues and develops into something useful, but I know I can't make any guarantees about what will happen in the future. I'm hopeful :)

3
Nxt Projects / Re: [NXT3D] The NXT Community 3D Virtual World
« on: April 03, 2016, 10:16:11 am »
Hello World  :D

where are you ladies and gentlemens ?
really disappointed and demotivated to see that even people who have paid to give life to this project are not registered and do not use it  :( ...

This 2.0 story was like if JL fired the community with a 2.0 photonic torpedo killing the last hopes and the collective enthusiasm starting by this a kind of civil war and the major part of the community preferred to leave the boat instead to fight for their interests... and as collateral effect we have today a community virtual world without a community  ??? >:( :'(

the problem is that the both parties have good intentions and want to push this coin and concept to the best as possible but they are in collision and conflict instead to be a force and power the one for the other...

your taxi :) : https://nxt3d.net/

Thank you all and @++

Please forgive my absence to date OutSL! I have been very busy IRL, and have needed to take a crypto sabbatical to keep my head above water at work and at home. As they say in the classics "I'll be back!", hopefully in the next week or so!

If anyone has ideas for ORA::XOS in NXT3D I'm all ears!

4

Hey, what can I say, I like a good spanking from time to time  :D

Work bitch! Show me some money!!! ;)


Seriously though, this has been a real disaster up until now, for me at least  :-[

I've been sitting with my hands in my hair for many months.

I'm on my limits of what I can take.

Hey Marc, I know your pain. From peak to trough I'm down an incredible amount of $$$ now, I seemed to tread in every piece of altcoin dogshit since 2014, and I've fallen victim to more than one blatant scam. When I include losses from getting hacked in early 2015, and funds lost in my own failed projects it's hard to comprehend. I'm so ashamed of the amount, it's humiliating. The hack was the hardest to cope with, but failure and loss hurt really bad no matter the cause. In the bubble of late 2013 I thought I was going to do well from crypto because I did my homework, and had good intentions, but I was wrong. I was just lucky early, and 'unlucky' since. I don't really know.

The good news for me is I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now, especially after the hack. When that happened I thought I would never recover and it would dominate my mental space forever, but it didn't. I'm still very upset by my failures and losses, but I've learnt a lot too.

James Altucher was a good source of inspiration to me when I was down. That guy made 15M, then lost it, then made it back, then lost it again. Now he's making a career from blogging & podcasting about his experiences. He helped me, maybe you'd like his stuff. He's very honest and entertaining about the roller-coaster of entrepreneurship & life. I could see you doing something similar with blogging and podcasting. You're a good communicator.

This is a great interview with him.
https://londonrealacademy.com/episodes/james-altucher-choose-yourself/

Good luck and stay safe!

5
ORA / Re: [ANN] ORA :: NXT 'monetary system' currency
« on: March 16, 2016, 01:46:09 am »
It's possible participe to wave project with the xos  ?

I hope so, but I honestly need to learn more about Wave! I've been following jl777's asset passport protocol idea and I think it makes a lot of sense to give asset holders the freedom to store their property where they want, and I'm assuming Wave will be pioneers of the 'asset passport'.

Crypto needs both competition & co-opertion, they're the Yin Yang forces we need to drive a crypto wide obsession with usability and thus mass adoption. Giving asset holders the ability to move their property to another blockchain if they're not happy with the 'experience' they're currently getting will promote the type of competition that ultimately makes end-users very happy.

A blockchain satisfies its user's needs, otherwise it withers and dies. Blockchains need to compete on service to their users in order to survive. A stock standard blockchain clone can compete and win on something other than cutting edge tech - user experience & service - that's good IMO, service & usability turns Jo Sixpack on more than tech (probably).

BUT first we need asset platforms to co-operate, and agree on how asset portability should function.

I like the direction, but I need to learn more!

6
ORA / Re: [ANN] ORA :: NXT 'monetary system' currency
« on: March 02, 2016, 12:09:01 pm »
Thanks for the support guys :)

I watched a very thought provoking documentary the other day on The Simulation Hypothesis which got me thinking lots about NXT3D. Maybe the universe is a great big simulation like in the Matrix, the theory does fit the evidence in many ways. It did help me appreciate on a deeper level that NXT3D is NOT a game, but a virtual world where people can work, rest & play.

It really is a great project for ORA::XOS is be involved with.




7
ORA / Re: [ANN] ORA :: NXT 'monetary system' currency
« on: February 26, 2016, 01:07:10 am »
Hello kora some news ?
thx

Sorry, no new news of any substance :(

Things are the same as before i.e. ORA project has stalled .... again .... waiting for new inspiration and direction.

I'm watching the fNXT NXT 2.0 debate closely, as how that plays out will effect all MS currencies in a big way, including ORA::XOS. Whatever ORA::XOS might become in the future, the token we pay tx fees in as an MS currency is a big issue, plus all the other issues around NXT 2.0 and child chains and scalability of the whole NXT ecosystem. Once the roadmap for NXT 2.0 is more clear I expect the future for ORA::XOS will be easier to plot, assuming one exists at all.

There's also the apparent exit of jl777 from NXT community to consider also. jl777 had previously offered to help/advise us with tech, and while he was very busy, I always had hope that jl777 would help us with tech issues when the time came.

I'm still very interested to pursue NXT3D virtual world idea, and we have secured a plot there for the future, and if someone has interest and ideas and/or suggestions please share :)

In all honestly I'm not sure how many *active* supporters of ORA::XOS are left now (if you consider yourself a potential active supporter consider saying "HI!"), so maybe we're dead already, but I still prefer to think we're in hyper-sleep waiting for re-animation once we "arrive" somewhere, ready to 'colonise' a few good ideas in a growing NXT'osphere. That's my hope anyay. The shuffle idea we nearly had off the ground is probably dead, but maybe not ... I'm not really sure.

We never had a firm direction for ORA from the start by design, and our goal was always to build a community first, then develop a consensus around a leaderless project idea that contributed something useful to the goals of decentralised finance & trust systems and crypto currencies generally. I'm still a believer in that basic strategy, but as a non-tech guy, and not particularly smart by this communities standards by any stretch of the imaginaton, it's been quite difficult to say the least. We've also had numerous setbacks & depatures and drop-outs to deal with.

I have invested around 15 bitcoins so far of my own money trying to get the ORA project off the ground, and I bought all my own stash of ORA on the open market on the AE, so if ORA::XOS never re-animates into somethng 'interesting' then my loss is probably larger than anyone elses, which is as it should be.

I'm not giving up, but I'm not overly optimistic either. That's the truth.

Assuming community support has evaporated for the "leaderless starfish community" then my fall-back position to support existing XOS hodlers will be to try and setup some sort of gaming venue inside NXT3D on my own, maybe a virtual version of Just Dice/Satoshi Dice. I would need to hire a dev for that, and my funds are low now, but that's my intention, so I'm trying to generate some funds for that. Recent VPN surge did help with that!!

8
ORA / Re: [ANN] ORA :: NXT 'monetary system' currency
« on: January 18, 2016, 09:56:21 pm »
Last message there is 2 month! Ora RIP ?

Too early for RIP, 'coma' is probably more accurate. I apologise for being MIA for a while (I had a health related hiccup since August to deal with), but I'm still here and haven't given up just yet.

The needed switch away from the 'shuffle' idea was a blow for sure, but this project has had a fair number of setbacks in the past, and we have created the ORA MS (XOS) and we did make a good start on the distribution, so I'd say the ORA candle has a few embers we can use to re-ignite things.

I still believe in the merits of an experimental 'open' styled community based project.

2015 was a tough year for crypto, and plenty of 'quality' projects involving incredibly talented people have struggled to gain traction also, so ORA isn't the only struggling crypto project. When the tide turns for crypto & NXT I plan to be around to work with other like minded people to make 'things' happen.

I'm working on a few ideas, but yeah, things are quiet ... but not over!

Sry to hear about your health problems - hope your ok. I still check back here now and then also so I guess its not dead until we are are :)


Hey frag, good to see you're still about, I appreciate that a lot :)

Yeah, as long as we're still alive there's hope for ORA::XOS. Previously I likened project ORA to running a marathon, but after 2014-15 I think we're in an 'ultra marathon', so there's a swim & bike leg also, with a mountain climb in there for good measure! More pain, but hopefully more 'gain' lol

For now I'm going to explore how ORA can gain a presence in the NXT3D virtual world. It'll be fun to be part of a virtual world no matter what ORA::XOS ends up becoming! It's a good project to support!!

9
Nxt Projects / Re: [NXT3D] The NXT Community 3D Virtual World
« on: January 10, 2016, 06:34:53 am »

Very interesting concept you have here, congratulations :)

Can I reserve yellow plot 48 for project ORA? We still don't know what ORA and 'XOS' exactly are yet, so that probably makes ORA an 'other', so a yellow plot.

Can you confirm how I pay the fee? Do I buy some assets, or is this something from the DGS?

thanks

Quote
If you want a representative 3D office for your activity or business, please select a land number and send it as message when you purchase this service, this land will be reserved for you.
The service delivery is ~72 hours after the sale of all the available lands... you can follow the progress of sales and help promote the service to get things done faster

Merchand Store: NXT-USKX-8L4P-QJJJ-DSJ7N
Service Name : NXT3D Lands Rental 1 Year
Service ID : 5262690982377691296

just pay your land, i will confirm it here and will change the 48 to reserved in the map  :)


I have paid the fee!

If possible can we have Orange 30 or 32? I think ORA meets the requirement for that region, or will one day.

thanks

10
Nxt Projects / Re: [NXT3D] The NXT Community 3D Virtual World
« on: January 10, 2016, 01:57:30 am »
Very interesting concept you have here, congratulations :)

Can I reserve yellow plot 48 for project ORA? We still don't know what ORA and 'XOS' exactly are yet, so that probably makes ORA an 'other', so a yellow plot.

Can you confirm how I pay the fee? Do I buy some assets, or is this something from the DGS?

thanks

Quote
If you want a representative 3D office for your activity or business, please select a land number and send it as message when you purchase this service, this land will be reserved for you.
The service delivery is ~72 hours after the sale of all the available lands... you can follow the progress of sales and help promote the service to get things done faster

Merchand Store: NXT-USKX-8L4P-QJJJ-DSJ7N
Service Name : NXT3D Lands Rental 1 Year
Service ID : 5262690982377691296

11
ORA / Re: [ANN] ORA :: NXT 'monetary system' currency
« on: January 10, 2016, 01:48:04 am »
Last message there is 2 month! Ora RIP ?

Too early for RIP, 'coma' is probably more accurate. I apologise for being MIA for a while (I had a health related hiccup since August to deal with), but I'm still here and haven't given up just yet.

The needed switch away from the 'shuffle' idea was a blow for sure, but this project has had a fair number of setbacks in the past, and we have created the ORA MS (XOS) and we did make a good start on the distribution, so I'd say the ORA candle has a few embers we can use to re-ignite things.

I still believe in the merits of an experimental 'open' styled community based project.

2015 was a tough year for crypto, and plenty of 'quality' projects involving incredibly talented people have struggled to gain traction also, so ORA isn't the only struggling crypto project. When the tide turns for crypto & NXT I plan to be around to work with other like minded people to make 'things' happen.

I'm working on a few ideas, but yeah, things are quiet ... but not over!

12
The original BCNext design, at least from what CfB told me, was to limit certain features to MS currencies only. Shuffling was supposed to be one of those features.

BCNext said this (via CfB):
Quote
NXTs r not coins, at least the creator of Nxt didn’t want them to be coins. They r tokens that grant privileges to support Nxt. Deflation is not much better than inflation, “real” coins should be created on top of Nxt and be issued in quantities that keep their value constant. BCNext understands that this is very arguable, the community should decide if it wants to follow the path showed by him or stick to Bitcoin legacy with unchangeable supply of coins in hope to become rich by doing nothing.

NXT token is NOT like any other first generation crypto, so I hope people get that this issue isn't really about ORA or shuffling, but more about what will be the future uses for the NXT token itself as oppossed to MS currencies etc. I don't think adding shuffle tech to the NXT token would change much, and I think the idea has merrit in many ways, but seeing NXT as just another 'retail' crypto coin does miss the power of BCNext's original vision too. It's not a great anology, but I see NXT token more like the love child of postage stamp and a passport - yes, it has value, but it's much more 'interesting' than a dollar bill. We don't want to lose that!!



It's positively absurd the way this community...
Has elevated BCNext into a legendary Economics and Currency expert.

People take money incredibly seriously...
And instead of methodically building the #3 crypto-currency NXT when you had a gaping 18 month window...
You guys pissed it all away by becoming obssessed with a constellation of "tokens" that no one cares about...
Since no serious group will launch an MS coin with endless limitations... when you can just fork anything out there.

Some ideas just fail... deal with it... move on... try something else...
The "let's put more lipstick on pig" mentality will get you nowhere in the hyper-competitive Crypto Space.

I have a different time horizon to you probably, and I think there's still a long way to travel before we get a clear picture of what works and what doesn't with crypto currencies and decentralised finance. I also think NXT can exist for a very long time as it is now without suffering fatal damage. By that I mean some other high profile projects need to show periodic $$$ results to justify continued support from their 'investors' but I don't see the same thing with NXT. Sure, if price over the next 6-18 months is the barometer you're using to judge things then you might still feel just as disappointed then as you do today, but not everybody uses the same metrics to measure 'success'.

I'm still very optimistic for the future because the key metric for me isn't price, and my time horizon is years not months. I agree other crypto projects could overtake NXT's marketcap in the short-medium term, but I think there's still enough people interested in decentralised finance as a concept that some people will buy more as the price of NXT token falls. NXT doesn't have to make profits, and doesn't need to pay wages or dividends, so as long as enough critical people 'care' then things will continue. Some people will lose money and leave, and others will get 'interested' and join the community. I don't see things as negatively as you do, and I'm not from a finance /trading background either, so I'm here because it's interesting and fun to explore, watch, observe and contribute sometimes to what's happening. I've lost some money on NXT too, but that doesn't dampen my enthusiasm for NXT as a 'platform' in 5-10 years time.

As for BCNext being treated as an economics guru I think you're missing the point. NXT is an open platform for others to use as they choose, so BCNext is to NXT what Tim Berners-Lee is to the WWW. As the WWW matured as a technology publishing ideas and information became increasingly easy and accessible to ordinary people, and now we have tools like wordpress and blogs and twitter etc, and ordinary people can self publish anywhere in the world with very little costs in terms of time, money, skills. Does that make Tim Berners-Lee the greatest journalist or publishing visionary in human history? His creation led to this revolution in publishing, but I think most people respect him because he made this huge contribution to how people exchange information, then did everything he could to make it free & open to use. He didn't turn it into a profit making venture, and that's one of the reasons the www took off so quickly.

I see BCNext more like that. Berners-Lee is a physicist, BCNext is a programmer. That doesn't stop their inventions revolutionising other fields. What they DO have in common is how they tried to share their discovery without the profit motive being the primary goal. I can remember reading newspaper articles just after the dot com bust saying things like "intenet was a fad". Your negativity at this time reads like that to me - "NXT platform was a fad" after just two years.

NXT doesn't need to make 'profits' anymore than the WWW needs to make profit. It took 15-20 years for the WWW to start allowing the things built on top of it like google & facebook to make huge profits, and maybe it'll be the same for NXT platform. The question then becomes can NXT survive that long with it's present structure? If it was a business like ethereum probably not, but I sense people here are motivated by more than money, and most have patience to persist. NXT isn't even two years old yet!

Do http & tcp/ip make profits? That doesn't make sense! They're protocols that people build things on top of, and then people build businesses out of those things and so on. My opinion is MS currencies will have a big roll to play in the future because they give micro communities a chance to create their own token with almost zero costs in time, skill, & money, just like CMS's like wordpress allow individuals to publish information today. That journey from tcp/ip, to WWW & html, then to wordpress took quite a while but because of the way Berners-Lee introduced the WWW to the world it was possible. BCNext introduced NXT in a similar way - its open and free and decentralised, and not dependent on profits

Don't give up too early! Don't be one of those guys who blew off the "Internet" as a 'fail' after the dot com bubble popped. Look at the fundamentals for continued survival of NXT. They're still really good because NXT is decentralised and people are here because they want to be. Passion levels are still high IMO. NXT only fails if people stop maintaining the code and others stop using it, and some will still buy NXT at a price well below where it is today. It's possible some developers might leave from time-to-time, and that worries me, but so far I think the dev people working in and around NXT are fantastic!!

NXT is running a marathon!!

13
ORA / Re: [ANN] ORA :: NXT 'monetary system' currency
« on: July 27, 2015, 02:32:11 pm »
Apparently a million NXT will forge once a day or so. I imagine shuffling will not be time-critical, so that might be enough.

I'm confident we could raise that sort of amount for a dedicated shuffle forging account! I think it's a great idea to keep brainstorming (ORA as a low fee shuffle service) , so thanks so much for suggesting it Brangdon :)

Eventually how we proceed will be heavily dependent on the shuffle tech itself, but offering a low fee MS shuffle option could be a very popular niche, and it would complement NXT token shuffling nicely.

14
ORA / Re: [ANN] ORA :: NXT 'monetary system' currency
« on: July 26, 2015, 12:54:57 pm »
we can still be the best god-damn shuffle MS in town!!
Do you have concrete plans for how? I imagine liquidity will be important. When you shuffle, you need to find 10 other people who want to shuffle with you, and for the same amount. Can that be faked with a small number of people constantly shuffling all they have, or does it depend on a large community? I suspect the former wouldn't give enough protection from statistical attacks.

I'm hoping the large pool we have in our distribution for direct shuffle rewards would provide enough incentive to reach the critical mass of shufflers required to provide a reliable service.

20.8%  - shuffle rewards (1,000,000 XOS per week for 4 years)



Are you aware of the ideas set out in this thread? The key is that the account that forges a block gets to add transactions to the block effectively for free (since they get the fees themselves). This means they can also offer reduced fees to other people, by including a transaction that returns the fee in the same block. To be sure the transaction reached the right forger, they'd have to be submitted to the forge directly, not through the usual Nxt network.

So someone could chose to offer reduced fees for transactions involving XOS shuffling. To be effective, they'd need to own enough NXT to forge frequently.

Thanks for pointing that out Brangdon!! I've only been skimming over the fee debate, but I had a quick read over that thread and I think I can see the broad implications. In the future there might be scope for forgers to charge different fees for different users & transaction types, and maybe ORA could find a niche processing certain types of transactions for a target market, is that basically on the right track? If so, I think that's something we should definitely explore!!

How much NXT do you estimate we would need to forge regularly enough to provide this type of service?

15
ORA / Re: [ANN] ORA :: NXT 'monetary system' currency
« on: July 26, 2015, 12:37:53 pm »
continue with shuffle, but add something extra option: XOS have other uses,


   -first step exceeded Coin Shuffling  ✔

Coin Shuffling design decision
active poll 2751730409036026521.info

According to current results people prefer the option 2 (MS currency and direct NXT shuffling)

This result suggests an option 1:1?

   -second step to add more value
Quote
jl777 PM

I have some silver coins that I planned to use to promote MS with
I am thinking that we can back the ORA with the silver coins to give it some specific value
it is the pondsea supernet coins

   -third step Add Useful
Until now we only had experience in creating MS currencies, create, mine them and explore their qualities. XOS goes a little further, having a very large participant base and extending cabin MS to instantDEX.
Thought about how to implement and provide more stability for an early implementation or in the near future, be considered in the development of ORA the range of advantage of the proposal:


As XOS anonymous method to shuffle the system is part of the internal ecosystem in the NXT platform, as an incentive, we could extend its functions to provide greater utility and functionality in the Marketplace for an option to choose a payment method NXT or XOS, provides the environment for getting more usages, reaching more than 3.000 potential users of the distribution initial in ORA, MIC, dividends SUPERNET and NXTventure, and others.


The advantages:

Push the Marketplace,
More fees,
More reasons to use day-to-day,
Expanding Distribution,
Brake escape to NXT,
Increase in market value,
Preserve node adoption shuffle,
...

It could be technically possible?
what do you think

   -fourth step, preserve node adoption shuffle
A choice of incentive to keep shuffling nodes propose a surcharge of 0.15 - 1% out rate for  exit XOS to external exchange (transfer price between XOS accounts).

Additional charges for sale operation 1 NXT (current fee) + % XOS for nodes, how it would affect operations in XOS MS booth exchange.
It is technically possible?

You have more ideas?

 

Great ideas xupxup, thanks :) I especially like your 3rd and 4th steps, and I've been thinking of similar things. I agree that we should try and use our status as one of the first MS currencies with a wide distribution among early adopting NXT'ers to create something closer to the 'core' of the NXT ecosystem. Because we're still very flexible and open to community suggestions, I 'm hopeful we'll still end up doing something really useful for the whole ecosystem in some way. Later MS coins will 'use' the NXT infrastructure to achieve their purpose, but ORA's purpose might still be to become 'part' of the NXT infrastructure, but for that to happen we need wide community support, and I think the longer we persist, the better are our chances, especially as we've been around for a while now, so people are recognising (and hopefully accepting) ORA as something that's evolving with NXT.

I'm less interested in ORA as a 'retail' end user MS, and still hopeful we can create a community MS that performs a worthwhile function that strengthens NXT. Shuffling and maybe something to do with lower fees and/or the marketplace would be a great example of that, and there are others too no doubt!!

16
ORA / Re: [ANN] ORA :: NXT 'monetary system' currency
« on: July 24, 2015, 01:16:46 pm »
I've been thinking over the current situation for ORA with regard to 'shuffling' being enabled for NXT token itself, and I think we have a few options. The shuffle idea is still a good option for ORA, and I still think we can make it work, but obviously the 'default shuffle coin' isn't applicable anymore, but we can still be the best god-damn shuffle MS in town!! But IMO we need to add something extra now to survive, or at least target a particular shuffle niche, so it's time to brain-storm again.

Our basic options are:
1- continue as before with the MS shuffle coin roadmap
2- continue with shuffle, but add something extra
3- change tack completely, and do something different
4- back into cryogenic statis pending further developments
5- retire ORA for good

ORA has always been an experiment for me, and the ups & downs along the way while we try and make something useful using decentralised decision making is all part of the experience, so I'm going to persist a while longer, but I do understand if other people want to re-assess their involvement.

My preference is probably option 2- continue with shuffle but try and add a killer feature or two. I'm thinking something like trying to position ORA as a gaming token, and possibly trying to get hooked up with existing and planned poker sites etc.

The other idea that popped out of my last brain-storm was decentralised music streaming using decentralised storage like Sia with streaming masternodes all connected economically with ORA MS (I went pretty deep on the 'something completely different' brain-storm), but I don't even know if that's technically possible yet, but i do think the economics of music streaming are heavily against the musicians, and the streaming tech is centralised, so there's potential for disruption.

Anyway guys, lets discuss where we think we should go from here!!


17
Imo, NXT is best described as a "transactional currency".  It is the fuel that runs the platform and allows all the different transaction types on the blockchain.  Since NXT provides a utility, the ability to use the NXT platform, and has scarcity, it will always have value.  I believe that BCNext's vision was for stable currencies to be issued on the NXT platform and to have a stable value alongside an unstable NXT value.  Just because NXT has an unstable value doesn't mean it is not valuable.  It's my opinion that NXT is extremely valuable considering it is required to perform functions on the blockchain.  The beauty of an unstable transaction currency and a stable currency operating side by side is that it allows freedom of choice for the user.  The fact is that most users will not require a large sum of NXT to fulfill their needs and if they choose, they can store their money in a stable alternative operating on chain.  This also means that a high priced NXT, which is required for greater chain security, doesn't limit the user adoption of the platform.  Even if everyone chooses to store their money in a stable currency, that will not appreciate, they will still need some NXT and as the userbase of NXT grows the more valuable NXT will become.

That's how I see NXT token too! In western countries people are mostly conditioned to living with a single currency but in many developing countries people are used to working with multiple currencies, and complementary/community currencies are becoming more common too, although slowly. The great opportunity for the NXT ecosystem is to connect an ever growing collection of MS currencies and asset communities into a loose confederation via sharing of the common NXT blockchain & token.

The other day my seven year old son and I were looking through an atlas, and he pointed at the large land mass of Australia and said "Australia is a continent and a country" and I agreed. Then he pointed at Africa and asked "is Africa a country?", and I explained that it was a continent made up of about 50 countries. Then he pointed to the USA and asked "is America a country?", and I explained that it was a country made up of about 50 states. Then he asked the obvious question "what's the difference between the states inside the USA, and the countries inside Africa?" Good question I thought!! The best I could come up with was to tell him that the states in the USA share their money, but African countries don't, and USA states share some rules and laws, but also get to make up some of their own ones too, while African countries share 'world' rules and not really 'African' ones. I then asked him which one sounded better to him and he said he liked the idea that American states can share some rules, but also get the chance to make up their own ones, and America must be very powerful because it's the size of 50 African countries! I agreed! Then he asked me "do any countries share money?" and I pointed at Europe and said "these guys are trying but it isn't working very well", and he said "is that because they don't share rules?" and I said "maybe" lol

Anyway, NXT token as a transactional currency as you put it allows for a confederation of coin & asset communites to share some rules, but also have the flexibility to make up their own, but if people end up using NXT token for end purposes instead of creating new MS coins, we'll end up with an ecosystem of assets and NXT token only, which is still the best crypto going around, but it wont evolve into a confederation of separate financial entities and communities, and that would be a shame IMO, as the strength for the whole ecosystem would/will come from the common elements behind all the different communities - the NXT token & blockchain.

18
The original BCNext design, at least from what CfB told me, was to limit certain features to MS currencies only. Shuffling was supposed to be one of those features.

The ORA community wants to position ORA (now issued as XOS) as the default shuffling coin. If shuffling is only possible for MS coins, this would give ORA value, and since anonymity is better if there are more shufflings, with more participants, it would form a natural monopoly, as everyone would use the coin where most shufflings happen to shuffle his money too (even though other MS coins will also support shuffling).

If direct shuffling of NXT is not enabled, people would use the monetary system more, as shuffling is strong enough reason to motivate them to exchange NXT to MS and back. This increased use of the MS would hopefully trickle down to other MS currencies, if ORA becomes a successful example of an MS currency with a real usage and value. This would in turn lead to more development of client side features for the MS, for example someone could develop a plugin that makes it straightforward to exchange from NXT to MS, shuffle, exchange back, or plugin that seamlessly lets users exchange MS to NXT when needed to replenish the balance for paying fees.

If direct shuffling of NXT is possible, people will not bother to exchange to an MS currency in order to shuffle NXT. The ORA holders would also be forced to find a different way to give their coin a reason to be used and value.

Excellent summary of the situation Jean-Luc, and well done for organising a vote to test community feeling on the issue!!

I'm obviously biased to a certain extent, and without shuffling ORA's continued survival as a viable project is less certain, but I do not like the idea of limiting the growth and adoption of NXT itself by artificially restricting utility against the wishes of most of the community either. I want crypto currencies to ultimately succeed as 'digitial cash', and that's not possible without the fungibility provided by anonymous transactions, and that's why I'm so excitied by 'shuffling'.

The issue then becomes what is the purpose of the NXT token itself, because we ALL want the ability to anonymise the whole NXT platform via shuffling, so the issue is what is the best way to achieve that? The choice is not 'for' or 'against' anonymous transactions, and the effect on ORA (i.e. XOS) is not relevant either, and I'm sure if enough committed people continue to work together on ORA we can find other ways to make XOS 'interesting'! It's not like all the good ideas for cryptos have been discovered & implemented yet.

The issue is what is the best use case for the NXT token itself, what is its roll? That goes beyond shuffling.

BCNext said this (via CfB):
Quote
NXTs r not coins, at least the creator of Nxt didn’t want them to be coins. They r tokens that grant privileges to support Nxt. Deflation is not much better than inflation, “real” coins should be created on top of Nxt and be issued in quantities that keep their value constant. BCNext understands that this is very arguable, the community should decide if it wants to follow the path showed by him or stick to Bitcoin legacy with unchangeable supply of coins in hope to become rich by doing nothing.

Shuffle & anon capabilities are fundamental to the creation of 'digital cash' and NXT ecosystem needs to engineer a really super simple user friendly method that just 'works', like an iPod or Google search does for most people. But if that can be achieved using MS currencies under-the-hood (i.e. maybe the end user isn't even aware of it) would that have benefits for the whole NXT ecosystem? I think that's what BCNext thought, and he intended people to mostly use MS currencies running on top of NXT.

NXT token is NOT like any other first generation crypto, so I hope people get that this issue isn't really about ORA or shuffling, but more about what will be the future uses for the NXT token itself as oppossed to MS currencies etc. I don't think adding shuffle tech to the NXT token would change much, and I think the idea has merrit in many ways, but seeing NXT as just another 'retail' crypto coin does miss the power of BCNext's original vision too. It's not a great anology, but I see NXT token more like the love child of postage stamp and a passport - yes, it has value, but it's much more 'interesting' than a dollar bill. We don't want to lose that!!

19
10% - jl777 SNcoin swap
10% - SuperNET dividend
5% - Mac Red (Webapp Dev) - Paid
5% - shuffle plugin dev
2% - Kora expense account - Paid
1.0% - Darkhorse - community treasurer
1.0% - Fragora - community treasurer & CryptoFest.tv dev
16% - Power Bounties & community funds
14.7% - ORA webapp distribution (890 stakeholders X 166,000 =  147,740,000 XOR)
12.5% - MIC assimilation (250,000,000 MIC X 0.5 = 125,000,000 XOR)
22.8% - unallocated funds

Am I right, that 10% will be sent to supernet holders? - and is there a 'snapshot' date for this? Thanks!

No, not yet.
I estimate that this will be discussed once shuffling is getting closer to be released for the MS currencies in Nxt.

Congratulations & a BIG thanks to Nxter, the distribution is going extremely well :)

I agree with Nxter that the SuperNET dividend will probably happen closer to the launch of the shuffle plugin itself, but I'm open to other opinions on that.

One thing that we probably should discuss first is compensation for the new people who have come together and given renewed life to ORA. How will we compensate those individuals? Anyone following ORA for a while will probably be familiar with my 'power bounty' idea (i.e. merit based bounties voted by the community that create a small army of super motivated dolphins & mini-whales). We sort of moved past that when we went down the NXT MS road, and so avoided the need for a lot of extra features compared to if we'd continued to develop a whole new P2P coin network as originally planned, but my belief that people who contribute effort and produce results *should* be compensated still remains just as strong. So ... how can we compensate people?

This was the distribution I proposed  just before Nxter joined:

Quote
'ORA::Shuffle' - semi-official provisional RoadMap
The distro:
10%   - jl777 SNcoin swap
10%   - SuperNET dividend
5%     - Mac Red (Webapp Dev) - Paid
5%     - shuffle plugin dev
2%     - Kora expense account - Paid
1.0%   - Darkhorse - community treasurer???
1.0%   - Fragora - community treasurer & CryptoFest.tv dev
14.7%  - ORA webapp distribution (890 stakeholders X 166,000 =  147,740,000 XOR)
12.5%  - MIC assimilation (250,000,000 MIC X 0.5 = 125,000,000 XOR)
20.8%  - shuffle rewards (1,000,000 ORA per week for 4 years)
10%     - promotion & further distribution
8%      - long term community funds (ideally 4 individuals with 2% each)


It's probably reasonable to assume Darkhorse's 1% is unclaimed now, but we have Nxter, Pilot & apenzl at least to consider, plus jl777, plus Jack Needles. I will distribute the remainder of my 2% 'expense account' between these guys (~10M ORA), but I think we should consider doing more. Projects fail when people lose motivation! Pilot has expressed interest in maybe contributing some dev work towards the shuffle tech on top of his community treasurer duties, and apenzl will hopefully be doing a lot of the ORA marketing and promo work, plus organising a nxter.org distribution. Nxter is our chief community treasurer, & jl777 is our connection with SuperNET plus an all-round dev powerhouse.

So, let's try and discuss compensation for people now, before we go too much further down the tracks!


20
ORA / Re: ORA community vote: XORA re-issue
« on: July 04, 2015, 10:32:35 am »
I've played around with some ideas but also came to the conclusion that XOS would be a good code.
I'd probably prefer "shuffle" instead of "coin" in the name but either works.

Thanks Mac, your 100% correct! Only one crypto curency sounds cool with 'coin' in the name, and that's Bitcoin. ORA is only alive today because Jack Needles suggested the 'shuffle' idea and that got jl777 and others 'interested', and we should be proud and grateful for that moment in the ORA story, so 'ORAshuffle' is the name, and 'XOS' is the currency code. The name 'ORAshuffle' shouldn't prevent ORA from being used for purposes other than 'shuffling', it's a generic sounding name.

I've registered the live ORA MS!
http://nxtportal.org/currencies/17415019753777810897

I've also transferred all 1,000,000,000 XOS coins to Nxter's new ORA treasury account!
http://nxtportal.org/transactions/12515436873589786749



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