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[Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
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Author Topic: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call  (Read 42869 times)

Kora

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2015, 09:39:36 am »

Ok, I've made my decision! This is my opinion, and I'm just one voice.

I've been convinced by Jack's arguments in favor of keeping XORA as is despite the 'decimal malfunction'. My number 1 priority has always been to help make ORA into something useful for the wider crypto movement, and the shuffle idea fits that description perfectly. As Jack has pointed out, the 1:1 ratio does make perfect sense for 'default shuffle coin', and the only real downside is the HUGE windfall gain for existing ORA holders. Will the wider NXT community accept it?

What ORA::shuffle needs most to be successful is:
1- rock solid shuffle tech that 'works'; the utility aspects Jack described that 1:1 produces
2- community support and acceptance as the 'default' shuffle coin

The task then becomes can we use the windfall gain from 1:1 to achieve 2- above (almost universal community support & acceptance for XORA as the go-to shuffle coin). I think we can!!!

With that in mind, if we decide to keep XORA with the 1:1 limitation I'm going to give 10M of my ~14M personal stake in XORA to the NXT foundation (the ORA I purchased on the NXT AE). That doesn't include the ~10M left over from my original 2% 'expense account' which I've already promised as personal bounties to the new people who've volunteered recently to help out, and who literally brought ORA back to life, for which I'm still extremely grateful.

10M XORA would have a notional value of 10M NXT, and one day if ORA::shuffle is successful, it might actually be worth 10M NXT. That's (potentially) very good for the NXT community as a whole, and I feel a personal stake of ~4M XORA (valued notionally at 4M NXT) for myself is more than enough. This split turns the windfall gain into ongoing funding for NXT, and it might help generate more community support for ORA, and that's my ultimate goal. ORA needs support more than anything else to survive, and 10M XORA can help produce that!

Now, this is a personal choice for me that makes sense, and other XORA whales are free to make their own call, so no pressure on anyone, please! There are plenty of other ways to contribute, and some may prefer to keep some 'whale ammo' in reserve for a later date. I can feel my use-by-date is pretty close now, so this feels right for me.

Of course, the community consensus may end up deciding that re-issue is the better option anyway, and I would support that too without any fuss either. I do however feel that the serendipity provided by the 'decimal malfunction' is almost too good to pass-by, and by donating some of the 'windfall' to the NXT community we do have the potential for a win:win of epic proportions.

I vote to keep XORA, despite the 8 decimals.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 09:44:32 am by Kora »
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barbierir

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2015, 10:10:36 am »

I'm agnostic on this, mainly because I still don't know how shuffling with XORA will actually work. If an high price floor doesn't impact on the functionality and appeal of shuffling with XORA then we can keep it.
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barbierir

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2015, 10:14:28 am »

A couple more thoughts on the windfall:

One thing XORA has to be VERY proud of is a GREAT starting distribution.  BUT, I'd hate to see those that sold early miss out on a GOOD THING.

WHAT IF, we did one more round of distribution based upon the INITIAL DISTRIBUTION LIST (889, IIRC?).  Could be funded by treasury and/or XORA whales.  Wouldn't have to be the full 166,666 amount, but something is better than nothing...

This is a very good idea
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chanc3r

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2015, 10:37:06 am »

Well I just sent my MIC to the account...
Hopefully I get something back  ;D

Sure!
We just need to make the decision of how to proceed first.   ;)

Well if you don't as advertised in the OP then you just send my MIC back...
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Sebastien256

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2015, 10:48:58 am »

Imo, XORA will need pretty solid shuffle tech. I mean very easy in and very easy out, ie. with one mouse click and your Nxt are shuffle and send to a target account. I think that is a minimum requirement for XORA adoption.

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xupxup

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2015, 01:53:15 pm »

I agree with Jack Needles to keep XORA, we can ask for a technical error in good faith or is your destiny to be something bigger in the near future... If we get the consensus of the community for the 1: 1 I will donate 250k XORA for deployment of additional technology, to say an account of the treasury.
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rubenbc

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2015, 02:48:16 pm »

I vote to leave things as they are.

if you work in developing xora can be a fixed value. (1-1 )

for my part I would give 350k XORA for funding

regards

Jack Needles

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2015, 03:15:27 pm »

.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 12:34:16 am by Jack Needles »
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fragora

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2015, 03:33:35 pm »

I'm agnostic on this, mainly because I still don't know how shuffling with XORA will actually work. If an high price floor doesn't impact on the functionality and appeal of shuffling with XORA then we can keep it.

I think this point is very important before we jump the gun and find out later that shuffling is impossible or too labour-some with the 1:1 peg
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Nxter

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2015, 11:01:06 pm »

It seems that the majority of opinions here are in favor to continue with XORA currency as it is and even there are pledged some donations for development under these conditions.

If the general opinion doesn't change and/or if nobody comes out with good ponts in favor of reissuing the currency in the next 24 hours. We will resume the distribution of XORA to anyone that sends or sent already ORA/MIC assets to the distribution account in the OP.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 11:07:39 pm by Nxter »
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apenzl

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2015, 11:55:06 pm »

Good points all over. I vote for NOT re-issuing XORA.

Kora

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2015, 11:56:29 pm »

It seems that the majority of opinions here are in favor to continue with XORA currency as it is and even there are pledged some donations for development under these conditions.

If the general opinion doesn't change and/or if nobody comes out with good ponts in favor of reissuing the currency in the next 24 hours. We will resume the distribution of XORA to anyone that sends or sent already ORA/MIC assets to the distribution account in the OP.

+1
We don't want things to drag on too long so a 24 hour deadline for a decision is a good idea.
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MadCow

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2015, 01:20:45 am »

With that in mind, if we decide to keep XORA with the 1:1 limitation I'm going to give 10M of my ~14M personal stake in XORA to the NXT foundation (the ORA I purchased on the NXT AE). That doesn't include the ~10M left over from my original 2% 'expense account' which I've already promised as personal bounties to the new people who've volunteered recently to help out, and who literally brought ORA back to life, for which I'm still extremely grateful.

10M XORA would have a notional value of 10M NXT, and one day if ORA::shuffle is successful, it might actually be worth 10M NXT. That's (potentially) very good for the NXT community as a whole, and I feel a personal stake of ~4M XORA (valued notionally at 4M NXT) for myself is more than enough. This split turns the windfall gain into ongoing funding for NXT, and it might help generate more community support for ORA, and that's my ultimate goal. ORA needs support more than anything else to survive, and 10M XORA can help produce that!

Good idea, 10M XORA for the nxt foundation gets my support!

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andyatcrux

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2015, 03:06:45 am »

Kora deciding to give up such a chunk of personal stake is very laudable, but I am not surprised that most everyone else is against reissuing. Obviously it is difficult to not be swayed by the bias created from holding 166K XORA pegged at 1:1 with NXT. As someone who did not get in on the action, I am also biased in saying I would love to see a reissue.
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Kora

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2015, 04:03:33 am »

Kora deciding to give up such a chunk of personal stake is very laudable, but I am not surprised that most everyone else is against reissuing. Obviously it is difficult to not be swayed by the bias created from holding 166K XORA pegged at 1:1 with NXT. As someone who did not get in on the action, I am also biased in saying I would love to see a reissue.

Yes, there are some powerful 'motivators' at play here, and to be successful ORA needs almost unanimous community support (i.e. over 90%), so recognising our own biases is very important. The 1:1 windfall is a potential resource, but we need to use it wisely. If we're perceived as greedy we lose support!!!

Remember that many original stakeholders sold their 166K stakes early  (that's how I accumulated my ~14M, and others quite large stacks also), so anybody still holding 166K ORA after over a year showed loyalty to ORA, and in the crypto scene loyalty is a valuable 'commodity'.

Also, there will be plenty more XORA spread around in the near future:
- 10% for SuperNET dividend
- 10% via nxter.org giveaways
- 20.8% in 'shuffle' rewards

There might be other XORA whale initiatives later too, plus 8% in long term community funds. There'll be lots of ways for community members to get some XORA, and I hope you get some andyatcrux!

You do highlight the key issue though - XORA needs almost universal support & acceptance as the default shuffle MS valued at 1 NXT each, and if we believe that the 1:1 windfall will be seen as a negative then we MUST re-issue.

BUT, if we're smart, and we use the windfall wisely to genuinely help NXT organisation and development (i.e. the ORA flea gives the NXT dog a blood transfusion), and we spread XORA around in a way that's genuinely regarded as 'fair' and 'beneficial' ... then ... we *might* succeed.

It's a great test for decentralised decision making!
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andyatcrux

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2015, 05:08:57 am »

Thanks for your response, you seem very sensible and it seems whatever is decided will be done with careful consideration. I will be watching this project closely and and look forward to seeing it have some further success.
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atchoum6760

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #56 on: June 18, 2015, 07:51:52 am »



Remember that many original stakeholders sold their 166K stakes early  (that's how I accumulated my ~14M, and others quite large stacks also), so anybody still holding 166K ORA after over a year showed loyalty to ORA, and in the crypto scene loyalty is a valuable 'commodity'.

I have my original stakeholder  :-* I just want change now for the xora  ;)


Transaction: 5942530403831538674 
Timestamp   15-Jun-2015 08:16:37
Height   451122 / 2366 confirmation(s)
Block ID   17285981245461016011
Amt + Fee   0 + 1 NXT
Sender   
Recipient    NXT-E26D-DMFT-N8XV-37PBS
Type   Asset Exchange
Subtype   Asset Transfer
QuantityQNT   
178486
Asset   
16194910134118257692 (ORA)
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xcn

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #57 on: June 18, 2015, 08:11:18 am »

Hi!
Sent my ORA to NXT-E26D-DMFT-N8XV-37PBS and PMed Kora.

tx:16336948782529787042

waiting...
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rubenbc

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #58 on: June 18, 2015, 10:21:28 am »

Kora deciding to give up such a chunk of personal stake is very laudable, but I am not surprised that most everyone else is against reissuing. Obviously it is difficult to not be swayed by the bias created from holding 166K XORA pegged at 1:1 with NXT. As someone who did not get in on the action, I am also biased in saying I would love to see a reissue.

Yes, there are some powerful 'motivators' at play here, and to be successful ORA needs almost unanimous community support (i.e. over 90%), so recognising our own biases is very important. The 1:1 windfall is a potential resource, but we need to use it wisely. If we're perceived as greedy we lose support!!!

Remember that many original stakeholders sold their 166K stakes early  (that's how I accumulated my ~14M, and others quite large stacks also), so anybody still holding 166K ORA after over a year showed loyalty to ORA, and in the crypto scene loyalty is a valuable 'commodity'.

Also, there will be plenty more XORA spread around in the near future:
- 10% for SuperNET dividend
- 10% via nxter.org giveaways
- 20.8% in 'shuffle' rewards

There might be other XORA whale initiatives later too, plus 8% in long term community funds. There'll be lots of ways for community members to get some XORA, and I hope you get some andyatcrux!

You do highlight the key issue though - XORA needs almost universal support & acceptance as the default shuffle MS valued at 1 NXT each, and if we believe that the 1:1 windfall will be seen as a negative then we MUST re-issue.

BUT, if we're smart, and we use the windfall wisely to genuinely help NXT organisation and development (i.e. the ORA flea gives the NXT dog a blood transfusion), and we spread XORA around in a way that's genuinely regarded as 'fair' and 'beneficial' ... then ... we *might* succeed.

It's a great test for decentralised decision making!


I couldn't participate in the initial distribution .
I was accumulating while selling huge quantities, buying little by little, anyone could do  . I bet by this community like many of us .

by mistake , by luck or fate, we met on this train.
let's do it big! ;)

a greeting :D

Kora

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Re: [Ann] New final, ORA and MIC assets Redemption Process - last call
« Reply #59 on: June 18, 2015, 11:40:27 am »

I've started a poll to help us make the decision!

https://nxtforum.org/ora/ora-community-vote-xora-re-issue/

edit: I say we assess the result in 24 hours and then make the decision
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 11:43:11 am by Kora »
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