Nxt Forum

Nxt Discussion => -Old and Inactive Projects- => Nxt Projects => NXTventures => Topic started by: jl777 on November 18, 2014, 05:03:07 am

Title: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: jl777 on November 18, 2014, 05:03:07 am
Pangea is SuperNET's decentralized poker that uses provably random numbers and will take advantage of the built in privacy features of SuperNET. 80% of revenues will be distributed to assetholders. 20% of revenues will go to marketing affiliates, with Privatebet handling the SuperNET players for Pangea.

https://nxtforum.org/nxtventures/pangea-poker/ will have the latest information
#####

7.5% dividend for SuperNET assetholders and 7.5% for NXTventure assetholders, time to be determined. 5% to JLH

James

Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: jl777 on November 18, 2014, 05:03:19 am
reserved
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: BTCDDev on November 18, 2014, 05:06:31 am
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on November 18, 2014, 07:31:56 am
                  Pangea Poker

(http://i.imgur.com/FKnUkQz.png)

Latest plans are to release a playmoney standalone version for testing purposes in late March/early April. Then, we plan to integrate into superNET and have a realmoney release in May/June.


GUI updates

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1YyatjUp8A
2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1fl39lUiAs
3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwc9kQUoSNA
4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rULrkZFuBBE
5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lk0OBKi3tc
6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq4bWxCYr5c
7: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzhd2_WH-eE

Mentions
http://nxter.org/supernet-newsletter-8/
http://wiki.supernet.org/wiki/Pangea

Listings
http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/pangea-poker/
https://trade.secureae.com/#6883271355794806507
http://www.mynxt.info/asset/6883271355794806507


Social Media
https://www.twitter.com/PangeaPoker
https://www.facebook.com/pages/PangeaPoker/1600770346810708
https://www.pinterest.com/PangeaPoker/
http://www.weibo.com/PangeaPoker

Website
www.pangeapoker.net


Logo discussion

https://nxtforum.org/nxtventures/pangea-poker/msg147696/#msg147696
https://nxtforum.org/nxtventures/pangea-poker/msg148012/#msg148012
https://nxtforum.org/nxtventures/pangea-poker/msg166075/#msg166075

Logo for forums
(http://i.imgur.com/b6lFRDv.png)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: Jacinto on November 18, 2014, 08:19:42 am
*monitored*
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: Trinibits on November 18, 2014, 08:40:48 am
Oi oi whats goin on ere boycee?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: Darkhorse on November 18, 2014, 09:14:12 am
Reserving threads.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: BaiMangal on November 18, 2014, 12:10:12 pm
teleport
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: rdanneskjoldr on November 18, 2014, 12:35:28 pm
announcement or service ETA?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: CryptoGuu on November 18, 2014, 12:48:49 pm
The biggest problem is not to develop a poker site, but bring fishes to play there. Without bad players no regulars will come and the regulars are the guys who are brining the money for the poker site when they are 10 tabling +.

I'm really excited about these projects as a professional poker player. Wish you luck and don't forget a huge marketing campaign.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: rdanneskjoldr on November 18, 2014, 12:54:45 pm
With regular poker sites limited player pool by regulations (pokerstars has 30+ countries banned,US included, and separated pools for countries like Spain, France, Italy, etc..  http://www.pokernews.com/news/2014/10/pokerstars-and-full-tilt-poker-withdraw-from-30-countries-19412.htm) and huge rakes to comply with countries requirements,crypto bringing lower rake and international liquidity, + not having to pay taxes on winnings, crypto poker and gambling can bring big adoption of crypto.And this adoption snowball more players to this services. Specially for fishes this is GREAT.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: CryptoGuu on November 18, 2014, 12:58:23 pm
With regular poker sites limited player pool by regulations (pokerstars has 30+ countries banned,US included, and separated pools for countries like Spain, France, Italy, etc..  http://www.pokernews.com/news/2014/10/pokerstars-and-full-tilt-poker-withdraw-from-30-countries-19412.htm) and huge rakes to comply with countries requirements,crypto bringing lower rake and international liquidity, + not having to pay taxes on winnings, crypto poker and gambling can bring big adoption of crypto.And this adoption snowball more players to this services. Specially for fishes this is GREAT.

+1400

don't forget to promote your site on the biggest poker forums. I've told some people there about crypto poker site and they were very interested.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: Stadtfeger on November 18, 2014, 03:16:37 pm
poker players want dollar and euro and don´t nxt ... it´s a hard job...
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: JanSako on November 18, 2014, 05:45:30 pm
That is where Supernet comes in... direct withdrawal to Visa with Coinomat (I think).
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: TwinWinNerD on November 18, 2014, 05:48:15 pm
That is where Supernet comes in... direct withdrawal to Visa with Coinomat (I think).

And soon € deposits and withdrawals ;)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: prometheus on November 18, 2014, 08:47:21 pm
That is where Supernet comes in... direct withdrawal to Visa with Coinomat (I think).

anon cards too...once that comes. though the limit won't be enough for big players, it will be nice for the average user
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: rdanneskjoldr on November 18, 2014, 11:58:19 pm
anon cards too...once that comes. though the limit won't be enough for big players, it will be nice for the average user

That is where real life connections and big holders to buy and sell money comes, once the site is very popular.
That has been done in the past very frequently, when people wanted to deposit into pokerstars or eurosites but didnt have a method to do it comfortably. Frequent winners used this to cash out without losing a cent, and making good relations with people with a lot of money who just wanted to gamble fast. Pokerstars moneytransfer made it easy, but with crypto sending money user to user is even easier.

Even mafias have bought pokerstars$$ to big winners to do whatever (transfer worldwide at 0 cost), and players are happy because they get the cash without paying fees or leaving any track. In some cases they could even get paid something, as you need certain volume played, to have instant transactions without limits nor conversion fees nor transfer fees, so those accounts have value.

Eg. i want to cashout 20k$ in nxt i won playing poker, but dont want to go through btc or coinomat or exchanges... so i give you the nxt to play poker, and you give me the cash in hand. And in a poker festival you can find dozens of persons interested in these trades.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: Djinou94 on November 19, 2014, 02:04:57 am
Reserved
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: TwinWinNerD on November 19, 2014, 02:30:50 am
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=762346.msg9587641#msg9587641
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: e on November 19, 2014, 03:04:50 am
As a poker player and a poker coder, I can't waiting for the detail.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: jl777 on November 19, 2014, 03:33:50 am
As a poker player and a poker coder, I can't waiting for the detail.
valarmg will be coding a Poker API, which will be incorporated into SuperNET. It will provide a decentralized poker capability that the localhost GUI will use.

this is quite a difficult project, so the completion date is not known. I dont think there are any decentralized poker solutions that are released yet. Building on the SuperNET API, a lot of the privacy and payments are already taken care of, so the Pangea team can concentrate on the Poker specific issues.

We already have a GUI dev, hobofife, working on a poker GUI that replicates the look and feel of standard centralized poker sites.

Active discussion in the SuperNET slack's Pangea channel

James
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: _mr_e on November 19, 2014, 03:46:35 am
lol what is the point of this poll.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: e on November 19, 2014, 03:53:46 am
As a poker player and a poker coder, I can't waiting for the detail.
valarmg will be coding a Poker API, which will be incorporated into SuperNET. It will provide a decentralized poker capability that the localhost GUI will use.

this is quite a difficult project, so the completion date is not known. I dont think there are any decentralized poker solutions that are released yet. Building on the SuperNET API, a lot of the privacy and payments are already taken care of, so the Pangea team can concentrate on the Poker specific issues.

We already have a GUI dev, hobofife, working on a poker GUI that replicates the look and feel of standard centralized poker sites.

Active discussion in the SuperNET slack's Pangea channel

James

Ok, Thanks. I'll join the channel. 
I have developed a poker platform by myself many years ago,  and now I refactor it by Prism with MEF, so it will be many independent  modules.
I think I shoud extend my platform using pangea pokerapi, So now I need the pangea poker API details.
Here some screenshot of my poker platform:

Practice in my platform:
(http://eeholdem.com/eepoker/screenshot3.jpg)

Track other poker room in my platform:
(http://eeholdem.com/eepoker/screenshot.jpg)
(http://eeholdem.com/eepoker/screenshot1.jpg)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: Tosch110 on November 19, 2014, 03:56:22 am
Whats the difference in voting 'yes' or 'now'?

edit: e, that looks great! you could bring great additional experience to this project =)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: Darkhorse on November 19, 2014, 03:57:06 am
Whats the difference in voting 'yes' or 'now'?

Thinking the same, prolly meant for "No" instead of "Now".
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: valarmg on November 19, 2014, 04:08:21 am
Hi guys,

I played as an online professional poker player for 6 years to decent success. I'm also an electronic engineer with programming experience and coded the Dividends+ module for NxtServices/superNET. I'm going to be coding Pangea Poker.

There's very little done so far, mainly research and brainstorming ideas. We initially plan to release a heads up client (as an early alpha version) and expand from there.



Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: TwinWinNerD on November 19, 2014, 04:24:10 am
As a former professional pokerplayer I am looking forward to this.

I am very curious, how a decentral RNG will work.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: peggy2jj on November 19, 2014, 04:35:13 am
I voted "now" that meant to deliver dividends NOW.  :P
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: jl777 on November 19, 2014, 04:37:56 am
lol what is the point of this poll.
timing and to see if there is any interest
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on November 19, 2014, 04:50:47 am
Hi all. I'm 5KB, and run my own company, I'll be project lead/business developing/marketing and all things needed for Pangea. I partnered up with jl777, and also valarmg who completes on the things I can't do. to simplify, when I bring the business side, valarmg brings the poker side, in between we meet to create the best product for both the player and the shareholder.

I looked for a GUI developer for the project for about a month, good GUI developers are surprisingly hard to find, and finally found Hobofife, who will do the GUI, he started earlier this month.

I wanted to create something of value within crypto, but never a coin, since I see the market for services as very untapped within crypto, since each time someone has an idea they want to make a coin out of it! so when discussing and becoming interested about decentralized poker, I found that the subject has been around for over a decade, one big problem was how money should be handled, amongst other things. since they didn't have blockchain technology back then, the solution is found here, and with good developers like jl777 and valarmg, we can accomplish it, then make a killer app out of it, enjoyable to play, and in a decentralized structure costs can be held down compared to existing competitors, so it can reflect the rakes positively, allowing to draw in more players, also from countries where govs have clamped down on it. one important thing will be trying to get pokerplayers from outside crypto, to be able to play without having to learn about bitcoin, but that's getting ahead of ourselves!

Anyway, thats a little about me, if anyone feels like they want to contribute or have suggestions, critisism, you can find me in #pangea on supernet slack, or msg me on BCT or here, soon we'll have a little more GUI and other things to discuss and analyze, then I'd like to get as much feedback as possible to get the best possible product, and even if the tech behind it will be cool, bottom line is it has to cater to players, it should just be a easy enjoyable thing to play a couple rounds of poker, so best ways to do this is to adapt to what players want it to be.

also I saw someone inquiring about ETAs or details, soon there'll be a rough estimate once most things are in place and can be somewhat calculated, but I'll keep my lips sealed since we got christmas coming up, but we're transparent so if you stick in Pangea channel you can probably form a good opinion of when it'll be  :)




Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on November 19, 2014, 05:04:36 am

Practice in my platform:
(http://eeholdem.com/eepoker/screenshot3.jpg)

Track other poker room in my platform:
(http://eeholdem.com/eepoker/screenshot.jpg)
(http://eeholdem.com/eepoker/screenshot1.jpg)

Hey! Looks cool. Come on slack, and we'll talk, I think maybe something else can be done with your project, that's not necessarily related to pangea

Valarmg is the guy you look for, he went to bed now, but let's chat in 12 hours or so I will sleep soon too to stay on the same schedule




Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: spiler on November 19, 2014, 08:42:24 am
+ 1440
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: yassin54 on November 19, 2014, 09:25:27 am
reserved
Very nice all for yur work  ;) ;) ;)
Very excited poker decentralized  ;D ;D ;D
Welcome fish  :D :D
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: Cassius on November 19, 2014, 09:50:31 am
Reserved
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: BadAss on November 19, 2014, 12:39:22 pm
Very nice to see this all :)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: apenzl on November 19, 2014, 01:13:17 pm
Absorbed
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: Abraxas 147 on November 19, 2014, 04:09:51 pm
James @slack-pangea channel: "The dividend will happen after we get 100 votes to release the dividend."

Please vote "yes" or "now" for the dividend :-) 42 more votes needed...
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on November 19, 2014, 10:37:09 pm
so some first progress here, with the GUI made by Hobofife, let know what you think thus far, maybe shoot some feedback, personally I love it, the pangea symbol blends in perfectly with the table, although not sure about the avatars right, my reasoning for this maybe pick a set one or have a few of them since it'll be decentralized there's no way to monitor content, and wouldn't want someone using something disgusting as avatar, which can ruin for players around the table, what you think?

youtube.com/watch?v=C1YyatjUp8A

Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: rdanneskjoldr on November 19, 2014, 10:53:36 pm
so some first progress here, with the GUI made by Hobofife, let know what you think thus far, maybe shoot some feedback, personally I love it, the pangea symbol blends in perfectly with the table, although not sure about the avatars right, my reasoning for this maybe pick a set one or have a few of them since it'll be decentralized there's no way to monitor content, and wouldn't want someone using something disgusting as avatar, which can ruin for players around the table, what you think?

youtube.com/watch?v=C1YyatjUp8A

I really like how it looks, but i think everything else (fold call raise button, bet sizes in table, etc..) is needed  to make an opinion.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on November 19, 2014, 11:07:49 pm
so some first progress here, with the GUI made by Hobofife, let know what you think thus far, maybe shoot some feedback, personally I love it, the pangea symbol blends in perfectly with the table, although not sure about the avatars right, my reasoning for this maybe pick a set one or have a few of them since it'll be decentralized there's no way to monitor content, and wouldn't want someone using something disgusting as avatar, which can ruin for players around the table, what you think?

youtube.com/watch?v=C1YyatjUp8A

I really like how it looks, but i think everything else (fold call raise button, bet sizes in table, etc..) is needed  to make an opinion.

Happy to hear you like it thus far, and yeah you're right, we'll have more and more to discuss soon once the pieces starts falling more into place
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: First on November 19, 2014, 11:18:37 pm
I also like the look so far. Going forward i would suggest using the pokerstars client as an example because it is considered by far the best in the poker community.
As a poker player i would strongly advice against betting in cryptos. Adoption will be far easier if you give people what they are used to. (Betting in Usd and Euros)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: jl777 on November 19, 2014, 11:43:03 pm
I also like the look so far. Going forward i would suggest using the pokerstars client as an example because it is considered by far the best in the poker community.
As a poker player i would strongly advice against betting in cryptos. Adoption will be far easier if you give people what they are used to. (Betting in Usd and Euros)
you mean like coinoUSD?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: First on November 19, 2014, 11:51:56 pm
In the video the developer said, that he is not sure in which currency the actual betting on the table would be.
I would suggest it to be in Usd as it is way more convenient for poker pros aswell as recreational players.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: valarmg on November 19, 2014, 11:55:55 pm
I also like the look so far. Going forward i would suggest using the pokerstars client as an example because it is considered by far the best in the poker community.
As a poker player i would strongly advice against betting in cryptos. Adoption will be far easier if you give people what they are used to. (Betting in Usd and Euros)
you mean like coinoUSD?

Interesting idea, though you do run into some centralization problems, plus the expensive Nxt fee to pay.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: jl777 on November 19, 2014, 11:56:12 pm
In the video the developer said, that he is not sure in which currency the actual betting on the table would be.
I would suggest it to be in Usd as it is way more convenient for poker pros aswell as recreational players.
I plan to allow SuperNET users to denominate their transactions/balances in whatever they want to see it in
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: First on November 20, 2014, 12:00:13 am
Sounds like the best solution!
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: valarmg on November 20, 2014, 12:34:22 am
In the video the developer said, that he is not sure in which currency the actual betting on the table would be.
I would suggest it to be in Usd as it is way more convenient for poker pros aswell as recreational players.
I plan to allow SuperNET users to denominate their transactions/balances in whatever they want to see it in

We could denominate the blinds in dollars while using cryptos. So internally, the blinds might be 0.00106/0.00212 bitcoins one day or something slightly different the next day, but in the client we can just denominate in dollars and use the days' exchange rate to convert.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: ThomasVeil on November 20, 2014, 12:33:24 pm
In the video the developer said, that he is not sure in which currency the actual betting on the table would be.
I would suggest it to be in Usd as it is way more convenient for poker pros aswell as recreational players.
I plan to allow SuperNET users to denominate their transactions/balances in whatever they want to see it in

Doesn't that mean that it's really NXT still.... so the price would fluctuate? I'm sure it would put people off seeing their wallet leak dollars.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: jl777 on November 20, 2014, 12:42:07 pm
In the video the developer said, that he is not sure in which currency the actual betting on the table would be.
I would suggest it to be in Usd as it is way more convenient for poker pros aswell as recreational players.
I plan to allow SuperNET users to denominate their transactions/balances in whatever they want to see it in

Doesn't that mean that it's really NXT still.... so the price would fluctuate? I'm sure it would put people off seeing their wallet leak dollars.
if they activate the arbitrage tradebot, hopefully it will be able to maintain fiat value. I think if people can park it in coinoUSD or have some portion "float" and they can control it, it would introduce them to what crypto can do, but still allow the conservative poker players to stay all in fiat
Title: Re: Pangea Poker
Post by: ShawnLeary on November 20, 2014, 11:58:17 pm
As a poker player and a poker coder, I can't waiting for the detail.

+1440
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on November 21, 2014, 01:32:46 am
I set up the Twitter, and will post same updates as here there too for those using it; twitter.com/PangeaPoker
I registered the domain, pangeapoker.net which will be used later, just for downloading the client when released, figured those not accustomed to bct/nxtforums would be more comfortable going there

other stuff, discussed & brainstormed some marketing strategies/rakes in #pangea, but nothing decided upon

also contacted Sergio, author of dc.uba.ar/inv/tesis/licenciatura/2010/lerner and asked if he'd like to do a review once we're done, we'll see, as he's somewhat of an expert in the field his thoughts would be interesting to hear


latest from Tom, our GUI

(http://i.imgur.com/baGEfqy.png)




Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: newsilike on November 21, 2014, 02:12:36 am
Nice GUI ! wow  :D :)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: BitcoinForumator on November 21, 2014, 08:11:18 am
I would suggest that you put all the effort you can into making a really really pretty and fast GUI. There is a big difference between semi-good-looking interface and a great looking interface where everything is speedy. I'm sure most of you know how this works out, but you can go and compare Pokerstars and something like iPoker client. And there are many more poker rooms even worse. The iPoker is really subpar and it's a pain-in-the-ass because it's noticably slower. You just want to close that client and never look back. I think this is a big advantage that Pokerstars has and people tend to flock there.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Mexxer on November 21, 2014, 08:41:58 am
I played a lot of online poker myself a couple of years ago, so I'm really looking forward to this!
I'm mainly a ruby developer, so can't really help on the python side, but I'm really interested in how you will solve the decentralization issue.

I would suggest that you put all the effort you can into making a really really pretty and fast GUI. There is a big difference between semi-good-looking interface and a great looking interface where everything is speedy. I'm sure most of you know how this works out, but you can go and compare Pokerstars and something like iPoker client. And there are many more poker rooms even worse. The iPoker is really subpar and it's a pain-in-the-ass because it's noticably slower. You just want to close that client and never look back. I think this is a big advantage that Pokerstars has and people tend to flock there.

I completely agree!
This is one of the most important aspects after having a lot of fishy players at the tables.

That being said,
the poker stars GUI and the latest pangea GUI, which looks very similiar, always looks to me like something you can throw to together in photoshop in 30 min. (personally I always liked the full tilt GUI the best)
But maybe that's a good thing ... I think it's more about simplicity, speed, and user experience in general. You can still have a simple and fast GUI but if something doesn't feel right while playing, it will drive users away.

PS: You should still work on the round edges between felt and arm rest. It doesn't seem to have the right size and looks a bit distracting.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: sadface on November 21, 2014, 10:06:47 am
full tilt always had the best looks out of the box imo. i used to do a lot of modding back in the day and tilt was the easiest to work with in terms of spacing and image manipulation (svg).
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on November 21, 2014, 01:07:01 pm
Voting is over 100 so dividends will happen at some point today.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: martismartis on November 21, 2014, 01:57:23 pm
Voting is over 100 so dividends will happen at some point today.

Majority voted for "yes", but not for "now". So IMO dividends will not be so fast  ;D
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: jefdiesel on November 21, 2014, 02:01:41 pm
Voting is over 100 so dividends will happen at some point today.

Majority voted for "yes", but not for "now". So IMO dividends will not be so fast  ;D

There was no "yesterday" option, so we were forced to compromise
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Tosch110 on November 21, 2014, 02:37:03 pm
Voting is over 100 so dividends will happen at some point today.

Majority voted for "yes", but not for "now". So IMO dividends will not be so fast  ;D

There was no "yesterday" option, so we were forced to compromise

I thought it was a typo and intended was "no". Maybe I was not the only one voting "yes" for this reason ;)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Mexxer on November 21, 2014, 02:48:00 pm
Voting is over 100 so dividends will happen at some point today.

Majority voted for "yes", but not for "now". So IMO dividends will not be so fast  ;D

There was no "yesterday" option, so we were forced to compromise

I thought it was a typo and intended was "no". Maybe I was not the only one voting "yes" for this reason ;)

Nope you were not the only one ;)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: cr7yp on November 21, 2014, 07:25:54 pm
Can't await to see decentralized pangeo poker. I am a passionate player.  :o
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on November 21, 2014, 07:54:11 pm

That being said,
the poker stars GUI and the latest pangea GUI, which looks very similiar, always looks to me like something you can throw to together in photoshop in 30 min. (personally I always liked the full tilt GUI the best)
But maybe that's a good thing ... I think it's more about simplicity, speed, and user experience in general. You can still have a simple and fast GUI but if something doesn't feel right while playing, it will drive users away.

PS: You should still work on the round edges between felt and arm rest. It doesn't seem to have the right size and looks a bit distracting.


My view when deciding on how I want the GUI to look like: not cluttered, simple neat and just enjoyable. I wanted it to be inspirated by the earlier versions of online poker GUI, since Pangea is some about nostalgia too because everyones allowed to play poker, and soon we'll see the final product!

simplicity is intentional, I just want to create a place where people can easily play poker, but feedback is important since it's the people who will be playing so updates will continue to flow here!
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: CryptoGuu on November 22, 2014, 04:29:50 am
thanks for dividend! What about bter?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: BitcoinForumator on November 22, 2014, 09:00:09 am
thanks for dividend! What about bter?

Yes, what about Bter?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Ludom on November 22, 2014, 09:41:38 am
Ask directly Bter, it's the best way, IMO.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on November 22, 2014, 11:59:03 am
As reported, Pangea dividend paid out to SuperNET and NxtVenture assetholders.

Ask directly Bter, it's the best way, IMO.

I let Bter know a dividend was on the way, so it's up to them to handle it. Probably not automatic, so might have to be patient.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: nxtforum-a on November 22, 2014, 05:34:38 pm
As reported, Pangea dividend paid out to SuperNET and NxtVenture assetholders.
Surely a stupid question, but... : how can pangea distribute a divident though it's not yet running ? And why did I receive a dividend from pangea (as pangea assets) ?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: komputor on November 22, 2014, 05:40:57 pm
As reported, Pangea dividend paid out to SuperNET and NxtVenture assetholders.
Surely a stupid question, but... : how can pangea distribute a divident though it's not yet running ? And why did I receive a dividend from pangea (as pangea assets) ?
Pangea assets were transferred to you as dividends from your ownership of supernet asset. Instead of paying you nxt, they pay you assets of pangea.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: nxtforum-a on November 22, 2014, 07:54:57 pm
Pangea assets were transferred to you as dividends from your ownership of supernet asset. Instead of paying you nxt, they pay you assets of pangea.
Ok ! So this is my first supernet dividends and I'm happy with this :-) Thank you for the answer :-)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: rubenaco on November 22, 2014, 09:15:24 pm
james thanks for the assets, today is my birtday xD.
you are doing a hard work. good luck with all projects, It seems that you are a good person.

regards
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: jl777 on November 22, 2014, 09:17:09 pm
james thanks for the assets, today is my birtday xD.
you are doing a hard work. good luck with all projects, It seems that you are a good person.

regards
happy birthday!
thanks for your kind words, but I am mostly just giving some advices. SuperNET now has over 100 people in slack, with dozens of active contributors. It is much, much more than just me!

James
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: jungian on November 23, 2014, 03:12:30 pm
Is there an ETA for this?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on November 23, 2014, 06:09:40 pm
Is there an ETA for this?

It's a complicated project and only just started so release ETAs are unknown but likely a long way off.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: digicoiner on November 23, 2014, 11:45:49 pm
Will this be linked to Neodice in any way?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: jl777 on November 23, 2014, 11:59:57 pm
Will this be linked to Neodice in any way?
cross selling of one to the other in the GUI. Maybe if you are out of a hand, you could click on dice to play neoDICE, so it is possible for the games to be partially integrated
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: allwelder on November 26, 2014, 07:20:35 am
Thanks the another game asset.
(http://s21.postimg.org/3mgg1w6w5/27d16970fcb4aeaea204ba5181bea7de.jpg)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: e on November 28, 2014, 05:45:52 am
When will the pangea API out?
I will use the pangear API for my PokerGuru Platform.

(http://pokerguru.xyz/d/platform.jpg)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on November 28, 2014, 11:42:42 pm
Hi e,

Your poker guru software looks cool. Does it work with pokerstars/ipoker and with poker tracking software already?

The Pangea API is still a good bit away. We have many things to figure out yet, not to mention all the coding. We'll let you know when we have something workable.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: e on November 30, 2014, 01:22:02 pm
Hi e,

Your poker guru software looks cool. Does it work with pokerstars/ipoker and with poker tracking software already?

The Pangea API is still a good bit away. We have many things to figure out yet, not to mention all the coding. We'll let you know when we have something workable.

Yes, it can track Ipoker. using HtmlDocument Interface from Ipoker's Chat, and Ipoker's Chat with full dealer's imfomation.
Because Pokerstars using special technolgy in the chat. so I cant read it directly. but I can OCR chat using tessract3.
It can track Fulltilt chat before. and now Fulltilt using QT, so I using OCR to track it.
I can easily track micogaming poker.

Track is no problem, But now, The PokerGuru platform software lack of test, so it have many bugs.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: jl777 on December 01, 2014, 10:10:02 pm
progress report on Pangea GUI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1fl39lUiAs

it is only GUI for now

James
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: yassin54 on December 01, 2014, 10:24:12 pm
It is compatible for Pokertracker and holdem-manager?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on December 01, 2014, 11:23:58 pm
It is compatible for Pokertracker and holdem-manager?

It's a long way from that. Possibly making handhistories in a common format would make them easy to be read by the poker trackers.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: TwinWinNerD on December 01, 2014, 11:50:57 pm
It is compatible for Pokertracker and holdem-manager?

It's a long way from that. Possibly making handhistories in a common format would make them easy to be read by the poker trackers.

If you do them in Pokerstars format you can alteast track your stats with all trackers.

Also FPDB can be modified (OS) so that it works with your site, but you would basically need to keep that uptodate yourself then.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: BitcoinForumator on December 02, 2014, 08:44:21 am
Hey Pangea, I like how you made the cards very big on the board in this latest GUI (so many times the cards are too small in poker clients), plus the whole thing looks quite yummy.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: yassin54 on December 02, 2014, 09:42:24 am
It is compatible for Pokertracker and holdem-manager?

It's a long way from that. Possibly making handhistories in a common format would make them easy to be read by the poker trackers.

thanks for answer and good luck for project, it is very nice  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: sadface on December 02, 2014, 10:55:04 am
progress report on Pangea GUI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1fl39lUiAs

it is only GUI for now

James

gui looks a lot better now.

some feedback:
i like face cards, but the ones that are in there aren't working. there is no need for a two indexes in online play. top left corner is enough and it needs to be way bigger, specially for the board. hole cards should at least optionally be full face view, which will make proper 4 color decks possible. if you make the table color switchable, do so for the carpet. i'd much rather see complete third party modability, including moving table elements.
bet sizes should be next to the pots, not below the player boxes imo. make the dealer button bigger.
it's probably because it's not finished yet, but i don't see the players stacks when you see your holecards. that would be a big no go. players need to know their stack size.

how are the seats going to be arranged at a 6 max table? will the players sit randomly based on the 9 seat positions or will there be a 6 max order (must have imo)?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on December 02, 2014, 05:41:16 pm

gui looks a lot better now.

some feedback:
i like face cards, but the ones that are in there aren't working. there is no need for a two indexes in online play. top left corner is enough and it needs to be way bigger, specially for the board. hole cards should at least optionally be full face view, which will make proper 4 color decks possible. if you make the table color switchable, do so for the carpet. i'd much rather see complete third party modability, including moving table elements.
bet sizes should be next to the pots, not below the player boxes imo. make the dealer button bigger.
it's probably because it's not finished yet, but i don't see the players stacks when you see your holecards. that would be a big no go. players need to know their stack size.

how are the seats going to be arranged at a 6 max table? will the players sit randomly based on the 9 seat positions or will there be a 6 max order (must have imo)?
Response from Hobofife, our GUI:

well, I agree with being able to switch the carpet color and complete third party modability (eventually). Those are not real issues though. Carpet color is as simple as editing the bg image, and once the API is complete, anyone who wants to can create their own UI using the API
"top left corner is enough... optionally be full face view, which will make proper 4 color decks possible"
- which one is it? I haven't seen any screenshots of board cards with only the top left corner, but I have seen hole cards like that
I understand wanting the bet sizes next to the pots, but it looks messy with the bet size labels in the middle of the table
"i don't see the players stacks when you see your holecards. that would be a big no go. players need to know their stack size."
- Stack size is always clearly visible in the top left corner of the chat box, next to the amount to call
From the feedback: I will make an option to use larger board cards (same dimensions, but zoomed in on the top left corner)

some more input:
tell him thanks for the suggestions and we'll make an option for larger board cards
and that once the API is complete, modding the layout is not a big deal for 3rd parties

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: sadface on December 02, 2014, 06:47:57 pm
Quote
Response from Hobofife, our GUI:

well, I agree with being able to switch the carpet color and complete third party modability (eventually). Those are not real issues though. Carpet color is as simple as editing the bg image, and once the API is complete, anyone who wants to can create their own UI using the API
"top left corner is enough... optionally be full face view, which will make proper 4 color decks possible"
- which one is it? I haven't seen any screenshots of board cards with only the top left corner, but I have seen hole cards like that

imo an index(numbers and letters) only needs to be in the top left corner, not flipped and bottom right.
e.g. this (not my work):
(https://d13yacurqjgara.cloudfront.net/users/26863/screenshots/1254652/chips_shot.png)

full face hole cards would make the app more multi table grinder friendly. they would make cards like these possible (888 default 4 color deck iirc):
(http://www.apptrawler.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/888poker-1.jpg)

Quote
I understand wanting the bet sizes next to the pots, but it looks messy with the bet size labels in the middle of the table

i pretty much played on every software that is on the market today and i never got used to that. might just be me tho, idk.

Quote
"i don't see the players stacks when you see your holecards. that would be a big no go. players need to know their stack size."
- Stack size is always clearly visible in the top left corner of the chat box, next to the amount to call

ok i see that now. maybe one can get used to that, but from the get go that would not work for me.

Quote
From the feedback: I will make an option to use larger board cards (same dimensions, but zoomed in on the top left corner)

will work. i would still rethink the concept you're currently using for the seats and the cards.

Quote
some more input:
tell him thanks for the suggestions and we'll make an option for larger board cards
and that once the API is complete, modding the layout is not a big deal for 3rd parties

good. i used to run a modding site, maybe ill work on something then :)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: hobofife on December 02, 2014, 07:24:35 pm
Hey sadface.

Thanks for the suggestions. As far as the cards... it is as simple as pointing to a different directory of images to let the players switch between decks. At the moment I'm just using some open source images I bookmarked a few years ago. I'm willing to create alternate decks, add in decks that other provide, and allow the user to specify their own deck. For right now, I'm focused on making the GUI actually work, and I'll come back to final design details at the end.

I definitely support players being able to fully mod the interface... it's just HTML/CSS, so there's really nothing to it. When the time comes, I'll be happy to release all of the scaffolding code I used to generate the layout.

I don't see any hole cards in the 888 screen shot. Can you post a screen shot showing what you mean, maybe it will give me some ideas. Unfortunately, any design involves trade-offs, it's impossible to get everything into 800x600 pixels.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: TwinWinNerD on December 02, 2014, 07:55:53 pm
As a former pokerplayer and grinder:
- Please add 4 colored really simplistic board and hole cards
- I don't care for chips, make them optional and just display the amount in chips/$
- Make all sounds optional
- make all chat optional
- Please add customizable betsize buttons.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: sadface on December 02, 2014, 08:06:56 pm
hey!

here is an example on how the hole cards look like with 'full faces'

edit: you can also see customized bet size buttons above the slider (what twinwinnerd mentioned)

(http://pkrmod.com/uploads/posts/2013-04/1364938695_2013-04-03_033547.png)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: ThomasVeil on December 02, 2014, 08:41:59 pm
I have no clue about online poker... but looks damn nice if you ask me!
Good job.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: hobofife on December 02, 2014, 10:36:16 pm
As a former pokerplayer and grinder:
- Please add 4 colored really simplistic board and hole cards
- I don't care for chips, make them optional and just display the amount in chips/$
- Make all sounds optional
- make all chat optional
- Please add customizable betsize buttons.

Sure, that sounds reasonable. You want to be able to turn off dealer chat too?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: TwinWinNerD on December 02, 2014, 10:42:23 pm
As a former pokerplayer and grinder:
- Please add 4 colored really simplistic board and hole cards
- I don't care for chips, make them optional and just display the amount in chips/$
- Make all sounds optional
- make all chat optional
- Please add customizable betsize buttons.

Sure, that sounds reasonable. You want to be able to turn off dealer chat too?
Basically that is the most important chat disable feature. I can look up history in the hand histories, no need to spam in the chat. (all grinders instantly disable dealer chat)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: asenski on December 04, 2014, 04:53:52 am
Hello! First post here.

I am very new to NXT. Just recently got some SuperNET. Am I too late to the party here for the 7.5% distribution?

Thanks in advance for helping the uninitiated like myself.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: jl777 on December 04, 2014, 05:02:35 am
Hello! First post here.

I am very new to NXT. Just recently got some SuperNET. Am I too late to the party here for the 7.5% distribution?

Thanks in advance for helping the uninitiated like myself.
Too late for Pangea, but in time for SkyNET
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: asenski on December 04, 2014, 05:19:03 am
Too late for Pangea, but in time for SkyNET

Is there a road map maintained anywhere of past/upcoming projects? Where is the core team communicating if one wants to look for opportunities?
Is that on slack? How can one get invited?

Thank you!
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: jl777 on December 04, 2014, 06:38:52 am
Too late for Pangea, but in time for SkyNET

Is there a road map maintained anywhere of past/upcoming projects? Where is the core team communicating if one wants to look for opportunities?
Is that on slack? How can one get invited?

Thank you!
just PM me an email address so I can have an invite sent out
it can be a temp address, you just need to get the slack email once
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: LeChatNoir on December 06, 2014, 01:35:18 pm
Was any of you successful at obtaining PANGEA dividend from BTER?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on December 06, 2014, 01:56:41 pm
Was any of you succesfull at obtaining PANGEA dividend from BTER?

No, but there's another dividend going out soon, and bter has promised to handle that, so they might do them both at the same time.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on December 07, 2014, 08:59:26 pm
Holders of Unity on BTER should now have received their Pangea

twitter.com/btercom/status/541696271015084032
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: CryptoGuu on December 07, 2014, 10:03:44 pm
they didn't used the old stats to distrubute. I lost 6k NXT didn't received for 2000 SuperNETs the dividend.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Tosch110 on December 07, 2014, 10:13:50 pm
they didn't used the old stats to distrubute. I lost 6k NXT didn't received for 2000 SuperNETs the dividend.

did they wait with the dividend but still enabled trading..?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: sadface on December 11, 2014, 08:47:22 am
any updates on the gui?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on December 11, 2014, 05:04:00 pm
any updates on the gui?

Hobofife will make video later on the updates of GUI. I'll post it here when I get it! He told me it might be today, but let's say sometime this weekend to be sure.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: sadface on December 12, 2014, 01:02:58 pm
thats good.
unless you have more to show i don't think you need to make a video every time when there are some gui changes. screenshots would suffice.
is there a more active discussion regarding pangea taking place somewhere?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on December 12, 2014, 05:02:24 pm
thats good.
unless you have more to show i don't think you need to make a video every time when there are some gui changes. screenshots would suffice.
is there a more active discussion regarding pangea taking place somewhere?

well Hobofife has done plenty to show, and Hobofife enjoys doing them and I enjoy watching them, he explains thoroughly and in a simple manner what he's done which I really like!
I will post the video later, but sure I can print the best parts so people can see which way they prefer.
You can join #Pangea on supernet slack, pm Noashh or jl777 your email and they will invite you. Slack is similar to irc, and very neat to use.
Discussion there the last couple days been mostly regarding Hobofife's work, since Valar and his brother is busy on the code.
some logs are here http://104.236.15.119:8086/logs/pangea/latest but for some reason just a very tiny bit of them, so I'd suggest you'd join if you want to chat a bit about it, since the supernet slack grown so big we can't scroll up on msgs (10k msg limit.)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on December 13, 2014, 06:14:04 pm
Update on GUI from Tom, we are getting there one step closer at a time!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwc9kQUoSNA (short ver.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rULrkZFuBBE (long ver.)


I'll post a few screenshots here later for those who rather see just that. Happy saturday!
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: themi8 on December 13, 2014, 06:56:49 pm
Update on GUI from Tom, we are getting there one step closer at a time!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwc9kQUoSNA (short ver.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rULrkZFuBBE (long ver.)


I'll post a few screenshots here later for those who rather see just that. Happy saturday!
Impressive work
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on December 15, 2014, 05:24:19 pm
Pangea Poker recently listed on CMC, at 9th place in the assets section! http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on December 30, 2014, 06:01:32 am
currently away on vacation, but was notified about the latest developments on the Pangea GUI from Tom. Good stuff, as always!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lk0OBKi3tc (quick.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq4bWxCYr5c (longer.)


Happy new years everyone!
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: BadAss on December 30, 2014, 08:18:10 pm
Pangea for the win :)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Tosch110 on January 04, 2015, 01:00:43 am
currently away on vacation, but was notified about the latest developments on the Pangea GUI from Tom. Good stuff, as always!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lk0OBKi3tc (quick.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq4bWxCYr5c (longer.)


Happy new years everyone!

looks great!
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: nxtjack on January 06, 2015, 11:41:41 pm
Hi,

What currency is going to be used for the pokergames on PANGEA, NXT or PANGEA?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on January 06, 2015, 11:53:42 pm
Hi,

What currency is going to be used for the pokergames on PANGEA, NXT or PANGEA?

The currency isn't yet decided. We are still investigating options.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Windjc on January 07, 2015, 09:48:29 am
Hi,

What currency is going to be used for the pokergames on PANGEA, NXT or PANGEA?

The currency isn't yet decided. We are still investigating options.

You should use SN as the currency, imo.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Ludom on January 07, 2015, 09:52:21 am

And what about a special currency created with the monetary system ?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on January 07, 2015, 10:09:27 am
All Nxt assets and currencies suffer from Nxt's high transaction fees. Say each poker hand has 10 transactions on average. At 2 cent per transaction, that's 20cent per hand, or 20 dollars per hundred hands.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Ludom on January 07, 2015, 10:25:02 am
True, we need to lower the transaction fees.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: nxtjack on January 07, 2015, 10:54:13 am
All Nxt assets and currencies suffer from Nxt's high transaction fees. Say each poker hand has 10 transactions on average. At 2 cent per transaction, that's 20cent per hand, or 20 dollars per hundred hands.

Ah, yes, that's a HUGE problem. Being a pokerplayer myself, I understand the problem. To get the action going in the small stakes, $0,20 rake a hand is not the right way. Cannot the pokerhand been played on some other kind of new created network/platform (maybe I say something really strange, not technical guy), where  only a player pays 1 NXT when there is a difference in stacksize before and after the hand.
Imagine before the hand;

Player A; 100 NXT
Player B 100 NXT
Player C 100 NXT
Player D 100 NXT.

After the hand;

Player A 50 NXT
Player B 150 NXT
Player C 100 NXT
Player D 100 NXT

In this situation, players A and B have to pay 1 NXT.

Another solution could be that the NXT network measures the amount of NXT made on PANGEA, gives back a percentage to PANGEA. Now PANGEA uses the NXT they got back from the NXT network for rakeback to the players.

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: natty on January 07, 2015, 11:35:19 am
All Nxt assets and currencies suffer from Nxt's high transaction fees. Say each poker hand has 10 transactions on average. At 2 cent per transaction, that's 20cent per hand, or 20 dollars per hundred hands.

You should fork NXT to NXT Poker chips separate network of a few nodes and sell the chips on the NXT platform at AE or MS, redeemable back to NXT like any casino. Fees could be kept close to zero on the forked NXT Poker chips platform. Customers only pay the NXT network fees when they buy or sell chips to play.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on January 08, 2015, 08:35:19 pm
how do you guys feel about this logo, made by Eth.


(http://i.imgur.com/Jv1WKvI.png)



personally I like it, at first we went at it with the SN theme, as such: (http://i.imgur.com/cV8YVoX.png)

but I like the color red as it is the colour of luck, and we have black theme in the GUI so red/black feels like a good path
but nothing is settled yet! I feel the spades for a logo might be a bit overplayed, but on the other hand it associates well with Poker

we discussed other things, like making the logo like a 6/6 table, each letter of pangea resembling a chair, but didnt end up looking good so we left that
I'm open to discussion/feedback whether people like this one, or if someone feels it should be slightly modified in a certain way, or have another cool idea
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: m30188 on January 08, 2015, 08:52:15 pm
I love it!
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: hobofife on January 08, 2015, 08:53:32 pm
I'm into it. I don't understand the vertical line extending all the way to the "o" in "poker", but I think the logo looks really good.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: yassin54 on January 08, 2015, 08:53:43 pm
Very nice black and red  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: nxtjack on January 09, 2015, 01:08:07 am
Very nice logo, like the orange one more.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Darkhorse on January 09, 2015, 01:13:31 am
Loving the logo!
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: sadface on January 09, 2015, 09:14:47 am
is there a specific concept behind the logo? maybe work with what pangea is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangaea) ?

the logo has a classy touch with the font, but i'm getting a 'lawyer business card vibe' from it.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: nxtjack on January 09, 2015, 10:36:39 am
Let me introduce myself first a bit. I have been a professional gambler for 30 years now and playing poker for the last 15 years.
With my background it's very logical that I am interested in a project like this and of course I already bought some PANGEA.
But some questions remain.
First of course the situation on the rake part, discussed earlier this week. How is PANGEA going to function without the players having to pay 1 NXT on every action?
Then a very important question is; is there already a team abvailable that is going to run the pokerroom? Oversseeing the whole development of online poker from Mike Caro's planetpoker to what it is today, it's pretty obvious that the succes of an online pokerroom is the result of the performance of the team behind it.
Many online pokerrooms came and lost because there was 1 site that did everything better; Pokerstars.
Actually I hope to see, a team behind PANGEA that likes to run the pokerroom taking Pokerstars as an example.
I am talking about;
Excellent and quick support.
Smooth working software.
Changing currency against very low costs.
Guaranteed tournaments, very important, because action in cashgames is becoming less and less.
What about software like holdemmanager, are we able to use it or not?
Maybe contracting some "PANGEA-PRO'S" who help to promote, play everyday and get paid in some kind of way.
Rakeback system.
FPP rewards.
Promotional actions, some extra coins on first deposit...etc.

What I mean to say is, that just developing a pokerroom without further intentions might be too less of an effort to get the job done.

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on January 09, 2015, 12:59:13 pm
Let me introduce myself first a bit. I have been a professional gambler for 30 years now and playing poker for the last 15 years.
With my background it's very logical that I am interested in a project like this and of course I already bought some PANGEA.
But some questions remain.
First of course the situation on the rake part, discussed earlier this week. How is PANGEA going to function without the players having to pay 1 NXT on every action?

Thanks for your questions. How Pangea functions without paying 1NXT is most likely by not running on the Nxt blockchain. Now which blockchain it runs on is another question, and there are various options that we are investigating. This is still early in the development of this product, and various technical challenges remain.

Then a very important question is; is there already a team abvailable that is going to run the pokerroom? Oversseeing the whole development of online poker from Mike Caro's planetpoker to what it is today, it's pretty obvious that the succes of an online pokerroom is the result of the performance of the team behind it.
Many online pokerrooms came and lost because there was 1 site that did everything better; Pokerstars.
Actually I hope to see, a team behind PANGEA that likes to run the pokerroom taking Pokerstars as an example.
I am talking about;
Excellent and quick support.
Smooth working software.
Changing currency against very low costs.
Guaranteed tournaments, very important, because action in cashgames is becoming less and less.
What about software like holdemmanager, are we able to use it or not?
Maybe contracting some "PANGEA-PRO'S" who help to promote, play everyday and get paid in some kind of way.
Rakeback system.
FPP rewards.
Promotional actions, some extra coins on first deposit...etc.

What I mean to say is, that just developing a pokerroom without further intentions might be too less of an effort to get the job done.

I understand your concerns. I was a professional poker player myself for 6 years or so and know that the game playing software is just a fraction of what it takes to get a good pokerroom up and running.

In a decentralized environment, we have to think about issues such as you've mentioned in a different way. Pokerstars is the gold standard, but Pangea will be a different animal. It will undoubtedly be worse in some ways, hopefully be better in others.

I have a number of ideas of how it could work out well in terms of most of what you mentioned, but we have to solve the technical challenges first, so that we know what is possible and what isn't in our decentralized solution. There's no point working out a fantastic rewards system now, then finding out in 6 months time that it won't fit into the final technical solution.

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: nxtjack on January 09, 2015, 03:09:38 pm
Let me introduce myself first a bit. I have been a professional gambler for 30 years now and playing poker for the last 15 years.
With my background it's very logical that I am interested in a project like this and of course I already bought some PANGEA.
But some questions remain.
First of course the situation on the rake part, discussed earlier this week. How is PANGEA going to function without the players having to pay 1 NXT on every action?

Thanks for your questions. How Pangea functions without paying 1NXT is most likely by not running on the Nxt blockchain. Now which blockchain it runs on is another question, and there are various options that we are investigating. This is still early in the development of this product, and various technical challenges remain.

Then a very important question is; is there already a team abvailable that is going to run the pokerroom? Oversseeing the whole development of online poker from Mike Caro's planetpoker to what it is today, it's pretty obvious that the succes of an online pokerroom is the result of the performance of the team behind it.
Many online pokerrooms came and lost because there was 1 site that did everything better; Pokerstars.
Actually I hope to see, a team behind PANGEA that likes to run the pokerroom taking Pokerstars as an example.
I am talking about;
Excellent and quick support.
Smooth working software.
Changing currency against very low costs.
Guaranteed tournaments, very important, because action in cashgames is becoming less and less.
What about software like holdemmanager, are we able to use it or not?
Maybe contracting some "PANGEA-PRO'S" who help to promote, play everyday and get paid in some kind of way.
Rakeback system.
FPP rewards.
Promotional actions, some extra coins on first deposit...etc.

What I mean to say is, that just developing a pokerroom without further intentions might be too less of an effort to get the job done.

I understand your concerns. I was a professional poker player myself for 6 years or so and know that the game playing software is just a fraction of what it takes to get a good pokerroom up and running.

In a decentralized environment, we have to think about issues such as you've mentioned in a different way. Pokerstars is the gold standard, but Pangea will be a different animal. It will undoubtedly be worse in some ways, hopefully be better in others.

I have a number of ideas of how it could work out well in terms of most of what you mentioned, but we have to solve the technical challenges first, so that we know what is possible and what isn't in our decentralized solution. There's no point working out a fantastic rewards system now, then finding out in 6 months time that it won't fit into the final technical solution.

Thanks a lot for the all info.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on January 09, 2015, 06:59:34 pm
so new day, and Eth has been at work and sent me 2 new logos that we have to take into consideration now! one of them, with the pangea touch, I wonder what people not familiar with the continent think they are looking at? also, another clean version, thoughts versus the older ones?

(http://i.imgur.com/HCT8Syx.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/0xPgLng.png)


Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Cassius on January 09, 2015, 07:02:07 pm
They will say, 'Who is that dude outlined in red and why does he have such a big nose?' :)
Actually I like this concept a lot but it's not the best version of Pangea (borrowed from wikipedia).
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: BitcoinForumator on January 09, 2015, 07:05:42 pm
I saw a Pinochio right away too. But both look awesome, you can make a good case for both.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on January 09, 2015, 07:07:42 pm
They will say, 'Who is that dude outlined in red and why does he have such a big nose?' :)
Actually I like this concept a lot but it's not the best version of Pangea (borrowed from wikipedia).

There are 7 faces embedded in that image. See if you can spot them all.

...

Only joking.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: BitcoinForumator on January 09, 2015, 07:10:12 pm
I can find 34. Not joking.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Cassius on January 09, 2015, 07:44:12 pm
I found Wally!
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Ludom on January 09, 2015, 11:41:06 pm
Pangea is Alien
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Djinou94 on January 10, 2015, 01:52:18 am
Pangea had big balls
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on January 18, 2015, 03:28:36 pm
Quick update.

I got a poker engine that will deal hands working. This works in a centralized manner, but as a early stage, we'll probably hook up the GUI to a centralized dealer to get all the kinks worked out.
Code: [Select]
Pangea Poker Game #793422 , 1/2 Holdem NoLimit - 2015-01-16 21:46:43
Seat 1: Kirk (12)
Seat 2: Spock (17)
Seat 3: KHAAANNNN!!! (100)
Seat 4: Redshirt 2 (40)
Seat 5:
Seat 6: Redshirt 1 (100)
Kirk posts small blind 1
Spock posts big blind 2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Kirk [7c 3s]
Dealt to Spock [Jh Js]
Dealt to KHAAANNNN!!! [2d Qs]
Dealt to Redshirt 2 [Qh 6d]
Dealt to Redshirt 1 [4c 2s]
KHAAANNNN!!!:  raises 7 to 7
Redshirt 2: folds
Redshirt 1: calls 7
Kirk: calls 6
Spock: calls 5
*** FLOP *** [6c 3d 4s]
Kirk: checks
Spock: checks
KHAAANNNN!!!: bets 14
Redshirt 1: calls 14
Kirk: calls 5 and is all-in
Spock: calls 10 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [6c 3d 4s] [Tc]
KHAAANNNN!!!: bets 35
Redshirt 1: folds
Uncalled bet (35) returned to KHAAANNNN!!!
*** RIVER *** [6c 3d 4s] [Tc] [As]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
KHAAANNNN!!!: shows [2d Qs] (High Card)
KHAAANNNN!!!: collected 8.0 from side pot-2
Spock: shows [Jh Js] (Pair)
Spock: collected 15.0 from side pot-1
Kirk: shows [7c 3s] (Pair)
Spock: collected 48.0 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 71
Board [6c 3d 4s Tc As]
Seat 1: Kirk (small blind) showed [7c 3s] and lost with (Pair)
Seat 2: Spock (big blind) showed [Jh Js] and won (63.0) with (Pair)
Seat 3: KHAAANNNN!!! showed [2d Qs] and won (8.0) with (High Card)
Seat 4: Redshirt 2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5:
Seat 6: Redshirt 1 (button) folded on the Turn

The poker engine will produce handhistories as it deals as above, and I have it running through a simple sit and go until only 1 player has money left, giving players simple actions.

So the basic poker operations are progressing well. We still need to figure out some of the core decentralization issues.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: DesertWind on January 19, 2015, 12:38:23 am
Let me introduce myself first a bit. I have been a professional gambler for 30 years now and playing poker for the last 15 years.
With my background it's very logical that I am interested in a project like this and of course I already bought some PANGEA.
But some questions remain.
First of course the situation on the rake part, discussed earlier this week. How is PANGEA going to function without the players having to pay 1 NXT on every action?

Thanks for your questions. How Pangea functions without paying 1NXT is most likely by not running on the Nxt blockchain. Now which blockchain it runs on is another question, and there are various options that we are investigating. This is still early in the development of this product, and various technical challenges remain.

Then a very important question is; is there already a team abvailable that is going to run the pokerroom? Oversseeing the whole development of online poker from Mike Caro's planetpoker to what it is today, it's pretty obvious that the succes of an online pokerroom is the result of the performance of the team behind it.
Many online pokerrooms came and lost because there was 1 site that did everything better; Pokerstars.
Actually I hope to see, a team behind PANGEA that likes to run the pokerroom taking Pokerstars as an example.
I am talking about;
Excellent and quick support.
Smooth working software.
Changing currency against very low costs.
Guaranteed tournaments, very important, because action in cashgames is becoming less and less.
What about software like holdemmanager, are we able to use it or not?
Maybe contracting some "PANGEA-PRO'S" who help to promote, play everyday and get paid in some kind of way.
Rakeback system.
FPP rewards.
Promotional actions, some extra coins on first deposit...etc.

What I mean to say is, that just developing a pokerroom without further intentions might be too less of an effort to get the job done.

In a decentralized environment, we have to think about issues such as you've mentioned in a different way.
Pokerstars is the gold standard... but Pangea will be a different animal.

With all due respect to the Pros who have been doing "traditional poker" well for decades...
We need "extreme outside the box thinking" on how to develop a poker game tailored for p2p.

We can't start with the "Pokerstars experience"... and shoehorn it into blockchain/p2p...
There is no elegant way to eliminate collusion with the same people sitting at the same table for hours.

Poker evolved when it came online... and poker must evolve again to succeed p2p.

Go to 2+2... virtually everyone hates what passes for online poker today versus 10 years ago...
There is a big window to for radical change... IMO, nothing less will go viral.  :)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: sadface on January 19, 2015, 08:20:56 am
Quote
There is no elegant way to eliminate collusion with the same people sitting at the same table for hours.

completely anonymous play & no table selection is the only way to try and tackle this decentralized. take a look at bodog e.g.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on January 23, 2015, 08:27:16 am
Final features of the PangeaPoker GUI, and probably the last video update, great work as always by Hobofife!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzhd2_WH-eE
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: nxtjack on January 24, 2015, 02:58:06 pm
Hi,

in the NXT wallet is not much action on PANGEA. I am willing to sell 1000 PANGEA. If someone is interested we could negotiate the price and the transaction in the NXT exchange
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: hobofife on January 25, 2015, 12:43:44 am
As a former pokerplayer and grinder:
- Please add 4 colored really simplistic board and hole cards
- I don't care for chips, make them optional and just display the amount in chips/$
- Make all sounds optional
- make all chat optional
- Please add customizable betsize buttons.

hey!

here is an example on how the hole cards look like with 'full faces'

edit: you can also see customized bet size buttons above the slider (what twinwinnerd mentioned)

Hey guys, I don't know if you checked out the most recent video, but hopefully but I considered your feedback. There are now options to hide chips, hide chat, and set customizable bet buttons using both percentages and actual amounts. Adding your own deck is very simple and if anyone has a deck they'd like me to add just point me to it.

I've enjoyed working on the frontend for this project, and now I'm going to help out a little bit on the backend when I have time. Thanks to everyone that watched the videos and contributed feedback.

I'm going to create some screenshots next week, I'll post them here.

Thanks!
Tom
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: sadface on January 25, 2015, 08:06:08 am
hey,

i like it more now. i think i mentioned before i used to run a poker modding site and something i have been asked for over and over again for sites like ongame are full face cards. maybe you purposely don't want to cater to regulars, i'm not sure.
something you imo still must add is a 6 max layout! its not a fundamental change and its indutry standard.

when pangea is ready ill make a couple of card decks. i still have my old mods laying around.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: TNxt on January 29, 2015, 04:11:31 pm
Hi, I'm new so maybe this is a stupid question, is there any idea when Pangea will launch?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on January 29, 2015, 04:37:05 pm
Hi, I'm new so maybe this is a stupid question, is there any idea when Pangea will launch?

Uncertain, but most likely in several months time.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on February 03, 2015, 08:16:53 pm
so we're in the final stages of deciding between these two logos, what do you think? work made by Eth.


(http://i.imgur.com/ExELmro.png?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/bnhjM3m.png?1)


I'm currently leaning towards the second smaller one, it looks good and differs some compared to most poker logos we're seeing out there
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: chanc3r on February 03, 2015, 08:24:53 pm
bottom right
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Nippybrit on February 03, 2015, 08:54:06 pm
One vote for the one on the right side.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 03, 2015, 09:13:41 pm
Seems to be a choice between 3 logos. Anyway, I like the bottom left worst.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: ricky.scribz on February 03, 2015, 09:42:41 pm
I like the top and bottom right, easy on the eyes
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: yassin54 on February 03, 2015, 10:01:07 pm
bottom right
me too  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: LooTz on February 03, 2015, 10:52:20 pm
top, very simple
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: TorrnA on February 04, 2015, 02:41:17 am
I like the top one its a good simple design. The bottom right is also a good design with its poker chip circle outline. The left ones outer design is too big.  I think you could use both top and the bottom right designs just in different situations. Maybe leading with the top one (face of pangea) is a good idea for its simplicity but the other one can be used elsewhere such as in-game somewhere or for advertising. Nice work. Can't wait to play.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Phönix on February 04, 2015, 08:33:10 am
I like the top one its a good simple design. The bottom right is also a good design with its poker chip circle outline. The left ones outer design is too big.  I think you could use both top and the bottom right designs just in different situations. Maybe leading with the top one (face of pangea) is a good idea for its simplicity but the other one can be used elsewhere such as in-game somewhere or for advertising. Nice work. Can't wait to play.

Yes !
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: ThomasVeil on February 04, 2015, 11:03:16 am
top, very simple

...and memorable.
+1
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: mnporter2001 on February 04, 2015, 10:37:38 pm
What is the latest on this project ?

Do we have a go live date ?

Cheers
Mark
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 04, 2015, 10:45:11 pm
What is the latest on this project ?

Do we have a go live date ?

Cheers
Mark

Latest plans are to release a playmoney standalone version for testing purposes in the middle of March. Then, we plan to integrate into superNET and have a realmoney release in May/June.

The initial real money release will be semi-decentralized, and as we improve the software, we hope to fully decentralize.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: mnporter2001 on February 04, 2015, 11:15:09 pm
What is the latest on this project ?

Do we have a go live date ?

Cheers
Mark

Latest plans are to release a playmoney standalone version for testing purposes in the middle of March. Then, we plan to integrate into superNET and have a realmoney release in May/June.

The initial real money release will be semi-decentralized, and as we improve the software, we hope to fully decentralize.

Excellent and thanks for the answer, I'm considering increasing my holdings which was the reason for the questions

Thanks
Mark
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: z8gaby8z on February 06, 2015, 11:47:31 am
Hello all!
This is the poker side of me speaking. I played poker, mostly Hold'em on more than 5 websites for at least 6 years. From my experience I can say that the poker client should offer 32card draw poker and Telesina(please read about this).
Telesina is a popular variant of Five Card Stud. Instead of playing with a 52 card deck only 32 cards are used in Telesina. Playing with thirty two cards is considered a French deck. Also, the typical hand ranks vary greatly compared to games like Texas Holdem.

There are 3 elements on why this is a must have game in Pangea Poker:
1. There are a few sites offering this game and a lot of players that don't know where to play this game;
2. There is a big amount of rake generated because there are 5 rounds of betting (most of all are bet pot);
3. The game offers a lot of satisfaction (fun+earning fast cash).

I hope this is an achievable objective. What do you think?

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 06, 2015, 11:53:42 am
Hello all!
This is the poker side of me speaking. I played poker, mostly Hold'em on more than 5 websites for at least 6 years. From my experience I can say that the poker client should offer 32card draw poker and Telesina(please read about this).
Telesina is a popular variant of Five Card Stud. Instead of playing with a 52 card deck only 32 cards are used in Telesina. Playing with thirty two cards is considered a French deck. Also, the typical hand ranks vary greatly compared to games like Texas Holdem.

There are 3 elements on why this is a must have game in Pangea Poker:
1. There are a few sites offering this game and a lot of players that don't know where to play this game;
2. There is a big amount of rake generated because there are 5 rounds of betting (most of all are bet pot);
3. The game offers a lot of satisfaction (fun+earning fast cash).

I hope this is an achievable objective. What do you think?

Pangea will concentrate solely on Texas Holdem initially. Further down the line, we may consider additional games, but it isn't a priority.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Windjc on February 07, 2015, 09:01:19 am
What is the latest on this project ?

Do we have a go live date ?

Cheers
Mark

Latest plans are to release a playmoney standalone version for testing purposes in the middle of March. Then, we plan to integrate into superNET and have a realmoney release in May/June.

The initial real money release will be semi-decentralized, and as we improve the software, we hope to fully decentralize.

Excellent and thanks for the answer, I'm considering increasing my holdings which was the reason for the questions

Thanks
Mark

What the plans for marketing Pangea?  Such a huge market out there - but such a challenge to reach the critical mass to make it attractive to players (especially given they have to learn about and navigate crypto or SuperNet just to play). This needs some real marketing firepower behind it, in my opinion.

Love to know what is the plan outside of development. Cheers.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on February 07, 2015, 10:39:57 am

What the plans for marketing Pangea?  Such a huge market out there - but such a challenge to reach the critical mass to make it attractive to players (especially given they have to learn about and navigate crypto or SuperNet just to play). This needs some real marketing firepower behind it, in my opinion.

Love to know what is the plan outside of development. Cheers.

most of it still up for discussion, and plans will be released in due time.
I agree that the market for poker is huge but that userbase within crypto is limited. thus there must be simple ways for fiatpeople to play without necessarily knowing the underlying technology, which in bitcoins current form sadly most of the time they have to. I say this because simplifying things is critical for reaching mass adoption. if the unsubstantiated rumours about PS thinking about BTC payment would come to be true, it would also help all of crypto gambling

that being said, crypto userbase is prio number one and where we'll see adoption first, and then try to grow from there. trying to penetrate the fiatmarket will have to come later. a big factor to gain legitimacy in peoples eyes is simply uptime. to show it's stable, reliable, and enjoyable.

another vision I have for BTC finding it's place and grow in value is generally speaking just for APPs built that are better than fiat equivalents. and I honestly believe gambling in crypto will be huge mostly because in many cases even a copy of a betting site would in theory work better than the fiat equivalent both for customers and company, I say in theory because BTC market need time to mature, become easier to use, and popular gateways between exchanging fiat to crypto and vice versa needs to stop slapping on hidden fees taking away one of the biggest advantage of using it over other payment systems


also I realize this little wall of text contains little to none content, just mostly for you to figure out my mindset. to put it deliberately vague for now, we got plans for how to best treat other crypto communities, how to utilize social medias using things like Thunderclap, and also a self sustaining way of marketing (yet to be revealed). what we still need to discuss is how bonuses, referrals, tournaments etc will work. I'll speak more in depth in all these areas when the time is right and things fully decided


Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Windjc on February 07, 2015, 09:42:25 pm

What the plans for marketing Pangea?  Such a huge market out there - but such a challenge to reach the critical mass to make it attractive to players (especially given they have to learn about and navigate crypto or SuperNet just to play). This needs some real marketing firepower behind it, in my opinion.

Love to know what is the plan outside of development. Cheers.

most of it still up for discussion, and plans will be released in due time.
I agree that the market for poker is huge but that userbase within crypto is limited. thus there must be simple ways for fiatpeople to play without necessarily knowing the underlying technology, which in bitcoins current form sadly most of the time they have to. I say this because simplifying things is critical for reaching mass adoption. if the unsubstantiated rumours about PS thinking about BTC payment would come to be true, it would also help all of crypto gambling

that being said, crypto userbase is prio number one and where we'll see adoption first, and then try to grow from there. trying to penetrate the fiatmarket will have to come later. a big factor to gain legitimacy in peoples eyes is simply uptime. to show it's stable, reliable, and enjoyable.

another vision I have for BTC finding it's place and grow in value is generally speaking just for APPs built that are better than fiat equivalents. and I honestly believe gambling in crypto will be huge mostly because in many cases even a copy of a betting site would in theory work better than the fiat equivalent both for customers and company, I say in theory because BTC market need time to mature, become easier to use, and popular gateways between exchanging fiat to crypto and vice versa needs to stop slapping on hidden fees taking away one of the biggest advantage of using it over other payment systems


also I realize this little wall of text contains little to none content, just mostly for you to figure out my mindset. to put it deliberately vague for now, we got plans for how to best treat other crypto communities, how to utilize social medias using things like Thunderclap, and also a self sustaining way of marketing (yet to be revealed). what we still need to discuss is how bonuses, referrals, tournaments etc will work. I'll speak more in depth in all these areas when the time is right and things fully decided

As someone who owned an online poker site in the early 2000's in Costa Rica, I can only say that more than uptime, bonuses, tournaments, and everything else, the #1 most important thing is # of tables, games and activity of play.  Reaching critical mass is the Catch 22 in the poker industry. Online casinos are different - you are playing against your computer screen, doesn't matter how many other people are involved. Poker is all about the other players - how many they are, how good they are, how much money there is to make there - that is what determines if the existing online players will spend time on a new site.

Obviously the US fiat market is dying for an online poker alternative. That void WILL be filled by someone. But it will take aggressive effort in my opinion.

In my opinion, making it easy for fiat players to play is a MUST. I assume that is priority #1, because without that, any amount of marketing to non-crypto players is a waste of time. However, if you solve the issue of finding an easy way for US fiat players to play, then you have a shot at real mass - with the right marketing strategy - aggressive and unrelenting.

If you are only targeting the crypto community at first - which I guess is the right move especially as you fine tune your product (because it has to be kick ass for the fiat world), I am curious as to how big of a poker room you feel you can grow within that community?  I am curious if you have tangible milestones you are developing as far as player acquisition and how many games you want running consecutively. I say consecutively, because, again, its all about players and games, and if someone comes to your site and there is no action, there is a good chance that they will not return.

You may want to consider having players that play rake free but agree to play at the tables during certain time slots so that you have games running around the clock for the first several months as you build you up your user base. If you would like to discuss more strategies and tactics feel free to PM me. I did this for a living once upon a time.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: allbits on February 07, 2015, 11:11:37 pm
Pangea should be rake free at all times for everyone.  It should be analagous to people privately getting together in their own room.  All they need is the p2p client and each other.  Pangea's revenue model should be small amount of fee based on some other variable, not rake.

End game should be to get a specialized client that makes it easy to find and connect with other players running the client, and makes it easy to get fiat into and out of the system at a low cost.

Marketing should be word of mouth.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Windjc on February 08, 2015, 01:37:56 am
Pangea should be rake free at all times for everyone.  It should be analagous to people privately getting together in their own room.  All they need is the p2p client and each other.  Pangea's revenue model should be small amount of fee based on some other variable, not rake.

End game should be to get a specialized client that makes it easy to find and connect with other players running the client, and makes it easy to get fiat into and out of the system at a low cost.

Marketing should be word of mouth.

I see absolutely no reason Pangea shouldnt take rake. They can offer free rake or reduced rake for promotions, marketing, heads up rake free, etc., but online poker players expect to pay rake. What is this "small fee based on some other variable" mean? Do you have any working example of this concept? Certainly its not a membership fee or a fee to purchase coins?

And how exactly will word of mouth only marketing get real games going 24/7?  Are there enough words and mouths for this?  Online poker is not a field of dreams. Just because you build it, they will not just come.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: allbits on February 08, 2015, 04:55:01 am
Interesting discussion here.  Some big names in it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1487.0
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on February 08, 2015, 06:30:00 am
As someone who owned an online poker site in the early 2000's in Costa Rica, I can only say that more than uptime, bonuses, tournaments, and everything else, the #1 most important thing is # of tables, games and activity of play.  Reaching critical mass is the Catch 22 in the poker industry. Online casinos are different - you are playing against your computer screen, doesn't matter how many other people are involved. Poker is all about the other players - how many they are, how good they are, how much money there is to make there - that is what determines if the existing online players will spend time on a new site.

Obviously the US fiat market is dying for an online poker alternative. That void WILL be filled by someone. But it will take aggressive effort in my opinion.

In my opinion, making it easy for fiat players to play is a MUST. I assume that is priority #1, because without that, any amount of marketing to non-crypto players is a waste of time. However, if you solve the issue of finding an easy way for US fiat players to play, then you have a shot at real mass - with the right marketing strategy - aggressive and unrelenting.

If you are only targeting the crypto community at first - which I guess is the right move especially as you fine tune your product (because it has to be kick ass for the fiat world), I am curious as to how big of a poker room you feel you can grow within that community?  I am curious if you have tangible milestones you are developing as far as player acquisition and how many games you want running consecutively. I say consecutively, because, again, its all about players and games, and if someone comes to your site and there is no action, there is a good chance that they will not return.

You may want to consider having players that play rake free but agree to play at the tables during certain time slots so that you have games running around the clock for the first several months as you build you up your user base. If you would like to discuss more strategies and tactics feel free to PM me. I did this for a living once upon a time.

yep, goes without saying getting players and having activity is a must, without it all else does not matter. that being said, when I say uptime I simply mean it brings legitimacy, just the way Bitcoin does. as we're a venture inevitably related to Bitcoin, we face some of the hurdles Bitcoin does aswell, which is legitimacy. a lot of the unitiated whom play with fiat still have the mindset of- "oh, that thing, isnt it dead?" "I heard some early people got rich" "isnt it illegal?" and it'll take some time to get rid of that way of thinking. also the whole thing about Bitcoin still fluctuating like crazy, people whom play and win only to have BTC dropping 5% when they wish to cashout, and then being slapped by hidden fees from exchanges or lbtc vendors, it's a problem regardless how you spin the rakes. so uptime is crucial aswell, I would say not only for Pangea but the currency we all use here. for the people using bitcoin on the regular it is shrugged off since they believe the tech, but for gamblers whom only want to play a couple hands here and there and don't care for its future its a different story.

as for where cap goes for cryptoplayers, the userbase whom we target at first, judging by other sites in the same industry I'd say between 500-1k in 3-6 months and 2500 after 6-12. that being said, they've not gone down the path we intend to, so it is a different animal, thus the ballpark is widely thought. it'll be easier to be sure what we can and cannot do once we see what we have to work with and how Pangea is perceived. also straightening out the software during this time to be top notch so that when we feel when we're at a point fiatmarketing makes sense, then we will. like I said, it is purely speculative but I believe it is an untapped market, else I would not be willing to pour my soul into it, especially if succesfully made very simple for everyone to play a couple hands then that opens a lot of doors


so I agree with the notion of making it easy for fiatplayers to play without knowing underlying tech and is something we'll work with, for this to work and be widely succesful we must break out of crypto and simply be a place to play Poker, just like any other site isnt defined by their use of USD, also since userbase is limited here, but we start here at first so when we got full confidence in product, we push it.
we face the same obstacles as other crypto related products do which is fresh customers to try it out and become regulars, one edge we have here is this will be something they understand. I make no secret that it'll be tough, or that we have a ironclad plan on how to do this since we're pioneering the field thus no previous modules are to work with however I do have a couple of traditional plans on how to do this which requires some legwork I'm willing to put in, plans which are not written in stone since I am confident that in time all the talented developers in this space will have come up with better solutions/made it easier for people to exchange fiat to BTC so we can work with that, seeing that it is a crucial step for mass adoption for the industry as a whole. either way, we will have to fight for it but I'm fully confident Poker/other gambling things are amongst the top apps for which BTC will find it's place so it's something I am willing to go out on a limb for


sure your expertise is highly welcome and I look forward to bounce off a couple ideas, I pm'd you on slack




Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on February 08, 2015, 06:36:54 am
Pangea should be rake free at all times for everyone.  It should be analagous to people privately getting together in their own room.  All they need is the p2p client and each other.  Pangea's revenue model should be small amount of fee based on some other variable, not rake.

End game should be to get a specialized client that makes it easy to find and connect with other players running the client, and makes it easy to get fiat into and out of the system at a low cost.

Marketing should be word of mouth.

Rake free is not something we consider. No need to change the existing succesful modules too much. Also, wouldn't you feel cheated if it were marketed as something rake free only to step in to find out we charge something else instead? Feels like the "Same, same but different."
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Windjc on February 08, 2015, 08:48:04 am
Pangea should be rake free at all times for everyone.  It should be analagous to people privately getting together in their own room.  All they need is the p2p client and each other.  Pangea's revenue model should be small amount of fee based on some other variable, not rake.

End game should be to get a specialized client that makes it easy to find and connect with other players running the client, and makes it easy to get fiat into and out of the system at a low cost.

Marketing should be word of mouth.

Rake free is not something we consider. No need to change the existing succesful modules too much. Also, wouldn't you feel cheated if it were marketed as something rake free only to step in to find out we charge something else instead? Feels like the "Same, same but different."

+1
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on February 08, 2015, 05:00:03 pm
Pangea should be rake free at all times for everyone.  It should be analagous to people privately getting together in their own room.  All they need is the p2p client and each other.  Pangea's revenue model should be small amount of fee based on some other variable, not rake.

End game should be to get a specialized client that makes it easy to find and connect with other players running the client, and makes it easy to get fiat into and out of the system at a low cost.

Marketing should be word of mouth.

Rake free is not something we consider. No need to change the existing succesful modules too much. Also, wouldn't you feel cheated if it were marketed as something rake free only to step in to find out we charge something else instead? Feels like the "Same, same but different."

But will it be cheaper? Will the rake be lower than on regular sites?

As of now we've only briefly discussed it aswell as taken a few different opinions into consideration, because other things are currently more urgent on the to-do list

Just scratching on the surface of it all, I have two different thoughts: We'll have lower outgoing costs than fiat equivalents thus rakes should be lower (1). or should that percentage still stay as simply more fuel towards the ecosystem? (2). There's some thinking to be had, one thing for certain is that not everyone will be happy with the decision judging by how radically different it is viewed, so just have to see what will fit for Pangea. In general it's tough to form a sound opinion regarding it because mostly players think like players, but forget the companies, and vice versa.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: allbits on February 08, 2015, 09:56:21 pm
Will Pangea be open source?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 09, 2015, 01:19:17 pm
Regarding making it easier to use fiat, and getting users, I'm hoping that Pangea being part of superNET will help. If superNET gains lots of users for other applications, then that should give Pangea a headstart.

With services such as coinomat+coinomal, plus InstantDex, I'm hoping that superNET will help to make the fiat->Pangea step relatively easy.

For Marketing, initially we'll concentrate on crypto players/SuperNET users, and hoping that word of mouth will bring enough to get started. Large scale marketing is obviously something we can't consider initially, plus there's no point until the site and the fiat bridge is polished.

I don't think we can plan too far ahead in terms of how we are going to market this, because technical challenges in terms of decentralization means that this will be different from just opening a normal site. I am hoping that the idea of decentralized poker will mean lots of free press.


But will it be cheaper? Will the rake be lower than on regular sites?

Yes, I believe that rake should be lower than on regular sites, especially at lower stakes. We haven't looked into exact figures yet.

Will Pangea be open source?

Yes.

So possibly a rake free alternative could copy the Pangea software. However, they wouldn't be in superNET, plus wouldn't have any money to spend on improving their service or player base. Rake free poker sites have been tried before and failed.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: allbits on February 09, 2015, 07:25:54 pm
... technical challenges in terms of decentralization means that this will be different from just opening a normal site. I am hoping that the idea of decentralized poker will mean lots of free press.

Indeed, such a development, properly implemented, would bring lots of free press.  It's a problem that was been considered by many good minds for a long time.  And there is currently no road map for a solution based on currently available tech, as far as I know.  That was clearly evident on the slack chat this morning with CfB and JL777.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 09, 2015, 08:10:32 pm
... technical challenges in terms of decentralization means that this will be different from just opening a normal site. I am hoping that the idea of decentralized poker will mean lots of free press.

Indeed, such a development, properly implemented, would bring lots of free press.  It's a problem that was been considered by many good minds for a long time.  And there is currently no road map for a solution based on currently available tech, as far as I know.  That was clearly evident on the slack chat this morning with CfB and JL777.

Pangea has a roadmap. CfB and Jl777 were discussing different possible implementations of dice poker, I believe. Some of the issues are similar, but probably not exactly the same as what Pangea faces.

We expect to release a semi-decentralized solution in May/June, and present our plans for going fully decentralized at that point.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: jl777 on February 09, 2015, 08:11:03 pm
... technical challenges in terms of decentralization means that this will be different from just opening a normal site. I am hoping that the idea of decentralized poker will mean lots of free press.

Indeed, such a development, properly implemented, would bring lots of free press.  It's a problem that was been considered by many good minds for a long time.  And there is currently no road map for a solution based on currently available tech, as far as I know.  That was clearly evident on the slack chat this morning with CfB and JL777.
you misunderstood the slack chat. that was about dice poker, not pangea
and as I stated in the slack, pangea has a road map for a solution.

James
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: allbits on February 09, 2015, 08:15:17 pm
I do not believe that I misunderstood the slack chat.

Dice Poker is an easier problem than Texas Hold'em.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 09, 2015, 08:35:59 pm
I do not believe that I misunderstood the slack chat.

Dice Poker is an easier problem than Texas Hold'em.

There's no grand, "this is the solution to decentralized poker". (Or if there is, I don't know it.) Instead, there are various options we have explored and discussed, and from that, we have come up with a solution for Pangea that seems feasible.

CfB and jl777 were discussing dice poker and brainstorming various ideas. Maybe dice poker calls for a simpler solution that won't suit us. Or maybe CfB will come up with a brilliant idea that will work for Pangea too, and we'll use that instead of our current plan.

We do have a plan though.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Cryptosi on February 14, 2015, 11:06:34 am
I don't understand how it's 'Decentralised' poker, if you have a rake? Entities which want to shut this project down, will simply shut you guys down right? I have no experience in running poker sites, but I agree that this is one of the greatest uses for crypto and i an ever devolving world, p2p poker will fit nicely, but surely the revenue model has to be looked at? wherever all this rake goes will essentially be the centralisation of this poker 'site'? Who knows what legal implications would arise for having clients in certain countries? I've seen a few of the youtube videos and really am excited for this project though, also seen pangea poker up to 45th in coinmarket cap. Keep up the Great work guys!!
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 14, 2015, 11:29:18 am
I don't understand how it's 'Decentralised' poker, if you have a rake?

Bitcoin miners are decentralized and they make bitcoin fees, right? Nxt forgers are decentralized and they make Nxt fees. Maidsafe are trying to develop a decentralized system where people can earn fees by renting out computing power/storage to the network.

I don't see why decentralized means no rake. Pangea will be semi decentralized initially, but I don't see rake preventing full decentralization. We might need to use smart contracts, but we'll solve those issues when we come to them.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: DesertWind on February 14, 2015, 08:13:05 pm
Quote
There is no elegant way to eliminate collusion with the same people sitting at the same table for hours.

completely anonymous play & no table selection is the only way to try and tackle this decentralized. take a look at bodog e.g.

4 months and 182 posts... and mine is the only one to use the word "collusion"...
It's the equivalent to launching an alt with no thought given to security and exploits...
This entire project is a non-starter unless you host difficult-to-collude games, so you are down to:

(i)  head-to-head

(ii) rush type poker where you changes tables every x hands (and need 100s of players)

(iii) multi-level tournaments (and you need 100s of players)   

Notice you have to reach "critical mass" for (ii) and (iii) before you can do anything about collusion. Chicken meet egg.

The other possibilities are :

(1)  Other or new variations of poker tailored for p2p (Texas HE was pretty obscure before online poker)

(2)  An actual technological breakthrough in this area.

(3)  Using bots to "disperse" players... and I mean ABC bots that play very average poker and are EV NEUTRAL...
You can even launch the site with 1,000 or 1,000,000 bots that are easy to beat...
A player siting down always displaces a bot...
Eventually you reach a steady state of, say, 50% bots...
With the bots calibrated to win ZERO chips long run...
So the winnings of both good nor bad players are UNAFFECTED long run...
But it's MUCH more difficult for 2 confederates to play and cheat at the same table.

You would have to run a lot of simulation... and mathematically quantify the "collusion security" of your network.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 14, 2015, 08:27:26 pm
How much of an edge does collusion give in 6-max texas holdem poker? Personally, I think the edge is tiny, and that it's not  something to worry about. What if the edge that could be gained from collusion was less than the extra rake paid in a centralized site?

There isn't huge policing for this in centralized sites because the effect is so small. There was a game called Double or Nothing (DoN) offered on Stars. This game allows a large edge in collusion, and guess what, huge collusion rings were formed (mainly in China, I believe). Not sure how much money the rings made but it took Stars a while to shut them down. They no longer offer that game.

I think that poker bots is a bigger problem than collusion.

Anyway, we do have plans to combat both bots and collusion. Whether our ideas will work or not--we'll just have to build Pangea and see.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: rdanneskjoldr on February 14, 2015, 09:16:06 pm
I think having some rake is mandatory, though it must be much lower than fiat sites.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: DesertWind on February 15, 2015, 01:17:52 am
How much of an edge does collusion give in 6-max texas holdem poker? Personally, I think the edge is tiny, and that it's not  something to worry about. What if the edge that could be gained from collusion was less than the extra rake paid in a centralized site?

There isn't huge policing for this in centralized sites because the effect is so small. There was a game called Double or Nothing (DoN) offered on Stars. This game allows a large edge in collusion, and guess what, huge collusion rings were formed (mainly in China, I believe). Not sure how much money the rings made but it took Stars a while to shut them down. They no longer offer that game.

I think that poker bots is a bigger problem than collusion.

Anyway, we do have plans to combat both bots and collusion. Whether our ideas will work or not--we'll just have to build Pangea and see.

2 people colluding in 6-max is roughly like:

(a)  being dealt 2 hands, you play the stronger one, fold the other

(b)  but you have to pay more blinds

(c)  plus there all kinds of complex synergies where 2 confederates extract money from people

It's a massive edge, 10-15%. You could write a book.

It's the reason p2p poker does not exist (or is a tiny speck)...
Pangea will have to produce a Whitepaper explaining how they have controlled collusion... and to what degree...
Exactly the way Devs write Whitepapers on PoS algos to argue that they are secure.

And, please, let's stop the comparisons to PokerStars, etc where you have one account linked to a credit card.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, I got some basic stats... because I used to play a lot 5-6 years ago, but not anymore.

Here via Poker Scout you can see that traditional "cash ring games" are, at best, 20% of players...
The other 80% are playing either SNGs or multi-level SNG tourneys (like 180 man SNGs).
And of the 20% cash ring games about 1/3 are "rush" or "fast fold" type (resistant to collusion).

http://www.pokerscout.com/

Here in this article it estimates...
That in 2012 PokerStars would have as many as 225,000 SNG and SNG Tourney players at once.

http://www.sitandgoplanet.com/multitable/mtt_guide/Pokerstars_180_SNGs_Part1.html

So the obvious way for Pangea to go is to focus on large SNG tourneys...
Which are super-addictive and super-lucrative for the house (and beatable by elite players).

And maybe provide "fast fold" cash ring games for a change of pace...
But "traditional" ring games comprise only 10-15% of the market... and cannot be adapted for p2p without collusion issues.

If you pick off even 1-2% of the SNG Tourney market you are talking millions.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: DesertWind on February 15, 2015, 06:15:41 pm
I can legally play poker in Canada...

This is where PokerStars does 80% of their volume...
In countless variations of Sit n' Go Tourneys...
This one is the popular "180 man" which starts with 20 tables x 9 players...
And plays down to a Final Table and a winner.

Rake is always around 9%... I could see p2p rake at 2-3%...
Collusion is difficult because players are moved to new tables whenever someone busts.

These tourneys can be tweaked in countless ways to adapt to p2p.

(http://i.imgur.com/IzZh2EE.png)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on February 20, 2015, 09:36:59 pm
Hello folks, I am new here. I have been involved in cryptopoker for 8 months. I have held some NXT for 6 months but don't know much about it (unfortunately it is trapped in BTER at the moment.)

Based on other cryptocurrency poker websites, ranging from Pinkcoin Poker to Pokershibes to Betcoin; This project could either maintain 5-25 regular players during evenings and limp along with small returns and no massive immigration of players, or it could attract a few thousand and thrive. Unfortunately the former is significantly more likely for a few reasons.

1. If the average Joe poker player gives up a few minutes into researching it because they don't feel like following all the required steps (create and verify circle.com account, buy bitcoin, transfer bitcoin to an exchange, purchase NXT, send to another exchange, save address, etc.)

2. Stagnant player pool: You need to be overly-active in social media, offer referral dividends, offer an experience so satisfying that word of mouth attracts players, post in forums and subreddits, put some banner ads on targeted sites like twoplustwo.

3. Clunky or derivative software: as previous posters said, you need to think way outside the box & produce a smooth and polished client.


I'm going to purchase some shares of Pangea, I will increase my holdings if the price drops or if you guys continue to produce results and remain active on youtube etc.

I stream poker on twitch.tv/natmccoy with about 80 followers. After the site is up, if there is action I'll stream it for many hours and add my own action to the site. I would also be happy to bring the admin or dev over for some 'interviews' and discuss progress and ideas for the site.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 20, 2015, 10:03:39 pm
Hello folks, I am new here. I have been involved in cryptopoker for 8 months. I have held some NXT for 6 months but don't know much about it (unfortunately it is trapped in BTER at the moment.)

Based on other cryptocurrency poker websites, ranging from Pinkcoin Poker to Pokershibes to Betcoin; This project could either maintain 5-25 regular players during evenings and limp along with small returns and no massive immigration of players, or it could attract a few thousand and thrive. Unfortunately the former is significantly more likely for a few reasons.

1. If the average Joe poker player gives up a few minutes into researching it because they don't feel like following all the required steps (create and verify circle.com account, buy bitcoin, transfer bitcoin to an exchange, purchase NXT, send to another exchange, save address, etc.)

2. Stagnant player pool: You need to be overly-active in social media, offer referral dividends, offer an experience so satisfying that word of mouth attracts players, post in forums and subreddits, put some banner ads on targeted sites like twoplustwo.

3. Clunky or derivative software: as previous posters said, you need to think way outside the box & produce a smooth and polished client.


I'm going to purchase some shares of Pangea, I will increase my holdings if the price drops or if you guys continue to produce results and remain active on youtube etc.

I stream poker on twitch.tv/natmccoy with about 80 followers. After the site is up, if there is action I'll stream it for many hours and add my own action to the site. I would also be happy to bring the admin or dev over for some 'interviews' and discuss progress and ideas for the site.

Thanks for the feedback and support. Hopefully we can exceed your expectations.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 21, 2015, 09:51:18 am
Just reading a thread about seals with clubs shutting down (to be replaced by SwCpoker with the same chairman but based in a different country).
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/seals-clubs-shutting-down-1512542/

You only need an email to sign up. Some people find that great (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=46167005&postcount=20). Others found it shady (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=46168945&postcount=32).

Seems they would have no stronger provisions to prevent, say, collusion than a decentralized site, but that hasn't stopped it. I wonder will they require ID in the new site, I'm thinking they won't.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: TwinWinNerD on February 21, 2015, 04:48:14 pm
But they were able to block and freeze accounts of proven collidors. That isn't possible with decentralised poker, right?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 21, 2015, 05:13:22 pm
But they were able to block and freeze accounts of proven collidors. That isn't possible with decentralised poker, right?

Why couldn't the colluders just get new email addresses and open up new accounts? Did they block the IPs? They confiscated funds of suspected colluders?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: TwinWinNerD on February 21, 2015, 05:44:36 pm
But they were able to block and freeze accounts of proven collidors. That isn't possible with decentralised poker, right?

Why couldn't the colluders just get new email addresses and open up new accounts? Did they block the IPs? They confiscated funds of suspected colluders?

They could have. But many got caught red handed and their accounts frozen. Keeping accounts was profitable because of their VIP system
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: nxtjack on February 22, 2015, 01:28:05 am
Cashgames are drying up everywhere. I think PANGEA should try to concentrate on tournaments, then the collusion aspect disappears also a bit.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on February 22, 2015, 02:54:52 am
Cashgames are drying up everywhere. I think PANGEA should try to concentrate on tournaments, then the collusion aspect disappears also a bit.

I would not say that. The vast majority of play on Seals with Clubs was in cash games. Cash games also provide much more volume, and thus rake.

I think what is important to start with is a more concentrated approach. All of the cryptopoker sites try to provide a hundred options: a different micro-stakes tournament every 30 minutes, limit, no-limit hold'em, PLO, PLO8 for every possible stake. It's good to have options, but the result is a cluttered list of completely empty tables and tournaments that don't meet the minimum player counts. They should start with several featured tournaments every day and a few different stakes of NLHE cash tables. Concentrate the player pool into a few games to provide consistent action while the site grows, then expand the options according to demand.

I'll be here a lot now btw, let's keep this discussion going :p
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on February 22, 2015, 02:25:46 pm
Bear with me for a bit, I don't really understand NXT or superNET and have some questions.

How were the initial 'units' of Pangea purchased? Was it like an ICO where the devs received the funds? If so, what was the initial price?

If I purchase say, 100 Pangea at secureae.com where do I store them and how will I receive future dividends?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Peter2516 on February 22, 2015, 04:56:13 pm

If I purchase say, 100 Pangea at secureae.com where do I store them and how will I receive future dividends?

The assets will be in your NXT account that's created when you create a login at secureae.com. Dividends will end up in that NXT account as well.
You can also download the NXT (or the SuperNET) client to run on your computer and access the NXT account from the client. The client has a built-in Asset Exchange that's the same as secureae.com, different interface. Of course it's possible to transfer assets or NXT to another account.

http://www.nxtinfo.org/guides-reviews/guides/asset-exchange/

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 22, 2015, 07:37:19 pm
Cashgames are drying up everywhere. I think PANGEA should try to concentrate on tournaments, then the collusion aspect disappears also a bit.

I would not say that. The vast majority of play on Seals with Clubs was in cash games. Cash games also provide much more volume, and thus rake.

I think what is important to start with is a more concentrated approach. All of the cryptopoker sites try to provide a hundred options: a different micro-stakes tournament every 30 minutes, limit, no-limit hold'em, PLO, PLO8 for every possible stake. It's good to have options, but the result is a cluttered list of completely empty tables and tournaments that don't meet the minimum player counts. They should start with several featured tournaments every day and a few different stakes of NLHE cash tables. Concentrate the player pool into a few games to provide consistent action while the site grows, then expand the options according to demand.

I'll be here a lot now btw, let's keep this discussion going :p

Yes, we plan on starting with just cash games and limited types of games to keep them full, and start to expand from there.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 22, 2015, 07:58:42 pm
Bear with me for a bit, I don't really understand NXT or superNET and have some questions.

How were the initial 'units' of Pangea purchased? Was it like an ICO where the devs received the funds? If so, what was the initial price?

If I purchase say, 100 Pangea at secureae.com where do I store them and how will I receive future dividends?

Most units of Pangea are still controlled by the Pangea leads (myself, 5000bitcoins) or are inside superNET/controlled by jl777. Initially 7.5% of Pangea shares were distributed to superNET holders, and 7.5% of Pangea shares were distributed to holders of NxtVenture in return for initial funding. There was no initial price set, we just let the shareholders of the NxtVenture/superNET who received shares set the price. Those 15% of shares make up the bulk of shares currently trading. Some more shares will be sold off as time goes by to raise funds, and some shares will be distributed to those who are working on the Pangea project, as we use the shares to build the project. We intend to hold onto the majority of shares for now, because we are confident that the price and demand will be higher once we have made releases.

As explained by Peter, secureae will create a Nxt wallet for you for assets. You can move those to another Nxt wallet if you are worried about the secureae security. Dividends are automatically sent to the Nxt wallet that holds the shares.

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 22, 2015, 09:09:32 pm
What happened to SealswithClubs explained:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=46176395&postcount=77 (text summary in post below)

Doesn't look to be a good idea to be a public face of a bitcoin poker site and live in the States.

Edit: article about the above video (http://calvinayre.com/2015/02/22/business/sealswithclubs-bryan-micon-raided-by-nevada-regulators/)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on February 26, 2015, 05:08:50 am
What are you currently working on valarmg?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 26, 2015, 09:22:48 am
What are you currently working on valarmg?

We are working on building a standalone test client using playmoney for betting. This will allow us to make sure that everything is working smoothly from a players point of view at an early stage of development. Hope to get that standalone client released before end of March.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 26, 2015, 03:38:58 pm
Good post about the rise of bots in online poker, and the sites unwillingness to discuss them.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/botting-microgaming-refund-incoming-1514010/
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Caracalla on February 28, 2015, 12:15:15 pm
I am looking forward to joining the revolution and testing the client playmoney but it seems actually impossible to create an account, isn't it?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 28, 2015, 12:58:14 pm
I am looking forward to joining the revolution and testing the client playmoney but it seems actually impossible to create an account, isn't it?

Create an account where? We haven't released any software yet.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Caracalla on February 28, 2015, 01:04:27 pm
Was talking about pangeapoker.net, but apparently it's impossible for the moment. Couldn't wait more :)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on February 28, 2015, 01:15:32 pm
Was talking about pangeapoker.net, but apparently it's impossible for the moment. Couldn't wait more :)

That's just an image and a few links at the moment. We haven't built a proper website, and certainly haven't linked it to any poker software yet. Patience, grasshopper :-) .
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on February 28, 2015, 05:29:05 pm
Pangea withdrawals were just enabled on Bter, go get your shares out of there folks.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on March 02, 2015, 06:37:21 pm
Logo update
Quick update regarding the official Pangea Poker logo, which has now been finalized, work done by Eth:

(http://i.imgur.com/FKnUkQz.png)

And also in different size if you'd like to use for forums:

(http://i.imgur.com/b6lFRDv.png)

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on March 10, 2015, 08:22:32 am
No posts for 8 days. Who here is following this thread?

I'm excited to try out the test-phase with non-value chips and offer feedback. Hoping it's ready by April.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on March 10, 2015, 11:02:21 am
No posts for 8 days. Who here is following this thread?

I'm excited to try out the test-phase with non-value chips and offer feedback. Hoping it's ready by April.

Development is ongoing in the background. Not much to report right now. Public activity should increase after the initial release, and at that point enthusiastic testers will become invaluable.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on March 11, 2015, 06:11:43 pm
No posts for 8 days. Who here is following this thread?

I'm excited to try out the test-phase with non-value chips and offer feedback. Hoping it's ready by April.

Indeed it's a bit quiet, but as Valarmg says, coding behind the scenes isn't all that thrilling to show. We've not really released any updates since 22th of January so I expect people will start to look back in the thread when we're scheduled to release the test version and try it out. And then we can put the word out, more things to talk about when there's a client out.

I am also extremely excited over test-phase coming up. We've worked on this project since November and since I am no coder, the test version will make all the work become real from 0 to 100 and I think for most people it is the same. To say I am excited would be a gross understatement.

Anyway to give some sort of update regarding the code, we are now integrating code with the GUI, late March or early April all depends on how smooth that will go. Then there are other preparations such as getting familiar with journalists and social media presence, aswell as preparing a webpage to give a few examples. But all these things barely deserve a quick mentioning in pass by until we've released something substantial to put our money where our mouths are.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: DesertWind on March 13, 2015, 01:21:04 am
What happened to SealswithClubs explained:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=46176395&postcount=77 (text summary in post below)

Doesn't look to be a good idea to be a public face of a bitcoin poker site and live in the States.

Edit: article about the above video (http://calvinayre.com/2015/02/22/business/sealswithclubs-bryan-micon-raided-by-nevada-regulators/)

I finally found some traffic stats for SWC from Poker Scout circa spring 2014...
So they were averaging 100-150 players at any given time mostly playing micro stakes.

This sounds low, but with 2.5% rake that is roughly $1.00/player/hour...
So that is $1.00 * 125 * 24 * 365 = $1,000,000/year.

That should be Pangea's initial goal...
But you could surpass that BY FAR by attracting more players and bigger money players.

SWC was a pretty crappy sight... and PokerStars is your real competition.

(http://i.imgur.com/V1dRKvs.png)

Also, here's 36 reviews for SWC:

http://www.pokerscout.com/AllReviews.aspx?id=1773&pg=1

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on March 13, 2015, 03:43:31 am
Excellent post DesertWind. I've been doing my own back-of-the-napkin calculations when considering this investment, what price I plan to enter at and how much I will invest. Initially it would seem that the current $450,000 market cap is so high simply because not all of the shares have been released, but it is not an unreasonable figure. The reason it could be considered overvalued is because no actual client has been revealed and the crypto world is so rich with failures. The people behind this project seem very attentive and trustworthy so far though, I think it will be a matter of how much they can push the envelope with their coding abilities and creativity.

Pokerstars will not be their primary competitor unless they truly produce slick and groundbreaking software with low rake and get real global attention. Even if they manage that, for the first 1-2 years their primary competitors will be: swcpoker.eu, betcoin.ag, nitrogensports.eu and pokershibes.eu. Most poker players around the world do not even know about cryptocurrency poker, so the players on these sites are a relatively select group. We will initially be competing with those sites for that small group of ~1,000-5,000 total players.

It is indeed interesting how micro-stakes play an unusually dominant role in cryptopoker. $200 buy-in cash games are the ubiquitous 'low-stakes' option in casinos and poker rooms around the world, however even on betcoin and swcpoker at peak hours any table above ~$50-$100 will just have solitary sharks sitting at HU tables waiting for victims. If this site is able to attract even 50 or so regulars to play $200 ring games then the revenue will be substantial, however I predict that it will be stuck with micro-stakes for at least several months.

Question: As explained on page 10, 15% of the shares have been released. If I invest in superNET or NXTventures will I be able to receive future shares of Pangea when they are released? Or will the remaining shares be released in a different manner? (such as being sold directly to the devs as valarmg implied)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on March 13, 2015, 09:25:26 am

Question: As explained on page 10, 15% of the shares have been released. If I invest in superNET or NXTventures will I be able to receive future shares of Pangea when they are released? Or will the remaining shares be released in a different manner? (such as being sold directly to the devs as valarmg implied)

I guess it was badly explained. All shares have been released. The 500K-ish market cap is relating to 100% of the shares. 15% were distributed to assetholders of NxtVenture and superNET. There are no plans to distribute any more shares in this way. 5% of shares are part of jl777hodl.

40% of shares are inside superNET. Although some of those will be spent on development, the majority will be held by superNET, and thus Pangea dividends will feed to superNET holders via those shares.

20% is held by me, and 20% is held by 5000bitcoins. Some of these will be given to other developers as the project goes forward, others will need to be sold to pay for marketing and various other development costs. We have sold very few so far so most of the shares sold on the market have come from the 15% of superNET/NxtVenture assetholders.

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: DesertWind on March 13, 2015, 02:58:15 pm
Pokerstars will not be their primary competitor unless they truly produce slick and groundbreaking software with low rake and get real global attention. Even if they manage that, for the first 1-2 years their primary competitors will be: swcpoker.eu, betcoin.ag, nitrogensports.eu and pokershibes.eu. Most poker players around the world do not even know about cryptocurrency poker, so the players on these sites are a relatively select group. We will initially be competing with those sites for that small group of ~1,000-5,000 total players.

Nice post, I love to see real numbers tossed around. Even if they are approximate.

Bryan Micon was a fringe poker pro with a dodgy past and limited technical skills...
Who went out-of-business idiotically running an illegal poker site out of a Nevada location...
When recently all his computers were seized in a raid and Bryan decided to become a fugitive in Antigua with his family...
Until he is likely charged with serious crimes after forensic analysis of his PCs is complete in a few months.

I used to live in Nevada. You do not ever f*ck with Nevada Law Enforcement. OJ Simpson tried that one.

In contrast, jl777 is a genius level software developer (guys like this are comparable to world class athletes)...
And, as a tribute to his financial expertise, controls roughly 50% of the assets on NXT AE...
So I could see something significantly better than SWC resulting from this project...
And Pangea would be very difficult to shut down if implemented as a NXT plug-in.

Yes, first you go for #1 in the BTC Poker space which might give you 100-200 micro stakes players...
But then you have to aggressively blur the line between the Crypto Ghetto and mainstream poker sites.

Even at $1,000,000/year in revenue in 6-12 months... I could see it trading for 20 times revenue...
Valuations are crazy for prime high tech startups in a bubbly financial environment.

I would suggest signing an interesting, squeaky clean, name EU poker pro to be the face of Pangea...
And starting an active Pangea thread on 2+2 *** as soon as the software is debugged and real money ***...
Do not bore the 2+2 crowd with a beta play money site... first impressions are very important.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on March 13, 2015, 04:03:06 pm
I wasn't aware of the skills of jl777, the impression I got from the videos released so far was that it was a pretty basic interface. If what you say is true my expectations have been improved significantly  :)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: DesertWind on March 13, 2015, 05:37:09 pm
I wasn't aware of the skills of jl777, the impression I got from the videos released so far was that it was a pretty basic interface. If what you say is true my expectations have been improved significantly  :)

The complexity of p2p poker is all at the back-end... a GUI interface is relatively trivial.
And "Bitcoin poker" is not p2p poker... it's just tiny, centralized sites that accept BTC...
(And I see that nitrogensports has only 20 players and betcoin about 50... versus 100-200,000 players online).

There's a reason that it's 2015 and successful p2p poker does not exist...
Things like decentralized RNG, attacks, collusion, simulating a "PokerStars experience" with p2p latency...
A lot of these problems have never been effectively solved... I wanna see James & company take a crack at them  :)

There's some heavy hitters in this thread and they all zero in on one thing:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=118035.0

That's why it's critical to build a framework that moves players around at will...
Only hands matter, every hand is "atomic" (tables are basically irrelevant)... and a hand has to be played off the blockchain for speed...
Allowing you to have ring games, rush/zoom poker, and tourneys... it's all the same because hands are the building block.

It would be nice to see a roadmap.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on March 13, 2015, 11:33:38 pm
This is getting me really excited. I'm going to buy some superNET soon.

I'll also be streaming poker at twitch.tv/natmccoy for the next several hours if anyone wants to check it out. I post that link not to spam but because I'm excited to support Pangea with it and I can use all the support I can get (even if it's just a 'follow'). I don't get as many viewers with the format I've been using, max of 20 with music/no-webcam and up to 50 with cam. I've gotten 48 people to use my pokershibes referral that way and got a few U.S. players into betcoin and sealswithclubs. I think it could get some attention to Pangea once the site is up and I have more followers. Plus with webcam it's easier to tell people about how to sign up, get chips etc. Twitch is a good way to get attention to a poker site, hopefully other folks will stream Pangea as well.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on March 14, 2015, 01:09:18 am

It would be nice to see a roadmap.

Hi! A few interesting posts in here. Regarding roadmap I mentioned earlier in thread we'll release it in due time, Again I realize that is saying stuff without really saying anything, but some things are better being tight-lipped about until it is not.

Pokerstars will not be their primary competitor unless they truly produce slick and groundbreaking software with low rake and get real global attention. Even if they manage that, for the first 1-2 years their primary competitors will be: swcpoker.eu, betcoin.ag, nitrogensports.eu and pokershibes.eu. Most poker players around the world do not even know about cryptocurrency poker, so the players on these sites are a relatively select group. We will initially be competing with those sites for that small group of ~1,000-5,000 total players.

Yes, first you go for #1 in the BTC Poker space which might give you 100-200 micro stakes players...
But then you have to aggressively blur the line between the Crypto Ghetto and mainstream poker sites.

I would suggest signing an interesting, squeaky clean, name EU poker pro to be the face of Pangea...
And starting an active Pangea thread on 2+2 *** as soon as the software is debugged and real money ***...
Do not bore the 2+2 crowd with a beta play money site... first impressions are very important.

Yes, we will strive for the crypto userbase first of all, since we are a crypto business but aren't looking for that to necessarily define us, but inevitably it probably will. Priority number one is building a good place to play Poker, if succesful maybe a few who play with fiat will go through the hurdle of buying BTC for their first time, until BTC will get easier to use for everyone, so that the tech/services behind it that is good can be put to widespread use. My point is that it would be ideal if it were made as convinient for new users to use BTC as it is using USD/EUR/RUB to them. We're watching closely for all solutions that can be made for this to simplify the process until the developers in this space make a breakthrough in this. And yes, Pokerstars has been around for 14 years so taking on them or already making comparisons to them isnt on top of the list, rather study their succesful concepts and their failed ones and take it to heart. We don't have the same kind of money they do, so our marketing will have to be somewhat unorthodox combined with a lot of man hours, and expanding Pangea will most likely happend gradually, and fiatplayers will not happend over night, this is something we know and come prepared with two feet on the ground.

As for looking for someone to be the face of Pangea, first of all I have looked for known and reputable poker players who also are somewhat in crypto.
I might need to change approach as they are not exactly growing on trees I've come to know, I found the perfect candidate but unfortunely he seems to have left the scene, in other words I have not been able to contact him. If you have any suggestions feel free to throw me a bone in PM, I am still looking.

Indeed there is no need for other forums until we've fully launched, there is not that much info released yet to discuss anyway.


This is getting me really excited. I'm going to buy some superNET soon.

I'll also be streaming poker at twitch.tv/natmccoy for the next several hours if anyone wants to check it out. I post that link not to spam but because I'm excited to support Pangea with it and I can use all the support I can get (even if it's just a 'follow'). I don't get as many viewers with the format I've been using, max of 20 with music/no-webcam and up to 50 with cam. I've gotten 48 people to use my pokershibes referral that way and got a few U.S. players into betcoin and sealswithclubs. I think it could get some attention to Pangea once the site is up and I have more followers. Plus with webcam it's easier to tell people about how to sign up, get chips etc. Twitch is a good way to get attention to a poker site, hopefully other folks will stream Pangea as well.

That is cool and it will be much appreciated! Indeed using video to explain things is a good approach, for example reading about BTC for the first couple times is a thorough research that doesnt leave much room left in the brain and usually raises more questions than answers. Hopefully with the use of f.ex videos of fiat to btc > play cards at pangea can be made simple so people need not know about the underlying technology

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: nxtjack on March 15, 2015, 04:00:31 am

It would be nice to see a roadmap.

Hi! A few interesting posts in here. Regarding roadmap I mentioned earlier in thread we'll release it in due time, Again I realize that is saying stuff without really saying anything, but some things are better being tight-lipped about until it is not.

Pokerstars will not be their primary competitor unless they truly produce slick and groundbreaking software with low rake and get real global attention. Even if they manage that, for the first 1-2 years their primary competitors will be: swcpoker.eu, betcoin.ag, nitrogensports.eu and pokershibes.eu. Most poker players around the world do not even know about cryptocurrency poker, so the players on these sites are a relatively select group. We will initially be competing with those sites for that small group of ~1,000-5,000 total players.

Yes, first you go for #1 in the BTC Poker space which might give you 100-200 micro stakes players...
But then you have to aggressively blur the line between the Crypto Ghetto and mainstream poker sites.

I would suggest signing an interesting, squeaky clean, name EU poker pro to be the face of Pangea...
And starting an active Pangea thread on 2+2 *** as soon as the software is debugged and real money ***...
Do not bore the 2+2 crowd with a beta play money site... first impressions are very important.

Yes, we will strive for the crypto userbase first of all, since we are a crypto business but aren't looking for that to necessarily define us, but inevitably it probably will. Priority number one is building a good place to play Poker, if succesful maybe a few who play with fiat will go through the hurdle of buying BTC for their first time, until BTC will get easier to use for everyone, so that the tech/services behind it that is good can be put to widespread use. My point is that it would be ideal if it were made as convinient for new users to use BTC as it is using USD/EUR/RUB to them. We're watching closely for all solutions that can be made for this to simplify the process until the developers in this space make a breakthrough in this. And yes, Pokerstars has been around for 14 years so taking on them or already making comparisons to them isnt on top of the list, rather study their succesful concepts and their failed ones and take it to heart. We don't have the same kind of money they do, so our marketing will have to be somewhat unorthodox combined with a lot of man hours, and expanding Pangea will most likely happend gradually, and fiatplayers will not happend over night, this is something we know and come prepared with two feet on the ground.

As for looking for someone to be the face of Pangea, first of all I have looked for known and reputable poker players who also are somewhat in crypto.
I might need to change approach as they are not exactly growing on trees I've come to know, I found the perfect candidate but unfortunely he seems to have left the scene, in other words I have not been able to contact him. If you have any suggestions feel free to throw me a bone in PM, I am still looking.

Indeed there is no need for other forums until we've fully launched, there is not that much info released yet to discuss anyway.


This is getting me really excited. I'm going to buy some superNET soon.

I'll also be streaming poker at twitch.tv/natmccoy for the next several hours if anyone wants to check it out. I post that link not to spam but because I'm excited to support Pangea with it and I can use all the support I can get (even if it's just a 'follow'). I don't get as many viewers with the format I've been using, max of 20 with music/no-webcam and up to 50 with cam. I've gotten 48 people to use my pokershibes referral that way and got a few U.S. players into betcoin and sealswithclubs. I think it could get some attention to Pangea once the site is up and I have more followers. Plus with webcam it's easier to tell people about how to sign up, get chips etc. Twitch is a good way to get attention to a poker site, hopefully other folks will stream Pangea as well.

That is cool and it will be much appreciated! Indeed using video to explain things is a good approach, for example reading about BTC for the first couple times is a thorough research that doesnt leave much room left in the brain and usually raises more questions than answers. Hopefully with the use of f.ex videos of fiat to btc > play cards at pangea can be made simple so people need not know about the underlying technology

Probably I stated my background earlier, not sure, but I'll try to keep it short. I have been a professional gambler for 30 years. Mostly, I played poker and won a couple of big titles, a WSOP bracelet and an EPT. Actually I was a Full Tilt Poker pro for some years. The last 2 years, I didn't travel much and was mainly interested in crypto. I spend a couple of hours a day studying/investing the crypto world and I of course play some poker online.

There are two things,  I like to comment on. First, the idea about looking for a sponsored pro/face for PANGEA. I agree that having a face is a good idea. Probably a girl that is already known in the pokerworld might be optimal. But sponsoring players costs a lot of money. What source is available for sponsorships? As far as I understood, almost (80%) all coins are with you, James and Supernet. But I guess, clever guys like you understand that is very good to give up a part, to invest in marketing/promotions.

Second thing I like to talk about is the games that are going to be offered. I was already there when online poker started, I remember mike caro's planetpoker. Then paradisepoker went big and finally Pokerstars more or less killed them all because they were the first with big multItable tournaments. This is something, I like to talk about. When PANGEA is ready and starts to run, the main goal is to get a growing playerpool. So, first you have to attract the players and then you have to keep them. I leave the attracting part for what it is. I like to talk about the plans to keep the players. Some time ago I read in this thread that PANGEA was going to start with only no limit holdem cash games. And actually this more or less is the biggest mistake you can make. There is not another poker game were the fish have absolutely no chance to win. When you start with just NLH cashgames within short time the best players will have all the coins. About SWC, I heard Cole South took all the BTC. Do you remeber Partypoker diveded the playerpool some years ago, because the fish were eaten to quickly and the games dried up. In NLH, good versus bad hands is 80-20%. In PLO are we talking about 60-40%. So PLO is already a better gane to keep the fish alive. I mean seriously, all NLH is dead and PANGEA tries to become big with NLH, hmmm.

Do you remember why Pokerstars went big extremely quickly, yes, just because of the Multi Table Tournaments.
Putting myself in your seat, I wouldn't start running PANGEA, before MTT'S could be offered. Making MTT'S with guaranteed price pools is a must. A world class tournament player can momentarily play pokerstars daily tournaments with a 30% ROI. Pretty bad players lose about 50%. So, when a guy has $100, he can play 10 $10 buyin tournaments and still has $50 left. When that same guy sits down in a NLH cashgame $10 buyin, he will lose his 10 buyins very quick. Bad players lose easily 30 big blinds in 100 hands.

As, we all think crypto will be huge in the future. So timing the to start PANGEA now is great. I don't think you have to be in a hurry to have it running quickly. Better, to have it setup with the right games, guaranteed pricepools, sponsored pro's/propplayers and marketing plan.

When you are looking for a specific players, I know many wellknown players and might be able to help you. Maybe I can contact them.

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on March 15, 2015, 04:55:54 am
nxtjack - You might be referring to my suggestion to keep the initially small player pool condensed. Your points about NLHE cash being bad at retaining players makes a lot of sense though.

The jumps from 0 to 50 to 1,000+ active players are difficult and they will need to make well calculated decisions to make that happen. See: Pink Poker at basically 0 active players, Pokershibes at 10-50 (micro stakes), betcoin and swc at 50-100 (mostly micro).
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: nxtjack on March 15, 2015, 01:50:52 pm
About 25 years ago, I run a small pokerroom. In those good old days, it was normal to take 5% rake, no cap. To start the pokergame, I had to join myself as well. Running the room, I made myself a couple of rules.
1. Give all clients free drinks and food ( whatever they wanted, just get it).
2. Don't win at the pokergames ( try to play break even), because winning at the tables. being the manager,  will look very bad regarding the customers.
3. Make fair decision when there are problems and keep everyone happy.

What I mean to say is, translated to PANGEA.
1. Enthousiasm people to play. Make a big marketing strategy.
2. But even more important make a plan so the losing players, don't quit so quickly.
Pokerstars for instance runs a nice VPP program, vpp-points can be changed back to money/playing chips.. Supernova elite players will eventually have around 60% rakeback. So, the better players, make a lot of volume to reach that level. I have been thinking a lot about the rakeback system and I think it can be done better. Like I said before as a pokerroom you have to look after your losing players to stay a healthy business. A normal rakeback system gives you points for the rake you paid. PANGEA can change that.
Imagine you have a tournament with 100 players, $10+$1. This means $10 goes to the pricepool and $1 is rake. For that $1 everyone gets normally 5 vpp-points. As a pokerroom you could also say; Top 10 finishers get 1 vpp, numbers 11 to 20 get 2 vpp....etc and numbers 91 to 100 get 10 vpp. By making this change you already favour the bad players.
It's important to have a deposit bonus. The deposit bonus could be higher when people lost more.There are a lot things important to think about.
Most probably you need propplayers, that are paid in PANGEA. This could be wellknown pokerplayers (hopefully not to many, because we don't need too many pokerpro's). But also crypto enthouisiast could function as propplayers paid by the hour or tournament. Young kids might be interested to built their PANGEA-stack by making hours at the pokertables.
Overall, what I mean to say is, online poker is not a young business anymore. This week we heart Partypoker had his yearly returns gone down by 29%. For PANGEA, they have to come up with some new strategies to have a chance to become succesfull.
So, finally we come to a point where high rake and a good rakeback system could be very healthy for the pokerroom. When PANGEA for instance works with a 10% rake system and it makes a rakeback system where 80% or so of the rake is given back to the players in the way I proposed above, you actually end up with a system where the bad players benefit and so PANGEA benefits.

Hopefully 5000Bitcoins and James consider these thoughts.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: starfishi on March 15, 2015, 04:49:43 pm
About 25 years ago, I run a small pokerroom. In those good old days, it was normal to take 5% rake, no cap. To start the pokergame, I had to join myself as well. Running the room, I made myself a couple of rules.
1. Give all clients free drinks and food ( whatever they wanted, just get it).
2. Don't win at the pokergames ( try to play break even), because winning at the tables. being the manager,  will look very bad regarding the customers.
3. Make fair decision when there are problems and keep everyone happy.

What I mean to say is, translated to PANGEA.
1. Enthousiasm people to play. Make a big marketing strategy.
2. But even more important make a plan so the losing players, don't quit so quickly.
Pokerstars for instance runs a nice VPP program, vpp-points can be changed back to money/playing chips.. Supernova elite players will eventually have around 60% rakeback. So, the better players, make a lot of volume to reach that level. I have been thinking a lot about the rakeback system and I think it can be done better. Like I said before as a pokerroom you have to look after your losing players to stay a healthy business. A normal rakeback system gives you points for the rake you paid. PANGEA can change that.
Imagine you have a tournament with 100 players, $10+$1. This means $10 goes to the pricepool and $1 is rake. For that $1 everyone gets normally5 vpp-points. As a pokerroom you could also say; Top 10 finishers get 1 vpp, numbers 11 to 20 get 2 vpp....etc and numbers 91 to 100 get 10 vpp. By making this change you already favour the bad players.
It's important to have a deposit bonus. The deposit bonus could be higher when people lost more.There are a lot things important to think about.
Most probably you need propplayers, that are paid in PANGEA. This could be wellknown pokerplayers (hopefully not to many, because we don't need too many pokerpro's). But also crypto enthoisiast could function as propplayers paid by the hour or tournament. Young kids might be interested to built their PANGEA-stack by making hours at the pokertables.
Overall, what I mean to say is, online poker is not a young business anymore. This week we heart Partypoker had his returns gone down by 27% or so. For PANGEA, they have to come up with some new strategies to have a chance to become succesfull.
So, finally we come to a point where high rake and a good rakeback system could be very healthy for the pokerroom. When PANGEA for instance works with a 10% rake system and it makes a rakeback system where 80% or so of the rake is given back to the players in the way I proposed above, you actually end up with a system where the bad players benefit and so PANGEA benefits.

Hopefully 5000Bitcoins and James consider these thoughts.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Cryptosi on March 15, 2015, 08:27:19 pm
Ok, so I've gone away and done my homework with the help of youtube, I now understand fully the decentralised nature of pangea and how the rake will be recieved and divided amongst the share holders. Needless to say I'm extremely excited about this project and will be getting myself a decent stake in this concept. How long till the software goes live do we estimate?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on March 16, 2015, 01:46:47 pm
nxtjack - I can't find the video right now, but there's a video of Daniel Negreanu discussing exactly what you are, that the best way to run a poker site is to design rakeback to keep the losing players at the tables. It definitely makes some sense. P.S. - Are you Deniel Negreanu?  :P

I just discovered yet another new cryptopoker site. paycoinpoker.com

What I don't like at first glance:

*It uses Mavens, a boring client with a bland interface I've seen a million times including on other cryptopoker sites like pokershibes.eu, K8 and pinkpoker (sealswithclubs used to use a slightly modified version of Mavens but now as swcpoker it uses 'grid').

*It's name is associated with a coin that many in the bitcoin community have been calling a scam for some time, although it's the 10th most valuable cryptocurrency and I don't know anything about it so I can't judge.

*Still few players (granted it's very new) Although there is a ~NL16 (USD equivalent) game running now with 4 players. It also has 110 players registered for a freeroll that is 2 days away.

* Their rake seems extremely high. The 1/2 table I checked has 4.5%, max of 50 big blinds. idk what Pokerstars rake is like, and maybe I'm used to cryptopoker rake which is very low at places like swcpoker, but even casino games I've played at cap the rake at 2.5 big blinds.

What I do like at first glance:

* Bad beat jackpot - That's always a fun possibility to have hovering above the table & may keep some people in the ring games for longer. This one is easier to unlock than the one at Betcoin (any quads or better vs. quad jacks or better at Betcoin). However they say that you must take a screenshot and e-mail it to them, they really should have automated that but maybe it's tricky to do with mavens. Maybe this is why the rake is so high? Bad beat jackpots are fun but if it's the reason rake is so high it's just a bad way to increase inequality (drain chips from everyone to dump them on a few random people)

*Accepting multiple cryptocurrencies, this is the first I've seen of that beyond Betcoin which accepts Bitcoin or Litecoin. They accept: Paycoin, Doge, Darkcoin, Bitcoin and maybe a few others. (Darkcoin is cool since it may be even more anonymous to use.) I'm not sure what Pangea is planning to accept for chips, but perhaps accepting multiple currencies would be a good thing, it would stick with a 'global' 'all-inclusive' theme and might attract players who don't feel like using/learning to use an exchange. This is rather novel because you would need to integrate modern market prices to convert to your chips at an appropriate rate, you would also need to keep a reserve of currencies at hand to allow withdrawals in a timely manner. Not sure how they're pulling this off.

Definitely not trying to advertise for them, just making you aware of the competition and some things other sites are doing well/poorly.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on March 16, 2015, 06:40:59 pm
I just wanted to address that indeed, we are taking everything said into careful consideration, feedback is definitely cool and healthy to hear.
And it will be discussed more thoroughly from us once we publicly announce about the path we intend to pursue for Pangea.


As for ETAs, the only thing we've set so far is early April for playmoney test release. Live release most likely in June.


Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: nxtjack on March 16, 2015, 09:52:32 pm
nxtjack - I can't find the video right now, but there's a video of Daniel Negreanu discussing exactly what you are, that the best way to run a poker site is to design rakeback to keep the losing players at the tables. It definitely makes some sense. P.S. - Are you Deniel Negreanu?  :P

I just discovered yet another new cryptopoker site. paycoinpoker.com

What I don't like at first glance:

*It uses Mavens, a boring client with a bland interface I've seen a million times including on other cryptopoker sites like pokershibes.eu, K8 and pinkpoker (sealswithclubs used to use a slightly modified version of Mavens but now as swcpoker it uses 'grid').

*It's name is associated with a coin that many in the bitcoin community have been calling a scam for some time, although it's the 10th most valuable cryptocurrency and I don't know anything about it so I can't judge.

*Still few players (granted it's very new) Although there is a ~NL16 (USD equivalent) game running now with 4 players. It also has 110 players registered for a freeroll that is 2 days away.

* Their rake seems extremely high. The 1/2 table I checked has 4.5%, max of 50 big blinds. idk what Pokerstars rake is like, and maybe I'm used to cryptopoker rake which is very low at places like swcpoker, but even casino games I've played at cap the rake at 2.5 big blinds.

What I do like at first glance:

* Bad beat jackpot - That's always a fun possibility to have hovering above the table & may keep some people in the ring games for longer. This one is easier to unlock than the one at Betcoin (any quads or better vs. quad jacks or better at Betcoin). However they say that you must take a screenshot and e-mail it to them, they really should have automated that but maybe it's tricky to do with mavens. Maybe this is why the rake is so high? Bad beat jackpots are fun but if it's the reason rake is so high it's just a bad way to increase inequality (drain chips from everyone to dump them on a few random people)

*Accepting multiple cryptocurrencies, this is the first I've seen of that beyond Betcoin which accepts Bitcoin or Litecoin. They accept: Paycoin, Doge, Darkcoin, Bitcoin and maybe a few others. (Darkcoin is cool since it may be even more anonymous to use.) I'm not sure what Pangea is planning to accept for chips, but perhaps accepting multiple currencies would be a good thing, it would stick with a 'global' 'all-inclusive' theme and might attract players who don't feel like using/learning to use an exchange. This is rather novel because you would need to integrate modern market prices to convert to your chips at an appropriate rate, you would also need to keep a reserve of currencies at hand to allow withdrawals in a timely manner. Not sure how they're pulling this off.

Definitely not trying to advertise for them, just making you aware of the competition and some things other sites are doing well/poorly.

Edited

Funny, Daniel said the same. I never heart him talking about it, but I really see some opportunities here. BTW, Daniel was never sponsored by FullTilt, so I am not Daniel Negreanu. Allthough, I played many times against him in WSOP-events. I remember once losing against him headsup in the second round of a shoot-out-nlh event, so he went to the final table.


For Pokerstars it's impossible to change their current rakeback system into something I illustrated in my post above. When they do something like this, many players will leave and go to probably 888. The reason Partypoker is doing bad has is caused by the measures they made last years. Ten years ago, I made about $ 15,000 rake a month on Partypoker. I was affiliate and had about 30 players under me, also creating $ 20,000 rake. then ac ouplle of things happened that I didn't like. First of all they told me that my best rakemaker was playing on 2 accounts ( which wasn't correct) and I lost his rake. Then a couple years later I made a deposit, played a bit, won and wanted to cash out. The cashout wasn't possible, they told me. Because I hadn't played enough hands. They said, that the cashouts costs them more money than the rake I had made. So, I had to play many more hands before being able to cashout. Then a bit later, Partypoker started taking 6% ( or so) fee when players cash out. I stopped playing on Partypoker about 5 years ago and promised myself never to play on a pokersite again, that treats players this way.
So, easy to understand Partypoker's revenu is heavily declining. So, Pokerstars cannot easily change the rakeback system they have now. A couple of months ago they wanted to kick up the rake. Many players reacted heavily and finally Pokerstars not to do it.

My suggestions;
PANGEA though, can easily start with such a system. We cannot lose players for that reason, because we don't have players.
PANGEA has to make a system where the cashout is of course free of charge.
PANGEA needs a rake-system that is about halve of the current big online Pokerrooms, so the pro-players are allready happy and don't care so much about the rakeback.
And then, PANGEA can use a big part of the rake to give it back to the poor players.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: frohlocke on March 17, 2015, 12:46:09 am
A lot of valuable input here. I have learned a lot.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: DesertWind on March 18, 2015, 02:48:46 pm
nxtjack - I can't find the video right now, but there's a video of Daniel Negreanu discussing exactly what you are, that the best way to run a poker site is to design rakeback to keep the losing players at the tables. It definitely makes some sense. P.S. - Are you Deniel Negreanu?  :P

Definitely not trying to advertise for them, just making you aware of the competition and some things other sites are doing well/poorly.

I'm very optimistic about Pangea...
Because after spending a few hours reading the 2+2 "Internet Poker" BITCOIN site threads...
There are endless complaints, the sites are all microscopic with < 100 players... it's inexplicable why someone hasn't done it right yet.

If it was me, I would make an actual LIST of the things that people are complaining about...
And systematically eliminate the issues one by one so you end up with a "quality poker experience" approaching PokerStars.

It's obvious by THE FACT that BTC sites have < 0.5% of the market after 2-3 years of trying...
That people would rather pay PokerStars 9-10% rake for a quality experience...
Than "save money" and pay 2.5% rake to some obscure site...
But have trust issues, empty tables and cashout problems that rain on their parade.

For 95% of online players it's just entertainment for a few hours/week...
Make them happy and take their money... so focus obsessively on the REPUTATION and "playing experience" initially.

Also, with "standard" 2.5% rake on Bitcoin sites...
There is not a lot of revenue to throw around with elaborate affiliate/rakeback schemes...
Which only high volume grinders and bots care about... so it's a BIG FREAKING double edged sword.

So back to 40 yo "Kid Poker" and his ideas about protecting the fish = DN is absolutely right...
The focus should be on jackpots for average players and building a friendly community... not on rakeback to ruthless grinders and bots.

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: sushibi on March 22, 2015, 03:00:37 pm
Awesome! Great to see guys. Heard about supernet and within a few days i am here.


Been playing online the last 6 years pretty intense... Here's a few things I have noticed -

1. The Bitcoin poker world lackas a real good leaderboard / rewards
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: sushibi on March 22, 2015, 03:10:08 pm
Awesome! Great to see guys. Heard about supernet and within a few days i am here. Can't wait to try this.  Here's my two bits on poker marketing...


Been playing online the last 6 years pretty intense... Here's a few things I have noticed -

1. The crypto poker world lacks a real good leader-board forum / rewards system -  If the target is poker players outside the crypto world, forums and weekly/monthly rewarded poker leaderboards would be huge to encourage questions and incentivize others to learn crypto currencies and try em out.
2. Customer service customer service, customer service is very important... Reason I make a point of saying "Fuck party poker" whenever i get the chance.. Did I mention, fuck partypoker?
3. I found Bitcoin through poker deposits.....  Transactions bring a whole new level of convenience to traditional poker rooms.. marketing to existing poker players not aware of crypto currencies will be a good idea as there is much benefit for regulars.  Perhaps a few Google and facebook ads tareted at Poker players who are searching for "pokerstars" "partypoker" "fulltilt" customer service or something.
4. Referral system - a good one.
5. 3 or 4 pro's who play with 0 fees for life. Perhaps bounties on these. Need to encourage people online always
6. Not just freerolls, but free rolls that matter.   Everyone offer free rolls that are worth 50 cents.  Why is someone going to come a play your free rolls? Perhaps if you wil a certain amount there is a prize. 2 in a row, a bigger prize. Perhaps a progressive bonus for someone who wins two back to back..
7. An easily accessible place to get crypto for poker within the poker dashboard.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Cryptosi on March 29, 2015, 12:21:42 pm
OK, I'm in, just bought my first few shares on the NXT exchange, I think it's time to start building the buzz around this concept. The website is neat, and the twitter account should point to it, as well as the forums. Joe public has less interest in forums. Who are we signing to be the face of pangea? I think he/she should be paid with pangea assets as a stake, then they will have an incentive to actually push the platform, and the sky's the limit on their earnings......... Man i'm excited
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: DesertWind on March 29, 2015, 12:56:42 pm
Who are we signing to be the face of pangea? I think he/she should be paid with pangea assets as a stake, then they will have an incentive to actually push the platform, and the sky's the limit on their earnings......... Man i'm excited

Martin Jacobson. You want a squeaky clean guy like this. Reptation is everything in
online poker. I watched a re-run of the November 9 and his main sponsor was CILTEP...
an obscure Nootropic Stack for focus, motivation and memory. His only other sponsor
appears to be a charity Raising for Effective Giving (he just played 7 days in a row at Malta EPT).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_for_Effective_Giving

Martin does not promote any poker room which is highly unusual... so seems like just
the kind of non-conformist that would be into crypto. Someone send him a NXT t-shirt...
he likes black t-shirts  :D

https://twitter.com/martin_jacobson
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on March 29, 2015, 01:40:02 pm
OK, I'm in, just bought my first few shares on the NXT exchange, I think it's time to start building the buzz around this concept. The website is neat, and the twitter account should point to it, as well as the forums. Joe public has less interest in forums. Who are we signing to be the face of pangea? I think he/she should be paid with pangea assets as a stake, then they will have an incentive to actually push the platform, and the sky's the limit on their earnings......... Man i'm excited

Hi. It's cool you think so, but we're actually in the process of switching to WP and remaking the website to be more concise. I'm still on the lookout for a face for Pangea, but I think we'll have a better chance of finding one suited for it once we unveil how Pangea will be built.

For now, it's just been about getting people to notice the development, and keep an eye out for Pangea, perhaps try the playmoney test version, aswell as making necessary preparations so things will move like clockwork once ready. I don't think buzz is neccessary right now, as we've not yet released anything of significance yet and the first real money release will be in May/June, so any buzz about it right now would most likely lead to more bad than good, i.e potential players growing tired of waiting and moving on, or the developers of Pangea feeling unnecessary pressure to deliver quickly rather than taking the time necessary, should they for example come up with a better solution to something along the way which pushes the deadline.

I am extremely excited too, but no need to rush into things when there is time to be considerate, when test version is up, we can definitely put some feelers out!

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Cryptosi on April 12, 2015, 05:13:00 pm
Any news on a release date for playmoney/test version of the software?

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: rdanneskjoldr on April 12, 2015, 11:24:43 pm
Any news on a release date for playmoney/test version of the software?

Last supernet newsletter says:

http://nxter.org/supernet-newsletter-16/

As for ETAs, early April for playmoney test release. Live release most likely in June.

I thought it was mistaken, i think its too optimistic, given we are april 13th.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on April 13, 2015, 09:42:07 am
Any news on a release date for playmoney/test version of the software?

Last supernet newsletter says:

http://nxter.org/supernet-newsletter-16/

As for ETAs, early April for playmoney test release. Live release most likely in June.

I thought it was mistaken, i think its too optimistic, given we are april 13th.

That information is based on schedules we made a few months back. It's taking longer than we hoped. Will talk to the main software dev and figure out when we now expect to have a test release.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on April 27, 2015, 12:02:56 pm
Any updates on the test release?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on April 28, 2015, 03:10:22 am
Any updates on the test release?

Hi! Excuse my late reply, situation is as Valarmg mentions here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=762346.msg11190237#msg11190237

We gave some thought how to best go about announcing it and figured, atleast before being called out to do so, that instead of focusing on the reason for it (software developer being ill!) we would give him a few days to get up to pace and figure out where we stand. ETA for playmoney release has now been set to mid/late May.

While it is unfortunate at the end of the day such things can't be helped, and in the long run a month more or less will most likely not be the biggest hurdle we will face.
That being said, we are confident that May will be our month where we can show how Pangea is built and how it will be like playing poker there.

I did expect that a few hickups and delays would happend along the way, given Pangea is quite complex. On the brightside, now we can prepare more, plan better, and end up being even more hungry to accomplish what we set out to.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: alphawar06 on May 13, 2015, 09:29:32 am
Hi how is the Pangea Poker comming on? Is it worthwhile getting some more shares ? Any news on the release of the beta version ? Thanks for the info
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on May 13, 2015, 12:27:06 pm
Hi how is the Pangea Poker comming on? Is it worthwhile getting some more shares ? Any news on the release of the beta version ? Thanks for the info

Hi! It's going according to plan, software developer is still working according to schedule to finish the playmoney version by the end of May.
It is estimated the real version will be live and integrated with SN 1-2 months after that.

Regarding shares to answer that would have to see what kind of revenues we got to work with once we're up, until then it is only unfounded projections.
I'll leave speculating to traders, and we will be focusing on delivering the best possible product. Anyhow, there is some discussion about it on page 11 here.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: alphawar06 on May 14, 2015, 08:34:39 am
Hi how is the Pangea Poker comming on? Is it worthwhile getting some more shares ? Any news on the release of the beta version ? Thanks for the info

Hi! It's going according to plan, software developer is still working according to schedule to finish the playmoney version by the end of May.
It is estimated the real version will be live and integrated with SN 1-2 months after that.

Regarding shares to answer that would have to see what kind of revenues we got to work with once we're up, until then it is only unfounded projections.
I'll leave speculating to traders, and we will be focusing on delivering the best possible product. Anyhow, there is some discussion about it on page 11 here.

Cant wait to see this rocket taking off
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: alphawar06 on May 14, 2015, 08:37:22 am
Should the Pangea asset dividend be released to NXTventure/SuperNET assetholders?
Will this mean if I hold only Pangea Poker assets and not NXTventure/ASuperNET assets I will not recieve any dividend?

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Cassius on May 14, 2015, 08:48:17 am
Should the Pangea asset dividend be released to NXTventure/SuperNET assetholders?
Will this mean if I hold only Pangea Poker assets and not NXTventure/ASuperNET assets I will not recieve any dividend?

SuperNET owns part of Pangea, not all of it. If you hold Pangea, you'll get Pangea dividends.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: yassin54 on May 14, 2015, 02:25:05 pm
hi 5000Bitcoins
I would like your opinion on this topic: http://www.pokerupdate.com/news/networks-and-rooms/05123-swcpoker-loses-44-of-player-traffic/
thanks.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on May 15, 2015, 02:08:16 pm
hi 5000Bitcoins
I would like your opinion on this topic: http://www.pokerupdate.com/news/networks-and-rooms/05123-swcpoker-loses-44-of-player-traffic/
thanks.


Hi yassin54!

I don't like to comment on other competitors, they do their work and we do ours. Especially in the case of SWC it might come across as gloating since it's founders situation is dire and not something you'd wish happening to anyone, my take on it is that it really highlights the ridiculous situation of Poker in the US.

That being said, stating the obvious the 44% drop of player traffic obviously went somewhere else, since I doubt they all quit playing, or they are waiting for something new, like something that can't be shut down as easily, because who knows if the next time the same thing occurs (goes for every centralized gambling venture) that players can get out alive. I have a few opinions as to why the low userbase is, and I must mention, not exclusive to gambling in BTC (but other ventures too, for sometimes other reasons). I'll just cover a few points about poker and crypto here;

Just using BTC as currency isn't enough to make a venture successful, product needs to be up to par (for those familiar with BTC) and it needs to have an edge over fiat competitors (to get players who enjoy fiat). If a site in EUR or USD is not good, players won't go there. No different here.
Product needs to be simple, yet offer something good utilizing blockchain tech. Fluctuations is a problem, so lower rakes than standard will be the 'trade-off'.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: DesertWind on May 16, 2015, 04:38:03 am
hi 5000Bitcoins
I would like your opinion on this topic: http://www.pokerupdate.com/news/networks-and-rooms/05123-swcpoker-loses-44-of-player-traffic/
thanks.

"Making matters worse for Micon, law enforcement in Nevada issued a warrant for the SWCPoker
founder’s arrest last month for operating a poker site without a license. Ten years in the slammer
and $50,000 in fines is the maximum punishment possible for the Class B felony charge."

This was so predictable. He'll probably be OJ's girlfiriend.

If an idiot like Micon can stand up a site that did 100 players/day and about $1,000,000/year in revenue...
It boggles the mind that all of the "rocket scientists" in the Bitcoin Space have failed to even match this in 3-4 years.

One problem is the idea that you promote poker or gambling to the tiny "crypto hobbyist" cult...
No, you promote poker to the 100,000 serious online players that are tired of paying 9% rake...
And you have to focus on tourneys with lotto-type payouts as opposed to Old School cash games.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: yassin54 on May 16, 2015, 11:55:05 am
hi 5000Bitcoins
I would like your opinion on this topic: http://www.pokerupdate.com/news/networks-and-rooms/05123-swcpoker-loses-44-of-player-traffic/
thanks.


Hi yassin54!

I don't like to comment on other competitors, they do their work and we do ours. Especially in the case of SWC it might come across as gloating since it's founders situation is dire and not something you'd wish happening to anyone, my take on it is that it really highlights the ridiculous situation of Poker in the US.

That being said, stating the obvious the 44% drop of player traffic obviously went somewhere else, since I doubt they all quit playing, or they are waiting for something new, like something that can't be shut down as easily, because who knows if the next time the same thing occurs (goes for every centralized gambling venture) that players can get out alive. I have a few opinions as to why the low userbase is, and I must mention, not exclusive to gambling in BTC (but other ventures too, for sometimes other reasons). I'll just cover a few points about poker and crypto here;

Just using BTC as currency isn't enough to make a venture successful, product needs to be up to par (for those familiar with BTC) and it needs to have an edge over fiat competitors (to get players who enjoy fiat). If a site in EUR or USD is not good, players won't go there. No different here.
Product needs to be simple, yet offer something good utilizing blockchain tech. Fluctuations is a problem, so lower rakes than standard will be the 'trade-off'.

"Making matters worse for Micon, law enforcement in Nevada issued a warrant for the SWCPoker
founder’s arrest last month for operating a poker site without a license. Ten years in the slammer
and $50,000 in fines is the maximum punishment possible for the Class B felony charge."

This was so predictable. He'll probably be OJ's girlfiriend.

If an idiot like Micon can stand up a site that did 100 players/day and about $1,000,000/year in revenue...
It boggles the mind that all of the "rocket scientists" in the Bitcoin Space have failed to even match this in 3-4 years.

One problem is the idea that you promote poker or gambling to the tiny "crypto hobbyist" cult...
No, you promote poker to the 100,000 serious online players that are tired of paying 9% rake...
And you have to focus on tourneys with lotto-type payouts as opposed to Old School cash games.

thanks for reply
I am even more happy
for my asset Pangea   ;)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on May 28, 2015, 05:23:27 am
Hi everyone. Figured I would update you all on the projects current status. We're getting close to releasing the playmoney test version, and our software developer is busy tying up the last little bits and pieces to get us rolling.

We've secured a promising partnership thanks to superNET in regards to marketing, and have another partnership in the works, also about marketing.
I figure to adress the first properly, when it is exactly clear what they will do for Pangea later on, and the second when it is set in stone.

I would also like to adress something that was brought to my attention last week, that the Blocknet has an APP called Bitnation Pangea.
I want to clarify that we are in no way affiliated, but I would also like to say that we're not the first nor the last using the name Pangea, and after reading their website I could see their thought process of coming up with the name, but just to have it said to avoid any confusions that may arise.

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: alphawar06 on May 28, 2015, 06:08:32 am
Hi everyone. Figured I would update you all on the projects current status. We're getting close to releasing the playmoney test version, and our software developer is busy tying up the last little bits and pieces to get us rolling.

We've secured a promising partnership thanks to superNET in regards to marketing, and have another partnership in the works, also about marketing.
I figure to adress the first properly, when it is exactly clear what they will do for Pangea later on, and the second when it is set in stone.

I would also like to adress something that was brought to my attention last week, that the Blocknet has an APP called Bitnation Pangea.
I want to clarify that we are in no way affiliated, but I would also like to say that we're not the first nor the last using the name Pangea, and after reading their website I could see their thought process of coming up with the name, but just to have it said to avoid any confusions that may arise.
Good News lets get some more Pangea Poker assets
 ;D
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: yassin54 on May 31, 2015, 01:59:00 pm
Any update? 
I would like to test Pangea  :)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: prometheus on May 31, 2015, 03:04:27 pm
Any update? 
I would like to test Pangea  :)

there was an update 3 days ago
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: yassin54 on May 31, 2015, 04:53:05 pm
Any update? 
I would like to test Pangea  :)

there was an update 3 days ago
I say that
because normally the test was to come out in late May
I can still wait months because I trust in pangea  :) :)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: rdanneskjoldr on June 14, 2015, 11:03:09 am
I dont see how decentralized poker sites could fight against this, which would definately be a problem. And people trust stars even if they shouldnt, maybe they can scam users in many ways.. but they wont trust a decentralized site where help software will definately be there even in zoom or sng formats.


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=47218473&postcount=1
Quote
As evidenced by recent forum discussion, the topic of third-party software in online poker is a highly complex and contentious issue. As new software is developed, we must keep our rules enforcement up to date and also consider when rules need to be changed.

A developer recently shared new software with us for evaluation and we informed him that the software was allowable. The decision was based around the premise that static reference material that does not change depending on action in the hand, or any other variable, is permitted. This rule was initially designed some years ago so that Nash charts and other similar documents would be permitted to be referenced while playing.

The software we reviewed allows quick and precise reference to a very large number of static charts that cover most or all preflop situations. While within our current rules, this software goes beyond the level of assistance we want to see software providing players in our online poker room.

As a result, we are strongly considering changing our current policies (https://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/prohibited/ ) to the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by New PokerStars Rule Proposal
Q.   In general, what kind of tools and services are acceptable?

A. The following types of tools and services are generally acceptable:
1.   Tools and services that simply report basic game state information, such as pot odds or absolute hand strength.
2.   Tools and services that are static reference material and basic in nature, such as a single table-based starting hand chart.
3.   Tools and services that profile your opponents, but make use of only information which you have accumulated through your own play.
4.   Macros and Hotkey programs that don’t have any bearing on gameplay logic. For example, you can use AutoHotKey, MacroExpress or AutoIt3 to make it such that you ‘bet the pot’ when you press the 'P' key, but you cannot use these or other utilities to create an autofolder that folds poor starting hands, or that automates advice or actions from any other tool or service.

Q. In general, what kinds of tools and services are prohibited at all times?

A. The following types of tools and services are prohibited at all times:
1.   Any tool or service that shares hole card data with other players or services is colluding, and is prohibited.
______i.   Hosting live streams on Twitch and other similar services is not considered as sharing hole card data.
2.   Any tool or service that works off of a central database of player profiles, hands played or private results is prohibited.
3.   Any tool or service that plays without human intervention (a ‘bot’) or reduces the requirement of a human playing. For instance, an ‘auto-folder’ is prohibited.
4.   The practice of datamining (observing games without playing in order to build up a database of hand histories for future reference) is prohibited.
5.   Any tool or service that offers real-time commentary or advice on the current game state that goes beyond reporting data and statistics.

Q. In general, what kinds of tools and services are prohibited only whilst the client is open?

A. The following types of tools and services are prohibited only whilst the client is open:
1.   Any tool or reference material that offers commentary or advice that goes beyond a basic level, such as stack-size-based starting hand tables, decision trees or heads-up displays that dynamically change based on player action or card values.
2.   Any tool or service that computes advanced equity calculations, such as range vs range simulators, ICM or Nash Equilibrium-based programs.
If these changes are implemented, the recently reviewed software in question would no longer be allowed to be used while the client is open. The rule that would affect this software is identified by italics.

Other programs would also be affected. The following are examples of other tools that would no longer be allowed to be used while the PokerStars client is open:

•   SessionLord’s Preflop Chart
•   Holy Grail of Poker
•   Poker Academy
•   HEM2’s LeakBuster
•   FlopZilla
•   Odds Oracle
•   PokerStove
•   NoteCaddy as is would require changes. It is permissible for HUDs to filter / drill down via street, but not by action facing or hole card / communicate card values.
•   PT4’s Leak Tracker

This is by no means a complete list, but a starting point to demonstrate what consequences the proposed changes would be.

Before implementing any new rules, we would like to hear from you, the players, as to what you think about the proposed changes. We will give you a period of 10 days for you to discuss and share opinions before we make a final decision.

For complete clarity, this does not mean that we will aim exclusively to make the decision that we think will be most popular in this forum. We are far more likely to be swayed by quality reasoning than by number of players sharing an opinion. If you wish to impact the decision, I encourage you to share not only your preferred outcome but also your reasoning.

If changes end up being made, there is likely to be a grace period for existing programs to be modified in order to comply with the new rules.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on June 16, 2015, 09:03:37 pm
Hi rdanneskjoldr,

I've been following the thread that led to those changes. Another relevant thread reports that PLO bots have made over 3million in PokerStars midstakes games before they were found out in the last few months.

Even if Stars implement those changes, it's pretty hard for them to enforce them. So these advancements are not just a problem for decentralized poker.

Our planned solution has taken these kinds of things into account. We haven't solved them (obviously impossible to just solve) but we haven't just ignored these problems.

I'll discuss in the upcoming weeks to see what others think.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: TwinWinNerD on June 16, 2015, 09:43:21 pm
Well there is one solution. Just allow all assisting software and bots. Betfair did this back in the day, I found the solution elegant. But I might not be represenative as I never played for the fun really.

As someone who ran a pokerbot software back in the day, I can tell you its impossible to prevent it. No matter how you setup your software, they will get all the information scraped (or read from the console) and feed it into the algorithm.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: whatnxt on June 17, 2015, 04:32:24 am
Well there is one solution. Just allow all assisting software and bots. Betfair did this back in the day, I found the solution elegant. But I might not be represenative as I never played for the fun really.

As someone who ran a pokerbot software back in the day, I can tell you its impossible to prevent it. No matter how you setup your software, they will get all the information scraped (or read from the console) and feed it into the algorithm.

I'd go along with that, if a human can play a bot can play and there is nothing you can do about that. What you can do is make things harder for the bot like allowing chat at the table so the bot has to work harder to pretend to be human.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: rajc on June 17, 2015, 07:36:08 am
bots are not that good in poker yet

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/a-poker-playing-supercomputer-just-barely-lost-to-human-pros
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: TwinWinNerD on June 17, 2015, 08:55:33 am
There is another solution, but TBH I don't know the implications of it for the fish and how its possible to do so in a decentralised environment. Bodog was the first to introduce anonymous tables. Where there is no username displayed, just Player1 Player2 .... ect. If you move to a new table, or leave and rejoin, nobody knows its you, and you can't really use statistical software for longerterm analysis.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: rdanneskjoldr on June 17, 2015, 10:45:48 am
bots are not that good in poker yet

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/a-poker-playing-supercomputer-just-barely-lost-to-human-pros

This is like saying Phil Hellmuth is better than Doug Polk, the best HU player who no one in the world gives action to online.

That supercomputer just won a competition of bots, maybe by universities( and it had huge flaws). But people who run good bots, dont go to show it publicly, they just get them to grind and win $$. In fact im pretty sure Doug Polk uses external help. Believe me, bots are really that good online. And especially if they cooperate, like the omaha bots, which shared table and the information of dealt cards, which is clearly cheating , the next level advantage if you let bots play, and impossible to avoid.

What im concerned is not the technical solutions, but the psychology of recreational players, who dont want to play online because they see it as an ocean of cheaters, and they are right.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: John Smith on June 18, 2015, 03:32:29 am
I dont see how decentralized poker sites could fight against this, which would definately be a problem. And people trust stars even if they shouldnt, maybe they can scam users in many ways.. but they wont trust a decentralized site where help software will definately be there even in zoom or sng formats.

I have a thought, a slight tweek to either pokereum (or likely pangea's) project that solves all of these issues (bots, hud software, high rake, collusion):

(https://i1.wp.com/s23.postimg.org/69611n4ff/DPoker_Diagram.png)
bots are not that good in poker yet

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/a-poker-playing-supercomputer-just-barely-lost-to-human-pros
Bots are a huge problem and the talk of the town around the poker communities right now (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip-sponsored-online-poker-report/news-massive-plo-bot-ring-pokerstars-millions-hands-huge-winners-1538509/) and will quickly evolve to game the profits of any field.  Any solution must address them because of this inevitability.  Its also significant to suggest that any solution will create a giant efficiency not previously seen.

I don't mean to derail, I'm a huge fan of all these projects.  To me understanding the economy of the game in relation to the history of it can help project the future of it.  Projects aren't interested in a generalized solution (rather they offer 1 specific p2p site), but I wonder if this market and its equilibrium might be used to secure itself by incentivizing bots to act as nodes/juror's: https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2015/06/15/3194/

At first it might not seem significant but maybe we aren't used to multiple issues being solved with a single change/system.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on June 26, 2015, 08:13:34 pm
Announcement: We have put up a sell wall at 40Nxt a share.

Previously, the shares being traded have pretty much all just been the ones that were dividended out. So Pangea itself hasn't raised any funds. We now want to move into the next phase of development, and we need to hire at least one more software developer.

So over the next while, we'll put up sell walls to meet our funding needs.

We'll discuss our plans for Pangea in the upcoming days and weeks, and have a test release after that.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on June 26, 2015, 08:37:15 pm
Notable recent happenings in the poker world
--millions of euros won by PLO bots on pokerstars (Pokerstars has far better security than other sites.)
--a bot has solved heads up limit poker
--a heads up no-limit poker played the best in the world, and although it lost, it was clearly better than the vast majority of heads up professional players.
--one of the best poker players in the world invented software which allows anyone to beat the highest SNG games. This software isn't even against current site's rules.

Clearly the bot problem is huge for centralized sites, and it will only get bigger as bots become better and more widespread.

It will be an even bigger for decentralized sites. Decentralized sites likely won't have a security team, won't be able to confiscate funds, and probably won't have verified logins. Pretty much a bot farm's dream.

There's also the issue of collusion but, for me, the bot problem is a much more serious one. Now one option is to make everything allowable. Likely, the regulars will be replaced by bots before long and casual players will only have the option to play against perfectly playing bots. Something tells me that isn't what they are looking for, and would prefer higher rake and playing real people (back to centralized sites).

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on June 26, 2015, 09:09:43 pm
I wanted to talk about something else. Daniel Negreanu recently talked about a high stakes challenge, where he'd play a fixed number of hands and bet on him making money. Part of his plan was to invite high stakes live players to join him at high stakes so he didn't only have to play the best 6 max players in the world.

He was told that would be impossible. Within milliseconds of him sitting down (due to seat scripts), the table would become full of the best 6max players in the world. Before anyone else had a chance to join him (even if they tried to simultaneously press the join table button), he'd be hunted and have a big waitlist at his table.

No one can play high stakes poker without facing five of the very best. Even for famous live high stakes pros, there is no possibility to play online poker for fun (maybe win a little, maybe lose a little). Either you are the best of the world or you are a fish.

Despite all its advantages, in some ways live poker has it much much better than online.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on June 26, 2015, 09:41:27 pm
I'll start to unveil my marketing plans next week, for when we go live, and feedback will be greatly appreciated since there will be time to change approaches. For now, I've been keeping busy and slowly accumulating a total of 7,500 followers on PangeaPoker along with my other cryptocurrency related accounts on Twitter (bitcoin0, supernetv, bitcoinmessages). Fun trivia is that philivey is following PangeaPoker there. By the way, retweets are greatly appreciated!


In addition to this, jl777 will shed some light about the 3 second chips and Pangea shortly, after done with InstantDex testing. First of all Valar will take his time discuss how Pangea is structured.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on June 26, 2015, 09:54:01 pm
Anyway, that leads us to Hosted Games, which is one of the main strands of our plan for Pangea. I see it as kind of like underground private games.

The idea is that, within the Pangea platform, anyone can open their own lobby. Players need to be accepted into a lobby, and there is no crossover of players. So a player could be invited to one lobby and be banned from another.

The Host's job would be ensuring good games for his lobby. So he can ban, or refuse to invite, any player he thinks is a bot. He would also, obviously, be responsible for drumming up players for his lobby of games. Since anyone can be a host, the Hosted Games system is decentralized. The idea is that the good hosts would attract vibrant lobbies, and the bad host's lobby will be empty and disappear.

In return, the Host will get half of the rake.

The major disadvantage of the Hosted Games system is that the player base is diluted. So there could be thousands of people on Pangea, but if they are spread over hundreds of different lobbies, then no games will be running. However, live poker manages without having to pool poker bases, we just need Pangea to become popular, and hopefully, with incentivized hosted (due to how much they can earn) plus low rake, that will happen. Plus, like anything else, probably a few lobbies will be wildly successful (Pareto principle and all that).

To start off with (until the numbers grow), we'll have two lobbies: a single managed poker lobby, plus a Wild West lobby. In the Wild West lobby, there'll be no controls. Play immediately. Bots can play. It'll probably be anonymous tables. In the managed lobby, we'll try and only have real people, and hopefully get fun games. People may have to wait for approval. Rules are yet to be determined, but if someone plays like a bot, we'll probably err on the side of banning them.

There'll be a need to identify players. The details haven't been figured out, but we don't want people to have to give passport or facebook details or anything like that. Pseudo-anonymous players are fine. Just have to figure out a way to link an identity to forum handles, or keybase.io or gpg signatures. We also want to allow referrals. So if a well known player vouches for another player, the second one will get invited. But if the new player isn't legit, then the referrer could also get kicked off a lobby.

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: jl777 on June 26, 2015, 10:48:26 pm
I'll start to unveil my marketing plans next week, for when we go live, and feedback will be greatly appreciated since there will be time to change approaches. For now, I've been keeping busy and slowly accumulating a total of 7,500 followers on PangeaPoker along with my other cryptocurrency related accounts on Twitter (bitcoin0, supernetv, bitcoinmessages). Fun trivia is that philivey is following PangeaPoker there. By the way, retweets are greatly appreciated!


In addition to this, jl777 will shed some light about the 3 second chips and Pangea shortly, after done with InstantDex testing. First of all Valar will take his time discuss how Pangea is structured.
caught up with buglist, ie no reported bugs, so have a bit of time

The first project I will do after InstantDEX is released is the 3 second chips for pangea using crypto777 tech. Some nice progress with SuperNET agents as we now have Java agents and soon should have several more languages.

I expect I will have time in July to get the 3 second CLOCK chip into testing

James
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: John Smith on June 28, 2015, 03:32:17 pm

There's also the issue of collusion but, for me, the bot problem is a much more serious one. Now one option is to make everything allowable. Likely, the regulars will be replaced by bots before long and casual players will only have the option to play against perfectly playing bots. Something tells me that isn't what they are looking for, and would prefer higher rake and playing real people (back to centralized sites).
One also notable point is the collusion + bots = a super problem.  Matt Janda and some others were commenting on this in the poker theory section of 2p2.  The consensus is the edge is soul crushing, probably worse for plo.  But something incredibly important to note, is that this is really related to the profitability of the game.  In other words, it would be less significant and detrimental, if their could still be a decent standard of profitability. 
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: John Smith on June 28, 2015, 04:25:43 pm
Anyway, that leads us to Hosted Games, which is one of the main strands of our plan for Pangea. I see it as kind of like underground private games.

The idea is that, within the Pangea platform, anyone can open their own lobby. Players need to be accepted into a lobby, and there is no crossover of players. So a player could be invited to one lobby and be banned from another.

The Host's job would be ensuring good games for his lobby. So he can ban, or refuse to invite, any player he thinks is a bot. He would also, obviously, be responsible for drumming up players for his lobby of games. Since anyone can be a host, the Hosted Games system is decentralized. The idea is that the good hosts would attract vibrant lobbies, and the bad host's lobby will be empty and disappear.

In return, the Host will get half of the rake.

The major disadvantage of the Hosted Games system is that the player base is diluted. So there could be thousands of people on Pangea, but if they are spread over hundreds of different lobbies, then no games will be running. However, live poker manages without having to pool poker bases, we just need Pangea to become popular, and hopefully, with incentivized hosted (due to how much they can earn) plus low rake, that will happen. Plus, like anything else, probably a few lobbies will be wildly successful (Pareto principle and all that).

To start off with (until the numbers grow), we'll have two lobbies: a single managed poker lobby, plus a Wild West lobby. In the Wild West lobby, there'll be no controls. Play immediately. Bots can play. It'll probably be anonymous tables. In the managed lobby, we'll try and only have real people, and hopefully get fun games. People may have to wait for approval. Rules are yet to be determined, but if someone plays like a bot, we'll probably err on the side of banning them.

There'll be a need to identify players. The details haven't been figured out, but we don't want people to have to give passport or facebook details or anything like that. Pseudo-anonymous players are fine. Just have to figure out a way to link an identity to forum handles, or keybase.io or gpg signatures. We also want to allow referrals. So if a well known player vouches for another player, the second one will get invited. But if the new player isn't legit, then the referrer could also get kicked off a lobby.
This is the exact reason for post 262.  Although it is slightly geared towards Pokererum's model it is still seemingly extremely applicable to your project.  Keeping in mind I have come to this problem from the player's perspective rather than the developer's perspective.  This is useful I believe because I see 'poker' and its evolution as natural (ie not accidental).

You have the exact idea I meant to point to, but I am not sure you fully describe the closed chain/market here.

In the diagram above the key components include paying bots/nodes to secure the private games, this lower level is like your "wild west".  The private tables, are your underground games, but of course we can think of them exactly like a new age version of a current day poker site/skin. 

What is important then is "new age sites", or "private games" are easy to create so there will be a free market for them. This is how you will solve security problems and create better offers for games.  Bots can't invite themselves to games and no one can complain about their field if they can make their own fields and join a plethora of other private games/fields.

The "wild west" is very helpful too.  This field will EITHER be a profitable one for the average of player OR it will be NOT profitable.  Of course if it is the latter no humans would play, but if it is the former, then bots and super human software will naturally arise and be nearly impossible to police. This is what forces us to make the "security" assumption that bots are an inevitability.  Fortunately we have them nearly solved already with public vs private tables.

We should note the bots in a profitable wild wild west environment will necessarily grow to the extent of the profitably vs the cost to run their hardware/software, they cannot continue to grow beyond a certain point, however they can evolve more and more efficient bot pools and hardware which COULD actually be useful.

What we want here is a free market for competition with respect to the private tables, which can then evolve freely to deal with security measures of the fields.  This should be held up in some sense by a free market for the evolution of bot/node farms from the wild wild west games.  If the wild west is not profitable enough for bots then fees could be paid (from highly profitable private games) like a form of rake back.  If the wild west is not profitable enough for humans, then no humans would play and so bots could not profit, therefore they would necessarily dial down the winrates for bots (ie make the game more profitable for humans).

Colluding pools of bots in the wild west becomes insignificant because the only useful pool worth paying fees/rake to (or playing in) is a trustworthy one. If we can look at the economics of the games from this perspective I think that it becomes very comparable to bitcoin's markets with respect to mining if we think of the "poker puzzle" as the proof of work.

I think all this is quite a relevant perspective although I do realize pokereum might work a little different than I envision with the diagram, it IS important to understand how all this would work and look from the players perspective.  I just want to see what kind of a response this gets and I do have some insight in relation to how this would work with respect to  the current centralized model or other projects. 


And I guess the most relevant question that is re-levant is how is rake determined in the wild west etc.

ty!
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on June 30, 2015, 07:45:33 am
Please allow the hosts of private lobbies to set the parameters for the game. Small blind and big blind size, optional antes and their size, number of seats, and game type.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on June 30, 2015, 09:18:03 am
Please allow the hosts of private lobbies to set the parameters for the game. Small blind and big blind size, optional antes and their size, number of seats, and game type.

That would be part of the plan. Though there would be limits based on what games were supported by the Pangea software.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on June 30, 2015, 06:54:54 pm
Please allow the hosts of private lobbies to set the parameters for the game. Small blind and big blind size, optional antes and their size, number of seats, and game type.

That would be part of the plan. Though there would be limits based on what games were supported by the Pangea software.

Of course, but even if only no-limit hold'em is included in the initial release, optional antes and blind/ante size adjustments would be great. The super high roller cash game is being broadcast by Poker Central on Twitch.tv the next couple of days. They started off playing with antes to encourage action, which as far as I know is not available on any cryptocurrency poker site, so that option would really set you apart. Then they decided the antes were taking too long to collect so they just had the big blind pay all the antes (turning a 400/800 game into a 400/1600 game), and Phil Ivey suggested that the button pay all the antes instead. That got me thinking that unique parameters would be a really special thing and would help keep the game fresh for people.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: rdanneskjoldr on June 30, 2015, 07:10:48 pm
Have you thought the option of not making hand histories available on the go? Maybe only once the hand finishes, but not having a dealer chat telling all the action, which software can use to know how the hand is going and help the player in many ways.
Yes, people prefer to have that info.. but i am sure they can let it go if it brings less ways to cheat.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on July 01, 2015, 08:05:31 am
Have you thought the option of not making hand histories available on the go? Maybe only once the hand finishes, but not having a dealer chat telling all the action, which software can use to know how the hand is going and help the player in many ways.
Yes, people prefer to have that info.. but i am sure they can let it go if it brings less ways to cheat.

Definitely something to be considered. I can see the advantages, though possibly in the long run, huds and bots will still be able to scrape the info from the screen--in which case the only one losing out would be the normal user who wants to check something about the hand.

Could be an option where the lobby owner chooses whether he wants it or not.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: EstefanTT on July 02, 2015, 04:47:31 pm
I'm a pro online on the highiest cash game tables I can find in my country (IP controlled, no .com field)

I'll give here my thoughts to help you guys think about it.

The bot control system seem pretty good to me. Keep thinking about it, it seem to be the good path !

Human collusion is not a bid deal. If your are good enough to understand the game and make money out of colluding with a friend at a couple tables you would win much more playing 8 tables seriously.

If you want volume, you want pros. I usually play 8 -10 tables / 5-6h / 6 days a week.
It's about the same as 90 recreational players, playing one table, 2 x 2 h / week.

To attract pros you ABSOLUTELY need an hand history compatible with holdem manager or pokertracker. That's all I always hear when I speak with other pros about BTC rooms ... "Is HM running on this room ? No ? Neh, I don't like to play without a HUD" ... We are too damn used to play with it.

In doubt you can produce an HH exactly equal to (ex.) Cakepoker (wich is compatible with HM and PK) and having only the name changed. So the community can figure out a simple python or autohotkey script to change the name and have stats. It would also make it esasier for HM and PK to accept your room because they would just have to change one simple line of code.

You also need to attract the pros with a low rake and a good straightforward rakeback system ( no bs system like bwin / PS and 888 have done it well). There is already plenty of bitcoin rooms with 2.5% rake with rakeback system. I would consider 2.5% as the maximum and aim 2% to hit hard omn the mentalities/news.

I hope my thoughts may have help you guys. Cheers :)

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on July 03, 2015, 06:59:45 am
Hi EstefanTT,

Thanks for your thoughts. About HUDs, I liked to use them myself, however I know there is a body of thought that HUDs are bad for the game and an unfair advantage. So that will have to be weighed up.

"Human collusion is not a big deal. If your are good enough to understand the game and make money out of colluding with a friend at a couple tables you would win much more playing 8 tables seriously."
These are exactly my thoughts too. It depends on the game, but for NL cash, I think you are spot on.

Regarding one pro having the same volume as 90 recreationals--sure, I agree with that. However, if the poker site has the same number of pros to recreationals, that's a 90:1 ratio which means the games are pretty terrible. So attracting recreational players is crucial for the game economy. I'm sure there'll be some pros around if the games are good.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: EstefanTT on July 04, 2015, 01:57:47 am
Running a HUD give you an advantage of course but anyone can have one. There are even free open source tracker with HUD now.

The thing is allowing HUD make possible to grow a big pool of pro making the room healthy and doesn't change anything for the recreational player who doesn't use one.

No HUD is no going to attract more recreational player but will seriously reduce the number of pros et regulars.

That beeing said, I agree that you need to attract recreational players. They are usually the ones who make the  table running.

Nowadays,  the classical online table is one fish and 5 regulars. When the fish leave, the regulars stop playing and look for another table with another weak player.

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: John Smith on July 04, 2015, 07:26:40 pm
You want the option of hudless fields or hud fields, ideally like a free market.  It is true the pros need and want hand history, and/or as typically this is how they secure the game.  In other words its not as necessary if its provably fair, but the security in that has to be a (near) perfect system. 
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: EstefanTT on July 05, 2015, 09:08:52 pm
I don't see HUDs only for security purpose but also to be able to play 10 tables without having to remember everygthing.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on July 07, 2015, 09:36:39 am
You want the option of hudless fields or hud fields, ideally like a free market.  It is true the pros need and want hand history, and/or as typically this is how they secure the game.  In other words its not as necessary if its provably fair, but the security in that has to be a (near) perfect system.

Good idea. In this decentralized hosted lobby system, the more options the better. HUD/NO-HUD should be an option open to lobby hosts. Pros may miss out because fish will go to no-HUD lobbies, but it should be a free market with choices.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on July 07, 2015, 05:36:18 pm
so I've had a thought regarding hosts that I am looking for some feedback on, since hosts will eventually run their own lobbies, and as a result for their work earn half of the rakes from their lobby

Do you think that

A) creating your own lobby and become a host should be free
B) it should require hosts to hold X amt of Pangea
C) it should initially require hosts to hold X amt of Pangea, then deteriorate or be removed

A - To me, the anology is like creating your own subreddit that you mod yourself, and get half the proceeds off, whilst Reddit gets the other half
B - You have interest not only with rakes, but with Pangea on the AE, which might transcend into other areas such as marketing and other cool contributions
C - Early backers receive some kind of edge for helping Pangea out of infancy, that turns into either a small one over-time or removed over-time

Hosts will be what makes Pangea, so feedback is greatly appreciated to make it the best experience possible.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: alphawar06 on July 07, 2015, 09:22:10 pm
A
C
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on July 09, 2015, 12:01:14 pm
There's a discussion about this project on reddit!

https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/comments/3cnthg/decentralized_cryptocurrency_poker_is_nearing/

Their post rambles somewhat but I think it gets the point across.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: John Smith on July 09, 2015, 05:26:27 pm
so I've had a thought regarding hosts that I am looking for some feedback on, since hosts will eventually run their own lobbies, and as a result for their work earn half of the rakes from their lobby

Do you think that

A) creating your own lobby and become a host should be free
B) it should require hosts to hold X amt of Pangea
C) it should initially require hosts to hold X amt of Pangea, then deteriorate or be removed

A - To me, the anology is like creating your own subreddit that you mod yourself, and get half the proceeds off, whilst Reddit gets the other half
B - You have interest not only with rakes, but with Pangea on the AE, which might transcend into other areas such as marketing and other cool contributions
C - Early backers receive some kind of edge for helping Pangea out of infancy, that turns into either a small one over-time or removed over-time

Hosts will be what makes Pangea, so feedback is greatly appreciated to make it the best experience possible.
By the sounds of it you are able to create a market for competition for these things so they can find their equilibrium, by FAR that is how you should set things up. No one can determine ideal rake, and any rake set is going to be arbitrarily done so. This has a negative effect on the ecology. It seems you have ability to do this, and I feel quite certain it is optimal for market discovery of ideal rake https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2015/06/13/3115/

There's a discussion about this project on reddit!

https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/comments/3cnthg/decentralized_cryptocurrency_poker_is_nearing/

Their post rambles somewhat but I think it gets the point across.
I'm not able to participate, and as others have pointed out big industry poker naturally feels such technology but also big industry poker also pays the forum ad revenue for the major poker communities.  I am definitely interested in finding like minds though, I suspect I have insight on the subject to offer: https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on July 09, 2015, 10:50:28 pm
Is the code being posted somewhere? Will it be? Somebody asked this question (https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/comments/3cnthg/decentralized_cryptocurrency_poker_is_nearing/csxg5lz) in the reddit thread and somebody responded that the Github hadn't been updated in 6 months...
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on July 10, 2015, 02:04:36 am
Is the code being posted somewhere? Will it be? Somebody asked this question (https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/comments/3cnthg/decentralized_cryptocurrency_poker_is_nearing/csxg5lz) in the reddit thread and somebody responded that the Github hadn't been updated in 6 months...

heya, you're looking for this, which is public at this stage https://github.com/bakerstreet221bsn/PangeaPoker https://github.com/valarmg/PangeaDealer

I read the thread and there are a lot of valid points like simplicity and fluctuations, which are two concerns I hold close to heart. About 2+2 and discussing on other forums, we will definitely do that, but as you can tell from the general consensus from pokerforums is that like many of us they've already heard about the next big thing a couple times, so personally I rather wait with this until we have something to show players, and a playmoney test release will not be very jaw dropping either, considering it'll primarily be about ironing out the software and generally - testing.

And about thread title, we'll start off rather centralized to get the business going and step by step work towards our goal of decentralization. For example, we need iDex and the 3 sec currency for realtime betting that James is working on to get all pieces of the puzzle to fit and then integrate with SN. Also, we're still working on solving few things as you can imagine, so in terms of how near fully decentralized poker is, by real world measures it is going rather fast, by crypto measures I guess it is considered a tortoise.

Also, you'll see some things from Hobofife on GitHub soon, as we just hired him again as software developer to speed things up.

I hope that clears things up a bit for you, and it's very cool to see so much interest.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: kunibopl on July 16, 2015, 09:33:24 am
when can we play?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on July 17, 2015, 07:28:47 am
when can we play?

We are still working away but we have underestimated the time it will take whenever we have mentioned a date. So probably best to just make the release when it's ready and not make premature announcements.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: BadAss on July 21, 2015, 07:31:57 pm
I fully understand the difficulty in this proces, but some updates to the investors would be nice...they told me that there should come some news about Pangea, but it is really quiet lately. Everything going well?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: 5000Bitcoins on July 22, 2015, 05:01:21 pm
I fully understand the difficulty in this proces, but some updates to the investors would be nice...they told me that there should come some news about Pangea, but it is really quiet lately. Everything going well?

Hi. Everything is going well, need more time than 13 days to show some real results from having an additional software developer.

I know there are some news coming on the crypto777 side soon.

Hobofife and Baker is working on the software. We're still withholding some plans for now, but rest assured once things are getting close we'll start to build momentum.  Me, James, Valar, Baker and Hobo are working in different ways towards our common goal, biding our time.

Maybe not too satisfactory, but for a lack of better words that is how it is right now.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: BadAss on July 22, 2015, 05:03:51 pm
It is all i just needed ;)

Keep up the work
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: mallorcaman on July 26, 2015, 07:48:16 am
Any news? possible dates? Im getting nervous regarding the lack of updates and transparency.

Regards

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on July 26, 2015, 08:27:19 am
when can we play?

We are still working away but we have underestimated the time it will take whenever we have mentioned a date. So probably best to just make the release when it's ready and not make premature announcements.

I fully understand the difficulty in this proces, but some updates to the investors would be nice...they told me that there should come some news about Pangea, but it is really quiet lately. Everything going well?

Hi. Everything is going well, need more time than 13 days to show some real results from having an additional software developer.

I know there are some news coming on the crypto777 side soon.

Hobofife and Baker is working on the software. We're still withholding some plans for now, but rest assured once things are getting close we'll start to build momentum.  Me, James, Valar, Baker and Hobo are working in different ways towards our common goal, biding our time.

Maybe not too satisfactory, but for a lack of better words that is how it is right now.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on July 27, 2015, 10:59:53 am
Other things that you should allow hosts to adjust to really differentiate Pangea from other poker sites: max/min buy-ins. Enable/disable option to run it twice, three, four times. 2-7 side game.

And as I mentioned before: options to adjust blinds, antes, mandatory/optional straddles.

If you do those things you will really get attention from the poker community, and once you've coded everything else, those options can't be too hard to add?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on July 28, 2015, 08:28:22 am
Other things that you should allow hosts to adjust to really differentiate Pangea from other poker sites: max/min buy-ins. Enable/disable option to run it twice, three, four times. 2-7 side game.

And as I mentioned before: options to adjust blinds, antes, mandatory/optional straddles.

If you do those things you will really get attention from the poker community, and once you've coded everything else, those options can't be too hard to add?

True. Can definitely consider those things at a later stage.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on July 29, 2015, 10:18:35 pm
Stellar has released a proof-of-concept for P2P poker

https://github.com/sacarlson/pokerth_accounting/wiki
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on July 30, 2015, 08:13:36 am
Stellar has released a proof-of-concept for P2P poker

https://github.com/sacarlson/pokerth_accounting/wiki

Had a quick look, and at the moment they trust players to play fair. So not sure if they have solved any of the difficult problems. Interesting though.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on August 20, 2015, 11:59:40 pm
Any progress this month?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on August 21, 2015, 01:02:08 pm
Any progress this month?

Unfortunately things are moving slow right now. The developer we tried to hire didn't end up being able to work for the project in the end, and the one who has been working all along hasn't been able to do much work on it recently.

We are thinking of refocusing and instead of going playmoney->centralized poker->decentralized poker, we'll just get the playmoney working and go directly to decentralized poker which will start to come on stream after some of the other superNET projects are up and running (instantDex, crypto777).

I imagine the lack of progress is disheartening to investors, but with a super low burn rate, the project doesn't have the time sensitive issues a normal startup would have (similar to other superNET projects). In addition, Pangea only gains its potency when part of a strong overall superNET ecosystem, so a delay in development right now might not affect the overall Pangea timeline. Just as pokereum needs a stable and strong ethereum, Pangea will need a stable and strong superNET, and we don't want to burn all our resources before that time.

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: John Smith on August 22, 2015, 05:21:20 pm
we'll just get the playmoney working and go directly to decentralized poker which will start to come on stream after some of the other superNET projects are up and running (instantDex, crypto777).
This is all bullshit.  Firstly you aren't working on decentralized poker, not what so ever.  You are working on secure p2p2 poker, which doesn't seem likely since your team can't even figure out the difference.  Y

Quote
I imagine the lack of progress is disheartening to investors, but with a super low burn rate, the project doesn't have the time sensitive issues a normal startup would have (similar to other superNET projects). In addition, Pangea only gains its potency when part of a strong overall superNET ecosystem, so a delay in development right now might not affect the overall Pangea timeline. Just as pokereum needs a stable and strong ethereum, Pangea will need a stable and strong superNET, and we don't want to burn all our resources before that time.
Your side told me pokereum doesn't likely have a solution,  so if you are are like them, then bullshit confirmed.  Investors disheartened?  Ya I will bet they are.  This project is clearly indefinite and your investors need to realize that. 

ANYONE can do what you are doing.  You have all sorts of solutions and systems and investor tokens and schemes, but nothing more.  Anytime someone wants updates its quite obvious what you or someone else says:  Oh oh were still working on stuff, its coming, it will be good, bad things happened, devs did this, devs did that, other projects too don't forget, awesomness in the works, be patient be more patient, we are waiting on larger projects. 

You don't know what decentralized poker is.  That is the problem, it is a buzz word floating around that is collecting money from unwary investors. 

How about some transparency here?

I've talked and read with this team, you don't have a full solution, you don't have rake solved and rake needs to be solved before you can think about implementing.  You don't have fast enough block times solved.  What kind of programmer start to code with out a solution?

Jokes in this thread.

Hire a programmer that know how to make an outline.  Then assemble a team that can follow that out line.  And give your investors their fucking money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fucking thieves.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: John Smith on August 22, 2015, 05:26:04 pm
Quote
The developer we tried to hire didn't end up being able to work for the project in the end, and the one who has been working all along hasn't been able to do much work on it recently.
Seriously wtf is this?  Does anyone accept this?  You hired someone that didn't work on the project, and the one who is working the whole time has done much?

GIVE THE MONEY BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: John Smith on August 22, 2015, 05:50:09 pm
Just wanted to give another update on this project.  Nothing is happening, there is no team getting anywhere.  We are looking for developers that can get things done, and hoping for more investors to come forward and support that nothing is getting anywhere.  Once we figure out what decentralized poker is we can then consider setting the goals and scope of our project straight.  If anyone has any information on what we are doing, or what we should be doing then please let us know.  As you can see other projects aren't doing shit either, so take that as a sign that your money should be with us, and you should give us more money.

Thx for all the support and belief in our BS!

Also if anyone has any solutions for all the unsolved problems we still have PLEASE LET US KNOW!!!
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Freebieservers on August 22, 2015, 06:19:05 pm
Any progress this month?

Unfortunately things are moving slow right now. The developer we tried to hire didn't end up being able to work for the project in the end, and the one who has been working all along hasn't been able to do much work on it recently.

We are thinking of refocusing and instead of going playmoney->centralized poker->decentralized poker, we'll just get the playmoney working and go directly to decentralized poker which will start to come on stream after some of the other superNET projects are up and running (instantDex, crypto777).

I imagine the lack of progress is disheartening to investors, but with a super low burn rate, the project doesn't have the time sensitive issues a normal startup would have (similar to other superNET projects). In addition, Pangea only gains its potency when part of a strong overall superNET ecosystem, so a delay in development right now might not affect the overall Pangea timeline. Just as pokereum needs a stable and strong ethereum, Pangea will need a stable and strong superNET, and we don't want to burn all our resources before that time.

If developers are your sole problem, I would want to sit down for discussion with you.
I have been working on an e-sports platform and while different, we've had our bit of involvement with a number of big name projects here and am glad to step in and be of assistance.

You may contact me at business@gamebet.gg or on superNet's slack

Regards
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on August 23, 2015, 11:35:15 am
Yes John Smith it's somewhat frustrating but delays for a project like this are quite normal. The good thing is that they are quick to respond with honest updates. As long as it gets done eventually and it is done well, it will be worth the wait. Just please make it innovative, devs, not just another plain poker site.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: jl777 on August 24, 2015, 12:20:28 am
Yes John Smith it's somewhat frustrating but delays for a project like this are quite normal. The good thing is that they are quick to respond with honest updates. As long as it gets done eventually and it is done well, it will be worth the wait. Just please make it innovative, devs, not just another plain poker site.
It might seem like no progress, but there are many infrastructure things that are needed and Pangea will build right on top of these SuperNET features.

fiat based crypto
realtime microtransactions
decentralized shuffling

Poker goes at a very fast pace and needs a 3 second blocktime, also having the prices based in fiat will reduce the barrier for adoption. This weekend I worked out a way for solving part of the decentralized shuffling, but it is not quite right yet.

Please blame me for any pangea delays as I promised to do the 3 second coin, but I have been delayed with finalizing InstantDEX and havent had a chance to complete the fast coin. A lot of the same infrastructure used for MGW and InstantDEX will be directly used by pangea though, so its not like it has been time spent for a totally separate project.

James
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: yassin54 on August 24, 2015, 09:13:30 am
Please blame me for any pangea delays as I promised to do the 3 second coin, but I have been delayed with finalizing InstantDEX and havent had a chance to complete the fast coin. A lot of the same infrastructure used for MGW and InstantDEX will be directly used by pangea though, so its not like it has been time spent for a totally separate project.

James
jl777 Made things in serenity, i am a SuperHolder  :P
and thank you again to intégrate new technology  ;)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: SamIbandii on August 24, 2015, 06:27:37 pm
There is a typo in the poll about Pangea asset dividend.
One of the anwers is 'now' and I think this should be 'No'.
Can this be corrected? I mean this could be confusing for non native English speaking respondents.

 
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Freebieservers on August 25, 2015, 07:44:10 pm
Just a head's up,

We'd taken a fair bit of interest in partaking in the dev end of this project as we're working on a number of similar concepts in-house. However, since our conversations couldn't lead to anything productive we couldn't make progress on that front.


Regards
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: yassin54 on August 25, 2015, 07:58:51 pm
However, since our conversations couldn't lead to anything productive we couldn't make progress on that front.
you can detail?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Freebieservers on August 25, 2015, 08:10:02 pm
However, since our conversations couldn't lead to anything productive we couldn't make progress on that front.
you can detail?
Thanks.

I am sure 5000Bitcoins will soon post an update :)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: yassin54 on August 25, 2015, 08:12:52 pm
I am sure 5000Bitcoins will soon post an update :)
No problem!  ;D
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: EstefanTT on September 01, 2015, 11:16:57 am
Maybe you should take a look a "PLAY". It's a decentralised plateforme to implement games.

They will be running on Grapheen, the same blockchain technology BitShares have. BitShares will soon release their 2.0 platform, they already tested 100000 transactions / sec and 1sec confirmation / block.
It will be 3 sec confirmation at the launch (less than 8 weeks now) for them to tweak a couple of things and adjust at 1 sec when the nodes are up to date.

As play as the same tech, I guess it's gonna be the place to be to implement decentralised games on blockchain ...

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: John Smith on September 15, 2015, 05:35:28 am


Poker goes at a very fast pace and needs a 3 second blocktime, also having the prices based in fiat will reduce the barrier for adoption. This weekend I worked out a way for solving part of the decentralized shuffling, but it is not quite right yet.

Please blame me for any pangea delays as I promised to do the 3 second coin, but I have been delayed with finalizing InstantDEX and havent had a chance to complete the fast coin. A lot of the same infrastructure used for MGW and InstantDEX will be directly used by pangea though, so its not like it has been time spent for a totally separate project.

James
Bah sometimes when one is having a shitty day it feels best to try to get upset at others for not fixing it.  I feel more shameful when the person that has talked with me and listened the most from these projects graciously accepts the blame (classy!).

Anyways, I may have asked this before, but I just keep thinking there is something to be discussed in regards to LC's. But that the outcome might not be inline with the perspective of this project.  Any thoughts are welcome though:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3l0082/extending_the_philosophy_of_lightning_channels_to/

Gl ALL!!
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: jl777 on October 09, 2015, 04:43:15 am


Poker goes at a very fast pace and needs a 3 second blocktime, also having the prices based in fiat will reduce the barrier for adoption. This weekend I worked out a way for solving part of the decentralized shuffling, but it is not quite right yet.

Please blame me for any pangea delays as I promised to do the 3 second coin, but I have been delayed with finalizing InstantDEX and havent had a chance to complete the fast coin. A lot of the same infrastructure used for MGW and InstantDEX will be directly used by pangea though, so its not like it has been time spent for a totally separate project.

James
Bah sometimes when one is having a shitty day it feels best to try to get upset at others for not fixing it.  I feel more shameful when the person that has talked with me and listened the most from these projects graciously accepts the blame (classy!).

Anyways, I may have asked this before, but I just keep thinking there is something to be discussed in regards to LC's. But that the outcome might not be inline with the perspective of this project.  Any thoughts are welcome though:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3l0082/extending_the_philosophy_of_lightning_channels_to/

Gl ALL!!
lightening channels have some issues that make it not so good for realtime poker.

Latest release (https://github.com/jl777/btcd) is working with the original pangea GUI with playmoney. it uses my decentralized poker protocol at the low level and is about 1 second per turn using a 9 player localhost (bots on all places). even over a modem network, 3 seconds per turn should be achievable as a full 9 player hand takes about 4mb of data transfer, assuming 1 minute for that it is a bit more than 100Kb/sec

mr_e [3:28 PM]
here is the github repo: https://github.com/mr-e-/Pangea-Ugly-GUI

mr_e [3:28 PM]
it is forked off btcds project
quickets way to test is to run the node js app
and browse to http://localhost:8081/pretty-table/16542516387741355680

if you want to play as a second player then, http://localhost:8081/pretty-table/16542516387741355680?playerId=1

still very early, but functional enough to play hands against bots or other players. Now that the basics are working, I will move onto converting the playmoney to real money, using peggy (PAX).

All the nodes are in consensus and are creating verifiable hand histories. Each decrypted card generates an audit trail during the card dealing phase, so if any disagrements, it can be determined who is messing around.

What is left in the core is to deal with player disconnect without disrupting the game, higher level abstractions like tournaments and multitable, and of course fiat denominated betting.

James
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: jl777 on October 09, 2015, 04:55:04 am
thanks to btcddev who got an uglygui working in record time and to mr_e who ported the original pangeagui into the uglygui framework. this appears to be a much more efficient path to bringing core api alive as in less than 2 weeks, we went from no working GUI that uses the pangea core to a functioning pretty GUI (though this was enabled by the fact the original pangea GUI was already there.

and mr_e having poker experience in addition to coding is noticing many of the issues that otherwise wont be found until end user testing.

The host determines a rake of 0.0% to 1% for the host, pangea has a 0.5% rake, so the games will have a 0.5% to 1.5% rake, depending on the host. The host will need to run a node that can accept incoming connections. Using an approach similar to the RAFT consensus protocol, the host is just managing the state of each hand and does not directly control any funds.

The funds will be handled by the blockchain and will be fully decentralized. In order to reduce bloat of the blockchain (critical for any high volume application), I will be using lchain type of methods to minimize the number of blockchain transactions that will be needed.

It has been less than a month since I started coding the pangea core, but building on the existing SuperNET infrastructure, once I got a secure card shuffling/dealing algo, things came together really quickly.

There are still more things to be done, but the hardest part has been completed. Pangea has a realtime poker protocol that is fast enough for 9 players and it handles facedown cards that can be conditionally revealed or not and even player disconnects will be able to be handled (eta next week for that)

James
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: lucky88888 on October 09, 2015, 10:57:40 am
can't wait to play it  :o
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: CoinHoarder on October 24, 2015, 03:59:43 am
I'm interested in what you guys think of my design of a decentralized poker network. No offense, but I think your collusion and multi-accounting protection is not very well thought out. There has been little to no talk of it ITT so excuse me if I am wrong. Any poker game expecting to cater to greater than 2 player games must have some sort of system in place to combat multi-accounting and collusion. I think some collaboration could be nice for us both, as I feel like I have at least a couple genuinely good ideas in my design. I honestly don't care whether a bad ass decentralized poker network gets built on Nxt, SuperNet, or Bitshares, just the fact that it exists will do for me. My design is centered around Bitshares though. Here is the latest version of my design: docdro.id/NZf3LyG
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: jl777 on October 24, 2015, 05:23:30 am
I'm interested in what you guys think of my design of a decentralized poker network. No offense, but I think your collusion and multi-accounting protection is not very well thought out. There has been little to no talk of it ITT so excuse me if I am wrong. Any poker game expecting to cater to greater than 2 player games must have some sort of system in place to combat multi-accounting and collusion. I think some collaboration could be nice for us both, as I feel like I have at least a couple genuinely good ideas in my design. I honestly don't care whether a bad ass decentralized poker network gets built on Nxt, SuperNet, or Bitshares, just the fact that it exists will do for me. My design is centered around Bitshares though. Here is the latest version of my design: docdro.id/NZf3LyG
Our thinking is that nothing will be as effective at anti-collusion as the freemarket.

The pangea hosts will offer whatever sort of reputation system, etc that the market wants the most.

Pangea solves the realtime mental poker problem and also will use the blockchain to enforce all the funds, but there is certainly possibility of some sort of reputation system to be used by pangea hosts. However that would be something run on top of the baseline pangea system

James
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on October 24, 2015, 08:15:15 am
I'm interested in what you guys think of my design of a decentralized poker network. No offense, but I think your collusion and multi-accounting protection is not very well thought out. There has been little to no talk of it ITT so excuse me if I am wrong. Any poker game expecting to cater to greater than 2 player games must have some sort of system in place to combat multi-accounting and collusion. I think some collaboration could be nice for us both, as I feel like I have at least a couple genuinely good ideas in my design. I honestly don't care whether a bad ass decentralized poker network gets built on Nxt, SuperNet, or Bitshares, just the fact that it exists will do for me. My design is centered around Bitshares though. Here is the latest version of my design: docdro.id/NZf3LyG

Seems very well thought out in a theoretical and ideal world sense, but doesn't sound very practical from a technical/implementation point of view. I especially can't see the reversible chips idea working.

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: CoinHoarder on October 24, 2015, 09:29:09 pm
I'm interested in what you guys think of my design of a decentralized poker network. No offense, but I think your collusion and multi-accounting protection is not very well thought out. There has been little to no talk of it ITT so excuse me if I am wrong. Any poker game expecting to cater to greater than 2 player games must have some sort of system in place to combat multi-accounting and collusion. I think some collaboration could be nice for us both, as I feel like I have at least a couple genuinely good ideas in my design. I honestly don't care whether a bad ass decentralized poker network gets built on Nxt, SuperNet, or Bitshares, just the fact that it exists will do for me. My design is centered around Bitshares though. Here is the latest version of my design: docdro.id/NZf3LyG
Our thinking is that nothing will be as effective at anti-collusion as the freemarket.

The pangea hosts will offer whatever sort of reputation system, etc that the market wants the most.

Pangea solves the realtime mental poker problem and also will use the blockchain to enforce all the funds, but there is certainly possibility of some sort of reputation system to be used by pangea hosts. However that would be something run on top of the baseline pangea system

James

It will be interesting to see how that works out. It seems you guys will be the first decentralized poker app out on the market, so I wish you guys luck. I think Pokereum is interesting too, but they combine two things a majority people in the poker world generally dislike.... fast fold poker and bots. So, I like your project better. :)

Seems very well thought out in a theoretical and ideal world sense, but doesn't sound very practical from a technical/implementation point of view. I especially can't see the reversible chips idea working.

I got you. I agree the design is very complicated and would take a long time to implement on a technical level. There are a few things that still need to be worked out. I also am not crazy about the reversible chips idea, but it was the best I could come up with.

Well.. hopefully you can get a couple ideas from my paper if that is all. I doubt I will ever build it honestly.. I don't have enough free time and the Bitshares community seems disinterested. Good luck to your project! I am of the opinion that we should decentralized everything! ;D

Cheers
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: yassin54 on October 24, 2015, 10:13:35 pm
You are Welcome @CoinHoarder!  :)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: qqNxt on October 25, 2015, 07:50:29 am
Appreciate your input. Thanks CoinHoarder  :)
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: valarmg on October 25, 2015, 08:13:24 am
I got you. I agree the design is very complicated and would take a long time to implement on a technical level. There are a few things that still need to be worked out. I also am not crazy about the reversible chips idea, but it was the best I could come up with.

Well.. hopefully you can get a couple ideas from my paper if that is all. I doubt I will ever build it honestly.. I don't have enough free time and the Bitshares community seems disinterested. Good luck to your project! I am of the opinion that we should decentralized everything! ;D

Cheers
The paper is very well written and thought out, and from a poker point of view, I find myself agreeing with most of what's in there. I just struggle to see how the main concepts can be implemented.

For Pangea, we are concentrating on getting working decentralized poker working first (that's difficult enough), then afterwards figuring out dealing with bots/collusion. We do have a plan though. Our overall vision is that there will be hosts who bring the players together to play under their banner. The host's job is to bring in players, and to make sure the games are good, and in return the host receives rake. Part of ensuring good games, is that the host verifies that each person is a real person and not a bot. They are then banned for bad behavior. Bots et al. can make some money, but that's the same as centralized sites, and good hosts will make sure it's hard for them to return if banned. It's up to players to watch out for suspicious behavior and report it (similar to how it is presently). The main problem is that each host's community becomes a walled garden, but the idea is that the free market ensures that several large and competent hosts will create viable games.

If you have free time and skills, and aren't going to be working on the bitshares version, maybe you'd like to get involved with helping Pangea.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: NXT ENTERPRISE on November 20, 2015, 06:10:43 am
Is there anything new on this?

I am planning to fund my NXT and then move into assets.

Very hard to see what is alive and what is dead?

Even if seemingly alive - what is on its death march from no activity...

Regards...
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Cassius on November 20, 2015, 08:56:57 am
Is there anything new on this?

I am planning to fund my NXT and then move into assets.

Very hard to see what is alive and what is dead?

Even if seemingly alive - what is on its death march from no activity...

Regards...

Very much alive. James is working on it now I believe.
If you join Slack you will have better access to information about ongoing projects.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: NXT ENTERPRISE on November 20, 2015, 09:06:50 am
Is there anything new on this?

I am planning to fund my NXT and then move into assets.

Very hard to see what is alive and what is dead?

Even if seemingly alive - what is on its death march from no activity...

Regards...

Very much alive. James is working on it now I believe.
If you join Slack you will have better access to information about ongoing projects.

Ok great to hear.

I am watching trying to see what assets are going to manifest..

Thanks for the answer
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: John Smith on November 21, 2015, 04:53:45 pm
We can certainly move beyond much of this especially since the author other bitshers d poker paper does in fact know what effective rake is:

https://www.docdroid.net/NZf3LyG/distributed-poker-brainstorm-v04.pdf.html

Quote
... authorities out will lower the costs (effective rake) for players.

Effective rake (would like to know where you got the term) is a phrase I have been espousing to the players across as many significant forums as I could.  It might be that or the recent poker stars rake policy changes that has caused the collective consciousness of the players to evolve their understanding of rake % vs effective rake, nonetheless there is much discussion going on about the subject: https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2015/11/07/effective-rake-is-real-now/

Here is some insight on the subject:

https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2014/11/10/definition-effective-rake/
https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2015/07/26/levating-an-effective-rake-standard/
https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2015/07/15/the-difficulties-of-creating-and-maintaining-and-effective-rake-standard/
https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2015/01/21/observations-on-trivial-rake-targeting/
https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2015/01/20/a-global-stable-monetary-unit-the-largest-hidden-factor-of-effective-rake/
https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2015/01/10/the-importance-of-relating-online-poker-to-an-e-currency-network-and-hidden-factor-of-effective-rake/
https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2014/12/06/the-problem-of-measuring-effective-rake/
https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/the-intrinsic-value-of-effective-rake/

Players and industry peoples are starting to understand the definition but not at all quite its purpose for existence.  Not only is our understanding and use of effective rake an effective political tool that helps the average player understand the deceptive policies sites use to profit more from the players, but effective rake as a profitability standard really does solve ALL of the above problems you listed.

We need to think about poker in terms of a profitability standard that could theoretically exist.  In such a game where the "sites" offered such a standard we MUST assume that bots would necessarily arise.  But there is a really important and seemingly simple conjecture here that these bots not over game the economy to a negative roi%.   Such a bot invested environment can be assumed to be of the most difficult poker to play, or in other words no human could ever expect to win in the long run regardless if the bots could play perfect GTO poker or not, yet we still might even expect SOME humans to play (Poker Stars "employs" many such players and has more plans for more such players!).

There can be no real collusion vs bots that are tending towards GTO, nor would I think there would be any public out cry if a human player found some form of software exploits (or hardware or whatever), and one could argue such an evolutionary race might be overall beneficial to mankind.  The profitability then of course is basically and generally given out as rakeback, and could be evenly given out to bots and humans or perhaps not.

Then, depending on how pangea or pokererum or any other d poker project decides to design their project, there arises the possibility that this underlying bot ring could be used as an infrastructure for individual private games, rooms, or sites.

THIS is what we should mean by free market, but this may or may not be applicable to this or other projects.

These private rooms pay rake to the underlying bot ring via directly or through a general rakeback, in exchange for what must be a secure game (otherwise there is no market).  The conjecture here again, and especially depending on the parameters, is that you would need AND have a decentralized node pool, since it could be arranged that the bot pool IS also decentralized (other wise there could be no security for the public bot infested pool).

I do expect both these major conjecture to hold as true as bitcoin's conjecture did.

Then what is dissolved is any need to solve any possible complaints such as collusion, bots, an other profitability or security complaints, because now the onus can be separated from the provider of the network (bots) and the organizer of the game (sites, room, game).

We should understand, and I think your paper did not at all consider this, an effective rake standard allows us to do things we never considered before, especially in relation to a bot pool that will seemingly likely hit gto within 1 year, namely we would be able to QUANTIFY things like bounties for security leaks or for example collusion problems.  If someone is wronged while playing in a private game that person and the organizer can arbitrate a very quantified resolution.  So what we are really doing is restructuring the economy of the game in a way that many of the paradoxical problems disappear.

You for example might decide you want to play on a site that requires bio meterics, I for example think that's insane in this day and age, so I'll play on sites that offer a super low effective rake standard :)

I also think you of all peoples might enjoy this satirical paper: http://fermatslibrary.com/s/ideal-poker-and-asymptotically-ideal-poker
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: John Smith on November 21, 2015, 05:58:24 pm
Any poker game expecting to cater to greater than 2 player games must have some sort of system in place to combat multi-accounting and collusion.
Then we should see this as a false statement in regards to proposing and implementation of p2p poker and dispel this myth across the communities as fast as we can.  Satoshi did NOT solve solve the banking system but rather provide a transferable utility (money!) that does not have a manipulable supply.  In terms of poker we should want to provide the chips and the cards and the transfer of value, but not the sites/banks/casinos themselves.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: ThankYouMaam on December 08, 2015, 07:09:19 pm
Any updates?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: tolstoy on December 22, 2015, 12:40:28 am
Cepheus is the first computer program to play an essentially perfect game of poker.

Cepheus Poker Project
poker.srv.ualberta.ca/

AI poker-master program developed that can never make a mistake or lose to a human
www. electronicproducts.com/Programming/Software/AI_poker_master_program_developed_that_can_never_make_a_mistake_or_lose_to_a_human.aspx
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: prometheus on December 24, 2015, 01:40:43 am
Any updates?

?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: EstefanTT on December 27, 2015, 05:58:47 pm
Is there a better place than this thread to keep in touch with the progress of this project ?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: yassin54 on December 27, 2015, 06:29:07 pm
Is there a better place than this thread to keep in touch with the progress of this project ?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
try slack supernet, you can look updates  ;)
contacted "Noash" for an invitation https://nxtforum.org/index.php?action=profile;u=170
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: EstefanTT on December 27, 2015, 06:38:42 pm
Thanks

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: mallorcaman on January 18, 2016, 10:07:00 am
I hate to do it, but I decided to move after this investment, just dont get a good feeling about it anymore. I will still be watching just in case I do need to jump back in the ship. Good luck all
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Kevinrasf on January 18, 2016, 10:38:47 am
I hate to do it, but I decided to move after this investment, just dont get a good feeling about it anymore. I will still be watching just in case I do need to jump back in the ship. Good luck all

Is this because you feel there are too little updates?

If so I think its better to join the Pangea group and ask, someone will most likely help you out there.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: yassin54 on January 18, 2016, 04:51:41 pm
From Slack SuperNet, By jl777

Code: [Select]
the version from a few months ago is for devs, not easy to setup
i will port it to iguana as soon as the networking supports some high level routing API
i am currently debugging the high level routing API, more details in #iguana
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: EstefanTT on February 26, 2016, 01:50:00 am
I checked slack supernet but I couldn't find any updates.

It could give more confidence in the projects for investors if some updates were given in this thread. Something like an weekly quick summary.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: shmoula on March 11, 2016, 01:40:33 pm
+1440

I checked slack supernet but I couldn't find any updates.

It could give more confidence in the projects for investors if some updates were given in this thread. Something like an weekly quick summary.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: EstefanTT on March 11, 2016, 01:56:51 pm
+1440

I checked slack supernet but I couldn't find any updates.

It could give more confidence in the projects for investors if some updates were given in this thread. Something like an weekly quick summary.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
I'm not sure to understand your coment ...

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: shmoula on March 11, 2016, 02:02:30 pm
something like I would like to have updates here on weekly base or so

+1440

I checked slack supernet but I couldn't find any updates.

It could give more confidence in the projects for investors if some updates were given in this thread. Something like an weekly quick summary.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
I'm not sure to understand your coment ...

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: carambola on April 02, 2016, 12:00:37 am
Now that SecureAE is gone is this asset traded anywhere? Things are looking rather bleak with no updates & no exchange.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Tosch110 on April 04, 2016, 01:18:50 am
Now that SecureAE is gone is this asset traded anywhere? Things are looking rather bleak with no updates & no exchange.

you can still trade it in your Nxt wallet
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Peter2516 on April 06, 2016, 06:07:15 am
Now that SecureAE is gone is this asset traded anywhere? Things are looking rather bleak with no updates & no exchange.
Some updates in https://sprnt.slack.com/messages/pangea/
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: bolenath on November 08, 2016, 06:50:26 pm
Is this project still running??

I started working on a similar project back in 2013 after I was playing BTC poker at sealswithclubs.
Then something happened and I wasn't able to continue with the project.
Anyways, I believe this project can succeed in the long run if there will be option to use multiple digital currecies as payment method, and even add options for using eg "paysafecard" and similar systems..  So in other words You buy let's say 5000 pangeachips inside the game with any of the digital currencies, like NXT, BTC LTC or with anonymous cash options. These chips are then used to buy-in for tourneys, sit'n-gos, cash games and so on.

The second most important thing is that you build web client, stand alone client, and mobile/tablet apps.
A lot of pokerplayers move around a lot, and they need these options..

Finally, good luck!!

P.S. I have been playing poker all around for some fifteen years on professional level, and been in the crypto communities since bitcoin was 3 bux a pop. If you would like me to get involved in the project on some level, plz let me know..
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: barbierir on November 08, 2016, 11:35:11 pm
Is this project still running??

I started working on a similar project back in 2013 after I was playing BTC poker at sealswithclubs.
Then something happened and I wasn't able to continue with the project.
Anyways, I believe this project can succeed in the long run if there will be option to use multiple digital currecies as payment method, and even add options for using eg "paysafecard" and similar systems..  So in other words You buy let's say 5000 pangeachips inside the game with any of the digital currencies, like NXT, BTC LTC or with anonymous cash options. These chips are then used to buy-in for tourneys, sit'n-gos, cash games and so on.

The second most important thing is that you build web client, stand alone client, and mobile/tablet apps.
A lot of pokerplayers move around a lot, and they need these options..

Finally, good luck!!

P.S. I have been playing poker all around for some fifteen years on professional level, and been in the crypto communities since bitcoin was 3 bux a pop. If you would like me to get involved in the project on some level, plz let me know..

Yes, still running and my understanding is that it has been mostly coded but it first needed other services in order to be completed. The fact is that Pangea is part of a much larger project called Supernet (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1644070.0) that has been in the works for 2 years. Now Supernet is almost ready for delivery with Komodo (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1605144.0) ico ending soon and the launch of Iguana (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1605144.msg16807253#msg16807253) wallet. I believe that with the amazing speed of James coding and the new funds for development it's entirely possible that Pangea will be ready in 2017

Ah and it does have all the features you listed above!  :D

Please join the community on Supernet slack (http://slackinvite.supernet.org/), there is a channel for #pangea
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: Jacinto on February 13, 2017, 09:35:51 am
Any update about this project? where to find it?
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: barbierir on February 13, 2017, 09:51:51 am
Any update about this project? where to find it?

The Iguana wallet for SuperNet (https://supernet.org/en) has been released a couple of weeks ago and it's actively being debugged and improved, once it's stable James will start adding DEX, Pax and other features that are needed for also Pangea to work properly. He think he could have Pangea running by the end of this year.
Title: Re: Pangea Poker - asset 6883271355794806507
Post by: e on April 29, 2017, 11:38:53 am
ok
domain:  pangearpoker.com is now waiting here.
elective-stereophonic
elective-stereophonic
assembly
assembly