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NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
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Author Topic: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE  (Read 88964 times)

jl777

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #260 on: September 25, 2014, 07:09:51 am »

Garp reported not receiving a dividend he expected and I looked into it and I found an error.

I made a mistake in the last dividend release. I must have forgotten to set the timestamp, because the dividending was done based on when I ran it (about 21:45 GMT [Timestamp: 26214412]) instead of 14:00 GMT (Timestamp 26186400).
Thanks valarmg to confirm.
Any suggestions how this could be resolved?
selling before the dividend is received is not a good practice
the specific time was up to valarmg and he chose (inadvertently) 21:45
I suggest that people wait for the dividend to actually be sent out and not try to sell before this to capture the pre ex-dividend price

James

I read this as an intention not to resolve the error. If that's indeed the case, I don't like this answer ... at all  >:(
You guys seem to be able to do the right thing all the time. But not now?

If the time of the dividend payout could be randomly chosen, then why did the dividend announcement specifically mention "The ex-dividend block will be as of the close of the funding.", which was set @ 14:00 GMT (Timestamp 26186400)?

Changing the rules after an announcement is not a good practice ;)
I'm sorry to say, but this could be a precedent.

Suppose: some Asset Issuer announces a big dividend for tomorrow. It could push up the price. Then don't pay the dividend for a fews days, or weeks, since based on your statement the timing can be changed and chosen @random afterwards... In the mean time, traders place ask and bid orders based on wrong information  ???

I wonder what this wonderfull community thinks about such practices. And what could it mean for the AE in general?
Would the The-Lawyer-of-NXT have an opinion about this?

I kindly ask James and valarmg to think about this and reconsider
I believe I further clarified that it was up to valarmg to set the time. It did happen within 8 hours of 1400, which is within one business day if you want to get all legal about this. I do not believe I guaranteed that the dividend block would be exactly at 1400 GMT did I? Please show me that post.

Since there are always some possibilities of human error I suggest that until a dividend is paid out dont assume it will be as of a specific time, until it goes out maybe there could be some changes. This seems to be a reasonable thing.

So, let us set this precedent. From now on, regardless of what specific time a dividend is supposed to be, until it is sent out there is some doubt as to the exact time. We will use reasonable efforts to assure the accuracy of the dividend block, but cannot guarantee it to the hour.

James
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jl777

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #261 on: September 25, 2014, 07:12:19 am »


I suggest that people wait for the dividend to actually be sent out and not try to sell before this to capture the pre ex-dividend price

James

Thanks for the suggestion, but just to let people know:
First, I did not sell to capture the pre ex-dividend price but because I wanted to free some funds to diversify. But my reason should be completely irrelevant.
Second, on average I sold @ a lower prices than the ex-dividend price. So I made a loss because I sold and as long as I don't receive the dividend as promised I make a second loss.

The first loss is my responsibility, no problem. But the second loss isn't my responsibilty, as confirmed by valarmg, so I think it's a fair request to have it eliminated.
If you have such an issue with this, make a claim against valarmg who is doing these dividends on a volunteer basis, not to mention all the other fine work he is doing.

Let us have a nice legal trial and everything. We can pick an impartial judge and you can make your legal case for the claim against valarmg. I will defend him.

Is this what you want to do?

James
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bitdraw

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #262 on: September 25, 2014, 07:16:30 am »


I suggest that people wait for the dividend to actually be sent out and not try to sell before this to capture the pre ex-dividend price

James

Thanks for the suggestion, but just to let people know:
First, I did not sell to capture the pre ex-dividend price but because I wanted to free some funds to diversify. But my reason should be completely irrelevant.
Second, on average I sold @ a lower prices than the ex-dividend price. So I made a loss because I sold and as long as I don't receive the dividend as promised I make a second loss.

The first loss is my responsibility, no problem. But the second loss isn't my responsibilty, as confirmed by valarmg, so I think it's a fair request to have it eliminated.

how many assets are we talking here?
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garp

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #263 on: September 25, 2014, 07:40:03 am »

I do not believe I guaranteed that the dividend block would be exactly at 1400 GMT did I? Please show me that post.

I don't want to get legal at all. But I thought Nxt had some ambition in the finacial world. And I was wondering what this practice could have as an effect on that.

in https://nxtforum.org/nxtventures/nxtventure-the-way-for-the-most-promising-enterprises-to-get-ae-listing/msg99772/#msg99772
you say "The ex-dividend block".

As far as I understand the blockchain, a block has a very exact timestamp. So the dividend ANN refered to an exact timestamp.

I wanted to wait selling because i wanted to receive the privatebet dividend. I don't see anything wrong with that. You suggest now, after the error, I could have waited, but I did not see any reason to, because until then I believed assets were going to be transferred as announced.

I understand all the human error logic. Off course that can happen. But it's still an error. Why should i pay for an error that's not mine?
If you want me to take the loss, I already did. I don't have a choice, do I, since it is up to valarmg to pay the dividends. I can't come and get them?

I can understand errors occur. And I can understand it is difficult to correct errors. But hey, can't you creative guys think of something?.
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garp

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #264 on: September 25, 2014, 07:41:19 am »

how many assets are we talking here?

500 NxtVenture, so 50 privatebet's
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jl777

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #265 on: September 25, 2014, 07:48:26 am »

I do not believe I guaranteed that the dividend block would be exactly at 1400 GMT did I? Please show me that post.

I don't want to get legal at all. But I thought Nxt had some ambition in the finacial world. And I was wondering what this practice could have as an effect on that.

in https://nxtforum.org/nxtventures/nxtventure-the-way-for-the-most-promising-enterprises-to-get-ae-listing/msg99772/#msg99772
you say "The ex-dividend block".

As far as I understand the blockchain, a block has a very exact timestamp. So the dividend ANN refered to an exact timestamp.

I wanted to wait selling because i wanted to receive the privatebet dividend. I don't see anything wrong with that. You suggest now, after the error, I could have waited, but I did not see any reason to, because until then I believed assets were going to be transferred as announced.

I understand all the human error logic. Off course that can happen. But it's still an error. Why should i pay for an error that's not mine?
If you want me to take the loss, I already did. I don't have a choice, do I, since it is up to valarmg to pay the dividends. I can't come and get them?

I can understand errors occur. And I can understand it is difficult to correct errors. But hey, can't you creative guys think of something?.
If the person that bought the 500 NXTventure and got the dividend would send them to you that would solve this, but short of that the dividend was sent.

I didnt mention a specific block. I said it would be after the ICO was closed. Maybe it was ambiguous, but without a specific block number, there is no specific block number. I do not want valarmg to be responsible for this as he is working hard.

I dont want to set any precedent about the dividend having to be as of a specific block, but as long as that is understood if you are willing to go 50/50 on this, I can send you 25 Privatebet to settle this grievance

James
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cc001

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #266 on: September 25, 2014, 07:50:23 am »

I do not believe I guaranteed that the dividend block would be exactly at 1400 GMT did I? Please show me that post.

I don't want to get legal at all. But I thought Nxt had some ambition in the finacial world. And I was wondering what this practice could have as an effect on that.

in https://nxtforum.org/nxtventures/nxtventure-the-way-for-the-most-promising-enterprises-to-get-ae-listing/msg99772/#msg99772
you say "The ex-dividend block".

As far as I understand the blockchain, a block has a very exact timestamp. So the dividend ANN refered to an exact timestamp.

I wanted to wait selling because i wanted to receive the privatebet dividend. I don't see anything wrong with that. You suggest now, after the error, I could have waited, but I did not see any reason to, because until then I believed assets were going to be transferred as announced.

I understand all the human error logic. Off course that can happen. But it's still an error. Why should i pay for an error that's not mine?
If you want me to take the loss, I already did. I don't have a choice, do I, since it is up to valarmg to pay the dividends. I can't come and get them?

I can understand errors occur. And I can understand it is difficult to correct errors. But hey, can't you creative guys think of something?.

My objective view from outsite:
james: I got it the same way as garp, that this 14 GMT block decides how many assets anybody has.
garp: jep, you should have wait before selling you assets to be sure to get the dividends.

solution: what about a compromise: james sends 25 privatebet (half the missing amount) to garp, everybody has some losses because of some mistakes, but the involved amounts of PrivateBet are not that huge, you both will absorb it from the financial point of view ;)
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cc001

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #267 on: September 25, 2014, 07:51:09 am »

I dont want to set any precedent about the dividend having to be as of a specific block, but as long as that is understood if you are willing to go 50/50 on this, I can send you 25 Privatebet to settle this grievance

hehe :D
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garp

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #268 on: September 25, 2014, 09:10:28 am »

if you are willing to go 50/50 on this, I can send you 25 Privatebet to settle this grievance

James

I realize you and valarmg must be working hard, and appreciate it.

I kindly requested to check the dividend payment. Valarmg confirmed there was an error and I thanked him for that. I don't blame anybody.

Still not convinced i made a mistake, nor happy, but I'll take the offer. Valarmg has the account number.

garp
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garp

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #269 on: September 25, 2014, 09:21:31 am »

I'm not trying to complicate things but if I check NxtReporting, it says the account still holds 319 NxtVenture, while blockexplorer and NRS indicate correctly they are sold.
So I suppose thats a NxtReporting bug. Ah well, still learning what we can trust.
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cc001

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #270 on: September 25, 2014, 09:31:53 am »

I'm not trying to complicate things but if I check NxtReporting, it says the account still holds 319 NxtVenture, while blockexplorer and NRS indicate correctly they are sold.
So I suppose thats a NxtReporting bug. Ah well, still learning what we can trust.

Yep, it's a known issue with cashing in NxtReporting. We'll reset the cache of your account, should be shown correctly soon.
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jl777

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #271 on: September 25, 2014, 06:23:17 pm »

if you are willing to go 50/50 on this, I can send you 25 Privatebet to settle this grievance

James

I realize you and valarmg must be working hard, and appreciate it.

I kindly requested to check the dividend payment. Valarmg confirmed there was an error and I thanked him for that. I don't blame anybody.

Still not convinced i made a mistake, nor happy, but I'll take the offer. Valarmg has the account number.

garp
sent 1421233991748942330
when neither side is happy, it is a good indication the deal was fair
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garp

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #272 on: September 25, 2014, 08:58:34 pm »

sent 1421233991748942330
when neither side is happy, it is a good indication the deal was fair

25 arrived. Since you couldn't reclaim them from someboby else, I realize it 's from your pocket and appreciate it.

Good luck with the SuperNet. Bought some additional ones to support your efforts.
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allbits

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #273 on: September 27, 2014, 03:53:57 am »

Why would anyone rush to liquidate this day one? Some people..

You might be right ...

... or not
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jefdiesel

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #274 on: September 27, 2014, 04:03:11 am »

Why would anyone rush to liquidate this day one? Some people..

You might be right ...

... or not

burning holes in peoples brain(wallets)s
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Stadtfeger

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #275 on: September 27, 2014, 12:19:49 pm »

i need 10,000 NxtVentures for 90Nxt each, anyone interested?
PM
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crumb-bum

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #276 on: September 27, 2014, 01:31:17 pm »

I like your style, Stadtfeger! Good luck getting your 10,000.
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ThomasVeil

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #277 on: September 27, 2014, 02:16:05 pm »

i need 10,000 NxtVentures for 90Nxt each, anyone interested?
PM

Dang, you're not fooling around :D
I think there are only two user accounts that even have just about a 10k NxtVenture stake. The 4 top accounts are James and his holdings (not fully sure about 1 of them). So you would probably have to check with him if he does such deals.
Not to crush your hopes, but the others also had ample chance to sell for higher.
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Stadtfeger

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #278 on: September 27, 2014, 04:39:44 pm »

i need 10,000 NxtVentures for 90Nxt each, anyone interested?
PM

Dang, you're not fooling around :D
I think there are only two user accounts that even have just about a 10k NxtVenture stake. The 4 top accounts are James and his holdings (not fully sure about 1 of them). So you would probably have to check with him if he does such deals.
Not to crush your hopes, but the others also had ample chance to sell for higher.

my target is 2,5 % i need 10,000 james? give it to me  ;)
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crumb-bum

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Re: NXTventure - bringing only the best issues to NXT AE
« Reply #279 on: September 27, 2014, 07:12:57 pm »

You're a monster :)

Are you investing in the jinn ipo, too?

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