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Nxt Discussion => -Old and Inactive Projects- => Nxt Projects => NXTventures => Topic started by: jl777 on May 14, 2014, 02:19:51 pm

Title: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on May 14, 2014, 02:19:51 pm
NXTcoinsco is actuall Tradebots asset.

I had an idea to simplify things a bit. With the privacyServers well on their way, I believe that there is a faster way to get revenues for NXTcoinsco asset holders.

In my mind NXTcoinsco was about automated trading and SVMs and at the time it seemed that SVMcoin was needed to create the computational infrastructure. However, with the privacyServer hubs, I believe we can bypass this stage and go directly to revenue creation. So, NXTcoinsco might be the wrong name but I will still get nodecoins out as dividends, but really the revenue potential from tradebots within InstantDEX is quite nice and I like to prioritize based on importance. If any NXTcoinsco asset holders objects to this change, please let me know ASAP.

So, the outline for Tradebot asset (aka NXTcoinsco) is that it will allow tradebot creators to make and test tradebots and then people can subscribe to their tradebot and pay a percentage of profits that they make. So this creates the ability for people who are good at making tradebots to make an income and also for people who are not able to make them to still take advantage of them.

All of this can create enormous InstantDEX volumes and I negotiated a deal with the guy that runs InstantDEX for revenue sharing to Tradebot (NXTcoinsco) asset holders. There was that unallocated 30% of the InstantDEX operating budget and now it has a home. The profit sharing of the tradebot creators is a separate thing. They would set their own price and mechanisms will be put in place for the tracking and disbursing of profits, but this is separate from the InstantDEX revenue sharing.

Hope its not too complicated. Basically NXTcoinsco (Tradebot asset) will get 30% of InstantDEX operating budget (or 15% of fees) and since there is very low overheads, most of this will become dividends

OK, so I am creating a tradebot language and it will be in the form of a JSON string. This allows for flexibility to change versions, add commands, etc. More details as I get version 0 implemented today.

James







original OP:
There are a total of 1 million NXTcoinsco assets. NXTcoinsco will be creating coins that run on top of NXT, starting with nodecoin. After that it will make SVMcoin and also create a NXTcoins development kit to enable others to make coins easily. For internally created coins, NXTcoinsco asset holders will receive 10% of the coins. The percentage for externally developed coins will vary.

For those who dont know the history of nodecoin, it was quite controversial. Some even predicted it would destroy NXT! Now that leased forging is here, there is probably less direct demand for nodecoin. however it is always nice to get more than .00023 of anything, so I expect people will happily earn their nodecoins for running NXTservices. nodecoin will reward people who help the NXT network and it wont matter how much NXT you have. About 100,000 per day will be "mined" and I hope that people will use it like dogecoin is used. Its worth something, but not a super large amount. It is also not something that is easy to get a lot of since everybody will get pretty much the same amount. If you give someone your nodecoin for that day, it will mean a lot as you cant give it to anybody else. So give the nodecoin that you earned to the person that most helped you that day.

I will put all my coin related projects into NXTcoinco, including any investments that I see as appropriate

I am not quite ready yet to divulge much details about the secret coin, which you now know the name of. SVMcoin

I can tell you that it will be different from the other crypto coins, not just because it is build on top of NXT, but because it will utilize the miners computing power to do useful work for businesses. Businesses will bid for time from the SVMcoin computing cloud and these revenues will flow through to the SVMcoin owners. The more computing power that is available, the more the SVMcoin owners will earn. So not only do the miners get SVMcoin, the SVMcoin they get will be getting dividends.

Thats the general idea of SVMcoin. The details about the "useful work for businesses" is what is really powerful about SVMcoin. More on that after multigateway is done.

For all the coins that I do, 10% of the mined coins will be distributed to the NXTcoinco asset holders.

As part of the implementation of SVMcoin, I will create a NXTcoinsco development kit that will allow others to much more easily create their own coins. Depending on whether a customization fee is paid or not the percentage of third party coins will vary.

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins + 3.25% of sianotes
Post by: jl777 on May 15, 2014, 04:14:42 am
This is not really private information as it is visible in the blockchain.

NXTcoinsco has acquired 4.25% of sianotes (from the available 15%)

In the event that sianotes appreciate dramatically, this will impact the total value of NXTcoinsco so I thought I should mention this. I think it is what is called "material information". Since we are on crypto time, instead of waiting for quarterly report, I want to update NXTcoinco asset holders within days. Also, once I post a detail, I wont keep repeating it. It always annoyed me that the annual reports were usually cut and paste quarterly reports, but maybe with small changes that you wont notice.

I have reached an agreement with the siacoin team! The have agreed to create an API customized for NXTservices. This will allow me to directly integrate siacoin features into NXT. Please follow the siacoin.com site for details

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: Tosch110 on May 16, 2014, 11:49:34 am
Hi James,

is there already some deadline that you could set for the "development kit to enable others to make coins easily"?

Do you think its a great tool for using as monetary system within one website?
This way I could add a secure and cheap system where user can deal with the NXT descendant without even being aware of using this.

I would not want it to be a speculative object. Since I would like to use it as inner monetary system of my website, could I be the only host creating addresses and keep the price stable and having a secure way to allow transaction between users?

If I understood everything correct this would be a usage of NxtCoinsco, right? What happens if I use it as monetary system of my website and every NxtCoinsco holder gets 10% of my coin which is just for my own usage?
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: jl777 on May 16, 2014, 12:07:50 pm
Hi James,

is there already some deadline that you could set for the "development kit to enable others to make coins easily"?

Do you think its a great tool for using as monetary system within one website?
This way I could add a secure and cheap system where user can deal with the NXT descendant without even being aware of using this.

I would not want it to be a speculative object. Since I would like to use it as inner monetary system of my website, could I be the only host creating addresses and keep the price stable and having a secure way to allow transaction between users?

If I understood everything correct this would be a usage of NxtCoinsco, right? What happens if I use it as monetary system of my website and every NxtCoinsco holder gets 10% of my coin which is just for my own usage?
if you just wanted to do something specific to your website, then you can just issue an asset
I expect NXTcoinsco to be used for coins that encapsulate a business model. Kind of hard to explain without revealing details of SVMcoin a bit too early

Maybe an analogy, NXTcoinsco coins will create coins that change how people view coins, eg. a way to directly generate money.

So, it is like using futuristic maglev transportation system, when you can just use normal public transport. I am setting the 10% price due to the significant infrastructure that will enable the futuristic stuff.

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: Tosch110 on May 16, 2014, 02:31:45 pm
I had that idea to prevent paying 1 NXT as fee for every transaction. (that would make the system collapse. 0.01 NXT or less payments need to be possible)

Therefore I thought either using descendant of nxt or a copy to make up an inner monetary system, where I can just use 100,000 as 1 NXT, so transaction fees within my website could be reduced and NXT transaction fees will just be payed with deposits or withdrawls.
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: jl777 on May 16, 2014, 04:14:54 pm
I had that idea to prevent paying 1 NXT as fee for every transaction. (that would make the system collapse. 0.01 NXT or less payments need to be possible)

Therefore I thought either using descendant of nxt or a copy to make up an inner monetary system, where I can just use 100,000 as 1 NXT, so transaction fees within my website could be reduced and NXT transaction fees will just be payed with deposits or withdrawls.
hopefully tx fees will reduce to 0.1 NXT to allow more usage like yours
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: allwelder on May 17, 2014, 10:38:38 am
SVMcoin,wow,another coin.
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: jl777 on May 17, 2014, 10:55:20 pm
With the expansion of staffing to a dozen people, we now have resources to make progress on many fronts in parallel.

bannercoin is now an active project with mrv777 handling website HTML

By inserting the bannercoin HTML to their webpages, webmasters will accumulate bannercoins for every minute they have a visitor on their site. If a market for bannercoin emerges, it would be possible for websites to remove their annoying banners.

I plan on integrating the nodecoin poolserver with the bannercoin poolserver

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins + 3.25% of sianotes
Post by: sherpico77 on May 19, 2014, 06:57:53 pm
This is not really private information as it is visible in the blockchain.

NXTcoinsco has acquired 4.25% of sianotes (from the available 15%)

In the event that sianotes appreciate dramatically, this will impact the total value of NXTcoinsco so I thought I should mention this. I think it is what is called "material information". Since we are on crypto time, instead of waiting for quarterly report, I want to update NXTcoinco asset holders within days. Also, once I post a detail, I wont keep repeating it. It always annoyed me that the annual reports were usually cut and paste quarterly reports, but maybe with small changes that you wont notice.

I have reached an agreement with the siacoin team! The have agreed to create an API customized for NXTservices. This will allow me to directly integrate siacoin features into NXT. Please follow the siacoin.com site for details

James

Great notice. Siacoin is very interesting.
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: sherpico77 on May 19, 2014, 07:00:29 pm
With the expansion of staffing to a dozen people, we now have resources to make progress on many fronts in parallel.

bannercoin is now an active project with mrv777 handling website HTML

By inserting the bannercoin HTML to their webpages, webmasters will accumulate bannercoins for every minute they have a visitor on their site. If a market for bannercoin emerges, it would be possible for websites to remove their annoying banners.

I plan on integrating the nodecoin poolserver with the bannercoin poolserver

James

Is there any link with more info about bannercoin?
Thanks.
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: jl777 on May 19, 2014, 07:10:12 pm
With the expansion of staffing to a dozen people, we now have resources to make progress on many fronts in parallel.

bannercoin is now an active project with mrv777 handling website HTML

By inserting the bannercoin HTML to their webpages, webmasters will accumulate bannercoins for every minute they have a visitor on their site. If a market for bannercoin emerges, it would be possible for websites to remove their annoying banners.

I plan on integrating the nodecoin poolserver with the bannercoin poolserver

James

Is there any link with more info about bannercoin?
Thanks.
not yet
it is based on Cfb's lakshimi idea,but never was much info on that
you are privy to very early dev chatter :)
i would imagine it would be a while before there is a lot of info or fancy website for bannercoin
then again there are 20+ people in TEAM now, so maybe the timeframe will be faster than I expect
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: sherpico77 on May 19, 2014, 07:21:37 pm

not yet
it is based on Cfb's lakshimi idea,but never was much info on that
you are privy to very early dev chatter :)
i would imagine it would be a while before there is a lot of info or fancy website for bannercoin
then again there are 20+ people in TEAM now, so maybe the timeframe will be faster than I expect

Ok, I remember lakshimi...
I will follow the thread, it is very interesting.
Thanks!
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: jl777 on May 19, 2014, 07:27:10 pm

not yet
it is based on Cfb's lakshimi idea,but never was much info on that
you are privy to very early dev chatter :)
i would imagine it would be a while before there is a lot of info or fancy website for bannercoin
then again there are 20+ people in TEAM now, so maybe the timeframe will be faster than I expect

Ok, I remember lakshimi...
I will follow the thread, it is very interesting.
Thanks!
Yes, at first the bannercoin will have low value, but if the website visitors would support it by putting in bids for bannercoin, then that would allow the websites they visit to eliminate the annoying animated banners

just a matter of how much people value a webpage without any annoying ads. Now that we have two active devs on it, I am hopeful it will be ready a lot sooner than originally planned

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: Tosch110 on May 25, 2014, 11:30:38 pm
mrv777 is working on bannercoin, right?

Would it be possible to have some more insights?
I am interested in this project, maybe I can help testing or other things.
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: jl777 on May 26, 2014, 12:11:46 am
mrv777 is working on bannercoin, right?

Would it be possible to have some more insights?
I am interested in this project, maybe I can help testing or other things.
yes

need some serverside code to act as the poolserver
"banners" can be replaced with HTML that is invisible on webpage and websites are credited for each visitor time unit (minute/hour/..)
poolserver collates and awards bannercoins

almost identical to nodecoin, except nodecoin is rewarding people who are good NXT nodes instead of website visitors

James

P.S. WE can always use testers. people that find bugs might even find some nice rewards
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: allwelder on May 26, 2014, 03:04:35 pm
I added a icon for TEAM on Nxtchina desktop. (http://www.nxtchina.org)
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: Tosch110 on May 26, 2014, 07:05:28 pm
I added a icon for TEAM on Nxtchina desktop. (http://www.nxtchina.org)

:D I do not understand chinese but this is an interesting website style!
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: Djinou94 on June 02, 2014, 06:17:34 pm
Can not wait for that Mr James
Is an approximate launch date?
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: jl777 on July 27, 2014, 06:09:53 pm
Now that InstantDEX is entering the home stretch, NXTcoinsco and SVMcoin details can be understood.

I want to make it so people can say: "buy 1 BTC worth of NXT at an average price of .000075, but no higher than .000076"
This sounds not so impressive, but I also want to be able to qualify such orders with: "only buy when the slope is positive", or basically any state represented by the colored lines.

This way, when InstantDEX is connecting two people, the tradebot can determine if it is able to trade at that moment.

Now knowing exactly when to trade or not is very difficult thing, but there are people that specialize in making these things. I am creating a framework for people to create very advanced tradebots using SVM tech. Other people can then subscribe to these custom created tradebots. So in a few months it will be possible for people to use highly sophisticated signals. I will make it so that a fee is paid only if it a profitable trade, this way people dont waste money on bots that dont work and the people that do make bots that work will get good income

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: farl4bit on July 27, 2014, 06:53:35 pm
Sounds amazing James.  :)
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: jl777 on July 27, 2014, 07:00:04 pm
Sounds amazing James.  :)
You've seen what I have done since March, so that's just 5 months of coding. Prior to crypto, I had been programming at this pace for 6 years on making realtime tradebots. Crazy as it seems, I wrote close to half a million lines of code, of course most of it ends up not useful for solving the problem. Anyway, I think I am one of few people who will write a million lines of code :)

James

P.S. I am not so much to be hyping up specific assets, I prefer to just release the code. For those who follow this thread, just to know that NXTcoinsco is the basked for SVMcoin, tradebot revenue sharing, etc. Due to lack of posting about what NXTcoinsco will have, it seems to not have much interest. But, this makes for some good pricing for long term hodlers. SVMcoin needs InstantDEX to be working fully, so realistically this is a fall timeframe
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: jl777 on July 27, 2014, 08:08:24 pm
I had an idea to simplify things a bit. With the privacyServers well on their way, I believe that there is a faster way to get revenues for NXTcoinsco asset holders.

In my mind NXTcoinsco was about automated trading and SVMs and at the time it seemed that SVMcoin was needed to create the computational infrastructure. However, with the privacyServer hubs, I believe we can bypass this stage and go directly to revenue creation. So, NXTcoinsco might be the wrong name but I will still get nodecoins out as dividends, but really the revenue potential from tradebots within InstantDEX is quite nice and I like to prioritize based on importance. If any NXTcoinsco asset holders objects to this change, please let me know ASAP.

So, the outline for Tradebot asset (aka NXTcoinsco) is that it will allow tradebot creators to make and test tradebots and then people can subscribe to their tradebot and pay a percentage of profits that they make. So this creates the ability for people who are good at making tradebots to make an income and also for people who are not able to make them to still take advantage of them.

All of this can create enormous InstantDEX volumes and I negotiated a deal with the guy that runs InstantDEX for revenue sharing to Tradebot (NXTcoinsco) asset holders. There was that unallocated 30% of the InstantDEX operating budget and now it has a home. The profit sharing of the tradebot creators is a separate thing. They would set their own price and mechanisms will be put in place for the tracking and disbursing of profits, but this is separate from the InstantDEX revenue sharing.

Hope its not too complicated. Basically NXTcoinsco (Tradebot asset) will get 30% of InstantDEX operating budget (or 15% of fees) and since there is very low overheads, most of this will become dividends

OK, so I am creating a tradebot language and it will be in the form of a JSON string. This allows for flexibility to change versions, add commands, etc. More details as I get version 0 implemented today.

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: Tosch110 on July 27, 2014, 08:10:39 pm
Yes. please add the InstantDex revenue to nxtcoinsco :D

Will nxtcoinsco still receive 10% of the coins that are made with the nxtcoinsco network?
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: jl777 on July 27, 2014, 08:11:57 pm
Yes. please add the InstantDex revenue to nxtcoinsco :D

Will nxtcoinsco still receive 10% of the coins that are made with the nxtcoinsco network?
yes, but now maybe no SVMcoin
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: Tosch110 on July 27, 2014, 08:17:15 pm
Yes. please add the InstantDex revenue to nxtcoinsco :D

Will nxtcoinsco still receive 10% of the coins that are made with the nxtcoinsco network?
yes, but now maybe no SVMcoin

Do I understand it correct if I say you planned to create a SVMcoin for InstantDEX. No you realize you do not need it. Therefore SVMcoin will not be created and logically it cannot be distributed.

Or is SVMcoin already created but used for InstantDex therefore sharing revenue for InstantDex is the new way instead of distributing SVMcoin?
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: jl777 on July 27, 2014, 08:22:56 pm
Yes. please add the InstantDex revenue to nxtcoinsco :D

Will nxtcoinsco still receive 10% of the coins that are made with the nxtcoinsco network?
yes, but now maybe no SVMcoin

Do I understand it correct if I say you planned to create a SVMcoin for InstantDEX. No you realize you do not need it. Therefore SVMcoin will not be created and logically it cannot be distributed.

Or is SVMcoin already created but used for InstantDex therefore sharing revenue for InstantDex is the new way instead of distributing SVMcoin?
I planned to create SVMcoin for NXTcoinsco and it was to be a client of InstantDEX. The point for SVMcoin was to have mining CPU power to calculate SVMs, but with privacyServers, that mining power is already forming, so this accelerates the timeframe for SVM related revenues.

The SVMs will be used to create enhanced tradebots and this will create revenues from profit sharing with people that subscribe to the enhanced tradebot.
Before it would have been another coin which added another level of indirection. Now, much more direct. Tradebots asset makes tradebots and tools to make enhanced tradebots. People create said bots and make money by profit sharing with their customers and of course Tradebots asset gets a piece of this profit sharing too.

InstantDEX benefits by having a bunch of bots making a bunch of trades.
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: Tosch110 on July 27, 2014, 08:25:02 pm
Sounds awesome. Need more nxtcoinsco :D
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 27, 2014, 08:31:26 pm
Sounds awesome. Need more nxtcoinsco :D
No hurry, it will take time to create the tradebot creation stuff and until then it will only be the InstantDEX revenue sharing

If you have any requests for the type of things you want your tradebot to be able to do, please let me know.
I am doing this incrementally, so at first it will just have a target price and a few indicators to use as confirmation/prevention

This solves the InstantDEX problem of not having the trades automatically matched. Each one is negotiated peer to peer and it is just not practical for users to have to respond manually, so this accelerated the need for tradebots by a few months

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 27, 2014, 11:12:02 pm
OK, I couldnt resist, I coded the dynamic library loading and even though I dont know how to make them properly if there is a dynamic library with the entry points:

"langname", "compiler", "runtime"

I will add it to the list of available languages. The MGW.conf (too lazy to rename the file for all the different possibilities) file will then look for a field called "tradebot_languages" and if it is an array of filenames, each will attempt to be loaded.

So, the code is there, if anybody can make a dynamic library with these entry points, I could test it

langname is a char * to the name of the language
int32_t (*compiler_func)(void **compiledptr,char *retjsonstr,cJSON *codejson);
int32_t (*runtime_func)(void *compiled,struct tradebot_state *state);

the compiler function does whatever it needs to with codejson and allocates memory for the compiled data and puts that in *compiledptr. status is putinto retjsonstr. Note that the codejson can be encrypted blob of hexbytes, or even C code, though not sure how to deal with embedded quotes. sometimes the simplest things make for most problems

The runtime function will be called with the compiledptr that was saved earlier along with the current tradebot state. The runtime function will be called until it returns nonzero status, negative indicating error, positive indication completion

Each language can have a memory limited number of tradebots all active. I decided to let each tradebot determine if it needs any data during runtime, as otherwise I need a way to generically specify all the possible data needs ahead of time.

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: sparta_cuss on July 27, 2014, 11:36:45 pm
Now that InstantDEX is entering the home stretch, NXTcoinsco and SVMcoin details can be understood.

I want to make it so people can say: "buy 1 BTC worth of NXT at an average price of .000075, but no higher than .000076"
This sounds not so impressive, but I also want to be able to qualify such orders with: "only buy when the slope is positive", or basically any state represented by the colored lines.

This way, when InstantDEX is connecting two people, the tradebot can determine if it is able to trade at that moment.

Now knowing exactly when to trade or not is very difficult thing, but there are people that specialize in making these things. I am creating a framework for people to create very advanced tradebots using SVM tech. Other people can then subscribe to these custom created tradebots. So in a few months it will be possible for people to use highly sophisticated signals. I will make it so that a fee is paid only if it a profitable trade, this way people dont waste money on bots that dont work and the people that do make bots that work will get good income

James

I like where this project is going. Can you explain how this will work. Will you do a real-time assessment of all bot activity? Or is there an algorithm in the SVM - which, I imagine, is the template for all bots - that will assess the profitability of each trade?
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco - nodecoin, SVMcoin and more coins
Post by: jl777 on July 28, 2014, 12:32:16 am
Now that InstantDEX is entering the home stretch, NXTcoinsco and SVMcoin details can be understood.

I want to make it so people can say: "buy 1 BTC worth of NXT at an average price of .000075, but no higher than .000076"
This sounds not so impressive, but I also want to be able to qualify such orders with: "only buy when the slope is positive", or basically any state represented by the colored lines.

This way, when InstantDEX is connecting two people, the tradebot can determine if it is able to trade at that moment.

Now knowing exactly when to trade or not is very difficult thing, but there are people that specialize in making these things. I am creating a framework for people to create very advanced tradebots using SVM tech. Other people can then subscribe to these custom created tradebots. So in a few months it will be possible for people to use highly sophisticated signals. I will make it so that a fee is paid only if it a profitable trade, this way people dont waste money on bots that dont work and the people that do make bots that work will get good income

James

I like where this project is going. Can you explain how this will work. Will you do a real-time assessment of all bot activity? Or is there an algorithm in the SVM - which, I imagine, is the template for all bots - that will assess the profitability of each trade?
It wont need to be realitime, no need to create such load on network.
The bots that are involved in trades would log this and then on regular interval the profitability of trades will be made. Now, it is easiest if a trade is open and closed, but if it is still open, some issues on calculating profits.
Clearly, we cant be commingling more than one tradebot for a profit sharing account, so it will have to be like PAMM accts, where the bot makes buy/sell decisions and subscriber's accounts do the same. Then subject to drawdown safety margin, reasonable time intervals, etc. a profit calculation can be made

This is a totally independent accounting function. Maybe I can have shortNXT do it :)
I am not so worried about this part, it is just to count the actual money made with actual trades made

I am writing the tradebot language today and so far I have it so that you can have your own language and within each language an arbitrary number of tradebots, each with a botname, botid and signals (each signal with its name and size) and other bots can use outputs of a tradebot as an input. This allows for modular construction of fancy signals and control flow bots.

If you search "SVM predictors" in google, you will see many references to mostly math heavy info. They basically take as input massive (I mean really a lot) amounts of data and from this they create a predictor that can be calculated very quickly (just a dotproduct) once you have all the features. This is pretty tricky, so I will have to create a template system for people to experiment with to generate a blackbox SVM predictor with hopefully good properties.

It will be quite possible to make tradebots without any SVM, but in my experience without something with heavy duty dataset embodied in something like an SVM, you usually curvefit your solution to test data and it doesnt do so well with realtime datafeed

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 28, 2014, 02:30:32 am
Starting to get a bit complicated. Had to think through the order of bots being called.
So during compile time of the tradebots, if it needs other bot's outputs as an input, then it needs to wait to process tradebot events until after the one it depends on is done. Otherwise, best case is wasted CPU reprocessing, worst case is totally wrong result or at least delayed result.

So, had to implement a dynamic dependency tracking, a bit nervous my algo isnt quite right, so I put in a brute force debug check to make sure it did call each bot once and only once per event.

It is also very handy to have a regular context, eg. making a summary for the just finished minute, so I also put in a one minute timer that goes off after all other processing is done.

With all this linking of outputs to inputs becoming possible, a lot of the processing will be automatically done just by the tradebot topology. Pretty cool! each bot can now be a single purpose bot that does just one thing. This allows for rapid coding and linear debugging as it wont end up with combinatorial explosion of test cases. Of course the tradebot topology becomes crazy complicated and could inadvertently spawn skynet, but dont tell anyone :)

Still have to debug the actual dependency thing, but maybe its time for lunch first.

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 28, 2014, 03:16:52 am
OK, figured out how to specify inputs, basically exchange, base, rel, lang, botname, botid, signal name!

So we have 7 dimensional set of input signals to choose from and many of these are very extensible.
Now if I make a simple stack based forth control flow, I think this is Turing complete!
Since it runs on all client nodes, does that mean it is decentralized? Actually, no, each node runs their own set of tradebots

Still, now I need to figure out what sorts of things need to be supported on the input signals
I think with all the flexibility built into the signals, maybe just a tristate buy/sell/do nothing with a volume
Is that all I need?

There is passive and active bots, so I need to support that. Some bots wait until somebody else makes an offer, but without any bots that proactively make offers, it will just be deadlock city!

So, to implement a NXT -> BTC bridge, I think I just need to make the tradebot proactively find sellers of BTC at the right price, aha! I also need some fancy things like, withdraw from MGW to a BTC address. So I think a pretty simple tradebot would have the code to do the conversion and then follow with a send of BTC (by using MGW, its just withdraw command for all supported coins!)

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: coinomat on July 28, 2014, 05:46:56 am
this is very cool, we would need a market-making bot for NXT, to provide better liquidity and make the spread smaller. Really interested, waiting for the trade bot language.
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 28, 2014, 05:58:54 am
this is very cool, we would need a market-making bot for NXT, to provide better liquidity and make the spread smaller. Really interested, waiting for the trade bot language.
I have some relatively big announcement in this regard, coming soon on the main price speculation thread

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 28, 2014, 06:31:04 am
this is very cool, we would need a market-making bot for NXT, to provide better liquidity and make the spread smaller. Really interested, waiting for the trade bot language.
https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/price-speculation/msg71681/#msg71681

I was able to a Turing complete language done today!
In addition to all the data access, we now have picoc to write the scripts with and they can combine with external API, plus all my signal processing code and soon SVM creations

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: Tosch110 on July 28, 2014, 06:52:08 am
Sounds awesome. Need more nxtcoinsco :D
No hurry, it will take time to create the tradebot creation stuff and until then it will only be the InstantDEX revenue sharing

If you have any requests for the type of things you want your tradebot to be able to do, please let me know.
I am doing this incrementally, so at first it will just have a target price and a few indicators to use as confirmation/prevention

This solves the InstantDEX problem of not having the trades automatically matched. Each one is negotiated peer to peer and it is just not practical for users to have to respond manually, so this accelerated the need for tradebots by a few months

James

This have been times ... and now look at you. Solving all these problems and proposing a groundbreaking solution. And this within 1 day.
Great job ;D
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 28, 2014, 06:57:15 am
Sounds awesome. Need more nxtcoinsco :D
No hurry, it will take time to create the tradebot creation stuff and until then it will only be the InstantDEX revenue sharing

If you have any requests for the type of things you want your tradebot to be able to do, please let me know.
I am doing this incrementally, so at first it will just have a target price and a few indicators to use as confirmation/prevention

This solves the InstantDEX problem of not having the trades automatically matched. Each one is negotiated peer to peer and it is just not practical for users to have to respond manually, so this accelerated the need for tradebots by a few months

James

This have been times ... and now look at you. Solving all these problems and proposing a groundbreaking solution. And this within 1 day.
Great job ;D
Thanks. I still have to finish up the loose ends and connect the key data sources into the picoc, but it all seems not a problem. picoc is pretty nicely written, but I guess it helps that I wrote a C compiler before. picoc is not full C, but enough so that I will feel at home and not slow down to learn a new language :)

So, by next weekend I hope to have fully functional picoc scripts doing real useful stuff, but maybe I will take a couple days off next weekend.

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: coinomat on July 28, 2014, 07:02:56 am
I'll definitely start with market making bot now, did not expect that could happen so fast
this is very cool, we would need a market-making bot for NXT, to provide better liquidity and make the spread smaller. Really interested, waiting for the trade bot language.
https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/price-speculation/msg71681/#msg71681

I was able to a Turing complete language done today!
In addition to all the data access, we now have picoc to write the scripts with and they can combine with external API, plus all my signal processing code and soon SVM creations

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 28, 2014, 07:04:31 am
I'll definitely start with market making bot now, did not expect that could happen so fast
this is very cool, we would need a market-making bot for NXT, to provide better liquidity and make the spread smaller. Really interested, waiting for the trade bot language.
https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/price-speculation/msg71681/#msg71681

I was able to a Turing complete language done today!
In addition to all the data access, we now have picoc to write the scripts with and they can combine with external API, plus all my signal processing code and soon SVM creations

James
Neither did I!
Today was a very productive day :)
Give me a week to get all the kinks out and a few real world test cases working

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: sparta_cuss on July 28, 2014, 09:28:24 am
I'm not sure any of this work counts, since you did not follow the Nxt pre-pre-announcement protocol. ;)
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: id10tothe9 on July 28, 2014, 05:29:27 pm
James, with all this amazing productivity I wanted to ask you: HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE YOU? ;D
This is really inspiring me hehe, and probably you don't need a reminder, but don't forget to take care of your health ;)
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: id10tothe9 on July 28, 2014, 06:38:26 pm
one question, is NXTcoinsco still going to be building other coins on top of NXT and the toolkit, or is it now just for the tradebots project (what I kinda understood from the edited OP)?
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 28, 2014, 06:44:08 pm
one question, is NXTcoinsco still going to be building other coins on top of NXT and the toolkit, or is it now just for the tradebots project (what I kinda understood from the edited OP)?
I will still do nodecoin and bannercoin as I have said that I would. Some day I will probably just make a NXTcoinsco development kit, but kind of waiting for Monetary System for that
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 28, 2014, 06:45:29 pm
I'm not sure any of this work counts, since you did not follow the Nxt pre-pre-announcement protocol. ;)
I didnt have time :)
It went from idea -> found picoc -> cram it into NXTservices -> debug three bugs -> make main return double -> verify input and output -> Hey that went really fast, like 4 hours. I amazed even myself yesterday :)
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 28, 2014, 06:47:00 pm
James, with all this amazing productivity I wanted to ask you: HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE YOU? ;D
This is really inspiring me hehe, and probably you don't need a reminder, but don't forget to take care of your health ;)
I talk to myself a lot, so I guess at least two people :)
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 28, 2014, 11:54:53 pm
Just finished up defining the input/output process for the tradebots. Unfortunately it is getting a bit complicated for all the aspiring language creators, but the good news is the picoTradebotLanguage, PTL should be relatively easy to write, if you know C

Here are the data types for PTL:

structN - N bytes
bit[n] - N bits
['u']char[V] - 8 bits
['u']short[V] - 16 bits
['u']int[V] - 32 bits
['u']long[V] - 64 bits
['u']float[V] - 32 bits
['u']double[V] - 64 bits

All except struct ant bit types support unsigned. Yes, even floating point! On output, an unsigned float/double type automatically gets fabs() applied to it. The "struct" type is just an arbitrary number of bytes that will be allocated for output. bit[n] means "bit" or "bit1", or "bit2", etc. bit2 would be two bits, bit13 would be thirteen bits. For output having bitfields doesnt make much sense, but when it is used as inputs, then it starts making much more sense, as 32 "bit" inputs would fit into a single uint32_t

Now all the other scalar types have a [V], so you can do int4, int13, double16, etc. double16 is a vector of 16 doubles
Unfortunately this syntax has different meanings for the suffix, eg. N bytes or n bits or V elements, but hopefully it wont cause too much confusion.

A tradebot would register an output type with a name and it is responsible for keeping this updated.
So for input, you can specify the output of any other tradebot's outputs and due to the nature of the data stream it will be useful to modify the inputs, eg. SMA, EMA, filters, etc. So I have a "conditioner" field that will allow you to specify how an input field is conditioned and made available to your tradebot. This will be easily extensible to add a large variety of different signal processing algos.

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: allwelder on July 29, 2014, 06:02:04 am
means will issue a new asset named Tradebots?
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 29, 2014, 07:05:26 am
means will issue a new asset named Tradebots?
NXTcoinsco is Tradebots
No way to rename and no time to deal with issuing new asset and swapping
So, if you want Tradebots asset, its just the same as NXTcoinsco 17571711292785902558
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 29, 2014, 08:10:41 am
Well, that took longer than I expected, but had to essentially recreate most of MT4!

The reason is that after spending all that time making sure bots can use other bot's outputs as inputs and making arbitrary topology, the front line bots need input from, well, from other exchanges and InstantDEX orderbook. So, after not going crazy from all the possible price inversions due to the ability of InstantDEX to show any orderbook base/rel or rel/base. Meaning NXT/BTC or BTC/NXT. So at the lowest level, an orderbook needs to pick assetA and assetB and I just require assetA < assetB in its ID. For most contracts there is only one order, but toss in the NXT AE and it is NXT based, so it has BTC/NXT, but all the exchanges have NXT/BTC.

Add to this confusion, the user (tradebot) can request the orderbook in either orientation.

Anyway, I think I got it right, but too late to debug this sort of thing today, so it will have to be tomorow, when I should also be able to add the "action" function calls, eg. makeoffer, issue trades, etc.

All the tradebots are called whenever the top of the orderbook of any exchange changes. Also, once per minute timer.

The first thing a tradebot needs to do is call the initialization function:
int init_PTL(int *eventp,int *changedp,char *exchange,char *base,char *rel);

if exchange is not specified, all exchanges will be accepted, including a special one called "ALL", which is all exchanges including InstantDEX combined.
base is the first currency and rel is the second, so BTC/BTCD would be base = "BTCD" and rel = "BTC"

if init_PTL returns 0, it means it was not a match. If non-zero it was and all the globals are set.
event will currently be:
#define TRADEBOT_PRICECHANGE 1
#define TRADEBOT_NEWMINUTE 2
changed would be 1 if there was a pricechange, this is probably almost always going to be set, but I think there are some timer cases that could have no changes, needs some debugging

Here are the available global data:
Bid(n) nth bid in the orderbook
Bidvol(n) nth bid volume in the orderbook
Bidid(n) id of the nth buyer
Ask(n) nth ask in the orderbook
Ask(n) nth ask volume in the orderbook
Askid(n) id of the nth seller

I also calculate the bars for various timeframes: M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, M10, M15, M30 and H1
Maxbars tells the most bars possible, but it is quite possible that even though the bar is there it is empty especially if you dont have much data. Just check the BARI_FIRSTBID or BARI_FIRSTASK field, if it is zero, then no data for that bar

There are 16 fields in each bar, to access one, just go:
M1(pasti,bari) or M2(pasti,bari) or ... H1(pasti,bari)

pasti of 0 is the latest bar, pasti 1 is one bar in the past, etc. Now I recalculate all the bars to the second, so the bars are relative to the current second. Jdatetime has the time index in GMT from 1/1/2000

bari is the index into the 16 element bar and has the following fields:
#define BARI_FIRSTBID 0
#define BARI_FIRSTASK 1
#define BARI_LOWBID 2
#define BARI_HIGHASK 3
#define BARI_HIGHBID 4
#define BARI_LOWASK 5
#define BARI_LASTBID 6
#define BARI_LASTASK 7

#define BARI_ARBBID 8
#define BARI_ARBASK 9
#define BARI_MINBID 10
#define BARI_MAXASK 11
#define BARI_VIRTBID 10
#define BARI_VIRTASK 11
#define BARI_AVEBID 12
#define BARI_AVEASK 13
#define BARI_MEDIAN 14
#define BARI_AVEPRICE 15

Currently, the ARB and VIRT fields are not calculated.

So as you can see, PTL now is getting close to MT4 functionality, actually in many ways it has a lot more. Now I just need to debug all the new code and add the action functions.

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: coinomat on July 29, 2014, 02:19:29 pm
Just a quick question
what the advantages does it have relative to trading through NXT API?
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 29, 2014, 06:49:13 pm
Just a quick question
what the advantages does it have relative to trading through NXT API?
You get access to the realtime InstantDEX orderbook and presumably the best execution prices. Also, to place bid/ask quote on NXT AE it costs 1 NXT, another 1 NXT to cancel. With InstantDEX no cost unless an order is filled. Also, InstantDEX is dynamically making orderbooks for all asset <-> asset trades, including where "asset" is NXT. NXT AE only supports trades based in NXT.

Now if you dont already have the data feeds setup and the signal processing algos, then those are significant advantages, not to mention the ability to be able to run a tradebot without having to deal with all the various blockchains directly. I intent to add function calls that allow some pretty cool functionality, basically the ability to programmatically invoke NXTservices functions within a tradebot.

Remember, I only started this tradebot language this past weekend and it is just Tuesday :)

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: coinomat on July 29, 2014, 07:03:45 pm
Cool stuff :)
Is it possible to set limit orders through InstantDEX, or all the orders are market orders?
Just a quick question
what the advantages does it have relative to trading through NXT API?
You get access to the realtime InstantDEX orderbook and presumably the best execution prices. Also, to place bid/ask quote on NXT AE it costs 1 NXT, another 1 NXT to cancel. With InstantDEX no cost unless an order is filled. Also, InstantDEX is dynamically making orderbooks for all asset <-> asset trades, including where "asset" is NXT. NXT AE only supports trades based in NXT.

Now if you dont already have the data feeds setup and the signal processing algos, then those are significant advantages, not to mention the ability to be able to run a tradebot without having to deal with all the various blockchains directly. I intent to add function calls that allow some pretty cool functionality, basically the ability to programmatically invoke NXTservices functions within a tradebot.

Remember, I only started this tradebot language this past weekend and it is just Tuesday :)

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 29, 2014, 07:25:23 pm
Cool stuff :)
Is it possible to set limit orders through InstantDEX, or all the orders are market orders?
Just a quick question
what the advantages does it have relative to trading through NXT API?
You get access to the realtime InstantDEX orderbook and presumably the best execution prices. Also, to place bid/ask quote on NXT AE it costs 1 NXT, another 1 NXT to cancel. With InstantDEX no cost unless an order is filled. Also, InstantDEX is dynamically making orderbooks for all asset <-> asset trades, including where "asset" is NXT. NXT AE only supports trades based in NXT.

Now if you dont already have the data feeds setup and the signal processing algos, then those are significant advantages, not to mention the ability to be able to run a tradebot without having to deal with all the various blockchains directly. I intent to add function calls that allow some pretty cool functionality, basically the ability to programmatically invoke NXTservices functions within a tradebot.

Remember, I only started this tradebot language this past weekend and it is just Tuesday :)

James
I think you are misunderstanding a bit...
InstantDEX will be maintaining arbitrary orderbooks in realtime, but it will not be automatically matching orders. This is why I ended up duplicating MT4 functions this weekend!

I expect that each person will look at the orderbook they are interested in and then send a offer to the one with the best price. Now, the one that receives it must decide to accept it or not. Clearly in a high volume environment that InstantDEX will become, it is not practical to do this manually. So at first I was thinking of having just a simple, "Buy/Sell X amount at ave price of Y, but not worse than Z"

Then I ran into the issue of needing some basic scripting. It could be just hardcoded keywords, maybe some hard to use bitcoin forth type of thing, but I am simple C programmer so I look for C interpreter. I found picoc and it was fantastic. 4 hours is all it took to get proof of concept execution of "hello world" script. So, once I have C interpreter in my source base, now I can add any interpreter library function that directly runs any of my NXTservices code.

What this means is that all makeoffers will be processed by the tradebot!

So you can have any Turing complete complexity level script using C combined with all the data and library functions to decide to accept or reject the offer.
Since there is no actual binding bid/ask (other than NXT AE quotes), there really is no "market order"
I will of course make standard scripts for simple things like limit orders, stop loss, etc.
But the power of all this is that you can check the orderbook status on bter and cryptsy and NXT AE all in realtime the moment a tradeoffer is there and dynamically decide to accept or reject. Now your accept/reject rate will be recorded and published so if you have many quotes but low acceptance rate, then other traders will simply not bother to makeoffers and I think the tradebots will be able to get statistics on historical acceptance rates.

Basically my tradebots will be unlike anything ever seen in the automated trading universe (as far as I know). Crypto I am newbie 6 months ago. This trading stuff I am old pro and actually quite good at it :)

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: coinomat on July 29, 2014, 07:34:24 pm
Yes maybe I don't quite get it still, now I understand better but not fully
So you can only be a liquidity taker through InstantDEX, by picking orders from order book. You cannot provide liquidity, that is add your order to orderbook. is it right?
 :-[
Cool stuff :)
Is it possible to set limit orders through InstantDEX, or all the orders are market orders?
Just a quick question
what the advantages does it have relative to trading through NXT API?
You get access to the realtime InstantDEX orderbook and presumably the best execution prices. Also, to place bid/ask quote on NXT AE it costs 1 NXT, another 1 NXT to cancel. With InstantDEX no cost unless an order is filled. Also, InstantDEX is dynamically making orderbooks for all asset <-> asset trades, including where "asset" is NXT. NXT AE only supports trades based in NXT.

Now if you dont already have the data feeds setup and the signal processing algos, then those are significant advantages, not to mention the ability to be able to run a tradebot without having to deal with all the various blockchains directly. I intent to add function calls that allow some pretty cool functionality, basically the ability to programmatically invoke NXTservices functions within a tradebot.

Remember, I only started this tradebot language this past weekend and it is just Tuesday :)

James
I think you are misunderstanding a bit...
InstantDEX will be maintaining arbitrary orderbooks in realtime, but it will not be automatically matching orders. This is why I ended up duplicating MT4 functions this weekend!

I expect that each person will look at the orderbook they are interested in and then send a offer to the one with the best price. Now, the one that receives it must decide to accept it or not. Clearly in a high volume environment that InstantDEX will become, it is not practical to do this manually. So at first I was thinking of having just a simple, "Buy/Sell X amount at ave price of Y, but not worse than Z"

Then I ran into the issue of needing some basic scripting. It could be just hardcoded keywords, maybe some hard to use bitcoin forth type of thing, but I am simple C programmer so I look for C interpreter. I found picoc and it was fantastic. 4 hours is all it took to get proof of concept execution of "hello world" script. So, once I have C interpreter in my source base, now I can add any interpreter library function that directly runs any of my NXTservices code.

What this means is that all makeoffers will be processed by the tradebot!

So you can have any Turing complete complexity level script using C combined with all the data and library functions to decide to accept or reject the offer.
Since there is no actual binding bid/ask (other than NXT AE quotes), there really is no "market order"
I will of course make standard scripts for simple things like limit orders, stop loss, etc.
But the power of all this is that you can check the orderbook status on bter and cryptsy and NXT AE all in realtime the moment a tradeoffer is there and dynamically decide to accept or reject. Now your accept/reject rate will be recorded and published so if you have many quotes but low acceptance rate, then other traders will simply not bother to makeoffers and I think the tradebots will be able to get statistics on historical acceptance rates.

Basically my tradebots will be unlike anything ever seen in the automated trading universe (as far as I know). Crypto I am newbie 6 months ago. This trading stuff I am old pro and actually quite good at it :)

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 29, 2014, 07:37:42 pm
Yes maybe I don't quite get it still, now I understand better but not fully
So you can only be a liquidity taker through InstantDEX, by picking orders from order book. You cannot provide liquidity, that is add your order to orderbook. is it right?
 :-[
Cool stuff :)
Is it possible to set limit orders through InstantDEX, or all the orders are market orders?
Just a quick question
what the advantages does it have relative to trading through NXT API?
You get access to the realtime InstantDEX orderbook and presumably the best execution prices. Also, to place bid/ask quote on NXT AE it costs 1 NXT, another 1 NXT to cancel. With InstantDEX no cost unless an order is filled. Also, InstantDEX is dynamically making orderbooks for all asset <-> asset trades, including where "asset" is NXT. NXT AE only supports trades based in NXT.

Now if you dont already have the data feeds setup and the signal processing algos, then those are significant advantages, not to mention the ability to be able to run a tradebot without having to deal with all the various blockchains directly. I intent to add function calls that allow some pretty cool functionality, basically the ability to programmatically invoke NXTservices functions within a tradebot.

Remember, I only started this tradebot language this past weekend and it is just Tuesday :)

James
I think you are misunderstanding a bit...
InstantDEX will be maintaining arbitrary orderbooks in realtime, but it will not be automatically matching orders. This is why I ended up duplicating MT4 functions this weekend!

I expect that each person will look at the orderbook they are interested in and then send a offer to the one with the best price. Now, the one that receives it must decide to accept it or not. Clearly in a high volume environment that InstantDEX will become, it is not practical to do this manually. So at first I was thinking of having just a simple, "Buy/Sell X amount at ave price of Y, but not worse than Z"

Then I ran into the issue of needing some basic scripting. It could be just hardcoded keywords, maybe some hard to use bitcoin forth type of thing, but I am simple C programmer so I look for C interpreter. I found picoc and it was fantastic. 4 hours is all it took to get proof of concept execution of "hello world" script. So, once I have C interpreter in my source base, now I can add any interpreter library function that directly runs any of my NXTservices code.

What this means is that all makeoffers will be processed by the tradebot!

So you can have any Turing complete complexity level script using C combined with all the data and library functions to decide to accept or reject the offer.
Since there is no actual binding bid/ask (other than NXT AE quotes), there really is no "market order"
I will of course make standard scripts for simple things like limit orders, stop loss, etc.
But the power of all this is that you can check the orderbook status on bter and cryptsy and NXT AE all in realtime the moment a tradeoffer is there and dynamically decide to accept or reject. Now your accept/reject rate will be recorded and published so if you have many quotes but low acceptance rate, then other traders will simply not bother to makeoffers and I think the tradebots will be able to get statistics on historical acceptance rates.

Basically my tradebots will be unlike anything ever seen in the automated trading universe (as far as I know). Crypto I am newbie 6 months ago. This trading stuff I am old pro and actually quite good at it :)

James
You can do both sides.
just place both bid and asks on the orderbook and always accept any offer
then you are making liquidity available
it is all programmable in C
no learning curve for anybody that knows C and premade tradebots for the simpler things
It is Turing complete! That means anything can be implemented :)
In C!
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: coinomat on July 29, 2014, 07:48:21 pm
seems to be perfect, especially when you don't have to pay the trading fee if you use DEX.
waiting for the launch :)

Yes maybe I don't quite get it still, now I understand better but not fully
So you can only be a liquidity taker through InstantDEX, by picking orders from order book. You cannot provide liquidity, that is add your order to orderbook. is it right?
 :-[
Cool stuff :)
Is it possible to set limit orders through InstantDEX, or all the orders are market orders?
Just a quick question
what the advantages does it have relative to trading through NXT API?
You get access to the realtime InstantDEX orderbook and presumably the best execution prices. Also, to place bid/ask quote on NXT AE it costs 1 NXT, another 1 NXT to cancel. With InstantDEX no cost unless an order is filled. Also, InstantDEX is dynamically making orderbooks for all asset <-> asset trades, including where "asset" is NXT. NXT AE only supports trades based in NXT.

Now if you dont already have the data feeds setup and the signal processing algos, then those are significant advantages, not to mention the ability to be able to run a tradebot without having to deal with all the various blockchains directly. I intent to add function calls that allow some pretty cool functionality, basically the ability to programmatically invoke NXTservices functions within a tradebot.

Remember, I only started this tradebot language this past weekend and it is just Tuesday :)

James
I think you are misunderstanding a bit...
InstantDEX will be maintaining arbitrary orderbooks in realtime, but it will not be automatically matching orders. This is why I ended up duplicating MT4 functions this weekend!

I expect that each person will look at the orderbook they are interested in and then send a offer to the one with the best price. Now, the one that receives it must decide to accept it or not. Clearly in a high volume environment that InstantDEX will become, it is not practical to do this manually. So at first I was thinking of having just a simple, "Buy/Sell X amount at ave price of Y, but not worse than Z"

Then I ran into the issue of needing some basic scripting. It could be just hardcoded keywords, maybe some hard to use bitcoin forth type of thing, but I am simple C programmer so I look for C interpreter. I found picoc and it was fantastic. 4 hours is all it took to get proof of concept execution of "hello world" script. So, once I have C interpreter in my source base, now I can add any interpreter library function that directly runs any of my NXTservices code.

What this means is that all makeoffers will be processed by the tradebot!

So you can have any Turing complete complexity level script using C combined with all the data and library functions to decide to accept or reject the offer.
Since there is no actual binding bid/ask (other than NXT AE quotes), there really is no "market order"
I will of course make standard scripts for simple things like limit orders, stop loss, etc.
But the power of all this is that you can check the orderbook status on bter and cryptsy and NXT AE all in realtime the moment a tradeoffer is there and dynamically decide to accept or reject. Now your accept/reject rate will be recorded and published so if you have many quotes but low acceptance rate, then other traders will simply not bother to makeoffers and I think the tradebots will be able to get statistics on historical acceptance rates.

Basically my tradebots will be unlike anything ever seen in the automated trading universe (as far as I know). Crypto I am newbie 6 months ago. This trading stuff I am old pro and actually quite good at it :)

James
You can do both sides.
just place both bid and asks on the orderbook and always accept any offer
then you are making liquidity available
it is all programmable in C
no learning curve for anybody that knows C and premade tradebots for the simpler things
It is Turing complete! That means anything can be implemented :)
In C!
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 29, 2014, 08:00:07 pm
seems to be perfect, especially when you don't have to pay the trading fee if you use DEX.
waiting for the launch :)

Yes maybe I don't quite get it still, now I understand better but not fully
So you can only be a liquidity taker through InstantDEX, by picking orders from order book. You cannot provide liquidity, that is add your order to orderbook. is it right?
 :-[
Cool stuff :)
Is it possible to set limit orders through InstantDEX, or all the orders are market orders?
Just a quick question
what the advantages does it have relative to trading through NXT API?
You get access to the realtime InstantDEX orderbook and presumably the best execution prices. Also, to place bid/ask quote on NXT AE it costs 1 NXT, another 1 NXT to cancel. With InstantDEX no cost unless an order is filled. Also, InstantDEX is dynamically making orderbooks for all asset <-> asset trades, including where "asset" is NXT. NXT AE only supports trades based in NXT.

Now if you dont already have the data feeds setup and the signal processing algos, then those are significant advantages, not to mention the ability to be able to run a tradebot without having to deal with all the various blockchains directly. I intent to add function calls that allow some pretty cool functionality, basically the ability to programmatically invoke NXTservices functions within a tradebot.

Remember, I only started this tradebot language this past weekend and it is just Tuesday :)

James
I think you are misunderstanding a bit...
InstantDEX will be maintaining arbitrary orderbooks in realtime, but it will not be automatically matching orders. This is why I ended up duplicating MT4 functions this weekend!

I expect that each person will look at the orderbook they are interested in and then send a offer to the one with the best price. Now, the one that receives it must decide to accept it or not. Clearly in a high volume environment that InstantDEX will become, it is not practical to do this manually. So at first I was thinking of having just a simple, "Buy/Sell X amount at ave price of Y, but not worse than Z"

Then I ran into the issue of needing some basic scripting. It could be just hardcoded keywords, maybe some hard to use bitcoin forth type of thing, but I am simple C programmer so I look for C interpreter. I found picoc and it was fantastic. 4 hours is all it took to get proof of concept execution of "hello world" script. So, once I have C interpreter in my source base, now I can add any interpreter library function that directly runs any of my NXTservices code.

What this means is that all makeoffers will be processed by the tradebot!

So you can have any Turing complete complexity level script using C combined with all the data and library functions to decide to accept or reject the offer.
Since there is no actual binding bid/ask (other than NXT AE quotes), there really is no "market order"
I will of course make standard scripts for simple things like limit orders, stop loss, etc.
But the power of all this is that you can check the orderbook status on bter and cryptsy and NXT AE all in realtime the moment a tradeoffer is there and dynamically decide to accept or reject. Now your accept/reject rate will be recorded and published so if you have many quotes but low acceptance rate, then other traders will simply not bother to makeoffers and I think the tradebots will be able to get statistics on historical acceptance rates.

Basically my tradebots will be unlike anything ever seen in the automated trading universe (as far as I know). Crypto I am newbie 6 months ago. This trading stuff I am old pro and actually quite good at it :)

James
You can do both sides.
just place both bid and asks on the orderbook and always accept any offer
then you are making liquidity available
it is all programmable in C
no learning curve for anybody that knows C and premade tradebots for the simpler things
It is Turing complete! That means anything can be implemented :)
In C!
There is an InstantDEX fee of 1/1024 of transactions completed to each side of trade
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 30, 2014, 01:14:55 am
After literally hundreds of test/debug revisions, the first PTL tradebot that has access to realtime exchange data:

Here is the tradebot JSON:
{'lang':'ptl','botname':'testbot3','outputs':[{'name':'test','type':'double'}],'picoc':

'double main(int argc,char **argv)
{
    int ev,ch;
    if ( init_PTL(&ev,&ch,0,''BTCD'',''BTC'') == 0 )
        return(0.);
    printf(''FROM TRADEBOT %s %s %s: highbid vol %.6f %.8f || %.8f vol %.6f lowask\n'',Exchange,Base,Rel,Bidvol(0),Bid(0), Ask(0),Askvol(0));

    return(Bid(0));
}'

After I submit it, it returns the result of the "compilation":
json_handler returns.({"metalevel":0,"numinputs":0,"numoutputs":1,"IOsize":"8","codelen":"277"})

Now it is active in the system and it gets called for each price change. It is looking for BTCD/BTC trades and it will simply print the top of the orderbook. The lines with blue exchange are the new quote coming in and within a second or two, the TRADEBOT returns the right values.

     cryptsy Jul_29_14 08:00:05 PM  BTCD/BTC   0.00122272 0.00124613
FROM TRADEBOT cryptsy BTCD BTC: highbid vol 117.000000 0.00122272 || 0.00124613 vol 95.000000 lowask
     cryptsy Jul_29_14 08:00:11 PM  BTCD/BTC   0.00122273 0.00124613
FROM TRADEBOT cryptsy BTCD BTC: highbid vol 21.500000 0.00122273 || 0.00124613 vol 95.000000 lowask

So, still some cases to make sure it isnt flipped, but what this shows is that I am getting the data from the exchanges and making it available to the the picoc script inside the script, which means now scripts can look at the orderbooks and all the various timeframe bars to make decisions on what to do.

So, a bit more debugging and then adding action functions so the tradebots can do more than printouts and return values. For those of you not familiar with what this is all about, http://www.metatrader4.com/ shows a similar system for forex, but that is only for users of a particular broker. With what I am making anybody can run tradebots that are making decisions from external API data, blockchain data, etc.

I am pretty sure that there is no other system like this and the rate I code, I doubt anybody will be able to catchup :)
So, I plan to make InstantDEX the most powerful automated trading platform in the decentralized arena

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 30, 2014, 07:50:59 pm
I have to take two weeks off from tradebots coding

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: Tosch110 on July 30, 2014, 09:58:40 pm
Cant kushti take over if its programming trade bots? I have heard he is an expert on this  ;D
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 30, 2014, 10:13:56 pm
Cant kushti take over if its programming trade bots? I have heard he is an expert on this  ;D
programming tradebots is a bit different from creating the language that lets you make them, plus he can do Java and is best for making NXT core stuff that I cant do

Dont worry, my 2 weeks off will be due to implementing Teleport and this ties into tradebots as they will be able to use this function
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: Tosch110 on July 30, 2014, 10:24:11 pm
Cant kushti take over if its programming trade bots? I have heard he is an expert on this  ;D
programming tradebots is a bit different from creating the language that lets you make them, plus he can do Java and is best for making NXT core stuff that I cant do

Dont worry, my 2 weeks off will be due to implementing Teleport and this ties into tradebots as they will be able to use this function

keen. Can you teleport me to your place and teach me all the stuff you are doing? :D
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: Daedelus on July 30, 2014, 11:45:52 pm
Cant kushti take over if its programming trade bots? I have heard he is an expert on this  ;D
Dont worry, my 2 weeks off will be due to implementing Teleport and this ties into tradebots as they will be able to use this function

Ok, you can't just say that and leave!

Is teleport the new name for NxtCash/NxtMixer?
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on July 31, 2014, 12:33:59 am
Cant kushti take over if its programming trade bots? I have heard he is an expert on this  ;D
Dont worry, my 2 weeks off will be due to implementing Teleport and this ties into tradebots as they will be able to use this function

Ok, you can't just say that and leave!

Is teleport the new name for NxtCash/NxtMixer?
Well Teleport is under the NXTprivacy charter and so NXTprivacy will be getting revenues from this
I think it is pretty significant but I want to just get it done ASAP and leave the marketing to others
I try to solve all the issues with the competing anon techs, and I believe I came close
more details on BTCD thread I am too busy to be cross posting
Dont worry, NXT is big beneficiary from this as things will be keyed off of NXT accounts and of course it is tightly integrated with InstantDEX/NXT AE, etc

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: TwinWinNerD on October 08, 2014, 08:45:57 pm
Is there any update on this asset?
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on October 08, 2014, 11:29:51 pm
Is there any update on this asset?
now that the privacyNetwork is stabilizing and even has cloud storage, Teleport will be able to be finalized and then it is InstantDEX/Tradebots. Those two are related and will become the active coded projects soon. All the networking is actually vitally needed by InstantDEX, so in essence great progress has been made, just in the foundation that InstantDEX/Tradebots needs.

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: farl4bit on December 07, 2014, 06:20:44 pm
Any more updates James?
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: evitor on December 07, 2014, 06:49:23 pm
good question  ;)
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on December 07, 2014, 07:00:53 pm
Any more updates James?
https://github.com/jl777/libjl777

Need to get MMatrix done, hook up DB MGW to telepods, add SuperNET API glue to the C interpreter, port code from this summer.

Last pieces of the jigsaw puzzle. Pretty much all of SuperNET core needs to be solid before the Tradebots can be activated. The good news is that SkyNET will be able to remote them.

James
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: _mr_e on December 07, 2014, 09:39:55 pm
Any more updates James?
https://github.com/jl777/libjl777

Need to get MMatrix done, hook up DB MGW to telepods, add SuperNET API glue to the C interpreter, port code from this summer.

Last pieces of the jigsaw puzzle. Pretty much all of SuperNET core needs to be solid before the Tradebots can be activated. The good news is that SkyNET will be able to remote them.

James
What do you mean by remote them?
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: bezbezbez on December 08, 2014, 07:48:45 pm
Hello, James.
What kind of dividents investors will recieve from Tradebots asset? It will be coins like -> Bannercoin, SVMcoin and Nodecoin, or smth else? Am i right?
Thnx  ;)
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on December 08, 2014, 08:33:26 pm
Hello, James.
What kind of dividents investors will recieve from Tradebots asset? It will be coins like -> Bannercoin, SVMcoin and Nodecoin, or smth else? Am i right?
Thnx  ;)
The charter for NXTcoinsco has changed to being Tradebots. As such it will get two main sources of revenues, 30% revshare with InstantDEX and also profit sharing with tradebot writers and the people that subscribe to the tradebot signals, like PAMM accounts
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: printshop on January 31, 2015, 10:41:24 am
Hi guys! Just out of curiosity, this is listed as an active, dividend paying asset in the assets list in the sticky on the assets board.

But I can't find any information about past or future payouts. Is this an actively paying asset? Where can I find information about past payments? Thanks!
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on January 31, 2015, 10:44:58 am
Hi guys! Just out of curiosity, this is listed as an active, dividend paying asset in the assets list in the sticky on the assets board.

But I can't find any information about past or future payouts. Is this an actively paying asset? Where can I find information about past payments? Thanks!
none yet, hope to get it active and paying out in Q1
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: Stadtfeger on April 18, 2015, 12:09:10 pm
Hi guys! Just out of curiosity, this is listed as an active, dividend paying asset in the assets list in the sticky on the assets board.

But I can't find any information about past or future payouts. Is this an actively paying asset? Where can I find information about past payments? Thanks!
none yet, hope to get it active and paying out in Q1

interesting trading volume on AE , are there any news?
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on April 18, 2015, 12:36:28 pm
Hi guys! Just out of curiosity, this is listed as an active, dividend paying asset in the assets list in the sticky on the assets board.

But I can't find any information about past or future payouts. Is this an actively paying asset? Where can I find information about past payments? Thanks!
none yet, hope to get it active and paying out in Q1

interesting trading volume on AE , are there any news?
just some arbitrages
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: Stadtfeger on April 18, 2015, 02:57:33 pm
so I will not buy it?
no dividends, just one of many asset?

james what is planned with tradebots?

When can the investors expect dividends?

next year? maybe not at all?

where can I find information about tradebots or NXTcoinsco?
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on April 18, 2015, 10:57:16 pm
so I will not buy it?
no dividends, just one of many asset?

james what is planned with tradebots?

When can the investors expect dividends?

next year? maybe not at all?

where can I find information about tradebots or NXTcoinsco?
it will get 15% of InstantDEX revshare
plus other revenues sources on top
but this puts a floor value at 30% InstantDEX price

at this point we need more testers for InstantDEX, that seems to be the bottleneck, so when will we get the testers?
then we will be able to release and then there will be revenues to share
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: Stadtfeger on June 14, 2015, 09:54:52 am
Is there news from when tradebots is launched?

Can you tell how the development goes ahead?
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: BadAss on June 23, 2015, 09:29:26 pm
Just get yourself invited into supernet slack and join the beta testers. Development is going well, but we need testers to get rid of bugs.

Are you the one?
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: randombit on September 07, 2015, 07:29:47 pm
Hello James,

in of the latest Supernet Newsletter, you ve said this here,

‘Tradebots/NXTcoinsco gets 30% the revenues that InstantDEX asset holders get, so from a valuation standpoint it is worth at least 30% of InstantDEX. Additionally it will get monetization from the tradebots leasing that it facilitates, it might even do some trading itself. Other than NXTprivacy I think it is one of the most undervalued. But NXTprivacy is further out, so it is longer term hodl."

What is exactly meant with that?, and are  Tradebots able to generate Revenue which will not shared with InstantDex Asset Holders. Is there any additional Benefit to hold Tradbots Assets instead of buy and hold direct InstantDeX Assets.

Thanks for clearyfiying.
Title: Re: NXTcoinsco should be called Tradebots asset! - make money making tradebots
Post by: jl777 on September 08, 2015, 03:16:36 am
Hello James,

in of the latest Supernet Newsletter, you ve said this here,

‘Tradebots/NXTcoinsco gets 30% the revenues that InstantDEX asset holders get, so from a valuation standpoint it is worth at least 30% of InstantDEX. Additionally it will get monetization from the tradebots leasing that it facilitates, it might even do some trading itself. Other than NXTprivacy I think it is one of the most undervalued. But NXTprivacy is further out, so it is longer term hodl."

What is exactly meant with that?, and are  Tradebots able to generate Revenue which will not shared with InstantDex Asset Holders. Is there any additional Benefit to hold Tradbots Assets instead of buy and hold direct InstantDeX Assets.

Thanks for clearyfiying.
tradebots will generate revenues in addition to the revshare it gets from instantdex, via a service where bot makers can do profit sharing with investors, and for the brokering of this, a reasonable fee.

so the 30% of instantdex value is a floor, but for now just think of Tradebots as a mini-InstantDEX and any additional would be a bonus

James
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