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[ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
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Author Topic: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z  (Read 72244 times)

jl777

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http://neodice.com

NeoDICE is a fair betting game running on NXT blockchain. It relies upon an action-acquired know-how designed by Come-from-Beyond.

The neoDice gameplay is similar to that of the legendary satoshiDice, with a few differences, the most important one been the near realtime processing of the wagers.




FEATURES

- The game can be played via any NXT client supporting assets transfer and does not require any dedicated software or website.

- based on the Come-from-Beyond's know-how, neoDICE processes unconfirmed transactions, making the game nearly instantanious.

- To determine winning or losing bets, neoDICE calculates SHA-3 hash of a combination of the transaction ID and a daily secret -- a number unknown to  the player. The previous day's secret as well as the hash of the current day's secret is published, providing for an easy way to verify wagers outcomes.

- The entire betting history is stored on the NXT blockchain ensuring the game's integrity and fairness.

- NeoDICE is as anonymous as players's NXT account number. It does not require any additional registration or authentication.

- NeoDICE is scheduled to become a part of the SuperNET reference client, ensuring the exposure to the wider-than-NXT crypto audience.

- NeoDICE house edge will be optimized to maximize dividends and is expected to start at 0.99%.
 



DEVELOPMENT STATUS:

NeoDICE is being actively coded by several developers represented by hash. jl777 and C-f-B are the project consultants.

Currently the neoDICE project successfully completed the proof of concept stage.

The upcoming milestones and tentative timeline:

Mid. OctoberBeta testing starts
Beginning of November    Release of the game on the mainnet, playable via NXT client and SuperNET GUI
Mid. NovemberRelease of neoDICE plugin for NXT client and SuperNET GUI
Mid. DecemberRelease of the neoDICE website, allowing gameplay without NXT client




NeoDICE ASSET:

100% of revenues will be distributed to assetholders. This was based on my advice and the fact that the developers and maintainers will HODL sizable NeoDICE means the low operating overhead from decentralized architecture will be able to be covered from the dividends. This method perfectly aligns the interests of asset buyers and the developers and removes any issues about what the overhead costs will be.

Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH
« Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 06:10:06 am by jl777 »
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TwinWinNerD

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Great!

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I wish that 'know how' was available publically, some cool stuff could be made with being able to accept unconfirmed transactions with certainty.
at some point after this is established, would you consider posting the method publically?
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jl777

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I wish that 'know how' was available publically, some cool stuff could be made with being able to accept unconfirmed transactions with certainty.
at some point after this is established, would you consider posting the method publically?
If you volunteer to code a generic version to create a verifiable random number distribution for Privatebet, then you would need to be given access to implement this.

Also, it does not allow to accept any unconfirmed tx, but there are mechanisms to detect attempts cheat, so this technique can be extended to create a statistical distribution, but not necessarily allow for accepting unconfirmed tx.

James
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a7594li

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cool!  Chinese QQ Group:288790337
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 01:17:13 am by a7594li »
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allwelder

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Great.Bet is coming.
I think bet is a great method for using NXT like satoshiDice did.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 12:40:37 am by allwelder »
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prometheus

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is there a known date for when assets will be distributed?
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jl777

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is there a known date for when assets will be distributed?
no

and I wont announce any specific ex-dividend time or block
it will arrive when it does, until then it is not there

so you will know when it arrives in your acct

James
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jones

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I wish that 'know how' was available publically, some cool stuff could be made with being able to accept unconfirmed transactions with certainty.
at some point after this is established, would you consider posting the method publically?
If you volunteer to code a generic version to create a verifiable random number distribution for Privatebet, then you would need to be given access to implement this.

Also, it does not allow to accept any unconfirmed tx, but there are mechanisms to detect attempts cheat, so this technique can be extended to create a statistical distribution, but not necessarily allow for accepting unconfirmed tx.

James
sounds like some cool code, I doubt I have the experience with C code (I assume that's what is used) to make something like this, I am not a simple C programmer  ;D

I will give it some thought on how this is done, i always like having something to think about, with probably random numbers and fraud transaction finding, this should be good.
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a7594li

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Hi,Chinese translation of the post:https://nxtforum.org/(chinese)/neodice-nxt/
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jl777

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I wish that 'know how' was available publically, some cool stuff could be made with being able to accept unconfirmed transactions with certainty.
at some point after this is established, would you consider posting the method publically?
If you volunteer to code a generic version to create a verifiable random number distribution for Privatebet, then you would need to be given access to implement this.

Also, it does not allow to accept any unconfirmed tx, but there are mechanisms to detect attempts cheat, so this technique can be extended to create a statistical distribution, but not necessarily allow for accepting unconfirmed tx.

James
sounds like some cool code, I doubt I have the experience with C code (I assume that's what is used) to make something like this, I am not a simple C programmer  ;D

I will give it some thought on how this is done, i always like having something to think about, with probably random numbers and fraud transaction finding, this should be good.
I am not doing the dev work, so it is not in C
probably some higher level language.
hash would know

in any case the language is secondary, the method is the key
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jl777

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There are 98'894 unredeemed TOKEN assets so that is 6000+ NeoDICE assets that will be donated to valarmg as the dividend account will receive the NeoDICE dividend

I am sure valarmg wont mind if you delay your redemption of TOKEN <-> SuperNET

If you have TOKEN on NXT AE, send it to: NXT-7Y5B-J8LQ-SL5P-3ULFL (alias: RedeemTOKEN)
It will be converted to SuperNET and sent back to your account within 24 hours. It is done via a manual process run by valarmg

The dividend can happen at any time, no complaints if you miss your dividend due to delay converting TOKEN


James
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A
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 11:04:22 pm by buybitcoinscanada »
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jl777

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There are 98'894 unredeemed TOKEN assets so that is 6000+ NeoDICE assets that will be donated to valarmg as the dividend account will receive the NeoDICE dividend

I am sure valarmg wont mind if you delay your redemption of TOKEN <-> SuperNET

If you have TOKEN on NXT AE, send it to: NXT-7Y5B-J8LQ-SL5P-3ULFL (alias: RedeemTOKEN)
It will be converted to SuperNET and sent back to your account within 24 hours. It is done via a manual process run by valarmg

The dividend can happen at any time, no complaints if you miss your dividend due to delay converting TOKEN


James

This is bs. I'm out of the country before token redemption started and not back until monday. Could be any of several legitimate reasons that people arent able to redeem their supernet tokens right away and you threaten to confiscate their dividends?. Give one good reason why you cant just correlate unredeemed token assets to the accounts and send out dividends to them or simply wait until all/most supernet tokens are redeemed.
The rate of token redemption has fallen to where it looks like it will take weeks, if not longer.

First of all, this is a surprise dividend that came out of the blue, so it isnt really a confiscation.

However, I can promise to not dividend out before Tuesday. If anybody else needs more time, we can certainly make arrangements, but manually processing 100+ dividends is a lot of work and my goal is to get all the TOKEN redeemed as soon as possible

James
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satoshi

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 Give one good reason why you cant just correlate unredeemed token assets to the accounts and send out dividends to them or simply wait until all/most supernet tokens are redeemed.

imho, this is jl777 method to encourage token holders to redeem.

I am sure 100,000 token holders are not travelling :)
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qbd1313

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awesome
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a7594li

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Hi,Chinese translation of the post:https://nxtforum.org/(chinese)/neodice-nxt/
Thanks for translation.
You're welcome,I would be very grateful if you give a tip.LOL
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jl777

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allwelder

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Hi,Chinese translation of the post:https://nxtforum.org/(chinese)/neodice-nxt/
Thanks for translation.
You're welcome,I would be very grateful if you give a tip.LOL
PM me your address
Thanks for jL777's generous tip.
@a7594li  Let's do more to let more ppl know better about Nxt and related asset as we talked with QQ.

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a7594li

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It's my pleasure,I like it very much,My interest is to help more people.Thanks for jl777's generous tip.

@allwelder OK,I will do my best.
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skywave

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Quote
NeoDICE ASSET:

100% of revenues will be distributed to assetholders.

I apologize but I'm a bit confused?
How do I get hold of the NeoDICE asset? I don't see an ID in the OP?

edit: oohhhh my bad - it's in the thread header :)
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skywave

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hmmm - is it not possible to buy any of these assets yet (NXT AE)?
I see a few buy orders - but no sell orders - or even an asset price?
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jl777

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hmmm - is it not possible to buy any of these assets yet (NXT AE)?
I see a few buy orders - but no sell orders - or even an asset price?
you will have to wait until the dividend goes out, but it cant go out until a lot more TOKEN is redeemed for SuperNET
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whatnxt

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Away till late Monday.

There are 98'894 unredeemed TOKEN assets so that is 6000+ NeoDICE assets that will be donated to valarmg as the dividend account will receive the NeoDICE dividend

I am sure valarmg wont mind if you delay your redemption of TOKEN <-> SuperNET

If you have TOKEN on NXT AE, send it to: NXT-7Y5B-J8LQ-SL5P-3ULFL (alias: RedeemTOKEN)
It will be converted to SuperNET and sent back to your account within 24 hours. It is done via a manual process run by valarmg

The dividend can happen at any time, no complaints if you miss your dividend due to delay converting TOKEN


James
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skywave

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hmmm - is it not possible to buy any of these assets yet (NXT AE)?
I see a few buy orders - but no sell orders - or even an asset price?
you will have to wait until the dividend goes out, but it cant go out until a lot more TOKEN is redeemed for SuperNET

thx jl777.

but still - maybe I'm a bit thick-skulled so I don't quite understand this with NeoDICE. Is it like this:

For now a NeoDICE asset has no price/value.
I own UNITY assets (converted from TOKENs).
Once the remaining TOKENs are converted the dividend for the UNITY assets will run for the first time.
The dividend is the NeoDICE function.
Once the NeoDICE function has been used first time it will be available to buy as a NeoDICE asset on the NXT AE at a pre-determined base price.

Maybe I clutter up with this?
I belong in the very old end of the human age-group - yet I am very much into everything crypto and digital currency - but can sometimes find it daunting to get an overview.


« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 08:46:17 am by skywave »
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jl777

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hmmm - is it not possible to buy any of these assets yet (NXT AE)?
I see a few buy orders - but no sell orders - or even an asset price?
you will have to wait until the dividend goes out, but it cant go out until a lot more TOKEN is redeemed for SuperNET

thx jl777.

but still - maybe I'm a bit thick-skulled so I don't quite understand this with NeoDICE. Is it like this:

For now a NeoDICE asset has no price/value.
I own UNITY assets (converted from TOKENs).
Once the remaining TOKENs are converted the dividend for the UNITY assets will run for the first time.
The dividend is the NeoDICE function.
Once the NeoDICE function has been used first time it will be available to buy as a NeoDICE asset on the NXT AE at a pre-determined base price.

Maybe I clutter up with this?
I belong in the very old end of the human age-group - yet I am very much into everything crypto and digital currency - but can sometimes find it daunting to get an overview.
close, but what will happen is that when enough people have redeemed the TOKEN for SuperNET, I can do a NeoDICE dividend without too much screaming or being called names. Clearly if I did it now, many will be angry at me as TOKEN wont get any dividend, but SuperNET/UNITY will

so, this is strong motivation for people to redeem.

The NeoDICE will be like the Atomic and Freemarket where the NXTventure dividend was the first time it starts trading. So the market will set the price. This way, I dont have to worry about making any mistakes on setting the price. The market will pay what it will pay.

So, if you have UNITY, you will get some NeoDICE without doing anything. Once you have it, you can sell it or HODL

James
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skywave

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hmmm - is it not possible to buy any of these assets yet (NXT AE)?
I see a few buy orders - but no sell orders - or even an asset price?
you will have to wait until the dividend goes out, but it cant go out until a lot more TOKEN is redeemed for SuperNET

thx jl777.

but still - maybe I'm a bit thick-skulled so I don't quite understand this with NeoDICE. Is it like this:

For now a NeoDICE asset has no price/value.
I own UNITY assets (converted from TOKENs).
Once the remaining TOKENs are converted the dividend for the UNITY assets will run for the first time.
The dividend is the NeoDICE function.
Once the NeoDICE function has been used first time it will be available to buy as a NeoDICE asset on the NXT AE at a pre-determined base price.

Maybe I clutter up with this?
I belong in the very old end of the human age-group - yet I am very much into everything crypto and digital currency - but can sometimes find it daunting to get an overview.
close, but what will happen is that when enough people have redeemed the TOKEN for SuperNET, I can do a NeoDICE dividend without too much screaming or being called names. Clearly if I did it now, many will be angry at me as TOKEN wont get any dividend, but SuperNET/UNITY will

so, this is strong motivation for people to redeem.

The NeoDICE will be like the Atomic and Freemarket where the NXTventure dividend was the first time it starts trading. So the market will set the price. This way, I dont have to worry about making any mistakes on setting the price. The market will pay what it will pay.

So, if you have UNITY, you will get some NeoDICE without doing anything. Once you have it, you can sell it or HODL

James

aha thx - much clearer to me now :)

regarding all the bashing I see you are getting I feel sry for you - hope you are strong enough to cope?
It amazes me that people cannot see the visions you have  - and all the other developers/inventors within the industry for that matter.
Why can't people understand that we are on the threshold of changing how finance and economy will be working in the future, taking us away from the current corrupt systems all over the planet?
And that investing in this is a long term investment which will pay of eventually!

Just keep up the good work - it's a winner!
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joseginxt

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I have UNITY in Bter but withdrawall is disabled: are we going to receive the dividend in Bter? what is it necessary to do?
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jl777

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I have UNITY in Bter but withdrawall is disabled: are we going to receive the dividend in Bter? what is it necessary to do?
just wait, dividend will appear automatically, at least that is what I want to verify
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joseginxt

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I have UNITY in Bter but withdrawall is disabled: are we going to receive the dividend in Bter? what is it necessary to do?
just wait, dividend will appear automatically, at least that is what I want to verify

I thought that only dividends are received at the Asset Exchange.

Luck in the project and thank you very much for the quick response.
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jl777

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I have UNITY in Bter but withdrawall is disabled: are we going to receive the dividend in Bter? what is it necessary to do?
just wait, dividend will appear automatically, at least that is what I want to verify

I thought that only dividends are received at the Asset Exchange.

Luck in the project and thank you very much for the quick response.
yes, but bter has the asset on its internal account, so they will get a single dividend for all their customers. then they can allocate it by their customer's balances. this is why I want to test this now, so in the future it is reliable

there could very well be some issues and if it happens now, I dont think it is so bad, if it happened three months from now I can just hear all the screaming

James
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whatnxt

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However, I can promise to not dividend out before Tuesday. If anybody else needs more time, we can certainly make arrangements, but manually processing 100+ dividends is a lot of work and my goal is to get all the TOKEN redeemed as soon as possible

James

Thanks for this  :)
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rdanneskjoldr

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I think the % taken for the house should be studied further, as it will be key in NeoDice acceptance by users. I find the 2% too high. If for example just-dice has a 1% fee, maybe people will still gamble there even if Neodice service is better.

In gambling it seems you get more money the higher the rake is, but i dont see it that way, as the result is often the same after a big sample of plays from the user perspective: 100% of the money  lost. People use to think they just got unlucky on the last play, but it is just their EV ( equity value) materializing.

The only difference is that the longer the user plays, the experience will be more grateful, and the feeling of almost succeeding to win is bigger. More minutes of fun too, so they will be tempted to gamble more in the future. If you take all their money in 5 minutes, there isnt any satisfaction for the user.


This is a simulation of 100 plays with the EV of betting your whole stake starting with 1000 units.



It may seem you win more money the higher the rake is, but with a big enough sample, this is what i meant with the final result is always the same. Graph of 500 plays :



You are taking all the money anyway, but you give the user a bigger number of plays = more time of fun = closer feeling of almost winning
In a business where you have operational costs for that, you have to balance it, but here i dont think having a user making 100 more plays has any cost for NeoDice.

That is why i think it is a good idea to lower the rake to at least 1%. I would do it even lower, but then you also have to calculate the possibility of starting with a bad streak as the house and having to pay too much money for users. As the lower the edge for NeoDice is , the bigger chance of this happening. But in the long term with very big volume, this is no problem.


Is there a chance asset holders could vote on this? If the accounts with a huge % find what asset holders voted reasonable they can follow it. If it isnt so close they can always decide as developers still weight for 45%+ of the asset.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 02:37:41 pm by rdanneskjoldr »
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How is the bankroll of neoDICE composed?

What kelly-criterion is used for Bankrollmanagement?

Are the users able to invest?

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hat is why i think it is a good idea to lower the rake to at least 1%. I would do it even lower, but then you also have to calculate the possibility of starting with a bad streak as the house and having to pay too much money for users. As the lower the edge for NeoDice is , the bigger chance of this happening. But in the long term with very big volume, this is no problem.


Is there a chance asset holders could vote on this? If the accounts with a huge % find what asset holders voted reasonable they can follow it. If it isnt so close they can always decide as developers still weight for 45%+ of the asset.

+1 to 1% fee or lower. 2% is just too high.
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damon

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+1 to1% or lower
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It seems that JL777 sent tips to the translators from the shares owned by PrivateBet. The translation should be the developers & maintainers' work, so personally I think it should be covered by the shares owned by the developers & maintainers (45%).


Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH


P.S. I just updated the translation for the phrase "know-how": https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=5624.msg108736#msg108736

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TwinWinNerD

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It seems that JL777 sent tips to the translators from the shares owned by PrivateBet. The translation should be the developers & maintainers' work, so personally I think it should be covered by the shares owned by the developers & maintainers (45%).


Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH


P.S. I just updated the translation for the phrase "know-how": https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=5624.msg108736#msg108736



How much was paid as dividend?

If it is small, it doesn't really matter.

hash

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[...]That is why i think it is a good idea to lower the rake to at least 1%. I would do it even lower, but then you also have to calculate the possibility of starting with a bad streak as the house and having to pay too much money for users. As the lower the edge for NeoDice is , the bigger chance of this happening. But in the long term with very big volume, this is no problem.


Thanks rdanneskjoldr, very interesting observation.

Our expertise lies in coding and design, not in gaming theory, so we're learning on the way and appreciate any input.
The 2% was picked just because it was the house edge of (highly successful) SatoshiDice. We'll consider the reduction of it to 1%. A few simulations must be run first. Thanks again for the pointer.

On a slightly different topic, what do you (or others here) think would be a good range and gradation of the odds?
SatoshiDice for example has 15 steps of odds : payout, going from 97.6% : x1.004 down to 3% : x32, having two thirds of the steps in the lower than 50% range.
Do you think 10 steps could be enough? Do you think payout (multiplication) lower than x2 and higher than x100 is needed?

Thanks -)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 08:21:33 pm by hash »
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TwinWinNerD

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The most often used odds on just-dice included:
50%
49.5% (because of 1% house edge)
33% (because of 3x Payout)
66% (because of 1.5x payout)
98% and 97% because people like to bet on outcomes that are very very liekly, even though the house edge eats nearly all the potential winnings

I would include one or two extremely unlikely cases, like the 64000x payout on satoshi. 99999x was the highest payout on JD.

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Great to see this in development and I'm glad that James and Hash were able to team up.  I would also like to see the "know how" made public after NeoDice has been launched, as I think it could be used for a number of really interesting projects.  Great work on this!
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It seems that JL777 sent tips to the translators from the shares owned by PrivateBet. The translation should be the developers & maintainers' work, so personally I think it should be covered by the shares owned by the developers & maintainers (45%).


Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH


P.S. I just updated the translation for the phrase "know-how": https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=5624.msg108736#msg108736
It is my assessment that the more vested people we have who are active, especially in China, the better for Privatebet. I believe my judgement on such matters has been fairly good so far. Privatebet needs promotion and I have allocated 1% toward this. do you feel 1% toward promotion is too much?

James
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jl777

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Great to see this in development and I'm glad that James and Hash were able to team up.  I would also like to see the "know how" made public after NeoDice has been launched, as I think it could be used for a number of really interesting projects.  Great work on this!
I plan to generalize to create provable random distributions so it can be used for any game of chance. This will become part of SuperNET API

James
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jl777

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I think the % taken for the house should be studied further, as it will be key in NeoDice acceptance by users. I find the 2% too high. If for example just-dice has a 1% fee, maybe people will still gamble there even if Neodice service is better.

In gambling it seems you get more money the higher the rake is, but i dont see it that way, as the result is often the same after a big sample of plays from the user perspective: 100% of the money  lost. People use to think they just got unlucky on the last play, but it is just their EV ( equity value) materializing.

The only difference is that the longer the user plays, the experience will be more grateful, and the feeling of almost succeeding to win is bigger. More minutes of fun too, so they will be tempted to gamble more in the future. If you take all their money in 5 minutes, there isnt any satisfaction for the user.


This is a simulation of 100 plays with the EV of betting your whole stake starting with 1000 units.



It may seem you win more money the higher the rake is, but with a big enough sample, this is what i meant with the final result is always the same. Graph of 500 plays :



You are taking all the money anyway, but you give the user a bigger number of plays = more time of fun = closer feeling of almost winning
In a business where you have operational costs for that, you have to balance it, but here i dont think having a user making 100 more plays has any cost for NeoDice.

That is why i think it is a good idea to lower the rake to at least 1%. I would do it even lower, but then you also have to calculate the possibility of starting with a bad streak as the house and having to pay too much money for users. As the lower the edge for NeoDice is , the bigger chance of this happening. But in the long term with very big volume, this is no problem.


Is there a chance asset holders could vote on this? If the accounts with a huge % find what asset holders voted reasonable they can follow it. If it isnt so close they can always decide as developers still weight for 45%+ of the asset.
There is no need for voting if the 2% is not optimal. Everybody's interests are aligned, so if 1% is optimum, then it shall be 1%. If 0.1% is optimum, then it shall be 0.1%

We look for feedback on the best fee structure and maybe this can be experimented with to see how it does, eg. start with the lower fees and then gradually increase it until we see a measurable dropoff

James

P.S. we need need to have the NXT tx fee covered, so for small bets the percentages will be distorted.
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jl777

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How is the bankroll of neoDICE composed?

What kelly-criterion is used for Bankrollmanagement?

Are the users able to invest?
It sounds like you want to be actively involved in NeoDICE.
this is great!
PM me your suggestions
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TwinWinNerD

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How is the bankroll of neoDICE composed?

What kelly-criterion is used for Bankrollmanagement?

Are the users able to invest?
It sounds like you want to be actively involved in NeoDICE.
this is great!
PM me your suggestions

Hash contacted me already per PM and he said he will get in touch with me within 1 week.

BTCDDev

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Sorry if I missed it somewhere,

when will the neoDice assets be distributed to assetholders?

Matthew
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TwinWinNerD

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Sorry if I missed it somewhere,

when will the neoDice assets be distributed to assetholders?

Matthew

around tuesday probably.

Jimmy2011

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It seems that JL777 sent tips to the translators from the shares owned by PrivateBet. The translation should be the developers & maintainers' work, so personally I think it should be covered by the shares owned by the developers & maintainers (45%).


Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH


P.S. I just updated the translation for the phrase "know-how": https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=5624.msg108736#msg108736
It is my assessment that the more vested people we have who are active, especially in China, the better for Privatebet. I believe my judgement on such matters has been fairly good so far. Privatebet needs promotion and I have allocated 1% toward this. do you feel 1% toward promotion is too much?

James

Sorry, I can't see how that tips were directly related to Privatebet promotion? The readers of the translation most probably just know what's neoDice. If you think the reader can find PrivateBet through neoDice, they may also learn about nxtventure, jlh and all others(*ad).

It's just my personal view based on the public information that 777 * 2 = 1554 neoDice shares were covered by Privatebet. It's OK, James, it's your asset and it's up to your decision.


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jl777

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It seems that JL777 sent tips to the translators from the shares owned by PrivateBet. The translation should be the developers & maintainers' work, so personally I think it should be covered by the shares owned by the developers & maintainers (45%).


Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH


P.S. I just updated the translation for the phrase "know-how": https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=5624.msg108736#msg108736
It is my assessment that the more vested people we have who are active, especially in China, the better for Privatebet. I believe my judgement on such matters has been fairly good so far. Privatebet needs promotion and I have allocated 1% toward this. do you feel 1% toward promotion is too much?

James

Sorry, I can't see how that tips were directly related to Privatebet promotion? The readers of the translation most probably just know what's neoDice. If you think the reader can find PrivateBet through neoDice, they may also learn about nxtventure, jlh and all others(*ad).

It's just my personal view based on the public information that 777 * 2 = 1554 neoDice shares were covered by Privatebet. It's OK, James, it's your asset and it's up to your decision.
Thanks.
I have found that when somebody owns a specific asset, then they tend to start thinking of ways to make that asset worth more.

Like sending NXT to someone, they might start finding out about all the other cryptos but since they actually have the NXT, they tend to start helping the NXT

James
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FunBot

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Thanks.
I have found that when somebody owns a specific asset, then they tend to start thinking of ways to make that asset worth more.

Like sending NXT to someone, they might start finding out about all the other cryptos but since they actually have the NXT, they tend to start helping the NXT

James

This is a good way of thinking about it.

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Jimmy2011

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It seems that JL777 sent tips to the translators from the shares owned by PrivateBet. The translation should be the developers & maintainers' work, so personally I think it should be covered by the shares owned by the developers & maintainers (45%).


Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH


P.S. I just updated the translation for the phrase "know-how": https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=5624.msg108736#msg108736
It is my assessment that the more vested people we have who are active, especially in China, the better for Privatebet. I believe my judgement on such matters has been fairly good so far. Privatebet needs promotion and I have allocated 1% toward this. do you feel 1% toward promotion is too much?

James

Sorry, I can't see how that tips were directly related to Privatebet promotion? The readers of the translation most probably just know what's neoDice. If you think the reader can find PrivateBet through neoDice, they may also learn about nxtventure, jlh and all others(*ad).

It's just my personal view based on the public information that 777 * 2 = 1554 neoDice shares were covered by Privatebet. It's OK, James, it's your asset and it's up to your decision.
Thanks.
I have found that when somebody owns a specific asset, then they tend to start thinking of ways to make that asset worth more.

Like sending NXT to someone, they might start finding out about all the other cryptos but since they actually have the NXT, they tend to start helping the NXT

James

You are actually wrong. I own so many assets. Have you seen I tended to start thinking of ways to make those assets worth more? I actually own Nxt since Nov. 2013 before you James (BTW, I own Bitcoin in 2011 before you James). Of course, I'm not so active than you James to make more money and help Nxt. I try my best to do what I can do within what I can control.

What I posted is just what I care the principle that matters when you dealt with those matters. I was a little curious about those distributions and then found those 777 tips, and also put that fact on the table. You James can't reply with those BS and didn't interpret the core of the questions.


« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 01:29:20 am by Jimmy2011 »
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allwelder

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It seems that JL777 sent tips to the translators from the shares owned by PrivateBet. The translation should be the developers & maintainers' work, so personally I think it should be covered by the shares owned by the developers & maintainers (45%).


Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH


P.S. I just updated the translation for the phrase "know-how": https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=5624.msg108736#msg108736
It is my assessment that the more vested people we have who are active, especially in China, the better for Privatebet. I believe my judgement on such matters has been fairly good so far. Privatebet needs promotion and I have allocated 1% toward this. do you feel 1% toward promotion is too much?

James

Sorry, I can't see how that tips were directly related to Privatebet promotion? The readers of the translation most probably just know what's neoDice. If you think the reader can find PrivateBet through neoDice, they may also learn about nxtventure, jlh and all others(*ad).

It's just my personal view based on the public information that 777 * 2 = 1554 neoDice shares were covered by Privatebet. It's OK, James, it's your asset and it's up to your decision.
Thanks.
I have found that when somebody owns a specific asset, then they tend to start thinking of ways to make that asset worth more.

Like sending NXT to someone, they might start finding out about all the other cryptos but since they actually have the NXT, they tend to start helping the NXT

James

You are actually wrong. I own so many assets. Have you seen I tended to start thinking of ways to make those assets worth more? I actually own Nxt since Nov. 2013 before you James (BTW, I own Bitcoin in 2011 before you James). Of course, I'm not so active than you James to make more money and help Nxt. I try my best to do what I can do within what I can control.

What I posted is just what I care the principle that matters when you dealt with those matters. I was a little curious about those distributions and then found those 777 tips, and also put that fact on the table. You James can't reply with those BS and didn't interpret the core of the questions.
These little tips almost have no effect to whole Neodice or private project.
Another,what do you mean by post your history of Crypto holding?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 02:08:58 am by allwelder »
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Jimmy2011

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It seems that JL777 sent tips to the translators from the shares owned by PrivateBet. The translation should be the developers & maintainers' work, so personally I think it should be covered by the shares owned by the developers & maintainers (45%).


Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH


P.S. I just updated the translation for the phrase "know-how": https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=5624.msg108736#msg108736
It is my assessment that the more vested people we have who are active, especially in China, the better for Privatebet. I believe my judgement on such matters has been fairly good so far. Privatebet needs promotion and I have allocated 1% toward this. do you feel 1% toward promotion is too much?

James

Sorry, I can't see how that tips were directly related to Privatebet promotion? The readers of the translation most probably just know what's neoDice. If you think the reader can find PrivateBet through neoDice, they may also learn about nxtventure, jlh and all others(*ad).

It's just my personal view based on the public information that 777 * 2 = 1554 neoDice shares were covered by Privatebet. It's OK, James, it's your asset and it's up to your decision.
Thanks.
I have found that when somebody owns a specific asset, then they tend to start thinking of ways to make that asset worth more.

Like sending NXT to someone, they might start finding out about all the other cryptos but since they actually have the NXT, they tend to start helping the NXT

James

You are actually wrong. I own so many assets. Have you seen I tended to start thinking of ways to make those assets worth more? I actually own Nxt since Nov. 2013 before you James (BTW, I own Bitcoin in 2011 before you James). Of course, I'm not so active than you James to make more money and help Nxt. I try my best to do what I can do within what I can control.

What I posted is just what I care the principle that matters when you dealt with those matters. I was a little curious about those distributions and then found those 777 tips, and also put that fact on the table. You James can't reply with those BS and didn't interpret the core of the questions.
These little tips almost have no effect to whole Neodice or private project.
Another,what do you mean by post your history of Crypto holding?

You are right, but do you think they are private projects? No private projects, all those are public on the chain.

You can understand what it means to James's reply, though it's not so important effect on neoDice project, and I have told that I just care about the principle dealing with those matters, nothing I can do without my control. Anyway, it doesn't matter, move on all your work.

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jl777

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It seems that JL777 sent tips to the translators from the shares owned by PrivateBet. The translation should be the developers & maintainers' work, so personally I think it should be covered by the shares owned by the developers & maintainers (45%).


Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH


P.S. I just updated the translation for the phrase "know-how": https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=5624.msg108736#msg108736
It is my assessment that the more vested people we have who are active, especially in China, the better for Privatebet. I believe my judgement on such matters has been fairly good so far. Privatebet needs promotion and I have allocated 1% toward this. do you feel 1% toward promotion is too much?

James

Sorry, I can't see how that tips were directly related to Privatebet promotion? The readers of the translation most probably just know what's neoDice. If you think the reader can find PrivateBet through neoDice, they may also learn about nxtventure, jlh and all others(*ad).

It's just my personal view based on the public information that 777 * 2 = 1554 neoDice shares were covered by Privatebet. It's OK, James, it's your asset and it's up to your decision.
Thanks.
I have found that when somebody owns a specific asset, then they tend to start thinking of ways to make that asset worth more.

Like sending NXT to someone, they might start finding out about all the other cryptos but since they actually have the NXT, they tend to start helping the NXT

James

You are actually wrong. I own so many assets. Have you seen I tended to start thinking of ways to make those assets worth more? I actually own Nxt since Nov. 2013 before you James (BTW, I own Bitcoin in 2011 before you James). Of course, I'm not so active than you James to make more money and help Nxt. I try my best to do what I can do within what I can control.

What I posted is just what I care the principle that matters when you dealt with those matters. I was a little curious about those distributions and then found those 777 tips, and also put that fact on the table. You James can't reply with those BS and didn't interpret the core of the questions.
These little tips almost have no effect to whole Neodice or private project.
Another,what do you mean by post your history of Crypto holding?

You are right, but do you think they are private projects? No private projects, all those are public on the chain.

You can understand what it means to James's reply, though it's not so important effect on neoDice project, and I have told that I just care about the principle dealing with those matters, nothing I can do without my control. Anyway, it doesn't matter, move on all your work.
Since you seem to want to micromanage my Privatebet actions, I hope you can approve of my sending some NeoDICE to longzai1988 who will be integrating it into the SuperNET GUI. This is beyond the scope of what the NeoDICE devs can do as it is in the SuperNET GUI and it is my opinion that having NeoDICE integrated into the SuperNET GUI will benefit both NeoDICE and its assetholders, which includes Privatebet.

Is this acceptable? You seem to be implying that I am doing something wrong.

Now, Privatebet is a public project and I have nothing to hide, it is all open. However, that doesnt mean that I should have to explain every expenditure, especially when they are relatively small. I might make over 100 decisions in a day across the range of all the assets, so I use my judgement and do not submit formal requests for spending. If I had to submit such paperwork for all expenditures, I would either spend a lot of time filling out forms, or just not do these things. Either seems a suboptimal outcome.

I work intuitively and sometimes there is no "logical" explanation for what I do, so to explain all the decisions would not necessarily make logical sense. Maybe I would have to explain some large interconnected strategy. I hope that you can judge me by the results and not be micromanaging every single expenditure.

If you want to form an expenditure approval committee and take part in the active running of Privatebet, then we can discuss that.

James
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JamesList

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I don't like the 2% house edge. It's like in casino.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 09:58:20 am by JamesList »
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bitcoinpaul

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I don't like the 2% house edge. It's like in casino.

shocker :D
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301 error

ninja

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Does bter support the UNITY snapshot on NeoDICE?
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Does bter support the UNITY snapshot on NeoDICE?
Yes.
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crumb-bum

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Can anybody give me even the vaguest sense of how much neodice might generate in revenues? I know next to nothing about online betting.
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BTCDDev

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Can anybody give me even the vaguest sense of how much neodice might generate in revenues? I know next to nothing about online betting.

I would say it really totally depends on daily volume wagered. With a 2% house edge, that should be the average amount profited and therefore distributed to assetholders.
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crumb-bum

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Okay, thanks. I guess we'll have to see how many people this draws. Will the players have to use a nxt / supernet client, or is there another way to wage bets?
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BTCDDev

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Okay, thanks. I guess we'll have to see how many people this draws. Will the players have to use a nxt / supernet client, or is there another way to wage bets?

from op:
Quote
The game can be played via any NXT client supporting assets transfer and does not require any dedicated software or website
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Excellent! Dice games are great to generate income.
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TwinWinNerD

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Dice Income depends on a few factors:

- House Edge
- Amount wagered
- Luck (Variance)
- cost

The houseedge times amount wagered gives the expected value. The revenue from the gamling will be normally distributed around the expected value and will tend to this % in the long run.

From this revenue the cost of running the gambling business will be deducted. This includes developement, mainainance, servercost and most importantnly the cost for providing the bankroll of the site. I don't yet know how this part is handeled, so it could be that the NXT needed for this are provided for free by supernet or else.

crumb-bum

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Thanks, twinwinnerd and btcddev. That was helpful.
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BTCDDev

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Dice Income depends on a few factors:

- House Edge
- Amount wagered
- Luck (Variance)
- cost

The houseedge times amount wagered gives the expected value. The revenue from the gamling will be normally distributed around the expected value and will tend to this % in the long run.

From this revenue the cost of running the gambling business will be deducted. This includes developement, mainainance, servercost and most importantnly the cost for providing the bankroll of the site. I don't yet know how this part is handeled, so it could be that the NXT needed for this are provided for free by supernet or else.

Just-Dice maintains its bankroll from public investments. Since the neoDice shares are not being initially sold on the open market to raise capital, I would guess the house bankroll would be provided either by SuperNET or NXTVenture.
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starfishi

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Excellent! Dice games are great to generate income.

In principle, yes. But a question came up in my mind: Isn´t beeing inside the NXT-Client or SuperNet and placing orders, buys or sells, a game in itself ?
So this NeoDice is located right inside the competition . . no ?
Well, my gambling-needs are satisfied with the market action, already !



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TwinWinNerD

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Dice Income depends on a few factors:

- House Edge
- Amount wagered
- Luck (Variance)
- cost

The houseedge times amount wagered gives the expected value. The revenue from the gamling will be normally distributed around the expected value and will tend to this % in the long run.

From this revenue the cost of running the gambling business will be deducted. This includes developement, mainainance, servercost and most importantnly the cost for providing the bankroll of the site. I don't yet know how this part is handeled, so it could be that the NXT needed for this are provided for free by supernet or else.

Just-Dice maintains its bankroll from public investments. Since the neoDice shares are not being initially sold on the open market to raise capital, I would guess the house bankroll would be provided either by SuperNET or NXTVenture.

Possibly. But I can't imagine such an entity providing the funds for free, so they will charge a monthly fee (or something else).

starfishi

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Excellent! Dice games are great to generate income.

In principle, yes. But a question came up in my mind: Isn´t beeing inside the NXT-Client or SuperNet and placing orders, buys or sells, a game in itself ?
So this NeoDice is located right inside the competition . . no ?
Well, my gambling-needs are satisfied with the market action, already !

Really, can i get an opinion on this ?  please. thanks. 

edit: hmm, nobody ?





« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 09:59:52 pm by starfishi »
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BTCDDev

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You mean in the same way mgw is a game?

I don't understand your question.
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Tosch110

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Excellent! Dice games are great to generate income.

In principle, yes. But a question came up in my mind: Isn´t beeing inside the NXT-Client or SuperNet and placing orders, buys or sells, a game in itself ?
So this NeoDice is located right inside the competition . . no ?
Well, my gambling-needs are satisfied with the market action, already !

Really, can i get an opinion on this ?  please. thanks. 

edit: hmm, nobody ?

if you consider market trading as a game - yes it is another game.
Firstly, even in gaming the market lives from competition, it would be boring with just one game out there.

Yet, neoDice is different and a dice game. This makes it an actual game, a casino game to be precise. If people (that like to play with risk such as playing with virtual currencies) start to use it they might win or loose a part of their money depending on the risk they put into it. But you do not have an instant double/tripple of your investment ('risk') on MGW ;)

Cassius

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Not much of a gambler or a speculative trader myself, but I'd say they cater to overlapping but very different interests :)
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starfishi

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Excellent! Dice games are great to generate income.

In principle, yes. But a question came up in my mind: Isn´t beeing inside the NXT-Client or SuperNet and placing orders, buys or sells, a game in itself ?
So this NeoDice is located right inside the competition . . no ?
Well, my gambling-needs are satisfied with the market action, already !

Really, can i get an opinion on this ?  please. thanks. 

edit: hmm, nobody ?

if you consider market trading as a game - yes it is another game.
Firstly, even in gaming the market lives from competition, it would be boring with just one game out there.

Yet, neoDice is different and a dice game. This makes it an actual game, a casino game to be precise. If people (that like to play with risk such as playing with virtual currencies) start to use it they might win or loose a part of their money depending on the risk they put into it. But you do not have an instant double/tripple of your investment ('risk') on MGW ;)

aahh, "instant" is the magic word here . . (I´m not a gamer, gambler, so i don`t really understand their world)  But, yeah, i want to get laid now, not later.  understood  :)

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jl777

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Dice Income depends on a few factors:

- House Edge
- Amount wagered
- Luck (Variance)
- cost

The houseedge times amount wagered gives the expected value. The revenue from the gamling will be normally distributed around the expected value and will tend to this % in the long run.

From this revenue the cost of running the gambling business will be deducted. This includes developement, mainainance, servercost and most importantnly the cost for providing the bankroll of the site. I don't yet know how this part is handeled, so it could be that the NXT needed for this are provided for free by supernet or else.

Just-Dice maintains its bankroll from public investments. Since the neoDice shares are not being initially sold on the open market to raise capital, I would guess the house bankroll would be provided either by SuperNET or NXTVenture.

Possibly. But I can't imagine such an entity providing the funds for free, so they will charge a monthly fee (or something else).
I would imagine the working capital needed for this can be obtained via some asset sales. As the volumes go up, the price of the asset should go up, so I dont think there is a big issue here
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TwinWinNerD

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Dice Income depends on a few factors:

- House Edge
- Amount wagered
- Luck (Variance)
- cost

The houseedge times amount wagered gives the expected value. The revenue from the gamling will be normally distributed around the expected value and will tend to this % in the long run.

From this revenue the cost of running the gambling business will be deducted. This includes developement, mainainance, servercost and most importantnly the cost for providing the bankroll of the site. I don't yet know how this part is handeled, so it could be that the NXT needed for this are provided for free by supernet or else.

Just-Dice maintains its bankroll from public investments. Since the neoDice shares are not being initially sold on the open market to raise capital, I would guess the house bankroll would be provided either by SuperNET or NXTVenture.

Possibly. But I can't imagine such an entity providing the funds for free, so they will charge a monthly fee (or something else).
I would imagine the working capital needed for this can be obtained via some asset sales. As the volumes go up, the price of the asset should go up, so I dont think there is a big issue here

The working capital needed for this is quite huge if you want to implement bankroll optimization rules. I am mainly referring to the kelly criterion.

Lets imagine you really do offer the 99000x payout option. Now if you want to offer a payout higher than 99000 NXT, lets say 500,000 or 1,000,000 max win, you will need to have a bankroll in the size of:
500,000/Houseedge --> 2% = 25,000,000 NXT , 1% = 50,000,000 NXT
1,000,000/Houseedge --> 2% = 50,000,000 NXT, 1% = 100,000,000 NXT

PS: 1,000,000/99000 = only a betsize of mearly 10 NXT!

starfishi

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"But, yeah, i want to get laid now, not later"

I think, i have described the definition of a gambler, right there !

Now, not later . . :)


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jl777

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Dice Income depends on a few factors:

- House Edge
- Amount wagered
- Luck (Variance)
- cost

The houseedge times amount wagered gives the expected value. The revenue from the gamling will be normally distributed around the expected value and will tend to this % in the long run.

From this revenue the cost of running the gambling business will be deducted. This includes developement, mainainance, servercost and most importantnly the cost for providing the bankroll of the site. I don't yet know how this part is handeled, so it could be that the NXT needed for this are provided for free by supernet or else.

Just-Dice maintains its bankroll from public investments. Since the neoDice shares are not being initially sold on the open market to raise capital, I would guess the house bankroll would be provided either by SuperNET or NXTVenture.

Possibly. But I can't imagine such an entity providing the funds for free, so they will charge a monthly fee (or something else).
I would imagine the working capital needed for this can be obtained via some asset sales. As the volumes go up, the price of the asset should go up, so I dont think there is a big issue here

The working capital needed for this is quite huge if you want to implement bankroll optimization rules. I am mainly referring to the kelly criterion.

Lets imagine you really do offer the 99000x payout option. Now if you want to offer a payout higher than 99000 NXT, lets say 500,000 or 1,000,000 max win, you will need to have a bankroll in the size of:
500,000/Houseedge --> 2% = 25,000,000 NXT , 1% = 50,000,000 NXT
1,000,000/Houseedge --> 2% = 50,000,000 NXT, 1% = 100,000,000 NXT

PS: 1,000,000/99000 = only a betsize of mearly 10 NXT!
are there any stats on the amount of bets at the various odds levels?
100000x odds seems quite extreme
what if only 100x are allowed?
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TwinWinNerD

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Dice Income depends on a few factors:

- House Edge
- Amount wagered
- Luck (Variance)
- cost

The houseedge times amount wagered gives the expected value. The revenue from the gamling will be normally distributed around the expected value and will tend to this % in the long run.

From this revenue the cost of running the gambling business will be deducted. This includes developement, mainainance, servercost and most importantnly the cost for providing the bankroll of the site. I don't yet know how this part is handeled, so it could be that the NXT needed for this are provided for free by supernet or else.

Just-Dice maintains its bankroll from public investments. Since the neoDice shares are not being initially sold on the open market to raise capital, I would guess the house bankroll would be provided either by SuperNET or NXTVenture.

Possibly. But I can't imagine such an entity providing the funds for free, so they will charge a monthly fee (or something else).
I would imagine the working capital needed for this can be obtained via some asset sales. As the volumes go up, the price of the asset should go up, so I dont think there is a big issue here

The working capital needed for this is quite huge if you want to implement bankroll optimization rules. I am mainly referring to the kelly criterion.

Lets imagine you really do offer the 99000x payout option. Now if you want to offer a payout higher than 99000 NXT, lets say 500,000 or 1,000,000 max win, you will need to have a bankroll in the size of:
500,000/Houseedge --> 2% = 25,000,000 NXT , 1% = 50,000,000 NXT
1,000,000/Houseedge --> 2% = 50,000,000 NXT, 1% = 100,000,000 NXT

PS: 1,000,000/99000 = only a betsize of mearly 10 NXT!
are there any stats on the amount of bets at the various odds levels?
100000x odds seems quite extreme
what if only 100x are allowed?

100000x was the maximum allowed odds on just-dice.com (the most successful dice site in terms of number of bets).

I remeber that dooglus posted an analysis back when it was still running. The highest payouts were quite famous iirc!

I think the reason for this is the same reason people play the lottery. They like the longshots. They like to imagine what it would feel like to win the "jackpot" even if it is extremely unlikely!

100000k is pretty steep but maybe 10000x could be offered?

jl777

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Dice Income depends on a few factors:

- House Edge
- Amount wagered
- Luck (Variance)
- cost

The houseedge times amount wagered gives the expected value. The revenue from the gamling will be normally distributed around the expected value and will tend to this % in the long run.

From this revenue the cost of running the gambling business will be deducted. This includes developement, mainainance, servercost and most importantnly the cost for providing the bankroll of the site. I don't yet know how this part is handeled, so it could be that the NXT needed for this are provided for free by supernet or else.

Just-Dice maintains its bankroll from public investments. Since the neoDice shares are not being initially sold on the open market to raise capital, I would guess the house bankroll would be provided either by SuperNET or NXTVenture.

Possibly. But I can't imagine such an entity providing the funds for free, so they will charge a monthly fee (or something else).
I would imagine the working capital needed for this can be obtained via some asset sales. As the volumes go up, the price of the asset should go up, so I dont think there is a big issue here

The working capital needed for this is quite huge if you want to implement bankroll optimization rules. I am mainly referring to the kelly criterion.

Lets imagine you really do offer the 99000x payout option. Now if you want to offer a payout higher than 99000 NXT, lets say 500,000 or 1,000,000 max win, you will need to have a bankroll in the size of:
500,000/Houseedge --> 2% = 25,000,000 NXT , 1% = 50,000,000 NXT
1,000,000/Houseedge --> 2% = 50,000,000 NXT, 1% = 100,000,000 NXT

PS: 1,000,000/99000 = only a betsize of mearly 10 NXT!
are there any stats on the amount of bets at the various odds levels?
100000x odds seems quite extreme
what if only 100x are allowed?

100000x was the maximum allowed odds on just-dice.com (the most successful dice site in terms of number of bets).

I remeber that dooglus posted an analysis back when it was still running. The highest payouts were quite famous iirc!

I think the reason for this is the same reason people play the lottery. They like the longshots. They like to imagine what it would feel like to win the "jackpot" even if it is extremely unlikely!

100000k is pretty steep but maybe 10000x could be offered?
I would advise against any lottery odds at first, unless the amount was capped. It is quite unlikely, but I do not want an extremely unlikely event to wipe out the bankroll.

So, we should start with 100x and then gradually increase the top odds and max amounts as the bankroll grows
some actual stats on what odds got the 90% of bets would be extremely helpful, I doubt it was 100000x

James
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BTCDDev

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Dice Income depends on a few factors:

- House Edge
- Amount wagered
- Luck (Variance)
- cost

The houseedge times amount wagered gives the expected value. The revenue from the gamling will be normally distributed around the expected value and will tend to this % in the long run.

From this revenue the cost of running the gambling business will be deducted. This includes developement, mainainance, servercost and most importantnly the cost for providing the bankroll of the site. I don't yet know how this part is handeled, so it could be that the NXT needed for this are provided for free by supernet or else.

Just-Dice maintains its bankroll from public investments. Since the neoDice shares are not being initially sold on the open market to raise capital, I would guess the house bankroll would be provided either by SuperNET or NXTVenture.

Possibly. But I can't imagine such an entity providing the funds for free, so they will charge a monthly fee (or something else).
I would imagine the working capital needed for this can be obtained via some asset sales. As the volumes go up, the price of the asset should go up, so I dont think there is a big issue here

The working capital needed for this is quite huge if you want to implement bankroll optimization rules. I am mainly referring to the kelly criterion.

Lets imagine you really do offer the 99000x payout option. Now if you want to offer a payout higher than 99000 NXT, lets say 500,000 or 1,000,000 max win, you will need to have a bankroll in the size of:
500,000/Houseedge --> 2% = 25,000,000 NXT , 1% = 50,000,000 NXT
1,000,000/Houseedge --> 2% = 50,000,000 NXT, 1% = 100,000,000 NXT

PS: 1,000,000/99000 = only a betsize of mearly 10 NXT!
are there any stats on the amount of bets at the various odds levels?
100000x odds seems quite extreme
what if only 100x are allowed?

100000x was the maximum allowed odds on just-dice.com (the most successful dice site in terms of number of bets).

I remeber that dooglus posted an analysis back when it was still running. The highest payouts were quite famous iirc!

I think the reason for this is the same reason people play the lottery. They like the longshots. They like to imagine what it would feel like to win the "jackpot" even if it is extremely unlikely!

100000k is pretty steep but maybe 10000x could be offered?
I would advise against any lottery odds at first, unless the amount was capped. It is quite unlikely, but I do not want an extremely unlikely event to wipe out the bankroll.

So, we should start with 100x and then gradually increase the top odds and max amounts as the bankroll grows
some actual stats on what odds got the 90% of bets would be extremely helpful, I doubt it was 100000x

James

As someone who has owned a (failed) dice site, I second this. One guy comes a long at the beginning and does what you thought was impossible, and then you're screwed.
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TwinWinNerD

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Oh you guys... :D

You really are in the need of a consultor.

Those high odds don't mean you will lose much of the bankroll if it hits, the maximum winnings will always be the same, when the Kelly criterion bankroll is used.


TwinWinNerD

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I could research what the actual odds distribution was, but that would take some good amount of time.

BTCDDev

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If we are looking for more games to implement, the dice game 骰子 (shaizi) is extremely popular across China and would most certainly bring in a large Chinese audience.

It's literally played in every bar across China every week  :)

The best part is, players would bet against each other and the house can take a fee so neoDice doesn't have to front any money.
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jl777

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Oh you guys... :D

You really are in the need of a consultor.

Those high odds don't mean you will lose much of the bankroll if it hits, the maximum winnings will always be the same, when the Kelly criterion bankroll is used.
who is this Kelly?
Is she cute?

it sounds like it is the bet limiting I suggested?
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jl777

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If we are looking for more games to implement, the dice game 骰子 (shaizi) is extremely popular across China and would most certainly bring in a large Chinese audience.

It's literally played in every bar across China every week  :)

The best part is, players would bet against each other and the house can take a fee so neoDice doesn't have to front any money.
the plan is to issue a different asset to encapsulate each different game. This way investors can bet on which game is going to make the most money.
with (hopefully) a dozen+ gaming assets, Privatebet will be the safe bet as it will be the one doing joint ventures with the devs making the game

Just need to get a provably fair random number generator in the SuperNET API

James
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TwinWinNerD

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Oh you guys... :D

You really are in the need of a consultor.

Those high odds don't mean you will lose much of the bankroll if it hits, the maximum winnings will always be the same, when the Kelly criterion bankroll is used.
who is this Kelly?
Is she cute?

it sounds like it is the bet limiting I suggested?

Kelly is a beautiful girl, I am sure!

The kelly criterion determines the optimal maximum win amount for any bankroll/houseedge combination. If the optimal KC is used, then the bankroll will do better than any essentially different strategy in the long run. Thus maximizing the returns for the investors, while limiting the downside potential.

jl777

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Oh you guys... :D

You really are in the need of a consultor.

Those high odds don't mean you will lose much of the bankroll if it hits, the maximum winnings will always be the same, when the Kelly criterion bankroll is used.
who is this Kelly?
Is she cute?

it sounds like it is the bet limiting I suggested?

Kelly is a beautiful girl, I am sure!

The kelly criterion determines the optimal maximum win amount for any bankroll/houseedge combination. If the optimal KC is used, then the bankroll will do better than any essentially different strategy in the long run. Thus maximizing the returns for the investors, while limiting the downside potential.
plz make sure hash gets all the intimate details on Kelly!
as investors we want the best ROI!!
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starfishi

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Oh you guys... :D

You really are in the need of a consultor.

Those high odds don't mean you will lose much of the bankroll if it hits, the maximum winnings will always be the same, when the Kelly criterion bankroll is used.
who is this Kelly?
Is she cute?

it sounds like it is the bet limiting I suggested?

Kelly is a beautiful girl, I am sure!

The kelly criterion determines the optimal maximum win amount for any bankroll/houseedge combination. If the optimal KC is used, then the bankroll will do better than any essentially different strategy in the long run. Thus maximizing the returns for the investors, while limiting the downside potential.
plz make sure hash gets all the intimate details on Kelly!
as investors we want the best ROI!!

ROFL  :)   I´m going to see my consultor . .


edit:  btw, my consultor says, i shouldn´t read this forum all the time, but . . , i can´t help it   :)






« Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 06:59:48 am by starfishi »
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jl777

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #91 on: October 01, 2014, 06:12:49 am »

[WARNING: DONT LOSE YOUR NEODICE DIVIDEND]

Anytime after 1400 GMT the NeoDICE dividend could be issued. PLEASE convert any TOKEN you have on NXT AE by sending it to NXT-7Y5B-J8LQ-SL5P-3ULFL (alias: RedeemTOKEN). Within 24 hours you will get the official SuperNET asset back. If have not redeemed TOKEN for SuperNET prior to 1400 GMT, your NeoDICE dividend will be forfeited and no complaints about this please.

50000 NeoDICE assets (id 18184274154437352348) will be dividended out to SuperNET asset holders at the rate of 0.06126992957634 NeoDICE per SuperNET asset.

that is 50000/816061

another way to look at this is that for every 16.32 SuperNET assets you have, you will get 1 NeoDICE asset. This is similar to how the NXTventure works, NXTventure will be doing 0.05 NeoDICE per NXTventure, or 1 NeoDICE asset for every 20 NXTventure

James
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #92 on: October 01, 2014, 06:16:21 am »

[WARNING: DONT LOSE YOUR NEODICE DIVIDEND]

Anytime after 1400 GMT the NeoDICE dividend could be issued. PLEASE convert any TOKEN you have on NXT AE by sending it to NXT-7Y5B-J8LQ-SL5P-3ULFL (alias: RedeemTOKEN). Within 24 hours you will get the official SuperNET asset back. If have not redeemed TOKEN for SuperNET prior to 1400 GMT, your NeoDICE dividend will be forfeited and no complaints about this please.

50000 NeoDICE assets (id 18184274154437352348) will be dividended out to SuperNET asset holders at the rate of 0.06126992957634 NeoDICE per SuperNET asset.

that is 50000/816061

another way to look at this is that for every 16.32 SuperNET assets you have, you will get 1 NeoDICE asset. This is similar to how the NXTventure works, NXTventure will be doing 0.05 NeoDICE per NXTventure, or 1 NeoDICE asset for every 20 NXTventure

James

What about SuperNET holders on Bter side?
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starfishi

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #93 on: October 01, 2014, 06:23:36 am »

[WARNING: DONT LOSE YOUR NEODICE DIVIDEND]

Anytime after 1400 GMT the NeoDICE dividend could be issued. PLEASE convert any TOKEN you have on NXT AE by sending it to NXT-7Y5B-J8LQ-SL5P-3ULFL (alias: RedeemTOKEN). Within 24 hours you will get the official SuperNET asset back. If have not redeemed TOKEN for SuperNET prior to 1400 GMT, your NeoDICE dividend will be forfeited and no complaints about this please.

50000 NeoDICE assets (id 18184274154437352348) will be dividended out to SuperNET asset holders at the rate of 0.06126992957634 NeoDICE per SuperNET asset.

that is 50000/816061

another way to look at this is that for every 16.32 SuperNET assets you have, you will get 1 NeoDICE asset. This is similar to how the NXTventure works, NXTventure will be doing 0.05 NeoDICE per NXTventure, or 1 NeoDICE asset for every 20 NXTventure

James

What about SuperNET holders on Bter side?

automatic. don`t worry.


« Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 09:44:52 am by starfishi »
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BTCDDev

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #94 on: October 01, 2014, 03:26:56 pm »

wow someone sold 84 NeoDICE for 6 NXT apiece. Wish I could have been the buyer!

I think the seller will regret it soon.
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valarmg

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #95 on: October 01, 2014, 03:33:29 pm »

[WARNING: DONT LOSE YOUR NEODICE DIVIDEND]

Anytime after 1400 GMT the NeoDICE dividend could be issued. PLEASE convert any TOKEN you have on NXT AE by sending it to NXT-7Y5B-J8LQ-SL5P-3ULFL (alias: RedeemTOKEN). Within 24 hours you will get the official SuperNET asset back. If have not redeemed TOKEN for SuperNET prior to 1400 GMT, your NeoDICE dividend will be forfeited and no complaints about this please.

50000 NeoDICE assets (id 18184274154437352348) will be dividended out to SuperNET asset holders at the rate of 0.06126992957634 NeoDICE per SuperNET asset.

that is 50000/816061

another way to look at this is that for every 16.32 SuperNET assets you have, you will get 1 NeoDICE asset. This is similar to how the NXTventure works, NXTventure will be doing 0.05 NeoDICE per NXTventure, or 1 NeoDICE asset for every 20 NXTventure

James

Dividend has been done on the AE side. https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/supernetwork-ipopoloniex/msg110876/#msg110876
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prometheus

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #96 on: October 01, 2014, 04:17:42 pm »

wow someone sold 84 NeoDICE for 6 NXT apiece. Wish I could have been the buyer!

I think the seller will regret it soon.

seems like all Venture dividends are settling at ~50-60 NXT. wish I would have had a bid up too!
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nacer

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #97 on: October 01, 2014, 04:32:18 pm »

50 NXt seem to be a lot for a starting project. -> 50 Million NXT market cap hum ....
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jeff jefferson

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #98 on: October 01, 2014, 04:38:52 pm »

so y are we getting neodice again? not that im complaining about free money :D

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prometheus

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #99 on: October 01, 2014, 05:27:14 pm »

so y are we getting neodice again? not that im complaining about free money :D

if you own supernet or NXTventure, you got/will get NEOdice as a dividend
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hash

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #101 on: October 02, 2014, 07:37:29 pm »

After a short negotiation, TwinWinNerD has joined the neoDICE team as a consultant.

TwinWinNerD is finishing the last semester of Master of Finance, specialising in RiskManagement, AssetManagement and Investments.
Furthermore, TwinWinNerD had played professional poker for 4 years and had been consulting several gaming operations.

Hurray!
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 08:10:19 pm by hash »
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apenzl

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #102 on: October 02, 2014, 07:44:04 pm »

TwinWinNerD

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #103 on: October 02, 2014, 07:46:49 pm »

To the moon, with the profits!

mynxtforum

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #104 on: October 03, 2014, 01:24:43 am »

neoDICE revives the instantaneous gaming experience of the legendary SatoshiDice and brings it to NXT platform.
To ensure the game's integrity the entire betting history is permanently stored on the NXT blockchain.
The Magic Number computation for each draw is mathematically verifiable.

Coming soon.

How are things coming along? What's the plan?
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m30188

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #105 on: October 03, 2014, 03:12:25 am »

After a short negotiation, TwinWinNerD has joined the neoDICE team as a consultant.

TwinWinNerD is finishing the last semester of Master of Finance, specialising in RiskManagement, AssetManagement and Investments.
Furthermore, TwinWinNerD had played professional poker for 4 years and had been consulting several gaming operations.

Hurray!
Cool!
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hash

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #106 on: October 03, 2014, 08:13:31 am »

How are things coming along? What's the plan?

We are on schedule. Expect the beta testing to start in a couple of weeks.

Thanks.

n3lz0n

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #107 on: October 03, 2014, 10:36:07 am »

awesome!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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notitguy

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #108 on: October 03, 2014, 11:58:13 pm »

Neodice website will only accept NXT deposit or any crypto?!
The website will need a chat and many other function that were in Just Dice. If you attract Just Dice Players, Neodice goes to the moon!
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eB101

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #109 on: October 08, 2014, 12:34:10 am »

As far as I can tell, only SuperNet and NxtVenture 's neodice assets have been distributed. How about the privatebet ones?
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_mr_e

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #110 on: October 08, 2014, 12:35:28 am »

As far as I can tell, only SuperNet and NxtVenture 's neodice assets have been distributed. How about the privatebet ones?

I believe Privatebet holds its received dividends.
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eB101

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #111 on: October 08, 2014, 01:10:36 am »

As far as I can tell, only SuperNet and NxtVenture 's neodice assets have been distributed. How about the privatebet ones?

I believe Privatebet holds its received dividends.

Ok thanks, I was thinking that could be the case, but since it's not mentioned/confirmed anywhere I wasn't sure. This is a bit confusing on which correlated asset owner holds and which distributes. I guess that's it then... 2 distributed (10% market), 3 owners hold (with at least 50% non-tradable / Privatebet + JLH).
- please correct if I'm wrong, otherwise I think it's just a 'good to know' :)
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jl777

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #112 on: October 08, 2014, 01:19:33 am »

As far as I can tell, only SuperNet and NxtVenture 's neodice assets have been distributed. How about the privatebet ones?

I believe Privatebet holds its received dividends.

Ok thanks, I was thinking that could be the case, but since it's not mentioned/confirmed anywhere I wasn't sure. This is a bit confusing on which correlated asset owner holds and which distributes. I guess that's it then... 2 distributed (10% market), 3 owners hold (with at least 50% non-tradable / Privatebet + JLH).
- please correct if I'm wrong, otherwise I think it's just a 'good to know' :)
Privatebet has no plans to distrbute NeoDICE. It is building a collection of gaming assets so the dividends from these assets will be aggregated and that will be sent to Privatebet assetholders
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eB101

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #113 on: October 08, 2014, 01:27:29 am »

As far as I can tell, only SuperNet and NxtVenture 's neodice assets have been distributed. How about the privatebet ones?

I believe Privatebet holds its received dividends.

Ok thanks, I was thinking that could be the case, but since it's not mentioned/confirmed anywhere I wasn't sure. This is a bit confusing on which correlated asset owner holds and which distributes. I guess that's it then... 2 distributed (10% market), 3 owners hold (with at least 50% non-tradable / Privatebet + JLH).
- please correct if I'm wrong, otherwise I think it's just a 'good to know' :)
Privatebet has no plans to distrbute NeoDICE. It is building a collection of gaming assets so the dividends from these assets will be aggregated and that will be sent to Privatebet assetholders

Thanks for the confirmation James
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blackyblack1

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #114 on: October 08, 2014, 05:13:45 am »

As far as I can tell, only SuperNet and NxtVenture 's neodice assets have been distributed. How about the privatebet ones?

I believe Privatebet holds its received dividends.

Ok thanks, I was thinking that could be the case, but since it's not mentioned/confirmed anywhere I wasn't sure. This is a bit confusing on which correlated asset owner holds and which distributes. I guess that's it then... 2 distributed (10% market), 3 owners hold (with at least 50% non-tradable / Privatebet + JLH).
- please correct if I'm wrong, otherwise I think it's just a 'good to know' :)
Privatebet has no plans to distrbute NeoDICE. It is building a collection of gaming assets so the dividends from these assets will be aggregated and that will be sent to Privatebet assetholders
But NeoDICE will be a part of the Privatebet?
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jl777

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #115 on: October 08, 2014, 05:32:20 am »

As far as I can tell, only SuperNet and NxtVenture 's neodice assets have been distributed. How about the privatebet ones?

I believe Privatebet holds its received dividends.

Ok thanks, I was thinking that could be the case, but since it's not mentioned/confirmed anywhere I wasn't sure. This is a bit confusing on which correlated asset owner holds and which distributes. I guess that's it then... 2 distributed (10% market), 3 owners hold (with at least 50% non-tradable / Privatebet + JLH).
- please correct if I'm wrong, otherwise I think it's just a 'good to know' :)
Privatebet has no plans to distrbute NeoDICE. It is building a collection of gaming assets so the dividends from these assets will be aggregated and that will be sent to Privatebet assetholders
But NeoDICE will be a part of the Privatebet?
Privatebet owns chunk of NeoDICE asset, so it is a financial link
NeoDICE to go into the SuperNET GUI
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Trinibits

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #116 on: October 21, 2014, 01:14:17 pm »

How are things coming along? What's the plan?

We are on schedule. Expect the beta testing to start in a couple of weeks.

Thanks.

Has it started? If so how's it going?
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BTCDDev

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #117 on: October 21, 2014, 01:17:31 pm »

How are things coming along? What's the plan?

We are on schedule. Expect the beta testing to start in a couple of weeks.

Thanks.

Has it started? If so how's it going?

I'm also curious to hear an update  :)
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KyLin

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #118 on: October 23, 2014, 01:37:39 am »

good news
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hash

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #119 on: October 23, 2014, 09:20:08 am »

We are testing internally. Will be ready for public beta in a few days.

Thanks.

Trinibits

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #120 on: October 23, 2014, 09:26:53 am »

Great news  :)
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KyLin

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #121 on: October 27, 2014, 12:40:43 am »

Good news
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salsacz

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Tosch110

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #123 on: October 31, 2014, 03:56:49 pm »

We are testing internally. Will be ready for public beta in a few days.

Thanks.

Anymore? looking forward =)

hash

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #124 on: October 31, 2014, 05:32:20 pm »

BTCDDev

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #125 on: November 10, 2014, 02:33:42 am »

Any update?
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hash

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #126 on: November 10, 2014, 04:31:26 pm »

Any update?

Fixing bugs, optimizing code, double checking all possible scenarios. You know how it is, always takes a bit longer than anticipated, but I’m optimistic.

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #127 on: November 14, 2014, 06:54:01 am »

Any update?

Fixing bugs, optimizing code, double checking all possible scenarios. You know how it is, always takes a bit longer than anticipated, but I’m optimistic.
It was mentioned on the latest supernet newsletter that the public testing was available in a few days.  When the public testing is available?
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komputor

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #128 on: November 16, 2014, 06:50:42 am »

Any update?

Fixing bugs, optimizing code, double checking all possible scenarios. You know how it is, always takes a bit longer than anticipated, but I’m optimistic.
It was mentioned on the latest supernet newsletter that the public testing was available in a few days.  When the public testing is available?

Bump..
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hash

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #129 on: November 16, 2014, 08:53:01 am »

It's nice to see so much interest!

The dice is almost there.
Tomorrow, hopefully, we'll release on testnet.

Thanks.

komputor

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #130 on: November 16, 2014, 11:09:37 am »

Thanks for the update!
Looking forward to checking it out  8)
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rdanneskjoldr

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #131 on: November 16, 2014, 02:18:42 pm »

Is there any research you can publish on how the bankroll management, rake and variance/risk will work?

Thank you.
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TwinWinNerD

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #132 on: November 16, 2014, 04:20:53 pm »

Is there any research you can publish on how the bankroll management, rake and variance/risk will work?

Thank you.

The bankrollmanagement will follow the (optimal?) kelly criterion with a houseedge of 1%. I will publish a more detailed answer soon(ish).

buybitcoinscanada

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #133 on: November 18, 2014, 10:35:22 pm »

a
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 09:56:58 pm by buybitcoinscanada »
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hash

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #134 on: November 22, 2014, 06:18:49 pm »

Any day now, right guys?  :P

Right, you can already try it on the Testnet.

It works in two steps:

- First you send test NXT to NXT-935J-7E79-966L-96AJ7 and receive back NeoChips (NDTC asset) on 1:1 ratio minus transaction fee.

- Second, you send (transfer) the chips to the same NXT-935J-7E79-966L-96AJ7 account, with a message specifying your chance to win. It should be a number from 1 to 98, representing the winning odds in percents.

If you win, you'll immediately get back a payout with details of the roll in an attached message. If you lose, you'll only get a message.

For now, on the Testnet, we disabled the option to convert chips back to test NXT (as we don't have enough of them, sorry :). This will change of course on the real chain.

I'll upload a page with detailed instructions shortly to http://neodice.com
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 06:26:19 pm by hash »
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BTCDDev

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #135 on: November 22, 2014, 07:30:57 pm »

Any day now, right guys?  :P

Right, you can already try it on the Testnet.

It works in two steps:

- First you send test NXT to NXT-935J-7E79-966L-96AJ7 and receive back NeoChips (NDTC asset) on 1:1 ratio minus transaction fee.

- Second, you send (transfer) the chips to the same NXT-935J-7E79-966L-96AJ7 account, with a message specifying your chance to win. It should be a number from 1 to 98, representing the winning odds in percents.

If you win, you'll immediately get back a payout with details of the roll in an attached message. If you lose, you'll only get a message.

For now, on the Testnet, we disabled the option to convert chips back to test NXT (as we don't have enough of them, sorry :). This will change of course on the real chain.

I'll upload a page with detailed instructions shortly to http://neodice.com

Nice  :)
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #136 on: November 22, 2014, 08:11:34 pm »

Just send a message?? No GUI??
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #137 on: November 22, 2014, 08:17:56 pm »

nice! thanks for the update @hash
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #138 on: November 22, 2014, 08:24:26 pm »

Just send a message?? No GUI??

The GUI will be part of the SuperNet client.

Yet, it will be optional: NeoDICE does not depend on any particular GUI or a website, it only depends on NXT blockchain.
It makes it very hard to shut down :)

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #139 on: November 22, 2014, 08:39:38 pm »

Just send a message?? No GUI??

The GUI will be part of the SuperNet client.

Yet, it will be optional: NeoDICE does not depend on any particular GUI or a website, it only depends on NXT blockchain.
It makes it very hard to shut down :)

Ok,nice. I said it because a nice GUI makes it fun for people to gamble. I cant imagine anyone coming to gamble by just sending a message :P
It also can show somewhere all the last plays or how the randomness is fair. By sending a message and getting something back, it feels more like the lottery can be tricked.
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #140 on: November 22, 2014, 08:44:48 pm »

Just send a message?? No GUI??

The GUI will be part of the SuperNet client.

Yet, it will be optional: NeoDICE does not depend on any particular GUI or a website, it only depends on NXT blockchain.
It makes it very hard to shut down :)

Ok,nice. I said it because a nice GUI makes it fun for people to gamble. I cant imagine anyone coming to gamble by just sending a message :P
It also can show somewhere all the last plays or how the randomness is fair. By sending a message and getting something back, it feels more like the lottery can be tricked.
now the core tech is in testing, a GUI that looks and feels like the satoshidice can be made
and integrated into SuperNET GUI
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hash

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #141 on: November 22, 2014, 08:47:20 pm »

Just send a message?? No GUI??

The GUI will be part of the SuperNet client.

Yet, it will be optional: NeoDICE does not depend on any particular GUI or a website, it only depends on NXT blockchain.
It makes it very hard to shut down :)

Ok,nice. I said it because a nice GUI makes it fun for people to gamble. I cant imagine anyone coming to gamble by just sending a message :P
It also can show somewhere all the last plays or how the randomness is fair. By sending a message and getting something back, it feels more like the lottery can be tricked.


Just send a message?? No GUI??

The GUI will be part of the SuperNet client.

Yet, it will be optional: NeoDICE does not depend on any particular GUI or a website, it only depends on NXT blockchain.
It makes it very hard to shut down :)

Ok,nice. I said it because a nice GUI makes it fun for people to gamble. I cant imagine anyone coming to gamble by just sending a message :P
It also can show somewhere all the last plays or how the randomness is fair. By sending a message and getting something back, it feels more like the lottery can be tricked.

Yes, absolutely, GUI is essential. The bets history and the tools to verify previous bets' fairness will be in both SuperNet client and on the website.

For now, all the bet details (lucky number, daily secret etc.) are included in the message that you receive with payout.

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #142 on: November 22, 2014, 08:47:57 pm »

So the GUI hasn't even been started yet? I thought release was imminent?
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #143 on: November 22, 2014, 08:53:31 pm »

So the GUI hasn't even been started yet? I thought release was imminent?

Release is imminent :)

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #144 on: November 23, 2014, 02:55:39 am »

Couple of typos:

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #146 on: November 23, 2014, 11:22:58 am »

Under “MORE INFO” → “REDEEMING NEOCHIPS” a sentence reads

Quote
This will change of course ones the game moved to the real chain and […]

Please change to

Quote
This will change of course once the game moves to the real chain and […]

or

Quote
This will change of course once the game has moved to the real chain and […]

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #147 on: November 23, 2014, 11:36:28 am »

Please change to

Quote
This will change of course once the game moves to the real chain and […]

Done. Thanks for your help.

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #148 on: December 02, 2014, 03:03:02 am »

Any news?  How long before you move from testNxt to the live chain?
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #149 on: December 07, 2014, 05:39:23 am »

Any news?  How long before you move from testNxt to the live chain?
Bump. Any updates?
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #150 on: December 07, 2014, 02:15:56 pm »

Any news?  How long before you move from testNxt to the live chain?
Bump. Any updates?

It's very easy to move to the Mainnet, however we're still not sure that all the critical bugs were caught and fixed.

I wish there were more players on the testnet, but I'm not complaining -- it's just that with less testers it takes longer to go through all the use cases.

The current plan is to make the switch by the end of the next week, starting with a small bankroll.

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #151 on: December 07, 2014, 02:49:52 pm »

Any news?  How long before you move from testNxt to the live chain?
Bump. Any updates?

It's very easy to move to the Mainnet, however we're still not sure that all the critical bugs were caught and fixed.

I wish there were more players on the testnet, but I'm not complaining -- it's just that with less testers it takes longer to go through all the use cases.

The current plan is to make the switch by the end of the next week, starting with a small bankroll.

Is it a closed testnet right now?  I'm sure there would be more people willing to test if you put the word out.
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hash

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #152 on: December 07, 2014, 03:09:45 pm »


Is it a closed testnet right now?  I'm sure there would be more people willing to test if you put the word out.

It's open to anyone. Here are the testing instructions again.

It works in two steps:

- First you send test NXT to NXT-935J-7E79-966L-96AJ7 and receive back NeoChips (NDTC asset) on 1:1 ratio minus transaction fee.

- Second, you send (transfer) the chips to the same NXT-935J-7E79-966L-96AJ7 account, with a message specifying your chance to win. It should be a number from 1 to 98, representing the winning odds in percents.

If you win, you'll immediately get back a payout with details of the roll in an attached message. If you lose, you'll only get a message.

More detailed instructions with screenshots are here: http://neodice.com

JamesList

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #153 on: December 31, 2014, 01:31:13 pm »

Still not possible to bet with real nxt? Where is the problem?
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #154 on: January 09, 2015, 05:05:38 pm »

what's up? how is testing going?
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #155 on: January 10, 2015, 07:31:32 pm »

Testing is progressing slowly on the Testnet. It looks like to get a significant number of testers we need to move to the Mainnet, which we're planning to do this week.

In the meantime we're coding a plugin for integration into SuperNET and drafting out a standalone android app.

Stay tuned
:)

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #156 on: January 10, 2015, 07:57:39 pm »

Mid. OctoberBeta testing starts
Beginning of November    Release of the game on the mainnet, playable via NXT client and SuperNET GUI
Mid. NovemberRelease of neoDICE plugin for NXT client and SuperNET GUI
Mid. DecemberRelease of the neoDICE website, allowing gameplay without NXT client

Nice to see I'm not the only one who misses deadlines  8)
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #157 on: January 10, 2015, 09:08:00 pm »

Nice to see I'm not the only one who misses deadlines  8)

Ha-ha :) 

You're right of course. Clearly we've been optimistically biased.

However, I feel that everything happens as it should. NeoDICE wouldn't have much utility without a strong and wide-spread NXT. Even if it was fully functional and polished today, it would only get a fraction of crypto gamblers. Hopefully (and we're counting on it) this year will be the year of NXT, and as NXT matures and gains wider adoption, there -- among multiple other projects -- will come NeoDICE. Just-in-time.

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #158 on: January 19, 2015, 01:00:49 am »

Nice to see I'm not the only one who misses deadlines  8)

Ha-ha :) 

You're right of course. Clearly we've been optimistically biased.

However, I feel that everything happens as it should. NeoDICE wouldn't have much utility without a strong and wide-spread NXT. Even if it was fully functional and polished today, it would only get a fraction of crypto gamblers. Hopefully (and we're counting on it) this year will be the year of NXT, and as NXT matures and gains wider adoption, there -- among multiple other projects -- will come NeoDICE. Just-in-time.

hey mate I think you are totally wrong!! Neodice can make nxt famous and you should realise this!
Gamblers come because of a great casino, not because they have money to play with!

For exemple, just dice re open last month, but to avoid to be too popular and to avoir managing millions of dollar of investors, dooglus (his creator) used "clams" a great shit coin! But he didn't realise that his casino/staff was so  great, that just after 1 month there is already 2.5million dollar invested! Today there is 5k$ traded of this shit coin. NXT is a great coin but no user, only 20k$!
Please bring the casino ASAP, friends and I are invested in neodice as we belive it's a really great opportunity for nxt, but we are still waiting! Deadlines are well over and we just think that the project is DEAD!
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #159 on: January 27, 2015, 02:59:24 am »

My betting TX ID: 17523622302044686486
and Yesterday's Secret:
440c0024b9aacf61d222c72c66474e85109e532836831bd55ca08ff372882cd8

HOW THE DICE ROLLS?

There are detailed instructions?
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #160 on: January 27, 2015, 03:51:09 am »

I think that it's just dead...
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #161 on: January 27, 2015, 02:11:28 pm »

My betting TX ID: 17523622302044686486
and Yesterday's Secret:
440c0024b9aacf61d222c72c66474e85109e532836831bd55ca08ff372882cd8

HOW THE DICE ROLLS?

There are detailed instructions?

Hi a7594li,

Thanks for trying out the system, you're one of the few who actually did it.

I see that your bet has won and you've received back 255.08 chips with a message:

Quote
---------------------------------------------------------
Lucky Number: 29
Your bet has WON!
---------------------------------------------------------
Bet size: 77.6
Attached message: 30
Chance to win: 30%
Gain ratio: 3.3
Payout: 255.08
Betting TX ID: 17523622302044686486


NeoDICE balance before transaction: 77.6 chips
NeoDICE balance after transaction: 255.08 chips

---------------------------------------------------------
* NXT transaction fee is deducted from the payout
* You win if the \"Lucky Number\" is less than the \"Chance to win\"
* More info at http://neodice.com

2015-1-25: Daily Secret's hash: 6abc599a6a069987019030becd4ead490b89ee9195ee25acf0b1cee1a6f90492
2015-1-24: Daily Secret: fc7aa736de1e677009c3a7d2a6053e7cf2c48532b1e82a01ff6bfa360a55bead

(Transaction #5967975652446432687 on testnet)



If I understand your question correctly, you ask how NeoDICE calculates the Lucky number.

The shortest answer: Lucky number is a decimal value of the first 64 bytes of SHA3 hash of daily secret combined with transaction ID.

The actual function looks like this:

Code: [Select]
function fortuna(odds, transactionId, currentSecret) {
    var d = new sha3.SHA3Hash(transactionId + currentSecret);
    var hex = d.hex().substring(0,63);
    var result = toInteger(hex).takeHundreds();
    if (result >= odds) {
        // win
    } else {
        // loose
    }
}   

Development status update: NeoDICE is already running on the Mainnet for a few days and it seems to be pretty stable. I'll post the game account number shortly.

Another piece of good news is that longzai1988, together with two other developers, integrated NeoDICE beta plugin into SuperNet client. It will be released after a few more GUI tweaks.
https://bitbucket.org/longzai1988/supernet/branch/neodice


Thanks. :)

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #162 on: January 27, 2015, 02:14:21 pm »

 :) Cool
Will look forward to seeing it in the wild.
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Tosch110

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #163 on: January 27, 2015, 03:46:15 pm »

Me too! Congrats for making it onto mainnet, I am looking forward to have a try!

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #164 on: January 29, 2015, 08:36:50 am »

Awesome!

As soon as its running on main and fully integrated into SN-Client I will give it a roll!  8)
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #165 on: February 09, 2015, 05:19:40 pm »

Is their any plan on how paying to shareholders will work?
I guess neodice wont have a huge bankroll to start with, and to pay dividends would be counterproductive. Its better to get the bankroll to increase, so it allows more and higher gambles for users, meaning a higher ROI for Neodice in the long term.

But some users will prefer to get short term dividends and others to increase the bankroll. So how will this be handled?


Dice investment comparison for bitcoin dice sites:
http://bitcoin-dice-guide.com/dice-investment-comparison/
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #166 on: February 19, 2015, 09:00:53 pm »

I'd like to suggest to reduce the footprint of messages sent with neodice transactions.  Example tx I just saw:

http://nxtportal.org/transactions/9708572412420155966

attachment:
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------- Lucky Number: 30 Your bet has WON! --------------------------------------------------------- Bet size: 3 Attached message: 50 Chance to win: 50% Gain ratio: 1.98 Payout: 4.94 Betting TX ID: 1472754719278422660 NeoDICE balance before transaction: 29.96277185 chips NeoDICE balance after transaction: 31.90277185 chips --------------------------------------------------------- * NXT transaction fee is deducted from the payout * You win if the "Lucky Number" is less than the "Chance to win" * More info at http://neodice.com 2015-2-19: Daily Secret's hash: 06c599eb4050ffb9b588ecc4c8588d65c9a8803add1b6cc48294f1286f527bd3 2015-2-18: Daily Secret: a56b309d6635347e47b4689520a5d1a533f3434999705caf3a5e58856d1dc54d


If neodice ever sees a large number of transactions like satoshi dice did, the messages might add a lot of wasted space in the blockchain.  Including all the "------" lines and repeating the description text for every dice roll tx seems unnecessary.  Just my opinion.
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #167 on: February 19, 2015, 09:04:34 pm »


Development status update: NeoDICE is already running on the Mainnet for a few days and it seems to be pretty stable. I'll post the game account number shortly.

What's the status on this? Would be interested to test drive it.
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #168 on: February 20, 2015, 12:50:33 am »


The shortest answer: Lucky number is a decimal value of the first 64 bytes of SHA3 hash of daily secret combined with transaction ID.

The actual function looks like this:

Code: [Select]
function fortuna(odds, transactionId, currentSecret) {
    var d = new sha3.SHA3Hash(transactionId + currentSecret);
    var hex = d.hex().substring(0,63);
    var result = toInteger(hex).takeHundreds();
    if (result >= odds) {
        // win
    } else {
        // loose
    }
}   

Did you mean the first 32-bytes?  A single hex digit is a nibble.
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rdanneskjoldr

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Any update? Is it possible to try it on main net sending to an ID, without GUI? I want to gamble ::)
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    • NFD Coin

The shortest answer: Lucky number is a decimal value of the first 64 bytes of SHA3 hash of daily secret combined with transaction ID.

The actual function looks like this:

Code: [Select]
function fortuna(odds, transactionId, currentSecret) {
    var d = new sha3.SHA3Hash(transactionId + currentSecret);
    var hex = d.hex().substring(0,63);
    var result = toInteger(hex).takeHundreds();
    if (result >= odds) {
        // win
    } else {
        // loose
    }
}   

Which transaction ID do you use? Last transaction ID in blockchain?

edit: Betting TX ID? Does that mean that the non predictable of fortuna only depends on the daily secret? Who controls the secret?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 01:39:01 am by MaWo »
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Phönix

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Is NeoDICE asleep?
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JamesList

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update? I will push this thread every day until i get an update.
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fishboiQ

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WTF is going on with neodice? 
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marechou

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http://neodice.com

NeoDICE is a fair betting game running on NXT blockchain. It relies upon an action-acquired know-how designed by Come-from-Beyond.

The neoDice gameplay is similar to that of the legendary satoshiDice, with a few differences, the most important one been the near realtime processing of the wagers.




FEATURES

- The game can be played via any NXT client supporting assets transfer and does not require any dedicated software or website.

- based on the Come-from-Beyond's know-how, neoDICE processes unconfirmed transactions, making the game nearly instantanious.

- To determine winning or losing bets, neoDICE calculates SHA-3 hash of a combination of the transaction ID and a daily secret -- a number unknown to  the player. The previous day's secret as well as the hash of the current day's secret is published, providing for an easy way to verify wagers outcomes.

- The entire betting history is stored on the NXT blockchain ensuring the game's integrity and fairness.

- NeoDICE is as anonymous as players's NXT account number. It does not require any additional registration or authentication.

- NeoDICE is scheduled to become a part of the SuperNET reference client, ensuring the exposure to the wider-than-NXT crypto audience.

- NeoDICE house edge will be optimized to maximize dividends and is expected to start at 0.99%.
 



DEVELOPMENT STATUS:

NeoDICE is being actively coded by several developers represented by hash. jl777 and C-f-B are the project consultants.

Currently the neoDICE project successfully completed the proof of concept stage.

The upcoming milestones and tentative timeline:

Mid. OctoberBeta testing starts
Beginning of November    Release of the game on the mainnet, playable via NXT client and SuperNET GUI
Mid. NovemberRelease of neoDICE plugin for NXT client and SuperNET GUI
Mid. DecemberRelease of the neoDICE website, allowing gameplay without NXT client




NeoDICE ASSET:

100% of revenues will be distributed to assetholders. This was based on my advice and the fact that the developers and maintainers will HODL sizable NeoDICE means the low operating overhead from decentralized architecture will be able to be covered from the dividends. This method perfectly aligns the interests of asset buyers and the developers and removes any issues about what the overhead costs will be.

Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH


According to the OP, it should have been ready in 3 months, now it's almost 8 months old and no still no new ETA ???????
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_mr_e

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This lack of communication is complete bullshit! For shame!
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Phönix

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Mid. OctoberBeta testing starts
Beginning of November    Release of the game on the mainnet, playable via NXT client and SuperNET GUI
Mid. NovemberRelease of neoDICE plugin for NXT client and SuperNET GUI
Mid. DecemberRelease of the neoDICE website, allowing gameplay without NXT client


2014 or probably in 2025?

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hash

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Hello everyone,

Your impatience is understandable and, in a way, flattering.

We did not publish updates because there was not much to report. Seemingly, the status of the project remained the same old "we're fixing bugs and running tests". In actual practice a huge amount of work has been done. We came across many hidden reefs, mostly related to the near-real-time nature of the game. For example, because of micro forks (of 2-3 blocks) the code architecture and the backend DB had to be changed at a very advanced stage. We simply did not know about this kind of forks, and it turned out they occur every few minutes on every node.

It is clear that we're behind the the tentative schedule initially published in this thread. That's a fact. Another, often overlooked fact is that we develop this project for free. The ND shares that are currently on the market were distributed for free to SuperNet owners. We (founders and developers) have not sell a single share and received no other funding. I know it sounds like an excuse, but it is in fact an explanation. And a reminder. The disadvantage of such situation is, admittedly, the pace of development. The benefit is that we don't owe anything to anyone, don't depend on funds running out, investors, NXT price, etc.

Having said that, I'm sorry some people feel frustrated by the lack of communication. From now on updates will be published at least once a week.

Now to the actual update:

Core engine:
- All "minor" and up bugs are resolved.
- There are 12 "tweaks" and down issues that remain.

Supernet plugin:
- There're 25 unresolved issues of various severity. No blocks or crashes.

Android and iOS standalone clients:
- Beta versions are ready and waiting for QA.

Thank you for your patience.

_mr_e

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Hello everyone,

Your impatience is understandable and, in a way, flattering.

We did not publish updates because there was not much to report. Seemingly, the status of the project remained the same old "we're fixing bugs and running tests". In actual practice a huge amount of work has been done. We came across many hidden reefs, mostly related to the near-real-time nature of the game. For example, because of micro forks (of 2-3 blocks) the code architecture and the backend DB had to be changed at a very advanced stage. We simply did not know about this kind of forks, and it turned out they occur every few minutes on every node.

It is clear that we're behind the the tentative schedule initially published in this thread. That's a fact. Another, often overlooked fact is that we develop this project for free. The ND shares that are currently on the market were distributed for free to SuperNet owners. We (founders and developers) have not sell a single share and received no other funding. I know it sounds like an excuse, but it is in fact an explanation. And a reminder. The disadvantage of such situation is, admittedly, the pace of development. The benefit is that we don't owe anything to anyone, don't depend on funds running out, investors, NXT price, etc.

Having said that, I'm sorry some people feel frustrated by the lack of communication. From now on updates will be published at least once a week.

Now to the actual update:

Core engine:
- All "minor" and up bugs are resolved.
- There are 12 "tweaks" and down issues that remain.

Supernet plugin:
- There're 25 unresolved issues of various severity. No blocks or crashes.

Android and iOS standalone clients:
- Beta versions are ready and waiting for QA.

Thank you for your patience.
So is the "instant" and decentralized nature of the game still going to be possible or have you run into issues that are going to neuter the original ethos of the game?

You aren't really doing this for free considering the immense profit potential if you were to finish. Makes me seriously wonder why it doesn't seem like a top priority.
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hash

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So is the "instant" and decentralized nature of the game still going to be possible or have you run into issues that are going to neuter the original ethos of the game?

You aren't really doing this for free considering the immense profit potential if you were to finish. Makes me seriously wonder why it doesn't seem like a top priority.

It is as instant as network allows, usually a few seconds. That means tens of bets can be won and lost within a single block. It leads to double accounting -- NeoDICE core must know player's in-game balance long before it becomes known to NXT client. It creates many non-trivial problems, especially before Economic Clusters have emerged. But so far the issues we've run into were solvable.

You are right, we're not altruists and hope to profit in the end, but for now the day jobs is what keeps us afloat, while taking a lot of time and energy.  :-\


hash

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We're ready to accept bets on the main net. You can try it out in a standard NXT client.
It's still in beta, hence the bankroll is set low, to 20K NXT.

Instructions in short:

1. Get the chips:
Send any amount of NXT to NXT-ALEF-Q23Z-UYBB-6PLAY and get back NeoDICE chips (NDchips asset) based on 1:1 ratio.

2. Play:
Send/transfer NeoDICE chips to NXT-ALEF-Q23Z-UYBB-6PLAY with unencrypted message stating your chance to win from 1 to 98, for example 50 for 50% chance.

NeoDICE calculates the Lucky Number for the bet and sends back the won chips (or a message if the bet loses).

3. Cash out (redeem) NeoDICE chips: 
Send NeoDICE chips to the same NXT-ALEF-Q23Z-UYBB-6PLAY address without any message. After the last chips receiving transaction gets 720 confirmations the NXT is sent to your account.

The detailed instructions are here http://neodice.com/

Note that every step in the game is a transaction, therefore a transaction fee of 1 NXT goes to the network on every bet or chip swap.

Please play, test, try to break it. PM me or doppelganger with the bugs or problems (same users on SN slack).

The development status update will be posted shortly by doppelganger.

BTCDDev

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We're ready to accept bets on the main net.

Nice! Will be trying out for sure.
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doppelganger

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Hello everyone,

Recently we were very busy stabilising the core engine and making it more fault tolerant. Our primary goal was to provide correct recovery after network failures and mini-forks mitigation. We believe major bugs are sorted out, so we decided to initiate testing on the main chain (since testnet wasn’t that fruitful in this regard).

It took us longer than we thought, but as Hash already mentioned, we had to change core architecture of the project, for example switch from NoSQL to relational database. (I have to say this approach has brought us substantial wins.) 

Next development target after core system is a Supernet plugin, to simplify game experience. We have there mostly UI minor bugs, no majors, no blockers.   

Please let me know if you need any more specific data or metrics, I’ll try to elaborate as much as possible. 
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3. Cash out (redeem) NeoDICE chips: 
Send NeoDICE chips to the same NXT-ALEF-Q23Z-UYBB-6PLAY address without any message. After the last chips receiving transaction gets 720 confirmations the NXT is sent to your account.

720 confirm? o,no. ::)
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_mr_e

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3. Cash out (redeem) NeoDICE chips: 
Send NeoDICE chips to the same NXT-ALEF-Q23Z-UYBB-6PLAY address without any message. After the last chips receiving transaction gets 720 confirmations the NXT is sent to your account.

720 confirm? o,no. ::)

ugh... looks like nxtbubble has long stolen the show here.
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msin

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Any plans to make this Browser based?  I just don't seem a lot of people playing this in-client
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lopalcar

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tx: 15160924160108529386

Tested it with a few nxts, more than 1k confirmations and still no payment received
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doppelganger

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Any plans to make this Browser based?  I just don't seem a lot of people playing this in-client

Sure. We're discussing several options at the moment.
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doppelganger

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tx: 15160924160108529386

Tested it with a few nxts, more than 1k confirmations and still no payment received

I've sent you a IM, please check inbox.
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yassin54

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hi hash
neodice is difficult for Joe, no attractive
there not website or plugin?
nxtbubble is more better, This is much faster deposit,bet and withdraw

lopalcar

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Answered the PM  :)

@yassin54: I suppose this is a very early version just for testing, make a nice UI in a plugin should be easy, but the 720 confirmations must be improved at least for small-medium bets, if we talk about millions nxt, I would also feel more confortable with 720 confirmations hehe

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I remember that neodice is real time game as CFB Know how said,right?
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hash

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I suppose this is a very early version just for testing, make a nice UI in a plugin should be easy, but the 720 confirmations must be improved at least for small-medium bets, if we talk about millions nxt, I would also feel more confortable with 720 confirmations hehe

I remember that neodice is real time game as CFB Know how said,right?

The game itself is real time. It works without confirmations, right within the unconfirmed pool. 720 confirmations only required when you're done playing and want to withdraw the Neodice chips.

lopalcar

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I suppose this is a very early version just for testing, make a nice UI in a plugin should be easy, but the 720 confirmations must be improved at least for small-medium bets, if we talk about millions nxt, I would also feel more confortable with 720 confirmations hehe

I remember that neodice is real time game as CFB Know how said,right?

The game itself is real time. It works without confirmations, right within the unconfirmed pool. 720 confirmations only required when you're done playing and want to withdraw the Neodice chips.

I know, but maybe would be good reduce the 720 confirmations if someone want to redeem their chips for real nxts  faster for use them somewhere else?
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Cassius

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I ordered a few chips and waited and waited for them to come in. Turns out, the transaction was listed before my outgoing transaction to pay for them! Impressively fast...

EDIT:
I've had a bit of a play with it. Not a gambler myself but very impressed at the tech behind it. The instant transactions must have a lot of other applications. Is it possible to plug that tech into other apps?
With a proper UI it will rock. Well done, guys.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 09:13:07 am by Cassius »
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yassin54

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jeezy

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The instant transactions must have a lot of other applications. Is it possible to plug that tech into other apps?
With a proper UI it will rock. Well done, guys.

I'm also interested in this. Is there a whitepaper about the tech somewhere?
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yassin54

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Wooow VERY fast

Lucky Number: 64
Your bet has WON!
---------------------------------------------------------
Bet size: 9
Attached message: 70
Chance to win: 70%
Gain ratio: 1.41
Payout: 11.72857143
Betting TX ID: ****************

NeoDICE balance before transaction: 9 chips
NeoDICE balance after transaction: 11.72857143 chips

just question
where i can sell my Ndchips?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 09:52:41 am by yassin54 »
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lopalcar

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Wooow VERY fast

Lucky Number: 64
Your bet has WON!
---------------------------------------------------------
Bet size: 9
Attached message: 70
Chance to win: 70%
Gain ratio: 1.41
Payout: 11.72857143
Betting TX ID: ****************

NeoDICE balance before transaction: 9 chips
NeoDICE balance after transaction: 11.72857143 chips

just question
where i can sell my Ndchips?

You can't sell or trade them, if you read the asset description, you can see they will become invalid, the only way to redeem them for nxt is send the chips to the NeoDice account withouth any message attached and after 720 confirmations you get the same number -1 of nxt

PD: I'm still waiting for my redeem, seems there was a bug calculating the balance, maybe wait till some dev confirm it's solved
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yassin54

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Wooow VERY fast

Lucky Number: 64
Your bet has WON!
---------------------------------------------------------
Bet size: 9
Attached message: 70
Chance to win: 70%
Gain ratio: 1.41
Payout: 11.72857143
Betting TX ID: ****************

NeoDICE balance before transaction: 9 chips
NeoDICE balance after transaction: 11.72857143 chips

just question
where i can sell my Ndchips?

You can't sell or trade them, if you read the asset description, you can see they will become invalid, the only way to redeem them for nxt is send the chips to the NeoDice account withouth any message attached and after 720 confirmations you get the same number -1 of nxt

PD: I'm still waiting for my redeem, seems there was a bug calculating the balance, maybe wait till some dev confirm it's solved
thanks for reply man !  :)

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Nice to see some progress on NeoDICE!
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NXT-GMFM-NZWG-TCTU-4W6ZT

doppelganger

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tx: 15160924160108529386

Tested it with a few nxts, more than 1k confirmations and still no payment received

Bug is fixed, you should get your earned NXT about now. Thanks for testing!
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doppelganger

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The instant transactions must have a lot of other applications. Is it possible to plug that tech into other apps?
With a proper UI it will rock. Well done, guys.

I'm also interested in this. Is there a whitepaper about the tech somewhere?

Working on it. Which topics you'd like to see there?
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yassin54

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Won again  ;D ;D

Lucky Number: 25
Your bet has WON!
---------------------------------------------------------
Bet size: 100
Attached message: 50
Chance to win: 50%
Gain ratio: 1.98
Payout: 197
Betting TX ID: ********************

NeoDICE balance before transaction: 110.72857143 chips
NeoDICE balance after transaction: 207.72857143 chips

just a little problem is a fees 1Nxt
all work the thunder  :P :P
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 10:21:27 am by yassin54 »
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yassin54

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i think plugin NeoDice help more!  ;)

lopalcar

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I finally received the redeem, but with a little issue, I sent 46.51701807 chips and received 45nxt instead 45.517, it's expected to work only with int numbers?
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jl777

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I think during the testing period the withdraw times are intentionally set to be very long, but as it gets more and more tested the numconfirms will have to be reduced from 720 blocks.

However, there is an easy solution to the redeem time!

We can just put a buywall for fast cashout, so that people who want to convert to NXT right way can just do it from AE.

James
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yassin54

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We can just put a buywall for fast cashout, so that people who want to convert to NXT right way can just do it from AE.

James
good idea!  :)

doppelganger

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I finally received the redeem, but with a little issue, I sent 46.51701807 chips and received 45nxt instead 45.517, it's expected to work only with int numbers?

It is a known limitation, but its on the list of top bugs to fix, so soon will be resolved.
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lopalcar

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I finally received the redeem, but with a little issue, I sent 46.51701807 chips and received 45nxt instead 45.517, it's expected to work only with int numbers?

It is a known limitation, but its on the list of top bugs to fix, so soon will be resolved.

ok, good to know ;)

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yassin54

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Lucky Number: 5
Your bet has WON!
---------------------------------------------------------
Bet size: 100
Attached message: 50
Chance to win: 50%
Gain ratio: 1.98
Payout: 197
Betting TX ID: *********************

NeoDICE balance before transaction: 253.72857143 chips
NeoDICE balance after transaction: 350.72857143 chips

i love  :-*

yassin54

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I do not receive any messages when I win when I lose received just

Hébergé par Imagesia.com

jl777

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I put up a buywall on AE so to redeem, just sell into the buywall.

no need to wait

James

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hash

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I do not receive any messages when I win when I lose received just

Hébergé par Imagesia.com

When a bet wins the message is attached to the transaction, i.e. the message is embedded into the asset transfer transaction.

When a bet looses you only get a message - that's a correct behaviour.

Thanks.

yassin54

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I do not receive any messages when I win when I lose received just

Hébergé par Imagesia.com

When a bet wins the message is attached to the transaction, i.e. the message is embedded into the asset transfer transaction.

When a bet looses you only get a message - that's a correct behaviour.

Thanks.
thanks for reply  :)

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Hi, we've just reduced confirmation amount required for cash-out from 720 to 10. We're going to monitor this and if this change won't affect stability of the system, we'll make this change permanent.
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yhomega

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Hey guys, have a look to other casino (just dice, bitdice, primedice....) And you will see that most of the bets are really small amount, but it makes a great community and an active chat. Then a great community attrack big players, it's a snowball effect!. But with 1nxt for one bet, I think it gives very little chance for neodice to suceed! No martingale, and other crazy tech to try. I hope I'm wrong!
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boomabc

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hi send 50 nxt unfortunately with encrypted message. could someone please return them? THX Transaction 16603676748799644714 
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hi send 50 nxt unfortunately with encrypted message. could someone please return them? THX Transaction 16603676748799644714

Hello! Thanks for testing, your bet was converted to NXT (tx 15898038819929536179). And thanks for finding a bug, it should've been returned instead of converting. We'll compensate in a couple of days, when compensation mechanism will be released. 
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Cassius

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What are your plans/timeline for GUI? Can we expect to see this in the SuperNET client soon?
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hash

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Hey guys, have a look to other casino (just dice, bitdice, primedice....) And you will see that most of the bets are really small amount, but it makes a great community and an active chat. Then a great community attrack big players, it's a snowball effect!. But with 1nxt for one bet, I think it gives very little chance for neodice to suceed! No martingale, and other crazy tech to try. I hope I'm wrong!

He, he... It's 2 NXT in fact -- one for а bet and another one for the payout.
That's the price to pay for inclusion into the blockchain. Тhe price of decentralisation and a permanent record of fairness. And it's only 2 cents. And they go straight to NXT forgers.

I too hope you're wrong :)

hash

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What are your plans/timeline for GUI? Can we expect to see this in the SuperNET client soon?

Yes, this week. It still has quite a few UI problems, but it's good enough for testing. And much easier to play than in the client.

Cassius

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What are your plans/timeline for GUI? Can we expect to see this in the SuperNET client soon?

Yes, this week. It still has quite a few UI problems, but it's good enough for testing. And much easier to play than in the client.

That is pretty cool. Would love to review it. Will it be a plug-in or come bundled with a new SN release?
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hash

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That is pretty cool. Would love to review it. Will it be a plug-in or come bundled with a new SN release?

Thanks.
I think it'll be bundled. Up to longzai.

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Hi,

Nice and interesting tech. I'm wonderering if you could not build interesting game on top of this techonology. For example, fair-provable slot machine, roulette, etc....

I think the hash conversion could be map onto more complicated problem than multifacet dice throw. All you need for these applications is a random number generator. I mean you could generate many random number at each Nxt block and use these to advance in time the game chain of events onto which a bet has been initially made.

Maybe this is not possible, but do have you some ideas of this kind for the future?

Im sure that it would be great for asset holder to extend neodice possibility.

Im following the topic.
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jl777

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Hi,

Nice and interesting tech. I'm wonderering if you could not build interesting game on top of this techonology. For example, fair-provable slot machine, roulette, etc....

I think the hash conversion could be map onto more complicated problem than multifacet dice throw. All you need for these applications is a random number generator. I mean you could generate many random number at each Nxt block and use these to advance in time the game chain of events onto which a bet has been initially made.

Maybe this is not possible, but do have you some ideas of this kind for the future?

Im sure that it would be great for asset holder to extend neodice possibility.

Im following the topic.
It will be possible for neoDICE to publish a random number service that other games could subscribe to
using the SuperNET agents system
still working out the framework, but ramchains, MGW, InstantDEX are all using this framework so soon it will be ready to be expanded to other services
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I am just a simple C programmer

Sebastien256

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Does Neodice has expansion plan beside the proposed under devellopment dice game?
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Abraxas 147

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I played some rounds in SuperNET v1.5.9.1 client today. The new GUI looks really cool and the game is fun!

Disclaimer: I won 38 NXT so my judgement may be biased ;-).

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I played some rounds in SuperNET v1.5.9.1 client today. The new GUI looks really cool and the game is fun!

Disclaimer: I won 38 NXT so my judgement may be biased ;-).
Yeah, he is very cool  :P :P
Great Work!  ;)

twitted https://twitter.com/MagicNxt/status/605794015162724352

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Hello,

so the biggest news is Neodice plugin is released with the recent Supernet version (1.5.9.1). Please check it out, test it and send your feedback.
Also we improved performance by moving away from getAccountTransactons API call which was a huge bottleneck in our flow.
Couple of minor bugs were fixed as well.

Stay tuned, you'll see more improvements and features quite soon. 
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It's very neat and I love the tech, but I wondered whether you had considered a more 'traditional' dice GUI? Perhaps like Yahtzee, with 5 dice, or even 2 dice with a little animation for the throw? It's slightly odd just picking a random number. It could be dicier.
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hash

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It's very neat and I love the tech, but I wondered whether you had considered a more 'traditional' dice GUI? Perhaps like Yahtzee, with 5 dice, or even 2 dice with a little animation for the throw? It's slightly odd just picking a random number. It could be dicier.

Thanks! Yes, we'll have to gamify it -- right now it's a "skeleton" to test out the tech. Please do share any gamification ideas :)

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has fallen asleep the neodice?
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #233 on: August 14, 2015, 11:12:35 am »

Hey, any news? )
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coinomat

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #234 on: September 19, 2015, 04:58:01 pm »

Guys I hope you did not abandon this, very cool project
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yassin54

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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #235 on: September 19, 2015, 05:53:21 pm »

Guys I hope you did not abandon this, very cool project
Me too!  :D
just need good interface as satoshidice or more better !  ;D
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 06:04:23 pm by yassin54 »
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Re: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z
« Reply #236 on: November 08, 2015, 11:53:10 am »

Yes, new interface is one of the things we're working on. Right now everyone's welcome to play via Supernet plugin. Please ping us on Slack with any questions or suggestions.


Guys I hope you did not abandon this, very cool project
Me too!  :D
just need good interface as satoshidice or more better !  ;D
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Is this project still alive? The domain doesn't even seem to resolve anymore.

hash

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The domain resolves:
http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/neodice.com

The project is temporary on hold after the v1.7.4 release. The fees for referenced transaction had been doubled and it became too expensive to play.

Hopefully, after NRS 2.0 is out, we'd be able to port the game to a childchain and reduce or eliminate the fees.

Thanks.


Is this project still alive? The domain doesn't even seem to resolve anymore.

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The domain resolves:
http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/neodice.com

Ah, there seems to be some issue with DNSSEC so that my local resolver refuses to give any answers for the domain.

Hopefully, after NRS 2.0 is out, we'd be able to port the game to a childchain and reduce or eliminate the fees.

Will the project start paying dividends on its assets at that time?

Cheers.

hash

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Ah, there seems to be some issue with DNSSEC so that my local resolver refuses to give any answers for the domain.

Thanks for pointing it out, I'll try to fix it.

Will the project start paying dividends on its assets at that time?

The project dividends come from its revenues. So far there was no revenue, the Bankroll balance is negative, precisely -3,532 NXT.

If and when NeoDICE starts bringing revenue, the dividends will be happily payed.

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Thanks.

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Thanks for updated!!  8)

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I asked at the Slack: What´s the current status from Pangea, InstantDEX and NeoDice? Could someone bring me up to date? thanks in advance


Answer from James:

neodice has been working for a while as far as I know, just not many are using it

I am working on DEX as we speak as an instance of virtual chains built into the basilisk protocol. Pangea will be done after I make a few other reference dapps using iguana tech as pangea requires custom statemachines (almost as much flexibility as turing complete)

alpha version of virtual chains is working to some degree, but not yet able to cross bundle boundaries. once it does, it will have nearly all functionality needed for assetchains and that would allow option of migrating a smaller asset to its own assetchain to make sure it works properly before migrating the bigger assets
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