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Author Topic: [ANN] NeoDICE - asset 18184274154437352348 issuer NXT-XRK4-5HYK-5965-9FH4Z  (Read 26998 times)

TwinWinNerD

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The most often used odds on just-dice included:
50%
49.5% (because of 1% house edge)
33% (because of 3x Payout)
66% (because of 1.5x payout)
98% and 97% because people like to bet on outcomes that are very very liekly, even though the house edge eats nearly all the potential winnings

I would include one or two extremely unlikely cases, like the 64000x payout on satoshi. 99999x was the highest payout on JD.

msin

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Great to see this in development and I'm glad that James and Hash were able to team up.  I would also like to see the "know how" made public after NeoDice has been launched, as I think it could be used for a number of really interesting projects.  Great work on this!

jl777

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It seems that JL777 sent tips to the translators from the shares owned by PrivateBet. The translation should be the developers & maintainers' work, so personally I think it should be covered by the shares owned by the developers & maintainers (45%).


Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH


P.S. I just updated the translation for the phrase "know-how": https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=5624.msg108736#msg108736
It is my assessment that the more vested people we have who are active, especially in China, the better for Privatebet. I believe my judgement on such matters has been fairly good so far. Privatebet needs promotion and I have allocated 1% toward this. do you feel 1% toward promotion is too much?

James
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jl777

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Great to see this in development and I'm glad that James and Hash were able to team up.  I would also like to see the "know how" made public after NeoDice has been launched, as I think it could be used for a number of really interesting projects.  Great work on this!
I plan to generalize to create provable random distributions so it can be used for any game of chance. This will become part of SuperNET API

James
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jl777

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I think the % taken for the house should be studied further, as it will be key in NeoDice acceptance by users. I find the 2% too high. If for example just-dice has a 1% fee, maybe people will still gamble there even if Neodice service is better.

In gambling it seems you get more money the higher the rake is, but i dont see it that way, as the result is often the same after a big sample of plays from the user perspective: 100% of the money  lost. People use to think they just got unlucky on the last play, but it is just their EV ( equity value) materializing.

The only difference is that the longer the user plays, the experience will be more grateful, and the feeling of almost succeeding to win is bigger. More minutes of fun too, so they will be tempted to gamble more in the future. If you take all their money in 5 minutes, there isnt any satisfaction for the user.


This is a simulation of 100 plays with the EV of betting your whole stake starting with 1000 units.



It may seem you win more money the higher the rake is, but with a big enough sample, this is what i meant with the final result is always the same. Graph of 500 plays :



You are taking all the money anyway, but you give the user a bigger number of plays = more time of fun = closer feeling of almost winning
In a business where you have operational costs for that, you have to balance it, but here i dont think having a user making 100 more plays has any cost for NeoDice.

That is why i think it is a good idea to lower the rake to at least 1%. I would do it even lower, but then you also have to calculate the possibility of starting with a bad streak as the house and having to pay too much money for users. As the lower the edge for NeoDice is , the bigger chance of this happening. But in the long term with very big volume, this is no problem.


Is there a chance asset holders could vote on this? If the accounts with a huge % find what asset holders voted reasonable they can follow it. If it isnt so close they can always decide as developers still weight for 45%+ of the asset.
There is no need for voting if the 2% is not optimal. Everybody's interests are aligned, so if 1% is optimum, then it shall be 1%. If 0.1% is optimum, then it shall be 0.1%

We look for feedback on the best fee structure and maybe this can be experimented with to see how it does, eg. start with the lower fees and then gradually increase it until we see a measurable dropoff

James

P.S. we need need to have the NXT tx fee covered, so for small bets the percentages will be distorted.
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jl777

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How is the bankroll of neoDICE composed?

What kelly-criterion is used for Bankrollmanagement?

Are the users able to invest?
It sounds like you want to be actively involved in NeoDICE.
this is great!
PM me your suggestions
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TwinWinNerD

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How is the bankroll of neoDICE composed?

What kelly-criterion is used for Bankrollmanagement?

Are the users able to invest?
It sounds like you want to be actively involved in NeoDICE.
this is great!
PM me your suggestions

Hash contacted me already per PM and he said he will get in touch with me within 1 week.

BTCDDev

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Sorry if I missed it somewhere,

when will the neoDice assets be distributed to assetholders?

Matthew

TwinWinNerD

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Sorry if I missed it somewhere,

when will the neoDice assets be distributed to assetholders?

Matthew

around tuesday probably.

Jimmy2011

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It seems that JL777 sent tips to the translators from the shares owned by PrivateBet. The translation should be the developers & maintainers' work, so personally I think it should be covered by the shares owned by the developers & maintainers (45%).


Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH


P.S. I just updated the translation for the phrase "know-how": https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=5624.msg108736#msg108736
It is my assessment that the more vested people we have who are active, especially in China, the better for Privatebet. I believe my judgement on such matters has been fairly good so far. Privatebet needs promotion and I have allocated 1% toward this. do you feel 1% toward promotion is too much?

James

Sorry, I can't see how that tips were directly related to Privatebet promotion? The readers of the translation most probably just know what's neoDice. If you think the reader can find PrivateBet through neoDice, they may also learn about nxtventure, jlh and all others(*ad).

It's just my personal view based on the public information that 777 * 2 = 1554 neoDice shares were covered by Privatebet. It's OK, James, it's your asset and it's up to your decision.


NXT-LX5G-L63N-ST8S-9LVZY

jl777

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It seems that JL777 sent tips to the translators from the shares owned by PrivateBet. The translation should be the developers & maintainers' work, so personally I think it should be covered by the shares owned by the developers & maintainers (45%).


Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH


P.S. I just updated the translation for the phrase "know-how": https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=5624.msg108736#msg108736
It is my assessment that the more vested people we have who are active, especially in China, the better for Privatebet. I believe my judgement on such matters has been fairly good so far. Privatebet needs promotion and I have allocated 1% toward this. do you feel 1% toward promotion is too much?

James

Sorry, I can't see how that tips were directly related to Privatebet promotion? The readers of the translation most probably just know what's neoDice. If you think the reader can find PrivateBet through neoDice, they may also learn about nxtventure, jlh and all others(*ad).

It's just my personal view based on the public information that 777 * 2 = 1554 neoDice shares were covered by Privatebet. It's OK, James, it's your asset and it's up to your decision.
Thanks.
I have found that when somebody owns a specific asset, then they tend to start thinking of ways to make that asset worth more.

Like sending NXT to someone, they might start finding out about all the other cryptos but since they actually have the NXT, they tend to start helping the NXT

James
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I am just a simple C programmer

FunBot

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Thanks.
I have found that when somebody owns a specific asset, then they tend to start thinking of ways to make that asset worth more.

Like sending NXT to someone, they might start finding out about all the other cryptos but since they actually have the NXT, they tend to start helping the NXT

James

This is a good way of thinking about it.

Jimmy2011

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It seems that JL777 sent tips to the translators from the shares owned by PrivateBet. The translation should be the developers & maintainers' work, so personally I think it should be covered by the shares owned by the developers & maintainers (45%).


Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH


P.S. I just updated the translation for the phrase "know-how": https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=5624.msg108736#msg108736
It is my assessment that the more vested people we have who are active, especially in China, the better for Privatebet. I believe my judgement on such matters has been fairly good so far. Privatebet needs promotion and I have allocated 1% toward this. do you feel 1% toward promotion is too much?

James

Sorry, I can't see how that tips were directly related to Privatebet promotion? The readers of the translation most probably just know what's neoDice. If you think the reader can find PrivateBet through neoDice, they may also learn about nxtventure, jlh and all others(*ad).

It's just my personal view based on the public information that 777 * 2 = 1554 neoDice shares were covered by Privatebet. It's OK, James, it's your asset and it's up to your decision.
Thanks.
I have found that when somebody owns a specific asset, then they tend to start thinking of ways to make that asset worth more.

Like sending NXT to someone, they might start finding out about all the other cryptos but since they actually have the NXT, they tend to start helping the NXT

James

You are actually wrong. I own so many assets. Have you seen I tended to start thinking of ways to make those assets worth more? I actually own Nxt since Nov. 2013 before you James (BTW, I own Bitcoin in 2011 before you James). Of course, I'm not so active than you James to make more money and help Nxt. I try my best to do what I can do within what I can control.

What I posted is just what I care the principle that matters when you dealt with those matters. I was a little curious about those distributions and then found those 777 tips, and also put that fact on the table. You James can't reply with those BS and didn't interpret the core of the questions.


« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 01:29:20 am by Jimmy2011 »
NXT-LX5G-L63N-ST8S-9LVZY

allwelder

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It seems that JL777 sent tips to the translators from the shares owned by PrivateBet. The translation should be the developers & maintainers' work, so personally I think it should be covered by the shares owned by the developers & maintainers (45%).


Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH


P.S. I just updated the translation for the phrase "know-how": https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=5624.msg108736#msg108736
It is my assessment that the more vested people we have who are active, especially in China, the better for Privatebet. I believe my judgement on such matters has been fairly good so far. Privatebet needs promotion and I have allocated 1% toward this. do you feel 1% toward promotion is too much?

James

Sorry, I can't see how that tips were directly related to Privatebet promotion? The readers of the translation most probably just know what's neoDice. If you think the reader can find PrivateBet through neoDice, they may also learn about nxtventure, jlh and all others(*ad).

It's just my personal view based on the public information that 777 * 2 = 1554 neoDice shares were covered by Privatebet. It's OK, James, it's your asset and it's up to your decision.
Thanks.
I have found that when somebody owns a specific asset, then they tend to start thinking of ways to make that asset worth more.

Like sending NXT to someone, they might start finding out about all the other cryptos but since they actually have the NXT, they tend to start helping the NXT

James

You are actually wrong. I own so many assets. Have you seen I tended to start thinking of ways to make those assets worth more? I actually own Nxt since Nov. 2013 before you James (BTW, I own Bitcoin in 2011 before you James). Of course, I'm not so active than you James to make more money and help Nxt. I try my best to do what I can do within what I can control.

What I posted is just what I care the principle that matters when you dealt with those matters. I was a little curious about those distributions and then found those 777 tips, and also put that fact on the table. You James can't reply with those BS and didn't interpret the core of the questions.
These little tips almost have no effect to whole Neodice or private project.
Another,what do you mean by post your history of Crypto holding?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 02:08:58 am by allwelder »
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Jimmy2011

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It seems that JL777 sent tips to the translators from the shares owned by PrivateBet. The translation should be the developers & maintainers' work, so personally I think it should be covered by the shares owned by the developers & maintainers (45%).


Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH


P.S. I just updated the translation for the phrase "know-how": https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=5624.msg108736#msg108736
It is my assessment that the more vested people we have who are active, especially in China, the better for Privatebet. I believe my judgement on such matters has been fairly good so far. Privatebet needs promotion and I have allocated 1% toward this. do you feel 1% toward promotion is too much?

James

Sorry, I can't see how that tips were directly related to Privatebet promotion? The readers of the translation most probably just know what's neoDice. If you think the reader can find PrivateBet through neoDice, they may also learn about nxtventure, jlh and all others(*ad).

It's just my personal view based on the public information that 777 * 2 = 1554 neoDice shares were covered by Privatebet. It's OK, James, it's your asset and it's up to your decision.
Thanks.
I have found that when somebody owns a specific asset, then they tend to start thinking of ways to make that asset worth more.

Like sending NXT to someone, they might start finding out about all the other cryptos but since they actually have the NXT, they tend to start helping the NXT

James

You are actually wrong. I own so many assets. Have you seen I tended to start thinking of ways to make those assets worth more? I actually own Nxt since Nov. 2013 before you James (BTW, I own Bitcoin in 2011 before you James). Of course, I'm not so active than you James to make more money and help Nxt. I try my best to do what I can do within what I can control.

What I posted is just what I care the principle that matters when you dealt with those matters. I was a little curious about those distributions and then found those 777 tips, and also put that fact on the table. You James can't reply with those BS and didn't interpret the core of the questions.
These little tips almost have no effect to whole Neodice or private project.
Another,what do you mean by post your history of Crypto holding?

You are right, but do you think they are private projects? No private projects, all those are public on the chain.

You can understand what it means to James's reply, though it's not so important effect on neoDice project, and I have told that I just care about the principle dealing with those matters, nothing I can do without my control. Anyway, it doesn't matter, move on all your work.

NXT-LX5G-L63N-ST8S-9LVZY

jl777

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It seems that JL777 sent tips to the translators from the shares owned by PrivateBet. The translation should be the developers & maintainers' work, so personally I think it should be covered by the shares owned by the developers & maintainers (45%).


Initial distribution of shares:
5% NXTventure dividend, 5% SuperNET dividend, 45% Developers & maintainers, 40% Privatebet, 5% JLH


P.S. I just updated the translation for the phrase "know-how": https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=5624.msg108736#msg108736
It is my assessment that the more vested people we have who are active, especially in China, the better for Privatebet. I believe my judgement on such matters has been fairly good so far. Privatebet needs promotion and I have allocated 1% toward this. do you feel 1% toward promotion is too much?

James

Sorry, I can't see how that tips were directly related to Privatebet promotion? The readers of the translation most probably just know what's neoDice. If you think the reader can find PrivateBet through neoDice, they may also learn about nxtventure, jlh and all others(*ad).

It's just my personal view based on the public information that 777 * 2 = 1554 neoDice shares were covered by Privatebet. It's OK, James, it's your asset and it's up to your decision.
Thanks.
I have found that when somebody owns a specific asset, then they tend to start thinking of ways to make that asset worth more.

Like sending NXT to someone, they might start finding out about all the other cryptos but since they actually have the NXT, they tend to start helping the NXT

James

You are actually wrong. I own so many assets. Have you seen I tended to start thinking of ways to make those assets worth more? I actually own Nxt since Nov. 2013 before you James (BTW, I own Bitcoin in 2011 before you James). Of course, I'm not so active than you James to make more money and help Nxt. I try my best to do what I can do within what I can control.

What I posted is just what I care the principle that matters when you dealt with those matters. I was a little curious about those distributions and then found those 777 tips, and also put that fact on the table. You James can't reply with those BS and didn't interpret the core of the questions.
These little tips almost have no effect to whole Neodice or private project.
Another,what do you mean by post your history of Crypto holding?

You are right, but do you think they are private projects? No private projects, all those are public on the chain.

You can understand what it means to James's reply, though it's not so important effect on neoDice project, and I have told that I just care about the principle dealing with those matters, nothing I can do without my control. Anyway, it doesn't matter, move on all your work.
Since you seem to want to micromanage my Privatebet actions, I hope you can approve of my sending some NeoDICE to longzai1988 who will be integrating it into the SuperNET GUI. This is beyond the scope of what the NeoDICE devs can do as it is in the SuperNET GUI and it is my opinion that having NeoDICE integrated into the SuperNET GUI will benefit both NeoDICE and its assetholders, which includes Privatebet.

Is this acceptable? You seem to be implying that I am doing something wrong.

Now, Privatebet is a public project and I have nothing to hide, it is all open. However, that doesnt mean that I should have to explain every expenditure, especially when they are relatively small. I might make over 100 decisions in a day across the range of all the assets, so I use my judgement and do not submit formal requests for spending. If I had to submit such paperwork for all expenditures, I would either spend a lot of time filling out forms, or just not do these things. Either seems a suboptimal outcome.

I work intuitively and sometimes there is no "logical" explanation for what I do, so to explain all the decisions would not necessarily make logical sense. Maybe I would have to explain some large interconnected strategy. I hope that you can judge me by the results and not be micromanaging every single expenditure.

If you want to form an expenditure approval committee and take part in the active running of Privatebet, then we can discuss that.

James
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JamesList

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I don't like the 2% house edge. It's like in casino.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 09:58:20 am by JamesList »

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Like my Avatar? Reply now! NXT-M5JR-2L5Z-CFBP-8X7P3

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Does bter support the UNITY snapshot on NeoDICE?
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