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Is this the end of MGW?
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Jacinto

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Is this the end of MGW?
« on: September 28, 2014, 08:05:42 am »

James posted this some hours ago:
Well, today is totally lost. Between dealing with investor support issues I have to spend hours fiddling with MGW server.

I have way too much coding to do to be stuck doing MGW server maintenance!

So far the issues have not been related to MGW itself, server out of RAM, new versions, shellshock, test versions crashing and messing up the cache, etc.

As of next weekend, I will formally stop running MGW servers. Until the production servers are running, there wont be any MGW servers.

I suggest to withdraw all the MGW assets ASAP. if they get stuck after I shutdown the MGW on my dev servers, it could take a while for me to figure out how to properly to manual withdraws. I need to code for 14 to 20 hours at a stretch and I cannot be monitoring people's deposit/withdraws that are not appearing after 17 blocks. So if you do not withdraw before the weekend, the funds will be safe but inaccessible for some weeks.

James

What does this exactly means? Will MGW be totally off in some days and never  come back? Why was not "the process" shared between 3 independent parties as it was described?
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tylergillies

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2014, 08:11:42 am »

As a developer myself I can speculate that James is doing 1000 things at once right now. he is probably prioritizing what is most important and MGW is unfortunately probably not at the top of the list.

Every decision has a downside and I commend his efforts to write code for SuperNET over trying to babysit MGW beta servers
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jl777

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2014, 08:16:49 am »

James posted this some hours ago:
Well, today is totally lost. Between dealing with investor support issues I have to spend hours fiddling with MGW server.

I have way too much coding to do to be stuck doing MGW server maintenance!

So far the issues have not been related to MGW itself, server out of RAM, new versions, shellshock, test versions crashing and messing up the cache, etc.

As of next weekend, I will formally stop running MGW servers. Until the production servers are running, there wont be any MGW servers.

I suggest to withdraw all the MGW assets ASAP. if they get stuck after I shutdown the MGW on my dev servers, it could take a while for me to figure out how to properly to manual withdraws. I need to code for 14 to 20 hours at a stretch and I cannot be monitoring people's deposit/withdraws that are not appearing after 17 blocks. So if you do not withdraw before the weekend, the funds will be safe but inaccessible for some weeks.

James

What does this exactly means? Will MGW be totally off in some days and never  come back? Why was not "the process" shared between 3 independent parties as it was described?
The production servers are supposed to be nearly ready, but I have been hearing this for 3 months. It is severely impacting my work schedule and I need to complete SuperNET, Teleport, Tradebots, InstantDEX and Privatebet this year. I do not have any time to do MGW customer support or server maintenance. That is not my expertise anyway.

things should go much better when I am not doing MGW stuff that I shouldnt have been doing for a while. If this means MGW is offline for a month, then so be it. At least my coding will get back on track.

I cant zone out in the code for 12 hours like I used to and this makes me much, much slower at coding and I wont be able to finish all the projects this year if I keep doing MGW support.

James
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Jacinto

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2014, 08:37:11 am »

I totally understand your reasons James. I thought the "MGW team" was composed by several members and this "server maintenance" work was delegated to other members apart from you.

I am concerned about losing such valuable "feature" of NXT just when it was catching real awareness. I hope this issue does not take too long  and the image of NXT "environment" is not damaged.
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jl777

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2014, 08:46:01 am »

I totally understand your reasons James. I thought the "MGW team" was composed by several members and this "server maintenance" work was delegated to other members apart from you.

I am concerned about losing such valuable "feature" of NXT just when it was catching real awareness. I hope this issue does not take too long  and the image of NXT "environment" is not damaged.
I have been trying to get out of running the MGW servers for months, currently I am still the only one who is running any production MGW for BTC

I dont want to lose the MGW feature for NXT either, but the alternative is delaying SuperNET and all the other projects by literally months

If I cannot code for 12 hours without worrying about a stuck MGW tx, then I end up going 10 times slower. 100 lines of code per day is nowhere near enough to complete all my projects by year end

James
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vladimirceman91

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2014, 08:59:29 am »

Just find someone to maintain the MGW instead of you, don't shut down this awesome feature!
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jl777

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2014, 09:03:32 am »

Just find someone to maintain the MGW instead of you, don't shut down this awesome feature!
You make it sound so easy.

There are already three companies in place, but has been months and we are a month past my end of August deadline and it is impacting my coding efficiency.

There are 600+ SuperNET assetholders who invested almost 6000 BTC who are counting on me to complete the tech.

James
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Canaanite

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2014, 09:25:01 am »

Just find someone to maintain the MGW instead of you, don't shut down this awesome feature!
You make it sound so easy.

There are already three companies in place, but has been months and we are a month past my end of August deadline and it is impacting my coding efficiency.

There are 600+ SuperNET assetholders who invested almost 6000 BTC who are counting on me to complete the tech.

James

and what about MGW asset holders?

edit : and people who will have their money stuck at MGW?
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jl777

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2014, 09:32:06 am »

Just find someone to maintain the MGW instead of you, don't shut down this awesome feature!
You make it sound so easy.

There are already three companies in place, but has been months and we are a month past my end of August deadline and it is impacting my coding efficiency.

There are 600+ SuperNET assetholders who invested almost 6000 BTC who are counting on me to complete the tech.

James

and what about MGW asset holders?

edit : and people who will have their money stuck at MGW?
what about the MGW asset holders? It is no surprise that I am not going to run the MGW on my dev servers forever.

why wont the people withdraw their funds from MGW?

Should I continue to work for free forever to keep the MGW servers running and delay coding for SuperNET?

James
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starik69

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2014, 10:00:26 am »

Beware all other James "assets" will end like this!  :o
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jl777

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2014, 10:02:55 am »

Beware all other James "assets" will end like this!  :o
you mean running on more reliable production servers?
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abuelau

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2014, 10:04:46 am »

I think that James is doing the right thing.

I am responsible for one of the production servers, and my server has been ready for nearly a month now. We had problems with one of the servers not being ready and taking too long, hence the delay. But it seems we are now really close to finishing this, we are entering the final stage of the configuration which is to share the mgw.conf between the 3 servers and test to see if they communicate to each other. I am expecting that the production servers will be operational before James shuts his servers down.

valarmg

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2014, 10:07:24 am »

I think that James is doing the right thing.

I am responsible for one of the production servers, and my server has been ready for nearly a month now. We had problems with one of the servers not being ready and taking too long, hence the delay. But it seems we are now really close to finishing this, we are entering the final stage of the configuration which is to share the mgw.conf between the 3 servers and test to see if they communicate to each other. I am expecting that the production servers will be operational before James shuts his servers down.

Fantastic news.
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youyou

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2014, 10:08:50 am »

don't listen to trolls and keep the good work James.

BUT one thing is true in all this: you should consider building a department/team that do thing that you are not the best person for: maintenance, communication, etc. You should also consider making a website where all infos about your projects could be centralized (oups!) in a synthetic and comprehensible way instead of scattered here and there.
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jl777

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2014, 10:13:33 am »

don't listen to trolls and keep the good work James.

BUT one thing is true in all this: you should consider building a department/team that do thing that you are not the best person for: maintenance, communication, etc. You should also consider making a website where all infos about your projects could be centralized (oups!) in a synthetic and comprehensible way instead of scattered here and there.
you mean like thesupernet.org
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Canaanite

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2014, 10:14:42 am »

I'm sorry, but i'm not a troll...
from what I understand from this story its not about servers and problems and team and ect. (all of those can be solved but I dont feel he wants to solve it)

Its all about time, James don't have time for MGW his older project and he want to focus on supernet his new one.
That is completely fine by me but not until you have someone who will take care of MGW.

If an exchange would have closed because the founder doesn't have time for it, and you have money stuck there would you be fine with it? I really doubt it.

anyways im not going to respond to this subject anymore as I don't think I can add anything new.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 10:17:48 am by Canaanite »
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Fatih87SK

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2014, 10:15:02 am »

I think that James is doing the right thing.

I am responsible for one of the production servers, and my server has been ready for nearly a month now. We had problems with one of the servers not being ready and taking too long, hence the delay. But it seems we are now really close to finishing this, we are entering the final stage of the configuration which is to share the mgw.conf between the 3 servers and test to see if they communicate to each other. I am expecting that the production servers will be operational before James shuts his servers down.
Great communication. Panic for nothing then.
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youyou

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2014, 10:16:33 am »

don't listen to trolls and keep the good work James.

BUT one thing is true in all this: you should consider building a department/team that do thing that you are not the best person for: maintenance, communication, etc. You should also consider making a website where all infos about your projects could be centralized (oups!) in a synthetic and comprehensible way instead of scattered here and there.
you mean like thesupernet.org

doesn't work, is the server up?
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valarmg

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2014, 10:18:35 am »

I'm sorry, but i'm not a troll...
from what I understand from this story its not about servers and problem and team and ect.. (all of those can be solved but I dont feel he wants to solve it)

Its all about time, James don't have time for MGW his older project and he want to focus on supernet his new one.
That is completely fine by me but not until you have someone who will take care for MGW.

If an exchange would have closed because the founder doesn't have time for it, and you have money stuck there would you be fine with it? I really doubt it.

anyways im not going to respond to this subject anymore as I don't think I can add anything new.

James has a team lined up to take over the MGW. See post above by abuelau.

I think James's announcement was just to hurry them into action. I do think the announcement was ill-advised though, whatever the result.
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starik69

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2014, 10:21:04 am »

Beware all other James "assets" will end like this!  :o
you mean running on more reliable production servers?
I mean SuperNet will be stopped when some SuperSuperNet became your priority :P
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youyou

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2014, 10:22:26 am »

I'm sorry, but i'm not a troll...
from what I understand from this story its not about servers and problem and team and ect.. (all of those can be solved but I dont feel he wants to solve it)

Its all about time, James don't have time for MGW his older project and he want to focus on supernet his new one.
That is completely fine by me but not until you have someone who will take care for MGW.

If an exchange would have closed because the founder doesn't have time for it, and you have money stuck there would you be fine with it? I really doubt it.

anyways im not going to respond to this subject anymore as I don't think I can add anything new.

James has a team lined up to take over the MGW. See post above by abuelau.

I think James's announcement was just to hurry them into action. I do think the announcement was ill-advised though, whatever the result.

yes i'm aware of this, but this is because i look at this forum many times a day. Think about people that doesn't, about new users etc: it's about these people that James will have to care when his projects will become really big. I'm just saying that thing must be prepared not only on a technical point of vue but also on the communication point of vue mainly when things are becoming big.
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Logan

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2014, 10:24:00 am »

The step is comprehensible, from the coders point.. but not from the perspective of investors/traders. You cant announce something like that 5(!) days before and assume that everybody who has mgwBTC Assets will read the forum.

That will undermines the trust in MGW and propably other James Assets.
Quote
There are 600+ SuperNET assetholders who invested almost 6000 BTC who are counting on me to complete the tech.
They invested because they trust you.. dont risk to loose that on the long run.

I dont have any of your assets but iam a Service Provider too. Customers dont like stuck money and will remember that for a long time.
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jl777

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2014, 10:37:23 am »

don't listen to trolls and keep the good work James.

BUT one thing is true in all this: you should consider building a department/team that do thing that you are not the best person for: maintenance, communication, etc. You should also consider making a website where all infos about your projects could be centralized (oups!) in a synthetic and comprehensible way instead of scattered here and there.
you mean like thesupernet.org

doesn't work, is the server up?
https://forum.thesupernet.org works for me
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youyou

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2014, 10:39:04 am »

get it, thx
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2014, 10:41:00 am »

Please don't panic.

I'm in the lead of the MGW triplet and we will take care of it. I'm not at my computer now, but I will be in a few hours.

I will elaborate more on this topic a bit later. But don't worry, we got a new member on the MGW team which needed a week to get the server running.

We're probably on air that weekend anyway. Nearly there.
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jl777

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2014, 10:42:19 am »

The step is comprehensible, from the coders point.. but not from the perspective of investors/traders. You cant announce something like that 5(!) days before and assume that everybody who has mgwBTC Assets will read the forum.

That will undermines the trust in MGW and propably other James Assets.
Quote
There are 600+ SuperNET assetholders who invested almost 6000 BTC who are counting on me to complete the tech.
They invested because they trust you.. dont risk to loose that on the long run.

I dont have any of your assets but iam a Service Provider too. Customers dont like stuck money and will remember that for a long time.
At the end of July I announced that the end of August would be when I would stop, that was more than one month notice and more than two months ago. I never agreed to continue running the servers forever so not sure how I am breaking anybody's trust on this.

then there was the non-backwards compatible NRS release and bter hack incident and all of September has gone by. If 5 days is not enough for the production team to get the production servers ready then what am I to do? I made the software but I never agreed to run the servers forever.

The money will be stuck only as long as the production servers are offline (plus a day or so)
this downtime is unavoidable and recently we are getting this downtime anyway

James
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jl777

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2014, 10:48:18 am »

Beware all other James "assets" will end like this!  :o
you mean running on more reliable production servers?
I mean SuperNet will be stopped when some SuperSuperNet became your priority :P
I never agreed to run the MGW servers forever. Please find my promise to do this. I wrote the code, I ran the dev servers, I was MGW customer support and server tech for far longer than is reasonable. I have given MONTHS notice. I have setup production server team and uMGW teams. I have trained people on how to run the MGW, even make code changes.

There comes a time when a project needs to stand on its own two feet and not rely on its founder anymore. For MGW, that time is now. it will work much better when all of MGW is NOT centralized through me. MGW will become much better when I am not doing the day to day work on it. Already we see marcus03 has made a realtime status page you can view from the web.

So for the benefit of MGW I have to force it out of the nest and it must learn to fly.

James

P.S. I also want to become obsolete for SuperNET. Once there are specialists doing all the things that need to be done, then SuperNET will be better off than having everything centralized through me. However, first I must complete the coding and get it ready to fly on its own.
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valarmg

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2014, 11:07:42 am »


There comes a time when a project needs to stand on its own two feet and not rely on its founder anymore. For MGW, that time is now. it will work much better when all of MGW is NOT centralized through me. MGW will become much better when I am not doing the day to day work on it.

This makes sense.

This info should have been in your initial announcement, plus about production servers being close to ready. The way you framed it led some people to believe that the MGW was being abandoned, and might never be resurrected, hence the title of this OP.

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jl777

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2014, 11:12:55 am »


There comes a time when a project needs to stand on its own two feet and not rely on its founder anymore. For MGW, that time is now. it will work much better when all of MGW is NOT centralized through me. MGW will become much better when I am not doing the day to day work on it.

This makes sense.

This info should have been in your initial announcement, plus about production servers being close to ready. The way you framed it led some people to believe that the MGW was being abandoned, and might never be resurrected, hence the title of this OP.
I am always being told that I am not good at communicating properly
this is proof of that
however I am good at coding
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2014, 12:33:15 pm »

James I respect you very much, because you are always there to help if anyone has question or a problem, but I must express my opinion.

Why are you making new stuff on top of NXT, if you can't even handle one thing?

You made MGW, which I think is AWESOME (I used it since begining and ditched other exchanges), big step towards complete decentralisation and now when it's holding you back, you are going to shut it down, because you must make new stuff.

How can we expect that all the new stuff you make won't fail just like MGW?

If you pile up a bunch of stuff that would need adjusting all the time, then they will fail one by one...

Get someone to help you maintaining MGW.
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valarmg

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2014, 12:54:55 pm »

James I respect you very much, because you are always there to help if anyone has question or a problem, but I must express my opinion.

Why are you making new stuff on top of NXT, if you can't even handle one thing?

You made MGW, which I think is AWESOME (I used it since begining and ditched other exchanges), big step towards complete decentralisation and now when it's holding you back, you are going to shut it down, because you must make new stuff.

How can we expect that all the new stuff you make won't fail just like MGW?

If you pile up a bunch of stuff that would need adjusting all the time, then they will fail one by one...

Get someone to help you maintaining MGW.

Read other posts in the thread. The MGW is not going down, instead the production servers guys (Frohike/coinomat/abeulau) are taking over. It was just a miscommunication from James.
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2014, 12:55:02 pm »

How can we expect that all the new stuff you make won't fail just like MGW?

MGW hasn't failed.  Production has been delayed is all.  This honestly happens very often in the tech world.

It sounds like Team Adama is on track for a release soon, however.

Also, as a member of Team Starbuck(MGW Cluster #1), I want to assure all MGW users that James's announcement does not affect Dogecoin, Blackcoin, and Viacoin on MGW.  It runs on different servers and will continue to do so no matter what happens with the Cluster #0 in the next couple weeks.
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2014, 02:44:56 pm »

Please dont shut down the amazing MGW feature.
Thanks james for all hard and coding for Nxt .
Nxt community we need to provide suitable/stable/long term server for MGW.
Don't  we want to see bter's accident without MGW again?
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2014, 05:39:06 pm »


There comes a time when a project needs to stand on its own two feet and not rely on its founder anymore. For MGW, that time is now. it will work much better when all of MGW is NOT centralized through me. MGW will become much better when I am not doing the day to day work on it.

This makes sense.

This info should have been in your initial announcement, plus about production servers being close to ready. The way you framed it led some people to believe that the MGW was being abandoned, and might never be resurrected, hence the title of this OP.

Just to summarise a little; James wants to step away from the sheer hassle of running day-to-day MGW operations inorder to spend more time coding on SuperNET. Understandable.

There has always been a vague roadmap to completely hand over all MGW operations to the wider NXT community, so this announcement shouldn't really come as a massive surprise, but should be seen as an important step in taking MGW operations to the next level.

And finally: it looks as if MGW operations will continue almost uninterrupted, with both teams looking good to take over operations from James.
Don't forgetv that MGW is meant to be as open as NXT itself, so if anyone has the urge to run an MGW server triplet.....get in touch with one of the existing team members.
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2014, 06:40:19 pm »

MGW guys if you need for some help please write me pm. I can recommend a coder/server admin, share my own knowledge etc.
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2014, 06:45:01 pm »

I understand James reasons and withdrew the remaining mgwBTC. As both an active market maker for mgw and a superNET stakeholder i hope the best for these projects and i want to thank James for what he is doing.
How long will i have to wait for my withdrawal request to be processed?   
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2014, 08:15:16 pm »

I understand James reasons and withdrew the remaining mgwBTC. As both an active market maker for mgw and a superNET stakeholder i hope the best for these projects and i want to thank James for what he is doing.
How long will i have to wait for my withdrawal request to be processed?
this is weekend and dgex doesnt do withdraws during the weekend and I switched to dgex response time this month, but people still PM me when their tx is more than 1 hour delayed. This is not good for me, nor for the users. MGW should have much better response times

the last server is almost caught up, took 24+ hours to recreate the cache for some reason, but I dont have the time to investigate why it is slow, so it is just chugging away.

So I think it should clear all withdraws sometime today.

For everyone worried about MGW shutdown, it is the MGW on my development servers that will be shutdown. These are called development servers because I am running experimental versions. Sometimes 100 in a day! Such versions are prone to crashing. That is what happened and the data cache got corrupted. So it is not safe for me to run experimental versions on the dev servers.

There have been production servers "almost ready" for over two months now and I have to hand off the MGW to others. I am running all three MGW servers, which is not its design. It also means three times the work to keep them up to date, synchronized, etc.

Thanks to all who are understanding of what I am doing. For those that are hating me for doing this, wait a week and see what the production team can do. Maybe MGW will have near realtime response and support half a dozen coins.

It is time for MGW to be run by the community

James
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2014, 09:13:59 pm »

Please don't panic.

I'm in the lead of the MGW triplet and we will take care of it. I'm not at my computer now, but I will be in a few hours.

I will elaborate more on this topic a bit later. But don't worry, we got a new member on the MGW team which needed a week to get the server running.

We're probably on air that weekend anyway. Nearly there.

Good to hear this. Please communicate this to the community. Communication is key to keep trust in MGW.

Good luck!
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2014, 09:24:27 pm »

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2014, 09:24:43 pm »

There's a very solid team behind MGW and it will really take off in a good direction. You may want to think about the MGW asset price. Right now it's super cheap. In the next few weeks after server launch it will skyrocket. Just my feeling, knowing the strength of the team behind it.
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jl777

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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2014, 09:40:54 pm »

There's a very solid team behind MGW and it will really take off in a good direction. You may want to think about the MGW asset price. Right now it's super cheap. In the next few weeks after server launch it will skyrocket. Just my feeling, knowing the strength of the team behind it.
good point!
I feel much better about MGW to know that instead of just me running it, there will be more than half a dozen people.
I just bought some MGW

James
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2014, 10:16:10 pm »

Okay.

We had to wait for some time on a third member, and we ended up replacing that member for a new member, which is Coinomat.
I gave them instructions and waited for some time now, like 10 days or something. This should be enough for them and I heard they are nearly there.
So, things go well up until now.

The various wallets are set up on the first two members already some time ago. The triplet is now waiting for the third one but I have trust that they will deliver it and then we can start the processes and if necessary troubleshoot the setup.  In the mean time I'm investigating the wallets, ports used, setting the permissions and so on.

If all goes well, the triplet is up and running next weekend. If things go wrong and we need to troubleshoot things, we will get all the help from James and eventually others who are able to help. We need to get things up and running.


PS
Thanks for the offer to help kushti.  I contact you regarding nxt client hardening if you don't mind. I need to know some things about the inner workings.
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2014, 10:44:36 pm »

If we transfer BTC on MGW while the transition is happening, will the BTC go through when the production servers come online? As long as I don't actually lose any money I don't care about the wait.
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2014, 11:01:33 pm »

If we transfer BTC on MGW while the transition is happening, will the BTC go through when the production servers come online? As long as I don't actually lose any money I don't care about the wait.
From the moment my MGW servers are offline, they will stop processing withdraws.
any pending withdraws should be picked up by the production servers

however at that point they wont have the BTC unspent outputs as I wouldnt have had a chance to send it to the production deposit addresses.

Since there are hundreds, almost 1000, unspent outputs, manually cashing them is not an option. I dont want to be rushing to code up some onetime multisig spend stuff, so I think it is best to do the following:

0. generate production MGW deposit address and turn off production servers
1. transfer myself mgwBTC assets enough to match the unspent outputs, this will allow me to withdraw
2. do withdraws using MGW to my production MGW deposit address
3. wait for the deposits to clear and the new mgwBTC assets to arrive
4. send the new assets back to MGW account (similar to sending to genesis, but it recycled in this case)
5. turn off my dev MGW servers, turn on the production MGW servers

I think the above procedure will prevent any mishaps and keep things in balance at the end of the last step and most importantly the production MGW servers will have the unspent outputs that match the mgwBTC assets on deposit

James

P.S. I apologize for my alarmist post last night, it was a very long day and after being trolled all day long (due to no NAV buywall caused by stuck deposit at bter) to the point where I just had to stop actively monitoring the BTT SuperNET thread, I was looking forward to doing some coding and then the MGW servers were screaming at me and I just lost my temper. That being said, we really need to transition to production servers! All the old deposit addresses will not work, well it will send funds to the dev servers and not sure how long it will be before I will be able to retrieve any such funds.
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2014, 12:06:10 am »

BTT can (and will) drive you mad. And make you a grumpy person.....
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2014, 12:12:38 am »

BTT can (and will) drive you mad. And make you a grumpy person.....
yes you are right, it did make me grumpy and mad
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2014, 12:32:09 am »

If we transfer BTC on MGW while the transition is happening, will the BTC go through when the production servers come online? As long as I don't actually lose any money I don't care about the wait.
From the moment my MGW servers are offline, they will stop processing withdraws.
any pending withdraws should be picked up by the production servers

however at that point they wont have the BTC unspent outputs as I wouldnt have had a chance to send it to the production deposit addresses.

Since there are hundreds, almost 1000, unspent outputs, manually cashing them is not an option. I dont want to be rushing to code up some onetime multisig spend stuff, so I think it is best to do the following:

0. generate production MGW deposit address and turn off production servers
1. transfer myself mgwBTC assets enough to match the unspent outputs, this will allow me to withdraw
2. do withdraws using MGW to my production MGW deposit address
3. wait for the deposits to clear and the new mgwBTC assets to arrive
4. send the new assets back to MGW account (similar to sending to genesis, but it recycled in this case)
5. turn off my dev MGW servers, turn on the production MGW servers

I think the above procedure will prevent any mishaps and keep things in balance at the end of the last step and most importantly the production MGW servers will have the unspent outputs that match the mgwBTC assets on deposit

James

P.S. I apologize for my alarmist post last night, it was a very long day and after being trolled all day long (due to no NAV buywall caused by stuck deposit at bter) to the point where I just had to stop actively monitoring the BTT SuperNET thread, I was looking forward to doing some coding and then the MGW servers were screaming at me and I just lost my temper. That being said, we really need to transition to production servers! All the old deposit addresses will not work, well it will send funds to the dev servers and not sure how long it will be before I will be able to retrieve any such funds.

That is good news. I was worried for a second yesterday.
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2014, 06:34:53 am »

Wondering if I should buy these assets. Can someone explain how dividends are to be expected then?
I understand that there will be such a small fee for the MGW servers to only cover the running costs?
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2014, 08:57:15 am »

Are the MGW servers offline? Still waiting for a withdrawal since 26/09

http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=2000&tra=10729876664729894841
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #50 on: September 29, 2014, 12:59:36 pm »

Thank you James for your answers. I feel much more confident about MGW now.  :)

And thank you everybody for the discussion!
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #51 on: September 29, 2014, 05:02:22 pm »

the last server is almost caught up, took 24+ hours to recreate the cache for some reason, but I dont have the time to investigate why it is slow, so it is just chugging away.

So I think it should clear all withdraws sometime today.

Any news on this? As you requested/advised in your 'alarmist' post, I withdrew my BTC and BTCD from the MGW yesterday. Neither has arrived at the wallets yet. Limbo.
I wasn't planning on trading either, so no real rush :)
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2014, 09:34:59 pm »

the server with the problems is caught up, but the third server hit a fork did a restart and is lagging
it is within 1000 blocks, so hopefully soon

However with all the withdraws pending, it exceeded the max allowed
so I had to make a new version that increased this max

which then overflowed a different buffer, so I had to do another iteration to fix that

then a scenario that is rare, but with the large number of pending tx becomes more likely appeared. The internal order of the tx was inconsistent between the servers. This created the same outputs but in a different order and so the servers didnt sync. I believe this happened due to a timing race condition between when a BTC block comes in vs. when a NXT block comes in, especially if a NXT block is a longer than a BTC block. And this has to happen so that on one server it goes in one order, but on another the different order. So, the same money result but different order in the transaction and the servers dont match

to fix this I just sort the outputs in descending order of amounts

I made a few other small changes, but one of them seems to cause a crash and restart so I reverted it.

Now 2 of 3 servers are running the version with a much bigger buffer, sorted outputs and what I hope are a few bug fixes and not new bugs.

If all goes well in a few hours, it should be caught up, but so far nothing has gone well so until I post that the MGW is caught up, it is not.

James
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #53 on: September 29, 2014, 09:42:35 pm »

Thanks for the update and the hard work!
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #54 on: September 29, 2014, 09:42:51 pm »

Good news and bad news.
All three servers caught up and so all the bad data in the cache has been fixed. However, they still dont sync as the inputs are coming in a different order.

I also realized that sorting the outputs by amount could lead to different order on different servers if there are different withdraws of the same amount and the sort also isnt deterministic. Since it is a one level sort, I am not sure how it will end up on the different servers.

To solve both issues I now sort both inputs and outputs based on strings made from the txid.vout or destaddr, since the txid.vout and destaddrs are unique there is no worries about different orders when the primary keys are the same

Since these are rather big changes, I am testing on the BTCD side of things and if all goes well (definitely not the recent trend), within a few hours I will have confirmation that the new input + output sorting is working.

However, along the way I might have introduced a bug in the sync networking code as the crc's for the batchwidthdraws are always 0 for the other servers.

Anyway, step by step progress. First get all three servers to generate sorted batch withdraws, then get the network sync fixed (if it is actually broken), then restart for BTC.

Unfortunately, with the times measured in hours for each iteration (the code that I tried to speed things up caused core dumps) I doubt the withdraws for some hours yet.

If there is any good news in any of this, it is that new cases of withdraw conditions created by the mass withdraws has actually found the first MGW bugs found in a long time and having them fixed now is definitely better than after it was in production.

James

tl:dr wait until I say MGW is all caught up, until then no withdraws will happen
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #55 on: September 29, 2014, 11:36:21 pm »

mgwBTCD should be caught up now
let me know if any missing tx

It was only three withdraws so didnt run into the complex cases that the mgwBTC batch is doing. So no guarantees it will work first shot, but they did sync and just waiting for updated balances before restarting with BTC

James
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Re: Is this the end of MGW?
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2014, 12:19:03 pm »

At the end of July I announced that the end of August would be when I would stop, that was more than one month notice and more than two months ago. I never agreed to continue running the servers forever so not sure how I am breaking anybody's trust on this.

then there was the non-backwards compatible NRS release and bter hack incident and all of September has gone by. If 5 days is not enough for the production team to get the production servers ready then what am I to do? I made the software but I never agreed to run the servers forever.

The money will be stuck only as long as the production servers are offline (plus a day or so)
this downtime is unavoidable and recently we are getting this downtime anyway

James

Another question regarding the ownership and further continuation of the MGW.
On the Asset its stated

Quote
each MGW asset represents .0001% of multigateway multigateway will generate minimal fees from deposits and withdraws of cryptos into NXT AE. [...] Such revenues received net of operating costs will be distributed to asset holders. multigateway isnt a non-profit, but it also isnt designed to be a massive profit generator. Any investment in multigateway will help cover operating costs and help the NXT community.

So now we have multiple parties that pay for production servers and additionaly we have multiple parties that organize different coins or whatever will come. (dunno if MGW is restricted to coins) So from an outside perspective it can get confusing who actually runs which server and this is where the decentralazation comes in place. Which on the one hand is an advantage, on the other hand it gets confusing when it comes to profits or organization structures.

The MGW Asset was made to pay for the development process and the production server. Will / did frohike, abuelau and coinomat receive NXT that have been spend on the Asset for the production server running? If a new party joins, will it be funded with these NXT?

Will James be handling the dividends that go to the Asset holder or who will be repsonsible for this in the future? Who will be organizing
Quote
Currently its projected revenue source will be via auctions for listing altcoins and altcoin giveaways.
or is this position already placed?

I am not sure if these questions have been discussed before but as I would like to invest more in MGW myself, I am interested in these topics. I am aware that MGW is still in its infancy and these things can still be organized, I am wondering if there is some info on this. Thanks already!
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