Topic: Is this the end of MGW? (Read 8818 times)

P2PGuy · « **Reply #40 on:** September 28, 2014, 09:24:43 pm »

There's a very solid team behind MGW and it will really take off in a good direction. You may want to think about the MGW asset price. Right now it's super cheap. In the next few weeks after server launch it will skyrocket. Just my feeling, knowing the strength of the team behind it.

jl777 · « **Reply #41 on:** September 28, 2014, 09:40:54 pm »

Quote from: P2PGuy on September 28, 2014, 09:24:43 pm

There's a very solid team behind MGW and it will really take off in a good direction. You may want to think about the MGW asset price. Right now it's super cheap. In the next few weeks after server launch it will skyrocket. Just my feeling, knowing the strength of the team behind it.

good point!
I feel much better about MGW to know that instead of just me running it, there will be more than half a dozen people.
I just bought some MGW

James

Frohike · « **Reply #42 on:** September 28, 2014, 10:16:10 pm »

Okay.

We had to wait for some time on a third member, and we ended up replacing that member for a new member, which is Coinomat.
I gave them instructions and waited for some time now, like 10 days or something. This should be enough for them and I heard they are nearly there.
So, things go well up until now.

The various wallets are set up on the first two members already some time ago. The triplet is now waiting for the third one but I have trust that they will deliver it and then we can start the processes and if necessary troubleshoot the setup. In the mean time I'm investigating the wallets, ports used, setting the permissions and so on.

If all goes well, the triplet is up and running next weekend. If things go wrong and we need to troubleshoot things, we will get all the help from James and eventually others who are able to help. We need to get things up and running.

PS
Thanks for the offer to help kushti. I contact you regarding nxt client hardening if you don't mind. I need to know some things about the inner workings.

tylergillies · « **Reply #43 on:** September 28, 2014, 10:44:36 pm »

If we transfer BTC on MGW while the transition is happening, will the BTC go through when the production servers come online? As long as I don't actually lose any money I don't care about the wait.

jl777 · « **Reply #44 on:** September 28, 2014, 11:01:33 pm »

Quote from: tylergillies on September 28, 2014, 10:44:36 pm

If we transfer BTC on MGW while the transition is happening, will the BTC go through when the production servers come online? As long as I don't actually lose any money I don't care about the wait.

From the moment my MGW servers are offline, they will stop processing withdraws.
any pending withdraws should be picked up by the production servers

however at that point they wont have the BTC unspent outputs as I wouldnt have had a chance to send it to the production deposit addresses.

Since there are hundreds, almost 1000, unspent outputs, manually cashing them is not an option. I dont want to be rushing to code up some onetime multisig spend stuff, so I think it is best to do the following:

0. generate production MGW deposit address and turn off production servers
1. transfer myself mgwBTC assets enough to match the unspent outputs, this will allow me to withdraw
2. do withdraws using MGW to my production MGW deposit address
3. wait for the deposits to clear and the new mgwBTC assets to arrive
4. send the new assets back to MGW account (similar to sending to genesis, but it recycled in this case)
5. turn off my dev MGW servers, turn on the production MGW servers

I think the above procedure will prevent any mishaps and keep things in balance at the end of the last step and most importantly the production MGW servers will have the unspent outputs that match the mgwBTC assets on deposit

James

P.S. I apologize for my alarmist post last night, it was a very long day and after being trolled all day long (due to no NAV buywall caused by stuck deposit at bter) to the point where I just had to stop actively monitoring the BTT SuperNET thread, I was looking forward to doing some coding and then the MGW servers were screaming at me and I just lost my temper. That being said, we really need to transition to production servers! All the old deposit addresses will not work, well it will send funds to the dev servers and not sure how long it will be before I will be able to retrieve any such funds.

EvilDave · « **Reply #45 on:** September 29, 2014, 12:06:10 am »

BTT can (and will) drive you mad. And make you a grumpy person.....

jl777 · « **Reply #46 on:** September 29, 2014, 12:12:38 am »

Quote from: EvilDave on September 29, 2014, 12:06:10 am

BTT can (and will) drive you mad. And make you a grumpy person.....

yes you are right, it did make me grumpy and mad

FunBot · « **Reply #47 on:** September 29, 2014, 12:32:09 am »

Quote from: jl777 on September 28, 2014, 11:01:33 pm

Quote from: tylergillies on September 28, 2014, 10:44:36 pm
If we transfer BTC on MGW while the transition is happening, will the BTC go through when the production servers come online? As long as I don't actually lose any money I don't care about the wait.
From the moment my MGW servers are offline, they will stop processing withdraws.
any pending withdraws should be picked up by the production servers

however at that point they wont have the BTC unspent outputs as I wouldnt have had a chance to send it to the production deposit addresses.

Since there are hundreds, almost 1000, unspent outputs, manually cashing them is not an option. I dont want to be rushing to code up some onetime multisig spend stuff, so I think it is best to do the following:

0. generate production MGW deposit address and turn off production servers
1. transfer myself mgwBTC assets enough to match the unspent outputs, this will allow me to withdraw
2. do withdraws using MGW to my production MGW deposit address
3. wait for the deposits to clear and the new mgwBTC assets to arrive
4. send the new assets back to MGW account (similar to sending to genesis, but it recycled in this case)
5. turn off my dev MGW servers, turn on the production MGW servers

I think the above procedure will prevent any mishaps and keep things in balance at the end of the last step and most importantly the production MGW servers will have the unspent outputs that match the mgwBTC assets on deposit

James

P.S. I apologize for my alarmist post last night, it was a very long day and after being trolled all day long (due to no NAV buywall caused by stuck deposit at bter) to the point where I just had to stop actively monitoring the BTT SuperNET thread, I was looking forward to doing some coding and then the MGW servers were screaming at me and I just lost my temper. That being said, we really need to transition to production servers! All the old deposit addresses will not work, well it will send funds to the dev servers and not sure how long it will be before I will be able to retrieve any such funds.

That is good news. I was worried for a second yesterday.

sokrazel · « **Reply #48 on:** September 29, 2014, 06:34:53 am »

Wondering if I should buy these assets. Can someone explain how dividends are to be expected then?
I understand that there will be such a small fee for the MGW servers to only cover the running costs?

alex0909 · « **Reply #49 on:** September 29, 2014, 08:57:15 am »

Are the MGW servers offline? Still waiting for a withdrawal since 26/09

http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=2000&tra=10729876664729894841

Jacinto · « **Reply #50 on:** September 29, 2014, 12:59:36 pm »

Thank you James for your answers. I feel much more confident about MGW now.

And thank you everybody for the discussion!

Peter2516 · « **Reply #51 on:** September 29, 2014, 05:02:22 pm »

Quote from: jl777 on September 28, 2014, 08:15:16 pm

the last server is almost caught up, took 24+ hours to recreate the cache for some reason, but I dont have the time to investigate why it is slow, so it is just chugging away.

So I think it should clear all withdraws sometime today.

Any news on this? As you requested/advised in your 'alarmist' post, I withdrew my BTC and BTCD from the MGW yesterday. Neither has arrived at the wallets yet. Limbo.
I wasn't planning on trading either, so no real rush

jl777 · « **Reply #52 on:** September 29, 2014, 09:34:59 pm »

the server with the problems is caught up, but the third server hit a fork did a restart and is lagging
it is within 1000 blocks, so hopefully soon

However with all the withdraws pending, it exceeded the max allowed
so I had to make a new version that increased this max

which then overflowed a different buffer, so I had to do another iteration to fix that

then a scenario that is rare, but with the large number of pending tx becomes more likely appeared. The internal order of the tx was inconsistent between the servers. This created the same outputs but in a different order and so the servers didnt sync. I believe this happened due to a timing race condition between when a BTC block comes in vs. when a NXT block comes in, especially if a NXT block is a longer than a BTC block. And this has to happen so that on one server it goes in one order, but on another the different order. So, the same money result but different order in the transaction and the servers dont match

to fix this I just sort the outputs in descending order of amounts

I made a few other small changes, but one of them seems to cause a crash and restart so I reverted it.

Now 2 of 3 servers are running the version with a much bigger buffer, sorted outputs and what I hope are a few bug fixes and not new bugs.

If all goes well in a few hours, it should be caught up, but so far nothing has gone well so until I post that the MGW is caught up, it is not.

James

Peter2516 · « **Reply #53 on:** September 29, 2014, 09:42:35 pm »

Thanks for the update and the hard work!

jl777 · « **Reply #54 on:** September 29, 2014, 09:42:51 pm »

Good news and bad news.
All three servers caught up and so all the bad data in the cache has been fixed. However, they still dont sync as the inputs are coming in a different order.

I also realized that sorting the outputs by amount could lead to different order on different servers if there are different withdraws of the same amount and the sort also isnt deterministic. Since it is a one level sort, I am not sure how it will end up on the different servers.

To solve both issues I now sort both inputs and outputs based on strings made from the txid.vout or destaddr, since the txid.vout and destaddrs are unique there is no worries about different orders when the primary keys are the same

Since these are rather big changes, I am testing on the BTCD side of things and if all goes well (definitely not the recent trend), within a few hours I will have confirmation that the new input + output sorting is working.

However, along the way I might have introduced a bug in the sync networking code as the crc's for the batchwidthdraws are always 0 for the other servers.

Anyway, step by step progress. First get all three servers to generate sorted batch withdraws, then get the network sync fixed (if it is actually broken), then restart for BTC.

Unfortunately, with the times measured in hours for each iteration (the code that I tried to speed things up caused core dumps) I doubt the withdraws for some hours yet.

If there is any good news in any of this, it is that new cases of withdraw conditions created by the mass withdraws has actually found the first MGW bugs found in a long time and having them fixed now is definitely better than after it was in production.

James

tl:dr wait until I say MGW is all caught up, until then no withdraws will happen

jl777 · « **Reply #55 on:** September 29, 2014, 11:36:21 pm »

mgwBTCD should be caught up now
let me know if any missing tx

It was only three withdraws so didnt run into the complex cases that the mgwBTC batch is doing. So no guarantees it will work first shot, but they did sync and just waiting for updated balances before restarting with BTC

James

Tosch110 · « **Reply #56 on:** September 30, 2014, 12:19:03 pm »

Quote from: jl777 on September 28, 2014, 10:42:19 am

At the end of July I announced that the end of August would be when I would stop, that was more than one month notice and more than two months ago. I never agreed to continue running the servers forever so not sure how I am breaking anybody's trust on this.

then there was the non-backwards compatible NRS release and bter hack incident and all of September has gone by. If 5 days is not enough for the production team to get the production servers ready then what am I to do? I made the software but I never agreed to run the servers forever.

The money will be stuck only as long as the production servers are offline (plus a day or so)
this downtime is unavoidable and recently we are getting this downtime anyway

James

Another question regarding the ownership and further continuation of the MGW.
On the Asset its stated

Quote

each MGW asset represents .0001% of multigateway multigateway will generate minimal fees from deposits and withdraws of cryptos into NXT AE. [...] Such revenues received net of operating costs will be distributed to asset holders. multigateway isnt a non-profit, but it also isnt designed to be a massive profit generator. Any investment in multigateway will help cover operating costs and help the NXT community.

So now we have multiple parties that pay for production servers and additionaly we have multiple parties that organize different coins or whatever will come. (dunno if MGW is restricted to coins) So from an outside perspective it can get confusing who actually runs which server and this is where the decentralazation comes in place. Which on the one hand is an advantage, on the other hand it gets confusing when it comes to profits or organization structures.

The MGW Asset was made to pay for the development process and the production server. Will / did frohike, abuelau and coinomat receive NXT that have been spend on the Asset for the production server running? If a new party joins, will it be funded with these NXT?

Will James be handling the dividends that go to the Asset holder or who will be repsonsible for this in the future? Who will be organizing

Quote

Currently its projected revenue source will be via auctions for listing altcoins and altcoin giveaways.

or is this position already placed?

I am not sure if these questions have been discussed before but as I would like to invest more in MGW myself, I am interested in these topics. I am aware that MGW is still in its infancy and these things can still be organized, I am wondering if there is some info on this. Thanks already!

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Author Topic: Is this the end of MGW? (Read 8818 times)

P2PGuy

Re: Is this the end of MGW?

jl777

Re: Is this the end of MGW?

Frohike

Re: Is this the end of MGW?

tylergillies

Re: Is this the end of MGW?

jl777

Re: Is this the end of MGW?

EvilDave

Re: Is this the end of MGW?

jl777

Re: Is this the end of MGW?

FunBot

Re: Is this the end of MGW?

sokrazel

Re: Is this the end of MGW?

alex0909

Re: Is this the end of MGW?

Jacinto

Re: Is this the end of MGW?

Peter2516

Re: Is this the end of MGW?

jl777

Re: Is this the end of MGW?

Peter2516

Re: Is this the end of MGW?

jl777

Re: Is this the end of MGW?

jl777

Re: Is this the end of MGW?

Tosch110

Re: Is this the end of MGW?