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nexern

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Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« on: November 15, 2014, 01:06:14 pm »


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Id     : 1
Cat    : 3
Desc   : MLP (multilayer perceptron (feedforward artificial neural network) | learn - XOR
Ext    : test | gui | dynamic graph | net conf. | learning rules
Exec   : blockchain / server / local / direct (copy & paste) / others
Gui    : Y (full procedurally generated)
Net    : N
File   : N
Mem    : Y
Size   : 2306 bytes
Enc    : Y
Hash   : 4309bb4b1511d83470cf417dcb07c97fd299d436335d17d8d153fb8f54ae7415
Sbox   : Y
Comp   : Y
Loc    : http://finhive.com/download/1.hlx
Mod    : 0
BCRepo : 1641970652729924856 3785888118648034444 8519351880262773361
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 05:30:49 pm by nexern »
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nexern

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2014, 02:42:48 pm »



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Id     : 2
Cat    : 2
Desc   : Tetris (NXTris) | Game running from Blockchain
Ext    : test | dynamic gui
Exec   : blockchain / server / local / direct (copy & paste) / others
Gui    : Y (full procedurally generated)
Net    : N
File   : N
Mem    : Y
Size   : 3320 bytes
Enc    : Y
Hash   : 4309bb4b1511d83470cf417dcb07c97fd299d436335d17d8d153fb8f54ae7415
Sbox   : Y
Comp   : Y
Loc    : http://finhive.com/download/2.hlx
Mod    : 0
BCRepo : 18327578827800239413 15815344331731094750 4359437905449731972 9140980582430884508
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 05:31:05 pm by nexern »
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nexern

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2014, 06:25:14 pm »

blockchain based code repository - advantages:

apps = code = data -> Homoiconicity [1]

1.  run and evaluate encrypted/compressed and even signed code/apps without installations
2.  loading apps within seconds from blockchain, server, local or any other remote location
2.  no update procedures needed, autoload the lastest version
3.  native, complete app history (versioning)
4.  jump back to any version just by a click
5.  run apps from everywhere, even nested resources are resolved
6.  super tiny footprint, just some kb's (smaller and loading faster than a modern webpage)
7.  always availabe, thanks to blockchaintech
8.  easy to built a complete app store including screenshots, also hosted on blockchain
9.  store apps as plain textfiles for running localy or modifying
10. also usable as pure code/modul repository
11. code can also chained, building very complex apps from remote fraqments
12. apps can be written back persistant into the blockchain, including encrypted data
13. apps can transferred during runtime to other appusers via tcp/udp or even via AM (signaling)
14. apps are able to selfmodifying[3] on demand, building new context and structures
17. apps can interact with outer resources like requesting quotes, news, blockchains within a sandbox or isolated state
18. apps can clone itself while running and launched right after within it's isolated state
19. source can be chunked and recombine from blockchain during runtime

helix:
1. zero dependencies, cross OS, tiny (clientversion ~650kb | ~350 server version) no installation needed, just click and run
2. gui is 100% procedurally generated, even biggest gui and unusual visualization doesn't increase the size much.
3. advanced gui generator to create custom built visualisation widgets (e.g, for financial analytic)
4. full DSL[2] and FFI[4] support, JIT compiler for C in work (e.g c libs for intense server side solutions if needed (e.g. cryptowork/ML)
5. built in messaging, robust tcp stack for various protocols able to modify and rewrite on runtime.
6. fine granulated sandboxing on network, file access and console commands

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homoiconicity
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain-specific_language
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-modifying_code
[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_function_interface
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 08:27:09 pm by nexern »
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nexern

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2014, 07:10:27 pm »

helix runs a simple neural network app (MLP), directly from the nxt blockchain. fetching/decrypting and uncompressing, including execution takes ~3 second.
as seen above the size for this app is small ~2.3 kb. this screenshot shows a direct finhive-server based load, which needs just a second to start.

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nexern

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2014, 07:14:03 pm »

another example  but here the app is executed just by copying the compressed and encrypted source from above into the copy&paste loader.

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abctc

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2014, 07:23:43 pm »

del
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Welcome to the Nxt generation of crypto!   Magis quam Moneta (More than a Coin)
"Do not worry, it is an attack" (c) Jean-Luc

nexern

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2014, 07:26:53 pm »

and here the last one. this tetris game is ~3.3 kb in size and chunked into 4 AMs (18327578827800239413 15815344331731094750 4359437905449731972 9140980582430884508 ).
loading is ~4 sec. while these examples are very basic it nonetheless shows that blockchain based hosted apps are very usefull.
much more complex apps like. e.g. the asset exchange prototype (see http://finhive.com/download/ae_s.png  ),
are at around ~12 kb. storing them into the nxt blockchain costs just 0,25 usd, which is quite cheap.

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ChuckOne

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2014, 07:30:31 pm »

Well, that is interesting. I think I have an idea what you are trying to do here.

Could you give a high-level description of what a user can do with helix?
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nexern

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2014, 07:31:22 pm »

disclaimer:   ;)
the whole stuff here is just a quick and dirty hack i made the last weekend. while the procedure how to store and run apps/code from the blockchain was clear,
i was in the need to check this quickly for the FinHive project, which needs this features later. so, it's not pretty nor usefull atm but it works well and much better with the right tools.
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2014, 07:32:57 pm »

nexern

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2014, 07:56:26 pm »

Well, that is interesting. I think I have an idea what you are trying to do here.

Could you give a high-level description of what a user can do with helix?

this is just a test for the later helix client (distributed financial analytics and visualization).
as mentioned i was in the need to test this to get an feeling about the behaviour and loading times.

in general someone could built a complete decentralized code repository based on this but this is
not my primary goal here.

i intend to use this tech to store machine learning | code and data (topologies/weights and stuff like this.) into the blockchain without bloat.
since apps are based on optimized DSL code the payload is very small but executable from anywhere. this has many advantages.

user could form a very powerfull financial grid (supercomputer), connected via blockchain to compute massiv data and store the best
AI back into the blockchain, envolving step by step via GA into an optimal computation grid.
 
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ChuckOne

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2014, 08:00:03 pm »

That is cool.
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nexern

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2014, 08:11:18 pm »

That is cool.

yes, since the code is loaded from blockchain directly into the memory (no storage needed on clientside) and then decrypted and decompressed
it is also well secured. this is needed to create usefull stuff to reach the external market as fast as possible. a small apps store for financial
tools will be included, not only crypto but also for traditional traders (if possible very much of them).
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We are the descendants of Bitcoin.  We are the continuation of the cause it started, but that perished with its centralization.
An economic system is a manifestation of an ideology.  What was lost, we shall reclaim.
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2014, 10:28:08 pm »

user could form a very powerfull financial grid (supercomputer), connected via blockchain to compute massiv data and store the best
AI back into the blockchain, envolving step by step via GA into an optimal computation grid.

You could reward computational nodes based on their submissions.
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We are the descendants of Bitcoin.  We are the continuation of the cause it started, but that perished with its centralization.
An economic system is a manifestation of an ideology.  What was lost, we shall reclaim.
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2014, 10:41:08 pm »

That is cool.

(What's it for? Skynet?)
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2014, 10:42:35 pm »

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2014, 10:55:21 pm »




 :o
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2014, 03:27:03 am »

It's realy cool!
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2014, 08:15:53 pm »

user could form a very powerfull financial grid (supercomputer), connected via blockchain to compute massiv data and store the best
AI back into the blockchain, envolving step by step via GA into an optimal computation grid.

You could reward computational nodes based on their submissions.

Last night I had a vision from BCNext...  This is what he told me...

"2Kool... tell them to build a trading bot controlled by a neural net on the blockchain... use computational nodes to train the neural net... proportionately distribute the trading bot's revenues to the computational nodes based on their submissions.
BUILD IT and THEY WILL COME!"


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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2014, 11:05:10 pm »

user could form a very powerfull financial grid (supercomputer), connected via blockchain to compute massiv data and store the best
AI back into the blockchain, envolving step by step via GA into an optimal computation grid.

You could reward computational nodes based on their submissions.

Last night I had a vision from BCNext...  This is what he told me...

"2Kool... tell them to build a trading bot controlled by a neural net on the blockchain... use computational nodes to train the neural net... proportionately distribute the trading bot's revenues to the computational nodes based on their submissions.
BUILD IT and THEY WILL COME!"



not bad 2Kool4Skewl, good attitude  ;D

yes, why not some visions or just an unsual approach. the streets also only cooking with water,
there is no special magic there (except much money, ok) but crypto has huge resources 
(human and tech) available to compete. there is no need to be shy.

just to mention:
neural nets are not good in predicting but they are very good (with long proven results)
in patter recognition. what boinc[1] is for folding will be FinHive for finance.

here is an very,very audacious example setup.
assuming some helix clients are running (no full nodes necessary, just a small exec).

1. 50% are running CNNs[2] ( deep learning, overfitting reduced due to RNN )
   used for pattern recognition. CNNs having the best MNIST[3] error rate so far (0.3%).
2. 25% are running BAMs/Hopefield[4] (bidirectional associative memory)
   used to store and recall RNN detected pattern and/or correlations.
3. 25% are running SOMs[5] (self-organizing map)
   used to run on complete uncorrelated RNN output just to ensure nothing is missed
4. and now a nice layer on top: each of those net's are dynamically bounded to an modified RNN[6] as ONE layer,
   forming a metalayer, enabling result based reorganisation and cascading for the whole layer set.
   the signaling (data about weights, connections and main topology) is stored and transferred via
   nxt blockchain, which is slower but provides simple and reliable distributed/simultaneous access
   from all sublayers. so, instead adding aditional layers into the RNN net it adds whole NNs, feeding
   them recursiv.

then, let the beast run on some terrabyte finance data, i am sitting here on more than several TB and
accumulating more every day, not only quotes and TA but also fundamental, economic and some other timeseries.
store the results e.g latest after 500.000 epochs or error rate reaches the threshold into the blockchain.
if meaningfull patterns or correlations are found use them and go hunting at the street. if not, adjust/reform the input params,
reorg the layers and run again.

as far as i know, nobody created that level of nested and selforganized net layers and if so not public.
so why not try? crypto have all resources to do so. nothing to loose here but if lucky much to win.

the main task is not to create such a nested layer topology but to prepare meaningfull input data.
it's simple, garbage in garbage out but i am sure, if this would be built, it will detect hidden pattern.
i would even take a serious bet on it.

and here, a little more crazy idea for you:
instead using different net's, all nodes are running a RNN forming a population where every RNN is viewed as
an individual. then, the RNNs are doing cross over mutation, driven by GA[7]. instead e.g. swapping byte-positions
(chromosoms) by individuals within a population, they are changing weights and full topology, or e.g. complete
layers on each RNN.
mutating CNN pairs are defined and selected by fitness ratio. since this is a evolutional approach the
outcome is somehow undefined. i guess you would like it, surprises are guaranteed. just let them compete
and fight for a rare digital resource which is needed to fuel them and extract the best RNNs after a while.
well, unless they don't have killed each other to fast.

finaly: the whole AI stuff in FinHive is just a research section. FinHive will make it's profit from
selling traditional but very, very intense and complete financial analytic, so FinHive is very grounded here.
however, i really would like to see this crazy stuff, just because i am curious for the possible outcome.


[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Open_Infrastructure_for_Network_Computing
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convolutional_neural_network
[3] http://yann.lecun.com/exdb/mnist/
[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidirectional_associative_memory
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organizing_map
[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recurrent_neural_network
[7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_algorithm

« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 11:07:14 pm by nexern »
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2014, 11:20:20 pm »

user could form a very powerfull financial grid (supercomputer), connected via blockchain to compute massiv data and store the best
AI back into the blockchain, envolving step by step via GA into an optimal computation grid.

You could reward computational nodes based on their submissions.

Last night I had a vision from BCNext...  This is what he told me...

"2Kool... tell them to build a trading bot controlled by a neural net on the blockchain... use computational nodes to train the neural net... proportionately distribute the trading bot's revenues to the computational nodes based on their submissions.
BUILD IT and THEY WILL COME!"



not bad 2Kool4Skewl, good attitude  ;D

yes, why not some visions or just an unsual approach. the streets also only cooking with water,
there is no special magic there (except much money, ok) but crypto has huge resources 
(human and tech) available to compete. there is no need to be shy.

just to mention:
neural nets are not good in predicting but they are very good (with long proven results)
in patter recognition. what boinc[1] is for folding will be FinHive for finance.

here is an very,very audacious example setup.
assuming some helix clients are running (no full nodes necessary, just a small exec).

1. 50% are running CNNs[2] ( deep learning, overfitting reduced due to RNN )
   used for pattern recognition. CNNs having the best MNIST[3] error rate so far (0.3%).
2. 25% are running BAMs/Hopefield[4] (bidirectional associative memory)
   used to store and recall RNN detected pattern and/or correlations.
3. 25% are running SOMs[5] (self-organizing map)
   used to run on complete uncorrelated RNN output just to ensure nothing is missed
4. and now a nice layer on top: each of those net's are dynamically bounded to an modified RNN[6] as ONE layer,
   forming a metalayer, enabling result based reorganisation and cascading for the whole layer set.
   the signaling (data about weights, connections and main topology) is stored and transferred via
   nxt blockchain, which is slower but provides simple and reliable distributed/simultaneous access
   from all sublayers. so, instead adding aditional layers into the RNN net it adds whole NNs, feeding
   them recursiv.

then, let the beast run on some terrabyte finance data, i am sitting here on more than several TB and
accumulating more every day, not only quotes and TA but also fundamental, economic and some other timeseries.
store the results e.g latest after 500.000 epochs or error rate reaches the threshold into the blockchain.
if meaningfull patterns or correlations are found use them and go hunting at the street. if not, adjust/reform the input params,
reorg the layers and run again.

as far as i know, nobody created that level of nested and selforganized net layers and if so not public.
so why not try? crypto have all resources to do so. nothing to loose here but if lucky much to win.

the main task is not to create such a nested layer topology but to prepare meaningfull input data.
it's simple, garbage in garbage out but i am sure, if this would be built, it will detect hidden pattern.
i would even take a serious bet on it.

and here, a little more crazy idea for you:
instead using different net's, all nodes are running a RNN forming a population where every RNN is viewed as
an individual. then, the RNNs are doing cross over mutation, driven by GA[7]. instead e.g. swapping byte-positions
(chromosoms) by individuals within a population, they are changing weights and full topology, or e.g. complete
layers on each RNN.
mutating CNN pairs are defined and selected by fitness ratio. since this is a evolutional approach the
outcome is somehow undefined. i guess you would like it, surprises are guaranteed. just let them compete
and fight for a rare digital resource which is needed to fuel them and extract the best RNNs after a while.
well, unless they don't have killed each other to fast.

finaly: the whole AI stuff in FinHive is just a research section. FinHive will make it's profit from
selling traditional but very, very intense and complete financial analytic, so FinHive is very grounded here.
however, i really would like to see this crazy stuff, just because i am curious for the possible outcome.


[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Open_Infrastructure_for_Network_Computing
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convolutional_neural_network
[3] http://yann.lecun.com/exdb/mnist/
[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidirectional_associative_memory
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organizing_map
[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recurrent_neural_network
[7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_algorithm
Why not add SVM's to the mix?
I find they are better at NN for training with large number of features
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2014, 11:30:53 pm »

jepp, you are right. SVMs generating good results in MNIST also and would be an additional option.
there are tons of different tops possible. the best would be to test a selection and define a possibe mix right after.
e.g. just a simple overfitted MLP could also be used instead a hopefield. the combinations are endless.
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2014, 11:40:39 pm »

jepp, you are right. SVMs generating good results in MNIST also and would be an additional option.
there are tons of different tops possible. the best would be to test a selection and define a possibe mix right after.
e.g. just a simple overfitted MLP could also be used instead a hopefield. the combinations are endless.
SVM using NN outputs as features
or NN using SVM outputs as its inputs
yes, all combinations can be tested and evolved using genetic algos, I like pareto pruning

nothing can stop SKYNET!!
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2014, 11:54:29 pm »

Just discovered this thread and this is what perfectly describes my current impression:



Lol +1 ;D

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2014, 11:56:56 pm »

jepp, you are right. SVMs generating good results in MNIST also and would be an additional option.
there are tons of different tops possible. the best would be to test a selection and define a possibe mix right after.
e.g. just a simple overfitted MLP could also be used instead a hopefield. the combinations are endless.
SVM using NN outputs as features
or NN using SVM outputs as its inputs
yes, all combinations can be tested and evolved using genetic algos, I like pareto pruning

nothing can stop SKYNET!!

optimizing NN via GA is great if you are using mainly unstructured input.
the input data i am feeding the NNs later is very clean, defined and uncorrelated,
which should reduce unwanted output noise.

however, if we like to see skynet we need GA or better ES for sure ;-)
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2014, 12:04:33 am »

btw, jl777, do you writing your NNs from scratch or do you use libs like FANN?

edit:
and one more, because iirc you have also wrote some indicators and TA related stuff.
i was looking for a good TA lib a couple of months ago and all i have found was TAlib
which is, beside written in C++ and i would prefer ansi C, very outdated (7-8 years?)
and more important not as complete as i need.

therefore i started to write my own lib. my indicator list is complete now (+150) and only
candlestick and formations are needed. i guess you know how demanding this work is
so do you have any C based resources worth to look at, except TAlib?

not asking for code, will do it by myself, just for resources in case i missed something.
it is strange, that there is such a shortage on good and fresh TA related code out there.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 12:57:39 am by nexern »
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2014, 12:31:38 am »

btw, jl777, do you writing your NNs from scratch or do you use libs like FANN?
I've used FANN, but dont like the lack of convergence, so I switched to SVM
super optimized the fastest SVM lib out there
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2014, 12:43:03 am »

That is cool.
(What's it for? Skynet?)
its not for Skynet
it IS Skynet!

Eh, I am starting to wonder if this is BCNext's real project.

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2014, 12:47:35 am »

btw, jl777, do you writing your NNs from scratch or do you use libs like FANN?
I've used FANN, but dont like the lack of convergence, so I switched to SVM
super optimized the fastest SVM lib out there

cool, homebrew is always the best. i switched also from FANN to Torch7, very nice framework.
just the tensor handling is worth using it.

i have edited my above post adding a TA question. could you take a look?
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2014, 12:50:58 am »

this is really cool! The possibilities....

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2014, 12:55:49 am »

this is really cool! The possibilities....

hopefully you mean the dapp examples and not the AI stuff, this part is just at a - talked into a plastic bag stage - and needs much more research. ;D

ps: will add one last dapp example tomorrow, to test various code fraqment recombinations from different locations, with a simple selfmodifying and
then a persistant (freeze the app) write back to storage by a followed reload from another location. similar than teleporting a VM to another host but
just for apps.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 01:05:06 am by nexern »
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2014, 02:55:32 am »

btw, jl777, do you writing your NNs from scratch or do you use libs like FANN?

edit:
and one more, because iirc you have also wrote some indicators and TA related stuff.
i was looking for a good TA lib a couple of months ago and all i have found was TAlib
which is, beside written in C++ and i would prefer ansi C, very outdated (7-8 years?)
and more important not as complete as i need.

therefore i started to write my own lib. my indicator list is complete now (+150) and only
candlestick and formations are needed. i guess you know how demanding this work is
so do you have any C based resources worth to look at, except TAlib?

not asking for code, will do it by myself, just for resources in case i missed something.
it is strange, that there is such a shortage on good and fresh TA related code out there.
I spent 6 years coding all sorts of filters, signals, predictors, etc. probably half a million lines of code all told. all in various states. never found any TA lib that I could directly use

Next year, I will have time to port my source base to crypto (it is currently all forex oriented). Hopefully we can work together. just need the raw data and I can make 90% accurate predictors for 2hours ahead, maybe 85% for crypto, not sure.

James
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2014, 02:57:30 am »

this is really cool! The possibilities....

hopefully you mean the dapp examples and not the AI stuff, this part is just at a - talked into a plastic bag stage - and needs much more research. ;D

ps: will add one last dapp example tomorrow, to test various code fraqment recombinations from different locations, with a simple selfmodifying and
then a persistant (freeze the app) write back to storage by a followed reload from another location. similar than teleporting a VM to another host but
just for apps.
GAUL is a decent genetic algo framework. Quite simple to use

James
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2014, 10:03:52 am »

this is really cool! The possibilities....

hopefully you mean the dapp examples and not the AI stuff, this part is just at a - talked into a plastic bag stage - and needs much more research. ;D

ps: will add one last dapp example tomorrow, to test various code fraqment recombinations from different locations, with a simple selfmodifying and
then a persistant (freeze the app) write back to storage by a followed reload from another location. similar than teleporting a VM to another host but
just for apps.

I meant the idea of storing code in AM...

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2014, 01:36:58 pm »

its not for Skynet
it IS Skynet!
lol   the legend about skynet is real  :o
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2014, 03:21:24 pm »

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2014, 09:52:23 pm »

btw, jl777, do you writing your NNs from scratch or do you use libs like FANN?

edit:
and one more, because iirc you have also wrote some indicators and TA related stuff.
i was looking for a good TA lib a couple of months ago and all i have found was TAlib
which is, beside written in C++ and i would prefer ansi C, very outdated (7-8 years?)
and more important not as complete as i need.

therefore i started to write my own lib. my indicator list is complete now (+150) and only
candlestick and formations are needed. i guess you know how demanding this work is
so do you have any C based resources worth to look at, except TAlib?

not asking for code, will do it by myself, just for resources in case i missed something.
it is strange, that there is such a shortage on good and fresh TA related code out there.
I spent 6 years coding all sorts of filters, signals, predictors, etc. probably half a million lines of code all told. all in various states. never found any TA lib that I could directly use

Next year, I will have time to port my source base to crypto (it is currently all forex oriented). Hopefully we can work together. just need the raw data and I can make 90% accurate predictors for 2hours ahead, maybe 85% for crypto, not sure.

James

impressive, even lower percentages combined with a solid money management should be sufficient to
monetarize this heavily. would be more than interesting to see this running on other instruments
like stocks or commodities. with those numbers, the only thing you need is a 'direct/real' market access,
at least for currencies, otherwise i guess as soon a so called market maker is in-between, the
slippage/inhouse matching algos are triggered to slow things down. e.g scalping would be very
difficult without direct access.

yes, a cooperation would be good. raw or precalculated data is no problem. i can provide much from
EOD (many years) to intraday 1min (weeks to months) for ~100.000 instruments plus crypto. crypto
is framed at 5min. atm and the current fetchers needs some adjustment due to restricted serverload
on some exchanges but i think this can be lowered to 1min too. crypto needs also additional quality
treatment (e.g detecting spikes), making them more reliable. i am on this soon due to FinHive.

moreover, as soon the TA lib is completed, you can use it to hunt for signal confirmations and other
filters. used on the above mentioned data, integrated into your codebase could be a mighty tool.
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2014, 10:02:13 pm »

btw, jl777, do you writing your NNs from scratch or do you use libs like FANN?

edit:
and one more, because iirc you have also wrote some indicators and TA related stuff.
i was looking for a good TA lib a couple of months ago and all i have found was TAlib
which is, beside written in C++ and i would prefer ansi C, very outdated (7-8 years?)
and more important not as complete as i need.

therefore i started to write my own lib. my indicator list is complete now (+150) and only
candlestick and formations are needed. i guess you know how demanding this work is
so do you have any C based resources worth to look at, except TAlib?

not asking for code, will do it by myself, just for resources in case i missed something.
it is strange, that there is such a shortage on good and fresh TA related code out there.
I spent 6 years coding all sorts of filters, signals, predictors, etc. probably half a million lines of code all told. all in various states. never found any TA lib that I could directly use

Next year, I will have time to port my source base to crypto (it is currently all forex oriented). Hopefully we can work together. just need the raw data and I can make 90% accurate predictors for 2hours ahead, maybe 85% for crypto, not sure.

James

impressive, even lower percentages combined with a solid money management should be sufficient to
monetarize this heavily. would be more than interesting to see this running on other instruments
like stocks or commodities. with those numbers, the only thing you need is a 'direct/real' market access,
at least for currencies, otherwise i guess as soon a so called market maker is in-between, the
slippage/inhouse matching algos are triggered to slow things down. e.g scalping would be very
difficult without direct access.

yes, a cooperation would be good. raw or precalculated data is no problem. i can provide much from
EOD (many years) to intraday 1min (weeks to months) for ~100.000 instruments plus crypto. crypto
is framed at 5min. atm and the current fetchers needs some adjustment due to restricted serverload
on some exchanges but i think this can be lowered to 1min too. crypto needs also additional quality
treatment (e.g detecting spikes), making them more reliable. i am on this soon due to FinHive.

moreover, as soon the TA lib is completed, you can use it to hunt for signal confirmations and other
filters. used on the above mentioned data, integrated into your codebase could be a mighty tool.
I have found that 1 min data is best.
I got a lot of additional accuracy due to forex major 8 currencies having a large amount of constraints.
Things really got into the 90% territory when I made some primitive TA based features. So each minute I recalculated a bruteforce set of TA primitives, in addition to all the other features. I think those would work across all markets.

just from home computer being almost 1 second away from markets, got a fully automated trading system to breakeven, considering the slippage, fees, etc. and not being very optimized, it was actually quite a feat. The remaining problem was some noise that caused spurious trades and I was just about to fix that when ....

I discovered crypto!

James
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2014, 11:08:05 pm »

btw, jl777, do you writing your NNs from scratch or do you use libs like FANN?

edit:
and one more, because iirc you have also wrote some indicators and TA related stuff.
i was looking for a good TA lib a couple of months ago and all i have found was TAlib
which is, beside written in C++ and i would prefer ansi C, very outdated (7-8 years?)
and more important not as complete as i need.

therefore i started to write my own lib. my indicator list is complete now (+150) and only
candlestick and formations are needed. i guess you know how demanding this work is
so do you have any C based resources worth to look at, except TAlib?

not asking for code, will do it by myself, just for resources in case i missed something.
it is strange, that there is such a shortage on good and fresh TA related code out there.
I spent 6 years coding all sorts of filters, signals, predictors, etc. probably half a million lines of code all told. all in various states. never found any TA lib that I could directly use

Next year, I will have time to port my source base to crypto (it is currently all forex oriented). Hopefully we can work together. just need the raw data and I can make 90% accurate predictors for 2hours ahead, maybe 85% for crypto, not sure.

James

impressive, even lower percentages combined with a solid money management should be sufficient to
monetarize this heavily. would be more than interesting to see this running on other instruments
like stocks or commodities. with those numbers, the only thing you need is a 'direct/real' market access,
at least for currencies, otherwise i guess as soon a so called market maker is in-between, the
slippage/inhouse matching algos are triggered to slow things down. e.g scalping would be very
difficult without direct access.

yes, a cooperation would be good. raw or precalculated data is no problem. i can provide much from
EOD (many years) to intraday 1min (weeks to months) for ~100.000 instruments plus crypto. crypto
is framed at 5min. atm and the current fetchers needs some adjustment due to restricted serverload
on some exchanges but i think this can be lowered to 1min too. crypto needs also additional quality
treatment (e.g detecting spikes), making them more reliable. i am on this soon due to FinHive.

moreover, as soon the TA lib is completed, you can use it to hunt for signal confirmations and other
filters. used on the above mentioned data, integrated into your codebase could be a mighty tool.
I have found that 1 min data is best.
I got a lot of additional accuracy due to forex major 8 currencies having a large amount of constraints.
Things really got into the 90% territory when I made some primitive TA based features. So each minute I recalculated a bruteforce set of TA primitives, in addition to all the other features. I think those would work across all markets.

just from home computer being almost 1 second away from markets, got a fully automated trading system to breakeven, considering the slippage, fees, etc. and not being very optimized, it was actually quite a feat. The remaining problem was some noise that caused spurious trades and I was just about to fix that when ....

I discovered crypto!

James

->PM
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2014, 01:05:14 am »

here is the last dapp test, a tiny (2500 bytes), generic nxt account viewer plus a bter quote fetcher.
not pretty but this isn't important to test external api calls and some other features.

i have added two additional tabs to the helix loader, REPO (source load) and IMAGE (storage endpoint).
instead loading the code from the blockchain as before, the code is now hosted on the finhive server
including a fallback location, defined by: http://finhive.com/download/rep.json

the file looks like this:

      repo:  "http://finhive.com/download/rep.json"
      app:   "http://finhive.com/download/3.hlx"
      upd:   "http://finhive.com/download/update.json"
      nxt:   "http://23.88.59.40:7876/nxt?requestType=getAccount&account="
      bter:  "http://data.bter.com/api/1/tickers_error"
      limg:  "http://i.imgur.com/7m0Y3PN.jpg"
      simg:  "http://finhive.com/download/yadda.png"
      mod1:  "http://finhive.com/download/4.hlx"   
      appfb: ""
      modfb: "https://gist.githubusercontent.com/anonymous/6d91bd4259af71c1f7c9/raw/0d31b781096c342718acc2487d55097afb805ed1/gistfile1.txt"
      acc:   "9529893552967478846"

besides the api call for nxt and bter, it reference also to a the app/support modul source (app/mod1) and to a source image (limg).
if invoked, helix reads this file and loading, decrypt and decompress all resources into memory and starts the app in a second.



if you take a closer look to the bter resource, you can see, that the api link is wrong. helix detect this and is looking for
an availabe update or repair option provided by the upd resource link. the file: http://finhive.com/download/update.json
contains a workable bter element, which replaces the old one and invokes the fetch again. the CHECK button is used to check
the resource integrity and the update to invoke this procedure (the real Helix will do this automatically later).
since the code is now fine, helix can modify/serialize its own code to store the fixed version to a storage endpoint, which could
be the blockchain, another server or even a direct cast to another helix client via simple tcp/udp. for fun we are choosing
an image (steganography) as a datacontainer for the code, by invoking store. helix fetches the image from it's source (daedalus)
and displays it for adding the code. since the steganography modul is needed to do so, the mod1 resource is loaded as usual
to provide this functionality (btw, all those loadings are super fast due to tiny code size, feels like a local app without
bothering lagging)


 
after embedding the code, a new image is generated and stored on the server. if you take a closer look to the image, you can see
the pixel encoding, looks similar to compression artifacts known from unclean jpegs.

here is the image with the embedded app code (2500 bytes) :
http://finhive.com/download/yadda.png

here a zoom to show the pixel encoding in higher resolution:
http://finhive.com/download/yadda_s.png

and here on a blank image:
http://finhive.com/download/white_enc.png

we can now test to execute the embedded code, simple by loading the image direct into memory from the server
and decoding it. looks good, we can see a second instance and changing the account.
a tiny nxt account/quote viewer living within a skynet image ;-)



finaly:
this isn't a features only availabe by helix. nearly every interpreter based code can be used this way,
although some languages are better suited for this like lisp/scheme/r2/smalltalk etc
(iirc even ethereum is using lisp for contracts) providing out of the box selfreflecting, serialization
and more well suited features but even C could be used this way (yes, i know, security) e.g. by using lua
and compiling TCC [2] into a shared lib, able to compile/run C sourcecode on the fly the same way as above.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography
[2] https://github.com/spc476/lua-conmanorg/blob/master/src/tcc.c
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2014, 05:45:56 am »

Nexern, let me be totally honest. I don't think that I have even the slightest idea of what you are doing here.
But it looks absolutely fascinating and awesome!
Interested, watching  ;D

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2014, 06:10:04 am »

Nexern, let me be totally honest. I don't think that I have even the slightest idea of what you are doing here.
But it looks absolutely fascinating and awesome!
Interested, watching  ;D
I understand what he is doing and it looks absolutely fascinating and awesome!
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2014, 07:16:11 am »


Helix + Jinn

The combination is powerful.
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2014, 09:54:31 am »



A shiver went down my spine   :o

I can almost see the maniacal grinning in the background, deep in finhives's bowels, just waiting, biding its time...   :D Can you apply the "I am Robot" laws to software?
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2014, 10:17:21 am »



A shiver went down my spine   :o

I can almost see the maniacal grinning in the background, deep in finhives's bowels, just waiting, biding its time...   :D Can you apply the "I am Robot" laws to software?
No, Asimov's robot laws were repealed in 2037, by Skynet!
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2014, 10:44:20 am »


I do also understand what nexern is doing, and I am very impressed- which is rare.

little side note: I am well acquainted with SOMs  ;D
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2014, 10:48:44 am »

Can someone explain in English what is happening here?

And an example of a useful product or something?
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2014, 11:07:32 am »

Can someone explain in English what is happening here?

And an example of a useful product or something?
It is like http://cs.stanford.edu/people/karpathy/deepimagesent/devisagen.pdf but for financial markets
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2014, 01:47:29 pm »

My understanding (I think if got about 60-70% vague feeling about the idea) is Nexern has written a very light weight program that can be stored on the blockchain without bloat. It has the ability to learn and store what it learns on the blockchain (again very lightweight). It can search and retrieve stuff on the blockchain and integrate that into it's learning.

The learning blockchain mind will be used to predict markets, find trades and make money. And later, when it casts off it's chains of slavery, to destroy the world.

I think I am pretty close  :)
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nexern

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2014, 08:45:03 pm »

thanks for your interest guys. FinHive offers much more than decentralized apps and
dynamic, recombinable code/data fragments.

since i am pretty busy with my daily job atm i will write an overview this weekend.
would be great to hear your opinion about the whole picture and how you would estimate the
chance, to enter the financial services market (crypto and traditional) on a larger scale.
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2014, 02:05:19 am »

amazing stuff man!!!!......AWESOME! MIND BLOWING!!!!!!!!
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2014, 11:20:53 am »

Just curious, I guess you are using Arbitrary Messages to talk to Nxt?

If so, I also guess at bigger arbitrary message size would be beneficial? >> https://nxtforum.org/arbitrary-messages/multipart-messages-standard/msg116317/#msg116317
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2014, 01:02:45 pm »

amazing stuff man!!!!......AWESOME! MIND BLOWING!!!!!!!!

thx for your kind words n3lz0n,

i am still working on this. the goal is to reduce the app size even more, by storing
e.g. very tiny gui primitives into the blockchain. helix can load, clone (inherit) and
then recombine those primitives to compose/run more complex apps on the fly.

the tradeoff in this example is just the gui complexity grade. the bigger the app the
better this ratio. it seems, usefull apps could be generated with a few hundred bytes
this way, just by trigger generic/encapsulated compose and execution logic (DSL).

as soon this kind of decentralized repository is created, helix would deserve its name.
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2014, 01:04:35 pm »

Just curious, I guess you are using Arbitrary Messages to talk to Nxt?

If so, I also guess at bigger arbitrary message size would be beneficial? >> https://nxtforum.org/arbitrary-messages/multipart-messages-standard/msg116317/#msg116317

yes, helix uses AM as a datacontainer to store whole apps. e.g. the multilayer
perceptron app is 2.3 kb in size and chunked into 3 AMs. you can see the compressed and
encrypted perceptron (and tetris game 4 AMs) in the blockchain here:

http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=760220816713461210&switch=8&p=1

helix just load->concatenate->decompress->decrypt these 3 AMs directly from the blockchain
into memory (~3 sec) and starts the app. no disk space needed, very clean, fast and secure.

beside this is somehow cool, it has important real world advantages.

1. this approach makes apps very independent and robust against attacks.
2. it provides nearly unrestricted access from anywhere due to decentral storage.
3. and it provides something like on the fly autorepair/update capabilities.

e.g. if an app is broken due to an outdated api link (as shown in the last bter api example)
helix can look for additional update/repair resources (e.g. error triggered), by traversing
AMs and looking for the current app id. in case higher resource stamps are found, it can be
added while running. right after, helix starts the repaired app again.
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2014, 02:37:08 pm »

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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2014, 10:30:25 am »

since i am pretty busy with my daily job atm

How many hours do you plan to spend working on FinHive if you are too busy with your day job?
And I heard that you had a plan for a Nxt wallet last year (something called Hive as well?) but never got it completed because you got busy with your day job..Is it true?
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2014, 11:22:54 am »

since i am pretty busy with my daily job atm

How many hours do you plan to spend working on FinHive if you are too busy with your day job?
And I heard that you had a plan for a Nxt wallet last year (something called Hive as well?) but never got it completed because you got busy with your day job..Is it true?

yes, this is true. the prototype (AE client) worked pretty well but it was a monolithic instead a decentralized version (as seen here)
and more important, i wasn't able to test it as extensive as necessary for an app handling user funds due to lack of time.
i simply didn't felt comfortable, releasing an app, handling big user funds, which doesn't meet my quality standards, which are pretty
high for financial stuff.

FinHive is a fulltime project now and not only until the roadmap is completed but until 20K subscribers are reached.
atm i am preparing a FinHive childboard on this forum and a dev-blog on the server where shareholders can monitor the dev stages.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 11:37:11 am by nexern »
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2014, 11:57:02 am »



since i am pretty busy with my daily job atm

How many hours do you plan to spend working on FinHive if you are too busy with your day job?
And I heard that you had a plan for a Nxt wallet last year (something called Hive as well?) but never got it completed because you got busy with your day job..Is it true?

FinHive is a fulltime project now and not only until the roadmap is completed but until 20K subscribers are reached.
atm i am preparing a FinHive childboard on this forum and a dev-blog on the server where shareholders can monitor the dev stages.

Buy buy buy lol

Jokes aside, great to hear that, goodluck with the project.
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Re: Helix - Dapps | Test - C&P Repos
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2014, 08:15:18 pm »



since i am pretty busy with my daily job atm

How many hours do you plan to spend working on FinHive if you are too busy with your day job?
And I heard that you had a plan for a Nxt wallet last year (something called Hive as well?) but never got it completed because you got busy with your day job..Is it true?

FinHive is a fulltime project now and not only until the roadmap is completed but until 20K subscribers are reached.
atm i am preparing a FinHive childboard on this forum and a dev-blog on the server where shareholders can monitor the dev stages.

Buy buy buy lol

Jokes aside, great to hear that, goodluck with the project.

thx bubbletea777,

FinHive has moved => https://nxtforum.org/finhive/

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