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Finally Nxt-based decentralized pokergame info anouncement ETA 2 weeks  
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Author Topic: Finally Nxt-based decentralized pokergame info anouncement ETA 2 weeks  (Read 24688 times)

rdanneskjoldr

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I will definately follow this and try to test and help, and will make many professional online poker players try it.

What i see hard to solve is the collusion problem in p2p poker.Any thoughts of how would you handle that?If not it would never get huge,as it would be suicidal to play for money when people have freeway to do all kind of cheating.
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innovator256

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I will definately follow this and try to test and help, and will make many professional online poker players try it.

What i see hard to solve is the collusion problem in p2p poker.Any thoughts of how would you handle that?If not it would never get huge,as it would be suicidal to play for money when people have freeway to do all kind of cheating.

Its easy to solve issue of collusion by giving up some usability or convenience....the current solution is to randomize access to actual tables but give direct access to blinds categories/list... this is not perfect, but it works best when there are enough people on the network playing.

You can also rent private tables to play with friends, collusion is not a problem in this case unless you have really bad friends
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 04:26:26 pm by ola »
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CoinTropololis_JustaBit

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I will definately follow this and try to test and help, and will make many professional online poker players try it.

What i see hard to solve is the collusion problem in p2p poker.Any thoughts of how would you handle that?If not it would never get huge,as it would be suicidal to play for money when people have freeway to do all kind of cheating.

Its easy to solve issue of collusion by giving up some usability or convenience....the current solution is to randomize access to actual tables but give direct access to blinds categories/list... this is not perfect, but it works best when there are enough people on the network playing.

You can also rent private tables to play with friends, collusion is not a problem in this case unless you have really bad friends

Collusion detection at even the biggest poker sites is a complete joke. Like mentioned above, randomized access to tables at the same blind levels is probably the best you can do in a decentralized approach.

Conurtrol

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How do you think anonymity and randomization will stop collusion at higher stakes? There are fewer players and fewer tables so the cheaters are very likely to end up at the same tables and they can communicate through IM. With no security team in place it will be impossible to stop.
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CoinTropololis_JustaBit

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How do you think anonymity and randomization will stop collusion at higher stakes? There are fewer players and fewer tables so the cheaters are very likely to end up at the same tables and they can communicate through IM. With no security team in place it will be impossible to stop.

Collusion detection at known poker sites is much like the TSA, it's simply security theater. In a decentralized environment, it's virtually impossible. Here's what randomization does:

6 available tables at $100  n/l. You can't choose which table, simply the stake. The user is placed randomly at one of the tables. There would need to be a counter that prevents people from hopping tables for x amount of time. For private tables, like the poster mentioned above, you might need better friends if they are trying to cheat you.

Personally, I see Nxt poker a great opportunity to bring home games online (similar to poker stars). When it comes to high stakes (I play 2000 nl.. so the low end of high stakes), I stick to private games because of the real risk of collusion online. Even then, I'm cautious about playing in games with new faces. At higher levels, the pool is much smaller. You never eliminate it, your best bet it to mitigate.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 04:58:42 pm by CoinTropololis_JustaBit »
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Conurtrol

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I understand what randomization does. It is pretty much what Bovada/Bodog is doing. And you're right, it doesn't stop collusion. But a security team does help. At least it prevents a collusion free-for-all. The better sites, like PokerStars, actually have very good security and collusion detection. It also helps that people can't withdraw money instantly if there are suspicions about their play. This provides some time to review things and confiscate stolen money if necessary. As far as those 6 tables of 100Nl. If I sit at all 6 tables, and my partner(s) also sit at all six tables then it doesn't matter how random the process is, the result is the same. This issue needs some serious discussion before you open this site to the public.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 05:11:36 pm by Conurtrol »
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Conurtrol

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There is a downside to anonymity that I forgot to mention. The players themselves have discovered many of the worst online poker cheaters by examining hand histories of the suspects. If everyone is anonymous then the players can't keep track of what the suspect is doing.
I agree about this being a nice way to bring home games online. Maybe that should be the main focus, i.e. "Poker with Friends' or some such.
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megashira1

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I play poker professionally online and am willing to be a beta tester or help with questions and concerns or whatever.
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ppetrov

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I will definately follow this and try to test and help, and will make many professional online poker players try it.

What i see hard to solve is the collusion problem in p2p poker.Any thoughts of how would you handle that?If not it would never get huge,as it would be suicidal to play for money when people have freeway to do all kind of cheating.

You can also rent private tables to play with friends, collusion is not a problem in this case unless you have really bad friends

In theory, there is NO way to stop collusion.

(That is why in mathematics we do not analyze games with 3+ players: every mathematician knows there is no way to stop "coalitions" in such games)

Still, there IS a way to make games FAIR!  ;)

Simple: Just stick to HU tables!!  :D

I myself am professional poker player and I play a lot of HU cash. I am ready to play HU poker (mid stakes) even with someone like Ivey or Isildur, but NOT on PokerStars!

I definitely do not trust their RNG, nor do I trust their "anti-collusion" security measures.

PLEASE keep me involved with this project! GOOD LUCK!! 
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MyZhre

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Start from heads up maybe?
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innovator256

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I understand what randomization does. It is pretty much what Bovada/Bodog is doing. And you're right, it doesn't stop collusion. But a security team does help. At least it prevents a collusion free-for-all. The better sites, like PokerStars, actually have very good security and collusion detection. It also helps that people can't withdraw money instantly if there are suspicions about their play. This provides some time to review things and confiscate stolen money if necessary. As far as those 6 tables of 100Nl. If I sit at all 6 tables, and my partner(s) also sit at all six tables then it doesn't matter how random the process is, the result is the same. This issue needs some serious discussion before you open this site to the public.

You can't completely eradicate collusion, but you damn sure can limit it...you also assume that you will be able to sit at "6 concurrent" tables..this is will not be possible. Like I said in this case some usability or convenience are sacrificed, for example, one beneficial inconvenience is: you are only allowed to one table at any given time also, there are identification mechanisms to limit sock accounts. again this is not full proof, but dramatically decreases the potential for successful collusion sessions.

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innovator256

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There is a downside to anonymity that I forgot to mention. The players themselves have discovered many of the worst online poker cheaters by examining hand histories of the suspects. If everyone is anonymous then the players can't keep track of what the suspect is doing.
I agree about this being a nice way to bring home games online. Maybe that should be the main focus, i.e. "Poker with Friends' or some such.

again you are assuming...there is no anonymity within the network..everyone is pseudonymous within the network...i rather you wait for the release and technical specs before any wild speculation and theories...but feel free to continue to forward valid cconcerns

I play poker professionally online and am willing to be a beta tester or help with questions and concerns or whatever.

+

Start from heads up maybe?

HU and more, you can play only HU if you chose to
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 02:55:02 am by ola »
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CoinTropololis_JustaBit

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Yup, you'll never eradicate... you can simply mitigate. On the Bovada 1000 nl  6 max, the tables are anonymous and yet we are still willing to play because it's still +ev for some of us.  If there is collusion, it hasn't cut into the profitability enough to make the larger players leave. Personally,  I prefer slightly bigger games. At 2000-5000 nl, I'll stick to private games or the 'big games' at the casino once or twice  amonth because the money really starts to matter (to me).

Like most sites, most of the games are at the small stakes like 50-200nl. I don't see a problem with a decentralized anonymous approach personally, but that's for the free market to decide. Good luck, I can't wait to see it rolled out.



Conurtrol

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I understand what randomization does. It is pretty much what Bovada/Bodog is doing. And you're right, it doesn't stop collusion. But a security team does help. At least it prevents a collusion free-for-all. The better sites, like PokerStars, actually have very good security and collusion detection. It also helps that people can't withdraw money instantly if there are suspicions about their play. This provides some time to review things and confiscate stolen money if necessary. As far as those 6 tables of 100Nl. If I sit at all 6 tables, and my partner(s) also sit at all six tables then it doesn't matter how random the process is, the result is the same. This issue needs some serious discussion before you open this site to the public.


 
You can't completely eradicate collusion, but you damn sure can limit it...you also assume that you will be able to sit at "6 concurrent" tables..this is will not be possible. Like I said in this case some usability or convenience are sacrificed, for example, one beneficial inconvenience is: you are only allowed to one table at any given time also, there are identification mechanisms to limit sock accounts. again this is not full proof, but dramatically decreases the potential for successful collusion sessions.


 I've followed online poker closely for 6 years now. I've been playing online since 2008 and I've played millions of cumulative hands on at least a dozen sites. There is no market for a real money poker site that only lets you play one table at a time. I really think your time would be better spent on a sportsbook or a high quality online casino game experience. That's my opinion and I wish you luck no matter what you choose to do.
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elaborater

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really looking forward to this. looks promising
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innovator256

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I understand what randomization does. It is pretty much what Bovada/Bodog is doing. And you're right, it doesn't stop collusion. But a security team does help. At least it prevents a collusion free-for-all. The better sites, like PokerStars, actually have very good security and collusion detection. It also helps that people can't withdraw money instantly if there are suspicions about their play. This provides some time to review things and confiscate stolen money if necessary. As far as those 6 tables of 100Nl. If I sit at all 6 tables, and my partner(s) also sit at all six tables then it doesn't matter how random the process is, the result is the same. This issue needs some serious discussion before you open this site to the public.


 
You can't completely eradicate collusion, but you damn sure can limit it...you also assume that you will be able to sit at "6 concurrent" tables..this is will not be possible. Like I said in this case some usability or convenience are sacrificed, for example, one beneficial inconvenience is: you are only allowed to one table at any given time also, there are identification mechanisms to limit sock accounts. again this is not full proof, but dramatically decreases the potential for successful collusion sessions.


 I've followed online poker closely for 6 years now. I've been playing online since 2008 and I've played millions of cumulative hands on at least a dozen sites. There is no market for a real money poker site that only lets you play one table at a time. I really think your time would be better spent on a sportsbook or a high quality online casino game experience. That's my opinion and I wish you luck no matter what you choose to do.

Opinions are a dime a dozen, everyone is entitled to theirs..I have been a long time poker player also more than 10 years off and on..and I have seen no evidence to suggest that this little inconvenience would be a deal breaker for millions of poker players who can actually confirm provably fair conditions....also this is a new experiment, creating a new paradigm which might disrupt the old...too early to tell how it will be received

-This bigger question is since real money poker players are used to jumping through hoops with payments to fund games, will this same conditioning translate to using NXT as a means of play and if more are will, how easy is it going to be to grasp and immediately see the benefits. There are a lot of marketing / educational problems to be solved.

You are more than welcome to go build the "sportsbook or a high quality online casino game experience" rather than advising me to change course, that way the nxt community would have way more options..Anything other than taking the initiative to do so is just wasted typing and an incredible waste of time. More constructive or beneficial ideas to this current project would be appreciated.I would like to see what you come up with  ;)

really looking forward to this. looks promising
+
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 05:59:21 pm by ola »
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popolozo

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what about ETA?
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innovator256

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what about ETA?

I got sidetracked with other developments related to this project, there will be updates in the next couple of days...But I will release all That I have been working on by the 26th of may the latest, no matter how buggy.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 09:35:46 am by ola »
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rudeboi

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Looking forward to this, keep up the good work.

Never played online poker before, but would be interested in playing this
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game is always the most attractive,decentralized game,wow.
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