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Author Topic: Telegram  (Read 8067 times)

devlux

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Re: Telegram
April 09, 2016, 10:39:22 pm

I believe that Telegram encrypts messages end-to-end. I think Slack doesn't use encryption. So Slack is non a good choice for Nxt (= cryptoplatfom) plugin in my opinion. It seems that  among popular messengers only WhatsApp does end-to-end encryption. So I vote for Telegram or WhatsApp. In any case (including the absence of plugin) I will pay at least 5k NXT for devlux's  Telegram investigations.

If you want to do that, then I'll do them both, just as separate plugins.
The UI is the hard part (for me anyways) on Telegram Bot or Slackify. 
Once the UI work is done swapping the backend is not particularly difficult, especially if I use angular for it the whole thing.
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MrCluster87

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Re: Telegram
April 10, 2016, 07:07:04 am

Well, let's go with slack first then. Nothing will prevent us to do a Telegram porting later on.

A security article about WhatsApp: https://threatpost.com/whatsapp-encryption-a-good-start-but-far-from-a-security-cure-all/117230/

abctc

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Re: Telegram
April 10, 2016, 08:47:07 am

A security article about WhatsApp: https://threatpost.com/whatsapp-encryption-a-good-start-but-far-from-a-security-cure-all/117230/
- so? What exactly wrong with WhatsApp end-to-end encryption? The article says: "WhatsApp messages are secure in transit".

Re slack - personally I see no reason to implement non-encrypted public chat (not messenger) on cryptoplatform.
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lurker10

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Re: Telegram
April 10, 2016, 09:01:25 am

A security article about WhatsApp: https://threatpost.com/whatsapp-encryption-a-good-start-but-far-from-a-security-cure-all/117230/
- so? What exactly wrong with WhatsApp end-to-end encryption? The article says: "WhatsApp messages are secure in transit".

Re slack - personally I see no reason to implement non-encrypted public chat (not messenger) on cryptoplatform.

WhatsApp is not open-source, its encryption hasn't been audited.

For an open-source, audited encrypted messenger, check Signal by WhisperSystems.
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abctc

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Re: Telegram
April 10, 2016, 09:19:10 am

WhatsApp is not open-source, its encryption hasn't been audited.
For an open-source, audited encrypted messenger, check Signal by WhisperSystems.
- hmmm.. that article says:
Quote
WhatsApp co-founders Brian Acton and Jan Koum are ardent supporters of protecting private communication... WhatsApp worked with Open Whisper Systems to develop the encryption technology and will use the not-for-profit’s Signal protocol for WhatsApp clients.
I think some Nxt users can trust WhatsApp co-founders...

IMHO if we need messenger plugin at all then it ought to be a popular messenger, like Telegram or WhatsApp or Viber.
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lurker10

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Re: Telegram
April 10, 2016, 09:27:49 am

WhatsApp is not open-source, its encryption hasn't been audited.
For an open-source, audited encrypted messenger, check Signal by WhisperSystems.
- hmmm.. that article says:
Quote
WhatsApp co-founders Brian Acton and Jan Koum are ardent supporters of protecting private communication... WhatsApp worked with Open Whisper Systems to develop the encryption technology and will use the not-for-profit’s Signal protocol for WhatsApp clients.
I think some Nxt users can trust WhatsApp co-founders...

IMHO if we need messenger plugin at all then it ought to be a popular messenger, like Telegram or WhatsApp or Viber.

WhatsApp worked with WhisperSystems but it is not open-source, you have to trust the app. You can build Signal yourself with source code, few people do that but it's possible. It's the same difference as in crypto-currency, project's closed-source status is a deal breaker for many people. I agree it should be a popular messenger, I was just pointing out what is wrong with WhatsApp's encryption, it's not trust-free.
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ron

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Re: Telegram
April 10, 2016, 12:35:23 pm

https://medium.com/@Coinapult/tender-wallet-bot-the-bitcoin-wallet-broker-for-your-telegram-app-1b58543e09e3#.rq0f6zg9l

http://themerkle.com/coinapult-brings-bitcoin-to-telegram-users/


With the tender wallet bot you can send bitcoin through telegram chat interface. No security statements or holes mentioned.

MrCluster87

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Re: Telegram
April 10, 2016, 12:53:09 pm

Yeah, Telegram is really cool and open source...

https://medium.com/@Coinapult/tender-wallet-bot-the-bitcoin-wallet-broker-for-your-telegram-app-1b58543e09e3#.rq0f6zg9l

http://themerkle.com/coinapult-brings-bitcoin-to-telegram-users/


With the tender wallet bot you can send bitcoin through telegram chat interface. No security statements or holes mentioned.

MrCluster87

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Re: Telegram
April 10, 2016, 01:08:23 pm

after adding the bot @tenderwalletbot

Tender Wallet, [10.04.16 15:06]
Welcome to your personal Tender Bot! To create an account, enter one of the top five commands listed below and follow the prompts. Here is a list of available commands:

Tender Wallet, [10.04.16 15:06]
/balance - Your current balance
/send - Send Bitcoins
/receive - Receive Bitcoins (show address)
/autolock - Get a new address that automatically locks received bitcoins
/lock -  Lock your Bitcoins into USD/EUR/GBP
/unlock - Unlock your Bitcoins from USD/EUR/GBP
/history - Transactions history
/cancel - Cancel current command

/update_email - Update your email address, for notifications and account recovery
/currency - Set the currency to be used when estimating balance
/buy - Information about where to Buy & Sell bitcoins
/share - Invite your friends to use this bot
/about - About the telegram wallet bot
/help - Show the bot commands menu


Tender Wallet, [10.04.16 15:06]
Welcome to your personal Tender Bot! To create an account, enter one of the top five commands listed below and follow the prompts. Here is a list of available commands:

Tender Wallet, [10.04.16 15:06]
/balance - Your current balance
/send - Send Bitcoins
/receive - Receive Bitcoins (show address)
/autolock - Get a new address that automatically locks received bitcoins
/lock -  Lock your Bitcoins into USD/EUR/GBP
/unlock - Unlock your Bitcoins from USD/EUR/GBP
/history - Transactions history
/cancel - Cancel current command

/update_email - Update your email address, for notifications and account recovery
/currency - Set the currency to be used when estimating balance
/buy - Information about where to Buy & Sell bitcoins
/share - Invite your friends to use this bot
/about - About the telegram wallet bot
/help - Show the bot commands menu

Tender Wallet, [10.04.16 15:10]
Tender Wallet is a Telegram bot that allows users to operate a fully functional Coinapult (https://coinapult.com) ( https://coinapult.com/ ) wallet using simple commands through Telegram.

Send and receive bitcoins with other Telegram or bitcoin users. Lock and unlock the value of your bitcoin to local fiat currencies, including USD, EUR, and GBP. It's a convenient way to use bitcoin for individuals, businesses, and merchants.

For any questions, comments, or suggestions please contact us at support@coinapult.com. Have a great day! :)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 01:12:14 pm by MrCluster87 »

devlux

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Re: Telegram
April 10, 2016, 08:32:58 pm

After the bounty increased I decided I'm doing Telegram chat using their bot interface AND I'm also doing a second "Slackchat".
2 different plugins since the code is around 90% the same.

I'm sorry someone else was able to integrate Telegram whatever with something or other and didn't feel there were security issues, but that's what tends to happen when you just import libs and don't look at what's in the box...
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/03/rage-quit-coder-unpublished-17-lines-of-javascript-and-broke-the-internet/

It's also possible they just wrapped the Telegram bot api and the bot api is a whole different kettle of fish from the desktop & mobile API, it's not what I'm complaining about.  It's limited but fine.

I never accused Telegram in general of being insecure.  I said their API docs do not allow one to independently implement a wrapper around their primary API.  And the code that they do have is not well written nor documented.  You basically have to trust their implementation and import it wholesale.  We can't do that here because it's stomping on NRS.  Also I do not trust, I read things and verify where I can.

I then went further and said that when I examined the code they have published, I found it doing a lot of really insecure stuff that probably isn't a big deal if it's you and a buddy having a chat.  But if your buddy were to send a message with a certain shape they could get your private key, if we integrated the telegram desktop.  It's also a house of cards, I don't see anyone using it as a base to build other things in the future.  Hence, independent implementation of the Telegram Bot API, in a simple, clear and precise manner. then update some references to produce a slack bot :)

Signal is a good option for a future plugin but from what I read it's mobile only.  Even their desktop which is a chrome app, requires linking to an android or ios device.  I would be very interested in finding out I'm wrong on that point.
WhatsApp is not on the table for this.
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devlux

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Re: Telegram
April 13, 2016, 03:32:46 am

Telegram plugin is nearing completion.  I should be on track for Wednesday or possibly Thursday.  This is #1 on my deliverables list for the week.  Slackchat plugin is #2, and should be about 2 days after the Telegram plugin drops.

Sorry I haven't had a lot of time to implement.  Got bogged down in the particulars of a few projects and had to do a reshuffle on some others as soon as Shapeshift was hacked.

Telegram will need testers, if you have a Telegram account please step up for testing and I'll get you an early drop.
Thanks!
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Re: Telegram
April 13, 2016, 06:41:09 am

I can help testing.

asfd

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Re: Telegram
April 13, 2016, 06:51:27 am

I want to test it, too.

MrCluster87

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Re: Telegram
April 13, 2016, 07:23:19 am

Great! I can test it too  ;)

abctc

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Re: Telegram
April 13, 2016, 09:37:21 am

me too, of course..
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MrCluster87

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Re: Telegram
April 13, 2016, 07:04:57 pm

devlux

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Re: Telegram
April 13, 2016, 11:07:34 pm

Bot Platform 2.0: https://telegram.org/blog/bots-2-0

OMG!  Seriously!  They change up the API the day I'm nearly finished.  Ugh, ok give me just a wee bit more to see what this is going to entail.
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devlux

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Re: Telegram
April 14, 2016, 12:57:19 am

Bot Platform 2.0: https://telegram.org/blog/bots-2-0

OMG!  Seriously!  They change up the API the day I'm nearly finished.  Ugh, ok give me just a wee bit more to see what this is going to entail.

I'm starting to wonder if this doesn't make more sense as an addon rather than a plugin.

Plugins require you to be logged into your machine and can present a nice UI over any information they can get it, but they are intended for you to be there lookng at them.  You leave the machine, shut the browser window etc and the plugin shuts off.

NXT Addons run as part of the java framework and do not require you to be logged in (near as I can tell). You can receive information that the NXT server has such as account details etc.  But you'd need to hand in a password to take actions.  Might be useful to notify you of events like balance changes, new messages etc though.

So question.  I've basically built a chat app on top of the current bot API, which looks now like it might need to be tossed into a bin. 
Do you guys want to chat via telegram with other telegram users, when logged into you own NXT, or do you want to have a bot that interfaces with NXT to provide you with info over Telegram. 

These are conflicting things to do. 

Still planning on Slackchat being an actual chat app though.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 01:12:22 am by devlux »
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MrCluster87

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Re: Telegram
April 14, 2016, 06:31:38 am

Quote
do you want to have a bot that interfaces with NXT to provide you with info over Telegram.

can you elaborate more over this solution? what uses it could bring?

abctc

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Re: Telegram
April 14, 2016, 06:45:56 am

Do you guys want to chat via telegram with other telegram users, when logged into you own NXT, or do you want to have a bot that interfaces with NXT to provide you with info over Telegram. 
- the former, I think.
Welcome to the Nxt generation of crypto!   Magis quam Moneta (More than a Coin)
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