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Daedelus

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Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« on: April 22, 2015, 01:15:00 pm »

I have a question, if I issue a currency (via MS) and don't select any of the 'type' boxes (Exchangeable, Controllable, Reservable, Claimable, Mintable, Non-Shuffleable,)
what 'type' of instrument will be created?

My objective is to create a currency that could be traded at a Poloniex type of exchange with no strings attached.


thanks

I think he is right and you will just create a coin of x units in your own account?
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PICISI

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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2015, 01:24:06 pm »

I have a question, if I issue a currency (via MS) and don't select any of the 'type' boxes (Exchangeable, Controllable, Reservable, Claimable, Mintable, Non-Shuffleable,)
what 'type' of instrument will be created?

My objective is to create a currency that could be traded at a Poloniex type of exchange with no strings attached.


thanks



I think he is right and you will just create a coin of x units in your own account?


would it still be 'tradeable' within NXT's exchange even if it is not 'exchangable', or would I have to list it in NXT's marketplace?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 04:52:02 pm by PICISI »
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Roiman

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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2015, 02:53:44 pm »

I would think all you could do is give them away and then whoever gets them couldnt do anything with it but not sure.

You can edit the MS currency if you hold all of the coins for 40 nxt for any MS currency
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PICISI

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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2015, 04:55:56 pm »

I would think all you could do is give them away and then whoever gets them couldnt do anything with it but not sure.

You can edit the MS currency if you hold all of the coins for 40 nxt for any MS currency

Thanks for your response. 

Although none will be 'given away' most will be exchanged for labor, then subsequently traded on an exchange.
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Riker

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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2015, 09:21:33 pm »

You cannot issue a currency which has no properties, you'll get a "Currency type not specified" error.
Trading currency on Poloniex won't work out of the box, since currencies does not use Bid/Ask order model like most exchanges but Offer/Request model which mimics currency exchange desks.
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PICISI

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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2015, 10:08:25 pm »

You cannot issue a currency which has no properties, you'll get a "Currency type not specified" error.
Trading currency on Poloniex won't work out of the box, since currencies does not use Bid/Ask order model like most exchanges but Offer/Request model which mimics currency exchange desks.

"won't work out of the box"
Ouch!  What does that mean?   What needs to be done in order to make my newly created currency palatable for the technical side of the Poloniex marketplace (given all permissions are in place).

Are there any NXT MS currencies currently on any Poloniex-type public exchange?




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jl777

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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2015, 12:09:43 am »

You cannot issue a currency which has no properties, you'll get a "Currency type not specified" error.
Trading currency on Poloniex won't work out of the box, since currencies does not use Bid/Ask order model like most exchanges but Offer/Request model which mimics currency exchange desks.

"won't work out of the box"
Ouch!  What does that mean?   What needs to be done in order to make my newly created currency palatable for the technical side of the Poloniex marketplace (given all permissions are in place).

Are there any NXT MS currencies currently on any Poloniex-type public exchange?
there is confusion here.
as long as poloniex accepts MS coin deposits by handling the transferCurrency API, all trading within poloniex happens within poloniex, so whther MS coin is tradeable on NXT is irrelevant

as long as the MS coin has transferCurrency enabled (most modes do) it will work
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PICISI

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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2015, 12:41:28 am »

You cannot issue a currency which has no properties, you'll get a "Currency type not specified" error.
Trading currency on Poloniex won't work out of the box, since currencies does not use Bid/Ask order model like most exchanges but Offer/Request model which mimics currency exchange desks.

"won't work out of the box"
Ouch!  What does that mean?   What needs to be done in order to make my newly created currency palatable for the technical side of the Poloniex marketplace (given all permissions are in place).

Are there any NXT MS currencies currently on any Poloniex-type public exchange?
there is confusion here.
as long as poloniex accepts MS coin deposits by handling the transferCurrency API, all trading within poloniex happens within poloniex, so whther MS coin is tradeable on NXT is irrelevant

as long as the MS coin has transferCurrency enabled (most modes do) it will work

Firstly, thanks for your reply, your stellar reputation precedes you.

Do you know of any currency created via MS that is presently hosted at any of the 'outside' exchanges such as Poloniex?  If so, which ones?

When I approach the various exchanges with my currency inclusion request I'd like a point of reference, in fact I'd likely start with those familiar with the process before attempting to break new ground.

thanks


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jl777

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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2015, 01:03:40 am »

You cannot issue a currency which has no properties, you'll get a "Currency type not specified" error.
Trading currency on Poloniex won't work out of the box, since currencies does not use Bid/Ask order model like most exchanges but Offer/Request model which mimics currency exchange desks.

"won't work out of the box"
Ouch!  What does that mean?   What needs to be done in order to make my newly created currency palatable for the technical side of the Poloniex marketplace (given all permissions are in place).

Are there any NXT MS currencies currently on any Poloniex-type public exchange?
there is confusion here.
as long as poloniex accepts MS coin deposits by handling the transferCurrency API, all trading within poloniex happens within poloniex, so whther MS coin is tradeable on NXT is irrelevant

as long as the MS coin has transferCurrency enabled (most modes do) it will work

Firstly, thanks for your reply, your stellar reputation precedes you.

Do you know of any currency created via MS that is presently hosted at any of the 'outside' exchanges such as Poloniex?  If so, which ones?

When I approach the various exchanges with my currency inclusion request I'd like a point of reference, in fact I'd likely start with those familiar with the process before attempting to break new ground.

thanks
I am not aware of any, but I havent searched. However, there are several that trade NXT assets, poloniex and bter being the largest of these. there is also some smaller exchange that does.

the code difference between asset and MS coin for exchange support is as follows:

    if ( dir == 0 || priceNQT == 0 )
        cmd = (ap->type == 2 ? "transferAsset" : "transferCurrency"), priceNQT = 0;
    else cmd = ((dir > 0) ? (ap->type == 2 ? "placeBidOrder" : "currencyBuy") : (ap->type == 2 ? "placeAskOrder" : "currencySell")), otherNXT = 0;

Basically just change the transferAsset to transferCurrency and placeBidOrder to currencyBuy and placeAskOrder to currencySell

also the transaction type goes from 2 to 5, but for any exchange that supports assets, MS coin is 99% the same

James

P.S. there are a few other differences: getAsset -> getCurrency and the field names are a bit different, price vs rate but they are close enough I actually use "assetid" to cover both assets and MScoins (and also native cryptos) internally
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PICISI

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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2015, 01:41:33 am »

You cannot issue a currency which has no properties, you'll get a "Currency type not specified" error.
Trading currency on Poloniex won't work out of the box, since currencies does not use Bid/Ask order model like most exchanges but Offer/Request model which mimics currency exchange desks.

"won't work out of the box"
Ouch!  What does that mean?   What needs to be done in order to make my newly created currency palatable for the technical side of the Poloniex marketplace (given all permissions are in place).

Are there any NXT MS currencies currently on any Poloniex-type public exchange?
there is confusion here.
as long as poloniex accepts MS coin deposits by handling the transferCurrency API, all trading within poloniex happens within poloniex, so whther MS coin is tradeable on NXT is irrelevant

as long as the MS coin has transferCurrency enabled (most modes do) it will work

Firstly, thanks for your reply, your stellar reputation precedes you.

Do you know of any currency created via MS that is presently hosted at any of the 'outside' exchanges such as Poloniex?  If so, which ones?

When I approach the various exchanges with my currency inclusion request I'd like a point of reference, in fact I'd likely start with those familiar with the process before attempting to break new ground.

thanks
I am not aware of any, but I havent searched. However, there are several that trade NXT assets, poloniex and bter being the largest of these. there is also some smaller exchange that does.

the code difference between asset and MS coin for exchange support is as follows:

    if ( dir == 0 || priceNQT == 0 )
        cmd = (ap->type == 2 ? "transferAsset" : "transferCurrency"), priceNQT = 0;
    else cmd = ((dir > 0) ? (ap->type == 2 ? "placeBidOrder" : "currencyBuy") : (ap->type == 2 ? "placeAskOrder" : "currencySell")), otherNXT = 0;

Basically just change the transferAsset to transferCurrency and placeBidOrder to currencyBuy and placeAskOrder to currencySell

also the transaction type goes from 2 to 5, but for any exchange that supports assets, MS coin is 99% the same

James

P.S. there are a few other differences: getAsset -> getCurrency and the field names are a bit different, price vs rate but they are close enough I actually use "assetid" to cover both assets and MScoins (and also native cryptos) internally

Whoa, I'm seriously honored.

Although I don't know what most of that means, I'm confident those who I approach with the data will know how to use it

Thanks again. 

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jl777

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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2015, 02:32:23 am »

You cannot issue a currency which has no properties, you'll get a "Currency type not specified" error.
Trading currency on Poloniex won't work out of the box, since currencies does not use Bid/Ask order model like most exchanges but Offer/Request model which mimics currency exchange desks.

"won't work out of the box"
Ouch!  What does that mean?   What needs to be done in order to make my newly created currency palatable for the technical side of the Poloniex marketplace (given all permissions are in place).

Are there any NXT MS currencies currently on any Poloniex-type public exchange?
there is confusion here.
as long as poloniex accepts MS coin deposits by handling the transferCurrency API, all trading within poloniex happens within poloniex, so whther MS coin is tradeable on NXT is irrelevant

as long as the MS coin has transferCurrency enabled (most modes do) it will work

Firstly, thanks for your reply, your stellar reputation precedes you.

Do you know of any currency created via MS that is presently hosted at any of the 'outside' exchanges such as Poloniex?  If so, which ones?

When I approach the various exchanges with my currency inclusion request I'd like a point of reference, in fact I'd likely start with those familiar with the process before attempting to break new ground.

thanks
I am not aware of any, but I havent searched. However, there are several that trade NXT assets, poloniex and bter being the largest of these. there is also some smaller exchange that does.

the code difference between asset and MS coin for exchange support is as follows:

    if ( dir == 0 || priceNQT == 0 )
        cmd = (ap->type == 2 ? "transferAsset" : "transferCurrency"), priceNQT = 0;
    else cmd = ((dir > 0) ? (ap->type == 2 ? "placeBidOrder" : "currencyBuy") : (ap->type == 2 ? "placeAskOrder" : "currencySell")), otherNXT = 0;

Basically just change the transferAsset to transferCurrency and placeBidOrder to currencyBuy and placeAskOrder to currencySell

also the transaction type goes from 2 to 5, but for any exchange that supports assets, MS coin is 99% the same

James

P.S. there are a few other differences: getAsset -> getCurrency and the field names are a bit different, price vs rate but they are close enough I actually use "assetid" to cover both assets and MScoins (and also native cryptos) internally

Whoa, I'm seriously honored.

Although I don't know what most of that means, I'm confident those who I approach with the data will know how to use it

Thanks again.
No problem. I am glad you are pushing forward MS coins, this is what it needs, a real world use case and an example for others to follow.

Just let me know if you need any help. I am sure we can get an exchange the info they need to adopt it

James
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Riker

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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2015, 05:39:41 am »

transferAsset is indeed equivalent to transferCurrency but placeBidOrder/placeAskOrder are not equivalent to currencyBuy/currencySell since the latter is matched against a separate exchangeOffer entity which the asset exchange does not use. This means that an external exchange will have to adapt its code to support this behavior. Compare the MS exchange booth to the Asset Exchange page. I'm not sure how much effort it will take for an exchange to implement this type of trade. Probably a lot.
jl, do you have a workaround for this ?

See also the official documentation https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/issue/205:
"EXCHANGEABLE - the currency can be exchanged with NXT. Holders of the currency can publish an exchange offer specifying the buy and sell rate of the currency much the same as banks or currency exchanges publish their exchange rates . Each account can publish only a single exchange offer at any given time. Exchange offers has an expiry block after which they are no longer in effect. Buyers and sellers can issue exchange requests to match published exchange offers. Unlike asset bid/ask orders, exchange requests are not saved, they are either executed immediately (fully or partially) or not executed at all. A match of exchange offer with a buy or sell exchange request creates an exchange entity which represents the transfer of currency units in return to NXT balance and causes the relevant account balances to update. Issuing an exchange offer reduces the NXT and currency balance of the offering account temporarily until the offer expires. Exchange offers also specifies a limit on the number of exchanged units which can be larger than the number of units offered. When a buy exchange request matches an exchange offer the number of units offered for sell is reduced and the number of units offered for buy is increased as long as the limit has not been reached. Once the exchange limit of an exchange offer has been reached, This exchange offer can no longer be used."
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jl777

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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2015, 05:44:26 am »

transferAsset is indeed equivalent to transferCurrency but placeBidOrder/placeAskOrder are not equivalent to currencyBuy/currencySell since the latter is matched against a separate exchangeOffer entity which the asset exchange does not use. This means that an external exchange will have to adapt its code to support this behavior. Compare the MS exchange booth to the Asset Exchange page. I'm not sure how much effort it will take for an exchange to implement this type of trade. Probably a lot.
jl, do you have a workaround for this ?

See also the official documentation https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/issue/205:
"EXCHANGEABLE - the currency can be exchanged with NXT. Holders of the currency can publish an exchange offer specifying the buy and sell rate of the currency much the same as banks or currency exchanges publish their exchange rates . Each account can publish only a single exchange offer at any given time. Exchange offers has an expiry block after which they are no longer in effect. Buyers and sellers can issue exchange requests to match published exchange offers. Unlike asset bid/ask orders, exchange requests are not saved, they are either executed immediately (fully or partially) or not executed at all. A match of exchange offer with a buy or sell exchange request creates an exchange entity which represents the transfer of currency units in return to NXT balance and causes the relevant account balances to update. Issuing an exchange offer reduces the NXT and currency balance of the offering account temporarily until the offer expires. Exchange offers also specifies a limit on the number of exchanged units which can be larger than the number of units offered. When a buy exchange request matches an exchange offer the number of units offered for sell is reduced and the number of units offered for buy is increased as long as the limit has not been reached. Once the exchange limit of an exchange offer has been reached, This exchange offer can no longer be used."
It is irrelevant how MS coins are traded NXT. Exchanges are not using the coin natively. when you send in a deposit, they credit your account, much like MGW does but this is not a NXT asset, it would be an exchange specific database entry

this is how exchanges let you trade 8 decimals for assets that only have 0 decimals

they are NOT using the native trading capability, so as long as transferCurrency works I think that is all that is needed for exchange support.

James
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valarmg

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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2015, 03:08:04 pm »

Possibly if PICISI is not interested in any of the MScoin properties, then using an asset instead might be a better option. (Assets don't have to be company assets, but can represent lots of things, including digital currencies.)
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PICISI

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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2015, 05:01:54 pm »

Possibly if PICISI is not interested in any of the MScoin properties, then using an asset instead might be a better option. (Assets don't have to be company assets, but can represent lots of things, including digital currencies.)

When I initially I came into this it was with the mindset to create a 'token'.  It wasn't until I read a number of things that I came to this choice of 'Asset' vs 'Currency', viewing the token as either as either Asset or Currency.  After days of examination I realized that both would be ideal however impractical. 

The reason for both is because as an Asset Pi (the nickname for the PICISI issued currency) would serve to raise startup funds, and periodic licensing funds.
However as a currency it could be used in the day-to-day operations of the business.  As a currency Pi would be used to pay contractors and admin for working for PICISI.   And as a currency site campaign organizers and site sponsors could use the instrument.  But since I didn't want to issue both, and because the currency could do the job of both I decided to go with the currency.   The repayment structure would be the same in both cases, Pi is purchased from exchanges with funds  derived from fiat fees.

I guess the biggest 'property' is that it is a currency is a currency, the additional properties are good especially for an experienced instrument.

 



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valarmg

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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2015, 05:16:02 pm »


I guess the biggest 'property' is that it is a currency is a currency, the additional properties are good especially for an experienced instrument.

They are both tokens. One is called a currency, one is called an asset. Those are just names. You can call an asset PI-coin and treat it as a currency, using it for payments etc.. Similarly, you can create a token from MScoin, and use it as an asset, a crowdfunding token, a loyalty reward etc. Which you decide to use should mainly be determined by the properties each of these systems supply. Based on what I've read so far, sounds like you should just issue an asset token and treat it as a currency.
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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2015, 08:58:39 pm »


I guess the biggest 'property' is that it is a currency is a currency, the additional properties are good especially for an experienced instrument.

They are both tokens. One is called a currency, one is called an asset. Those are just names. You can call an asset PI-coin and treat it as a currency, using it for payments etc.. Similarly, you can create a token from MScoin, and use it as an asset, a crowdfunding token, a loyalty reward etc. Which you decide to use should mainly be determined by the properties each of these systems supply. Based on what I've read so far, sounds like you should just issue an asset token and treat it as a currency.

Isn't there a difference in that you can't change the asset population while you could change the MS population (inflation/deflation)?
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valarmg

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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2015, 09:02:16 pm »


Isn't there a difference in that you can't change the asset population while you could change the MS population (inflation/deflation)?

Yes, there are of course differences, which will vary depending on which parameters used for a MScoin. But PICISI doesn't seem interested in adding inflation etc. to his token, thus an asset token could be his best option, even if he wants to use it as a currency.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 09:08:17 pm by valarmg »
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Re: Question - MSCoin without any properties selected
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2015, 09:05:32 pm »


Isn't there a difference in that you can't change the asset population while you could change the MS population (inflation/deflation)?

Yes, there are of course differences, which will vary depending on which parameters you use for the MScoin. But PICISI doesn't seem interested in adding inflation etc. to his token, thus an asset token could be his best option, even if he wants to use it as a currency.

Got it. I always wondered why these properties weren't just added to Assets as opposed to creating a whole new token type.
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