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NXT First Outgoing Transaction
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MrV777

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NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« on: March 26, 2014, 04:58:09 pm »

I apologize if this is posted somewhere else or this is the wrong location, I didn't see anything like this posted somewhere else.
I read here:
http://www.thenxtwiki.org/wiki/How-To:CreateAccount
Quote
Until you send some Nxt from your account, it will only be protected with a 64-bit public key. A much more secure, 256-bit key is created as soon as one outgoing transaction is made from your account.

I think it may be a good idea (maybe in the client) to have first time users run through a few things to setup their account including sending some NXT:
Example:
1.) Load up the NXT client and type in your password (Account 33% setup)
2.) Go to the faucet and get your first NXT (Account 66% setup)
3.) Send your first NXT (Account 100% setup.  Welcome to NXT!)


Just an idea that popped in my head right now and wanted to write down before I forgot  ;D
I know security is a big issue and thought that something like this might help.
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forkedchain

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2014, 05:08:27 pm »

+1 you should go to the alt clients section and ask wesleyh to do this
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CryptKeeper

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2014, 05:50:34 pm »


I apologize if this is posted somewhere else or this is the wrong location, I didn't see anything like this posted somewhere else.
I read here:
http://www.thenxtwiki.org/wiki/How-To:CreateAccount
Quote
Until you send some Nxt from your account, it will only be protected with a 64-bit public key. A much more secure, 256-bit key is created as soon as one outgoing transaction is made from your account.

I think it may be a good idea (maybe in the client) to have first time users run through a few things to setup their account including sending some NXT:
Example:
1.) Load up the NXT client and type in your password (Account 33% setup)
2.) Go to the faucet and get your first NXT (Account 66% setup)
3.) Send your first NXT (Account 100% setup.  Welcome to NXT!)


Just an idea that popped in my head right now and wanted to write down before I forgot  ;D
I know security is a big issue and thought that something like this might help.

Would it be sufficient to spend 1 NXT for an alias? Or do I have to transfer NXT to a different account to get the 256-bit-key?
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L5Society

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2014, 05:59:48 pm »

You can secure your account with a 256-bit key by purchasing an alias.
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Damelon

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2014, 06:19:35 pm »

I apologize if this is posted somewhere else or this is the wrong location, I didn't see anything like this posted somewhere else.
I read here:
http://www.thenxtwiki.org/wiki/How-To:CreateAccount
Quote
Until you send some Nxt from your account, it will only be protected with a 64-bit public key. A much more secure, 256-bit key is created as soon as one outgoing transaction is made from your account.

I think it may be a good idea (maybe in the client) to have first time users run through a few things to setup their account including sending some NXT:
Example:
1.) Load up the NXT client and type in your password (Account 33% setup)
2.) Go to the faucet and get your first NXT (Account 66% setup)
3.) Send your first NXT (Account 100% setup.  Welcome to NXT!)


Just an idea that popped in my head right now and wanted to write down before I forgot  ;D
I know security is a big issue and thought that something like this might help.

The faucet(s) have always seemed silly to me, because giving out 2-4 Nxt is far too little to use and spend (1 Nxt transaction fee makes it effectively useless).
This however would give a constructive function to the faucet as long as it continues to exist.

In place of being a giveaway, it turns into a community driven way of securing wallets better.

Win-win is always good in my book :)
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MrV777

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2014, 08:39:14 pm »

True.  Not sure if it would help too, but for the first outgoing transaction they could send 1-2 NXT back to the faucet so it drains slower and users get experience in both getting NXT and sending it.
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jefdiesel

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2014, 10:08:42 pm »

True.  Not sure if it would help too, but for the first outgoing transaction they could send 1-2 NXT back to the faucet so it drains slower and users get experience in both getting NXT and sending it.

smart thinking!
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barbierir

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2014, 07:57:35 pm »

You can also send 1 Nxt to yourself
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Eadeqa

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2014, 08:07:44 pm »

http://www.thenxtwiki.org/wiki/How-To:CreateAccount
Quote
Until you send some Nxt from your account, it will only be protected with a 64-bit public key. A much more secure, 256-bit key is created as soon as one outgoing transaction is made from your account.

That should be  "64-bit account number. "

It's not a key
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Eadeqa

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2014, 08:09:40 pm »

You can secure your account with a 256-bit key by purchasing an alias.

Also forging creates public key, but I think that's only if you generate a block? 
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cayenne

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2014, 04:29:10 pm »

Since you don't need to spend or give away NXT to have an outgoing transaction,
maybe the client should automatically issue some type of outgoing transaction to secure
each account. It's a weakness in NXT that you have to remember to do an outgoing
transaction to improve security. Couldn't that process be automated in some way?

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antanst

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2014, 06:45:00 pm »

Actually this lack of security is a supposed "feature" and it was, according to CfB, among BCNext's plans. Don't ask why...
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ChuckOne

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2014, 11:18:51 am »

Actually this lack of security is a supposed "feature" and it was, according to CfB, among BCNext's plans. Don't ask why...

For mining unprotected accounts to release trapped NXTs.
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ChuckOne

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2014, 11:32:06 am »

You can secure your account with a 256-bit key by purchasing an alias.

Also forging creates public key, but I think that's only if you generate a block?

You cannot forge if you have no public key. https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/src/df3833f13849e6b5e2a255c4a090fa4c32759362/src/java/nxt/Account.java?at=develop#cl-183
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bitcoinpaul

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2014, 11:33:00 am »

It is time to 'erase' this feature.
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Tosch110

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2014, 05:45:43 pm »

I already asked my questions here: https://nxtforum.org/alternative-clients/suggestion-regarding-client-first-transaction-security/

but i think the thread continues here, so again:

I am building a nxt faucet and I am going to face this problem several times.

One of the aims of my faucet is to bringt people to nxt, create an account and receive the first payment without investing fiat money.
So, I think people will create accounts and register with those, the problem is that neither account balance > 0 nor "get_true_account" via the public key will show me if it is a real nxt account.

What can i do to see if this account really has been unlocked with a passphrase?
And if i try to make sendings to a non-existing account, will the nxt just disappear or will it not be possible to make such a transaction?

An outgoing transaction could be anything, right? Why not create a pool with 1000 nxt or something, as soon as messages will get cheap, every created account automatically sends a message to a nxt account with a statement like "account x has been created".
This would be cheap if messages are cheap and the account would be secure

ChuckOne

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2014, 10:17:29 am »

It is time to 'erase' this feature.

I disagree. It is a technological capability. It should be up to the users and if they are incapable of, clients should do the dirty work for them.
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bitcoinpaul

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2014, 10:22:22 am »

It is a technological capability.

Could you elaborate on that?
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forkedchain

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2014, 01:55:54 pm »

this is incorrect, Ive done this in the past with an account that had no outgoing transactions that forged a block.  see account in my signature, and note that the block it forged, 5061286988405712336, was before any transactions that required a fee.

You cannot forge if you have no public key. https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/src/df3833f13849e6b5e2a255c4a090fa4c32759362/src/java/nxt/Account.java?at=develop#cl-183
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antanst

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Re: NXT First Outgoing Transaction
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2014, 04:20:20 pm »

Ive done this in the past with an account that had no outgoing transactions that forged a block.

This behavior has changed.
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