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Why two different Account Numbers?
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thebutterfly

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Why two different Account Numbers?
« on: June 13, 2014, 09:45:52 am »

The NXT client shows two different account ID's:
1) An alpha-numeric sequence at the top of the interface, beginning with  the letters "NXT"
2) An numeric sequence visible only after clicking "More info" in the blue "Account Balance" box at top left of interface.

Why two different account ID numbers?
What is the usage scenario of each of these account ID numbers?

Thanks.
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nCtrl

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2014, 09:52:56 am »

They represent both the same "information". The NXT-... is the same as the ID but expressed in Reed Solomon format which among other things has these benefits:

1. It can handle up to 2 typos, not that you should purposefully type it wrong, but if you write one or two wrong digits, your funds will still go to the designated account. It is not infallible but it gives an additional layer of "confidence".
2. It is easier to read. A long string of numbers is not the easiest thing to read/digit, you leave a digit behind or type one wrong and your transaction goes to somebody else.

more info:
http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/RS_Address_Format
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 09:54:55 am by nCtrl »
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bitcoinpaul

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2014, 09:55:41 am »

Why two different account ID numbers?

We are in a period of transition. Soon, most will only use Reed Solomon format.
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CIYAM

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2014, 10:56:49 am »

Although I think it is great that we have the error correction it is a pity that a '-' was used as a separator as you can't just "double click" (or "touch and hold") on addresses for easy clipboard copy. :(

NXT-K4G2-FF32-WLL3-QBGEL

NXTxK4G2xFF32xWLL3xQBGEL

NXToK4G2oFF32oWLL3oQBGEL

As an example of what I mean ("double click" or "touch and hold" on the above).
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 12:00:41 pm by CIYAM »
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farl4bit

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2014, 11:53:39 am »

Why two different account ID numbers?

We are in a period of transition. Soon, most will only use Reed Solomon format.
Just when I got a nice short accountnumber: 8550792692  :( 

….but no problem. I wil go along with it. Do I have a choice?  ;)
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thebutterfly

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2014, 12:25:47 pm »

When one is using the Reed Solomon account ID format, must one replicate the hyphens/dashes, or not?
Thanks to all for the helpful feedback.
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VanBreuk

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2014, 12:29:29 pm »

No, the hyphens are not enforced in the input.

Edit - That's in the software, as reported by the wiki - the current client UI does apparently require them
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 12:34:36 pm by VanBreuk »
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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2014, 12:35:30 pm »

No, the hyphens are not enforced in the input if you type the addess manually.

Edit - That's in the software, as reported by the wiki - the current client UI does apparently require them

The hyphens are going to have every "touch computer" user *hate it* - not sure why that decision was made but I am sure it is going to be one that will be regretted (and so most likely it'll have to be changed *again* to get rid of the dashes).
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adsactly

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2014, 06:02:39 pm »

I have to say I agree why the - it looks like a CD-Key for a Game now Hahah :)
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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2014, 06:35:28 pm »

No, the hyphens are not enforced in the input if you type the addess manually.

Edit - That's in the software, as reported by the wiki - the current client UI does apparently require them

The hyphens are going to have every "touch computer" user *hate it* - not sure why that decision was made but I am sure it is going to be one that will be regretted (and so most likely it'll have to be changed *again* to get rid of the dashes).


get rid of the NXT at the front as well.
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marcus03

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2014, 06:44:34 pm »

No, the hyphens are not enforced in the input if you type the addess manually.

Edit - That's in the software, as reported by the wiki - the current client UI does apparently require them

The hyphens are going to have every "touch computer" user *hate it* - not sure why that decision was made but I am sure it is going to be one that will be regretted (and so most likely it'll have to be changed *again* to get rid of the dashes).

Isn't that really just a problem of the cleverness of the client software. An input field with a mask NXT-___-___-____ assigned or an input field which is clever enough to scan the input while the user types would make this a non-issue.
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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2014, 01:57:49 am »

Isn't that really just a problem of the cleverness of the client software. An input field with a mask NXT-___-___-____ assigned or an input field which is clever enough to scan the input while the user types would make this a non-issue.

So are you going to use said "input field" in your forum sig?

(and teach everyone else how to do that?)

I don't think there is any need to try and "be so clever" - KISS.
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farl4bit

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2014, 09:58:56 am »

No, the hyphens are not enforced in the input if you type the addess manually.

Edit - That's in the software, as reported by the wiki - the current client UI does apparently require them

The hyphens are going to have every "touch computer" user *hate it* - not sure why that decision was made but I am sure it is going to be one that will be regretted (and so most likely it'll have to be changed *again* to get rid of the dashes).


get rid of the NXT at the front as well.
I don't agree, then it will look like nothing for me. The NXT in front will let people know what it is.

I think it's a matter of taste if you like the numbers of the Reed Solomon version.

EDIT: Another advantage of the RS-version is that you can easily tell someone you accountnumber so they can write it down. When it's a long number of digits you will get lost. RS is better and more userfriendly IMO.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2014, 10:04:26 am by farl4bit »
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CIYAM

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2014, 10:31:45 am »

EDIT: Another advantage of the RS-version is that you can easily tell someone you accountnumber so they can write it down. When it's a long number of digits you will get lost. RS is better and more userfriendly IMO.

How many times have you ever "read out a Bitcoin address to someone in full"?

I have yet to do that even once (and I've been using it since 2011). So IMO this is a "feature" that is simply *not needed* whereas I think "copy and paste" is actually very much needed most times that you are going to do a payment.
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ChuckOne

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2014, 10:41:51 am »

EDIT: Another advantage of the RS-version is that you can easily tell someone you accountnumber so they can write it down. When it's a long number of digits you will get lost. RS is better and more userfriendly IMO.

How many times have you ever "read out a Bitcoin address to someone in full"?

I have yet to do that even once (and I've been using it since 2011). So IMO this is a "feature" that is simply *not needed* whereas I think "copy and paste" is actually very much needed most times that you are going to do a payment.

If I do a transaction for my grandmother, I would need to do. Because she stores the account ids on a piece of paper. ;)
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Brangdon

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2014, 12:26:37 pm »

get rid of the NXT at the front as well.
That's important to distinguish it from other numbers. I think we already had a guy who entered an asset number instead of an account number, and lost some coins.
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rudeboi

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2014, 10:59:09 am »

RS format is much better, I think because it looks like a 'game' code it's more acceptable to an end user anyway. Also like NXT at the beginning for making it obvious what it is.

Never realised about the touch and hold thing though, as have always used a computer, but dashes look so much better than x's or o's. I will admit that it will take a few more seconds to copy and paste with mobile devices, but surely we can work around this with ease.

E.g. copy NXTK4G2FF32WLL3QBGEL and when pasted into any Nxt software automatically becomes NXT-K4G2-FF32-WLL3-QBGEL
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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2014, 11:29:22 am »

E.g. copy NXTK4G2FF32WLL3QBGEL and when pasted into any Nxt software automatically becomes NXT-K4G2-FF32-WLL3-QBGEL

The problem is "copy" not "paste". You simply cannot copy NXT-K4G2-FF32-WLL3-QBGEL with any ease at all on a touch device. I would recommend that you *try it* and see for yourself exactly how hard it is to move the start and end of the "selection" area with you fingers.

It's annoying enough on a normal computer that you can't just *double click* but at least with a mouse it isn't so hard to do the select - touch screens make that simple action about 10x harder (no kidding).
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valarmg

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2014, 11:47:34 am »

E.g. copy NXTK4G2FF32WLL3QBGEL and when pasted into any Nxt software automatically becomes NXT-K4G2-FF32-WLL3-QBGEL

The problem is "copy" not "paste". You simply cannot copy NXT-K4G2-FF32-WLL3-QBGEL with any ease at all on a touch device. I would recommend that you *try it* and see for yourself exactly how hard it is to move the start and end of the "selection" area with you fingers.

It's annoying enough on a normal computer that you can't just *double click* but at least with a mouse it isn't so hard to do the select - touch screens make that simple action about 10x harder (no kidding).

The thing to do is to use NXTK4G2FF32WLL3QBGEL as the number, but make it standard in clients to display the number with the non pastable dashes.

So as far as the double click copy and paste is concerned, it only sees the numbers. Not sure how difficult it would be to create an input text box such as the one I described (non pastable dashes) in css.
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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2014, 11:49:06 am »

The thing to do is to use NXTK4G2FF32WLL3QBGEL as the number, but make it standard in clients to display the number with the non pastable dashes.

Again - the issue is not *paste* but *copy* so non-pasteable dashes makes *zero sense* (perhaps you meant something else - "non-copyable"?).
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 11:52:20 am by CIYAM »
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rudeboi

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2014, 12:06:20 pm »

What I meant is that websites could just display the id without dashes if they wanted, maybe as well as a dash version, or a copy to clipboard button, if users wanted it. Depends where you are copying from I suppose.

Makes more sense that a website would just show a normal RS account, QR Code and some kind of link that can be opened directly with a Nxt wallet mobile app.
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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2014, 12:09:14 pm »

Certainly if the dashes were omitted it would make it 10x easier for people to use the clipboard which is 99% of the time the only thing people will *do with an address*.

I have never "read out aloud" nor "written down" a single Bitcoin address - have you?

I have also never done this with a NXT address - so *making it easier to do that* is rather *silly* to my thinking when all I want to be able to do is *copy and paste* the address.
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rudeboi

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2014, 12:20:44 pm »

Your are right that I have never read out aloud a bitcoin address, but I also remember how shocked I first was when I saw my bitcoin address and was pretty confused.

We are going for main stream adoption, and a Nxt RS number looks similar to the current industry of credit card numbers and coupon codes.
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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2014, 12:45:42 pm »

We are going for main stream adoption, and a Nxt RS number looks similar to the current industry of credit card numbers and coupon codes.

You are wrong to think that people are going to be "reading these out aloud" or "writing them down" - that was the 1990s.

If it isn't *clipboard friendly* then basically *it will be rejected* (i.e. you don't *replace* the traditional payment system by trying to *look like them*).
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valarmg

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2014, 01:02:02 pm »

The thing to do is to use NXTK4G2FF32WLL3QBGEL as the number, but make it standard in clients to display the number with the non pastable dashes.

Again - the issue is not *paste* but *copy* so non-pasteable dashes makes *zero sense* (perhaps you meant something else - "non-copyable"?).

Yeah, meant non-copyable. Basically, the dashes would only exist as display, they wouldn't be characters involved in copying/pasting/processing from that input field.
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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2014, 01:08:35 pm »

Yeah, meant non-copyable. Basically, the dashes would only exist as display, they wouldn't be characters involved in copying/pasting/processing from that input field.

Okay - that makes sense now - assuming that can easily be done using HTML5 then I would think create a basic template that people can use and promote it!
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valarmg

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2014, 02:39:21 pm »

Yeah, meant non-copyable. Basically, the dashes would only exist as display, they wouldn't be characters involved in copying/pasting/processing from that input field.

Okay - that makes sense now - assuming that can easily be done using HTML5 then I would think create a basic template that people can use and promote it!
Okay, I investigated further, and what I proposed doesn't seem straightforward. However, what can be done easily is to make a whole input field selectable regardless of dashes. I just created a simple html input form, and made the whole input selected on a double click below.

<html><body><form>
<p><input type="text" id="accountRS" ondblclick="this.form.accountRS.select();" readonly>NXT-CSED-4PK5-AR4V-6UB5V</p>
</form></body></html>
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 03:05:25 pm by valarmg »
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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2014, 02:47:12 pm »

Will be interested to know if that works on various touch computers - if it does I will work out how to add it to CIYAM Open (as it is annoying that currently you can't use "touch to select" there).
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m30188

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2014, 05:14:40 pm »

Is the numeric version being phased out entirely?
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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2014, 05:36:50 pm »

Is the numeric version being phased out entirely?

The underlying protocol uses the numbers but from a UI perspective those are far less safe (as they have no checksum) so I think you'll see them gradually disappear *from view* (perhaps eventually just for "advanced users").
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Eadeqa

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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2014, 06:44:46 pm »

Although I think it is great that we have the error correction it is a pity that a '-' was used as a separator as you can't just "double click" (or "touch and hold") on addresses for easy clipboard copy. :(

NXT-K4G2-FF32-WLL3-QBGEL

NXTxK4G2xFF32xWLL3xQBGEL

NXToK4G2oFF32oWLL3oQBGEL


Well, URL are not easy to copy with one click either but they work as they are clickable.  The same can be done with Nxt address. If clicking a Nxt address opens it in default client, that will be even better than copy and paste

I think this is perfectly doable as some bloggers have "Online" link on their blogs, and when you click it, it opens yahoo messenger where their yahoo ID is already filed in so you can send a message to them. No copy and paste involved.

Why can't we do the same with Nxt addresses? They could be made clickable both for mobile and desktops and would open in default Nxt client
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 06:46:49 pm by Eadeqa »
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Re: Why two different Account Numbers?
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2014, 07:25:25 pm »

Although I think it is great that we have the error correction it is a pity that a '-' was used as a separator as you can't just "double click" (or "touch and hold") on addresses for easy clipboard copy. :(

NXT-K4G2-FF32-WLL3-QBGEL

NXTxK4G2xFF32xWLL3xQBGEL

NXToK4G2oFF32oWLL3oQBGEL


Well, URL are not easy to copy with one click either but they work as they are clickable.  The same can be done with Nxt address. If clicking a Nxt address opens it in default client, that will be even better than copy and paste

I think this is perfectly doable as some bloggers have "Online" link on their blogs, and when you click it, it opens yahoo messenger where their yahoo ID is already filed in so you can send a message to them. No copy and paste involved.

Why can't we do the same with Nxt addresses? They could be made clickable both for mobile and desktops and would open in default Nxt client

Chrome would select the complete address if we use '_' instead of '-'. So,
NXT_K4G2_FF32_WLL3_QBGEL works. How about other browsers? Hm, Firefox doesn't work...
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