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Tosil

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Whats my NXT Account?
« on: July 18, 2015, 06:17:09 am »

So i installed the wallet and saved the brainwallet. It did not have downloaded the whole blockchain before i went to sleep. Now i need to relogin. But it asks for my nxt account. Nowhere was mentioned that the account address is some kind of password i have to save. So where do i get that from now?

When i click on passphrase and enter the brainwallet then... nothing happens after i click enter or on the arrow. So maybe the wallet wants something different.

So how can i get back in now?

Do i have only one address in nxt?

Can i make the nxt wallet portable? All my other coin wallets are portable too.
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shin

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2015, 09:16:10 am »

Welcome to NXT!

In NXT blockchain you:
1. Have one password (also called passphrase) for one address. Some third party NXT wallets may have 2 factors authentications.
2. Have your wallet everywhere. It is always portable as it's stored in the blockchain.

If you have stored your passphrase somewhere (safe) or if you remember it, then everything is fine. Otherwise, your NXT account might be lost in the blockchain, forever.

Some more specific information about which NXT client you've used to create you NXT address would be useful. Name, version, download link, etc.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 09:19:42 am by shin »
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TheCoinWizard

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2015, 09:25:55 am »

Make sure that you downloaded the whole blockchain in order to check if your bakance is there...

otherwise, just check it online on a nxt blockchain explorer.
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Tosil

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2015, 06:57:03 pm »

I used the official one from nxtblocks info website. cant post links.

So the addresses are safe? Backups and so are handled of as long as i have my brainwallet safe i cant lose my wallet. I cant back up anything?

What about hacks? I cant get it password protected i guess. 2FA would be good too? Can i set it up?

Can i push the files in nxt dir to a portable device?

And without an outgoing transaction is it safe to put shares on it?
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Sebastien256

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2015, 06:59:51 pm »

I used the official one from nxtblocks info website. cant post links.

So the addresses are safe? Backups and so are handled of as long as i have my brainwallet safe i cant lose my wallet. I cant back up anything?

What about hacks? I cant get it password protected i guess. 2FA would be good too? Can i set it up?

Can i push the files in nxt dir to a portable device?

And without an outgoing transaction is it safe to put shares on it?

multisig will be in Nxt 1.6.
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Tosil

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2015, 07:03:25 pm »

What do you mean with that? It doesnt sound like related to my questions. Ah, you maybe mean multisig would allow the usage of 2FA since one of the keys needed to spend would be the 2FA key?
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Sebastien256

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2015, 07:51:08 pm »

What do you mean with that? It doesnt sound like related to my questions. Ah, you maybe mean multisig would allow the usage of 2FA since one of the keys needed to spend would be the 2FA key?

Yes, this is what I mean.  :)
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Tosil

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2015, 09:46:38 am »

So is it safe to put shares or nxt on a wallet, or an address, that doesnt have an outgoing transaction?

It seems there is only one address per wallet, can i have another one so that others cant connect all my investments?

And im not yet sure about safety. I mean on my computer it seems to be the case that i only need to add the nxt-number and im already logged into my wallet. That sounds dangerous since someone might know it at one point. Other wallets at least have password protections. Or does someone has to know the brainwallet in order to spend something?

Can i push the files in nxt dir to a portable device? I would like to have it hidden and not in a public place on my harddrive where it even might reveal my nxt address. Can this be done?
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Jean-Luc

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2015, 11:35:25 am »

So is it safe to put shares or nxt on a wallet, or an address, that doesnt have an outgoing transaction?
No, it is not, unless you also announce the public key of that account with the transaction used to send those shares to it, or another transaction later, but the simplest way is to make an outgoing transaction (even to yourself).
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It seems there is only one address per wallet, can i have another one so that others cant connect all my investments?
There is no wallet. Your passphrase is the only thing needed to send transactions out of your account. This is what brainwallet means. You can have as many accounts as you want, each with a different passphrase. And the client lets you switch easily between them, if you have the account numbers remembered in the browser.
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And im not yet sure about safety. I mean on my computer it seems to be the case that i only need to add the nxt-number and im already logged into my wallet. That sounds dangerous since someone might know it at one point.
This is how all cryptocurrencies work, if you know an account number / bitcoin address you can see its transactions on any block explorer. It is no different than entering a bitcoin address on blockchain.info to trace its transactions.
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Other wallets at least have password protections. Or does someone has to know the brainwallet in order to spend something?
With other coins that use wallets, you need the wallet file (and if encrypted, the password to it). With the default NRS client, you only need the passphrase, there is no wallet file.
Quote
Can i push the files in nxt dir to a portable device? I would like to have it hidden and not in a public place on my harddrive where it even might reveal my nxt address. Can this be done?
Nothing specific to your account is stored in the nxt directory, it will not reveal you address. But account numbers and other settings such as contacts and preferences are stored in the browser local storage, you would need to clear that to keep your account numbers private, make sure the browser does not remember the account used to login, and use logout and clear user data from the logout menu.
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Tosil

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2015, 10:12:41 pm »

Thanks for your answer Jean-Luc. I think what you say about safety of my address is a bit shocking. How can this be? I mean i imagine a huge amount of noobs will not know that the address will be unsafe. And i would have attached a lot of shares to it too now, without knowing it would be unsafe. Or are you rather lose with what unsafe means?

If there is really a risk then it should be pretty easy to implement a routine that automatically secures the address once created.

Is there a free way to secure the address? Since i would need to tell that a number of shareholders that will get their shares attached to nxt. It wouldnt be fun having to explain them that every shareholder first has to buy nxt on an exchange and then send a nxt to his own account in order to secure it. Why such a hurdle?

I really dont get this yet.

And regarding the files, its good that they dont reveal the address. But can i move them to a safe location on computer, then deinstall and still can i use it portable then? I would not want it seeable that a nxt wallet is existent.
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Tosil

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2015, 12:08:35 am »

I now checked out nxt faucets but the only faucet available gave me 3% of the needed amount for a payout.

Then i found nxtinfo org /guides-reviews/guides/announce-public-key/ and it states that i need to propagate my public key in order to raise security. Only thing is... the image shows a public key but my wallet doesnt.

So does this mean my account is already 256bits automatically? I doubt that. I found this site jnxt org/key/ and it looks like one can raise security there. I only need to find my public key...
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Tosil

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2015, 12:16:18 am »

Ok, it seems the public key only shows up when i log in with the passphrase.

Well, nxt really is not ready to go. ::)
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Tosil

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2015, 12:20:59 am »

It worked with the site. The public key doesnt show up anymore. I guess my account is safe now.
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Peter2516

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2015, 07:13:32 am »


I think what you say about safety of my address is a bit shocking. How can this be? I mean i imagine a huge amount of noobs will not know that the address will be unsafe. And i would have attached a lot of shares to it too now, without knowing it would be unsafe. Or are you rather lose with what unsafe means?

Anyone can enter your NXT address in their client, and see what you see when you are logged in. Just like entering the NXT address in a blockexplorer. You see past transactions, open orders, etc. But to DO anything with the account, make any transactions, read encrypted messages, you need to enter the passphrase. Which you know, but other people don't. So it is safe, it is 'read-only' until you enter the passphrase :)
But I agree it's a bit unusual, it seems you are 'logged in' while you are only viewing the account.
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Jean-Luc

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2015, 07:16:24 am »

Ok, it seems the public key only shows up when i log in with the passphrase.
For a new account, there is no other way. The public key can be derived from the password, or it can be looked up on the blockchain. If your account has not had outgoing transactions, and has not had its public key announced with one of the incoming transactions, the public key is not recorded on the blockchain, and can only be found by logging in using the passphrase, not just with the account number.

Accounts without public key published are not exactly unsafe, they are just less safe than theoretically possible, 64-bit versus 256-bit security. There is a number of such accounts on the blockchain, some of them holding enough NXT to be worth stealing, and there was a project to "mine" such "dark NXT" by brute forcing passwords. I don't think they ever managed to mine any of it, or at least it hasn't been publicly announced. It was also estimated that if you have the hardware capacity to mine dark NXT, it is much more cost effective to use this hardware to mine altcoins instead.

If you are going to send assets to shareholders, and want their accounts to be fully secured without them doing anything, when the shareholders give you their account numbers they also need to tell you their public keys, as shown in the client when a new account is created. Then when transferring assets (or sending NXT) to their accounts, enter this public key in the transfer asset dialog, a "recipient public key" field appears automatically when the recipient account does not have a public key announced.

Or, each shareholder can send 1 NXT to himself, which as an outgoing transaction also announces the public key to the blockchain.

Note that those asset shareholders need to have at least some NXT in their accounts in order to do anything with their assets, e.g. place ask/bid orders or transfer them, therefore you would also need to send them some NXT to get started, or instruct them how to get some from a faucet or exchange.
 
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Tosil

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2015, 01:56:49 pm »

Ok, it seems the public key only shows up when i log in with the passphrase.
For a new account, there is no other way. The public key can be derived from the password, or it can be looked up on the blockchain. If your account has not had outgoing transactions, and has not had its public key announced with one of the incoming transactions, the public key is not recorded on the blockchain, and can only be found by logging in using the passphrase, not just with the account number.

Accounts without public key published are not exactly unsafe, they are just less safe than theoretically possible, 64-bit versus 256-bit security. There is a number of such accounts on the blockchain, some of them holding enough NXT to be worth stealing, and there was a project to "mine" such "dark NXT" by brute forcing passwords. I don't think they ever managed to mine any of it, or at least it hasn't been publicly announced. It was also estimated that if you have the hardware capacity to mine dark NXT, it is much more cost effective to use this hardware to mine altcoins instead.

If you are going to send assets to shareholders, and want their accounts to be fully secured without them doing anything, when the shareholders give you their account numbers they also need to tell you their public keys, as shown in the client when a new account is created. Then when transferring assets (or sending NXT) to their accounts, enter this public key in the transfer asset dialog, a "recipient public key" field appears automatically when the recipient account does not have a public key announced.

Or, each shareholder can send 1 NXT to himself, which as an outgoing transaction also announces the public key to the blockchain.

Note that those asset shareholders need to have at least some NXT in their accounts in order to do anything with their assets, e.g. place ask/bid orders or transfer them, therefore you would also need to send them some NXT to get started, or instruct them how to get some from a faucet or exchange.

I think there are no real faucets anymore. I found one working but it gave me only 3% of a nxt. :D

Asking the shareholders for their public key is similar inconvenient like they simply verifying their account themselfes with the website i linked above. Because i need to explain them anyway that the public key can only be seen with logging in with the passphrase. So i think telling them to go to the website and verify is the fastest way.

But still... its not easy. I mean i would like to have it as easy as registering at havelock and there you go.

I stressed that the brainwallet is similar to the private key of bitcoin and their only thing possible to backup and that they need to store it safely in their keepass. And then make backups of its database in the cloud or so.

Its so risky being your own bank. ::) I only wished nxt would be a bit more easy. I mean there is no reason why there shouldnt be a button inside of the wallet that, by clicking, verifies the account and raises password strength to 256bits.
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Tosch110

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2015, 03:25:42 pm »

Ok, it seems the public key only shows up when i log in with the passphrase.
For a new account, there is no other way. The public key can be derived from the password, or it can be looked up on the blockchain. If your account has not had outgoing transactions, and has not had its public key announced with one of the incoming transactions, the public key is not recorded on the blockchain, and can only be found by logging in using the passphrase, not just with the account number.

Accounts without public key published are not exactly unsafe, they are just less safe than theoretically possible, 64-bit versus 256-bit security. There is a number of such accounts on the blockchain, some of them holding enough NXT to be worth stealing, and there was a project to "mine" such "dark NXT" by brute forcing passwords. I don't think they ever managed to mine any of it, or at least it hasn't been publicly announced. It was also estimated that if you have the hardware capacity to mine dark NXT, it is much more cost effective to use this hardware to mine altcoins instead.

If you are going to send assets to shareholders, and want their accounts to be fully secured without them doing anything, when the shareholders give you their account numbers they also need to tell you their public keys, as shown in the client when a new account is created. Then when transferring assets (or sending NXT) to their accounts, enter this public key in the transfer asset dialog, a "recipient public key" field appears automatically when the recipient account does not have a public key announced.

Or, each shareholder can send 1 NXT to himself, which as an outgoing transaction also announces the public key to the blockchain.

Note that those asset shareholders need to have at least some NXT in their accounts in order to do anything with their assets, e.g. place ask/bid orders or transfer them, therefore you would also need to send them some NXT to get started, or instruct them how to get some from a faucet or exchange.

I think there are no real faucets anymore. I found one working but it gave me only 3% of a nxt. :D

Asking the shareholders for their public key is similar inconvenient like they simply verifying their account themselfes with the website i linked above. Because i need to explain them anyway that the public key can only be seen with logging in with the passphrase. So i think telling them to go to the website and verify is the fastest way.

But still... its not easy. I mean i would like to have it as easy as registering at havelock and there you go.

I stressed that the brainwallet is similar to the private key of bitcoin and their only thing possible to backup and that they need to store it safely in their keepass. And then make backups of its database in the cloud or so.

Its so risky being your own bank. ::) I only wished nxt would be a bit more easy. I mean there is no reason why there shouldnt be a button inside of the wallet that, by clicking, verifies the account and raises password strength to 256bits.


That would be nice. Have a transaction, that is required to be the first transaction to an account (called publicKeyAnnouncement). This transaction just costs 0.1 NXT and we create an account with some 20-30k (+200,000 User) NXT that helps strengthening accounts (from NxtFoundation or so).
We could implement this button in the client and everything got a lot easier...

TheCoinWizard

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2015, 03:55:18 pm »

I already see the posts coming... Cannot set account name, cannot do transaction....

Well yeah, ofcourse not noob, you first have to click that publicKeyAnnouncement button in that client, as this one is outdated  :D

I think the 'required' part is moronic.
 ;)
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Tosil

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2015, 08:28:42 pm »

I already see the posts coming... Cannot set account name, cannot do transaction....

Well yeah, ofcourse not noob, you first have to click that publicKeyAnnouncement button in that client, as this one is outdated  :D

I think the 'required' part is moronic.
 ;)

Doesnt need to be required. Only an easy way to secure your account. The other ways still would work and when any of them is done then the public key vanishs as well as the button.

Im a bitcoiner since 2011 and i had to wrap my head through nxt for some time. When someone wants to issue shares on nxt then all the little pieces of info that are different to bitcoin are a hindrancen.

It starts with the brainwallet as a form of private key, only one address per wallet and the address is named account. Insecure address without public key propagation. No easy way in the wallet. (Why not simply link that website i used for now?). Then no backups possible. Only the brainwallet.

Those are things that are different and not too well explained for someone downloading the wallet. And thats not so good for adoption. I mean imagine that... you want to use nxt for your shares and now 100 newbie shareholders need to download nxt wallets. The support will take hours of hours.

I think developers should more often check out he user experience. Seeing everything from inside might not give you the clearest view on everything. I mean on how things are seen from the outside.

Only what i experienced. :P
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Peter2516

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2015, 08:45:16 pm »

Imo NXT is easier to understand for crypto-newbies than BTC.

Because the NXT wallet is more like regular electronic banking, where you have only one (bank)account(number), there's no need to backup wallet-files, you just use your password to access, etc.

But coming from BTC, yes, it is quite different.
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Tosil

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2015, 08:26:43 pm »

Imo NXT is easier to understand for crypto-newbies than BTC.

Because the NXT wallet is more like regular electronic banking, where you have only one (bank)account(number), there's no need to backup wallet-files, you just use your password to access, etc.

But coming from BTC, yes, it is quite different.

Seeing it this way you are right. Except the 256bit thing.
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kwilliams

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2015, 06:33:22 am »

Here's a faucet for announcing public keys: http://jnxt.org/key/
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Tosil

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2015, 02:30:21 pm »

Its not a real faucet, its an activation service only. And i used that and suggested it to the shareholders. They can use it to strengthen their password.

You can use faucets often a day. This is one time use.
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Tosch110

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2015, 03:09:13 pm »

Its not a real faucet, its an activation service only. And i used that and suggested it to the shareholders. They can use it to strengthen their password.

You can use faucets often a day. This is one time use.

Else have a look at:

http://getfreenxt.org

http://freenxt.org

Tosil

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Re: Whats my NXT Account?
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2015, 03:16:33 pm »

I had tested the second faucet but got only 3% of a nxt that way and would have to wait for next try 20 minutes? :D

I think these faucets arent really worth it and the only easy solution to verify is that verification service.
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