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Author Topic: NRS v1.6.2  (Read 95777 times)

EvilDave

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #180 on: November 07, 2015, 11:50:32 pm »

Difficult to understand why devs are talking to Tennessee guys and not directly to the people who are complaining.  Can't see much progress being made through the current process.

J-L and Riker have been listening, but this situation could easily break down into either ego-driven confrontation, or endless technical arguments. It's good to have a buffer in this sort of situation.
Tennessee was set up to help professionalise Nxt marketing, and to improve the overall Nxt user experience, mainly for business use.
We have a stake in the business side of Nxt, as well as a good rapport with the core devs. So Tennessee is in a good positiion to come up with a change management program that will keep everyone happy (almost).

Believe me, I'd much rather be chatting up Bitcoin whales and driving Lambos round conferences, but if SuperNET does split from Nxt, then Tennessee is probably fukt, so there is an element of self-preservation here. :(

Anyway: keep on posting your viewpoints, criticisms, complaints, praise, whatever. 

+1s to Tosch and Lopalcar, btw
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Tosch110

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #181 on: November 07, 2015, 11:57:19 pm »

@tosh
Im not seeing much the overall goal of your post, in the end, the devs agree to review their release managment practice.
Can you be more specific?
I'm just trying to understand really.

Yes, I am not ok with the decision not to roll back the API. And I see two parties loosing if they do.

The developers loose a lot of work (either with implementing changes instead of continuing to work on future products. Or with old scripts/libraries not working anymore).
The Nxt API looses a lot of developers.

v39453

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #182 on: November 08, 2015, 12:09:23 am »

Jean-Luc: the time spent discussing the "incompatible" changes in 1.6.2 already exceeds the time it would have taken to fix supernet and go on

From what I understood the change could have been done by either party in 1 hour, so it's annoying to see a lot of value destroyed because of a trivial point.

Couldn't the forum link at least be kept to 1.5? There might be other API users who get annoyed enough to stop using Nxt. Even if they would do it later anyway, but this would maximize the time the official version has a stable API.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 12:21:01 am by v39453 »
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Sabertooth

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #183 on: November 08, 2015, 12:13:31 am »

Jean-Luc: the time spent discussing the "incompatible" changes in 1.6.2 already exceeds the time it would have taken to fix supernet and go on

From what I understood the change could have been done be either party in 1 hour, so it's annoying to see a lot of value destroyed because of a trial point.

Couldn't the forum link at least be kept to 1.5? There might be other API users who get annoyed enough to stop using Nxt. Even if they would do it later anyway, but this would maximize the time the official version has a stable API.

Ja, I don't know how long it would take but days of crying and bawling around is not very productive and more harmful the the price/community in my opinion.
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pianist

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #184 on: November 08, 2015, 12:28:50 am »

Yes, I am not ok with the decision not to roll back the API.

NRS devs are destroying NXT platform. You can check NXT price for last year, it shows everything.

There are two ways for us:
1. not to update from 1.5.15 and start developing our own Core.
2. to quit and stop working with NXT at all.
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Tosch110

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #185 on: November 08, 2015, 12:43:09 am »

Yes, I am not ok with the decision not to roll back the API.

NRS devs are destroying NXT platform. You can check NXT price for last year, it shows everything.

There are two ways for us:
1. not to update from 1.5.15 and start developing our own Core.
2. to quit and stop working with NXT at all.

There are way more solutions that came up already. Even if it would be unusual. For example:
1. Return the old API (with changing default output) and say "we have been warned" and delay these updates to 1.7 (when there needs to be major changes anyway)
2. Make 1.6.2 experimental again and this way recommend people to use 1.5.15 instead. Giving Software the time to upgrade
3. Create 1.6.3 where the default API is as before and delay changes until 1.6.4 which will be at a certain date.

I could continue this list. But it does not seem that core devs are open to these discussions.

pianist

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #186 on: November 08, 2015, 12:48:01 am »

But it does not seem that core devs are open to these discussions.

Bingo!

That's why I see only two ways:
1. sabotage by NXT holders (forgers)
2. to abandon ship
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maddy83

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #187 on: November 08, 2015, 01:00:33 am »

Yes, I am not ok with the decision not to roll back the API.

NRS devs are destroying NXT platform. You can check NXT price for last year, it shows everything.

There are two ways for us:
1. not to update from 1.5.15 and start developing our own Core.
2. to quit and stop working with NXT at all.

That's a bit extreme. Different parties are trying to find a compromise and way forward, your comments do nothing but hurt NXT.

But it does not seem that core devs are open to these discussions.

Bingo!

That's why I see only two ways:
1. sabotage by NXT holders (forgers)
2. to abandon ship

Again, why are you trying to sabotage NXT?
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yassin54

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #188 on: November 08, 2015, 01:02:28 am »


we need a Vote!!  ;D ;D


« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 01:08:24 am by yassin54 »
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pianist

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #189 on: November 08, 2015, 01:14:24 am »

Again, why are you trying to sabotage NXT?

not NXT, but NRS devs!

if NRS devs can change API, they can fork blockchain any time they want.

There is bottleneck in NXT: "official website", so NXT is centralized.

Moreover, NXT holders are not able to choose THEIR version of blockchain, because NRS guys will hardcode any chain they want to choose.

I think NXT was good experiment which prooved that PoS is unreliable.
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nexern

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #190 on: November 08, 2015, 01:41:43 am »

@Jean-Luc
is there a need to change the db backend soon or do you think you can handle the growing
query complexity (which are expensive ofc) still with H2 for a while?

what about an efficient pruning strategy or perhaps fine granulated api call restrictions,
granted via config file on open nodes?
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Jimmy2011

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #191 on: November 08, 2015, 04:27:49 am »

Yes, I am not ok with the decision not to roll back the API.

NRS devs are destroying NXT platform. You can check NXT price for last year, it shows everything.

There are two ways for us:
1. not to update from 1.5.15 and start developing our own Core.
2. to quit and stop working with NXT at all.

There are way more solutions that came up already. Even if it would be unusual. For example:
1. Return the old API (with changing default output) and say "we have been warned" and delay these updates to 1.7 (when there needs to be major changes anyway)
2. Make 1.6.2 experimental again and this way recommend people to use 1.5.15 instead. Giving Software the time to upgrade
3. Create 1.6.3 where the default API is as before and delay changes until 1.6.4 which will be at a certain date.

I could continue this list. But it does not seem that core devs are open to these discussions.

Create 1.6.3 where the default API is as before and delay changes until 1.6.4 which will be at a certain date.

I think it is a right way to minimize the loss in the whole ecosystem. Both of the core devs and the third project owners have their own perspectives/reasons to do their right things, but it's difficult to meet both of their targets. The change needs time, and they need time to calm down and start the action. The discussions also take time. During this period of time, the end users don't always know that, and they just get the broken api, so they own their votes to wait or give up Nxt ecosystem. If the end user of Supernet or other projects leave, it leads more worries for the project owners/leaders, so they will blame more on Nxt core devs, which is a negative effect cycle. On the other hand, V1.6.3 with default API as before will makes all projects work well, and we just make a small delay of 1.6.X and 1.7, but we have the end users to support all the ecosystem. After 1.6.3, all parties can go on discussions and make their own changes, and go on with a great process.

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pianist

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #192 on: November 08, 2015, 05:50:36 am »

Create 1.6.3 where the default API is as before and delay changes until 1.6.4 which will be at a certain date.

They won't do this!

Their goal is to do hurt to alt clients, they want to be a small center of "decentralized NXT world".

Moreover, they are angry children and want to sell software for private blockchains, and to make NXT as testnet.

Ethereum is coming and think assets will move there. Another way — to use colored coins.

NXT was interesting project, but as for me it is better to keep aloof from NRS devs.
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Eth

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #193 on: November 08, 2015, 05:54:49 am »

Difficult to understand why devs are talking to Tennessee guys and not directly to the people who are complaining.  Can't see much progress being made through the current process.

100% agreed.

This has become not a technical procedure problem, but an ego problem.

Eth.
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JohnHolmes

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #194 on: November 08, 2015, 06:16:38 am »

Difficult to understand why devs are talking to Tennessee guys and not directly to the people who are complaining.  Can't see much progress being made through the current process.

100% agreed.

This has become not a technical procedure problem, but an ego problem.

Eth.

It's called 'mediation'.

People on both sides are upset and pissed off at being mis-understood, and things could escalate into something awful very quickly if we're not careful. I don't see any 'ego problem' here, but i do think jl777 and Jean-Luc are THE most important guys working in the NXT-o-sphere at the moment, and they've both invested a shit load of effort into NXT for nearly two years now, so I say we send both of them our best wishes and respect.

Showing passion and commitment is NOT the same as an 'ego problem' IMO. This looks like a communication problem over technical details and procedural matters, and NXT is decentralized, so it's hard.

I'm feeling good that the Tennessee guys are on the job!!

« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 06:20:17 am by JohnHolmes »
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maddy83

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #195 on: November 08, 2015, 07:12:12 am »

Create 1.6.3 where the default API is as before and delay changes until 1.6.4 which will be at a certain date.

They won't do this!

Their goal is to do hurt to alt clients, they want to be a small center of "decentralized NXT world".

Moreover, they are angry children and want to sell software for private blockchains, and to make NXT as testnet.

Ethereum is coming and think assets will move there. Another way — to use colored coins.

NXT was interesting project, but as for me it is better to keep aloof from NRS devs.

You may disagree with Jean-Luc, but show some respect, after everything J-L has done for NXT.

Your posts are very offensive, why are the mods not stepping in?
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pianist

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #196 on: November 08, 2015, 07:37:42 am »

but show some respect, after everything J-L has done for NXT.

No respect at all. They started DECENTRALIZED project and now they are trying to change rules, to change the future of NXT blockchain.

The market answer is here:

https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_nxt

And here — NXT capitalization is below $7M:

http://coinmarketcap.com/

Next step $5M.
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pianist

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #197 on: November 08, 2015, 07:44:13 am »

why are the mods not stepping in?

Do you want to become NXT forum like this?


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Seccour

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #198 on: November 08, 2015, 07:57:00 am »

Create 1.6.3 where the default API is as before and delay changes until 1.6.4 which will be at a certain date.

They won't do this!

Their goal is to do hurt to alt clients, they want to be a small center of "decentralized NXT world".

Moreover, they are angry children and want to sell software for private blockchains, and to make NXT as testnet.

Ethereum is coming and think assets will move there. Another way — to use colored coins.

NXT was interesting project, but as for me it is better to keep aloof from NRS devs.

It's not the dev fault ( not 100% ), if you upgrade your software to a new version first check what the change are. Mostly if you are a company or a big project use by a lot of people.

The problem come from the project operator that didn't test before upgrading, and from the dev for not well comunicated. Now we need to move forward.

Projects must adapt to the platform, not the opposite. And the platform need to move forward. And to do this, they need to change the API.
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crimi

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Re: NRS v1.6.2
« Reply #199 on: November 08, 2015, 07:59:28 am »

Again, why are you trying to sabotage NXT?

not NXT, but NRS devs!

if NRS devs can change API, they can fork blockchain any time they want.

There is bottleneck in NXT: "official website", so NXT is centralized.

Moreover, NXT holders are not able to choose THEIR version of blockchain, because NRS guys will hardcode any chain they want to choose.

I think NXT was good experiment which prooved that PoS is unreliable.

That's total nonsense, you could start today a Nxt XT fork with changes in fees for example, you might get 70% of the current Nxt userbase but who is maintaining the branch? You? Most people here have other full time jobs.
Nxt is at the current state not a hardcoded protocol like bitcoin and nothing is really set in stone. This has the disadvantage that you have "nrs core client maximalism", all other nxt wallet client developers abandoned there projects. This trend will continue in my opinion till  NRS development will be opend and jean-luc gives a little of his power to other developers. The advantage with the current strategy is that you can develop the nxt roadmap "faster".
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