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3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
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Author Topic: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)  (Read 79431 times)

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #260 on: August 17, 2014, 12:56:05 am »

i don't have the answers but...

never deal with thieves (*especially* when they have already fucked you over once)

bter was incompetent with its security and then its negotiations. at this stage bter probably should not be trusted either

300BTC is a lot of money for a bounty and he has been sloppy. success is likely. plus a bounty shows strength and deters future hacks

i think we can all agree thesir probably has a small penis ;)
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sparta_cuss

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #261 on: August 17, 2014, 12:59:36 am »

I think it's a mistake to focus too much on the 50 million. There are many whales who, together, control far far more. How many of them are watching Nxt right now, prepared to dump many times 50 million if Nxt does something that causes them to lose faith in Nxt? It's a hypothetical question, of course, but it serves to remind us that not only do we not really know what the thief will do with his loot (dump, save, sell slowly), we have no idea what any of the other big and small investors will do. Thinking that we understand the thief's plans is just another trap of focusing too much on market price and not enough on the integrity of the product (which is amazing) and the story of decentralized, collaborative invention (which is also quite incredible).
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nextcafe

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #262 on: August 17, 2014, 01:03:29 am »

We need a hotline to the bter people right now!

They started this thread and should be considering option 4, if and 1 and 2 are not currently feasible.
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frohlocke

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #263 on: August 17, 2014, 01:04:50 am »



i think we can all agree thesir probably has a small penis ;)

Agreed: His small penis is small. :D

Source
https://nxtblocks.info/#section/txid/2477617738393289065
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 01:31:37 am by frohlocke »
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sparta_cuss

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #264 on: August 17, 2014, 01:19:27 am »

I also like Option 4 (the James/Lee asset creation option). I had about 1% of my Nxt worth on Bter, which isn't much compared to many others. I would be willing to buy the stolenNXT equal to 2% of my Nxt worth. In fact, I'll send it now if someone wants to provide escrow. The commitment conditions include having an asset that is acceptable to James. He said he would write it up, so that should not be a problem. I would also like some commitments from Bter that they will clean up their act - put new security measures in place, and be audited by security experts, for example. This is something they would have to do, anyway, to regain the trust of potential investors.

Does Option 4 punish the thief or recover the NXT? No. But I don't think Option 3 is the way to go. Like QBTC and crimi, I am very suspicious of a plan so heavily promoted by the very exchange that was harmed. I do not want to set a precedent of letting centralized exchanges have so much influence over what Nxt does with its blockchain.

If this escrow thing and getting Option 4 off the ground is something that catches fire, we can iron out the details as we go. I just wanted to make a pledge of some funds to begin making Option 4 a reality. If you also support Option 4, speak up here and pledge something, a percentage or amount, so we can see where we are.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 01:23:51 am by sparta_cuss »
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WolfofCrypto

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #265 on: August 17, 2014, 01:20:11 am »

Whats option 4

We need a hotline to the bter people right now!

They started this thread and should be considering option 4, if and 1 and 2 are not currently feasible.
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sparta_cuss

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #266 on: August 17, 2014, 01:22:24 am »

Whats option 4

We need a hotline to the bter people right now!

They started this thread and should be considering option 4, if and 1 and 2 are not currently feasible.

Option 4 is the one James wrote up, inspired, he said, by your proposal, for Bter to issue a stolenNXT asset.
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jl777

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #267 on: August 17, 2014, 01:25:53 am »

I also like Option 4 (the James/Lee asset creation option). I had about 1% of my Nxt worth on Bter, which isn't much compared to many others. I would be willing to buy the stolenNXT equal to 2% of my Nxt worth. In fact, I'll send it now if someone wants to provide escrow. The commitment conditions include having an asset that is acceptable to James. He said he would write it up, so that should not be a problem. I would also like some commitments from Bter that they will clean up their act - put new security measures in place, and be audited by security experts, for example. This is something they would have to do, anyway, to regain the trust of potential investors.

Does Option 4 punish the thief or recover the NXT? No. But I don't think Option 3 is the way to go. Like QBTC and crimi, I am very suspicious of a plan so heavily promoted by the very exchange that was harmed. I do not want to set a precedent of letting centralized exchanges have so much influence over what Nxt does with it's blockchain.

If this escrow thing and getting Option 4 off the ground is something that catches fire, we can iron out the details as we go. I just wanted to make a pledge of some funds to begin making Option 4 a reality. If you also support Option 4, speak up here and pledge something, a percentage or amount, so we can see where we are.
As soon as there is enough support for option 4, I will issue the stolenNXT asset and I am assuming bter will be able to get me a list of accounts/amounts. If not, I am not sure how to properly distribute the stolenNXT

Once the stolenNXT is issued and distributed, then the free market decides when people want to collect on whatever bid there is.

I can keepsafe any funds raised, but really just need to put bids in AE no need to send any funds anywhere. As soon as I get the distribution list, the stolenNXT gets dividended out and the long road to clearing out the stolenNXT can begin. As soon as bter has purchased all the stolenNXT, this asset will cease to exist, I suggest that bter would send to genesis any stolenNXT they purchase back

James
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rickyjames

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #268 on: August 17, 2014, 01:38:47 am »


As soon as there is enough support for option 4, I will issue the stolenNXT asset and I am assuming bter will be able to get me a list of accounts/amounts.... As soon as bter has purchased all the stolenNXT, this asset will cease to exist, I suggest that bter would send to genesis any stolenNXT they purchase back

James

It looks to me like a new stolenNXT asset is effectively an installment plan for Bter to pay off their losses to their customers.  Unfortunately, this gives Bter a reason to want NXT price to go to near-zero so they can pay off as cheaply as possible.  Also, to pay off 45M NXT they've got to move around 4.5 billion NXT across their exchange to make enough in fees at 1% to make the payoff.  That's gonna take a while. 

If ever there was a time for a vote, it's BEFORE any new stolenNXT asset is issued.  The order here is NOT "create the asset, get the list of owners from Bter, distribute the asset to wronged Bter customers."   The order is "Get the list of wronged customers, do a vote to see if THEY want a stolenNXT asset to be issued, THEN do what the vote says".

I'll kick off the fun here - one vote per Bter customer or one vote per stolen NXT?

James, this mess isn't even 48 hours old and you are already taking on the role of a lawyer filing a class action suit.  You are truly a jack of all trades.   
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 01:41:12 am by rickyjames »
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rickyjames

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #269 on: August 17, 2014, 01:42:48 am »

We need a hotline to the bter people right now!


freeworm is online.  But now thesircom is not.  Sigh.
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jl777

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #270 on: August 17, 2014, 01:43:48 am »


As soon as there is enough support for option 4, I will issue the stolenNXT asset and I am assuming bter will be able to get me a list of accounts/amounts.... As soon as bter has purchased all the stolenNXT, this asset will cease to exist, I suggest that bter would send to genesis any stolenNXT they purchase back

James

It looks to me like a new stolenNXT asset is effectively an installment plan for Bter to pay off their losses to their customers.  Unfortunately, this gives Bter a reason to want NXT price to go to near-zero so they can pay off as cheaply as possible.  Also, to pay off 45M NXT they've got to move around 4.5 billion NXT across their exchange to make enough in fees to make the payoff.  That's gonna take a while. 

If ever there was a time for a vote, it's BEFORE any new stolenNXT asset is issued.  The order here is NOT "create the asset, get the list of owners from Bter, distribute the asset to wronged Bter customers."   The order is "Get the list of wronged customers, do a vote to see if THEY want a stolenNXT asset to be issued, THEN do what the vote says".

I'll kick off the fun here - one vote per Bter customer or one vote per stolen NXT?

James, this mess isn't even 48 hours old and you are already taking on the role of a lawyer filing a class action suit.  You are truly a jack of all trades.   
I am just a simple C programmer trying to use some math to solve this. Also I am proposing a percentage from ALL of bter trade commissions, not just NXT. The are doing ~10000 BTC per week so that is 20 BTC per week if 50% goes to the repurchase. Estimated 3 year payback, but a lot of people will take the bid at a discount, so I am estimating closer to one year payback at these rates.

The alternative for bter is the loss of ~90% of their business. That is just a guess, but my intuition returns such a number when I think about the scenario of bter not coming up with a believable plan for makegood.

James
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S3MKi

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #271 on: August 17, 2014, 01:49:26 am »

guys use 1.2.5f please. i had 121kNXT on bter. U see that hacker don't want deal with bter.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 02:00:45 am by S3MKi »
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nextcafe

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #272 on: August 17, 2014, 01:52:22 am »

We need a hotline to the bter people right now!


freeworm is online.  But now thesircom is not.  Sigh.

The order here is NOT "create the asset, get the list of owners from Bter, distribute the asset to wronged Bter customers."   The order is "Get the list of wronged customers, do a vote to see if THEY want a stolenNXT asset to be issued, THEN do what the vote says".


This

I wonder how much of the 50 mil is user funds vs bter holdings, accounting for the 5mil payed back of course.

« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 01:56:56 am by nextcafe »
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jefdiesel

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #273 on: August 17, 2014, 01:57:03 am »

OOH Ricky, missed you, sorry this pain brought you back. Hope you didn't have too much on Bter..

I had a good handful on Bter, ~30k for trading, and I'm definitely going to say 1NXT 1 Vote (like always)
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zingzong

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #274 on: August 17, 2014, 02:01:24 am »


As soon as there is enough support for option 4, I will issue the stolenNXT asset and I am assuming bter will be able to get me a list of accounts/amounts.... As soon as bter has purchased all the stolenNXT, this asset will cease to exist, I suggest that bter would send to genesis any stolenNXT they purchase back

James

It looks to me like a new stolenNXT asset is effectively an installment plan for Bter to pay off their losses to their customers.  Unfortunately, this gives Bter a reason to want NXT price to go to near-zero so they can pay off as cheaply as possible.  Also, to pay off 45M NXT they've got to move around 4.5 billion NXT across their exchange to make enough in fees at 1% to make the payoff.  That's gonna take a while. 

If ever there was a time for a vote, it's BEFORE any new stolenNXT asset is issued.  The order here is NOT "create the asset, get the list of owners from Bter, distribute the asset to wronged Bter customers."   The order is "Get the list of wronged customers, do a vote to see if THEY want a stolenNXT asset to be issued, THEN do what the vote says".

I'll kick off the fun here - one vote per Bter customer or one vote per stolen NXT?

James, this mess isn't even 48 hours old and you are already taking on the role of a lawyer filing a class action suit.  You are truly a jack of all trades.   

Its too early to be going down this road, negotiation is in process!!!! When we do yes a vote first for sure and id say definitely 1 vote per stolen NXT , or to make it easier 1 Vote per every 1000 or less NXT.
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rickyjames

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #275 on: August 17, 2014, 02:07:01 am »

OOH Ricky, missed you, sorry this pain brought you back. Hope you didn't have too much on Bter..

I had a good handful on Bter, ~30k for trading, and I'm definitely going to say 1NXT 1 Vote (like always)

Thanks, pal, nice to be missed.  I am just now coming out of a catatonic state from another coin loss several weeks ago to an anonymous SOB I'm still tracking down.   I had 450K NXT of skin in the game on this one.  Lucky I'm still feeling numb and shellshocked or it would hurt more.

I'm going to go to the Sonic down the street for a chocolate milkshake and then I'm going to bed.  My level of frustration is so high lately I could just blow a gasket.  I feel like these gifs, my only problem is I just don't know who I want to slap the most right now.

http://uproxx.com/tv/2012/06/20-awesome-television-bitch-slap-gifs/

 
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jl777

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #276 on: August 17, 2014, 02:14:54 am »


As soon as there is enough support for option 4, I will issue the stolenNXT asset and I am assuming bter will be able to get me a list of accounts/amounts.... As soon as bter has purchased all the stolenNXT, this asset will cease to exist, I suggest that bter would send to genesis any stolenNXT they purchase back

James

It looks to me like a new stolenNXT asset is effectively an installment plan for Bter to pay off their losses to their customers.  Unfortunately, this gives Bter a reason to want NXT price to go to near-zero so they can pay off as cheaply as possible.  Also, to pay off 45M NXT they've got to move around 4.5 billion NXT across their exchange to make enough in fees at 1% to make the payoff.  That's gonna take a while. 

If ever there was a time for a vote, it's BEFORE any new stolenNXT asset is issued.  The order here is NOT "create the asset, get the list of owners from Bter, distribute the asset to wronged Bter customers."   The order is "Get the list of wronged customers, do a vote to see if THEY want a stolenNXT asset to be issued, THEN do what the vote says".

I'll kick off the fun here - one vote per Bter customer or one vote per stolen NXT?

James, this mess isn't even 48 hours old and you are already taking on the role of a lawyer filing a class action suit.  You are truly a jack of all trades.   

Its too early to be going down this road, negotiation is in process!!!! When we do yes a vote first for sure and id say definitely 1 vote per stolen NXT , or to make it easier 1 Vote per every 1000 or less NXT.
It is never too early to reassure people that there is a plan to maximize the amount of money they will be able to salvage. The longer this drags on, the less likely for bter to survive. If they can make fast decision, get a plan in place to makegood, then their reputation is intact and even battle tested.
Whatever amounts are negotiated, stolenNXT asset can be used to distribute fairly and according to each persons acceptance/rejection of current bid vs uncertainity of future

But, that is just my opinion, I have been known to be wrong
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jefdiesel

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #277 on: August 17, 2014, 02:22:32 am »

On one hand, Bter could collapse and no one gets anything, on the other hand this Asset might not be what all bagholders want to vote for.

BUT as James says, making an asset is a solid start, and if it ONLY represents the StolenNXT, and no plan or rate forced upon us now.
Bter can make a good show and hope to pull through this
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cobaltskky

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #278 on: August 17, 2014, 02:29:29 am »

you are from Chojnice, Poland?
No. Right now - I'm from Hamilton, Canada.

Cool.  You're about five hours from me.  Want to get lunch some time?
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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #279 on: August 17, 2014, 02:38:37 am »


I'm sorry. I need to say option 1 or 2 is the right choice for healthy Nxt though the hacker may dump them and hurt Nxt a little in the short term.

Tomorrow is another day.
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