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Author Topic: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)  (Read 97771 times)

Coradan

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #160 on: August 16, 2014, 10:00:59 pm »

1.2.5f forging!  All is ok: Number the NXT, number de Assets,...!  This solution would be easier and cheaper!
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zingzong

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #161 on: August 16, 2014, 10:05:49 pm »

@Graviton
Quote
What exactly will cause the bad rep? NXT community choosing to reverse an undeniable, large hack just once?

Did you miss vericoin? They are done in cryptoworld.

Nxt is not vericoin.

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/vericoin-developer-believe-nxt-chain-rolled-back/2014/08/15

VeriCoin Developer: “The NXT Chain Should Not Be Rolled Back”
Quote
“Because of this, I believe that the NXT chain should not be rolled back. We rolled back not to save the owners who held coin on Mintpal, but to preserve the integrity of the chain by preventing an illicit holder from attacking it.”

If there is no technical reason devs can not manipulate the blockchain.

Yeah but whats being proposed isnt a rollback. its a fork which just freezes the hackers stolen nxt
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apenzl

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #162 on: August 16, 2014, 10:07:04 pm »

A 200 BTC "bounty" for the Nxt Community if we choose 1.2.5ef? Amazing.
I've been in a moral dilemma until now, but wtf??! It looks to me as BTer wants to buy the community will. I don't like being bribed.

I vote 1 > 2.
And of course for James' #4. Well thought out.

Just on a side note:
It's a VERY slippery slope Graviton... Very. (besides you wanting to use CUSTOMER deposits, which aren't yours!)

Forging for NXT > Fine.
Choosing blockchain history with customer funds is something else.
Nxters haven't chosen your exchange to make you decide for them in important matters like this. Maybe you should act carefully?

Same thing goes for forging hub admins - they should post their plan / choice of NRS here, ASAP. Imho.

I've checked

https://blockchain.info/address/1BCN1ugdKdWd9pQ8Am9hMhtHZfmbXzxE8a

and

https://blockchain.info/address/125EJ3HYXNZ8swr2UBcvKNBV2voAYACFu9

No messages from BCNext here. He would say us what to do - to fork or not to fork. At least this worked the last time. Maybe he just has not heard about the hack yet.  ;D
Wasn't Santa dead???   ;D

zingzong

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #163 on: August 16, 2014, 10:07:47 pm »

Has anyone ascertained if it makes a difference how much is in yr wallet?
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apenzl

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #164 on: August 16, 2014, 10:10:41 pm »

Actually QTBC iv been into NXT since November 2013 well before this forum even existed, paid between 700 - 1400 sats so ill ignore that thanx

Has anyone ascertained if it makes a difference how much is in yr wallet?

 ???

zingzong

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #165 on: August 16, 2014, 10:12:34 pm »

Actually QTBC iv been into NXT since November 2013 well before this forum even existed, paid between 700 - 1400 sats so ill ignore that thanx

Has anyone ascertained if it makes a difference how much is in yr wallet?

 ???

as in how much yr forging with when on 1-2-5f
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zuqka

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #166 on: August 16, 2014, 10:12:59 pm »

Actually QTBC iv been into NXT since November 2013 well before this forum even existed, paid between 700 - 1400 sats so ill ignore that thanx

Has anyone ascertained if it makes a difference how much is in yr wallet?

 ???

hehe ;D
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rickyjames

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #167 on: August 16, 2014, 10:15:01 pm »

I propose free escrow service to do option 1.

This is how it should be done:

1. I publish my BTC and NXT accounts
2. BTER sends 200 BTC to my BTC account (after that it doesn't control these coins)
3. We are waiting for a reply from the hacker (24 hours), the reply must be a public message with his BTC account from NXT-8WJ7-8A2H-MBYN-3W9K4 to my NXT account
4. The hacker sends 46'662'000 NXT to my account
5. I send 200 BTC to his BTC account
6. I send 46+ M NXT to BTER cold wallet that already got 5 M NXT

So, if the hacker trusts me we could do it this way (the 200 BTC are not mine anyway if he worries that I could break the deal).


@ thesircom:

This is BY FAR the best deal you are going to get.  The only other ways this plays out is either BTC is given not to you but instead to others to hunt you down, or NXT is taken away from your control.   Or both.

DO THIS.  DO IT WHILE YOU STILL CAN.  DO IT NOW.


« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 10:22:06 pm by rickyjames »
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Graviton

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #168 on: August 16, 2014, 10:17:20 pm »

Choosing blockchain history with customer funds is something else.
Nxters haven't chosen your exchange to make you decide for them in important matters like this. Maybe you should act carefully?
I do.

Should you read more carefully? ;)

apparently it doesn't make difference if you forge on a node with 1 NXT or 29 million NXT. So I can forge with my 1 NXT and not the exchange funds.

Has anyone ascertained if it makes a difference how much is in yr wallet?
No. Just rumors. Excellent question.
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apenzl

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #169 on: August 16, 2014, 10:21:00 pm »

Should you read more carefully? ;)

I should. Too much catching up. Done.  :)

starik69

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #170 on: August 16, 2014, 10:41:41 pm »

BTER guy behaves very strangly.  :o
First - supports reorg, then refuses it in twitter.  ::) Now again supports 1.2.5f.  :-[
And ignores most questions about hacker.  >:(
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Coradan

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #171 on: August 16, 2014, 10:41:53 pm »

I propose free escrow service to do option 1.

This is how it should be done:

1. I publish my BTC and NXT accounts
2. BTER sends 200 BTC to my BTC account (after that it doesn't control these coins)
3. We are waiting for a reply from the hacker (24 hours), the reply must be a public message with his BTC account from NXT-8WJ7-8A2H-MBYN-3W9K4 to my NXT account
4. The hacker sends 46'662'000 NXT to my account
5. I send 200 BTC to his BTC account
6. I send 46+ M NXT to BTER cold wallet that already got 5 M NXT

So, if the hacker trusts me we could do it this way (the 200 BTC are not mine anyway if he worries that I could break the deal).



CfB, you can delete the point 3 perhaps, I think it is not neccesary...  and you can write the point 5: I send 200 BTC to his BTC account (13UZjKkhHWyTmQ4mx28WT5Wj1zw4pEByZw)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 10:44:09 pm by Coradan »
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johnna

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #172 on: August 16, 2014, 10:48:03 pm »

Option 1 (or option 2) only, as I already said, it was BTer's fault, not a NXT's one.
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LeChatNoir

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #173 on: August 16, 2014, 10:53:40 pm »

If NXT hard fork succeeds trust in NXT will evaporate and market cap will decrease by 20% minimum.
20% of 30M $ is 6M $ of value which is destroyed just to recover 1.5M $ from the hacker, this is a very stupid move.
Why would a rational stakeholder want to pay the bill for BTER mistake?

I'm forging on the original blockchain and i will dump my stake if the hard fork option 3 succeeds.
I'm sorry for NXT users who will lose money because of this.

I vote for option 1, give the hacker 24 hours and after that go with option 2 if he doesn't accept the deal.
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WolfofCrypto

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #174 on: August 16, 2014, 10:59:36 pm »

I can add a twist to this

They should put the asset on the Exchange Asset VS BTC this way people can sell at no loss and the token is exchangeable for all therefore it makes no difference.

What could be very shocking is if the token gets more  value than NXT itself

there are some other options to bring stability to this proposal as well which would mean less financial stress to Bter

If they would look at my concept well somebody has James

it's wrong of Bter to expect NXT to totaly damage itself by doig forks and rollback that means NXT drops to the floor this would then mean Bter is able to buy highly reduced NXT to refund users as NXT would be killed rollback or fork its the same kill the image of NXT

2 options

Bter has the cash flot

Create asset token with some legal requirements via the asset exchange.

This safety net has enormous marketing potential and will rebuild trust for users in Bter



The fourth solution:

Issue 51.x million stolenNXT assets and distribute them proportionally to the people who had the deposits in bter. This idea I copied from Lee.

Now, if any negotiations/bounty hunting/etc. gets all the NXT back, it is simple, put a bid on NXT AE at 1 NXT per 1 stolenNXT. 5 million NXT has already been recovered, so the initial bid should be ~0.1 NXT per stolenNXT. Those that are happy to recoup anything are then free to accept this bid, they get a guaranteed 10% back, the others will get a higher chance for full recovery.

Since full recovery from hacker is no 100% certain event, it is bter's responsibility to makegood the difference. This is what Tristan at Poloniex did, though 100 BTC vs 50 million NXT is so much different we cant compare the two, still bter used to be a significant exchange and if it can come up with a plan to make everybody whole, it will survive this. If not, I estimate chances of bter to become an irrelevant small exchange to be 90%+

sorry, freeworm, this is the reality. If bter does not have a plan that will make its depositors whole, you will lose 90%+ of all your other trading volumes and I doubt you will survive.

So, it is in bter's interest to make sure all NXT holders are repaid. I understand 50 45 million NXT is enormous amount, but if you can assure people that in spite of this impossible situation you have a plan with very good chance of success, then bter will become very well respected and will be able to not only survive but even become more popular.

This is what needs to be done. Allocate HALF your revenues to repurchase the stolenNXT. Each week, increase the bid for the stolenNXT by half your revenues added to the repurchase amount. So if you are doing 10000 BTC of trading in a week, at 0.2% commission on each side, 20 BTC is added to the bid of the stolenNXT. this will not be much of a change for one week, but over time, especially if your volumes grow as this becomes a way for the general crypto community to help out just by using bter for their trading, cuz they can trust bter to makegood. If your trading volumes double, then you actually are making the same revenues. Much better than 90% reductions.

let us work the numbers.

20 BTC @ 15000 NXT/BTC is 300,000 NXT per week, this is 150 weeks or three years. A long, long time, but this is much better than never.

Also, I expect that as the bid for the stolenNXT keeps increasing, more and more people will be selling and every sale below 1:1 is reducing this debt, so I estimate that if you can be adding 300K NXT per week, it will actually clear out the debt in closer to a year's time. If you get massive positive PR and a sympathy trading business, then maybe it could be much faster.

I hope that freeworm will be realistic and open to this plan. I will help how I can for the structuring of this

James
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joseginxt

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #175 on: August 16, 2014, 11:08:49 pm »

The hacker may not answer whether their work was 'hijack' 50 million NXT to cause a large drop in price or volatility.

Who are you that could be interested?
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Coradan

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #176 on: August 16, 2014, 11:14:00 pm »

Match Results:
1.2.5: 112 - 17 :1.2.5f

Go, Go!!!
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thesircom

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #177 on: August 16, 2014, 11:14:47 pm »

1. too low.
2. not possible.
3. kills nxt.
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Coradan

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #178 on: August 16, 2014, 11:17:03 pm »

1. too low.
2. not possible.
3. kills nxt.

hehehe!
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Jacinto

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #179 on: August 16, 2014, 11:18:36 pm »

Here we go again.
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