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3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
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Author Topic: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)  (Read 84661 times)

Micky

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #120 on: August 16, 2014, 09:07:11 pm »

Why? Dgex has been forging from beginning, I think.
No, just occasionally unintended.

We are considering forging for 1.2.5f though with 29M.

Good Man!!!!

+1000 Very good!!!
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zingzong

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #121 on: August 16, 2014, 09:08:59 pm »

So now we have exchanges with large holdings deciding to lead a hard fork against community consensus of yesterday?

Whether I agree personally with the outcome of yesterdays decision by Nxt forgers or not, this turn of events troubles me very much.

Seems more like a coup.

Actually the majority voted for a fork, it was abandoned as bter said they could handle it which they obviously couldnt
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jl777

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #122 on: August 16, 2014, 09:09:13 pm »

The fourth solution:

Issue 51.x million stolenNXT assets and distribute them proportionally to the people who had the deposits in bter. This idea I copied from Lee.

Now, if any negotiations/bounty hunting/etc. gets all the NXT back, it is simple, put a bid on NXT AE at 1 NXT per 1 stolenNXT. 5 million NXT has already been recovered, so the initial bid should be ~0.1 NXT per stolenNXT. Those that are happy to recoup anything are then free to accept this bid, they get a guaranteed 10% back, the others will get a higher chance for full recovery.

Since full recovery from hacker is no 100% certain event, it is bter's responsibility to makegood the difference. This is what Tristan at Poloniex did, though 100 BTC vs 50 million NXT is so much different we cant compare the two, still bter used to be a significant exchange and if it can come up with a plan to make everybody whole, it will survive this. If not, I estimate chances of bter to become an irrelevant small exchange to be 90%+

sorry, freeworm, this is the reality. If bter does not have a plan that will make its depositors whole, you will lose 90%+ of all your other trading volumes and I doubt you will survive.

So, it is in bter's interest to make sure all NXT holders are repaid. I understand 50 45 million NXT is enormous amount, but if you can assure people that in spite of this impossible situation you have a plan with very good chance of success, then bter will become very well respected and will be able to not only survive but even become more popular.

This is what needs to be done. Allocate HALF your revenues to repurchase the stolenNXT. Each week, increase the bid for the stolenNXT by half your revenues added to the repurchase amount. So if you are doing 10000 BTC of trading in a week, at 0.2% commission on each side, 20 BTC is added to the bid of the stolenNXT. this will not be much of a change for one week, but over time, especially if your volumes grow as this becomes a way for the general crypto community to help out just by using bter for their trading, cuz they can trust bter to makegood. If your trading volumes double, then you actually are making the same revenues. Much better than 90% reductions.

let us work the numbers.

20 BTC @ 15000 NXT/BTC is 300,000 NXT per week, this is 150 weeks or three years. A long, long time, but this is much better than never.

Also, I expect that as the bid for the stolenNXT keeps increasing, more and more people will be selling and every sale below 1:1 is reducing this debt, so I estimate that if you can be adding 300K NXT per week, it will actually clear out the debt in closer to a year's time. If you get massive positive PR and a sympathy trading business, then maybe it could be much faster.

I hope that freeworm will be realistic and open to this plan. I will help how I can for the structuring of this

James
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Coradan

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #123 on: August 16, 2014, 09:13:02 pm »

Match Results:
1.2.5: 112 - 11 :1.2.5f

Go, Go!!!
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TheCryptoWoman

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #124 on: August 16, 2014, 09:14:22 pm »

So now we have exchanges with large holdings deciding to lead a hard fork against community consensus of yesterday?

Whether I agree personally with the outcome of yesterdays decision by Nxt forgers or not, this turn of events troubles me very much.

Seems more like a coup.

Actually the majority voted for a fork, it was abandoned as bter said they could handle it which they obviously couldnt

Vocal majority voted. Forging, where the decision-making is really made told a different story.
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bitcoinpaul

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #125 on: August 16, 2014, 09:14:52 pm »

lol forum sock puppet action  ;D

Bter, u should try harder!
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jonny

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #126 on: August 16, 2014, 09:15:37 pm »

The fourth solution:

Issue 51.x million stolenNXT assets and distribute them proportionally to the people who had the deposits in bter. This idea I copied from Lee.
I like your solution!
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Cassius

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #127 on: August 16, 2014, 09:15:47 pm »

Excellent. Better still, the stolenNXT trade in their own right. Others can step in to help those who have lost NXT without risking all or it being an outright gift. I would buy stolenNXT for this reason.
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eimon

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #128 on: August 16, 2014, 09:17:49 pm »

Excellent. Better still, the stolenNXT trade in their own right. Others can step in to help those who have lost NXT without risking all or it being an outright gift. I would buy stolenNXT for this reason.

Maybe stolenNXT ends up at # 8 or 9 on Coinmarketcap  ;D
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yassin54

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #129 on: August 16, 2014, 09:18:48 pm »

Excellent. Better still, the stolenNXT trade in their own right. Others can step in to help those who have lost NXT without risking all or it being an outright gift. I would buy stolenNXT for this reason.

me tooooo ;D ;D ;D

Graviton

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #130 on: August 16, 2014, 09:19:07 pm »

Quote
A hardfork of Nxt would make it seem like just another, failed crypto-currency that could not withhold a hack on a centralized entity. What you are proposing is killing Nxt's future and it won't get us anywhere near the place you want it to be.
That is well debatable. The community is fully divided on that. Saying such as being a sure thing is foolish.

In my opinion the solution to block hacker's account only through a hard fork is a sign of exceptional communal resolve. It's not a rollback. It is a collaborative action that mitigates damage done by a malevolent party. The effect to NXT users is only beneficial. The effect to outside observers is mixed and not prominent. Do not let fear take you over and prevent you from taking action when it needs to be taken.

Quote
50m Nxt flooding the markets are very unlikely.
Not flooding but exerting incredible downward pressure during the next 3, 6 or even 12 months. It is nearly certain. The hacker will of course sell it to a private dark side investor who mixes it, cashes out some, and sells the rest forward to the next investor for a fraction of the market price. Rinse and repeat until done.

1.5 million USD extra injection to the buy side would not suffice to keep NXT afloat, because of the bad rep causing more sell pressure.

By blocking the 50M from being sold, we just have to deal with the bad rep and not the massive selling million after million until exhaustion.
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zingzong

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #131 on: August 16, 2014, 09:21:00 pm »

can we get this straight. Does it make a difference how much we are forging with?? if not anyone with more than one computer , get them all running 1-2-5f.
Also how do i get this running on the mac client, new to macs.
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cromaclear

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #132 on: August 16, 2014, 09:21:32 pm »

StolenNXT should trade as well...if will help bter to gain more fees and recover The losses earlier
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galeki

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #133 on: August 16, 2014, 09:23:20 pm »

Excellent. Better still, the stolenNXT trade in their own right. Others can step in to help those who have lost NXT without risking all or it being an outright gift. I would buy stolenNXT for this reason.

me tooooo ;D ;D ;D

me too, would buy some to support  :D
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instacash

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #134 on: August 16, 2014, 09:24:29 pm »

Also how do i get this running on the mac client, new to macs.

1. Download the client's .zip
2. Fire up Terminal.app then cd to your NXT client folder, e.g. cd ~/Downloads/nxt
3. ./run.sh
4. access via browser at http://localhost:7876
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 09:29:01 pm by instacash »
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valarmg

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #135 on: August 16, 2014, 09:27:17 pm »

Not flooding but exerting incredible downward pressure during the next 3, 6 or even 12 months. It is nearly certain. The hacker will of course sell it to a private dark side investor who mixes it, cashes out some, and sells the rest forward to the next investor for a fraction of the market price. Rinse and repeat until done.

1.5 million USD extra injection to the buy side would not suffice to keep NXT afloat, because of the bad rep causing more sell pressure.

By blocking the 50M from being sold, we just have to deal with the bad rep and not the massive selling million after million until exhaustion.

50M on the market is no different than one of the full bitcoin original founders deciding to sell. A bit of downward pressure on price is not something that Nxt can't handle. It's like the Ethereum IPO or the FBI sell-off for bitcoin. It'll just be a blip. The bad reputation would be much more damage in my opinion. Especially driven by the exchanges like this. One of the main criticisms of PoS is the fact that the exchanges with all their coins have too much power. If this wins, a lot of people will lose their trust in Nxt forever.

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gs02xzz

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #136 on: August 16, 2014, 09:28:01 pm »

One more avenue for Bter to compensate the users is to convert some of the lost NXT to their stock shares.
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TheCryptoWoman

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #137 on: August 16, 2014, 09:29:03 pm »

can we get this straight. Does it make a difference how much we are forging with?? if not anyone with more than one computer , get them all running 1-2-5f.
Also how do i get this running on the mac client, new to macs.

zingzong, welcome to the community! I see your account is less than half a day old. Your enthusiasm for Nxt is admirable, but I would would trust your input and your cheerleading more if you had some "age" behind your opinions.
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #138 on: August 16, 2014, 09:29:39 pm »

I propose free escrow service to do option 1.

This is how it should be done:

1. I publish my BTC and NXT accounts
2. BTER sends 200 BTC to my BTC account (after that it doesn't control these coins)
3. We are waiting for a reply from the hacker (24 hours), the reply must be a public message with his BTC account from NXT-8WJ7-8A2H-MBYN-3W9K4 to my NXT account
4. The hacker sends 46'662'000 NXT to my account
5. I send 200 BTC to his BTC account
6. I send 46+ M NXT to BTER cold wallet that already got 5 M NXT

So, if the hacker trusts me we could do it this way (the 200 BTC are not mine anyway if he worries that I could break the deal).

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zuqka

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Re: 3 solutions proposed by Bter.com (200BTC deal or 310BTC bounty or Fork)
« Reply #139 on: August 16, 2014, 09:30:14 pm »

Not flooding but exerting incredible downward pressure during the next 3, 6 or even 12 months. It is nearly certain. The hacker will of course sell it to a private dark side investor who mixes it, cashes out some, and sells the rest forward to the next investor for a fraction of the market price. Rinse and repeat until done.

1.5 million USD extra injection to the buy side would not suffice to keep NXT afloat, because of the bad rep causing more sell pressure.

By blocking the 50M from being sold, we just have to deal with the bad rep and not the massive selling million after million until exhaustion.

50M on the market is no different than one of the full bitcoin original founders deciding to sell. A bit of downward pressure on price is not something that Nxt can't handle. It's like the Ethereum IPO or the FBI sell-off for bitcoin. It'll just be a blip. The bad reputation would be much more damage in my opinion. Especially driven by the exchanges like this. One of the main criticisms of PoS is the fact that the exchanges with all their coins have too much power. If this wins, a lot of people will lose their trust in Nxt forever.

Community vs exchanges....I vote for us, for NXT...1.2.5
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