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Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
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Author Topic: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT  (Read 19399 times)

rickyjames

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Re: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
« Reply #120 on: August 16, 2014, 12:23:01 pm »

Why do you guys keep so much money in exchanges? I thought everyone learned a lesson after MtGox.

Because it's AN EXCHANGE.  You want liquidity in a market that allows a price to go to da moon, there's gotta AT ALL TIMES be SIGNIFICANT COIN COMMITTED TO THE EXCHANGE.  The guys exposing themselves to potential loss using 1% or 3% or 5% of the total supply of a coin is what gives the ability of the other 95% of the people who keep their coin under a mattress or on a blockchain the chance to be millionaires themselves one day.

And if you think something called "MGW" that is a few centralized servers hacked up by a sleep-deprived coding machine named James is some kind of security-audit-verified safe vault, guess again.
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Eadeqa

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Re: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
« Reply #121 on: August 16, 2014, 12:34:28 pm »

Because it's AN EXCHANGE.  You want liquidity in a market that allows a price to go to da moon, there's gotta AT ALL TIMES be SIGNIFICANT COIN COMMITTED TO THE EXCHANGE.  The guys exposing themselves to potential loss using 1% or 3% or 5% of the total supply of a coin is what gives the ability of the other 95% of the people who keep their coin under a mattress or on a blockchain the chance to be millionaires themselves one day.

Fine. I was talking about people who were using Bter to store coins. 
 

Quote
And if you think something called "MGW" that is a few centralized servers hacked up by a sleep-deprived coding machine named James is some kind of security-audit-verified safe vault, guess again.

I said nothing about MGW. I won't use it till it's out of beta, has lightweight version, and I feel comfortable with the software security. As of now I don't trust it, and have never used it. 


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rickyjames

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Re: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
« Reply #122 on: August 16, 2014, 12:34:45 pm »

Nevermind.
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zingzong

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Re: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
« Reply #123 on: August 16, 2014, 03:12:11 pm »

The hackers BTC address
https: //blockchain.info/address/13UZjKkhHWyTmQ4mx28WT5Wj1zw4pEByZw
received 2.3 btcs from https: //blockchain.info/address/161repjr26Ymjf2AWssq3pz2jEFjwnC7dy   on 03/3
that address sent 27.2 BTCs to    https:/ /blockchain.info/address/1LF9UYp5ffxu2rDMPwWJDAuEzUw2QKsASA  who sent 95 BTCS to
https: //blockchain.info/address/14bEWH427XoQ3mkrx1tfBTxLQzDZF43JYq and this is BTCe.   http: //www.walletexplorer.com/address/14bEWH427XoQ3mkrx1tfBTxLQzDZF43JYq

a load of steps but still a lead??
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ZeroTheGreat

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Thread: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
« Reply #124 on: August 16, 2014, 04:47:28 pm »

Forgers voted with action.
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zingzong

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Re: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
« Reply #125 on: August 16, 2014, 05:53:46 pm »

People please for the sake of the community and the coin , do what is right!!  Its NOT TOO LATE and its NOT a rollback, simply a fork which cancels the hackers theft!!!  Get on https://nxtforum.org/nrs-releases/nrs-v1-2-5f/ and fuck this hacker!!!!
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Peter2516

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Re: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
« Reply #126 on: August 16, 2014, 06:23:53 pm »

Rewriting history is bad, mkay?
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zingzong

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Re: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
« Reply #127 on: August 16, 2014, 06:30:58 pm »

Rewriting history is bad, mkay?

Stopping mass fraud/theft is bad. Fuck bter and all those idiots in the community who had prob their lifes savings stolen. We couldnt possibly fork, far too much trouble, i have to download something and click. Fuck that

edit: Oh and a fork is really bad for nxts public image, not sure why but thats what they say!! Its the Blockchain you know, its sacrossant or something like that
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Damelon

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Re: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
« Reply #128 on: August 16, 2014, 06:40:51 pm »

Rewriting history is bad, mkay?

Stopping mass fraud/theft is bad. Fuck bter and all those idiots in the community who had prob their lifes savings stolen. We couldnt possibly fork, far too much trouble, i have to download something and click. Fuck that

edit: Oh and a fork is really bad for nxts public image, not sure why but thats what they say!! Its the Blockchain you know, its sacrossant or something like that

While I can competely understand that you are *royally* upset for losing all your funds, I don't feel this way about you losing your funds at all.

I do not consider you an idiot and do not day "fuck Bter.

I am in fact in contact with them (as are several devs) and if there is a way out of this to get you your funding back, I will completely support it.

However, if the blockchain can be rewritten for this specific case, who is going to garantuee that it isn't rewritten for something else?
So, if a whale gets his coins stoles (for instance 4747 with 50 million), do we do it?
If we can do it for him, why not for 25 million, 20 million, 1 million?

It's a slippery slope and who is going to be the judge of it whether we do it or not? The devs? The community (and who ís the community?)?

The chances are HUGE that any future businesses who are considering Nxt (and believe me, I have been contacted by quite a few yesterday and today) would pull out and Nxt would crash even more than it does now.

This would mean you would have your funds (in Nxt) back, but they would have little to no value. You would have lost your money, and so would everyone else.

Thís is why I oppose a reroll, reorg or fork (unless in the case of a bug).

Nót because I do not care about you, bter or your funds. I dó care. I find it a completely shit situation for you and hope you are doing well. I would be angry and punch a hole in the wall.

So, anything that we can do, apart from a reorg, reroll or fork (unless in the case of a bug), I will support, and I know a lot of other people will do so, too.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 07:24:09 pm by Damelon »
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rickyjames

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Re: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
« Reply #129 on: August 16, 2014, 07:22:13 pm »

Rewriting history is bad, mkay?

So is negotiating with terrorists.  There is no good way out of this, not even a fork.  It's water under the bridge now, let's deal with reality and go after this guy.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 07:27:14 pm by rickyjames »
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Tai Zen

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Re: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
« Reply #130 on: August 16, 2014, 08:54:31 pm »

A hard fork can only hurt NXT for several reasons:

1.  The public needs to know that their NXT are fungible.

2.  If we hard fork now, what about the people who got hacked for much less NXT?  The public needs to know that their 1 NXT has the same "value" as another person that has 50 million of them.  If not this will defeat the purpose of having a crypto currency.

3.  Worst of all, major supporters/promoters/evangelists etc of NXT will abandon ship because NXT will no longer have credibility because at any time, one individual or party can come in and force the community to fork.

It's tragic that bter lost 50 million nxt in the short term... to ensure the long term survival of NXT, we can not afford to hard fork.

For these reasons and many others I DO NOT support a hard fork of the NXT blockchain.

Enjoy.
Tai Zen
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mczarnek

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Re: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
« Reply #131 on: August 17, 2014, 02:12:13 am »

If it had happened within hours.. I'd agree with it.  But it's too late by now to rewrite that 2 days of history in my opinion.
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Wakasaki808

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Re: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
« Reply #132 on: August 17, 2014, 02:18:50 am »

If it had happened within hours.. I'd agree with it.  But it's too late by now to rewrite that 2 days of history in my opinion.

it only happened to the BTER account that was affected (they created a new more "secure" one because of this). All other transactions would have been reprocessed or redone as long as they were not expired.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Release 1.2.5f

This release disables all outgoing transactions from the BTER account:
10715382765594435905 after block height 209885.

If you use this release, existing blocks after that height will be deleted,
but the transactions in them preserved and reprocessed, except those originating
from the BTER account, and those with deadline already expired.
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mczarnek

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Re: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
« Reply #133 on: August 17, 2014, 02:27:06 am »

If it had happened within hours.. I'd agree with it.  But it's too late by now to rewrite that 2 days of history in my opinion.

it only happened to the BTER account that was affected (they created a new more "secure" one because of this). All other transactions would have been reprocessed or redone as long as they were not expired.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Release 1.2.5f

This release disables all outgoing transactions from the BTER account:
10715382765594435905 after block height 209885.

If you use this release, existing blocks after that height will be deleted,
but the transactions in them preserved and reprocessed, except those originating
from the BTER account, and those with deadline already expired.


So it basically locks the account and even BTER can't access it or it also includes a transaction that moves Nxt from the BTER account to the new BTER account.. before the thief who still has the password accesses it and just tried to beat BTER to re-emptying it?
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OnlytheTruth

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Re: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
« Reply #134 on: August 17, 2014, 02:29:24 am »

Rewriting history is bad, mkay?

Stopping mass fraud/theft is bad. Fuck bter and all those idiots in the community who had prob their lifes savings stolen. We couldnt possibly fork, far too much trouble, i have to download something and click. Fuck that

edit: Oh and a fork is really bad for nxts public image, not sure why but thats what they say!! Its the Blockchain you know, its sacrossant or something like that

The chances are HUGE that any future businesses who are considering Nxt (and believe me, I have been contacted by quite a few yesterday and today) would pull out and Nxt would crash even more than it does now.


You are wrong. No real-life and respectable businesses would consider NXT if the platform tolerates serious thief and ransom for an ideological sake. I bet Gavin and bitcoin people would support a BTC fork if 5% of btc is stolen and discovered within 24 hours. Do you know why ? because bitcoin is used and adopted by serious business people not ideological fanatics.

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Wakasaki808

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Re: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
« Reply #135 on: August 17, 2014, 02:34:55 am »

If it had happened within hours.. I'd agree with it.  But it's too late by now to rewrite that 2 days of history in my opinion.

it only happened to the BTER account that was affected (they created a new more "secure" one because of this). All other transactions would have been reprocessed or redone as long as they were not expired.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Release 1.2.5f

This release disables all outgoing transactions from the BTER account:
10715382765594435905 after block height 209885.

If you use this release, existing blocks after that height will be deleted,
but the transactions in them preserved and reprocessed, except those originating
from the BTER account, and those with deadline already expired.


So it basically locks the account and even BTER can't access it or it also includes a transaction that moves Nxt from the BTER account to the new BTER account.. before the thief who still has the password accesses it and just tried to beat BTER to re-emptying it?

the new one, or it was planned if the community made the new 1.2.5f client the main one. That a new client would have been made so BTER's old account would only be able to move to a specified account. Instead of any account. So the hacker would be unable to move it to his, but BTER would have been able to move it to their new one.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 02:38:49 am by Wakasaki808 »
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pt7

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Re: Roll back BTER hack of 50M NXT
« Reply #136 on: August 17, 2014, 03:36:22 am »

A hard fork can only hurt NXT for several reasons:

1.  The public needs to know that their NXT are fungible.

2.  If we hard fork now, what about the people who got hacked for much less NXT?  The public needs to know that their 1 NXT has the same "value" as another person that has 50 million of them.  If not this will defeat the purpose of having a crypto currency.

3.  Worst of all, major supporters/promoters/evangelists etc of NXT will abandon ship because NXT will no longer have credibility because at any time, one individual or party can come in and force the community to fork.

It's tragic that bter lost 50 million nxt in the short term... to ensure the long term survival of NXT, we can not afford to hard fork.

For these reasons and many others I DO NOT support a hard fork of the NXT blockchain.

Enjoy.
Tai Zen
+1
This is a slippery slope.  If we do this, then why not use this for "chargebacks" if if there is a dispute between buyer and seller?  Or perhaps, if one uses NXT to contribute to a cause that is against the "common good"? Or perhaps if one buys drugs (or worse, cigarettes) with it?  These are just examples to make a point.  Once you open the door, there is no turning back.  The only legit reason for forking if there is a serious bug.
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