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Latest Stable Nxt Client: Nxt 1.12.2

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Author Topic: Forgers have been faced with a choice...  (Read 290191 times)

kodtycoon

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #860 on: August 15, 2014, 02:45:21 pm »

The two versions of nrs are now released. It is the people's choice now. If the rollback happens and people loose mgwbtc then bter should reimburse the lose of those funds as it is their fault we are dealing with this shit storm. Let the people of the community decide by choosing the red or blue pill!

Sent from my C1905 using Tapatalk

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Peter2516

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #861 on: August 15, 2014, 02:45:54 pm »


The whole NXT idea is built on the fact that the community (specifically the majority of stake holders) can decide about the blockchain.

I think ideally nobody can decide on the blockchain, because it wouldn't be possible to get future millions of forgers to collude on a fork.
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landomata

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #862 on: August 15, 2014, 02:46:26 pm »

if there is a rollback, I'll just sell a bunch of NXT before it happens and send the money to my bank account. Then I get my coins back and keep the FIAT?

Nope.

Again, read here:

https://nxtforum.org/nrs-releases/nrs-v1-2-5b/

Only Bter account's outgoing transactions are erased.

ok, that is good to know

This release disables all outgoing transactions from the BTER account:
10715382765594435905 after block height 209885.

If you use this release, existing blocks after that height will be deleted,
but the transactions in them preserved and reprocessed, except those originating
from the BTER account, and those with deadline already expired.


what about the last part?

kLee

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #863 on: August 15, 2014, 02:46:30 pm »

I would be in favor of the following view of the experience.

Only to allow the exchange into mgw !!!  :-\

OH please mgw is basically a centralized server in disguise. There is no reason to think mgw operators are more careful than the BTER's owner. it is actually much less secure because mgw operators are amateurs.

MGW didn't lose 50 million nxt because of negligence.
Bter was in the same position before some hours...
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cobaltskky

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #864 on: August 15, 2014, 02:46:51 pm »

I say, if this happened to a bank with cash, no way to rollback out of that theft. If we want crypto to replace cash in the minds of consumers, it needs to work in a similar way.
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Pilot

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #865 on: August 15, 2014, 02:47:13 pm »

hacker did not sent 5M to bter? :'(

Are we surprised. This was no white hat hack.
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OnlytheTruth

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #866 on: August 15, 2014, 02:47:32 pm »

I would be in favor of the following view of the experience.

Only to allow the exchange into mgw !!!  :-\

OH please mgw is basically a centralized server in disguise. There is no reason to think mgw operators are more careful than the BTER's owner. it is actually much less secure because mgw operators are amateurs.

MGW didn't lose 50 million nxt because of negligence.

no sane people will store even 10K$ on MGW. So yes no chance for them to lose that much money. Re-read what I wrote "mgw is basically a centralized server in disguise" and "mgw operators are amateurs compare to BTER". It is just fortunate that hackers couldn't care for mgw to exploit it.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 02:55:54 pm by OnlytheTruth »
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Peter2516

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #867 on: August 15, 2014, 02:47:40 pm »


if there is a rollback, I'll just sell a bunch of NXT before it happens and send the money to my bank account. Then I get my coins back and keep the FIAT?

I think it depends on the timeout you use in your transaction. Only transactions that haven't timed out yet will be repeated in new blocks.
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devphp

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #868 on: August 15, 2014, 02:48:40 pm »

The two versions of nrs are now released. It is the people's choice now. If the rollback happens and people loose mgwbtc then bter should reimburse the lose of those funds as it is their fault we are dealing with this shit storm. Let the people of the community decide by choosing the red or blue pill!

Sent from my C1905 using Tapatalk

blue pill - 1.2.5b, you wake up in your bed like nothing happened,
red pill - older true chain, that's people who take responsibility for their actions.
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Coradan

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #869 on: August 15, 2014, 02:48:47 pm »

The 1.2.5b is rollback or only erases the 7 outgoing transactions of the BTER address 10715382765594435905 (hack transactions and next)???
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 02:51:58 pm by Coradan »
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Jacinto

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #870 on: August 15, 2014, 02:48:50 pm »

So the thieve found only pwd for NXT funds? Weird...

STRANGE HE DIDN'T TAKE BTC TOO....

i thought the hacker said he cleared 500btc from bter.
Any link/reference?

8949490421422923694   NXT-8WJ7-8A2H-MBYN-3W9K4   NXT-LSC3-VB9T-2W3V-BH7FB   So, what taking so long? Send me the next batch already. I'm going to leave soon. It's already 2 hours of negotiation, it took me 1 hour to clean your whole exchanger. BTC 500+ I'm not going to sit here, and wait 2 more hours for you to decide to send the lousy 10 BTC.   2014-08-15 12:17:39
Wow..


ummmmmm i dont think the hacker took 500BTC from bter....

In that case freeworm would tell us about this.

Anyway, I also find really weird that only NXT pass was compromised...
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BCNext son.

prometheus

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #871 on: August 15, 2014, 02:48:56 pm »


if there is a rollback, I'll just sell a bunch of NXT before it happens and send the money to my bank account. Then I get my coins back and keep the FIAT?

I think it depends on the timeout you use in your transaction. Only transactions that haven't timed out yet will be repeated in new blocks.

someone just replied to my post and said that only BTER transactions will be rewritten


i'm sticking with old chain...the outcome is 50/50 in my opinion. either decision could have serious detrimental effects. tough spot to be in...
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cobaltskky

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #872 on: August 15, 2014, 02:49:41 pm »

Sounds like it's up to the community now. Debate has been had. Positions on both sides clarified. Vote with your forging power and by running or not running the new client. Simple as that at this point.
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Peter2516

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #873 on: August 15, 2014, 02:50:14 pm »


someone just replied to my post and said that only BTER transactions will be rewritten

Release notes also say: "..and those with deadline already expired."
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landomata

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #874 on: August 15, 2014, 02:50:29 pm »

I would be in favor of the following view of the experience.

Only to allow the exchange into mgw !!!  :-\

OH please mgw is basically a centralized server in disguise. There is no reason to think mgw operators are more careful than the BTER's owner. it is actually much less secure because mgw operators are amateurs.

MGW didn't lose 50 million nxt because of negligence.

LOL no sane people will store even 10K$ on MGW except the operators themselves. So yes no chance for them to lose that much money. Re-read what I wrote "mgw is basically a centralized server in disguise" and "mgw operators are amateurs compare to BTER". It is just fortunate that hackers couldn't care for mgw to exploit it.

I doubt MGW operators would be so negligent in regards to security.

nexern

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #875 on: August 15, 2014, 02:50:41 pm »

I don't like the idea of freezing one account, because(seen from an outside observer) that means this community could attack a single person or businesses account if they don't like them. Bad precedence.

I find it strange to read that. The whole NXT idea is built on the fact that the community (specifically the majority of stake holders) can decide about the blockchain.
Secondly - if we don't do it now, it doesn't create assurance that it will never happen. The system is built so that it can happen.

And then there is the part where a NXT thief gets away with 3100BTC worth of crypto. Can buy himself a little island, lean back - and concentrate on hacking even more. While the honest NXT supporters (Bter and their clients) get hurt.

this is correct, if the blockchain doesn't serve us but we serve the blockchain then
the blockchain becomes an equivalent to a central bank. as long as any action is based
on free decisions of majority the action is fine, no matter how it looks to others.

bter was and is a reliable partner for the nxt community and they deserve our support
if needed.
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Coradan

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #876 on: August 15, 2014, 02:51:17 pm »

The 1.2.5b is rollback or only erases the 7 outgoing transactions of the BTER address 10715382765594435905 (hack transactions and next)???
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Fatih87SK

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #877 on: August 15, 2014, 02:51:26 pm »

I say, if this happened to a bank with cash, no way to rollback out of that theft. If we want crypto to replace cash in the minds of consumers, it needs to work in a similar way.

The customers of a bank don't lose money when a Bank got hacked.

Right now, there are a lot of people that lost money so there is a lot of emotion.

Not a good comparison.

I still don't know what's the best solution for this though.
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ThomasVeil

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #878 on: August 15, 2014, 02:52:21 pm »

Again, read here:

https://nxtforum.org/nrs-releases/nrs-v1-2-5b/

Only Bter account's outgoing transactions are erased.


Just quoting so everyone new is clear on that important fact. :)

Also - some people seem not to be up to date on:
- Bter sent already 110 BTC
- The thief since has not sent the NXT back (though had agreed on that earlier)

Since Bter is asking for the reorg still, one can assume there are no fruitful negotiations behind the scene.
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ARDOR-BPV3-837M-QZTQ-9DQ69  oxpal.com

empowering

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #879 on: August 15, 2014, 02:53:06 pm »

So the thieve found only pwd for NXT funds? Weird...

STRANGE HE DIDN'T TAKE BTC TOO....

i thought the hacker said he cleared 500btc from bter.
Any link/reference?

8949490421422923694   NXT-8WJ7-8A2H-MBYN-3W9K4   NXT-LSC3-VB9T-2W3V-BH7FB   So, what taking so long? Send me the next batch already. I'm going to leave soon. It's already 2 hours of negotiation, it took me 1 hour to clean your whole exchanger. BTC 500+ I'm not going to sit here, and wait 2 more hours for you to decide to send the lousy 10 BTC.   2014-08-15 12:17:39
Wow..

more than wow..
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 02:04:00 am by empowering »
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