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Author Topic: Forgers have been faced with a choice...  (Read 290583 times)

Peter2516

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #840 on: August 15, 2014, 02:35:15 pm »

With the optimal NXT distribution we all strive for, millions of people forging, it wouldn't even be possible to get them all discussing issues like this on a forum, and getting them to start forging on a fork.

So in the optimal future situation, forgers don't collude.
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Wakasaki808

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #841 on: August 15, 2014, 02:35:20 pm »

if a rollback happens, how many people do you think will dump NXT the second they can? Maybe NXT will lose users because people disagree with this. Loss of users --> drop in price. Will victims of the hack actually want these coins back in the long run? How much value will be lost?



i don't see it as a good thing, but then again, i haven't lost any NXT in this incident. i'll certainly be thinking about reducing my holdings in NXT though, due to the effect this will have on the coin's image. i think confidence in legitimacy of the blockchain will drop. i understand the "democratic vote" argument but i don't think the general population of crypto users will buy it

Don't think anyone will find a way around the NXT price will fall dramatically because of this. Unless the hacker just holds the Nxt like a whale would do. 
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prometheus

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #842 on: August 15, 2014, 02:35:37 pm »

once TF is implemented, this would take a 90% consensus to do, correct?

i would be in complete agreement with that. if 90% of forgers decide to rewrite, then it should be written. i don't know if 51% is convincing enough



anyways, I think this should be yet another lesson: DO NOT KEEP COINS ON EXCHANGES! If you're still doing this after Gox, then that is your fault. i would love to swing trade but the risk of trusting centralized exchanges is just too much now. please learn from this
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 02:39:21 pm by prometheus »
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cobaltskky

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #843 on: August 15, 2014, 02:36:06 pm »

What would bcnext do?
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empowering

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #844 on: August 15, 2014, 02:36:43 pm »

Defend NXT which ever way is best.


Let BTER take a LARGE amount of the responsibility on this...   it was them after all that got hacked-  NXT needs to defend NXT , BTER can come and go, NXT needs to stay.

I am in two minds on best way forward... all apart from one thing- resolved or not.. roll back or not, NXT or not...

that hacker... needs his ass handed to him and his hands clipped together with some police hardware.. that would be worth spending some NXT/BTC £$ on..   

apart form that personally I think that- as it is a BTER hack problem- the responsibility should be in their court...



« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 02:05:41 am by empowering »
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Pilot

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #845 on: August 15, 2014, 02:37:00 pm »

Be careful upon the closure of the deal. At X juncture may make more sense for hacker to keep NXT than to receive BTC.

The final 10 BTC should be sent via escrow like http://cosign.co.in/
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #846 on: August 15, 2014, 02:38:23 pm »

http://www.coindesk.com/bter-nxt-bitcoin-exchange-hack/

On Coindesk now.

They forgot to explain why it's important to do the reorg within 720 blocks. Well, maybe it doesn't really matter.
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Pilot

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #847 on: August 15, 2014, 02:38:45 pm »

BTER has in the past come to the aid of the Nxt community when community and individual funds were at risk or lost.  If it was other exchange I would say no.

I say yes to BTER: we should fix their loss.

It looks like BTER is paying. So, set up a BTC address for donations to make BTER whole again. Although, I'd like to see them remove that withdrawal fee. ;)
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Ezravdb

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #848 on: August 15, 2014, 02:39:29 pm »

Be careful upon the closure of the deal. At X juncture may make more sense for hacker to keep NXT than to receive BTC.

The final 10 BTC should be sent via escrow like http://cosign.co.in/


Lol look at the account
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starfishi

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #849 on: August 15, 2014, 02:40:03 pm »

guys don't rollback please. i think hacker will return nxt.

read the change log - its not a complete rollback... the affected BTER account is locked and therefore if successful the theft never happened but the other legitimate TX's will be reconfirmed in the fork that is created.

This is scarry, from wich sum on, can i request a rollback, 50 mil, 5mil, 500 k, ? Especially a selective one, people could misuse this. So, as hard as it is, no rollback, its not possible, it would destroy the fundamentals of NXT, or any CC. Sorry.
Bter should try to negotiate the NXT-BTC-deal further, whatever is possible, it is also in the interest of the thief, because if he does not comply, probably james, or others, interested in the resulting huge bounty on his head, will show us, that all the "mixing" and "ringsignaturing" doesnt really work, and only "teleporting" is the future ...  I´m burning to know,anyway, james !

If there is a selective rollback, it will destroy the fundamentals of NXT and Cryptocurrencies. And if there´s a general rollback, just tell me, I´ll sell my NXT now, and after rollback, I have them magically back, is it really possible to handle all transactions after a rollback ?

edit: ok, ok, nobody wants my NXT right now, I know.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 02:47:50 pm by starfishi »
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OnlytheTruth

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #850 on: August 15, 2014, 02:40:22 pm »

I would be in favor of the following view of the experience.

Only to allow the exchange into mgw !!!  :-\

OH please mgw is basically a centralized server in disguise. There is no reason to think mgw operators are more careful than the BTER's owner. it is actually much less secure because mgw operators are amateurs.
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lucky88888

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #851 on: August 15, 2014, 02:40:57 pm »

So the thieve found only pwd for NXT funds? Weird...

STRANGE HE DIDN'T TAKE BTC TOO....

i thought the hacker said he cleared 500btc from bter.
Any link/reference?

8949490421422923694   NXT-8WJ7-8A2H-MBYN-3W9K4   NXT-LSC3-VB9T-2W3V-BH7FB   So, what taking so long? Send me the next batch already. I'm going to leave soon. It's already 2 hours of negotiation, it took me 1 hour to clean your whole exchanger. BTC 500+ I'm not going to sit here, and wait 2 more hours for you to decide to send the lousy 10 BTC.   2014-08-15 12:17:39
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landomata

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #852 on: August 15, 2014, 02:41:38 pm »

I would be in favor of the following view of the experience.

Only to allow the exchange into mgw !!!  :-\

OH please mgw is basically a centralized server in disguise. There is no reason to think mgw operators are more careful than the BTER's owner. it is actually much less secure because mgw operators are amateurs.

MGW didn't lose 50 million nxt because of negligence.

Valtiel

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #853 on: August 15, 2014, 02:42:13 pm »

hello. first time posting here to be honest i open my account just to post about the robbery and show my opinion about
warning: bad english expected.

i think we must rollback for mere pragmatic reasons as i see that rollback could eb considered a plus for non hardcore nxter or crypto fans lets be honest. regular joe dont care about privacy or decentralization than how they care about lost all their savings just cause some guy forget secure a simple account. regular joe expect someone protect their savings cause he/she cant just cause they dont techie savvy. bter can be blamed beacuse they naive enough to pay 100 btc to someone without ethic enough to hack and steal someone else. you simply cant trust that kind of people. in fact that guy i using the decentralization and privacy in his favor cause he live in the fiat based world and he not care about our ideal. you guys really expect someone who dont erspect our rules play with our rules? the best is make a rollback and not just that. the best is create a exchanges coallition and a nxt security bureau with enough power to freeze and rollback single accounts under a vote sytem where if 51% of the whole forging power votes to rollback they could do it. cryptos must mature from idealism to ideal system where no just the hardcore gamers feel comfy. we must assure regular people is safe here. the fact bter pay 100 btc coul play in favor of nxt. if we rollback the transaction and return the 50m ntx we can show regular joes they more safe here than any other coin just using the fact these 50m nxt got returned and how those 100 btc cant be. lets turn this blow against nxt in our best allie. is time to evolve in a main player beacuse we can accept we not just another "freaks" group like linux users who no matter they have the best OS. they still stuck as underdog. lets use this little hacker scum in our best ally to make nxt look like a safe haven for everyone when other cryptos cant protect them.

here my 2 cents. and sorry for my bad english. note nglish speaking native.
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prometheus

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #854 on: August 15, 2014, 02:42:17 pm »

if there is a rollback, I'll just sell a bunch of NXT before it happens and send the money to my bank account. Then I get my coins back and keep the FIAT?
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ThomasVeil

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #855 on: August 15, 2014, 02:42:41 pm »

I don't like the idea of freezing one account, because(seen from an outside observer) that means this community could attack a single person or businesses account if they don't like them. Bad precedence.

I find it strange to read that. The whole NXT idea is built on the fact that the community (specifically the majority of stake holders) can decide about the blockchain.
Secondly - if we don't do it now, it doesn't create assurance that it will never happen. The system is built so that it can happen.

And then there is the part where a NXT thief gets away with 3100BTC worth of crypto. Can buy himself a little island, lean back - and concentrate on hacking even more. While the honest NXT supporters (Bter and their clients) get hurt.
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Jacinto

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #856 on: August 15, 2014, 02:43:42 pm »

if there is a rollback, I'll just sell a bunch of NXT before it happens and send the money to my bank account. Then I get my coins back and keep the FIAT?

Nope.

Again, read here:

https://nxtforum.org/nrs-releases/nrs-v1-2-5b/

Only Bter account's outgoing transactions are erased.
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BCNext son.

devphp

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #857 on: August 15, 2014, 02:44:06 pm »

They forgot to explain why it's important to do the reorg within 720 blocks. Well, maybe it doesn't really matter.

Why is it 720 by the way? Not any other number?
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kLee

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #858 on: August 15, 2014, 02:44:42 pm »

So the thieve found only pwd for NXT funds? Weird...

STRANGE HE DIDN'T TAKE BTC TOO....

i thought the hacker said he cleared 500btc from bter.
Any link/reference?

8949490421422923694   NXT-8WJ7-8A2H-MBYN-3W9K4   NXT-LSC3-VB9T-2W3V-BH7FB   So, what taking so long? Send me the next batch already. I'm going to leave soon. It's already 2 hours of negotiation, it took me 1 hour to clean your whole exchanger. BTC 500+ I'm not going to sit here, and wait 2 more hours for you to decide to send the lousy 10 BTC.   2014-08-15 12:17:39
Wow..
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prometheus

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #859 on: August 15, 2014, 02:44:59 pm »

if there is a rollback, I'll just sell a bunch of NXT before it happens and send the money to my bank account. Then I get my coins back and keep the FIAT?

Nope.

Again, read here:

https://nxtforum.org/nrs-releases/nrs-v1-2-5b/

Only Bter account's outgoing transactions are erased.

ok, that is good to know
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