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Forgers have been faced with a choice...
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Author Topic: Forgers have been faced with a choice...  (Read 290182 times)

youyou

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #820 on: August 15, 2014, 02:26:22 pm »

I think rollback is not possible... What should happen with somebody has purchased NXT with BTC after hack?  He will lose his NXT and his BTC too...

I wonder too..... If it's a real rollback, i think the NXT buyer loose all
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nexern

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #821 on: August 15, 2014, 02:26:27 pm »

What happens to Nxt credibility after roll back?

i can tell you, for those with a deeper understanding why all this crypto,
this decision will demonstrate that MANY people located everywhere on this planet
are able to decide on a FREE WILL to follow THEIR INDIVIDUAL COMMON SENSE
and therefore confirm that crypto works.
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Ezravdb

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #822 on: August 15, 2014, 02:26:38 pm »

I think a partial rollback is acceptable. Plus we have a lead on the hacker so all is dandy  :-*
I'm changing my mind about the roll back. some good points made about the havock that can be caused by a malicious entity controlling 5% of nxt! as long as it is decided by the community and not forced by the devs I think it is ok. it's starting to seem like the lessor of two evils and with a lead on the hacker he may be caught in the end.
I think a partial rollback is acceptable. Plus we have a lead on the hacker so all is dandy  :-*


Sent from my C1905 using Tapatalk

This!!

We have to choose between a douche and a turd sandwich
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TimmyD

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #823 on: August 15, 2014, 02:26:43 pm »

ive made a decentralised decision to run the new fork, i believe this is not centralization, i chose to do it no one decided for me
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jefdiesel

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #824 on: August 15, 2014, 02:26:51 pm »

i vote for tech and math over gut
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landomata

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #825 on: August 15, 2014, 02:27:08 pm »

Not years. We will track him down and make him pay in some form. The nxt can be tracked. Code can be written to follow it. Exchanges can blacklist acct. Seize funds moved to them from those accts.

+1

Ezravdb

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #826 on: August 15, 2014, 02:27:13 pm »

Looks like our biggest stake holder 4747...888 is forging in the "alternative" branch:

https://nxtforum.org/nrs-releases/nrs-v1-2-5b/msg82625/#msg82625

Forging power is suming up to F*ck the hacker  :D

:)
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lezin

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #827 on: August 15, 2014, 02:27:42 pm »

Not years. We will track him down and make him pay in some form. The nxt can be tracked. Code can be written to follow it. Exchanges can blacklist acct. Seize funds moved to them from those accts.

Exact, but rewriting the blockchain is a hard decision.
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Ezravdb

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #828 on: August 15, 2014, 02:27:57 pm »

ive made a decentralised decision to run the new fork, i believe this is not centralization, i chose to do it no one decided for me

Good for you dude ! :)
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Coradan

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #829 on: August 15, 2014, 02:28:49 pm »

I think rollback is not possible... What should happen with somebody has purchased NXT with BTC after hack?  He will lose his NXT and his BTC too...

You are wrong Coradan. Read this:

https://nxtforum.org/nrs-releases/nrs-v1-2-5b/

Only the bter's account outgoing transactions are erased. The rest will be retransmitted without problem.

Also regular transactions that timed out will be cancelled.

There are transactions NXT/BTC on BTER after the hack!

What should happen with somebody has sold BTC by NXT after hack from BTER?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 02:31:54 pm by Coradan »
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davethetrousers

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #830 on: August 15, 2014, 02:29:24 pm »

i can tell you, for those with a deeper understanding why all this crypto,
this decision will demonstrate that MANY people located everywhere on this planet
are able to decide on a FREE WILL to follow THEIR INDIVIDUAL COMMON SENSE
and therefore confirm that crypto works.

This is exactly the case!
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atoms

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #831 on: August 15, 2014, 02:30:04 pm »

freeworm, Bter is finished, realize it, and don't try to take Nxt down with you.
Do your really think if NO ROLLBack, NXT will not be affected by the whole thing?
Yes the thief can't cash it out in the exchange, but he can ruin the AE.
And no one can stop him. The NXT will be destory then.
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Riker

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #832 on: August 15, 2014, 02:30:49 pm »

Anyone can forge on 1.2.5b?
Getting error:
Code: [Select]
SEVERE: Error generating block nxt.NxtException$NotValidException: attempted to create a block with 262 transactions

The limit is 255 transactions per block.
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prometheus

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #833 on: August 15, 2014, 02:31:16 pm »

if a rollback happens, how many people do you think will dump NXT the second they can? Maybe NXT will lose users because people disagree with this. Loss of users --> drop in price. Will victims of the hack actually want these coins back in the long run? How much value will be lost?



i don't see it as a good thing, but then again, i haven't lost any NXT in this incident. i'll certainly be thinking about reducing my holdings in NXT though, due to the effect this will have on the coin's image. i think confidence in legitimacy of the blockchain will drop. i understand the "democratic vote" argument but i don't think the general population of crypto users will buy it

« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 02:33:26 pm by prometheus »
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frohlocke

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #834 on: August 15, 2014, 02:31:30 pm »

NO ROLLBACK.  Hacker already won.  Let the market decide what happens.  Means we all get some cheap NXT and we can keep on trucking forward.  In the longview, this is a fender bender, not a total replacement(in car crash terms).
You don't lost anything, so you can say NO ROLLBACK.
The 50M is not belong to bter.
And there is no way for bter to refund all the people who lost.
That means lots of people will lost much money.

what happens to the other 950 million?

I suspect some of "no roll back" guys still don't understand how fucked up it would be for NXT if the hacker holds 5% of NXT in ransom. The ecosystem business will be basically dead.

Example: He can mess with every frigging businesses in NXT asset exchange  example: buying and dumping irrationally every assets and consequently NO sane person will have anything to do with NXT AE anymore. NXT ecosystem development will basically be going to a toilet for a LONG LONG LONG time.

So yeah : roll-back : some reputation damages ; no roll-back: there will be actual and tangible damages every single day. Both choices would hurt NXT significantly but I could see rolling-back is actually better.

Think over this scenario. Hacked NXT can be laundered via NXT AE. You cannot prevent the hacker doing that except for closing down the AE exchange.
WOW the hacker may not think of this option but it is not difficult to launder 50 million NXT for 300-400 BTC and destroy NXT AE exchange in the process.

rolling it back if you want NXT ecosystem to survive.
More supply in nxt could also lead to (hyper-) inflation in asset prices. Which might bring more people AE. As nobody can predict the future. We will only know after. Biggest asset of NXT is credibility. If you as an investor can not be sure that deals are final there will be no investors.

Outsiders will have nothing to do with NXT AE assets anymore if they are inflated by hacked money. Minimal credibility will be lost if forgers unite and the majority decide to roll back. But if the issue cannot be contained, the consequence could linger for months if not years. It would be very bad for NXT if the hacked NXT's hangover continue for months. 5% of the currency is a lot and could do a lot of damages for a LONG LONG time.

What happens to Nxt credibility after roll back?

If the forges unite and the majority decides to fork, the impact on reputation would be small. I can't say for sure but people will probably understand and probably forget soon enough. But if you let the hacked 50 million NXT run unchecked, the hangover will be felt everyday for years.
So were is the limit for a rollback 1% or less of all coins? Could we also define rollback for asset scams? Are nxt rich people deciding about that?
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igmaca

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #835 on: August 15, 2014, 02:32:28 pm »

I would be in favor of the following view of the experience.

Only to allow the exchange into mgw !!!  :-\
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 02:35:55 pm by igmaca »
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landomata

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #836 on: August 15, 2014, 02:33:11 pm »


i don't see it as a good thing, but then again, i haven't lost any NXT in this incident. i'll certainly be thinking about reducing my holdings in NXT though, due to the effect this will have on the coin's image. i think confidence in legitimacy of the blockchain will drop. i understand the "democratic vote" argument but i don't think the general population of crypto users will buy it

I agree this is not a bug threatening Nxt but a fault of a third party.  Once you lose credibility it is very hard to get it back.


Did Bitcoin price suffer with the heist at MTGOX?

coretechs

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #837 on: August 15, 2014, 02:33:42 pm »

I remember this one time when Mt. Gox briefly convinced most of the bitcoin community that nearly a million BTC were stolen because of tx malleability...
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hash

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #838 on: August 15, 2014, 02:34:40 pm »

[...]The blockchain is sacred.[...]

The NXT blockchain becomes sacred after 720 blocks. The newest 720 blocks are not sacred. I believe it was designed like this for a reason / reasons.

kLee

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #839 on: August 15, 2014, 02:35:07 pm »

So the thieve found only pwd for NXT funds? Weird...

STRANGE HE DIDN'T TAKE BTC TOO....

i thought the hacker said he cleared 500btc from bter.
Any link/reference?
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