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Author Topic: Forgers have been faced with a choice...  (Read 232328 times)

Damelon

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #80 on: August 15, 2014, 09:27:29 am »

I want to go on record as being against a rollback, painful though it may be.

Hypothetical situation:

- I have done a BIG business deal and made a killing.
- Then this happens and we decide to do a roll back
- I lose ALL my business and my partner decides to renege on the deal because of this.
- BOOM, we're completely done.

Painful as it is, we stand to lose all credibility as a platform. We cannot roll back.

Bter has already stated that this is their mishap. This is business risk.

I like Bter, I really do. They have been great on several occasions. But this, we just cannot do, for any reason.

We need to get out of panic mode and see the larger picture here.
Do NOT think with your wallets! Please think of the larger picture.
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Meizirkki

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #81 on: August 15, 2014, 09:27:39 am »

Reverting the chain is not the end of NXT, it is a display of power and will by the community.

No, it's exactly the end of the social experiment called NXT and it will mean humans need centralized hand-holding, it means the experiment has failed.
Please elaborate. I haven't chose a side yet.
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jones

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #82 on: August 15, 2014, 09:27:50 am »

Hacker just posted a message:

http://www.mynxt.info/blockexplorer/details.php?action=tx&tx=737607765281301757

Message: We can trade these NXT for some bitcoins to make life easier for you, and me.

And once again even the hackers don't seem to realize that these messages aren't encrypted yet and can be read publicly.  ;D
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Neomadra

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #83 on: August 15, 2014, 09:28:22 am »

This is so fucking me up. I don't have any NXT on Bter but all these hacking incident are so exhausting. A rollback will destroy Nxt's image and trust. On the other hand the hacker could dump the NXT and kill it's price for a long time. I still don't understand why people have larger amounts on exchanges after Gox (remember: Largest theft ever happenend in history, no consequences, nothing learning) and I also don't understand why businesses have troubles to secure an account worth 2M$.
To be honest I'm against a rollback but I leased my account to Chucks charity hub and I'll agree with whatever he decides.
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Graviton

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #84 on: August 15, 2014, 09:28:42 am »

Quote
those who think that blockchain ought to be rewritten need just do it

How to do it, please?

DGEX can help the decision by forging with 29 million NXT.

It does not matter whether BTER pays for it or not, NXT will be destroyed by the 50 Million slow dump in the following months.

Rolling back has a PR advantage of strong community capable of centralized decisions. Anything over 50% voted should roll back.

It would not harm us to see BTER go out of business, still strongly for rollback.
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Fatih87SK

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #85 on: August 15, 2014, 09:30:06 am »

Quote
those who think that blockchain ought to be rewritten need just do it

How to do it, please?

DGEX can help the decision by forging with 29 million NXT.

It does not matter whether BTER pays for it or not, NXT will be destroyed by the 50 Million slow dump in the following months.

Rolling back has a PR advantage of strong community capable of centralized decisions. Anything over 50% voted should roll back.

It would not harm us to see BTER go out of business, still strongly for rollback.

+1

I don't have NXT there as well.
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jd1959

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #86 on: August 15, 2014, 09:30:22 am »

Bter is at fault IMHO exchanges are staking coins.........I stuffed my nxt password cost me heaps ......I just have to live with it......so should they

Jon
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Vega

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #87 on: August 15, 2014, 09:30:27 am »

Rollback would cause some problems.
For example I sent 100k+ to BTER today, it would be rolled back. However I already sold around 50k. What will happen? Bter could roll back my trade, (bad,bad idea), or freeze my account until I send the transaction again.
Lots of work, confusion and potential problems.

Clusterfuck.
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Cassius

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #88 on: August 15, 2014, 09:30:38 am »

Either way those 50m coins cannot be allowed to hit another exchange if it's avoidable.
Is it possible to stop them going through MGW?
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devphp

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #89 on: August 15, 2014, 09:30:43 am »

NXT will be destroyed by the 50 Million slow dump in the following months.

No, it will not be destroyed. On the contrary, if a rollback is done, many people will sell, because all they stood for investing in NXT will have failed.
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EvilDave

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #90 on: August 15, 2014, 09:30:51 am »

WAIT ON THE ROLLBACK
Its a bad option, but all I'm seeing are bad options.

We can shutdown the hacker if needed, but lets talk to the bastard first.
I suggest letting him walk with 10%, if BTER can take the hit
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yassin54

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #91 on: August 15, 2014, 09:30:56 am »

I want to go on record as being against a rollback, painful though it may be.

Hypothetical situation:

- I have done a BIG business deal and made a killing.
- Then this happens and we decide to do a roll back
- I lose ALL my business and my partner decides to renege on the deal because of this.
- BOOM, we're completely done.

Painful as it is, we stand to lose all credibility as a platform. We cannot roll back.

Bter has already stated that this is their mishap. This is business risk.

I like Bter, I really do. They have been great on several occasions. But this, we just cannot do, for any reason.

We need to get out of panic mode and see the larger picture here.
Do NOT think with your wallets! Please think of the larger picture.

ok no problem
but
it is the first and last time

sorry english not good  ;D ;D ;D

mikesbmw

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #92 on: August 15, 2014, 09:31:09 am »

Bad precedent guys... I loose 20k but say no to this
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BitcoinForumator

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #93 on: August 15, 2014, 09:31:51 am »

No rollback.

Let Bter pay BTC to the thief, mistake costs.

Although I hate the idea of the thief getting away with it.
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Cassius

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #94 on: August 15, 2014, 09:32:08 am »

WAIT ON THE ROLLBACK
Its a bad option, but all I'm seeing are bad options.

We can shutdown the hacker if needed, but lets talk to the bastard first.
I suggest letting him walk with 10%, if BTER can take the hit

Right. We're talking least-worst here. This is least-worst. Let's start there and see what our options are.
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wert

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #95 on: August 15, 2014, 09:32:28 am »

this is crazy
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devphp

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #96 on: August 15, 2014, 09:32:34 am »

If it happens once, all the crypto community will say NXT is centralized like a central bank and it will happen again, and they will be 100% right about this.
Many NXTers will go back to Bitcoin and forget this failure called NXT.
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Graviton

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #97 on: August 15, 2014, 09:32:46 am »

Quote
- I have done a BIG business deal and made a killing.
- Then this happens and we decide to do a roll back
- I lose ALL my business and my partner decides to renege on the deal because of this.

Hypothetical. There is no such circumstances, just relatively small transactions. This is a one off deal, not a questions of principle.

BTER will compensate for the mess or they will be boycotten by everyone.

50 million NXT extra left for the market is a huge liability that has a high risk of twisting the market beyond recovery.

Quote
Let Bter pay BTC to the thief, mistake costs.

BTER is not able to do that, let alone buy extra 50M dump back from market.
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abuelau

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #98 on: August 15, 2014, 09:33:13 am »

So here's a proposal for the hacker: He sends 80% (40M) back to bter and we don't roll back. How about this?

neozaru

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Re: Forgers have been faced with a choice...
« Reply #99 on: August 15, 2014, 09:33:47 am »

I don't understand. Is this a bug of NXT system ? If yes, a rollback could be legit. If not, a rollback doesn't make sense.

From what I know :

  • NXT is a decentralized system/consensus which provides trust
  • The consensus ensures that transactions have been DONE and can't be cancelled
  • The thief was done in a centralized system (BTER). To me, that's not an NXT problem.
  • Even if n-1 user agree for a rollback, the 1 remaining user could have legit transaction cancelled. Where is the trust ?


Tell me if I'm wrong.
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