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Democracy Counts! (an effort to create a global secure eVoting standard) singapore
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Author Topic: Democracy Counts! (an effort to create a global secure eVoting standard)  (Read 7239 times)

EvilDave

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Keep digging.
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websioux

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Regarding security due to price level, Nxt is probably not mature enough to secure a national election yet. The cost to acquire 51% may well be lower than what can produce the power to control such election.. For the demo it should be ok, but at a conceptual level to generalize it will require the system to be much more economically supported. Back to the same problem. Nxt is great but needs to be used and spread a lot to achieve full potential.. great project to watch.
 
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remix

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Regarding security due to price level, Nxt is probably not mature enough to secure a national election yet. The cost to acquire 51% may well be lower than what can produce the power to control such election..

Maybe that's true, but "double spending" votes is not as profitable as double spending coins. It seems to have the same effect as the voter changing his own vote, which normally is possible anyway. But for the system to work there has to be some number of honest forgers to get the votes added to the blockchain.
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websioux

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I don't understand that you could  change vote with 51% but you could prevent the transaction you want to go through..

Envoyé de mon GT-I9195 en utilisant Tapatalk

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NxtSwe

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I don't understand that you could  change vote with 51% but you could prevent the transaction you want to go through..

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You can't, but you could refuse to accept transactions with unwanted votes into the blockchain as you have the majority of forging power.
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remix

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I don't understand that you could  change vote with 51% but you could prevent the transaction you want to go through..

Envoyé de mon GT-I9195 en utilisant Tapatalk
You can't, but you could refuse to accept transactions with unwanted votes into the blockchain as you have the majority of forging power.

I think the 51% is calculated for a double spend. In voting you need to get your transaction included in any block before the finish height. In a double spend a transaction has to get included in a block earlier than a competing transaction. Seems like a different situation to me.
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alec.hahn

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Hello Dear NXT community,

My Name is Alec Hahn. I am the founder of Bitcoin42 (bitcoin42(dot)com) who is running since 2013 the first Multicoin ATMs in the world! If you want write an email to alec(at)bitcoin42(dot)com or contact(at)alechahn(dot)de an I will respond to you to confirm it's me and I'm not impersonating.

Devlux aka Devin Luker (see about section) is for real. Our system, or better standard is generally coin agnostic designed, but there are always pro's and con's that we need to keep in mind and it seems that NXT is the way to go. You need to know that I am a big Proof of Stake fan, but never really got into the NXT band wagon that much, but that seems to change. As for PR... yes we really need some work done here. We'll probably have a wordpress news/blog not too far from now ready where we can release updates. We are getting more people on board who are ready to help and I hope this community is not as distrustful as what we experienced at the Doge community. 

Okey... there is so much more I could talk about. This are just my two cents for now.

Just wanted to chim in here and give my friend Devlux some kudos.

Best,
Alec
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 10:33:37 pm by alec.hahn »
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devlux

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Keep in mind, Alec is a native German speaker.
I believe what he means by distrust, is resistance to the idea.  It was fruitful resistance though.  Several people at DOGE pointed at holes in the design that made DOGE unsuitable despite being a good candidate for this on paper.

Which is why we went searching for something to address that.  We still have not yet solved all the problems we are trying to solve.

But of every currency we have looked at NXT comes the closest.  Assuming the June pilot goes off without too much of a hitch we will contribute development efforts to solving scaling etc and stay on NXT.  So yes the pilot is NXT powered now.
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devlux

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Hello Everyone,
Hello devlux.

Interesting project!

When or where can we see the whitepaper I believe you mentioned before?

You mention the votes can be monitored in real time, has this been a goal from the start or is this a side effect of the system design?
I can imagine election outcomes will be influenced by this, don't you think elections are supposed to be undecided until the counting starts?

Also, why exactly the need for running full nodes?
Why not use remote nodes on some powerful server? With client side signature signing this can be done completely trust less.

Thanks.

It's coming soon, hopefully done today.  It's just a major refactor of a document I hadn't looked at myself in 5 or 6 months.

The original whitepaper was based on Bitcoin & derived currencies and rules out proof of stake because of the possibility of economic control attacks which is exactly what you folks are debating right now.  I have a solution to fix that, just never wrote it down into a white paper because of time constraints.  It would take a change to the consensus rules (of course), but nothing earth shattering.

The primary reason for adopting NXT for the pilot, is that to make Bitcoin derived currencies suitable we would need to tack on the message box feature.  We can encode a single vote in a single transaction, but it gets really complicated with m of n (choose any 3 of these 5 candidates for the school board), and requires a message box functionality if we want to allow bespoke or write in choices. 

Adding those features to existing currencies and gaining traction from the community would be a hell of a lot harder than giving an existing PoS coin like NXT a viable option to prevent 51% attacks.  The option to prevent a 51% economic attack, would benefit the coin as a whole and harm no one.  But I really want to draw that into a separate thing and present it to Jean Luc and Riker before putting it out there for the community because I need their feedback to know if it would break more than it fixes when it comes to NXT in particular.

To address your particular concern, there is no way to make it impossible to monitor the outcomes in realtime and also assure the sanctity of the vote unless we encrypt the voter's choices and wait to count until it's all over and done with.  So yes it's possible.  However watching the counting occur in realtime is an intentional auditing feature and you might want to debate it with Dan because I don't disagree with your position.  :)
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BajaDawn

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Hello everyone, my name is Dawn Parker-Waites and I am one of the founders of Democracy Counts. We are really excited to be collaborating with the NXT community. I have a background in business, communications, new media and social justice.

I apologize for my brief introduction, I am traveling right now but wanted to say thanks for all of the support and enthusiasm. I am really looking forward to engaging with you on this project to make elections legitimate and fully transparent! It is time.

Cheers!
Dawn
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devlux

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Is there a confirmation this project will be using Nxt coming from someone other than devlux?

http://www.democracycounts.org/
Hit the "About Us" button, scroll down,  then try to figure out which one is Devlux....

I went to that page before I asked. The name doesn't prove anything, anyone can set up a website with photos of other people. I wouldn't care if he didn't have an asset on sale. The last thing this community needs is another "failure" at the asset exchange. Due diligence, dear Dave.

Agreed, let's make sure Evolve doesn't fail.  But right now it can only be sold via private offering, which is why there are no sell offers out, only buy offers.  Come May 1st that won't be an issue, but Evolve has nothing to do with Democracy Counts, other than the fact that I'm involved in both projects.
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farl4bit

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Thanks for your introduction Dawn. Your project is really promising and Nxt can be a great platform to use it on. Good luck and looking forward for updates.  :)
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devlux

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Woohoo!  We got our own sub board!  Thanks Bas!
https://nxtforum.org/democracy-counts!/
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EvilDave

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Quick thumbs-up from me, and welcome to Dawn and Alec. ;D
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Damelon

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Hello Dear NXT community,

My Name is Alec Hahn. I am the founder of Bitcoin42 (bitcoin42(dot)com) who is running since 2013 the first Multicoin ATMs in the world! If you want write an email to alec(at)bitcoin42(dot)com or contact(at)alechahn(dot)de an I will respond to you to confirm it's me and I'm not impersonating.

Devlux aka Devin Luker (see about section) is for real. Our system, or better standard is generally coin agnostic designed, but there are always pro's and con's that we need to keep in mind and it seems that NXT is the way to go. You need to know that I am a big Proof of Stake fan, but never really got into the NXT band wagon that much, but that seems to change. As for PR... yes we really need some work done here. We'll probably have a wordpress news/blog not too far from now ready where we can release updates. We are getting more people on board who are ready to help and I hope this community is not as distrustful as what we experienced at the Doge community. 

Okey... there is so much more I could talk about. This are just my two cents for now.

Just wanted to chim in here and give my friend Devlux some kudos.

Best,
Alec

Hello everyone, my name is Dawn Parker-Waites and I am one of the founders of Democracy Counts. We are really excited to be collaborating with the NXT community. I have a background in business, communications, new media and social justice.

I apologize for my brief introduction, I am traveling right now but wanted to say thanks for all of the support and enthusiasm. I am really looking forward to engaging with you on this project to make elections legitimate and fully transparent! It is time.

Cheers!
Dawn


Welcome to the both of you! :)

Looking forward to seeing this project be a success!
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Veritas

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Greetings, NXT community! 

I am a relative latecomer to the DemocracyCounts! project, having met Dan in late March of this year.  Dan attended Reed College, as did I, and posted on the college message board when he brought his daughter out to visit Reed.  I thought the projects he was working on sounded interesting and contacted him.  When he told me about the audit system, I pushed him to aim for the California primary on June 7th as a beta test.

I am a devoted critical thinker and idealist with the desire to make our human systems more fair and meritocratic.  My background is in analytic philosophy (I edited the MIT Journal Artificial Life for several years) and my future field is in medicine, which could use a systemic overhaul (in the US) as much as our political system. 

While the timeline for the beta is ambitious, if we have the support of developers from NXT and elsewhere, I think it is possible.  At present, in the US, we have no independent checks on the official tally of votes, and I'd like to know that our votes are counted accurately in our elections.   

-Kellyn Bardeen
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 11:42:50 pm by Veritas »
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devlux

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Hi Kellyn, we've moved over here now :),

https://nxtforum.org/democracy-counts!/
sorry I just realized I left you off on the email blast to announce it.

Also I have a new whitepaper for you to check on. 
Only thing we need now are social media shares and boots on the ground.  I've got big surprise for you on Monday's meeting :D
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 11:48:14 pm by devlux »
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