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[ANN] Jinn
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Author Topic: [ANN] Jinn  (Read 425856 times)

chanc3r

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #120 on: September 24, 2014, 11:31:34 am »

Excellent - missed this so this is a commitment to adjust what bidders paid if AE transacts the match at a price higher than the seller...
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #121 on: September 24, 2014, 11:32:15 am »

My understanding of a dutch auction powered by Asset Exchange is that everybody bids the max price they are willing to pay. After the seller places the ask order at a fixed price he refunds difference between the lowest and actual bid prices. This approach eliminates bid wars for the most of the buyers (except those whose orders are close to 100'000 threshold counting from the top bid order).
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devphp

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #122 on: September 24, 2014, 11:33:17 am »

Why are bid wars bad?
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chanc3r

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #123 on: September 24, 2014, 11:34:16 am »

My understanding of a dutch auction powered by Asset Exchange is that everybody bids the max price they are willing to pay. After the seller places the ask order at a fixed price he refunds difference between the ask and the bid prices. This approach eliminates bid wars for the most of the buyers (except those whose orders are close to 100'000 threshold counting from the top bid order).

It just means you have the bidding war before you place the sell order assuming demand > supply in the order book of course ;)
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #124 on: September 24, 2014, 11:34:28 am »

Why are bid wars bad?

It's not fair for those who don't forge blocks (they pay fees to themselves) or don't have trading bots.
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devphp

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #125 on: September 24, 2014, 11:37:05 am »

Some sort of bidding war will not be avoided anyway and chances are someone will find it unfair :)
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cc001

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #126 on: September 24, 2014, 11:39:37 am »

Yes, every winning bid will pay the same price as is standard procedure in dutch auction.

Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?
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devphp

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #127 on: September 24, 2014, 11:41:59 am »

Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?

There you go, a bidding war plan being conceived here :)
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #128 on: September 24, 2014, 11:42:17 am »

Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?

You are not satisfied that the proposed way of asset distribution is more beneficial for you than what you expected?
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rtrtcrypto

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #129 on: September 24, 2014, 11:47:10 am »

I'm very curious to see what price is triggered...

I'm going to put my guess at 33 NXT per share. I think a total valuation of 33 million NXT and a starting push of 3.3 million NXT for expenses sounds workable.

The crazy high bids in the 100's of NXT per share won't find 100,000 shares worth of investors (I don't think) - that would be a valuation of 100+ million NXT for JINN as of right now. The highest bids give a theoretical/potential valuation of 500 million NXT for JINN!!!

 

« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 11:59:19 am by rtrtcrypto »
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cc001

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #130 on: September 24, 2014, 11:49:05 am »

Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?

You are not satisfied that the proposed way of asset distribution is more beneficial for you than what you expected?

It's not about me. I'm trying to figure out if/how that kind of auction will work. I actually like it, but I thought everybody should pay the price he offered. But we'll see (And I will think more about it...) ;)
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chanc3r

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #131 on: September 24, 2014, 11:50:11 am »

Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?

There you go, a bidding war plan being conceived here :)

come on guys... the way it works is this...
once there are over 100k assets worth of bids and the BUY ladder is saturated.
the seller works down from the top of the ladder and submits a sell order at the optimum price (the dutch auction price!)
basically its a cool way for the seller to get the maximum (hopefully reasonable) initial market price to sell all the assets
rather than issuing shares at 10NXT to only see them trading at 50NXT and having missed an investment opportunity.

if there isn't enough demand the seller can still set an initial market floor for the assets by selling part way up the buy ladder.

done responsibly I do think its a way of getting more investment into the asset rather than the lucky speculators making a killing in early trading.
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devphp

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #132 on: September 24, 2014, 11:55:47 am »

come on guys... the way it works is this...
once there are over 100k assets worth of bids and the BUY ladder is saturated.
the seller works down from the top of the ladder and submits a sell order at the optimum price (the dutch auction price!)
basically its a cool way for the seller to get the maximum (hopefully reasonable) initial market price to sell all the assets
rather than issuing shares at 10NXT to only see them trading at 50NXT and having missed an investment opportunity.

if there isn't enough demand the seller can still set an initial market floor for the assets by selling part way up the buy ladder.

done responsibly I do think its a way of getting more investment into the asset rather than the lucky speculators making a killing in early trading.

Yeah, that's clear. What's not clear is after the sale is over is Triangle supposed to manually return the difference to everyone or does AE return it automatically, closing the deal at the seller's price?
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cc001

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #133 on: September 24, 2014, 11:56:08 am »

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutchauction.asp

everybody pays the same price.
Looking forward to see that on our AE!  :)
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gs02xzz

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #134 on: September 24, 2014, 12:02:52 pm »

Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?

Yes. You can see that if you estimate the price will be 50 Nxt you won't bid for 10000 Nxt per share because you will only get 100 shares instead of 20000 shares as you can afford if you correctly bid for 50 Nxt.

So this will prevent a bidding war because people have to think a balance between the max shares they can get and the max possibility they can win.

Edit - this is about how you evaluate this project at this stage with consideration of all the risk and the potentials and roughly guess a price and build your bidding strategy around that price, imho.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 12:15:07 pm by gs02xzz »
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youyou

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #135 on: September 24, 2014, 12:08:35 pm »

Yes, every winning bid will pay the same price as is standard procedure in dutch auction.

Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?

yes but you need enough liquidity to place the bid (1M NXT in your example).
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marek3ball

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #136 on: September 24, 2014, 12:11:47 pm »

As I see it, spare nxt are needed. In case I would like to buy shares for 12000 NXT then I should buy 20000 NXT where the 8000 NXT will be my insurance to get some shares and don't end up with zero.
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Ludom

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #137 on: September 24, 2014, 12:14:21 pm »

Yes, every winning bid will pay the same price as is standard procedure in dutch auction.

Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?

yes but you need enough liquidity to place the bid (1M NXT in your example).

And if a lot of bidders make the same over valued bid, you will pay a higher price. If you want to take the risk, no problem for me...
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cc001

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #138 on: September 24, 2014, 12:16:58 pm »

Yep, I get it now.
Very interesting to see that on the Asset Exchange!
That could be a new kind of IPO for future projects.
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Triangle

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #139 on: September 24, 2014, 12:38:54 pm »


Thanks. Ok. It's your call. But wouldn't this method favour heavily the prosperous nxters? Should I have 50 million nxt I could offer a 10k for a share and easily secure 5000 assets for myself without the fear of paying overprice. Hard to compete with only few thousand loose nxt in this race :-\

Btw is the minimum price set already i.e. you will execute the sell of all 100 000 assets as soon as you have the critical amount of offers over certain price? Or are you still calculating the possible price and waiting for the market to build up first?

Any method will always favour the heavily prosperous, simply because they can always bid higher. But dutch auction means that your bid for small volume at a slightly higher price beats out the whale who tries to buy up everything for a slightly lower price, if there's enough volume that is.

But eventhough we want the communiy involved (and there will be other types of oppoutunities to be involved), our priority in this project is naturally to have Jinn succeed. So if some rich person wants to invest a significant sum we are not opposed to this, because it'll make it easier and faster to complete Jinn.

We do have some numbers in mind yes, but to keep the auction fair I can't reveal any "hints".
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