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[ANN] Jinn
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Author Topic: [ANN] Jinn  (Read 357744 times)

Come-from-Beyond

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #100 on: September 24, 2014, 07:42:06 am »

I noticed that "Risk assessment" section of the prospectus didn't mention Jiniri.

Development of Jinn requires an emulator to be created (Jiniri). The emulator itself is a valuable software, because it can be used as a back-end for MMO-games or VR-worlds. This reduces financial risks.
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2Kool4Skewl

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #101 on: September 24, 2014, 08:19:38 am »

- Qubic doesn't compete with Nxt, we will be able to transfer the whole economy (you should continue building it) from Nxt to Qubic if Monetary System idea is not rejected by the community.
- One does not simply invest into Qubic, having Jinn-powered devices (an emulator will work too) is the only requirement to be able to produce qubics. No need to give me money, there won't be an IPO/ICO/whatever.

What exactly are Qubics?  Are they a transactional currency like NXT?  Is there going to be a set amount of Qubics and for every NXT a person has they get a Qubic?

Are the Jinn processors designed to handle forging transactions/calculations in Qubic?
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #102 on: September 24, 2014, 08:37:47 am »

What exactly are Qubics?  Are they a transactional currency like NXT?  Is there going to be a set amount of Qubics and for every NXT a person has they get a Qubic?

Are the Jinn processors designed to handle forging transactions/calculations in Qubic?

It's hard to explain what Qubic is. Let's focus on Jinn now.
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innovator256

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #103 on: September 24, 2014, 08:38:21 am »

I think having an assembly interpreter like a NASM port that could convert directly to tritecode would be useful.
Not sure how I feel about the JavaScript as a language choice, but it has the potential to be very good.
looking forward to the emulator, ill try to code some applications for it.

Also, what would it have in the way of operating systems? Would it have one built in or would one have to be created for this platform, I have a little OS experience and could lend a hand in some places.

It will be a distributed OS. One of the devices around will provide visualization (TVset), another will provide input of data (pen), the third one will provide storage functions (fridge, storage of data, not food).


Very interesting project, especially the javascript parts. As you know Ibm and others are looking into fabled internet of things, I heard that they are not beyond forking projects. whats to sop them from swiping and running to the patent office with a goon of lawyers? Anybody on your team thinking defensively?
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devphp

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #104 on: September 24, 2014, 08:39:05 am »

Apologies, missed it.
Yes, every winning bid will pay the same price as is standard procedure in dutch auction.

How will that work exactly?

Suppose you issue the bulk Ask order for 100k asset units @ X price when you're satisfied with the bids volume.

There are stacked Buy orders @ X, @X +1, @X + 5, etc. Those who have X + N price orders will be automatically charged only X*volume (is this how AE works?) or will they be charged the X + N price, and then you return the difference to them in manual operations?
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Cryptographer

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #105 on: September 24, 2014, 08:41:39 am »

this is the wrong way to evaluate, i'm pretty sure.

Nxt was an exception that proved the rule mentioned by Sebastien256, IMO.

Indeed, Nxt is now a way less risky than in december last year (and a lot more work have put into it since then)...

But..... 1 BTC in NXT last December would be $4.5 million now. I'll take a little risk, thanks...
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #106 on: September 24, 2014, 08:42:29 am »

whats to sop them from swiping and running to the patent office with a goon of lawyers? Anybody on your team thinking defensively?

This is not a technical question, I can't answer it, sorry.
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innovator256

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #107 on: September 24, 2014, 08:51:26 am »

whats to sop them from swiping and running to the patent office with a goon of lawyers? Anybody on your team thinking defensively?

This is not a technical question, I can't answer it, sorry.

touche...I guess you guys got it covered if not, well at least yall will start to think about it.
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youyou

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #108 on: September 24, 2014, 08:56:22 am »

Apologies, missed it.
Yes, every winning bid will pay the same price as is standard procedure in dutch auction.

How will that work exactly?

Suppose you issue the bulk Ask order for 100k asset units @ X price when you're satisfied with the bids volume.

There are stacked Buy orders @ X, @X +1, @X + 5, etc. Those who have X + N price orders will be automatically charged only X*volume (is this how AE works?) or will they be charged the X + N price, and then you return the difference to them in manual operations?

i think people who placed X+N price are charged X price and obtain the volume they asked.

(e.g if I place a bid of 10 jinn at 500 NXT and the price is decided to be 250, I obtain 10 jinn for 2500 NXT).

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buybitcoinscanada

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #109 on: September 24, 2014, 09:34:14 am »

A
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 11:05:47 pm by buybitcoinscanada »
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devphp

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #110 on: September 24, 2014, 09:54:48 am »

This post is going to be relevant, but somewhat off topic.

Noticing just now that the AE only shows a limited amount of bids/asks. While that may work fine for assets sold in a typical matter, in a Dutch Auction such as this it's actually quite important to be able to see the whole bid book as full depth is critical information when deciding at what price to place a bid. The way it displays gives the impression that there are no bids below a certain price, the bottom of which disappears as higher bids are placed. It's quite misleading to investors. To preempt anyone telling me to go to nxtreporting for full depth, that is for advanced information. Basic and critical information such as depth should be fully presented within the client, especially in such a circumstance as this. If orders out of the 50 count threshold are going to be hidden, there should be a button below the last one visible to load the whole depth. Or if it's for the purpose of eficiency, have an option for asset sale type on creation and if auction is selected, it displays the whole depth. Then only the occasional asset is putting on the extra load.

https://nxtblocks.info/#section/assets_exchange/market/3061160746493230502
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buybitcoinscanada

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #111 on: September 24, 2014, 10:01:13 am »

A
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 11:05:34 pm by buybitcoinscanada »
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devphp

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #112 on: September 24, 2014, 10:04:09 am »

To preempt anyone telling me to go to nxtreporting for full depth, that is for advanced information. Basic and critical information such as depth should be fully presented within the client, especially in such a circumstance as this.

Should've put this as a first sentence :)
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chanc3r

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #113 on: September 24, 2014, 10:59:50 am »


i think people who placed X+N price are charged X price and obtain the volume they asked.

(e.g if I place a bid of 10 jinn at 500 NXT and the price is decided to be 250, I obtain 10 jinn for 2500 NXT).

AE can be a little counter intuitive compared to other exchanges, this is how I think it works (someone please correct me I could be completely wrong about this!)

If you place a BUY at Y and the SELL order is X then

if X > Y - no sale

If X =< Y - then I think the sale takes place at Y not X (buyer beware!)

SO if you place an order for 100 at 100 and lots of other people place orders for 100 at 50...

if the seller places an order at 75 - you get yours for 10000 and the others get nothing until they rebid.
if the seller places an order at 50 - you get yours for 10000 and the others get theirs for 5000

what I don't think happens is you get your 100 at the Seller price of 50...

If the order book demand is higher than the supply then the orders are matched how.
I think its where the BUYER price is the same or higher and then in blockchain order??
So get your orders in early? but be prepared to pay the price you submit on the understanding you may overpay?
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devphp

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #114 on: September 24, 2014, 11:07:29 am »

If you place a BUY at Y and the SELL order is X then

if X > Y - no sale

If X =< Y - then I think the sale takes place at Y not X (buyer beware!)

That's my understanding too. It means the asset issuer in the Dutch auction must manually compensate the difference if everyone is supposed to get the same price. But I don't see why everyone getting the same price is even important or necessary. If someone has an advantage to be the first buyer, they must pay for this privilege with a higher price.
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chanc3r

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #115 on: September 24, 2014, 11:18:22 am »

If you place a BUY at Y and the SELL order is X then

if X > Y - no sale

If X =< Y - then I think the sale takes place at Y not X (buyer beware!)

That's my understanding too. It means the asset issuer in the Dutch auction must manually compensate the difference if everyone is supposed to get the same price. But I don't see why everyone getting the same price is even important or necessary. If someone has an advantage to be the first buyer, they must pay for this privilege with a higher price.

I agree.

I am not saying its a problem - I am trying to make sure people make 'fact full' decisions in participating so they know the consequences of the bid they choose to make and I don't see any *promise* of compensating the overbids...

I think its an interesting new use case for AE and we see how it works.
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cc001

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #116 on: September 24, 2014, 11:19:57 am »

If you place a BUY at Y and the SELL order is X then

if X > Y - no sale

If X =< Y - then I think the sale takes place at Y not X (buyer beware!)

That's my understanding too. It means the asset issuer in the Dutch auction must manually compensate the difference if everyone is supposed to get the same price. But I don't see why everyone getting the same price is even important or necessary. If someone has an advantage to be the first buyer, they must pay for this privilege with a higher price.

Everybody pays the price he agrees is fair for him, namely his buy offer. He can offer a lower buy price, but risks to not receive any asset if his price was too low. If he wants to have that asset for sure, he has to offer a higher price.
The system would not work if everybody would pay the same lower price, because everybody would offer a very high price, to be at the top of the list, knowing they will pay only a lower price.
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devphp

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #117 on: September 24, 2014, 11:21:59 am »

Everybody pays the price he agrees is fair for him, namely his buy offer. He can offer a lower buy price, but risks to not receive any asset if his price was too low. If he wants to have that asset for sure, he has to offer a higher price.
The system would not work if everybody would pay the same lower price, because everybody would offer a very high price, to be at the top of the list, knowing they will pay only a lower price.

Yes, this is logical and that's exactly what I am talking about. It's not clear where this "everybody will get the same price" comes from.
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LiQio

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #118 on: September 24, 2014, 11:28:17 am »


Yes, this is logical and that's exactly what I am talking about. It's not clear where this "everybody will get the same price" comes from.

That's probably where it comes from:

Here is another explanation of Dutch auction: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutchauction.asp

"However, the price that each bidder pays is based on the lowest price of all the allotted bidders, or essentially the last successful bid. Therefore, even if you bid $100 for your 1,000 shares, if the last successful bid is $80, you will only have to pay $80 for your 1,000 shares."

So, will you be selecting the clearing price necessary for you to sell all 100,000 shares? And then you will refund nxt to those persons who bid higher than the clearing price?

This allbits' question has not been answered yet? It's essential information whether or not every winning bid will pay the same price.

Apologies, missed it.
Yes, every winning bid will pay the same price as is standard procedure in dutch auction.

devphp

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #119 on: September 24, 2014, 11:29:58 am »

I guess we'll find out how it works exactly when the Ask order is issued :)
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