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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #80 on: September 23, 2014, 09:25:27 pm »

Well, I'm not exactly an expert but I have some limited experience with embedded electronics and I think that is at best a very dismissive answer. Perhaps there is some reason why this isn't relevant to the use cases you have in mind - perhaps programming the processor for some specific jobs is different from programming the device in general or something like that? That may be the case, but I do know that programming appliance and devices and the internet of things does definitely require a lower level language than Javascript.

A compiler will translate Abracadabra into trytes that will be fed to the processor. You were writting code in assembly because the electronics manufacturer didn't bother with providing high-level language libraries.
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Triangle

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #81 on: September 23, 2014, 09:46:38 pm »

Why only 10%? how much money are you trying to raise? how did you calculate that? is that a seed round? where the product stand? do you guys have a business plan?

10% is chosen due to the sheer size of the project, we've done calculations on it, though there are many, many hidden variables. The straight forward way of thinking about it is that a significant portion of the remaining assets will be given to developers and hardware designers that we bring onboard. And the lock in periods is exactly there to make sure we are very calculating and methodical with the funds. We are planning on reaching the milestones in an efficient, but also controlled manner.

There will naturally be more juicy bits of info being presented over the coming weeks, but that's the nature of investment. If you are early, you take a higher risk and earn a higher reward.

Quote

My concern as potential investor is that you will raise a lot of money, and when you multiply it by x10 (as 10%) you will get an unrealistic value for your project;

We are not worried about this at all, our prospectus clearly outlines everything in regards to the assets, so the market adjusts for this already. Some will invest long term, some short term since they know supply will be limited in quite a predictable time period.
Quote

Plus the I really don't like the dutch auction idea - its not being friendly towards the initial investors instead of encouraging them;

Everyone has different opinions of the ways one does a public offering and that is fine. We firmly believe in giving everyone the same price in the initial offering in terms of fairness.

Quote
For now i'll wait to see the value after the IPO and maybe join in few month after as the idea sounds interesting (checking it with some people from the industry) and the people behind it seems to be quite skilled

Thanks for the compliment! Stick around and you'll get more and more info as the time goes by, we will be very active in updating the project both on the forum, github and our website (which will soon be up in full). Invest whenever you feel comfortable :)
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nexern

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #82 on: September 23, 2014, 09:50:36 pm »

ok, assuming the concept is viable and you start the hardware design.
since prototyping is quite expensive do you plan to finance this by this ipo or the income from running the game?
( well, the direct question would be how much have you planned to start jinn? )

and a last one, how can i think about this cpu. something like transmeta or more than a soc controlling heavy multicores like parallella?

as said, very interested in distributed computing, so foreseeable hardware would fit perfect with my current project.

I can't answer financial questions, here is the answer on the technical one:

Jinn is an assymetrical system. It has a lot of cores that solve tactical/local tasks and a few cores that solve strategical/global tasks. Local tasks is just number crunching, global tasks is balancing of local tasks among other processors. The ultimate goal of global tasks is to minimize latency of local tasks communication. The interesting feature of this architecture is that global tasks can be computed by small cores leading to an effect similar to fractals. Several processors can be considered as local tasks and few of them can solve balancing problems only. Such groups of processors can be grouped into bigger clusters, then into metaclusters and so forth, repeating the fractals. In the end we get a lot of processors in usual things around as (fridge, bike, pen -> Internet of Things) that behave as a classical computer when cooperate on solving the same task.

understood, moreover i really would like to see a scaling/adapting SOM/SOFM on this. seems to me like a natural fit for this stuff.
nonetheless an ambitious project not only due to message passing, intra core communication and latency but for sure worth to try,
no matter what comes out. the good thing here is, that this architecture basicly doesn't depends on goodwill by big companies
providing resources. it could run in small with reduced usage but scale into deep at instant rate if resources are able and by demand.
i am in. well, at least i try to get in. ok, thx for your info and good luck.
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jones

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2014, 09:59:40 pm »

I think having an assembly interpreter like a NASM port that could convert directly to tritecode would be useful.
Not sure how I feel about the JavaScript as a language choice, but it has the potential to be very good.
looking forward to the emulator, ill try to code some applications for it.

Also, what would it have in the way of operating systems? Would it have one built in or would one have to be created for this platform, I have a little OS experience and could lend a hand in some places.
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profitofthegods

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2014, 10:03:27 pm »

Well, I'm not exactly an expert but I have some limited experience with embedded electronics and I think that is at best a very dismissive answer. Perhaps there is some reason why this isn't relevant to the use cases you have in mind - perhaps programming the processor for some specific jobs is different from programming the device in general or something like that? That may be the case, but I do know that programming appliance and devices and the internet of things does definitely require a lower level language than Javascript.

A compiler will translate Abracadabra into trytes that will be fed to the processor. You were writting code in assembly because the electronics manufacturer didn't bother with providing high-level language libraries.

No, I was dealing with code in C, and I was under the impression that this was because higher level languages can't address the hardware directly whereas lower level languages can. The fact that it is compiled rather than interpreted would make it more appropriate than JavaScript as its normally used I guess.
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #85 on: September 23, 2014, 10:04:17 pm »

I think having an assembly interpreter like a NASM port that could convert directly to tritecode would be useful.
Not sure how I feel about the JavaScript as a language choice, but it has the potential to be very good.
looking forward to the emulator, ill try to code some applications for it.

Also, what would it have in the way of operating systems? Would it have one built in or would one have to be created for this platform, I have a little OS experience and could lend a hand in some places.

It will be a distributed OS. One of the devices around will provide visualization (TVset), another will provide input of data (pen), the third one will provide storage functions (fridge, storage of data, not food).
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gvans

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #86 on: September 23, 2014, 10:26:53 pm »

Here is another explanation of Dutch auction: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutchauction.asp

"However, the price that each bidder pays is based on the lowest price of all the allotted bidders, or essentially the last successful bid. Therefore, even if you bid $100 for your 1,000 shares, if the last successful bid is $80, you will only have to pay $80 for your 1,000 shares."

So, will you be selecting the clearing price necessary for you to sell all 100,000 shares? And then you will refund nxt to those persons who bid higher than the clearing price?

This allbits' question has not been answered yet? It's essential information whether or not every winning bid will pay the same price.
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Triangle

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #87 on: September 23, 2014, 10:32:37 pm »

Here is another explanation of Dutch auction: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutchauction.asp

"However, the price that each bidder pays is based on the lowest price of all the allotted bidders, or essentially the last successful bid. Therefore, even if you bid $100 for your 1,000 shares, if the last successful bid is $80, you will only have to pay $80 for your 1,000 shares."

So, will you be selecting the clearing price necessary for you to sell all 100,000 shares? And then you will refund nxt to those persons who bid higher than the clearing price?

This allbits' question has not been answered yet? It's essential information whether or not every winning bid will pay the same price.

Apologies, missed it.
Yes, every winning bid will pay the same price as is standard procedure in dutch auction.
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gvans

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #88 on: September 23, 2014, 10:41:54 pm »

Here is another explanation of Dutch auction: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutchauction.asp

"However, the price that each bidder pays is based on the lowest price of all the allotted bidders, or essentially the last successful bid. Therefore, even if you bid $100 for your 1,000 shares, if the last successful bid is $80, you will only have to pay $80 for your 1,000 shares."

So, will you be selecting the clearing price necessary for you to sell all 100,000 shares? And then you will refund nxt to those persons who bid higher than the clearing price?

This allbits' question has not been answered yet? It's essential information whether or not every winning bid will pay the same price.

Apologies, missed it.
Yes, every winning bid will pay the same price as is standard procedure in dutch auction.

Thanks. Ok. It's your call. But wouldn't this method favour heavily the prosperous nxters? Should I have 50 million nxt I could offer a 10k for a share and easily secure 5000 assets for myself without the fear of paying overprice. Hard to compete with only few thousand loose nxt in this race :-\

Btw is the minimum price set already i.e. you will execute the sell of all 100 000 assets as soon as you have the critical amount of offers over certain price? Or are you still calculating the possible price and waiting for the market to build up first?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2014, 10:53:42 pm by gvans »
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qqNxt

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #89 on: September 24, 2014, 12:15:37 am »

You decide to create the Jinns project two years ago? For example, if this was all start 2 years ago, an upper bound woul be like 70 hours/weeks for you, if you dedicated 100% of your time on this. Are you working more than that  ??? :D

The idea is not to count every part that was made there and there before (if this is the case). Only count from the moment you said: I'm doing the Jinns project.

The estimation can be very crude.  I understand very well that previous experience should multiply by many factor the man-hours that I am looking for. Anyway, if you can't give me any estimate, it Ok. I won't make a scene of it... lol
We can count from the 30th of April 2014 when the name "Jinn" came to my mind - https://nxtforum.org/pub-crawl/rfc-project-'jinn'-(processor)/msg14306/#msg14306...

Or from the summer of 2012 when I wrote the ancestor of Jinn emulator (a framework called "Black Heart")...

Or from the autumn of 2010 when I rewrote server code from C to Java (for MMORPG "Apocatastasis")...

Or from the autumn of 2004 when I wrote first lines for the server part of my MMORTS (forgot its name)...

There is no a moment when I started working on Jinn. :)

i just realized cfb's mind is decentralized, he can't make up his mind.
that is why he is always leaving us confused with his ways of answer.

now imagine looking back from the year 2020, cfb praised as the inventor of jinn processor which caused perfection in artificial intelligent tech and the world is all digitized, with nxt as global reserve and global currencies are run on nxt's monetary system.

almost got an erection just then.  ;D
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martismartis

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #90 on: September 24, 2014, 05:53:27 am »

You decide to create the Jinns project two years ago? For example, if this was all start 2 years ago, an upper bound woul be like 70 hours/weeks for you, if you dedicated 100% of your time on this. Are you working more than that  ??? :D

The idea is not to count every part that was made there and there before (if this is the case). Only count from the moment you said: I'm doing the Jinns project.

The estimation can be very crude.  I understand very well that previous experience should multiply by many factor the man-hours that I am looking for. Anyway, if you can't give me any estimate, it Ok. I won't make a scene of it... lol

We can count from the 30th of April 2014 when the name "Jinn" came to my mind - https://nxtforum.org/pub-crawl/rfc-project-'jinn'-(processor)/msg14306/#msg14306...

Or from the summer of 2012 when I wrote the ancestor of Jinn emulator (a framework called "Black Heart")...

Or from the autumn of 2010 when I rewrote server code from C to Java (for MMORPG "Apocatastasis")...

Or from the autumn of 2004 when I wrote first lines for the server part of my MMORTS (forgot its name)...

There is no a moment when I started working on Jinn. :)

CFB, I think photo of you, posted here in forum, was fake :) Or you started Jinn project in kinder garden? :)
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youyou

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #91 on: September 24, 2014, 06:00:52 am »

really funny to count how many bids are placed up to 100k :)
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #92 on: September 24, 2014, 06:09:44 am »

CFB, I think photo of you, posted here in forum, was fake :) Or you started Jinn project in kinder garden? :)

I'm 35 y.o. now, I was of age when I started Jinn. :)
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #93 on: September 24, 2014, 06:36:45 am »

Answers on the questions related to Qubic that some people asked me:

- Jinn is required to solve problems that don't allow me to complete Qubic.
- I'm planning to release Qubic in ~4 years (or earlier if Jinn processors become widespread earlier).
- Qubic doesn't compete with Nxt, we will be able to transfer the whole economy (you should continue building it) from Nxt to Qubic if Monetary System idea is not rejected by the community.
- One does not simply invest into Qubic, having Jinn-powered devices (an emulator will work too) is the only requirement to be able to produce qubics. No need to give me money, there won't be an IPO/ICO/whatever.
- I'm not BCNext (almost noone believes me, I know).
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landomata

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #94 on: September 24, 2014, 06:46:47 am »


i just realized cfb's mind is decentralized, he can't make up his mind.
that is why he is always leaving us confused with his ways of answer.

now imagine looking back from the year 2020, cfb praised as the inventor of jinn processor which caused perfection in artificial intelligent tech and the world is all digitized, with nxt as global reserve and global currencies are run on nxt's monetary system.

almost got an erection just then.  ;D

Is Jinn the start of Skynet?

Internet of things....the Borg Collective.

« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 06:49:27 am by landomata »
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mikesbmw

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #95 on: September 24, 2014, 07:17:29 am »

Hi CfB,

will you make legal arrangements in your company to tie in the AE shares to real profit shares of your company or is this still based on trust?
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #96 on: September 24, 2014, 07:26:25 am »

Hi CfB,

will you make legal arrangements in your company to tie in the AE shares to real profit shares of your company or is this still based on trust?

I can answer only technical questions. If you want to get legal protection of your "investments" then you should take into account that I reside in Belarus which is out of reach of the USA and EU laws.
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Canaanite

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #97 on: September 24, 2014, 07:33:32 am »

Hi CfB,

will you make legal arrangements in your company to tie in the AE shares to real profit shares of your company or is this still based on trust?

I can answer only technical questions. If you want to get legal protection of your "investments" then you should take into account that I reside in Belarus which is out of reach of the USA and EU laws.

It doesn't matter...
Tax purposes, actual place, contacts, Incorporated company (with limited liability) and a lot more issues...
I know it will make me feel better to invest in such entity (even if its located at Belarus)
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Come-from-Beyond

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #98 on: September 24, 2014, 07:34:48 am »

It doesn't matter...
Tax purposes, actual place, contacts, Incorporated company (with limited liability) and a lot more issues...
I know it will make me feel better to invest in such entity (even if its located at Belarus)

I leave this question for other members of Triangle.
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mikesbmw

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Re: [ANN] Jinn
« Reply #99 on: September 24, 2014, 07:36:38 am »

Hi CfB,

will you make legal arrangements in your company to tie in the AE shares to real profit shares of your company or is this still based on trust?

I can answer only technical questions. If you want to get legal protection of your "investments" then you should take into account that I reside in Belarus which is out of reach of the USA and EU laws.
Well that's kinda my question: how and under which law will this be done  :D Can it even be done?

I see this question and answer:
ReplyQuote #54
Quote from: Berry on September 23, 2014, 06:31:15 pm
Nice project. Looks very interesting. But I´have a couple of questions.

- And if you sell the whole company the asset owner will get nothing, but their assets will become worthless, except the buying company decides to give the asset owner a goodwill?

Answer: If any sort of acquisition or exit strategy were to be employed the asset owner will continue to get 10% profit (by contract), be offered buy back at the current value or do a 1:1 transfer to equity. We will never ever sell the company and leave asset holders hanging.


That "by contract" sounds like: done by lawyers, approved by law.

It would be PRETTY huge if you manage to find a legal means to tie in AE shares to real world shares!
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