Nxt Forum

Nxt Discussion => Nxt Community News and Announcements => Topic started by: Triangle on September 23, 2014, 04:34:27 pm

Title: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 23, 2014, 04:34:27 pm
The Jinn project has been worked on diligently for months behind the scenes, and we are finally ready to share it with the world.

Jinn is the first modern ternary general purpose processor. The applications for this technology is virtually limitless, which you can read about in the prospectus.
We have been inundated with questions tied to this project, so we have also prepared a FAQ.
You will find both here www.jinnlabs.com (prospectus on top, FAQ at the bottom)

We also welcome developers to contribute and have a deeper look here: https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond/Jiniri

The Jinn asset offering will be done via a Dutch Auction. (Asset ID: 3061160746493230502)
This means that the chunk of 100,000 assets will be sold at once against the ladder of bid orders. The moment when this happens will not be disclosed in advance (to ensure fairness), nor the price at what it is sold will be revealed. We will do it once we decide that the offered price satisfies our needs to cover the R&D to reach our first benchmark.

What this means for you as a potential investor in Jinn: put up buy orders at the price you are willing to buy at and if it matches our number, you’ll get the assets.

More info about Dutch Auction here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_auction

Feel free to ask any additional questions that you may have in regards to the project or asset offering in this thread.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: bitcoinpaul on September 23, 2014, 04:35:57 pm
How can I throw money at u to make more money, do I have to wait for the assets?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Meizirkki on September 23, 2014, 04:39:48 pm
Could you share further details about the hardware design, and how far have you already got with it?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cobaltskky on September 23, 2014, 04:42:32 pm
How can I throw money at u to make more money, do I have to wait for the assets?

I have the same question. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 23, 2014, 04:45:23 pm
Didn't see the prospectus and FAQ on the website.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 23, 2014, 04:48:30 pm
How can I throw money at u to make more money, do I have to wait for the assets?

I have the same question. :)

Yes we want the asset id...  ;D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: k_day on September 23, 2014, 04:48:37 pm
congrats on the beginning of your second project BCNe...errr CfB!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 23, 2014, 04:49:12 pm
congrats on the beginning of your second project BCNe...errr CfB!

haha I was thinking the same thing!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 23, 2014, 04:51:04 pm
How can I throw money at u to make more money, do I have to wait for the assets?


I have the same question. :)

We updated the post now with an explanation (as well as asset ID ) of how the auction goes to make it a bit simpler to understand.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 23, 2014, 04:53:12 pm
ho god, i don't like ducht auction..  ::)
I wanted the asset now  :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Cassius on September 23, 2014, 04:54:35 pm
Watching
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 04:54:47 pm
Could you share further details about the hardware design, and how far have you already got with it?

In a nutshell, it's something between Intel's CPU and NVidia's GPU.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: spaw on September 23, 2014, 04:56:47 pm
You're only going to auction off 100,000 shares or you're auctioning them 100,000 at a time?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gvans on September 23, 2014, 05:01:39 pm
Precaution, I think some established member should verify Triange's announcement, just to be 101% sure :)

edit: cfb did it already!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 05:03:14 pm
Precaution, I think some established member should verify Triange's announcement, just to be 101% sure :)

edit: cfb did it already!

No, my account could be hacked.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 23, 2014, 05:04:04 pm
To give us an idea of the value of your business, how many man-hours has been put into this project already? conservative upper and lower bound would be interesting. TY
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gvans on September 23, 2014, 05:05:59 pm

No, my account could be hacked.

Excuse my english... I just meant confirm this Triange's topic to be valid which you kind of did by replying  ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: bitcoinpaul on September 23, 2014, 05:06:32 pm

No, my account could be hacked.

Excuse my english... I just meant confirm this Triange's topic to be valid which you kind of did by replying  ;)

His account could have been hacked.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gvans on September 23, 2014, 05:09:24 pm

No, my account could be hacked.

Excuse my english... I just meant confirm this Triange's topic to be valid which you kind of did by replying  ;)

His account could have been hacked.


Dang, only now I got it.. Oh well, it could be hacked, it's either true false or unknown.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Jacinto on September 23, 2014, 05:11:52 pm

We updated the post....

Who are we (apart from CfB I suppose...)?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 23, 2014, 05:14:10 pm
Are the 100,000 shares all you plan to sell in this round? (yes, the info is in the prospectus)

How do you not reveal the sell prices if the transactions are on the AE?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 23, 2014, 05:17:38 pm
Are the 100,000 shares all you plan to sell in this round?

How do you not reveal the sell prices if the transactions are on the AE?

They will dump in the bid when they feel it is the right time... lol
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: abuelau on September 23, 2014, 05:17:43 pm
This sounds cool.

Can you explain why didn't Intel or AMD think of this?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 23, 2014, 05:19:52 pm
This sounds cool.

Can you explain why didn't Intel or AMD think of this?

cos they dont come from beyond :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on September 23, 2014, 05:20:34 pm
This sounds cool.

Can you explain why didn't Intel or AMD think of this?

Because it's far more profitable for them to sell vertical scaling processors.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 23, 2014, 05:21:51 pm
I don't usually sell processors, but when I do, it's horizontal scaling ones.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: 2Kool4Skewl on September 23, 2014, 05:27:19 pm

We updated the post....

Who are we (apart from CfB I suppose...)?

This.

Also, where are the team members located and what country is the company incorporated in?

BTW, I like the logo.  :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 05:30:13 pm
To give us an idea of the value of your business, how many man-hours has been put into this project already? conservative upper and lower bound would be interesting. TY

I have been working in game development since ~1997 (you can find some my gamedev-related articles dated by the last century). At some point (~2004) I switched to MMO-games (back-end part). The performance of MMOG engines didn't satisfy me even after I tried to squeeze every ounce of it from what I had. I moved from operating system level closer to the silicon (BareMetal OS (http://www.returninfinity.com/baremetal.html) and UEFI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface)) but it only made obvious the fact that instant processing of events in distributed environment is impossible. Jinn is launched to provide a way to come as close to the limits of this world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAP_theorem) as possible.

How many man-hours has been put? I spent years on that, Jinn is sprung from the very dream that made me to study a big bunch of programming languages and technologies.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: bezbezbez on September 23, 2014, 05:31:26 pm
This sounds cool.

Can you explain why didn't Intel or AMD think of this?

IBM Think about it.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 05:39:12 pm
This sounds cool.

Can you explain why didn't Intel or AMD think of this?

They did for sure. But they can't sell hardware that doesn't have software to run.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: BitcoinForumator on September 23, 2014, 05:41:34 pm
To give us an idea of the value of your business, how many man-hours has been put into this project already? conservative upper and lower bound would be interesting. TY

I have been working in game development since ~1997 (you can find some my gamedev-related articles dated by the last century). At some point (~2004) I switched to MMO-games (back-end part). The performance of MMOG engines didn't satisfy me even after I tried to squeeze every ounce of it from what I had. I moved from operating system level closer to the silicon (BareMetal OS (http://www.returninfinity.com/baremetal.html) and UEFI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface)) but it only made obvious the fact that instant processing of events in distributed environment is impossible. Jinn is launched to provide a way to come as close to the limits of this world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAP_theorem) as possible.

How many man-hours has been put? I spent years on that, Jinn is sprung from the very dream that made me to study a big bunch of programming languages and technologies.

God damn, are you an engineer or a nigger?!

(btw, the quote is from the movie 12 years a slave, to emphasize how impressed I am by reading this. But you should watch the full movie and this scene to get a proper effect)

It's very near this scene on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOUqVuNzkA8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOUqVuNzkA8)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 23, 2014, 05:42:18 pm
Are the 100,000 shares all you plan to sell in this round? (yes, the info is in the prospectus)

How do you not reveal the sell prices if the transactions are on the AE?

The price will be revealed when the sale is complete, but not before. This is to ensure 100% fairness to everyone.


They will dump in the bid when they feel it is the right time... lol

Yes we thought about all the ways we could do it and landed on Dutch Auction due to it being the most fair for investors.
Dutch auctions is generally considered more democratic due to the price being the only thing that determines who gets shares.


We updated the post....

Who are we (apart from CfB I suppose...)?

The founders and core team is Come-from-Beyond & Uniqueorn.
But we are also building a team for specific tasks that needs to be completed in this project, so for anyone that is interested in potentially being a part of this project: your oppourtunity will come.
Details surrounding job oppourtunities will come at a later date.

Also, where are the team members located and what country is the company incorporated in?

BTW, I like the logo.  :)

Thanks, we spent a lot of time selecting the logo!

The core team/founders is located in: Norway and  Belarus.
Incorporation of the company is actively being looked into, it's very important for us that it's a permanent and sustainable incorporation, more details surrounding this will be released at a later date.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 23, 2014, 05:43:27 pm
How many man-hours has been put? I spent years on that, Jinn is sprung from the very dream that made me to study a big bunch of programming languages and technologies.

Altough I feel some sentiment in your response and it feel pretty honnest, I would like a more factual response instead.

From the date you decide to do Jins, how many-man hours (you and collegue have put thru). I'll put some factor to take into account previous experiences, etc...
This is just to give me an overall idea of the current value of the business and decide my bid toward the asset.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: bitcoinpaul on September 23, 2014, 05:49:20 pm
How many man-hours has been put? I spent years on that, Jinn is sprung from the very dream that made me to study a big bunch of programming languages and technologies.

Altough I feel some sentiment in your response and it feel pretty honnest, I would like a more factual response instead.

From the date you decide to do Jins, how many-man hours (you and collegue have put thru). I'll put some factor to take into account previous experiences, etc...
This is just to give me an overall idea of the current value of the business and decide my bid toward the asset.

man-hours equal value? wtf.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: sv3n on September 23, 2014, 05:49:43 pm
This sounds cool.

Can you explain why didn't Intel or AMD think of this?

They did for sure. But they can't sell hardware that doesn't have software to run.
So where will this software come from?  If IBM doesn't have a market, how do you think you will? What sort of production volume are you looking at?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 23, 2014, 05:51:40 pm
How many man-hours has been put? I spent years on that, Jinn is sprung from the very dream that made me to study a big bunch of programming languages and technologies.

Altough I feel some sentiment in your response and it feel pretty honnest, I would like a more factual response instead.

From the date you decide to do Jins, how many-man hours (you and collegue have put thru). I'll put some factor to take into account previous experiences, etc...
This is just to give me an overall idea of the current value of the business and decide my bid toward the asset.

man-hours equal value? wtf.

Yes, because it is a risky project, you need to correctly evaluate the risk. An evaluation of the amount of time put up to today can be a good indication of the risk.

Just crude lower and upper bound would be correct for me. I don't want the comtability of the exact hours they did on their project...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 05:56:51 pm
Altough I feel some sentiment in your response and it feel pretty honnest, I would like a more factual response instead.

From the date you decide to do Jins, how many-man hours (you and collegue have put thru). I'll put some factor to take into account previous experiences, etc...
This is just to give me an overall idea of the current value of the business and decide my bid toward the asset.

It's hard to give a more factual response.

First of all, I can say only about myself.

Second, it's hard to assess the time spent on the project. For example, 2 years ago I was working on a MMOG project as a server programmer. Part of that project is used in Jiniri, but I can't say how big/small it is, there is no a way to measure it. Another example, a year ago I provided a back-end for a project that wasn't released because of funding issues. Part of it is also used in Jiniri. All these parts are algorithms that solve specific issues, but 0 lines of the old code will be used in Jiniri. From formal point of view I ought to say that exactly 0 (zero) hours was spent on the project.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 05:59:41 pm
So where will this software come from?  If IBM doesn't have a market, how do you think you will? What sort of production volume are you looking at?

I can answer only technical questions. Someone else from Triangle will answer your question.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: bitcoinpaul on September 23, 2014, 06:00:04 pm

man-hours equal value? wtf.

Yes, because it is a risky project, you need to correctly evaluate the risk.

this is the wrong way to evaluate, i'm pretty sure.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 06:02:49 pm
this is the wrong way to evaluate, i'm pretty sure.

Nxt was an exception that proved the rule mentioned by Sebastien256, IMO.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 23, 2014, 06:03:48 pm
Altough I feel some sentiment in your response and it feel pretty honnest, I would like a more factual response instead.

From the date you decide to do Jins, how many-man hours (you and collegue have put thru). I'll put some factor to take into account previous experiences, etc...
This is just to give me an overall idea of the current value of the business and decide my bid toward the asset.

It's hard to give a more factual response.

First of all, I can say only about myself.

Second, it's hard to assess the time spent on the project. For example, 2 years ago I was working on a MMOG project as a server programmer. Part of that project is used in Jiniri, but I can't say how big/small it is, there is no a way to measure it. Another example, a year ago I provided a back-end for a project that wasn't released because of funding issues. Part of it is also used in Jiniri. All these parts are algorithms that solve specific issues, but 0 lines of the old code will be used in Jiniri. From formal point of view I ought to say that exactly 0 (zero) hours was spent on the project.

You decide to create the Jinns project two years ago? For example, if this was all start 2 years ago, an upper bound woul be like 70 hours/weeks for you, if you dedicated 100% of your time on this. Are you working more than that  ??? :D

The idea is not to count every part that was made there and there before (if this is the case). Only count from the moment you said: I'm doing the Jinns project.

The estimation can be very crude.  I understand very well that previous experience should multiply by many factor the man-hours that I am looking for. Anyway, if you can't give me any estimate, it Ok. I won't make a scene of it... lol
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 23, 2014, 06:05:41 pm
this is the wrong way to evaluate, i'm pretty sure.

Nxt was an exception that proved the rule mentioned by Sebastien256, IMO.

Indeed, Nxt is now a way less risky than in december last year (and a lot more work have put into it since then)...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: allbits on September 23, 2014, 06:24:25 pm
watching
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: JamesList on September 23, 2014, 06:28:52 pm
Why is the quantity 1m of this asset when you are only going to sell 100k shares? Makes no sense to me
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Berry on September 23, 2014, 06:31:15 pm
Nice project. Looks very interesting. But I´have a couple of questions.

The assets you will sell are just profit sharing assets right?
You are gonna finish this thing Q4 2015 right?
So the profit will come maybe 2016?
And if you sell the whole company the asset owner will get nothing, but their assets will become worthless, except the buying company decides to give the asset owner a goodwill?

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 23, 2014, 06:32:30 pm
Quote
These 100,000 assets represents 10% of all Jinn assets and entitles the owner(s) of them to the proportionate amount of profit, which will be paid out monthly as a dividend.
Why is the quantity 1m of this asset when you are only going to sell 100k shares? Makes no sense to me
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jones on September 23, 2014, 06:33:05 pm
I look forward to attempting to program on top of this. Or attempting to anyways, will the programming be done on a form of assembly, or a higher level language.
Also a little bit confused as to the dutch auction thing, but I'm just waiting it out for a little bit to see everyone else's buy orders.
Seems cool if it works  :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: superresistant on September 23, 2014, 06:39:37 pm
 
So it is a long term project that start from zero.

Very interesting. Very unique.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 06:40:29 pm
You decide to create the Jinns project two years ago? For example, if this was all start 2 years ago, an upper bound woul be like 70 hours/weeks for you, if you dedicated 100% of your time on this. Are you working more than that  ??? :D

The idea is not to count every part that was made there and there before (if this is the case). Only count from the moment you said: I'm doing the Jinns project.

The estimation can be very crude.  I understand very well that previous experience should multiply by many factor the man-hours that I am looking for. Anyway, if you can't give me any estimate, it Ok. I won't make a scene of it... lol

We can count from the 30th of April 2014 when the name "Jinn" came to my mind - https://nxtforum.org/pub-crawl/rfc-project-'jinn'-(processor)/msg14306/#msg14306...

Or from the summer of 2012 when I wrote the ancestor of Jinn emulator (a framework called "Black Heart")...

Or from the autumn of 2010 when I rewrote server code from C to Java (for MMORPG "Apocatastasis")...

Or from the autumn of 2004 when I wrote first lines for the server part of my MMORTS (forgot its name)...

There is no a moment when I started working on Jinn. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 23, 2014, 06:41:41 pm
Ok, I understand  :D
Thanks you for the time.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 23, 2014, 06:41:47 pm
I look forward to attempting to program on top of this. Or attempting to anyways, will the programming be done on a form of assembly, or a higher level language.
Also a little bit confused as to the dutch auction thing, but I'm just waiting it out for a little bit to see everyone else's buy orders.
Seems cool if it works  :D

:)!
Here is another explanation of Dutch auction: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutchauction.asp

We are working on a language called "Abracadabra" which closely resembles JavaScript (~99% lexical similarity). 
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 06:43:29 pm
Nice project. Looks very interesting. But I´have a couple of questions.

The assets you will sell are just profit sharing assets right?
You are gonna finish this thing Q4 2015 right?
So the profit will come maybe 2016?
And if you sell the whole company the asset owner will get nothing, but their assets will become worthless, except the buying company decides to give the asset owner a goodwill?

The first profit is supposed to be generated from monetization of the proof-of-concept game.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 06:45:11 pm
I look forward to attempting to program on top of this. Or attempting to anyways, will the programming be done on a form of assembly, or a higher level language.

Programming should be similar to programming in JavaScript. But nothing prohibit others from creating compilators from other languages.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: allbits on September 23, 2014, 06:53:23 pm
Here is another explanation of Dutch auction: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutchauction.asp

"However, the price that each bidder pays is based on the lowest price of all the allotted bidders, or essentially the last successful bid. Therefore, even if you bid $100 for your 1,000 shares, if the last successful bid is $80, you will only have to pay $80 for your 1,000 shares."

So, will you be selecting the clearing price necessary for you to sell all 100,000 shares? And then you will refund nxt to those persons who bid higher than the clearing price?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 23, 2014, 06:56:38 pm
Nice project. Looks very interesting. But I´have a couple of questions.

The assets you will sell are just profit sharing assets right?
You are gonna finish this thing Q4 2015 right?
So the profit will come maybe 2016?
And if you sell the whole company the asset owner will get nothing, but their assets will become worthless, except the buying company decides to give the asset owner a goodwill?

No, profits will start with game and Jiniri Unlimited long before Jinn processor.
If any sort of acquisition or exit strategy were to be employed the asset owner will continue to get 10% profit (by contract), be offered buy back at the current value or do a 1:1 transfer to equity. We will never ever sell the company and leave asset holders hanging.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 23, 2014, 06:59:02 pm
We will never ever sell the company and leave asset holders hanging.
Well, thank for telling us. That is really recomforting.  :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: ladrillófilo on September 23, 2014, 07:24:16 pm
I just can´t buy from that Jinn asset in the asset exchange. I don´t know why, I can buy anything except Jinn. Any ideas? (I´ve also tried from the nxt wallet)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 07:30:04 pm
I just can´t buy from that Jinn asset in the asset exchange. I don´t know why, I can buy anything except Jinn. Any ideas? (I´ve also tried from the nxt wallet)

You shouldn't buy because you obviously didn't read the description (http://www.jinnlabs.com).
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 23, 2014, 07:30:39 pm
I just can´t buy from that Jinn asset in the asset exchange. I don´t know why, I can buy anything except Jinn. Any ideas? (I´ve also tried from the nxt wallet)

It sounds like you are again trying to buy without doing due diligence. Because if you did investigate and read all the available info, you'd know it's not for sale yet.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 23, 2014, 07:39:45 pm
I just can´t buy from that Jinn asset in the asset exchange. I don´t know why, I can buy anything except Jinn. Any ideas? (I´ve also tried from the nxt wallet)

It sounds like you are again trying to buy without doing due diligence. Because if you did investigate and read all the available info, you'd know it's not for sale yet.

HAHA, quote of the day +1
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: profitofthegods on September 23, 2014, 07:42:33 pm
We are working on a language called "Abracadabra" which closely resembles JavaScript (~99% lexical similarity). 

Why a javascript-esque language? Surely most distributed computing would use a lower level language?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 23, 2014, 07:44:56 pm
If any sort of acquisition or exit strategy were to be employed the asset owner will continue to get 10% profit (by contract), be offered buy back at the current value or do a 1:1 transfer to equity. We will never ever sell the company and leave asset holders hanging.

Thanks for confirming this.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 23, 2014, 07:49:15 pm
We are working on a language called "Abracadabra" which closely resembles JavaScript (~99% lexical similarity).

Should you consider a shorter name such as "Abra", Aca" or "Dabra" for easy pronunciation?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 07:49:22 pm
Why a javascript-esque language? Surely most distributed computing would use a lower level language?

JavaScript is popular and distributed computing doesn't require a low level language.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 07:51:40 pm
Should you consider a shorter name such as "Abra", Aca" or "Dabra" for easy pronunciation?

Why would I need to pronounce it?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 23, 2014, 08:00:13 pm
Should you consider a shorter name such as "Abra", Aca" or "Dabra" for easy pronunciation?
Why would I need to pronounce it?

I meant when people talk about it, a shorter name would be easier for people to speak and remember the name of the new language.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: profitofthegods on September 23, 2014, 08:09:42 pm
Why a javascript-esque language? Surely most distributed computing would use a lower level language?

JavaScript is popular and distributed computing doesn't require a low level language.

The Jinn web page specifically mentions the 'internet of things' and 'appliances and devices' as potential markets. Those things require a lower level language don't they?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 08:11:14 pm
I meant when people talk about it, a shorter name would be easier for people to speak and remember the name of the new language.

Ppl will decide themselves how to call it.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 08:12:49 pm
The Jinn web page specifically mentions the 'internet of things' and 'appliances and devices' as potential markets. Those things require a lower level language don't they?

No.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: nexern on September 23, 2014, 08:20:43 pm
very interested in distributed computing and would buy mucho devices if available.
some questions regarding the hardware:

are hardware specs available?
prototyping fpga based?
ip-core? and if, which type and do you intend to license the core?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 08:26:49 pm
very interested in distributed computing and would buy mucho devices if available.
some questions regarding the hardware:

are hardware specs available?
prototyping fpga based?
ip-core? and if, which type and do you intend to license the core?

Hardware specs will be available only after we successfully prove that concept is viable (by running the PoC game in the real-world).
Not FPGA nor IP-core, but I can't state this with 100% certainty now.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Berry on September 23, 2014, 08:34:52 pm
Nice project. Looks very interesting. But I´have a couple of questions.

The assets you will sell are just profit sharing assets right?
You are gonna finish this thing Q4 2015 right?
So the profit will come maybe 2016?
And if you sell the whole company the asset owner will get nothing, but their assets will become worthless, except the buying company decides to give the asset owner a goodwill?

No, profits will start with game and Jiniri Unlimited long before Jinn processor.
If any sort of acquisition or exit strategy were to be employed the asset owner will continue to get 10% profit (by contract), be offered buy back at the current value or do a 1:1 transfer to equity. We will never ever sell the company and leave asset holders hanging.


Alright. I´ll take your word for that.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: pf on September 23, 2014, 08:39:44 pm
How much of your own money have you put towards this project already?
or is this going to be solely funded through the AE?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: nexern on September 23, 2014, 08:46:01 pm
ok, assuming the concept is viable and you start the hardware design.
since prototyping is quite expensive do you plan to finance this by this ipo or the income from running the game?
( well, the direct question would be how much have you planned to start jinn? )

and a last one, how can i think about this cpu. something like transmeta or more than a soc controlling heavy multicores like parallella?

as said, very interested in distributed computing, so foreseeable hardware would fit perfect with my current project.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: profitofthegods on September 23, 2014, 08:51:48 pm
The Jinn web page specifically mentions the 'internet of things' and 'appliances and devices' as potential markets. Those things require a lower level language don't they?

No.

Well, I'm not exactly an expert but I have some limited experience with embedded electronics and I think that is at best a very dismissive answer. Perhaps there is some reason why this isn't relevant to the use cases you have in mind - perhaps programming the processor for some specific jobs is different from programming the device in general or something like that? That may be the case, but I do know that programming appliance and devices and the internet of things does definitely require a lower level language than Javascript.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 23, 2014, 08:56:23 pm
How much of your own money have you put towards this project already?
or is this going to be solely funded through the AE?

All members has invested tens of thousands of NXT and a few thousand USD, but most of our work is in time and effort thus far, as it will continue to be.
So yes from here on out funding from AE will go towards hiring and R&D, which is why we decided to offer this publically now. If necessary (before reaching our set milestone) we will invest more of our own funds too.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: ladrillófilo on September 23, 2014, 09:00:45 pm
I just can´t buy from that Jinn asset in the asset exchange. I don´t know why, I can buy anything except Jinn. Any ideas? (I´ve also tried from the nxt wallet)

It sounds like you are again trying to buy without doing due diligence. Because if you did investigate and read all the available info, you'd know it's not for sale yet.

Yes I read it. You can´t buy but at least you can bid, right?
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2wf3ac3.jpg)
That´s what I´m seeing at the asset exchange.
Nothing except that. It´s allright that?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 23, 2014, 09:03:40 pm
Yes I read it. You can´t buy but at least you can bid, right?

Correct.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 09:16:59 pm
ok, assuming the concept is viable and you start the hardware design.
since prototyping is quite expensive do you plan to finance this by this ipo or the income from running the game?
( well, the direct question would be how much have you planned to start jinn? )

and a last one, how can i think about this cpu. something like transmeta or more than a soc controlling heavy multicores like parallella?

as said, very interested in distributed computing, so foreseeable hardware would fit perfect with my current project.

I can't answer financial questions, here is the answer on the technical one:

Jinn is an assymetrical system. It has a lot of cores that solve tactical/local tasks and a few cores that solve strategical/global tasks. Local tasks is just number crunching, global tasks is balancing of local tasks among other processors. The ultimate goal of global tasks is to minimize latency of local tasks communication. The interesting feature of this architecture is that global tasks can be computed by small cores leading to an effect similar to fractals. Several processors can be considered as local tasks and few of them can solve balancing problems only. Such groups of processors can be grouped into bigger clusters, then into metaclusters and so forth, repeating the fractals. In the end we get a lot of processors in usual things around as (fridge, bike, pen -> Internet of Things) that behave as a classical computer when cooperate on solving the same task.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Canaanite on September 23, 2014, 09:22:48 pm
Why only 10%? how much money are you trying to raise? how did you calculate that? is that a seed round? where the product stand? do you guys have a business plan?

My concern as potential investor is that you will raise a lot of money, and when you multiply it by x10 (as 10%) you will get an unrealistic value for your project;
Plus the I really don't like the dutch auction idea - its not being friendly towards the initial investors instead of encouraging them;


For now i'll wait to see the value after the IPO and maybe join in few month after as the idea sounds interesting (checking it with some people from the industry) and the people behind it seems to be quite skilled :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 09:25:27 pm
Well, I'm not exactly an expert but I have some limited experience with embedded electronics and I think that is at best a very dismissive answer. Perhaps there is some reason why this isn't relevant to the use cases you have in mind - perhaps programming the processor for some specific jobs is different from programming the device in general or something like that? That may be the case, but I do know that programming appliance and devices and the internet of things does definitely require a lower level language than Javascript.

A compiler will translate Abracadabra into trytes that will be fed to the processor. You were writting code in assembly because the electronics manufacturer didn't bother with providing high-level language libraries.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 23, 2014, 09:46:38 pm
Why only 10%? how much money are you trying to raise? how did you calculate that? is that a seed round? where the product stand? do you guys have a business plan?

10% is chosen due to the sheer size of the project, we've done calculations on it, though there are many, many hidden variables. The straight forward way of thinking about it is that a significant portion of the remaining assets will be given to developers and hardware designers that we bring onboard. And the lock in periods is exactly there to make sure we are very calculating and methodical with the funds. We are planning on reaching the milestones in an efficient, but also controlled manner.

There will naturally be more juicy bits of info being presented over the coming weeks, but that's the nature of investment. If you are early, you take a higher risk and earn a higher reward.

Quote

My concern as potential investor is that you will raise a lot of money, and when you multiply it by x10 (as 10%) you will get an unrealistic value for your project;

We are not worried about this at all, our prospectus clearly outlines everything in regards to the assets, so the market adjusts for this already. Some will invest long term, some short term since they know supply will be limited in quite a predictable time period.
Quote

Plus the I really don't like the dutch auction idea - its not being friendly towards the initial investors instead of encouraging them;

Everyone has different opinions of the ways one does a public offering and that is fine. We firmly believe in giving everyone the same price in the initial offering in terms of fairness.

Quote
For now i'll wait to see the value after the IPO and maybe join in few month after as the idea sounds interesting (checking it with some people from the industry) and the people behind it seems to be quite skilled

Thanks for the compliment! Stick around and you'll get more and more info as the time goes by, we will be very active in updating the project both on the forum, github and our website (which will soon be up in full). Invest whenever you feel comfortable :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: nexern on September 23, 2014, 09:50:36 pm
ok, assuming the concept is viable and you start the hardware design.
since prototyping is quite expensive do you plan to finance this by this ipo or the income from running the game?
( well, the direct question would be how much have you planned to start jinn? )

and a last one, how can i think about this cpu. something like transmeta or more than a soc controlling heavy multicores like parallella?

as said, very interested in distributed computing, so foreseeable hardware would fit perfect with my current project.

I can't answer financial questions, here is the answer on the technical one:

Jinn is an assymetrical system. It has a lot of cores that solve tactical/local tasks and a few cores that solve strategical/global tasks. Local tasks is just number crunching, global tasks is balancing of local tasks among other processors. The ultimate goal of global tasks is to minimize latency of local tasks communication. The interesting feature of this architecture is that global tasks can be computed by small cores leading to an effect similar to fractals. Several processors can be considered as local tasks and few of them can solve balancing problems only. Such groups of processors can be grouped into bigger clusters, then into metaclusters and so forth, repeating the fractals. In the end we get a lot of processors in usual things around as (fridge, bike, pen -> Internet of Things) that behave as a classical computer when cooperate on solving the same task.

understood, moreover i really would like to see a scaling/adapting SOM/SOFM on this. seems to me like a natural fit for this stuff.
nonetheless an ambitious project not only due to message passing, intra core communication and latency but for sure worth to try,
no matter what comes out. the good thing here is, that this architecture basicly doesn't depends on goodwill by big companies
providing resources. it could run in small with reduced usage but scale into deep at instant rate if resources are able and by demand.
i am in. well, at least i try to get in. ok, thx for your info and good luck.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jones on September 23, 2014, 09:59:40 pm
I think having an assembly interpreter like a NASM port that could convert directly to tritecode would be useful.
Not sure how I feel about the JavaScript as a language choice, but it has the potential to be very good.
looking forward to the emulator, ill try to code some applications for it.

Also, what would it have in the way of operating systems? Would it have one built in or would one have to be created for this platform, I have a little OS experience and could lend a hand in some places.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: profitofthegods on September 23, 2014, 10:03:27 pm
Well, I'm not exactly an expert but I have some limited experience with embedded electronics and I think that is at best a very dismissive answer. Perhaps there is some reason why this isn't relevant to the use cases you have in mind - perhaps programming the processor for some specific jobs is different from programming the device in general or something like that? That may be the case, but I do know that programming appliance and devices and the internet of things does definitely require a lower level language than Javascript.

A compiler will translate Abracadabra into trytes that will be fed to the processor. You were writting code in assembly because the electronics manufacturer didn't bother with providing high-level language libraries.

No, I was dealing with code in C, and I was under the impression that this was because higher level languages can't address the hardware directly whereas lower level languages can. The fact that it is compiled rather than interpreted would make it more appropriate than JavaScript as its normally used I guess.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 23, 2014, 10:04:17 pm
I think having an assembly interpreter like a NASM port that could convert directly to tritecode would be useful.
Not sure how I feel about the JavaScript as a language choice, but it has the potential to be very good.
looking forward to the emulator, ill try to code some applications for it.

Also, what would it have in the way of operating systems? Would it have one built in or would one have to be created for this platform, I have a little OS experience and could lend a hand in some places.

It will be a distributed OS. One of the devices around will provide visualization (TVset), another will provide input of data (pen), the third one will provide storage functions (fridge, storage of data, not food).
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gvans on September 23, 2014, 10:26:53 pm
Here is another explanation of Dutch auction: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutchauction.asp

"However, the price that each bidder pays is based on the lowest price of all the allotted bidders, or essentially the last successful bid. Therefore, even if you bid $100 for your 1,000 shares, if the last successful bid is $80, you will only have to pay $80 for your 1,000 shares."

So, will you be selecting the clearing price necessary for you to sell all 100,000 shares? And then you will refund nxt to those persons who bid higher than the clearing price?

This allbits' question has not been answered yet? It's essential information whether or not every winning bid will pay the same price.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 23, 2014, 10:32:37 pm
Here is another explanation of Dutch auction: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutchauction.asp

"However, the price that each bidder pays is based on the lowest price of all the allotted bidders, or essentially the last successful bid. Therefore, even if you bid $100 for your 1,000 shares, if the last successful bid is $80, you will only have to pay $80 for your 1,000 shares."

So, will you be selecting the clearing price necessary for you to sell all 100,000 shares? And then you will refund nxt to those persons who bid higher than the clearing price?

This allbits' question has not been answered yet? It's essential information whether or not every winning bid will pay the same price.

Apologies, missed it.
Yes, every winning bid will pay the same price as is standard procedure in dutch auction.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gvans on September 23, 2014, 10:41:54 pm
Here is another explanation of Dutch auction: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutchauction.asp

"However, the price that each bidder pays is based on the lowest price of all the allotted bidders, or essentially the last successful bid. Therefore, even if you bid $100 for your 1,000 shares, if the last successful bid is $80, you will only have to pay $80 for your 1,000 shares."

So, will you be selecting the clearing price necessary for you to sell all 100,000 shares? And then you will refund nxt to those persons who bid higher than the clearing price?

This allbits' question has not been answered yet? It's essential information whether or not every winning bid will pay the same price.

Apologies, missed it.
Yes, every winning bid will pay the same price as is standard procedure in dutch auction.

Thanks. Ok. It's your call. But wouldn't this method favour heavily the prosperous nxters? Should I have 50 million nxt I could offer a 10k for a share and easily secure 5000 assets for myself without the fear of paying overprice. Hard to compete with only few thousand loose nxt in this race :-\

Btw is the minimum price set already i.e. you will execute the sell of all 100 000 assets as soon as you have the critical amount of offers over certain price? Or are you still calculating the possible price and waiting for the market to build up first?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: qqNxt on September 24, 2014, 12:15:37 am
You decide to create the Jinns project two years ago? For example, if this was all start 2 years ago, an upper bound woul be like 70 hours/weeks for you, if you dedicated 100% of your time on this. Are you working more than that  ??? :D

The idea is not to count every part that was made there and there before (if this is the case). Only count from the moment you said: I'm doing the Jinns project.

The estimation can be very crude.  I understand very well that previous experience should multiply by many factor the man-hours that I am looking for. Anyway, if you can't give me any estimate, it Ok. I won't make a scene of it... lol
We can count from the 30th of April 2014 when the name "Jinn" came to my mind - https://nxtforum.org/pub-crawl/rfc-project-'jinn'-(processor)/msg14306/#msg14306...

Or from the summer of 2012 when I wrote the ancestor of Jinn emulator (a framework called "Black Heart")...

Or from the autumn of 2010 when I rewrote server code from C to Java (for MMORPG "Apocatastasis")...

Or from the autumn of 2004 when I wrote first lines for the server part of my MMORTS (forgot its name)...

There is no a moment when I started working on Jinn. :)

i just realized cfb's mind is decentralized, he can't make up his mind.
that is why he is always leaving us confused with his ways of answer.

now imagine looking back from the year 2020, cfb praised as the inventor of jinn processor which caused perfection in artificial intelligent tech and the world is all digitized, with nxt as global reserve and global currencies are run on nxt's monetary system.

almost got an erection just then.  ;D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: martismartis on September 24, 2014, 05:53:27 am
You decide to create the Jinns project two years ago? For example, if this was all start 2 years ago, an upper bound woul be like 70 hours/weeks for you, if you dedicated 100% of your time on this. Are you working more than that  ??? :D

The idea is not to count every part that was made there and there before (if this is the case). Only count from the moment you said: I'm doing the Jinns project.

The estimation can be very crude.  I understand very well that previous experience should multiply by many factor the man-hours that I am looking for. Anyway, if you can't give me any estimate, it Ok. I won't make a scene of it... lol

We can count from the 30th of April 2014 when the name "Jinn" came to my mind - https://nxtforum.org/pub-crawl/rfc-project-'jinn'-(processor)/msg14306/#msg14306...

Or from the summer of 2012 when I wrote the ancestor of Jinn emulator (a framework called "Black Heart")...

Or from the autumn of 2010 when I rewrote server code from C to Java (for MMORPG "Apocatastasis")...

Or from the autumn of 2004 when I wrote first lines for the server part of my MMORTS (forgot its name)...

There is no a moment when I started working on Jinn. :)

CFB, I think photo of you, posted here in forum, was fake :) Or you started Jinn project in kinder garden? :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on September 24, 2014, 06:00:52 am
really funny to count how many bids are placed up to 100k :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 06:09:44 am
CFB, I think photo of you, posted here in forum, was fake :) Or you started Jinn project in kinder garden? :)

I'm 35 y.o. now, I was of age when I started Jinn. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 06:36:45 am
Answers on the questions related to Qubic that some people asked me:

- Jinn is required to solve problems that don't allow me to complete Qubic.
- I'm planning to release Qubic in ~4 years (or earlier if Jinn processors become widespread earlier).
- Qubic doesn't compete with Nxt, we will be able to transfer the whole economy (you should continue building it) from Nxt to Qubic if Monetary System idea is not rejected by the community.
- One does not simply invest into Qubic, having Jinn-powered devices (an emulator will work too) is the only requirement to be able to produce qubics. No need to give me money, there won't be an IPO/ICO/whatever.
- I'm not BCNext (almost noone believes me, I know).
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: landomata on September 24, 2014, 06:46:47 am

i just realized cfb's mind is decentralized, he can't make up his mind.
that is why he is always leaving us confused with his ways of answer.

now imagine looking back from the year 2020, cfb praised as the inventor of jinn processor which caused perfection in artificial intelligent tech and the world is all digitized, with nxt as global reserve and global currencies are run on nxt's monetary system.

almost got an erection just then.  ;D

Is Jinn the start of Skynet?

Internet of things....the Borg Collective.

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: mikesbmw on September 24, 2014, 07:17:29 am
Hi CfB,

will you make legal arrangements in your company to tie in the AE shares to real profit shares of your company or is this still based on trust?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 07:26:25 am
Hi CfB,

will you make legal arrangements in your company to tie in the AE shares to real profit shares of your company or is this still based on trust?

I can answer only technical questions. If you want to get legal protection of your "investments" then you should take into account that I reside in Belarus which is out of reach of the USA and EU laws.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Canaanite on September 24, 2014, 07:33:32 am
Hi CfB,

will you make legal arrangements in your company to tie in the AE shares to real profit shares of your company or is this still based on trust?

I can answer only technical questions. If you want to get legal protection of your "investments" then you should take into account that I reside in Belarus which is out of reach of the USA and EU laws.

It doesn't matter...
Tax purposes, actual place, contacts, Incorporated company (with limited liability) and a lot more issues...
I know it will make me feel better to invest in such entity (even if its located at Belarus)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 07:34:48 am
It doesn't matter...
Tax purposes, actual place, contacts, Incorporated company (with limited liability) and a lot more issues...
I know it will make me feel better to invest in such entity (even if its located at Belarus)

I leave this question for other members of Triangle.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: mikesbmw on September 24, 2014, 07:36:38 am
Hi CfB,

will you make legal arrangements in your company to tie in the AE shares to real profit shares of your company or is this still based on trust?

I can answer only technical questions. If you want to get legal protection of your "investments" then you should take into account that I reside in Belarus which is out of reach of the USA and EU laws.
Well that's kinda my question: how and under which law will this be done  :D Can it even be done?

I see this question and answer:
ReplyQuote #54
Quote from: Berry on September 23, 2014, 06:31:15 pm
Nice project. Looks very interesting. But I´have a couple of questions.

- And if you sell the whole company the asset owner will get nothing, but their assets will become worthless, except the buying company decides to give the asset owner a goodwill?

Answer: If any sort of acquisition or exit strategy were to be employed the asset owner will continue to get 10% profit (by contract), be offered buy back at the current value or do a 1:1 transfer to equity. We will never ever sell the company and leave asset holders hanging.


That "by contract" sounds like: done by lawyers, approved by law.

It would be PRETTY huge if you manage to find a legal means to tie in AE shares to real world shares!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 07:42:06 am
I noticed that "Risk assessment" section of the prospectus (http://www.jinnlabs.com/) didn't mention Jiniri.

Development of Jinn requires an emulator to be created (Jiniri). The emulator itself is a valuable software, because it can be used as a back-end for MMO-games or VR-worlds. This reduces financial risks.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: 2Kool4Skewl on September 24, 2014, 08:19:38 am
- Qubic doesn't compete with Nxt, we will be able to transfer the whole economy (you should continue building it) from Nxt to Qubic if Monetary System idea is not rejected by the community.
- One does not simply invest into Qubic, having Jinn-powered devices (an emulator will work too) is the only requirement to be able to produce qubics. No need to give me money, there won't be an IPO/ICO/whatever.

What exactly are Qubics?  Are they a transactional currency like NXT?  Is there going to be a set amount of Qubics and for every NXT a person has they get a Qubic?

Are the Jinn processors designed to handle forging transactions/calculations in Qubic?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 08:37:47 am
What exactly are Qubics?  Are they a transactional currency like NXT?  Is there going to be a set amount of Qubics and for every NXT a person has they get a Qubic?

Are the Jinn processors designed to handle forging transactions/calculations in Qubic?

It's hard to explain what Qubic is. Let's focus on Jinn now.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: innovator256 on September 24, 2014, 08:38:21 am
I think having an assembly interpreter like a NASM port that could convert directly to tritecode would be useful.
Not sure how I feel about the JavaScript as a language choice, but it has the potential to be very good.
looking forward to the emulator, ill try to code some applications for it.

Also, what would it have in the way of operating systems? Would it have one built in or would one have to be created for this platform, I have a little OS experience and could lend a hand in some places.

It will be a distributed OS. One of the devices around will provide visualization (TVset), another will provide input of data (pen), the third one will provide storage functions (fridge, storage of data, not food).


Very interesting project, especially the javascript parts. As you know Ibm and others are looking into fabled internet of things, I heard that they are not beyond forking projects. whats to sop them from swiping and running to the patent office with a goon of lawyers? Anybody on your team thinking defensively?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 24, 2014, 08:39:05 am
Apologies, missed it.
Yes, every winning bid will pay the same price as is standard procedure in dutch auction.

How will that work exactly?

Suppose you issue the bulk Ask order for 100k asset units @ X price when you're satisfied with the bids volume.

There are stacked Buy orders @ X, @X +1, @X + 5, etc. Those who have X + N price orders will be automatically charged only X*volume (is this how AE works?) or will they be charged the X + N price, and then you return the difference to them in manual operations?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Cryptographer on September 24, 2014, 08:41:39 am
this is the wrong way to evaluate, i'm pretty sure.

Nxt was an exception that proved the rule mentioned by Sebastien256, IMO.

Indeed, Nxt is now a way less risky than in december last year (and a lot more work have put into it since then)...

But..... 1 BTC in NXT last December would be $4.5 million now. I'll take a little risk, thanks...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 08:42:29 am
whats to sop them from swiping and running to the patent office with a goon of lawyers? Anybody on your team thinking defensively?

This is not a technical question, I can't answer it, sorry.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: innovator256 on September 24, 2014, 08:51:26 am
whats to sop them from swiping and running to the patent office with a goon of lawyers? Anybody on your team thinking defensively?

This is not a technical question, I can't answer it, sorry.

touche...I guess you guys got it covered if not, well at least yall will start to think about it.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on September 24, 2014, 08:56:22 am
Apologies, missed it.
Yes, every winning bid will pay the same price as is standard procedure in dutch auction.

How will that work exactly?

Suppose you issue the bulk Ask order for 100k asset units @ X price when you're satisfied with the bids volume.

There are stacked Buy orders @ X, @X +1, @X + 5, etc. Those who have X + N price orders will be automatically charged only X*volume (is this how AE works?) or will they be charged the X + N price, and then you return the difference to them in manual operations?

i think people who placed X+N price are charged X price and obtain the volume they asked.

(e.g if I place a bid of 10 jinn at 500 NXT and the price is decided to be 250, I obtain 10 jinn for 2500 NXT).

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: buybitcoinscanada on September 24, 2014, 09:34:14 am
A
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 24, 2014, 09:54:48 am
This post is going to be relevant, but somewhat off topic.

Noticing just now that the AE only shows a limited amount of bids/asks. While that may work fine for assets sold in a typical matter, in a Dutch Auction such as this it's actually quite important to be able to see the whole bid book as full depth is critical information when deciding at what price to place a bid. The way it displays gives the impression that there are no bids below a certain price, the bottom of which disappears as higher bids are placed. It's quite misleading to investors. To preempt anyone telling me to go to nxtreporting for full depth, that is for advanced information. Basic and critical information such as depth should be fully presented within the client, especially in such a circumstance as this. If orders out of the 50 count threshold are going to be hidden, there should be a button below the last one visible to load the whole depth. Or if it's for the purpose of eficiency, have an option for asset sale type on creation and if auction is selected, it displays the whole depth. Then only the occasional asset is putting on the extra load.

https://nxtblocks.info/#section/assets_exchange/market/3061160746493230502
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: buybitcoinscanada on September 24, 2014, 10:01:13 am
A
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 24, 2014, 10:04:09 am
To preempt anyone telling me to go to nxtreporting for full depth, that is for advanced information. Basic and critical information such as depth should be fully presented within the client, especially in such a circumstance as this.

Should've put this as a first sentence :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: chanc3r on September 24, 2014, 10:59:50 am

i think people who placed X+N price are charged X price and obtain the volume they asked.

(e.g if I place a bid of 10 jinn at 500 NXT and the price is decided to be 250, I obtain 10 jinn for 2500 NXT).

AE can be a little counter intuitive compared to other exchanges, this is how I think it works (someone please correct me I could be completely wrong about this!)

If you place a BUY at Y and the SELL order is X then

if X > Y - no sale

If X =< Y - then I think the sale takes place at Y not X (buyer beware!)

SO if you place an order for 100 at 100 and lots of other people place orders for 100 at 50...

if the seller places an order at 75 - you get yours for 10000 and the others get nothing until they rebid.
if the seller places an order at 50 - you get yours for 10000 and the others get theirs for 5000

what I don't think happens is you get your 100 at the Seller price of 50...

If the order book demand is higher than the supply then the orders are matched how.
I think its where the BUYER price is the same or higher and then in blockchain order??
So get your orders in early? but be prepared to pay the price you submit on the understanding you may overpay?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 24, 2014, 11:07:29 am
If you place a BUY at Y and the SELL order is X then

if X > Y - no sale

If X =< Y - then I think the sale takes place at Y not X (buyer beware!)

That's my understanding too. It means the asset issuer in the Dutch auction must manually compensate the difference if everyone is supposed to get the same price. But I don't see why everyone getting the same price is even important or necessary. If someone has an advantage to be the first buyer, they must pay for this privilege with a higher price.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: chanc3r on September 24, 2014, 11:18:22 am
If you place a BUY at Y and the SELL order is X then

if X > Y - no sale

If X =< Y - then I think the sale takes place at Y not X (buyer beware!)

That's my understanding too. It means the asset issuer in the Dutch auction must manually compensate the difference if everyone is supposed to get the same price. But I don't see why everyone getting the same price is even important or necessary. If someone has an advantage to be the first buyer, they must pay for this privilege with a higher price.

I agree.

I am not saying its a problem - I am trying to make sure people make 'fact full' decisions in participating so they know the consequences of the bid they choose to make and I don't see any *promise* of compensating the overbids...

I think its an interesting new use case for AE and we see how it works.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cc001 on September 24, 2014, 11:19:57 am
If you place a BUY at Y and the SELL order is X then

if X > Y - no sale

If X =< Y - then I think the sale takes place at Y not X (buyer beware!)

That's my understanding too. It means the asset issuer in the Dutch auction must manually compensate the difference if everyone is supposed to get the same price. But I don't see why everyone getting the same price is even important or necessary. If someone has an advantage to be the first buyer, they must pay for this privilege with a higher price.

Everybody pays the price he agrees is fair for him, namely his buy offer. He can offer a lower buy price, but risks to not receive any asset if his price was too low. If he wants to have that asset for sure, he has to offer a higher price.
The system would not work if everybody would pay the same lower price, because everybody would offer a very high price, to be at the top of the list, knowing they will pay only a lower price.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 24, 2014, 11:21:59 am
Everybody pays the price he agrees is fair for him, namely his buy offer. He can offer a lower buy price, but risks to not receive any asset if his price was too low. If he wants to have that asset for sure, he has to offer a higher price.
The system would not work if everybody would pay the same lower price, because everybody would offer a very high price, to be at the top of the list, knowing they will pay only a lower price.

Yes, this is logical and that's exactly what I am talking about. It's not clear where this "everybody will get the same price" comes from.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: LiQio on September 24, 2014, 11:28:17 am

Yes, this is logical and that's exactly what I am talking about. It's not clear where this "everybody will get the same price" comes from.

That's probably where it comes from:

Here is another explanation of Dutch auction: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutchauction.asp

"However, the price that each bidder pays is based on the lowest price of all the allotted bidders, or essentially the last successful bid. Therefore, even if you bid $100 for your 1,000 shares, if the last successful bid is $80, you will only have to pay $80 for your 1,000 shares."

So, will you be selecting the clearing price necessary for you to sell all 100,000 shares? And then you will refund nxt to those persons who bid higher than the clearing price?

This allbits' question has not been answered yet? It's essential information whether or not every winning bid will pay the same price.

Apologies, missed it.
Yes, every winning bid will pay the same price as is standard procedure in dutch auction.

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 24, 2014, 11:29:58 am
I guess we'll find out how it works exactly when the Ask order is issued :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: chanc3r on September 24, 2014, 11:31:34 am
Excellent - missed this so this is a commitment to adjust what bidders paid if AE transacts the match at a price higher than the seller...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 11:32:15 am
My understanding of a dutch auction powered by Asset Exchange is that everybody bids the max price they are willing to pay. After the seller places the ask order at a fixed price he refunds difference between the lowest and actual bid prices. This approach eliminates bid wars for the most of the buyers (except those whose orders are close to 100'000 threshold counting from the top bid order).
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 24, 2014, 11:33:17 am
Why are bid wars bad?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: chanc3r on September 24, 2014, 11:34:16 am
My understanding of a dutch auction powered by Asset Exchange is that everybody bids the max price they are willing to pay. After the seller places the ask order at a fixed price he refunds difference between the ask and the bid prices. This approach eliminates bid wars for the most of the buyers (except those whose orders are close to 100'000 threshold counting from the top bid order).

It just means you have the bidding war before you place the sell order assuming demand > supply in the order book of course ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 11:34:28 am
Why are bid wars bad?

It's not fair for those who don't forge blocks (they pay fees to themselves) or don't have trading bots.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 24, 2014, 11:37:05 am
Some sort of bidding war will not be avoided anyway and chances are someone will find it unfair :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cc001 on September 24, 2014, 11:39:37 am
Yes, every winning bid will pay the same price as is standard procedure in dutch auction.

Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 24, 2014, 11:41:59 am
Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?

There you go, a bidding war plan being conceived here :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 11:42:17 am
Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?

You are not satisfied that the proposed way of asset distribution is more beneficial for you than what you expected?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on September 24, 2014, 11:47:10 am
I'm very curious to see what price is triggered...

I'm going to put my guess at 33 NXT per share. I think a total valuation of 33 million NXT and a starting push of 3.3 million NXT for expenses sounds workable.

The crazy high bids in the 100's of NXT per share won't find 100,000 shares worth of investors (I don't think) - that would be a valuation of 100+ million NXT for JINN as of right now. The highest bids give a theoretical/potential valuation of 500 million NXT for JINN!!!

 

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cc001 on September 24, 2014, 11:49:05 am
Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?

You are not satisfied that the proposed way of asset distribution is more beneficial for you than what you expected?

It's not about me. I'm trying to figure out if/how that kind of auction will work. I actually like it, but I thought everybody should pay the price he offered. But we'll see (And I will think more about it...) ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: chanc3r on September 24, 2014, 11:50:11 am
Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?

There you go, a bidding war plan being conceived here :)

come on guys... the way it works is this...
once there are over 100k assets worth of bids and the BUY ladder is saturated.
the seller works down from the top of the ladder and submits a sell order at the optimum price (the dutch auction price!)
basically its a cool way for the seller to get the maximum (hopefully reasonable) initial market price to sell all the assets
rather than issuing shares at 10NXT to only see them trading at 50NXT and having missed an investment opportunity.

if there isn't enough demand the seller can still set an initial market floor for the assets by selling part way up the buy ladder.

done responsibly I do think its a way of getting more investment into the asset rather than the lucky speculators making a killing in early trading.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 24, 2014, 11:55:47 am
come on guys... the way it works is this...
once there are over 100k assets worth of bids and the BUY ladder is saturated.
the seller works down from the top of the ladder and submits a sell order at the optimum price (the dutch auction price!)
basically its a cool way for the seller to get the maximum (hopefully reasonable) initial market price to sell all the assets
rather than issuing shares at 10NXT to only see them trading at 50NXT and having missed an investment opportunity.

if there isn't enough demand the seller can still set an initial market floor for the assets by selling part way up the buy ladder.

done responsibly I do think its a way of getting more investment into the asset rather than the lucky speculators making a killing in early trading.

Yeah, that's clear. What's not clear is after the sale is over is Triangle supposed to manually return the difference to everyone or does AE return it automatically, closing the deal at the seller's price?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cc001 on September 24, 2014, 11:56:08 am
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutchauction.asp

everybody pays the same price.
Looking forward to see that on our AE!  :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 24, 2014, 12:02:52 pm
Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?

Yes. You can see that if you estimate the price will be 50 Nxt you won't bid for 10000 Nxt per share because you will only get 100 shares instead of 20000 shares as you can afford if you correctly bid for 50 Nxt.

So this will prevent a bidding war because people have to think a balance between the max shares they can get and the max possibility they can win.

Edit - this is about how you evaluate this project at this stage with consideration of all the risk and the potentials and roughly guess a price and build your bidding strategy around that price, imho.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on September 24, 2014, 12:08:35 pm
Yes, every winning bid will pay the same price as is standard procedure in dutch auction.

Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?

yes but you need enough liquidity to place the bid (1M NXT in your example).
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: marek3ball on September 24, 2014, 12:11:47 pm
As I see it, spare nxt are needed. In case I would like to buy shares for 12000 NXT then I should buy 20000 NXT where the 8000 NXT will be my insurance to get some shares and don't end up with zero.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Ludom on September 24, 2014, 12:14:21 pm
Yes, every winning bid will pay the same price as is standard procedure in dutch auction.

Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?

yes but you need enough liquidity to place the bid (1M NXT in your example).

And if a lot of bidders make the same over valued bid, you will pay a higher price. If you want to take the risk, no problem for me...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cc001 on September 24, 2014, 12:16:58 pm
Yep, I get it now.
Very interesting to see that on the Asset Exchange!
That could be a new kind of IPO for future projects.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 24, 2014, 12:38:54 pm

Thanks. Ok. It's your call. But wouldn't this method favour heavily the prosperous nxters? Should I have 50 million nxt I could offer a 10k for a share and easily secure 5000 assets for myself without the fear of paying overprice. Hard to compete with only few thousand loose nxt in this race :-\

Btw is the minimum price set already i.e. you will execute the sell of all 100 000 assets as soon as you have the critical amount of offers over certain price? Or are you still calculating the possible price and waiting for the market to build up first?

Any method will always favour the heavily prosperous, simply because they can always bid higher. But dutch auction means that your bid for small volume at a slightly higher price beats out the whale who tries to buy up everything for a slightly lower price, if there's enough volume that is.

But eventhough we want the communiy involved (and there will be other types of oppoutunities to be involved), our priority in this project is naturally to have Jinn succeed. So if some rich person wants to invest a significant sum we are not opposed to this, because it'll make it easier and faster to complete Jinn.

We do have some numbers in mind yes, but to keep the auction fair I can't reveal any "hints".
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 24, 2014, 12:46:44 pm
Hi CfB,

will you make legal arrangements in your company to tie in the AE shares to real profit shares of your company or is this still based on trust?

I can answer only technical questions. If you want to get legal protection of your "investments" then you should take into account that I reside in Belarus which is out of reach of the USA and EU laws.

It doesn't matter...
Tax purposes, actual place, contacts, Incorporated company (with limited liability) and a lot more issues...
I know it will make me feel better to invest in such entity (even if its located at Belarus)

As investors in other projects on NXT AE, we understand your concern and we're working on it.
In the last months there are several people working on the legalities of connecting the decentralized exchange to the real world. Isle of Man is on it, SRO in Switzerland is on it, Overstock is doing it, SecureAE is doing it and so on. I am in talks with these people and as soon as it is viable, the legalities will be 100% sorted.

In the meanwhile, yes, there is the element of trust. It will be incorporated ASAP and we'll keep you updated on it. If you don't feel comfortable with the level of trust, we suggest you await.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Funkylump on September 24, 2014, 01:02:51 pm
What are your plans in terms of intellectual property?

Most crypto-based projects are open-source and create their revenue through the tokens they issue. However, this enterprise aims to manufacture physical goods and earn revenue by licensing Jiniri Unlimited.

It seems this will require significant intellectual property in order to retain ownership of the technology.

Do you have any patents pending or in place? If not, any specific plans to make anything proprietary anytime soon?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 24, 2014, 01:03:33 pm
Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?

There you go, a bidding war plan being conceived here :)

come on guys... the way it works is this...
once there are over 100k assets worth of bids and the BUY ladder is saturated.
the seller works down from the top of the ladder and submits a sell order at the optimum price (the dutch auction price!)
basically its a cool way for the seller to get the maximum (hopefully reasonable) initial market price to sell all the assets
rather than issuing shares at 10NXT to only see them trading at 50NXT and having missed an investment opportunity.

if there isn't enough demand the seller can still set an initial market floor for the assets by selling part way up the buy ladder.

done responsibly I do think its a way of getting more investment into the asset rather than the lucky speculators making a killing in early trading.

This is a good summary, but we actually chose it mainly because we wanted it to be democratic and fair. As you probably know, the biggest complaint with a lot of these projects, including NXT, is the early adopter issue. Of course this is never completely out of the equation, but this way everyone gets the same price.

And yes, we're happy to spice things up a bit with a new way of doing it.

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 24, 2014, 01:06:19 pm
whats to sop them from swiping and running to the patent office with a goon of lawyers? Anybody on your team thinking defensively?

This is not a technical question, I can't answer it, sorry.

touche...I guess you guys got it covered if not, well at least yall will start to think about it.

We're definitely thinking about it and it's steps that will be taken when necessary.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 24, 2014, 01:11:48 pm
What are your plans in terms of intellectual property?

Most crypto-based projects are open-source and create their revenue through the tokens they issue. However, this enterprise aims to manufacture physical goods and earn revenue by licensing Jiniri Unlimited.

It seems this will require significant intellectual property in order to retain ownership of the technology.

Do you have any patents pending or in place? If not, any specific plans to make anything proprietary anytime soon?

Yes, Jiniri Unlimited will be licensed as a service, so this will be our intellectual property (not open source).
This is a balancing act between Jiniri being open source and allowing any developer to partake and develop for it, but while securing the business side.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: humbot on September 24, 2014, 01:24:14 pm
What are your plans in terms of intellectual property?

Most crypto-based projects are open-source and create their revenue through the tokens they issue. However, this enterprise aims to manufacture physical goods and earn revenue by licensing Jiniri Unlimited.

It seems this will require significant intellectual property in order to retain ownership of the technology.

Do you have any patents pending or in place? If not, any specific plans to make anything proprietary anytime soon?

Yes, Jiniri Unlimited will be licensed as a service, so this will be our intellectual property (not open source).
This is a balancing act between Jiniri being open source and allowing any developer to partake and develop for it, but while securing the business side.

No license file on GitHub yet. Will there be one?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TwinWinNerD on September 24, 2014, 01:27:45 pm
how does a dutch auction work on a decentralised asset exchange, where orders are always matched with the first one submitted being the price?

If there is this orderbook:

QT  PRICE
500 1000
500 500
500 250
500 100

And the seller wants to publish 1500 assets. Then he has to chose the price of 250. But when he submitts the selling order of 1500 for 250, then the first 2 order Overpay.

Please enlighten me.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: abctc on September 24, 2014, 01:32:47 pm
Please enlighten me.
-
After the seller places the ask order at a fixed price he refunds difference between the lowest and actual bid prices.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: nexern on September 24, 2014, 01:35:15 pm
I'm very curious to see what price is triggered...

I'm going to put my guess at 33 NXT per share. I think a total valuation of 33 million NXT and a starting push of 3.3 million NXT for expenses sounds workable.

The crazy high bids in the 100's of NXT per share won't find 100,000 shares worth of investors (I don't think) - that would be a valuation of 100+ million NXT for JINN as of right now. The highest bids give a theoretical/potential valuation of 500 million NXT for JINN!!!

atm the 100.000 shares would go to position 195 from total 221 bids, which is 15 NXT to absorb in full but this is changing fast of course.
you can monitor this treshold and see what price is necessary to join the party by scrolling down, until  accumulated shares meets the 100k.

http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=4000&switch=10&id=3061160746493230502&p=1
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TwinWinNerD on September 24, 2014, 01:43:53 pm
Please enlighten me.
-
After the seller places the ask order at a fixed price he refunds difference between the lowest and actual bid prices.

Well, that was fast!

Thank you.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 24, 2014, 01:46:01 pm
I'm very curious to see what price is triggered...

I'm going to put my guess at 33 NXT per share. I think a total valuation of 33 million NXT and a starting push of 3.3 million NXT for expenses sounds workable.

The crazy high bids in the 100's of NXT per share won't find 100,000 shares worth of investors (I don't think) - that would be a valuation of 100+ million NXT for JINN as of right now. The highest bids give a theoretical/potential valuation of 500 million NXT for JINN!!!

atm the 100.000 shares would go to position 195 from total 221 bids, which is 15 NXT to absorb in full but this is changing fast of course.
you can monitor this treshold and see what price is necessary to join the party by scrolling down, until  accumulated shares meets the 100k.

http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=4000&switch=10&id=3061160746493230502&p=1

if ya can get in at the right price, allot of money can be made.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: martismartis on September 24, 2014, 01:48:53 pm
Can I ask: who is Triangle (CFB, David and Wesleyh we know)?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 24, 2014, 01:49:32 pm
http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=4000&switch=10&id=3061160746493230502&p=1

Vey nice! Thanks!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 24, 2014, 01:52:59 pm
What are your plans in terms of intellectual property?

Most crypto-based projects are open-source and create their revenue through the tokens they issue. However, this enterprise aims to manufacture physical goods and earn revenue by licensing Jiniri Unlimited.

It seems this will require significant intellectual property in order to retain ownership of the technology.

Do you have any patents pending or in place? If not, any specific plans to make anything proprietary anytime soon?

Yes, Jiniri Unlimited will be licensed as a service, so this will be our intellectual property (not open source).
This is a balancing act between Jiniri being open source and allowing any developer to partake and develop for it, but while securing the business side.

No license file on GitHub yet. Will there be one?

https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond/Jiniri/blob/master/README.md

Here you go
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: humbot on September 24, 2014, 02:01:28 pm
I think I have a fairly good idea of the background and different roles of the 3 founders but your risk assessment does not mention the effect if one or more of the founders is unable to continue in their role during the early stages. Are there contingency plans in place or can you guesstimate when the project will be less dependent on founder input - after the release of the Limited, Unlimited version or?

Obviously this will not happen but.......

Thanks
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on September 24, 2014, 02:12:05 pm
Yes, exactly...

I'm just guessing that we might have room to move up to around 33 per share - I wanted to put a number out there. Maybe people have other estimates/guesses. The question is then, can the JINN team work with:

-3.3 million NXT for immediate operating costs?
-even less?
-if more, how much more?

I had already seen that the 15 NXT per share avg would eat up the entire asset, but can they team make it through with only 1.5 million NXT?


I'm very curious to see what price is triggered...

I'm going to put my guess at 33 NXT per share. I think a total valuation of 33 million NXT and a starting push of 3.3 million NXT for expenses sounds workable.

The crazy high bids in the 100's of NXT per share won't find 100,000 shares worth of investors (I don't think) - that would be a valuation of 100+ million NXT for JINN as of right now. The highest bids give a theoretical/potential valuation of 500 million NXT for JINN!!!

atm the 100.000 shares would go to position 195 from total 221 bids, which is 15 NXT to absorb in full but this is changing fast of course.
you can monitor this treshold and see what price is necessary to join the party by scrolling down, until  accumulated shares meets the 100k.

http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=4000&switch=10&id=3061160746493230502&p=1
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: nexern on September 24, 2014, 02:37:16 pm
Yes, exactly...

I'm just guessing that we might have room to move up to around 33 per share - I wanted to put a number out there. Maybe people have other estimates/guesses. The question is then, can the JINN team work with:

-3.3 million NXT for immediate operating costs?
-even less?
-if more, how much more?

I had already seen that the 15 NXT per share avg would eat up the entire asset, but can they team make it through with only 1.5 million NXT?


I'm very curious to see what price is triggered...

I'm going to put my guess at 33 NXT per share. I think a total valuation of 33 million NXT and a starting push of 3.3 million NXT for expenses sounds workable.

The crazy high bids in the 100's of NXT per share won't find 100,000 shares worth of investors (I don't think) - that would be a valuation of 100+ million NXT for JINN as of right now. The highest bids give a theoretical/potential valuation of 500 million NXT for JINN!!!

atm the 100.000 shares would go to position 195 from total 221 bids, which is 15 NXT to absorb in full but this is changing fast of course.
you can monitor this treshold and see what price is necessary to join the party by scrolling down, until  accumulated shares meets the 100k.

http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=4000&switch=10&id=3061160746493230502&p=1

i doubt it. this needs more funds than 1.5 but the auction just started and an isolated single price view isn't sufficient better take price and volume.
just watch out for some volume and accumulated share gaps, perhaps this leads to final price finding ;-)

i also try to locate the best price to get in but since everything is news driven atm and triangle doesn't provide a fixed matching date you can't do much
more than monitoring the orderbook and adjust your position close but not to close to the lower end unless you want to get wiped out.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cobaltskky on September 24, 2014, 02:43:14 pm
I put my orders in at 50. Seems reasonable, given the risk, and a lot of orders were clumping in that range at the time.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on September 24, 2014, 02:46:23 pm
C'mon guys, at current prices, a bid at 50NXT would mean something like $150k for the funding.... a little cheap for a startup who wants to make hardware dev imo.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 24, 2014, 02:56:47 pm
I think I have a fairly good idea of the background and different roles of the 3 founders but your risk assessment does not mention the effect if one or more of the founders is unable to continue in their role during the early stages. Are there contingency plans in place or can you guesstimate when the project will be less dependent on founder input - after the release of the Limited, Unlimited version or?

Obviously this will not happen but.......

Thanks

There is no denying that the project is dependent on Come-from-Beyond at this stage, but this is his "life long" project and a necessary building block for the future ventures both him and the rest of Triangle want to work on. So you can be assured that CfB wont suddenly quit. Now obviously we live in a unpredictable world where anything *could* happen. At this stage in development, a scenario where CfB was made unable to work / communicate for whatever reason, we would naturally be in a fatal situation and the funds would just be refunded.

However such a situation is extremely unlikely. We are looking into hiring people and will have more devs by the time Jiniri Limited is done so that the project will go forth without any singular point of failure.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: wert on September 24, 2014, 02:58:14 pm
so only 10% of shares is being sold?

edit: yes, found it, sry
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 03:00:00 pm
33... 50... You can't collude this way to get the tokens as cheap as possible, because you don't know the ask price. If the ask order is placed and it doesn't lead to sale of all 100'000 tokens then the market will see the price and a buyer who places a bid order earlier than the others will win. The current situation is very interesting from point of view of game theory. Longer one waits before revealing the price he wants to pay, higher odds that he will get nothing and will be forced to buy on the secondary market. On the other hand revealing the price earlier will show that demand is high and more investors may come from the outer world which in turn will drive bid orders higher...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: chanc3r on September 24, 2014, 03:04:30 pm
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53047281/the_game_is_afoot_by_art_zealot-d41w6n3.jpg)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 24, 2014, 03:07:40 pm
I'm just guessing that we might have room to move up to around 33 per share - I wanted to put a number out there. Maybe people have other estimates/guesses. The question is then, can the JINN team work with:
-3.3 million NXT for immediate operating costs?
-even less?
-if more, how much more?
I had already seen that the 15 NXT per share avg would eat up the entire asset, but can they team make it through with only 1.5 million NXT?

My guess is they are looking for somewhere between 4 and 7 million NXT.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: nexern on September 24, 2014, 03:13:07 pm
33... 50... You can't collude this way to get the tokens as cheap as possible, because you don't know the ask price. If the ask order is placed and it doesn't lead to sale of all 100'000 tokens then the market will see the price and a buyer who places a bid order earlier than the others will win. The current situation is very interesting from point of view of game theory. Longer one waits before revealing the price he wants to pay, higher odds that he will get nothing and will be forced to buy on the secondary market. On the other hand revealing the price earlier will show that demand is high and more investors may come from the outer world which in turn will drive bid orders higher...

correct but since 100.000 is the maximum triangle sells, this line marks all orders which will be out for sure if lower.
hopefully your ask is not that high and catched just the upper 1% from orderbook. you know, we all need shares ;-)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 24, 2014, 03:16:30 pm
NXT AE has its Alibaba moment every 2 weeks :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 03:20:15 pm
https://nxtforum.org/jinn/roadmap-for-developers/
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cobaltskky on September 24, 2014, 03:25:34 pm
I never suggested colluding. Simply made a statement.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 03:28:51 pm
I never suggested colluding. Simply made a statement.

Sorry, my English is not very good. I didn't know that "collude" has negative meaning, for me it was equal to "cooperate".
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Canaanite on September 24, 2014, 04:05:22 pm
Hi CfB,

will you make legal arrangements in your company to tie in the AE shares to real profit shares of your company or is this still based on trust?

I can answer only technical questions. If you want to get legal protection of your "investments" then you should take into account that I reside in Belarus which is out of reach of the USA and EU laws.

It doesn't matter...
Tax purposes, actual place, contacts, Incorporated company (with limited liability) and a lot more issues...
I know it will make me feel better to invest in such entity (even if its located at Belarus)

As investors in other projects on NXT AE, we understand your concern and we're working on it.
In the last months there are several people working on the legalities of connecting the decentralized exchange to the real world. Isle of Man is on it, SRO in Switzerland is on it, Overstock is doing it, SecureAE is doing it and so on. I am in talks with these people and as soon as it is viable, the legalities will be 100% sorted.

In the meanwhile, yes, there is the element of trust. It will be incorporated ASAP and we'll keep you updated on it. If you don't feel comfortable with the level of trust, we suggest you await.

Thanks for the answer
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on September 24, 2014, 04:17:40 pm
I was trying to collude  :P

Joking Joking...

I considered game theory in making my bids and then realized that I need to study more game theory - as I have no idea if my strategy is crap or not. Anyway, I'm hoping to get as much as I can for the amount I have in mind to spend in total - let's see what happens!

I really look forward to seeing this project develop.



I never suggested colluding. Simply made a statement.

Sorry, my English is not very good. I didn't know that "collude" has negative meaning, for me it was equal to "cooperate".
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: ThomasVeil on September 24, 2014, 05:13:36 pm
Gosh, all this maneuvering. Just put a reasonable order in. :)
If the price is lower, then you'll get your share. And if it's way higher than that, then you avoided a bad deal.
Either way, since this is a years long project there will be ample chance to buy in early.

Can't really judge the idea on the merits - though it got a awesome ring to it.
The point that I find questionable is the "We are very confident that Jinn will establish itself as a pioneer and market-­leader in this white space."
I mean, you state yourself that this well known as a huge market. Which means many players will move in with huge investments and smart people no doubt. Including as we already know IBM by using Ethereum. And this is a huge undertaking, having so many moving parts (means: Many failure points).
So from joining this race to getting out on top seems a bit the "... then magic happens..." part in this formula.

Could you maybe list what advantages you have over the better funded competition, that no one can copy - and that will put you on top?

Wish you success with this idea! Would be so damn cool if the Internet-Of-Thigns will be born out of the NXT community.

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 24, 2014, 05:20:25 pm
Bids have been stacked. Captain, fire your torpedo with the 100k payload! :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 05:48:45 pm
Could you maybe list what advantages you have over the better funded competition, that no one can copy - and that will put you on top?

Experience in the area targetted by Jinn.

Blizzard had million dollars and yet failed to create a truly real-time MMO-game. World of Warcraft becomes a slideshow when hundreds people gather in a single location.

CCP Games had million dollars and yet failed to create a truly real-time MMO-game. A battle of a few thousand spaceships requires to notify CCP in advance and even after that game time goes 10 times slower.

The problem is not simple, but money can't solve it, money can only help to find a solution faster. Anyway, we will know when IBM or another "whale" will start competing. We will, likely, get an offer to sell the project for few billion dollars before that. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on September 24, 2014, 06:25:21 pm
Could Triangle answer something:

If you DO get an offer to sell for 1 billion, the shares we hold entitle us to nothing correct? Will it be likely that the 10% profit shares that exist today CARRY THROUGH for the life of this (these) products? Or is there room for the new parent company to say "sorry" and walk away from all the early investors.

Thanks,




Could you maybe list what advantages you have over the better funded competition, that no one can copy - and that will put you on top?

Experience in the area targetted by Jinn.

Blizzard had million dollars and yet failed to create a truly real-time MMO-game. World of Warcraft becomes a slideshow when hundreds people gather in a single location.

CCP Games had million dollars and yet failed to create a truly real-time MMO-game. A battle of a few thousand spaceships requires to notify CCP in advance and even after that game time goes 10 times slower.

The problem is not simple, but money can't solve it, money can only help to find a solution faster. Anyway, we will know when IBM or another "whale" will start competing. We will, likely, get an offer to sell the project for few billion dollars before that. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 24, 2014, 06:39:04 pm
Could Triangle answer something:

If you DO get an offer to sell for 1 billion, the shares we hold entitle us to nothing correct? Will it be likely that the 10% profit shares that exist today CARRY THROUGH for the life of this (these) products? Or is there room for the new parent company to say "sorry" and walk away from all the early investors.

Thanks,




Could you maybe list what advantages you have over the better funded competition, that no one can copy - and that will put you on top?

Experience in the area targetted by Jinn.

Blizzard had million dollars and yet failed to create a truly real-time MMO-game. World of Warcraft becomes a slideshow when hundreds people gather in a single location.

CCP Games had million dollars and yet failed to create a truly real-time MMO-game. A battle of a few thousand spaceships requires to notify CCP in advance and even after that game time goes 10 times slower.

The problem is not simple, but money can't solve it, money can only help to find a solution faster. Anyway, we will know when IBM or another "whale" will start competing. We will, likely, get an offer to sell the project for few billion dollars before that. :)

i would assume that share holders would get a percentage of the proceeds from selling based on how many own
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on September 24, 2014, 06:43:17 pm
I don't think so, no.

I think these shares are purely tied to profit and do not represent a share in the company itself (what we are "buying" are NOT stock like shares). Because of this, a sale of the entire company would not be passed on to the shares being offered here to us. Legally, if in the end things become more concrete, it might be possible to argue (force) our current situation (10% of profits) on any new entity that buys out Jinn.



Could Triangle answer something:

If you DO get an offer to sell for 1 billion, the shares we hold entitle us to nothing correct? Will it be likely that the 10% profit shares that exist today CARRY THROUGH for the life of this (these) products? Or is there room for the new parent company to say "sorry" and walk away from all the early investors.

Thanks,




Could you maybe list what advantages you have over the better funded competition, that no one can copy - and that will put you on top?

Experience in the area targetted by Jinn.

Blizzard had million dollars and yet failed to create a truly real-time MMO-game. World of Warcraft becomes a slideshow when hundreds people gather in a single location.

CCP Games had million dollars and yet failed to create a truly real-time MMO-game. A battle of a few thousand spaceships requires to notify CCP in advance and even after that game time goes 10 times slower.

The problem is not simple, but money can't solve it, money can only help to find a solution faster. Anyway, we will know when IBM or another "whale" will start competing. We will, likely, get an offer to sell the project for few billion dollars before that. :)

i would assume that share holders would get a percentage of the proceeds from selling based on how many own
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: semibaron on September 24, 2014, 06:50:36 pm
I know the question came already up, but I haven't seen a proper answer to it.

Why aren't the big, well funded companies not in the position to produce processors using trits?
Have you found a solution to a fundamental problem or the entrepreneurial spirit which is necessary for such a project?

I don't know much about programming. Is an emulator https://nxtforum.org/jinn/roadmap-for-developers/ a big thing for processor
because developers don't have to write code in low-level language anymore?

A proper business plan would be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 24, 2014, 06:57:16 pm
Could Triangle answer something:
If you DO get an offer to sell for 1 billion, the shares we hold entitle us to nothing correct? Will it be likely that the 10% profit shares that exist today CARRY THROUGH for the life of this (these) products? Or is there room for the new parent company to say "sorry" and walk away from all the early investors.
Thanks,

This question has been answered - https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/(ann)-jinn/msg106363/#msg106363

Quote
If any sort of acquisition or exit strategy were to be employed the asset owner will continue to get 10% profit (by contract), be offered buy back at the current value or do a 1:1 transfer to equity. We will never ever sell the company and leave asset holders hanging.

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 07:04:55 pm
If you DO get an offer to sell for 1 billion, the shares we hold entitle us to nothing correct? Will it be likely that the 10% profit shares that exist today CARRY THROUGH for the life of this (these) products? Or is there room for the new parent company to say "sorry" and walk away from all the early investors.

Good question. I'm supposed to get part of Jinn tokens for my work. If I have 10% when Jinn is sold for 4 billion dollars then I expect to get 400 million in small notes...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 07:09:28 pm
I know the question came already up, but I haven't seen a proper answer to it.

Why aren't the big, well funded companies not in the position to produce processors using trits?
Have you found a solution to a fundamental problem or the entrepreneurial spirit which is necessary for such a project?

I don't know much about programming. Is an emulator https://nxtforum.org/jinn/roadmap-for-developers/ a big thing for processor
because developers don't have to write code in low-level language anymore?

A proper business plan would be greatly appreciated!

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/764439/why-binary-and-not-ternary-computing answers a part of your question. Intel doesn't produce ternary chips because there is no market for them, yet. We are planning to create emulator, market and hardware.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 24, 2014, 07:21:48 pm
I know the question came already up, but I haven't seen a proper answer to it.

Why aren't the big, well funded companies not in the position to produce processors using trits?
Have you found a solution to a fundamental problem or the entrepreneurial spirit which is necessary for such a project?

I don't know much about programming. Is an emulator https://nxtforum.org/jinn/roadmap-for-developers/ a big thing for processor
because developers don't have to write code in low-level language anymore?

A proper business plan would be greatly appreciated!

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/764439/why-binary-and-not-ternary-computing answers a part of your question. Intel doesn't produce ternary chips because there is no market for them, yet. We are planning to create emulator, market and hardware.
Why isn't there a market yet? Lack of technology or consumers?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Ludom on September 24, 2014, 07:24:13 pm
Cool, I want to invest a big part of my crypto-wealth in this project.

I have a question :

- Do you think it's possible that the game "Lith" could use the Jinn technology?

I'm sure that a good collaboration is possible.

I really like the Nxt community.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 07:25:25 pm
Why isn't there a market yet? Lack of technology or consumers?

Chicken-egg problem. No software - no hardware. No hardware - no software.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 07:26:26 pm
- Do you think it's possible that the game "Lith" could use the Jinn technology?

Yes.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 24, 2014, 07:28:01 pm
Cool, I want to invest a big part of my crypto-wealth in this project.

I have a question :

- Do you think it's possible that the game "Lith" could use the Jinn technology?

I'm sure that a good collaboration is possible.

I really like the Nxt community.

I (David) remember having a talk with Bas about Lith on Skype some months ago and he told me that they were experimenting with their servers, trying out some new things. I don't have any of the details, but Lith is a innovative project so I guess it could be doable in the future, but it naturally depends on their specs. You'd have to ask their team.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Arpeggio on September 24, 2014, 07:31:16 pm
Triangle, if you sell Jinn for 4 billion dollars and CFB owns 100k tokens will he receive 400 million dollars?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 24, 2014, 07:32:13 pm
Triangle, if you sell Jinn for 4 billion dollars and CFB owns 100k tokens will he receive 400 million dollars?

No, we'll give him about three fiddy.

Yes, of course he will.

And the same for the asset holders who purchase their assets via AE.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: profitofthegods on September 24, 2014, 07:36:26 pm
Just been reading the Wikipedia page on ternary computing, and it makes for quite interesting reading but also makes me curious how the hell you are going to do this.

What are you using to represent -1?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Arpeggio on September 24, 2014, 07:45:00 pm
Triangle, if you sell Jinn for 4 billion dollars and CFB owns 100k tokens will he receive 400 million dollars?

No, we'll give him about three fiddy.

Yes, of course he will.

And the same for the asset holders who purchase their assets via AE.

For realz?

okay cuz since asset holders are not equity holders there was some question as to if you ever sold Jinn would the asset holders get their percentage the way stockholders would.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on September 24, 2014, 07:49:24 pm
Ah, SO YOU DO plan on rewarding equity in the company in this?!  :o

This changes things SIGNIFICANTLY.

All we don't get is voting rights then?


Triangle, if you sell Jinn for 4 billion dollars and CFB owns 100k tokens will he receive 400 million dollars?

No, we'll give him about three fiddy.

Yes, of course he will.

And the same for the asset holders who purchase their assets via AE.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 07:50:28 pm
Just been reading the Wikipedia page on ternary computing, and it makes for quite interesting reading but also makes me curious how the hell you are going to do this.

What are you using to represent -1?

Here is an example - http://www.terna.org/enewsletter/Apr-Jun%202010/VLSI.pdf, - but it doesn't mean that we follow that route.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: profitofthegods on September 24, 2014, 08:03:44 pm
Just been reading the Wikipedia page on ternary computing, and it makes for quite interesting reading but also makes me curious how the hell you are going to do this.

What are you using to represent -1?

Here is an example - http://www.terna.org/enewsletter/Apr-Jun%202010/VLSI.pdf, - but it doesn't mean that we follow that route.

Thanks. I'm not gonna lie, that is very confusing to me. But am I right in summarizing it to say that -1 is any voltage which deviates from a certain constant?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 24, 2014, 08:09:18 pm
Why isn't there a market yet? Lack of technology or consumers?

Chicken-egg problem. No software - no hardware. No hardware - no software.

so basically your building both and in the process create a market?

btw.. you just popped you ipo cherry! ;D your on your way to being an IPO whore like james lol :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on September 24, 2014, 08:36:15 pm
Already invested all my NXT into other projects so I will probably start to sell body parts. Kidney anyone?

I might be interested, just kidding.  How can we tell what the median is for the dutch auction to have 100k shares sold successfully? (i.e. Where does our current bid need to be to get some shares?) 
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 24, 2014, 08:44:26 pm
I might be interested, just kidding.  How can we tell what the median is for the dutch auction to have 100k shares sold successfully? (i.e. Where does our current bid need to be to get some shares?)

you can see it here from the accumu shares - http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=4000&switch=10&id=3061160746493230502&p=1
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 24, 2014, 08:59:30 pm
Thanks. I'm not gonna lie, that is very confusing to me. But am I right in summarizing it to say that -1 is any voltage which deviates from a certain constant?

Something like that.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Nxter on September 24, 2014, 09:00:22 pm
Don't sell yet!! I don't have access to my wallet till Friday morning and I would like to place a bid.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on September 24, 2014, 09:07:35 pm
I might be interested, just kidding.  How can we tell what the median is for the dutch auction to have 100k shares sold successfully? (i.e. Where does our current bid need to be to get some shares?)

you can see it here from the accumu shares - http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=4000&switch=10&id=3061160746493230502&p=1

Thanks.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on September 24, 2014, 10:12:31 pm
Total valuation is already closer to an avg of +/-30,000,000 NXT now; this is pretty cool - interest is high.


I might be interested, just kidding.  How can we tell what the median is for the dutch auction to have 100k shares sold successfully? (i.e. Where does our current bid need to be to get some shares?)

you can see it here from the accumu shares - http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=4000&switch=10&id=3061160746493230502&p=1
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Windjc on September 24, 2014, 10:15:56 pm
Two basic questions:

1. how are these bids being sent?

2. Will all shares be sold at same price or will they be sold at bid prices? Right now someone is willing to pay 500 nxt per share and someone else 35 nxt per share and they would both be getting shares based on current bids.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 24, 2014, 10:26:37 pm
Two basic questions:

1. how are these bids being sent?

2. Will all shares be sold at same price or will they be sold at bid prices? Right now someone is willing to pay 500 nxt per share and someone else 35 nxt per share and they would both be getting shares based on current bids.

i think shares will be dumped, to x price and anyone who paid over the lowest price will be refunded the difference they paid. so in the end everyone pays the same but those who put their orders closer to the bottom get less refunded and more shares. like if i place a bid for 10 at 10 nxt per share, and the sells go to 10 i paid just right with zero refund and get 10 shares for 100 nxt. but if the price went down to 1 nxt. i would get my 10 shares, pay 10 nxt per share and then get refunded 90 nxt to end up with a price of 1 nxt per share.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Windjc on September 24, 2014, 10:37:07 pm
Two basic questions:

1. how are these bids being sent?

2. Will all shares be sold at same price or will they be sold at bid prices? Right now someone is willing to pay 500 nxt per share and someone else 35 nxt per share and they would both be getting shares based on current bids.

i think shares will be dumped, to x price and anyone who paid over the lowest price will be refunded the difference they paid. so in the end everyone pays the same but those who put their orders closer to the bottom get less refunded and more shares. like if i place a bid for 10 at 10 nxt per share, and the sells go to 10 i paid just right with zero refund and get 10 shares for 100 nxt. but if the price went down to 1 nxt. i would get my 10 shares, pay 10 nxt per share and then get refunded 90 nxt to end up with a price of 1 nxt per share.

Ok. Thank you.

So these bids I am seeing in the blockchain explorer - are these official bids or unofficial ones? If they are official, how to does one make a bid using the blockchain? If they are unofficial, how does one make an official bid?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TwinWinNerD on September 24, 2014, 10:42:24 pm
Two basic questions:

1. how are these bids being sent?

2. Will all shares be sold at same price or will they be sold at bid prices? Right now someone is willing to pay 500 nxt per share and someone else 35 nxt per share and they would both be getting shares based on current bids.

i think shares will be dumped, to x price and anyone who paid over the lowest price will be refunded the difference they paid. so in the end everyone pays the same but those who put their orders closer to the bottom get less refunded and more shares. like if i place a bid for 10 at 10 nxt per share, and the sells go to 10 i paid just right with zero refund and get 10 shares for 100 nxt. but if the price went down to 1 nxt. i would get my 10 shares, pay 10 nxt per share and then get refunded 90 nxt to end up with a price of 1 nxt per share.

Ok. Thank you.

So these bids I am seeing in the blockchain explorer - are these official bids or unofficial ones? If they are official, how to does one make a bid using the blockchain? If they are unofficial, how does one make an official bid?

Just go to the asset and place your bid in NXT as a buy order.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Windjc on September 24, 2014, 11:31:37 pm
Two basic questions:

1. how are these bids being sent?

2. Will all shares be sold at same price or will they be sold at bid prices? Right now someone is willing to pay 500 nxt per share and someone else 35 nxt per share and they would both be getting shares based on current bids.

i think shares will be dumped, to x price and anyone who paid over the lowest price will be refunded the difference they paid. so in the end everyone pays the same but those who put their orders closer to the bottom get less refunded and more shares. like if i place a bid for 10 at 10 nxt per share, and the sells go to 10 i paid just right with zero refund and get 10 shares for 100 nxt. but if the price went down to 1 nxt. i would get my 10 shares, pay 10 nxt per share and then get refunded 90 nxt to end up with a price of 1 nxt per share.

Ok. Thank you.

So these bids I am seeing in the blockchain explorer - are these official bids or unofficial ones? If they are official, how to does one make a bid using the blockchain? If they are unofficial, how does one make an official bid?

Just go to the asset and place your bid in NXT as a buy order.

Ok. I was confused, because apparently I can't do this on SAE as it is not showing up there yet.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 24, 2014, 11:32:45 pm
Two basic questions:

1. how are these bids being sent?

2. Will all shares be sold at same price or will they be sold at bid prices? Right now someone is willing to pay 500 nxt per share and someone else 35 nxt per share and they would both be getting shares based on current bids.

i think shares will be dumped, to x price and anyone who paid over the lowest price will be refunded the difference they paid. so in the end everyone pays the same but those who put their orders closer to the bottom get less refunded and more shares. like if i place a bid for 10 at 10 nxt per share, and the sells go to 10 i paid just right with zero refund and get 10 shares for 100 nxt. but if the price went down to 1 nxt. i would get my 10 shares, pay 10 nxt per share and then get refunded 90 nxt to end up with a price of 1 nxt per share.

Ok. Thank you.

So these bids I am seeing in the blockchain explorer - are these official bids or unofficial ones? If they are official, how to does one make a bid using the blockchain? If they are unofficial, how does one make an official bid?

Just go to the asset and place your bid in NXT as a buy order.

Ok. I was confused, because apparently I can't do this on SAE as it is not showing up there yet.
Ah that's right actually.. Yes you would need to place your order on the regular nxt client
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 25, 2014, 12:01:34 am
must be getting close to time now.. :) lowest price it would go now is 40nxt.. with a huge amount of buys places in the 40-50 range.. so that would be 4-5m nxt raised in the auction or ~150k dollars and valuing the company at 40-50m nxt or  ~1.5m dollars.. not bad i must say :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on September 25, 2014, 08:01:08 am
CfB, i see some critics on BCT that seems legit.

Could you please argue to justify why you give only 10% equity to investors (who takes a HUGE risk!) and keep 90% to founders (even if these 90% are distributed along the delivery process) ?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Evan on September 25, 2014, 09:17:06 am
CfB, i see some critics on BCT that seems legit.

Could you please argue to justify why you give only 10% equity to investors (who takes a HUGE risk!) and keep 90% to founders (even if these 90% are distributed along the delivery process) ?

Isn't that the good part of the ipo? If founders keep only a little part of the asset, they would lack the incentive to do the project, and the asset distributed along the delivery process encourages the founders not to quite halfway. I think this is the right way to issue shares in an early stage of a project.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Windjc on September 25, 2014, 09:56:33 am
CfB, i see some critics on BCT that seems legit.

Could you please argue to justify why you give only 10% equity to investors (who takes a HUGE risk!) and keep 90% to founders (even if these 90% are distributed along the delivery process) ?

Isn't that the good part of the ipo? If founders keep only a little part of the asset, they would lack the incentive to do the project, and the asset distributed along the delivery process encourages the founders not to quite halfway. I think this is the right way to issue shares in an early stage of a project.

Still, we are looking at a current valuation of $15million for a code that isn't even written yet?

Is that a good investment? I think it is open to debate for sure.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 25, 2014, 10:07:28 am
CfB, i see some critics on BCT that seems legit.

Could you please argue to justify why you give only 10% equity to investors (who takes a HUGE risk!) and keep 90% to founders (even if these 90% are distributed along the delivery process) ?

I can't, I answer only technical questions. We have to wait when someone else from Triangle comes online.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Evan on September 25, 2014, 10:16:58 am
Isn't that the good part of the ipo? If founders keep only a little part of the asset, they would lack the incentive to do the project, and the asset distributed along the delivery process encourages the founders not to quite halfway. I think this is the right way to issue shares in an early stage of a project.

Still, we are looking at a current valuation of $15million for a code that isn't even written yet?

Is that a good investment? I think it is open to debate for sure.

No problem with that, I did not comment on the valuation or risk of the project. I just stated that it's the right way to issue the shares, which should be followed by other share issuers. In fact, I have had this in my mind for some time about the assets on Nxt AE. If founders sell most of the shares on early stages of a project, they would have more incentive to abandon the project than finish it, which is not good to investors.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Daedelus on September 25, 2014, 10:24:44 am
Just to make sure everyone following this is aware, there is the technical development discussion for Jinn here >>>> https://nxtforum.org/pub-crawl/rfc-project-'jinn'-(processor)


@Cfb, relating to our chat and your comments here...

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/nxt-pub-thread-2500-pages-on-nxtforum-org-or-bust/1060...

... do you still have plans to re-write the Nxt Core in the Jinn language?


(Jinn forging 1000tps on smartphones FTW!)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 25, 2014, 10:33:14 am
Just to make sure everyone following this is aware, there is the technical development discussion for Jinn here >>>> https://nxtforum.org/pub-crawl/rfc-project-'jinn'-(processor)


@Cfb, relating to our chat and your comments here...

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/nxt-pub-thread-2500-pages-on-nxtforum-org-or-bust/1060...

... do you still have plans to re-write the Nxt Core in the Jinn language?


(Jinn forging 1000tps on smartphones FTW!)

I believe that Nxt will become the most popular cryptoplatform and rewriting Nxt core for Jinn will let to increase popularity of Jinn.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 25, 2014, 10:47:22 am
Just to make sure everyone following this is aware, there is the technical development discussion for Jinn here >>>> https://nxtforum.org/pub-crawl/rfc-project-'jinn'-(processor)


@Cfb, relating to our chat and your comments here...

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/nxt-pub-thread-2500-pages-on-nxtforum-org-or-bust/1060...

... do you still have plans to re-write the Nxt Core in the Jinn language?


(Jinn forging 1000tps on smartphones FTW!)

I believe that Nxt will become the most popular cryptoplatform and rewriting Nxt core for Jinn will let to increase popularity of Jinn.
You mean you can do that? Holy crap lol I didn't know you could rewrite the code in a different language and keep the same blockchain :o not even going to ask how that would work lol
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 25, 2014, 10:52:45 am
You mean you can do that? Holy crap lol I didn't know you could rewrite the code in a different language and keep the same blockchain :o not even going to ask how that would work lol

Blockchain technology is naturally supported by Jinn. A useful side-effect of Jinn architecture is that several devices can share the same copy of a blockchain, reducing requirements for capacity of storage devices.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 25, 2014, 11:00:52 am
You mean you can do that? Holy crap lol I didn't know you could rewrite the code in a different language and keep the same blockchain :o not even going to ask how that would work lol

Blockchain technology is naturally supported by Jinn. A useful side-effect of Jinn architecture is that several devices can share the same copy of a blockchain, reducing requirements for capacity of storage devices.

im not sure i understand how that would work? would one device connect to a remote nrs on another device or do you mean the block chain would literally be shared among them ie. 3 phones get a section of the blockchain each and then pull information from each other or something?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rlh on September 25, 2014, 11:07:31 am
Didn't realize this was here, since I was following the old post.

Following... Reading...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 25, 2014, 11:16:43 am
im not sure i understand how that would work? would one device connect to a remote nrs on another device or do you mean the block chain would literally be shared among them ie. 3 phones get a section of the blockchain each and then pull information from each other or something?

The latter.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 25, 2014, 11:31:07 am
im not sure i understand how that would work? would one device connect to a remote nrs on another device or do you mean the block chain would literally be shared among them ie. 3 phones get a section of the blockchain each and then pull information from each other or something?

The latter.

interesting.. could this be expanded to a point where the blockchain is share between hundreds of phones so the more phones that become part of the sharing network, the less each phone has to store?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 25, 2014, 11:33:38 am
interesting.. could this be expanded to a point where the blockchain is share between hundreds of phones so the more phones that become part of the sharing network, the less each phone has to store?

Yes.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Daedelus on September 25, 2014, 11:34:00 am
Valuations for things like this are notoriously difficult. But here is my attempt  ;D

Assumption 1: IoT market prediction that at end of 2020 it will be worth $7.1 Trillion dollars.

Assumption 2: Assume Jinn will capture 1000th of 1% of this market. Jinn Company revenue will be $71 million for 2020.

Assumption 3: Assume profit margin is 15%. Profit per share in 2020 will be $10.65.

Assumption 4: Profit growth will follow the this pattern (the more earning you push into the future, the more conservative)

End 2015: 0% of $10.65 delivered in this period = $0
End 2016: 8% of $10.65 delivered in this period = $0.53
End 2017: 15% of $10.65 delivered in this period = $1.07
End 2018: 33% of $10.65 delivered in this period = $2.66
End 2019: 66% of $10.65 delivered in this period = $5.33
End 2020: 100% of $10.65 delivered in this period = $10.65

Assumption 5: Assume discount rate is 7% (you put the money is shares and you happen to get an average long term return). Discounted cash flows for the above future income sum up to a present value of $16.84 per Jinn asset.

Assumption 6: Assume chance of success of Jinn is 20%. This gives a fair value today of $3.37 per asset. Or 109 NXT.

I told you it was hard  :D Tweaking some of the 11 assumptions above... I would suggest that the fair value is between 46 and 2452 NXT per asset.

You're welcome  ;D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 25, 2014, 11:34:32 am
interesting.. could this be expanded to a point where the blockchain is share between hundreds of phones so the more phones that become part of the sharing network, the less each phone has to store?

Yes.

cool :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Daedelus on September 25, 2014, 11:35:58 am
interesting.. could this be expanded to a point where the blockchain is share between hundreds of phones so the more phones that become part of the sharing network, the less each phone has to store?

Yes.

Will this make AT transactions trivial to process for all nodes (as well as 1000tps)? Even Raspberry PI?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: curve25519 on September 25, 2014, 11:37:50 am
BCT link please? very interesting project!... but I think the outcome (of project and ipo) is going to be binary, not ternary.
Biggest breakthrough or biggest scam. Dunno which yet  ???

CfB, i see some critics on BCT that seems legit.

Could you please argue to justify why you give only 10% equity to investors (who takes a HUGE risk!) and keep 90% to founders (even if these 90% are distributed along the delivery process) ?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 25, 2014, 11:40:46 am
Will this make AT transactions trivial to process for all nodes (as well as 1000tps)? Even Raspberry PI?

It's hard to say, I don't know AT well enough to asnwer the question.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on September 25, 2014, 11:40:58 am
BCT link please? very interesting project!... but I think the outcome (of project and ipo) is going to be binary, not ternary.
Biggest breakthrough or biggest scam. Dunno which yet  ???

CfB, i see some critics on BCT that seems legit.

Could you please argue to justify why you give only 10% equity to investors (who takes a HUGE risk!) and keep 90% to founders (even if these 90% are distributed along the delivery process) ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=796304.0

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 25, 2014, 11:42:16 am
BCT link please? very interesting project!... but I think the outcome (of project and ipo) is going to be binary, not ternary.
Biggest breakthrough or biggest scam. Dunno which yet  ???

Ternary is still possible if only part of the goals are reached. You forget that Jiniri itself will be a useable product.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: valarmg on September 25, 2014, 12:04:43 pm
Just been reading the Wikipedia page on ternary computing, and it makes for quite interesting reading but also makes me curious how the hell you are going to do this.

What are you using to represent -1?

Here is an example - http://www.terna.org/enewsletter/Apr-Jun%202010/VLSI.pdf, - but it doesn't mean that we follow that route.

Those gates look like pretty horrible solutions if I understand them correctly. Run off +/- 5V supplies. Full Adder power consumption in the milliWatts. 10uWatts for an invertor and no mention of the speed it can run. Looks like CMOS from the 1980s.

Am I understanding this correctly that you are going to design and build ternary CMOS logic gates and build a full ternary processor from them? That can't be right, designing new CMOS is horribly expensive and takes years. Then to get them to compete with binary processors in terms of size and power and speed they'd have to be on the newest processes. I find it hard to see how anyone except a company like Intel would have the resources to develop something like this.

Or can you build the ternary logic on FPGAs?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: curve25519 on September 25, 2014, 12:13:17 pm
Assumption 4: Profit growth will follow the this pattern (the more earning you push into the future, the more conservative)
IMO, project like this, cash flow projection is more important that profit projection at this time.

I would argue that he delivered more than James...
I agree and trust CfB based on what he has delivered. he is only technical person here. website and forum do not give info of any other technical team. Who is Triangle? Wesley is doing gui only, so who are the hardware experts for this project? If most of 90% is for team of hardware and software engineers, more confident. Now, all go to management team!?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 25, 2014, 12:50:46 pm
Those gates look like pretty horrible solutions if I understand them correctly. Run off +/- 5V supplies. Full Adder power consumption in the milliWatts. 10uWatts for an invertor and no mention of the speed it can run. Looks like CMOS from the 1980s.

Am I understanding this correctly that you are going to design and build ternary CMOS logic gates and build a full ternary processor from them? That can't be right, designing new CMOS is horribly expensive and takes years. Then to get them to compete with binary processors in terms of size and power and speed they'd have to be on the newest processes. I find it hard to see how anyone except a company like Intel would have the resources to develop something like this.

Or can you build the ternary logic on FPGAs?

We are not going to use exactly that technology, my knowledge of integrated circuits is outdated for 15 years and we will hire specialists who know modern technologies. We could create ternary Jinn right now using already available equipment with binary gates (e.g. FPGAs), it's as easy as implementing corresponding truth tables and solving timing issues. But we are aiming a greater goal.

As an investor you should understand that the biggest utility of Jinn will come at the earliest stage - Jiniri Unlimited. This will create a whole market, think about it as about Android, companies prefer to use already existing technologies for their products (smartphones, tables, etc.). The next stage - hardware Jinn - will increase potential of the newly created market. The latest stage - hardware Jinn built on truly ternary elements (more likely it will be optical technology) - will push the price of every Jinn token above 1000 USD for sure (I could eat your hat if it didn't, hehe).
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Daedelus on September 25, 2014, 01:08:42 pm
I know the Dutch Auction will end when you have reach a number you have in your heads.

I was wondering if you also had a minimum time period in mind? Do you have a strategy to deal with the "Whah, whah! IPO was too short, bad distribution SCAMSCAMSCAM! whah whah whah!" comments 3-4 months after Jinn is sold and been trading?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on September 25, 2014, 01:11:32 pm
He can't answer, he just give technical comments.

Oh wait...

Quote
The next stage - hardware Jinn - will increase potential of the newly created market. The latest stage - hardware Jinn built on truly ternary elements (more likely it will be optical technology) - will push the price of every Jinn token above 1000 USD for sure (I could eat your hat if it didn't, hehe).

 ;D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 25, 2014, 01:13:16 pm
I know the Dutch Auction will end when you have reach a number you have in your heads.

I was wondering if you also had a minimum time period in mind? Do you have a strategy to deal with the "Whah, whah! IPO was too short, bad distribution SCAMSCAMSCAM! whah whah whah!" comments 3-4 months after Jinn is sold and been trading?

there were plenty of other ipo's in nxt assets that were very short and no one complained.. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 25, 2014, 01:16:42 pm
I know the Dutch Auction will end when you have reach a number you have in your heads.

I was wondering if you also had a minimum time period in mind? Do you have a strategy to deal with the "Whah, whah! IPO was too short, bad distribution SCAMSCAMSCAM! whah whah whah!" comments 3-4 months after Jinn is sold and been trading?

I can't answer this question. But it seems to me that majority wants this to happen rather sooner than later, and I don't understand why. Read more about ternary computing, monitor progress done on https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond/Jiniri, search for competing projects on the Internet. More time pass - a better decision you will make.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: chanc3r on September 25, 2014, 01:20:01 pm
An apparently discontinued project but an interesting read about this...
Brings up some interesting use cases and indicates that H/W of this type would provide some interesting capabilities over traditional binary decision making.

http://tunguska.sourceforge.net
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: LiQio on September 25, 2014, 01:30:09 pm

I can't answer this question. But it seems to me that majority wants this to happen rather sooner than later, and I don't understand why. Read more about ternary computing, monitor progress done on https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond/Jiniri, search for competing projects on the Internet. More time pass - a better decision you will make.

It's induced by the following quote "This type of auction is convenient when it is important to auction goods quickly".
(Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_auction which was referenced in the OP of this thread)
 ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on September 25, 2014, 02:00:25 pm
Edit: it is okay
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on September 25, 2014, 02:06:39 pm
Edit: It is okay
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: LiQio on September 25, 2014, 02:18:18 pm
I can't find the asset in the NXT AE.  Am I looking in the wrong place?  What is the name and account number again?  When I try to use the one on the first page, I can't find anything.

If I remember correctly someone mentioned that it cannot be found here https://trade.secureae.com - you have to use the local client.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on September 25, 2014, 02:50:37 pm
Bids already exceeding 50Nxt, wow, time to close?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 25, 2014, 02:59:01 pm
Bids already exceeding 50Nxt, wow, time to close?

it hit there a while back, last night i think.. dont think its going to go much higher..  would be perfect timing i think..

cfb? ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on September 25, 2014, 03:06:23 pm
Lots of big players with big money.  I put my bids in at 40, but now I realize there is probably over 100,000 orders already above that.  Wish I was rich!!! I would definitely bid more.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 25, 2014, 03:09:51 pm
Lots of big players with big money.  I put my bids in at 40, but now I realize there is probably over 100,000 orders already above that.  Wish I was rich!!! I would definitely bid more.

to low.. look here at accumilated shares to see how low a sell order of 100k shares would take it. http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=4000&switch=10&id=3061160746493230502&p=1
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on September 25, 2014, 03:13:58 pm
Lots of big players with big money.  I put my bids in at 40, but now I realize there is probably over 100,000 orders already above that.  Wish I was rich!!! I would definitely bid more.

to low.. look here at accumilated shares to see how low a sell order of 100k shares would take it. http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=4000&switch=10&id=3061160746493230502&p=1

Hi Forrest, that was a very useful link.  Thank you!  And yes, I bid too low.  hahaha

I went ahead and canceled my bid :-(

I made another one that is higher and above the threshold but not nearly as many shares. 
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TheWireMaster on September 25, 2014, 03:17:42 pm
I have a bid in, but this sounds like good stuff need to place another bid later! :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 25, 2014, 03:21:09 pm
it hit there a while back, last night i think.. dont think its going to go much higher..  would be perfect timing i think..

cfb? ;)

I don't decide such things. I prefer to stay away of questions that I don't understand.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on September 25, 2014, 03:21:21 pm
Yeah, I've already been priced out, I had mine at 50 and thought that I was safe, but it's encouraging to see this much interest.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 25, 2014, 03:24:58 pm
Yeah, I've already been priced out, I had mine at 50 and thought that I was safe, but it's encouraging to see this much interest.
What's it at now? I can't check..

@jabo it's important to note that you will be refunded any amount you pay over the lowest bid.. So everyone pays the same but the further off the lowest mark you are the fewer coins you get.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on September 25, 2014, 03:26:35 pm
WARNING

Someone just issued another "Jinn" Asset, make sure you are bidding on the right one.

3061160746493230502
NXT-Q4N3-V2QJ-S3GT-FW4Z9
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 25, 2014, 03:28:28 pm
What's it at now? I can't check..

@51 now.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on September 25, 2014, 03:32:59 pm
it hit there a while back, last night i think.. dont think its going to go much higher..  would be perfect timing i think..

cfb? ;)

I don't decide such things. I prefer to stay away of questions that I don't understand.

That's what I'm afraid of, if CFB isn't in charge of this, then it can go much higher because we don't know the money motivation of Triangle.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on September 25, 2014, 03:35:21 pm
It is up to about 158,000 USD right now raised for the top 100,000

That is 10% of the company, so basically 1.5 million for a company that is doing a partial IPO before even really have any product, just some ideas.

There is a ton of faith in CfB right here.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 25, 2014, 03:36:24 pm
it hit there a while back, last night i think.. dont think its going to go much higher..  would be perfect timing i think..

cfb? ;)

I don't decide such things. I prefer to stay away of questions that I don't understand.

That's what I'm afraid of, if CFB isn't in charge of this, then it can go much higher because we don't know the money motivation of Triangle.

+1.. on the other hand perhaps its a good thing cfb isnt in control of financial aspects of the company.. it could turn into a not-for-profit organization lol its both good and bad imo. what worries me is that "triangle" i dont think has ever been seen in these forums before. what history do you have with him cfb? what has cause him to gain your trust enough to control the financial aspects of the company?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on September 25, 2014, 03:41:33 pm
+1.. on the other hand perhaps its a good thing cfb isnt in control of financial aspects of the company.. it could turn into a not-for-profit organization lol its both good and bad imo. what worries me is that "triangle" i dont think has ever been seen in these forums before. what history do you have with him cfb? what has cause him to gain your trust enough to control the financial aspects of the company?

Haha, yes, true.  I meant just the bidding process, I know CFB is not a financial guy.  I do know he is fair and not money motivated.  At this point I'm not sure we'll see early adopter advantages, I may just wait to buy in secondary market.  I think Triangle is a well known member here but just posting under a new name for this purpose, I would say by this posts that he is a US or UK citizen.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 25, 2014, 03:46:14 pm
+1.. on the other hand perhaps its a good thing cfb isnt in control of financial aspects of the company.. it could turn into a not-for-profit organization lol its both good and bad imo. what worries me is that "triangle" i dont think has ever been seen in these forums before. what history do you have with him cfb? what has cause him to gain your trust enough to control the financial aspects of the company?

It's David, I know how to find him should a necessity arise. Also, I put into this only money that I can afford to lose. Of course, I put a lot of my time too, but I have to take this risk.

PS: When Phasing is released we will use it to remove the control of the funds from a single person.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 25, 2014, 03:52:52 pm
+1.. on the other hand perhaps its a good thing cfb isnt in control of financial aspects of the company.. it could turn into a not-for-profit organization lol its both good and bad imo. what worries me is that "triangle" i dont think has ever been seen in these forums before. what history do you have with him cfb? what has cause him to gain your trust enough to control the financial aspects of the company?

Haha, yes, true.  I meant just the bidding process, I know CFB is not a financial guy.  I do know he is fair and not money motivated.  At this point I'm not sure we'll see early adopter advantages, I may just wait to buy in secondary market.  I think Triangle is a well known member here but just posting under a new name for this purpose, I would say by this posts that he is a US or UK citizen.

i just remember cfb declining his nemstake and it being said that money does not motivate him so perhaps he just wants to game harder and is only making jinn so he can play call of duty in mega HD hyper speed mode with 40 screens.. lol im not sure why there would not be early adopter advantage.. as it stands there are 11m+ in bids and less than half that will actually be used to pay for assets so i would assume 5-6m nxt buying power would remain that could potentially be used to purchase remaining shares on secondary market.. and with the build up of bids there is going to be immense bid support once trading starts. this sounds like instant profit to me.. :) plus how many markets have built up 11+m in bids in a day or two.. dont thing iv seen that on any asset. whales are in on this big time.

threashold up to 55... :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on September 25, 2014, 04:04:04 pm
i just remember cfb declining his nemstake and it being said that money does not motivate him so perhaps he just wants to game harder and is only making jinn so he can play call of duty in mega HD hyper speed mode with 40 screens.. lol im not sure why there would not be early adopter advantage.. as it stands there are 11m+ in bids and less than half that will actually be used to pay for assets so i would assume 5-6m nxt buying power would remain that could potentially be used to purchase remaining shares on secondary market.. and with the build up of bids there is going to be immense bid support once trading starts. this sounds like instant profit to me.. :) plus how many markets have built up 11+m in bids in a day or two.. dont thing iv seen that on any asset. whales are in on this big time.

threashold up to 55... :)

Yes, definitely some truth to that, but I think there are a lot of speculation bids, many of which will disappear once Asset is active.  Regardless, I really like to see this Dutch Auction model on AE!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 25, 2014, 04:12:26 pm
it hit there a while back, last night i think.. dont think its going to go much higher..  would be perfect timing i think..

cfb? ;)

I don't decide such things. I prefer to stay away of questions that I don't understand.

That's what I'm afraid of, if CFB isn't in charge of this, then it can go much higher because we don't know the money motivation of Triangle.

+1.. on the other hand perhaps its a good thing cfb isnt in control of financial aspects of the company.. it could turn into a not-for-profit organization lol its both good and bad imo. what worries me is that "triangle" i dont think has ever been seen in these forums before. what history do you have with him cfb? what has cause him to gain your trust enough to control the financial aspects of the company?

I can assure everyone that our only motivation is to get Jinn released and benefit all asset holders in the future. If we raised too little now and ran out of capital, everyone would just lose their nxt, which is obviously not something anyone wants. The selling price is based on our calculations of what it will cost to meet the milestones in order to ensure that the project is bootstrapped and evolves efficiently on schedule.

Also be assured that everyone in Triangle is in agreement of the selling price, so the decision is made after careful considerations and complete agreement by everyone involved :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 25, 2014, 04:18:53 pm


I can assure everyone that our only motivation is to get Jinn released and benefit all asset holders in the future. If we raised too little now and ran out of capital, everyone would just lose their nxt, which is obviously not something anyone wants. The selling price is based on our calculations of what it will cost to meet the milestones in order to ensure that the project is bootstrapped and evolves efficiently on schedule.

Also be assured that everyone in Triangle is in agreement of the selling price, so the decision is made after careful considerations and complete agreement by everyone involved :)

thank you very much. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on September 25, 2014, 04:20:00 pm
it hit there a while back, last night i think.. dont think its going to go much higher..  would be perfect timing i think..

cfb? ;)

I don't decide such things. I prefer to stay away of questions that I don't understand.

That's what I'm afraid of, if CFB isn't in charge of this, then it can go much higher because we don't know the money motivation of Triangle.

+1.. on the other hand perhaps its a good thing cfb isnt in control of financial aspects of the company.. it could turn into a not-for-profit organization lol its both good and bad imo. what worries me is that "triangle" i dont think has ever been seen in these forums before. what history do you have with him cfb? what has cause him to gain your trust enough to control the financial aspects of the company?

I can assure everyone that our only motivation is to get Jinn released and benefit all asset holders in the future. If we raised too little now and ran out of capital, everyone would just lose their nxt, which is obviously not something anyone wants. The selling price is based on our calculations of what it will cost to meet the milestones in order to ensure that the project is bootstrapped and evolves efficiently on schedule.

Also be assured that everyone in Triangle is in agreement of the selling price, so the decision is made after careful considerations and complete agreement by everyone involved :)

That's great and all, but you are only giving up 10%, which is small, and so there should be some advantages for people bidding here independent of what you "need" to bootstrap.  Since you have a specific # in mind, why not just tell everyone what the # is and sell the asset for that price?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 25, 2014, 04:22:00 pm
it hit there a while back, last night i think.. dont think its going to go much higher..  would be perfect timing i think..

cfb? ;)

I don't decide such things. I prefer to stay away of questions that I don't understand.

That's what I'm afraid of, if CFB isn't in charge of this, then it can go much higher because we don't know the money motivation of Triangle.

+1.. on the other hand perhaps its a good thing cfb isnt in control of financial aspects of the company.. it could turn into a not-for-profit organization lol its both good and bad imo. what worries me is that "triangle" i dont think has ever been seen in these forums before. what history do you have with him cfb? what has cause him to gain your trust enough to control the financial aspects of the company?

I can assure everyone that our only motivation is to get Jinn released and benefit all asset holders in the future. If we raised too little now and ran out of capital, everyone would just lose their nxt, which is obviously not something anyone wants. The selling price is based on our calculations of what it will cost to meet the milestones in order to ensure that the project is bootstrapped and evolves efficiently on schedule.

Also be assured that everyone in Triangle is in agreement of the selling price, so the decision is made after careful considerations and complete agreement by everyone involved :)

That's great and all, but you are only giving up 10%, which is small, and so there should be some advantages for people bidding here independent of what you "need" to bootstrap.  Since you have a specific # in mind, why not just tell everyone what the # is and sell the asset for that price?

+1.. if its much above where it is now, then imo that would be over valuing it somewhat considering the risk the investors are taking..
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: buybitcoinscanada on September 25, 2014, 04:33:58 pm
A
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 25, 2014, 04:34:33 pm
That's great and all, but you are only giving up 10%, which is small, and so there should be some advantages for people bidding here independent of what you "need" to bootstrap.  Since you have a specific # in mind, why not just tell everyone what the # is and sell the asset for that price?

If so, you will not pay as much attention to it as you do now and buzz will be much smaller and small fish may not have much chance to buy. ;D

And it is not a bad way to do the first promotion.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on September 25, 2014, 04:51:14 pm
That's great and all, but you are only giving up 10%, which is small, and so there should be some advantages for people bidding here independent of what you "need" to bootstrap.  Since you have a specific # in mind, why not just tell everyone what the # is and sell the asset for that price?

If so, you will not pay as much attention to it as you do now and buzz will be much smaller and small fish may not have much chance to buy. ;D

And it is not a bad way to do the first promotion.

Yes, I agree, I don't mean to be negative, but I also think that many people are already priced out.  Anyway, it's a good use of AE and an interesting model for IPO. 
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: bitme on September 25, 2014, 04:56:26 pm
WARNING

Someone just issued another "Jinn" Asset, make sure you are bidding on the right one.

3061160746493230502
NXT-Q4N3-V2QJ-S3GT-FW4Z9

i forged block with fake Jinn.+1000 NXT for me, -1000 for the scammer. Hope that's all he gets;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: nexern on September 25, 2014, 04:58:35 pm
even if most of you know it but just to be clear regarding the bid ladder.

the bid ladder doesn't indicate any price, because triangle hasn't announced
any ask range nor they are bounded to place the 100k shares in full in any case.

however, while this view was original built to get a quick overview for partial fillings
and a feeling for liquidity, it is usefull as an orientation to locate a threshold/floor price
in case triangle decide to place the maximum 100k shares because they are
satisfied by the amount in total at this price level but they could even set a much higher
ask and sell the remaining shares at the secondary market.

i use it just to watch this theoretical floor price rising (interest measure) and to estimate a
well balanced bid within major price/volume distribution but not more.

said that just to prevent dissapointments by new investors thinking a bid just over floor means
they are in for sure, which isn't the case, if i interpret this dutch auction correctly.

(btw. this reminds me to add a disclaimer to the explorer, you never know ;-)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Pilot on September 25, 2014, 05:01:39 pm
Yes, every winning bid will pay the same price as is standard procedure in dutch auction.

Really?? So, if I put a buy order for 100 shares at 10000 NXT each I'm very sure to receive my 100 shares (because I am at the top of the list), but I will get them for maybe only 50 NXT each?? That does not make sense to me, or did I get something wrong?


In a dutch auction you NEVER pay MORE than you bid, but you might pay less.

Easy, peasy.

The AE won't execute this way though, if someone puts an Ask in an there are higher bids, I'm pretty sure the AE will clear the Ask at the higher bid price. (I could be wrong though).
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 25, 2014, 05:07:23 pm
The AE won't execute this way though, if someone puts an Ask in an there are higher bids, I'm pretty sure the AE will clear the Ask at the higher bid price. (I could be wrong though).

They will refund your surplus back to you later.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: 2Kool4Skewl on September 25, 2014, 05:12:18 pm
Ok, so, CfB is behind the technical innovation and programming.  What are uniqueorn and wesleyh roles?

What is the internal company share split between the founders?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 25, 2014, 05:15:20 pm
Yes, I agree, I don't mean to be negative, but I also think that many people are already priced out.  Anyway, it's a good use of AE and an interesting model for IPO.

Your point has some insight as well. If this auction takes too long time people will become impatient and resent, which is not good for the promotion.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Pilot on September 25, 2014, 05:20:10 pm
Triangle, if you sell Jinn for 4 billion dollars and CFB owns 100k tokens will he receive 400 million dollars?

No, we'll give him about three fiddy.

Yes, of course he will.

And the same for the asset holders who purchase their assets via AE.

But you said the assets are not an equity share.

So, it sounds like these are like a preferred stock share of the company. No voting rights, dividend based on profits and equity share. Which means, if someone buys the company, they must buy out the preferred stock holders.

Is that not correct?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on September 25, 2014, 05:54:14 pm
Ok, so, CfB is behind the technical innovation and programming.  What are uniqueorn and wesleyh roles?

What is the internal company share split between the founders?

Didn't know uniqueorn or wesleyh were involved, was a list of founders listed somewhere?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 25, 2014, 05:55:31 pm
Triangle, if you sell Jinn for 4 billion dollars and CFB owns 100k tokens will he receive 400 million dollars?

No, we'll give him about three fiddy.

Yes, of course he will.

And the same for the asset holders who purchase their assets via AE.

But you said the assets are not an equity share.

So, it sounds like these are like a preferred stock share of the company. No voting rights, dividend based on profits and equity share. Which means, if someone buys the company, they must buy out the preferred stock holders.

Is that not correct?

Correct!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 25, 2014, 06:04:40 pm
Ok, so, CfB is behind the technical innovation and programming.  What are uniqueorn and wesleyh roles?

What is the internal company share split between the founders?

CfB is definitely the innovator and lead programmer at the moment. Naturally as we are hiring more devs, there will spring out innovation from these people too. But currently he's *the* innovator, yes.

Wesleyh is front-end developer and proof-of-concept developer, as well as advisor on Abracadabra

David/uniqueorn is the organizer / manager of the project in charge of everything from research and prospectus to hiring and allocation of resources.

Naturally there is a lot of overlap in any startup project. But those are roughly the tasks of the core. We have already started bringing onboard more people that will be disclosed soon who is taking care of other developmental issues.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 25, 2014, 06:07:52 pm
David/uniqueorn is the organizer / manager of the project in charge of everything from research and prospectus to hiring and allocation of resources.

Is Triangle David?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: 2Kool4Skewl on September 25, 2014, 06:10:50 pm
What is the internal company share split between the founders?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 25, 2014, 06:15:26 pm
David/uniqueorn is the organizer / manager of the project in charge of everything from research and prospectus to hiring and allocation of resources.

Is Triangle David?

Yes, I am.

What is the internal company share split between the founders?

It's been mentioned earlier, but it's 1/3 each of what's left when we're at completion of Jinn processor launch.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: 2Kool4Skewl on September 25, 2014, 06:34:06 pm
What is the internal company share split between the founders?

It's been mentioned earlier, but it's 1/3 each of what's left when we're at completion of Jinn processor launch.

So, it's currently 30% for each member.  Do you plan on expanding the float at a later date?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on September 25, 2014, 06:59:02 pm
You need to clarify/update this on the JINN website - it reads now as if share holders would get profits ONLY and not any compensation in the event of a sale. Make it clear that the acquiring company would be forced to buy out the shareholders who come on board now - that is pretty huge here.


Triangle, if you sell Jinn for 4 billion dollars and CFB owns 100k tokens will he receive 400 million dollars?

No, we'll give him about three fiddy.

Yes, of course he will.

And the same for the asset holders who purchase their assets via AE.

But you said the assets are not an equity share.

So, it sounds like these are like a preferred stock share of the company. No voting rights, dividend based on profits and equity share. Which means, if someone buys the company, they must buy out the preferred stock holders.

Is that not correct?

Correct!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 25, 2014, 07:22:38 pm
You need to clarify/update this on the JINN website - it reads now as if share holders would get profits ONLY and not any compensation in the event of a sale. Make it clear that the acquiring company would be forced to buy out the shareholders who come on board now - that is pretty huge here.


Triangle, if you sell Jinn for 4 billion dollars and CFB owns 100k tokens will he receive 400 million dollars?

No, we'll give him about three fiddy.

Yes, of course he will.

And the same for the asset holders who purchase their assets via AE.

But you said the assets are not an equity share.

So, it sounds like these are like a preferred stock share of the company. No voting rights, dividend based on profits and equity share. Which means, if someone buys the company, they must buy out the preferred stock holders.

Is that not correct?

Correct!


Thanks, we will do shortly!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 25, 2014, 07:27:28 pm
What is the internal company share split between the founders?

It's been mentioned earlier, but it's 1/3 each of what's left when we're at completion of Jinn processor launch.

So, it's currently 30% for each member.  Do you plan on expanding the float at a later date?

Only in accordance to what we've already set in the prospectus. We plan to sell these 10% now to get the funding required, but we will not sell additional shares until we meet milestone #1 no.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Windjc on September 25, 2014, 08:09:35 pm
What is the internal company share split between the founders?

It's been mentioned earlier, but it's 1/3 each of what's left when we're at completion of Jinn processor launch.

So, it's currently 30% for each member.  Do you plan on expanding the float at a later date?

Only in accordance to what we've already set in the prospectus. We plan to sell these 10% now to get the funding required, but we will not sell additional shares until we meet milestone #1 no.

The company has a valuation of over $1.6+ million today. How much were you expecting before initial release? Its a hot time to get on the Nxt Asset train, but the higher things climb the bigger they can fall. Although its hard to pass up on the idea of millions, the true valuation will be more difficult to achieve if share prices dumb before you are able to deliver the goods because the initial price was a bubble. Most people are investing in Nxt assets, not because they think they will make a lot of dividends or even because

Just things to consider here. I'm investing, if just to support the cause, but we need to tread carefully, imo.

This is exactly why I like Jl777's approach. Allow room for error. Because there will always be more "error" than you will expect.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Berry on September 25, 2014, 08:13:00 pm
What is the internal company share split between the founders?

It's been mentioned earlier, but it's 1/3 each of what's left when we're at completion of Jinn processor launch.

So, it's currently 30% for each member.  Do you plan on expanding the float at a later date?

Only in accordance to what we've already set in the prospectus. We plan to sell these 10% now to get the funding required, but we will not sell additional shares until we meet milestone #1 no.

The company has a valuation of over $10 million today. How much were you expecting before initial release? Its a hot time to get on the Nxt Asset train, but the higher things climb the bigger they can fall. Although its hard to pass up on the idea of millions, the true valuation will be more difficult to achieve if share prices dumb before you are able to deliver the goods because the initial price was a bubble.

Just things to consider here. I'm investing, if just to support the cause, but we need to tread carefully, imo.

This is exactly why I like Jl777's approach. Allow room for error. Because there will always be more "error" than you will expect.

Why 10 mio$
matchprice is 56 NXT at the moment. 1,000,000 shares
--> 56,000,000 NXT equals round about 1,600,000$

But that´s way to much for the stage of this project in my opinion.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 25, 2014, 08:16:43 pm
take a look there:
http://blocks.nxtcrypto.org/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=15275186119672269441&switch=3&p=1

it will take some time before the coverage is 100% at the level of money they will want to raise. We are about at 14% coverage at the moment.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Windjc on September 25, 2014, 08:16:50 pm
What is the internal company share split between the founders?

It's been mentioned earlier, but it's 1/3 each of what's left when we're at completion of Jinn processor launch.

So, it's currently 30% for each member.  Do you plan on expanding the float at a later date?

Only in accordance to what we've already set in the prospectus. We plan to sell these 10% now to get the funding required, but we will not sell additional shares until we meet milestone #1 no.

The company has a valuation of over $10 million today. How much were you expecting before initial release? Its a hot time to get on the Nxt Asset train, but the higher things climb the bigger they can fall. Although its hard to pass up on the idea of millions, the true valuation will be more difficult to achieve if share prices dumb before you are able to deliver the goods because the initial price was a bubble.

Just things to consider here. I'm investing, if just to support the cause, but we need to tread carefully, imo.

This is exactly why I like Jl777's approach. Allow room for error. Because there will always be more "error" than you will expect.

Why 10 mio$
matchprice is 56 NXT at the moment. 1,000,000 shares
--> 56,000,000 NXT equals round about 1,600,000$

But that´s way to much for the stage of this project in my opinion.

You are correct. Bad math :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Windjc on September 25, 2014, 08:17:49 pm
take a look there:
http://blocks.nxtcrypto.org/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=15275186119672269441&switch=3&p=1

it will take some time before the coverage is 100% at the level of money they will want to raise. We are about at 14% coverage at the moment.

Can you explain where you are getting 14% from?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 25, 2014, 08:18:44 pm
well it on the link. it is explaine there "Percentage sellable shares".
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: profitofthegods on September 25, 2014, 08:26:41 pm
well it on the link. it is explaine there "Percentage sellable shares".

They are only selling 10% - that number just means there are bids for more than they are selling already.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 25, 2014, 08:29:15 pm
well it on the link. it is explaine there "Percentage sellable shares".

They are only selling 10% - that number just means there are bids for more than they are selling already.
Ho. misread, there is 1M asset... thanks.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 25, 2014, 08:34:44 pm
I'm kind of very suprise to see bid at 500NXT  ???
How many employees do triangle need to employ with the fund?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: profitofthegods on September 25, 2014, 08:53:49 pm
I'm kind of very suprise to see bid at 500NXT  ???
How many employees do triangle need to employ with the fund?

I was shocked by that too - I presume they don't actually expect to pay that much and just wanted to be 100% sure of getting some.

Its not just employees though, I would have thought prototyping and production costs would be quite significant for the actual physical product.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 25, 2014, 09:15:44 pm
God, 60 NXT is now the bottom, it do go up fast.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on September 25, 2014, 09:27:14 pm
God, 60 NXT is now the bottom, it do go up fast.

Prices are starting to feel uncomfortable  :'(

 ;D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: btcsnippers on September 25, 2014, 10:26:58 pm
what Assets does the company currently have?
If this sells at 60 nxt Jin would get about 2mln usd right ? at 10% thats a 20mln dollar company.
I havent read all yet, but im just curious how do u justify such an evaluation does the company own buildings hardware anything besides a great idea and a movitated group of people behind it?
does the company own any pattents or anything ?
I read some people involved Invested NXT and a few k , i think its a Giant leap going from that to a company thats worth 20mln.
I really like the Idea and id love to invest in a tech upstart but please give me some justification for your evalutation.(i think i read u wanted around 1.6 mln for development)
and 10X1.6 is still 16 mln why are u worth 16 mln today ?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 25, 2014, 10:36:23 pm
If this sells at 60 nxt Jin would get about 2mln usd right ? at 10% thats a 20mln dollar company.

Divide by ten and you got it right.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: btcsnippers on September 25, 2014, 10:51:03 pm
If this sells at 60 nxt Jin would get about 2mln usd right ? at 10% thats a 20mln dollar company.

Divide by ten and you got it right.

1.000.000 x 60 nxt = 60.000.000 x 0.041 =2.460.000 no ?

If they where only asking  200k for 10% id have jumped on it allready but this is a little more then that.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on September 25, 2014, 10:54:19 pm
That would be the TOTAL valuation, yes... but they are offering only 100,000 shares.



If this sells at 60 nxt Jin would get about 2mln usd right ? at 10% thats a 20mln dollar company.

Divide by ten and you got it right.

1.000.000 x 60 nxt = 60.000.000 x 0.041 =2.460.000 no ?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: btcsnippers on September 25, 2014, 10:58:54 pm
That would be the TOTAL valuation, yes... but they are offering only 100,000 shares.



If this sells at 60 nxt Jin would get about 2mln usd right ? at 10% thats a 20mln dollar company.

Divide by ten and you got it right.

1.000.000 x 60 nxt = 60.000.000 x 0.041 =2.460.000 no ?

aah they only selling 100k of the visible million ah i missed that part tnx for clearing that up.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rlh on September 26, 2014, 02:17:02 am
This is possibly a quote I will regret, but at this stage I think this is way over priced.  This is due to the significant risk of this project being successful.  This is a near-impossible project but it is one that if it succeeds then owning just few shares today could be like hitting the lottery in 20 years.

Smart money tells me that a lot of hyped up buyers are filling the order book who will start to dump below the final ipo price in 2-3 months, unless revenue starts pouring in before then.

Ergo, I'm in but I'm waiting until after the IPO.  I will revisit this frequently and take my chances on the likelyhood that there will be a selloff.  If there isn't, I'll just buy at a higher price when I'm confident in the business model from the results that I see.  Yes, this means that I could potentially make more if I'd invest now, but his is a huge risk and I'm rather high-risk averse.

My 2 cents.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Arpeggio on September 26, 2014, 03:25:55 am
Not that this will change anything but now we know the execution price of the dutch auction is not under 60 nxts. If it were something like 30-40 nxt then it would be okay imo. But considering the huge risk and likelihood of failure 10% was really stingy to offer.

If you project this much funding is needed for Jinn then may I suggest raising the shares to 150,000 at the very least and lower your target price. Offering 10% at these prices with the target price not even reached yet is too greedy no offense.

You clearly need a lot of money to make this a success. Nobody disagrees with that. Raising the number of initial tokens and lowering the price will get you more funds.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: buybitcoinscanada on September 26, 2014, 03:47:21 am
A
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 26, 2014, 04:04:49 am
Not that this will change anything but now we know the execution price of the dutch auction is not under 60 nxts. If it were something like 30-40 nxt then it would be okay imo. But considering the huge risk and likelihood of failure 10% was really stingy to offer.

If you project this much funding is needed for Jinn then may I suggest raising the shares to 150,000 at the very least and lower your target price. Offering 10% at these prices with the target price not even reached yet is too greedy no offense.

You clearly need a lot of money to make this a success. Nobody disagrees with that. Raising the number of initial tokens and lowering the price will get you more funds.

Seconded. From what they have explained as being the first checkpoint, I'm trying to figure out why they feel they need more than $150,000 at this point. If they really do, add more tokens to the offering. Consider on top of that, the likelihood of Nxt becoming less valuable than it is now, thus the project becoming underfunded is quite low and the probability of upside on Nxt while this project is being developed is looking pretty good.


While we do understand that it may look like that to some, to us it is the exact other way around. We cannot afford to gamble that NXT will go up in price, regardless of what we think as individuals, a professional startup has to take into account the risks. Currently one of the biggest risks is that NXT falls in value, so we have to be absolutely certain that the price we accept can withstand some volatility.

Also I realize that a lot of people feel that 10% sounds like very little, but 10% is above what most seeding rounds give out. Usually it's between 5-8% and often way higher sums raised than what is currently on the table, and that is in dollars, not extremely volatile crypto-currency funding.

Our primary concern is to get Jinn to market, which we are confident that we can and will do, but this costs dollar money, not just crypto money. On top of this we are not going to crash NXTs price, so it's not like we can cash out ASAP to secure the funding in dollar (which would be way less volatile), so all of these things factor into our decision. Because at the end of the day, what matters is that Jinn is launched which will benefit all asset holders tremendously.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Arpeggio on September 26, 2014, 04:24:43 am
Not that this will change anything but now we know the execution price of the dutch auction is not under 60 nxts. If it were something like 30-40 nxt then it would be okay imo. But considering the huge risk and likelihood of failure 10% was really stingy to offer.

If you project this much funding is needed for Jinn then may I suggest raising the shares to 150,000 at the very least and lower your target price. Offering 10% at these prices with the target price not even reached yet is too greedy no offense.

You clearly need a lot of money to make this a success. Nobody disagrees with that. Raising the number of initial tokens and lowering the price will get you more funds.

Seconded. From what they have explained as being the first checkpoint, I'm trying to figure out why they feel they need more than $150,000 at this point. If they really do, add more tokens to the offering. Consider on top of that, the likelihood of Nxt becoming less valuable than it is now, thus the project becoming underfunded is quite low and the probability of upside on Nxt while this project is being developed is looking pretty good.


While we do understand that it may look like that to some, to us it is the exact other way around. We cannot afford to gamble that NXT will go up in price, regardless of what we think as individuals, a professional startup has to take into account the risks. Currently one of the biggest risks is that NXT falls in value, so we have to be absolutely certain that the price we accept can withstand some volatility.

Also I realize that a lot of people feel that 10% sounds like very little, but 10% is above what most seeding rounds give out. Usually it's between 5-8% and often way higher sums raised than what is currently on the table, and that is in dollars, not extremely volatile crypto-currency funding.

Our primary concern is to get Jinn to market, which we are confident that we can and will do, but this costs dollar money, not just crypto money. On top of this we are not going to crash NXTs price, so it's not like we can cash out ASAP to secure the funding in dollar (which would be way less volatile), so all of these things factor into our decision. Because at the end of the day, what matters is that Jinn is launched which will benefit all asset holders tremendously.

I agree with everything you said. Except that Jinn as an investment is way riskier than just about anything I can think of to invest in. Given that, 10% is very expensive for investors. I as an investor want Jinn to succeed and therefore want Jinn to raise all the money it needs and then some. So in order to do that is it really unreasonable for you guys to take 5% less than initially planned?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: spaw on September 26, 2014, 04:41:22 am
Not that this will change anything but now we know the execution price of the dutch auction is not under 60 nxts. If it were something like 30-40 nxt then it would be okay imo. But considering the huge risk and likelihood of failure 10% was really stingy to offer.

If you project this much funding is needed for Jinn then may I suggest raising the shares to 150,000 at the very least and lower your target price. Offering 10% at these prices with the target price not even reached yet is too greedy no offense.

You clearly need a lot of money to make this a success. Nobody disagrees with that. Raising the number of initial tokens and lowering the price will get you more funds.

Seconded. From what they have explained as being the first checkpoint, I'm trying to figure out why they feel they need more than $150,000 at this point. If they really do, add more tokens to the offering. Consider on top of that, the likelihood of Nxt becoming less valuable than it is now, thus the project becoming underfunded is quite low and the probability of upside on Nxt while this project is being developed is looking pretty good.


While we do understand that it may look like that to some, to us it is the exact other way around. We cannot afford to gamble that NXT will go up in price, regardless of what we think as individuals, a professional startup has to take into account the risks. Currently one of the biggest risks is that NXT falls in value, so we have to be absolutely certain that the price we accept can withstand some volatility.

Also I realize that a lot of people feel that 10% sounds like very little, but 10% is above what most seeding rounds give out. Usually it's between 5-8% and often way higher sums raised than what is currently on the table, and that is in dollars, not extremely volatile crypto-currency funding.

Our primary concern is to get Jinn to market, which we are confident that we can and will do, but this costs dollar money, not just crypto money. On top of this we are not going to crash NXTs price, so it's not like we can cash out ASAP to secure the funding in dollar (which would be way less volatile), so all of these things factor into our decision. Because at the end of the day, what matters is that Jinn is launched which will benefit all asset holders tremendously.

I agree with everything you said. Except that Jinn as an investment is way riskier than just about anything I can think of to invest in. Given that, 10% is very expensive for investors. I as an investor want Jinn to succeed and therefore want Jinn to raise all the money it needs and then some. So in order to do that is it really unreasonable for you guys to take 5% less than initially planned?
Is this really the riskiest? There is money to be made with just the software developments if I've been reading this right, but there's a good chance I'm not
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 26, 2014, 04:51:55 am

I agree with everything you said. Except that Jinn as an investment is way riskier than just about anything I can think of to invest in. Given that, 10% is very expensive for investors. I as an investor want Jinn to succeed and therefore want Jinn to raise all the money it needs and then some. So in order to do that is it really unreasonable for you guys to take 5% less than initially planned?

While there is no doubt there is risk involved and I have no idea what you have considered investing in, I do think you overestimate the risk of this project failing completely without starting to generate income.
This project will be monetized from software development and emulator way before Jinn the processor reaches market.
If we decided to take 5% less (assets), we would just sell for less instead.

Is this really the riskiest? There is money to be made with just the software developments if I've been reading this right, but there's a good chance I'm not


You are correct, software development and emulator will generate profits way before Jinn.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: neofelis on September 26, 2014, 05:05:28 am
What do you mean "not equity shares"?  This 10% is not ownership in the company? You want our money and will give part of the profits to the investors but no say in how the company will be run? 10% is not enough of ownership to control a company but if the company really becomes worth something the investors still only get profits but no capital appreciation.

Explain why this is a good idea.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: buybitcoinscanada on September 26, 2014, 05:40:59 am
A
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Arpeggio on September 26, 2014, 05:42:41 am
While there is no doubt there is risk involved and I have no idea what you have considered investing in, I do think you overestimate the risk of this project failing completely without starting to generate income.
This project will be monetized from software development and emulator way before Jinn the processor reaches market.

Of course from your perspective its easy to see how likely success will be and how soon it will start. I understand for this to fail miserably is not that high of a chance. But I am also factoring:

If we decided to take 5% less (assets), we would just sell for less instead.
If you sell for less you will raise less money. If you offer 5% more, you get less assets but more funds to bring Jinn to fruition. Unless I am misunderstanding the statement.

Anyway, I am all for this project. Making Jinn happen is what matters most.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 26, 2014, 06:25:27 am
Those who say that Jinn is way overpriced now and the most risky asset, I don't agree. Look at what SuperNET did as far as funding goes. It's no less riskier than Jinn. Either both of them are risky and overpriced, or neither of them are. I guess we have to wait for a few months to find out.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 26, 2014, 07:11:52 am
What do you mean "not equity shares"?  This 10% is not ownership in the company? You want our money and will give part of the profits to the investors but no say in how the company will be run? 10% is not enough of ownership to control a company but if the company really becomes worth something the investors still only get profits but no capital appreciation.

Explain why this is a good idea.

Good point. Looking for an answer to this.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Berry on September 26, 2014, 08:07:33 am
Those who say that Jinn is way overpriced now and the most risky asset, I don't agree. Look at what SuperNET did as far as funding goes. It's no less riskier than Jinn. Either both of them are risky and overpriced, or neither of them are. I guess we have to wait for a few months to find out.

Really?
Supernet is backed by assets.
Jinn is not.
You can´t compare them.

To value this project at 2,5mio$ is insane. I know they need funding. They really do, but 60 NXT per share is insane.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on September 26, 2014, 08:32:35 am
yub 60nxt per share.. great project and fantastic programmer but im out way too over priced.
will reinvest in after price goes down or progress is shown.

at this rate it will sold at 100nxt per share.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 26, 2014, 08:56:29 am
This is possibly a quote I will regret, but at this stage I think this is way over priced.  This is due to the significant risk of this project being successful.  This is a near-impossible project but it is one that if it succeeds then owning just few shares today could be like hitting the lottery in 20 years.

Smart money tells me that a lot of hyped up buyers are filling the order book who will start to dump below the final ipo price in 2-3 months, unless revenue starts pouring in before then.

Ergo, I'm in but I'm waiting until after the IPO.  I will revisit this frequently and take my chances on the likelyhood that there will be a selloff.  If there isn't, I'll just buy at a higher price when I'm confident in the business model from the results that I see.  Yes, this means that I could potentially make more if I'd invest now, but his is a huge risk and I'm rather high-risk averse.

My 2 cents.

im with you on that actually.. pulled out last night. its getting over valued at this stage.. this will only compound the risk on the very early adopters. if jinn is to be the next intel then buying shares 2 months - 3 months down the line will still be like buying apple stocks back before they got the first vc investment. the fact we even know about it at such an early stage means we have a long long time to buy in and still make huge profit. so ya the risk has gotten to much for me to invest at this stage. as the dragons say... "im out". lol (until a point in the future) ::)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 26, 2014, 08:57:40 am
Those who say that Jinn is way overpriced now and the most risky asset, I don't agree. Look at what SuperNET did as far as funding goes. It's no less riskier than Jinn. Either both of them are risky and overpriced, or neither of them are. I guess we have to wait for a few months to find out.

Really?
Supernet is backed by assets.
Jinn is not.
You can´t compare them.

To value this project at 2,5mio$ is insane. I know they need funding. They really do, but 60 NXT per share is insane.

I wouldn't really call those assets. To me both SuperNET and Jinn are about the same high risk, as both projects essentially rely on one person's vision (James for SuperNET, CfB for Jinn) with a lot of spots that investors don't comprehend, not to mention other risks. But you are free to have your own view on them. I'll shut up now or someone will say I am spreading FUD :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on September 26, 2014, 09:20:57 am
I was hoping to get more shares.  But I got priced out of my big order.  Whales have deep pockets.  Me..... not at all. 

Good luck with Jin!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: valarmg on September 26, 2014, 09:25:48 am

I wouldn't really call those assets. To me both SuperNET and Jinn are about the same high risk, as both projects essentially rely on one person's vision (James for SuperNET, CfB for Jinn) with a lot of spots that investors don't comprehend, not to mention other risks. But you are free to have your own view on them. I'll shut up now or someone will say I am spreading FUD :)

A huge percentage of SuperNET is backed up of Nxt+BTC that aren't going to be spent. Is that what you mean by risky assets?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: profitofthegods on September 26, 2014, 09:27:10 am
What do you mean "not equity shares"?  This 10% is not ownership in the company? You want our money and will give part of the profits to the investors but no say in how the company will be run? 10% is not enough of ownership to control a company but if the company really becomes worth something the investors still only get profits but no capital appreciation.

Explain why this is a good idea.

More profits = more dividends = higher asset price. That's capital appreciation isn't it? Equity is legal ownership (This isn't a DAC so you can't have the tokens act as crypto-equity, which means the only kind of equity is government sanctioned equity), which with something like this comes with all sorts of legal complications which I don't want my NXT to have to pay for.

Also on votes, I don't trust the average investor to have the first clue how to run something like this. I'm not saying we're all idiots, but I've seen where voting gets us in political elections...

On a less positive note, I originally calculated 50 as a fair price so I do think this is getting overpriced and I hope it doesn't go up too much further.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 26, 2014, 09:31:22 am
A huge percentage of it is backed up of Nxt+BTC that aren't going to be spent. Is that what you mean by risky assets?

Yes, those are risky. I would prefer to see software products or even hardware as assets, but neither projects have those yet, hence they both are on the same level for me. Both projects are at this stage all about trust and faith in one person backing the project. Correct me if I am wrong, but the software part of Jinn doesn't require much more spending of collected funds than SuperNET, although that's one of the spots that are not clear yet with both projects.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 26, 2014, 10:16:50 am
On a less positive note, I originally calculated 50 as a fair price so I do think this is getting overpriced and I hope it doesn't go up too much further.

Could you tell how you ended with this number, please? I'd like to compare your numbers to mine.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Brangdon on September 26, 2014, 11:02:02 am
I'm kind of very suprise to see bid at 500NXT  ???
How many employees do triangle need to employ with the fund?
I also see a bid at 900NXT. However, it's only for 5 shares. Basically, someone wants to be very sure that they get a few shares at whatever price, and are assuming what they pay won't be anything like 900. If it's 60, their 5 shares will cost them 300 NXT, not 4,500. Most of the high bids are like that, with only a few requesting large numbers of shares.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: curve25519 on September 26, 2014, 11:07:26 am
The website say "1/5th of the remaining assets will be handed over (and allowed to be sold) to the founders (Come-from-Beyond, David, Wesley) after Jiniri Limited is completed. 1/4th of the remaining assets to the same people after Jiniri Unlimited is completed and the proof-of-concept game is released. 1/3th - after Jinn is designed. 1/2th - after Jinn prototypes manufactured. And the remaining assets will be handed over after the very first Jinn processors are sold."

Case 1
*All* expenses for r&d from now until “first Jinn processor is sold” will be funded by money from this 10% ipo and remaining assets (900,000) will be handed over to founders for them to sell as their personal reward.

Case 2
The 900,000 remaining assets will be handed to founders to sell to raise more money until “first Jinn processor is sold”. Balance will be reward for founders.

pls explain which one is true?

If Case 2 is true, please give estimated amount you budget to sell for dev until “first Jinn processor is sold”. TQ
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: profitofthegods on September 26, 2014, 11:33:02 am
On a less positive note, I originally calculated 50 as a fair price so I do think this is getting overpriced and I hope it doesn't go up too much further.

Could you tell how you ended with this number, please? I'd like to compare your numbers to mine.

Erm, well when I said 'calculated' I may have made it sound like a more rigorous process than what I actually went through.

I'm a little embarrased sharing this as its probably way off and I'll make myself look stupid, but I started off by trying to think about the minimum amount I would expect you to need to cover costs, including potentially having the first prototypes manufactured, and took a wild guess that this would probably need at least $50k. I then estimated the amount of time it would take for the emulator to start bringing in revenue at 6 months (the end of the financial quarter in which Jinri unlimited is released) and guessed that a couple of freelancers to handle the stuff you can't do would be possible with $60k. After that you will have had two furter rounds of tokens unlocked. That gave me $110. The extra $40k to reach the 'round number' of $150k has absolutely no basis other than that it felt right to both cover minor expenses, and to give you a little something yourselves until November when Jinri Limited is due to be released and another 1/5th of the assets are unlocked. I think 50 NXT is a bit over $150k at the moment.

Perhaps it seems a bit mean to just want the money to cover your costs and not really give you anything significant yourselves, but this is very early stage and high risk on one hand, and on the other hand you have said the emulator will be released quite soon and if this is any good I think you will get both revenue and a strong increase in the value of your remaining assets quite soon as well.

I should also note that I've increased my own bids beyond 50 NXT, so its not like I calculated the 50 as a maximum -- just my best guess and the point at which I placed my first bid.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 26, 2014, 11:39:52 am
It indeed is not a bad idea to convert all Nxt to fiat when the fundraising is over to make sure you have certain money to spend. This is how Sia did. The sell of NXT can be conducted outside of exchanges to avoid the crash the price of Nxt.

By the way all, this is just an investment opportunity. If you think it is too risky for you, you can wait and buy it at the secondary market when you see some progress of Jinn project.The secondary market price won't be skyrocket high but could be lower if people don't see progress for a while. Its asset will always be there on AE available for trade.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 26, 2014, 11:42:32 am
I don't think CfB and probably the other guys believe in fiat more than they believe in NXT :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: profitofthegods on September 26, 2014, 11:50:07 am
It indeed is not a bad idea to convert all Nxt to fiat when the fundraising is over to make sure you have certain money to spend. This is how Sia did. The sell of NXT can be conducted outside of exchanges to avoid the crash the price of Nxt.

But if they crash the price of NXT by selling then we can buy back the coins we spent investing in this.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 26, 2014, 11:56:15 am
It indeed is not a bad idea to convert all Nxt to fiat when the fundraising is over to make sure you have certain money to spend. This is how Sia did. The sell of NXT can be conducted outside of exchanges to avoid the crash the price of Nxt.

By the way all, this is just an investment opportunity. If you think it is too risky for you, you can wait and buy it at the secondary market when you see some progress of Jinn project.The secondary market price won't be skyrocket high but could be lower if people don't see progress for a while. Its asset will always be there on AE available for trade.

I'm trying to persuade other founders not to exchange received NXT for BTC or USD but place a bid order at exactly same price as we will place the ask order at. The amount will be gradually lowered over time when we need to spend part of the money, but at least there will be a period of time when initial investors will be protected against events like explosive rise of NXT price and the like. I don't know if expected rise of NXT is included into the business plan, so I can't guarantee that my suggestion will be accepted.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rlh on September 26, 2014, 12:00:14 pm
It indeed is not a bad idea to convert all Nxt to fiat when the fundraising is over to make sure you have certain money to spend. This is how Sia did. The sell of NXT can be conducted outside of exchanges to avoid the crash the price of Nxt.

By the way all, this is just an investment opportunity. If you think it is too risky for you, you can wait and buy it at the secondary market when you see some progress of Jinn project.The secondary market price won't be skyrocket high but could be lower if people don't see progress for a while. Its asset will always be there on AE available for trade.

Just so I am clear, and with all investment observations and thoughts aside, the idea of this project has me stoked out of my mind.  I will likely put a high bid in for 5-10 initial shares, but only because I want to seed the endevour.  I consider that purchase more of an "I wish you well" donation.  Computers need something like this and though I dream of the day that my toaster has an embedded quantum computer, I also realize that such a thing might not even exist until long after I'm dead.  Before then, though, I want to see a REAL shake-up in modern computing.

This idea has exceptional potential if Jinn Labs plays the game well.  It's a hard game to play, but it can be won.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: humbot on September 26, 2014, 12:10:18 pm
Most of the high bids are like that, with only a few requesting large numbers of shares.

Many of the high bids for ≥1000 shares were from the same account when I checked earlier. One account had placed multiple bids at different high price points to ensure receiving about 10% of the available shares. No problem with that except in another thread ThomasVeil has noticed an increasing concentration of NXT into fewer accounts instead of increased distribution https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/price-speculation/12140#msg107263

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 26, 2014, 12:35:31 pm
It indeed is not a bad idea to convert all Nxt to fiat when the fundraising is over to make sure you have certain money to spend. This is how Sia did. The sell of NXT can be conducted outside of exchanges to avoid the crash the price of Nxt.

By the way all, this is just an investment opportunity. If you think it is too risky for you, you can wait and buy it at the secondary market when you see some progress of Jinn project.The secondary market price won't be skyrocket high but could be lower if people don't see progress for a while. Its asset will always be there on AE available for trade.

I'm trying to persuade other founders not to exchange received NXT for BTC or USD but place a bid order at exactly same price as we will place the ask order at. The amount will be gradually lowered over time when we need to spend part of the money, but at least there will be a period of time when initial investors will be protected against events like explosive rise of NXT price and the like. I don't know if expected rise of NXT is included into the business plan, so I can't guarantee that my suggestion will be accepted.

I reallty like that +1.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 26, 2014, 01:13:46 pm
I'm trying to persuade other founders not to exchange received NXT for BTC or USD but place a bid order at exactly same price as we will place the ask order at. The amount will be gradually lowered over time when we need to spend part of the money, but at least there will be a period of time when initial investors will be protected against events like explosive rise of NXT price and the like. I don't know if expected rise of NXT is included into the business plan, so I can't guarantee that my suggestion will be accepted.

You are probably right on this. I forgot the coming features like Smart Contract which will very likely to push Nxt price up, maybe double or even higher. As operating a company, minimizing the operation risk and cost is a rule of thumb. It seems that it will not be an easy work for your guys to find a fine balance between.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Jimmy2011 on September 26, 2014, 01:50:55 pm
May I regard this is the main project?

来自 MI 2SC 上的 Tapatalk now Free (http://'http://tapatalk.com/m?id=10')

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 26, 2014, 01:56:50 pm
May I regard this is the main project?

来自 MI 2SC 上的 Tapatalk now Free (http://'http://tapatalk.com/m?id=10')

Currently, for me it's the main project. Is it what you asked? This Tapatalk message is confusing.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Jimmy2011 on September 26, 2014, 02:08:01 pm
@come-from-beyond , thank you at least you confirmed it is your personal main project currently. On the other hand, I'm curious about BCNext's main project.

来自 MI 2SC 上的 Tapatalk now Free (http://'http://tapatalk.com/m?id=10')

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 26, 2014, 02:17:14 pm
@come-from-beyond , thank you at least you confirmed it is your personal main project currently. On the other hand, I'm curious about BCNext's main project.

来自 MI 2SC 上的 Tapatalk now Free (http://'http://tapatalk.com/m?id=10')

I can say nothing about his main project.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 26, 2014, 02:33:36 pm
@come-from-beyond , thank you at least you confirmed it is your personal main project currently. On the other hand, I'm curious about BCNext's main project.

来自 MI 2SC 上的 Tapatalk now Free (http://'http://tapatalk.com/m?id=10')

I can say nothing about his main project.

you cant say because you dont know or you do know but cannot say because that would be publicizing information that is not yours to publicize?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 26, 2014, 03:45:29 pm
you cant say because you dont know or you do know but cannot say because that would be publicizing information that is not yours to publicize?

I can't say even the reason. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on September 26, 2014, 03:47:25 pm
you cant say because you dont know or you do know but cannot say because that would be publicizing information that is not yours to publicize?

I can't say even the reason. :)
So you do know the project then lol
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 26, 2014, 03:53:26 pm
Announcing Medium: https://nxtforum.org/jinn/(ann)-medium/
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on September 26, 2014, 03:59:44 pm
 ;D I knew that was coming.


you cant say because you dont know or you do know but cannot say because that would be publicizing information that is not yours to publicize?

I can't say even the reason. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on September 26, 2014, 04:05:14 pm
It indeed is not a bad idea to convert all Nxt to fiat when the fundraising is over to make sure you have certain money to spend. This is how Sia did. The sell of NXT can be conducted outside of exchanges to avoid the crash the price of Nxt.

By the way all, this is just an investment opportunity. If you think it is too risky for you, you can wait and buy it at the secondary market when you see some progress of Jinn project.The secondary market price won't be skyrocket high but could be lower if people don't see progress for a while. Its asset will always be there on AE available for trade.

I'm trying to persuade other founders not to exchange received NXT for BTC or USD but place a bid order at exactly same price as we will place the ask order at. The amount will be gradually lowered over time when we need to spend part of the money, but at least there will be a period of time when initial investors will be protected against events like explosive rise of NXT price and the like. I don't know if expected rise of NXT is included into the business plan, so I can't guarantee that my suggestion will be accepted.

I have had respect for you for a long time, but this statement just puts it over the top. 

Crypto is a world where I am pretty sure exchanges are doing the exact opposite of what you are saying.  The exchange owners put up fake sell walls and buy ways.  They do this to cyphen off all the new money coming into crypto and pocket it.  I think this is a reason why bitcoin is in a pattern of slowly going down and down and down and then spikes up as the exchange owners are rebooting their scam. 

Here you are proposing to do the exact opposite, trying to stabilize the price and protect the consumers, maybe acting like a NXT reserve in a way.  If this goes through, I will sing you praises for a long time.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 26, 2014, 05:14:47 pm
After thinking more about my suggestion I saw a serious problem. Someone could troll this "IPO" by paying high price and then selling the tokens back. My suggestion would lead to an artificially high price and lack of funding, which would slow the growth and ruin it for real "investors". So I withdraw it.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: colin012 on September 26, 2014, 05:54:38 pm
After thinking more about my suggestion I saw a serious problem. Someone could troll this "IPO" by paying high price and then selling the tokens back. My suggestion would lead to an artificially high price and lack of funding, which would slow the growth and ruin it for real "investors". So I withdraw it.

Too bad. It was good in theory.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 26, 2014, 06:01:30 pm
After thinking more about my suggestion I saw a serious problem. Someone could troll this "IPO" by paying high price and then selling the tokens back. My suggestion would lead to an artificially high price and lack of funding, which would slow the growth and ruin it for real "investors". So I withdraw it.

Too bad. It was good in theory.

We'll still be very transparent with our spendings and wont cash out more than needed at a time. We have absolutely no intention of crashing NXT as it's still a project all of us are actively working on, so don't worry about that :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TheWireMaster on September 26, 2014, 06:07:05 pm
May I ask a very stupid question? Why are there projects like this which I believe it but everybody has to be anonymous? It's a super project and probably someone will be invited to talk about it. But if it's all anonymous who speaks? CfB is BCnext+Satoshi, so I understand... But the others?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 26, 2014, 06:16:52 pm
May I ask a very stupid question? Why are there projects like this which I believe it but everybody has to be anonymous? It's a super project and probably someone will be invited to talk about it. But if it's all anonymous who speaks? CfB is BCnext+Satoshi, so I understand... But the others?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm not anonymous, my real name is Sergey Ivancheglo, but I don't use it on the Internet.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TheWireMaster on September 26, 2014, 06:27:05 pm

May I ask a very stupid question? Why are there projects like this which I believe it but everybody has to be anonymous? It's a super project and probably someone will be invited to talk about it. But if it's all anonymous who speaks? CfB is BCnext+Satoshi, so I understand... But the others?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm not anonymous, my real name is Sergey Ivancheglo, but I don't use it on the Internet.

I guess Google is registering a peak of searches for Sergey Ivancheglo... ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 26, 2014, 06:34:18 pm
May I ask a very stupid question? Why are there projects like this which I believe it but everybody has to be anonymous? It's a super project and probably someone will be invited to talk about it. But if it's all anonymous who speaks? CfB is BCnext+Satoshi, so I understand... But the others?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think it will be impossible for the founders of a corporation to be anonymous after the incorporation. My guess is that they need to figure out some legal issues and make sure it is legal to do the fundraising on the AE first if incorporated.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 26, 2014, 06:37:10 pm
May I ask a very stupid question? Why are there projects like this which I believe it but everybody has to be anonymous? It's a super project and probably someone will be invited to talk about it. But if it's all anonymous who speaks? CfB is BCnext+Satoshi, so I understand... But the others?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think it will be impossible for the founders of a corporation to be anonymous after the incorporation. My guess is that they need to figure out some legal issues and make sure it is legal to do the fundraising on the AE first if incorporated.

We have absolutely no intention of being anonymous at all. This is a serious business venture in the real world, it's not just a asset online :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TheWireMaster on September 26, 2014, 06:51:16 pm
May I ask a very stupid question? Why are there projects like this which I believe it but everybody has to be anonymous? It's a super project and probably someone will be invited to talk about it. But if it's all anonymous who speaks? CfB is BCnext+Satoshi, so I understand... But the others?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think it will be impossible for the founders of a corporation to be anonymous after the incorporation. My guess is that they need to figure out some legal issues and make sure it is legal to do the fundraising on the AE first if incorporated.

We have absolutely no intention of being anonymous at all. This is a serious business venture in the real world, it's not just a asset online :)

Yes, you are right... sorry. Not so difficult to see that you are not hiding David. ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Jacinto on September 26, 2014, 06:52:35 pm

May I ask a very stupid question? Why are there projects like this which I believe it but everybody has to be anonymous? It's a super project and probably someone will be invited to talk about it. But if it's all anonymous who speaks? CfB is BCnext+Satoshi, so I understand... But the others?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm not anonymous, my real name is Sergey Ivancheglo, but I don't use it on the Internet.

I guess Google is registering a peak of searches for Sergey Ivancheglo... ;)

In fact, CfB is the opposite of anonymous since he posted photos of his last vacations with his family  :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TheWireMaster on September 26, 2014, 06:57:30 pm

May I ask a very stupid question? Why are there projects like this which I believe it but everybody has to be anonymous? It's a super project and probably someone will be invited to talk about it. But if it's all anonymous who speaks? CfB is BCnext+Satoshi, so I understand... But the others?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm not anonymous, my real name is Sergey Ivancheglo, but I don't use it on the Internet.

I guess Google is registering a peak of searches for Sergey Ivancheglo... ;)

In fact, CfB is the opposite of anonymous since he posted photos of his last vacations with his family  :D

You mean the picture in the middle of the condominium? I hope CfB improves the destination selection for the next vacation.. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Jimmy2011 on September 26, 2014, 07:07:09 pm

May I ask a very stupid question? Why are there projects like this which I believe it but everybody has to be anonymous? It's a super project and probably someone will be invited to talk about it. But if it's all anonymous who speaks? CfB is BCnext+Satoshi, so I understand... But the others?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm not anonymous, my real name is Sergey Ivancheglo, but I don't use it on the Internet.

I guess Google is registering a peak of searches for Sergey Ivancheglo... ;)

Yes, you are right. I have contributed one search.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Brangdon on September 26, 2014, 07:14:31 pm
I'm trying to persuade other founders not to exchange received NXT for BTC or USD
I can't see any point in exchanging NXT for BTC. BTC seems just as risky. It's been on a slow decline for a long while now, and good news (like from PayPal) doesn't seem to make much difference. Maybe it will turn around, but if it doesn't there's no limit to how low it could go.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Pilot on September 26, 2014, 07:18:46 pm
I'm trying to persuade other founders not to exchange received NXT for BTC or USD
I can't see any point in exchanging NXT for BTC. BTC seems just as risky. It's been on a slow decline for a long while now, and good news (like from PayPal) doesn't seem to make much difference. Maybe it will turn around, but if it doesn't there's no limit to how low it could go.

It have to double check the charts, but BTC isn't going "down and down"... it has hovered between $400 and $600 all year. Volitile, yes.

If BTC fails, that I can't see any other crypto's really jumping in here. If crypto is adopted by the masses, BTC will still be the gold standard. At least, that's my opinion.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Breasal on September 27, 2014, 05:41:32 am

May I ask a very stupid question? Why are there projects like this which I believe it but everybody has to be anonymous? It's a super project and probably someone will be invited to talk about it. But if it's all anonymous who speaks? CfB is BCnext+Satoshi, so I understand... But the others?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm not anonymous, my real name is Sergey Ivancheglo, but I don't use it on the Internet.

I guess Google is registering a peak of searches for Sergey Ivancheglo... ;)

Yes, you are right. I have contributed one search.

The only images i got were hot women and guns! lol  ;D

I suspect this Segey is NOT Cfb: http://www.ivanchenko.ua/ (different last name but worth the click  :P)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Jimmy2011 on September 27, 2014, 06:32:23 am

May I ask a very stupid question? Why are there projects like this which I believe it but everybody has to be anonymous? It's a super project and probably someone will be invited to talk about it. But if it's all anonymous who speaks? CfB is BCnext+Satoshi, so I understand... But the others?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm not anonymous, my real name is Sergey Ivancheglo, but I don't use it on the Internet.

I guess Google is registering a peak of searches for Sergey Ivancheglo... ;)

Yes, you are right. I have contributed one search.

The only images i got were hot women and guns! lol  ;D

I suspect this Segey is NOT Cfb: http://www.ivanchenko.ua/ (different last name but worth the click  :P)

She may be the ambassador of Jinn, the Ukraine girl version of Ziyi(? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Ziyi ), who was thought as the ambassador of Nxt.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TheWireMaster on September 27, 2014, 06:43:44 am
Are we getting close to the target price? :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: buybitcoinscanada on September 27, 2014, 08:04:35 am
A
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: JohnHolmes on September 27, 2014, 08:05:48 am
What is the approx cut-off price now?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 27, 2014, 08:12:54 am
What is the approx cut-off price now?

still 60 Nxt.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: JohnHolmes on September 27, 2014, 08:34:24 am
What is the approx cut-off price now?

still 60 Nxt.

Thanks, hopefully soon then if no increase in the last 24 hours!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 27, 2014, 08:46:28 am
Development update:

I have committed code that finalizes the architecture of Jinn (https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond/Jiniri). Programmers can now see how it will look.

"Statical" part of Jinn is done, it may be changed but not radically. Now I'll be working on "dynamical" part - interactions between different components.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on September 27, 2014, 09:09:05 am
PANIC BUY!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on September 27, 2014, 12:34:29 pm
I posted on a different forum a few hours ago.  It just got some reads.  Maybe some of them bought. 
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 27, 2014, 01:11:41 pm
Bottom is now 69 Nxt.  :o
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cobaltskky on September 27, 2014, 01:16:32 pm
we can haz sell ordr pls?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 27, 2014, 01:28:21 pm
we can haz sell ordr pls?

Don't worry, it will happen eventually. Maybe it has already happened while I'm writing this text. Longer you wait higher your chance to weigh advantages and disadvantages and find a better bid price.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Perado on September 27, 2014, 02:30:01 pm
I think IBM has the similar plan,whats the advantage of jinn?
What do you know about the IBM's plan(if any)?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 27, 2014, 02:32:01 pm
I think IBM has the similar plan,whats the advantage of jinn?
What do you know about the IBM's plan(if any)?

They have a different plan.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on September 27, 2014, 02:33:44 pm
IBM's plan has nothing to do with non-binary computation does it? They just want to organize the internet of things on a custom block chain. I like the idea - could be big for them.

I heard they are going to pair up with ethereum - that would be interesting. Might pick up some IBM futures  8)



I think IBM has the similar plan,whats the advantage of jinn?
What do you know about the IBM's plan(if any)?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Perado on September 27, 2014, 02:39:46 pm
IBM's plan has nothing to do with non-binary computation does it? They just want to organize the internet of things on a custom block chain. I like the idea - could be big for them.

I heard they are going to pair up with ethereum - that would be interesting. Might pick up some IBM futures  8)



I think IBM has the similar plan,whats the advantage of jinn?
What do you know about the IBM's plan(if any)?

oooh,Maybe its time to do some homework.
Will the jinn limited be a real world company or so called "company"?
If it will be a real world company then you should make your info public,right
One more question,why dont you post this ann after the jinn limited is founded?I think this have nothing to do with fund thing and will more likely to raise fund.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: profitofthegods on September 27, 2014, 03:04:49 pm
I think IBM has the similar plan,whats the advantage of jinn?
What do you know about the IBM's plan(if any)?

I think the IBM plan involves using a block chain as a public record for IoT devices to update their status, query the status of other devices, and interact with each other. I heard mention of them forking ethereum to use for part of it, presumably to use contracts for devices to interact according to fixed rules without a central controller. Its not entirely the same, but there does seem to be some crossover with this.

If I'm not wrong both systems want small devices to share a data storage and therefore be able to make decisions without a central controller. I'm really speculating here and may be way out, but perhaps Adept will have devices with their own simple rules which make decisions individually based on shared information, whereas Jinn's IoT would have devices make decisions collectively based on both shared information and shared processing?

I'd really love more information on how Jinn will work with the IoT.

EDIT: Also I don't think IBM's Adept has any hardware component, its purely a software project.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 27, 2014, 03:17:04 pm
Will the jinn limited be a real world company or so called "company"?
If it will be a real world company then you should make your info public,right

https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/(ann)-jinn/msg107889/#msg107889
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Perado on September 27, 2014, 03:18:28 pm
Will the jinn limited be a real world company or so called "company"?
If it will be a real world company then you should make your info public,right

https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/(ann)-jinn/msg107889/#msg107889

thanks for the link
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 27, 2014, 03:33:35 pm
I think the IBM plan involves using a block chain as a public record for IoT devices to update their status, query the status of other devices, and interact with each other. I heard mention of them forking ethereum to use for part of it, presumably to use contracts for devices to interact according to fixed rules without a central controller. Its not entirely the same, but there does seem to be some crossover with this.

If I'm not wrong both systems want small devices to share a data storage and therefore be able to make decisions without a central controller. I'm really speculating here and may be way out, but perhaps Adept will have devices with their own simple rules which make decisions individually based on shared information, whereas Jinn's IoT would have devices make decisions collectively based on both shared information and shared processing?

I'd really love more information on how Jinn will work with the IoT.

Blockchain technology solves 2 big problems of distributed systems - Sybil attack and consistency of data. While the former can be solved once and forever, the latter can only asymptotically approach the perfect solution, at least CAP theorem states so.

Quorum-based approach proposed in Qubic also solves these problems, but there is a big difference how the consistency is achieved. Blockchain stores all changes of the state, this is why pruning is a must if you want to have a sustainable system. Qubic stores only final state and hence doesn't need pruning.

Jinn will provide technical base for Qubic in a way that requires almost nothing to do to get Qubic completed. IoT can be created on top of Jinn in a similar manner - just write a little code and you will get it. I stole architecture of Jinn from the nature, it mimics how macro- and microcosm functions. A side effect of this "piracy" is the ability to implement a lot of things much easier than it would be done on top of classical processors.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Evan on September 27, 2014, 04:34:32 pm
Though I like the asset listed on Nxt AE, I still would like to hear your consideration why you choose Nxt AE instead of asking a real world VC for the money. ;D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: blackyblack1 on September 27, 2014, 05:17:34 pm

May I ask a very stupid question? Why are there projects like this which I believe it but everybody has to be anonymous? It's a super project and probably someone will be invited to talk about it. But if it's all anonymous who speaks? CfB is BCnext+Satoshi, so I understand... But the others?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm not anonymous, my real name is Sergey Ivancheglo, but I don't use it on the Internet.

I guess Google is registering a peak of searches for Sergey Ivancheglo... ;)

Yes, you are right. I have contributed one search.

The only images i got were hot women and guns! lol  ;D

I suspect this Segey is NOT Cfb: http://www.ivanchenko.ua/ (different last name but worth the click  :P)
This name is mostly visible on russian search. Some articles about distributed programming and gamedev.
Not sure if CfB tried making distributed software with Erlang. It looks for me as designed for IoT and without this scary ternary logic inside.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 27, 2014, 06:24:41 pm
This name is mostly visible on russian search. Some articles about distributed programming and gamedev.
Not sure if CfB tried making distributed software with Erlang. It looks for me as designed for IoT and without this scary ternary logic inside.

Erlang-based solutions hit the wall after certain threshold. This seems to be a fundamental flaw of its paradigm, because several people from independent teams working in Belarusian gamedev confirm this phenomenon and search on the Internet doesn't give a good solution.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cobaltskky on September 27, 2014, 07:06:51 pm
Anybody know the median on the bids now?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 27, 2014, 07:12:38 pm
median? first bid on 50000 assets is at 100Nxt
70Nxt is bottom at 100000 assets.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on September 27, 2014, 07:14:06 pm
Time to accept our money  ;D

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 27, 2014, 07:14:48 pm
Time to accept our money  ;D

yes, this is kinda expensive now, imo.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cobaltskky on September 27, 2014, 07:16:53 pm
Time to accept our money  ;D

yes, this is kinda expensive now, imo.

A greed.

SEE WHAT I DID THERE? lol
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 27, 2014, 07:22:29 pm
Time to accept our money  ;D

yes, this is kinda expensive now, imo.

A greed.

SEE WHAT I DID THERE? lol

To give an idea, for 70 Nxt, Jinn is approximatly valued as high as superNet at the moment (end of spuernet ICO). This make Jinn a very big crowdfunding...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cobaltskky on September 27, 2014, 07:24:07 pm
Time to accept our money  ;D

yes, this is kinda expensive now, imo.

A greed.

SEE WHAT I DID THERE? lol

To give an idea, for 70 Nxt, Jinn is approximatly valued as high as superNet at the moment (end of spuernet ICO).

With no working assets?  SuperNET has MGW at least...I believe the "onioning" thingy that James is attempting to accomplish had a success and public test this past week.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TwinWinNerD on September 27, 2014, 07:57:21 pm
Time to accept our money  ;D

yes, this is kinda expensive now, imo.

A greed.

SEE WHAT I DID THERE? lol

To give an idea, for 70 Nxt, Jinn is approximatly valued as high as superNet at the moment (end of spuernet ICO).

With no working assets?  SuperNET has MGW at least...I believe the "onioning" thingy that James is attempting to accomplish had a success and public test this past week.

It has inventory, that alone is worth the marketcap it is traded at.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Zahlen on September 27, 2014, 09:12:33 pm
This is really interesting! Some questions:

1) The FAQ mentions that ternary "gives the highest density of information representation among other integer bases". (Base 5 would be even denser than base 3, but yeah it's still denser than binary.) Will Triangle also be developing ternary storage, or will Jinn be interfacing with conventional binary storage?

2) How will you go about making the prototype Jinn? Both the circuit design and the fabrication. This seems to me the most difficult part of your plan. This breaks down into sub-questions like Who do you have in mind to design the circuits and do the fabrication? What experience do they have with making true-false-unknown logic-based circuits? And making horizontally scalable chips? And cost/resource use efficiency? (Not sure if I'm asking the right questions here, I dunno much about the prototyping process but would like to learn more. Maybe someone can refine the questions.)

3) How will you go about testing the Jinn chips? Both the prototypes and the manufactured versions.

4) If, at some point during development, funds raised from previous steps run out, what are your plans for raising additional funds?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 27, 2014, 09:35:59 pm
This is really interesting! Some questions:

1) The FAQ mentions that ternary "gives the highest density of information representation among other integer bases". (Base 5 would be even denser than base 3, but yeah it's still denser than binary.) Will Triangle also be developing ternary storage, or will Jinn be interfacing with conventional binary storage?

2) How will you go about making the prototype Jinn? Both the circuit design and the fabrication. This seems to me the most difficult part of your plan. This breaks down into sub-questions like Who do you have in mind to design the circuits and do the fabrication? What experience do they have with making true-false-unknown logic-based circuits? And making horizontally scalable chips? And cost/resource use efficiency? (Not sure if I'm asking the right questions here, I dunno much about the prototyping process but would like to learn more. Maybe someone can refine the questions.)

3) How will you go about testing the Jinn chips? Both the prototypes and the manufactured versions.

4) If, at some point during development, funds raised from previous steps run out, what are your plans for raising additional funds?

1)
Quote
In a numerical system,
the number N is given by N= Rd where R is the
radix and d is the necessary number of digits
up to the next highest integer value where
necessary. If the cost or complexity C in any
system is assumed to be proportional to R x D, then
C= k(R x d) =k[R (ln N/In R)] (2)
where k is some constant. Differentiating with
respect to R will show that for a minimum cost
C, R should be equal to e (2.718).Since in
practice R must be an integer, this suggests
that R=3(ternary) would be more economical
than R =2(binary)

2) We will hire specialists to solve this issue.

3) The same as 2)

4) It's not a technical question, I can't answer it
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Zahlen on September 27, 2014, 09:43:38 pm
Ah, I get what you mean by information 'density' now, thanks. So Jinn will still be working with binary storage then (and performing conversions as needed)?

(The 'suggests' step can be made rigourous by simply calculating 3 / log 3 < 2 / log 2, and showing than n / log n is a increasing function from 3 onwards).

Do you have any specialists in mind for 2) and 3)?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Windjc on September 27, 2014, 09:50:45 pm
Time to accept our money  ;D

yes, this is kinda expensive now, imo.

I had to bow out at 61.1

Lets see if that was a smart move.

I don't see how this won't go through a period of dumpage at some point. But maybe I'm wrong about that. In fact, I hope I am, as that will mean some crazy awesome stuff is being developed and quickly.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 28, 2014, 06:34:05 am
Do you have any specialists in mind for 2) and 3)?

If you are asking personally me, then no.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: tylergillies on September 28, 2014, 06:39:13 am
Those who say that Jinn is way overpriced now and the most risky asset, I don't agree. Look at what SuperNET did as far as funding goes. It's no less riskier than Jinn. Either both of them are risky and overpriced, or neither of them are. I guess we have to wait for a few months to find out.

Really?
Supernet is backed by assets.
Jinn is not.
You can´t compare them.

To value this project at 2,5mio$ is insane. I know they need funding. They really do, but 60 NXT per share is insane.

I wouldn't really call those assets. To me both SuperNET and Jinn are about the same high risk, as both projects essentially rely on one person's vision (James for SuperNET, CfB for Jinn) with a lot of spots that investors don't comprehend, not to mention other risks. But you are free to have your own view on them. I'll shut up now or someone will say I am spreading FUD :)

SuperNet is not just backed by James vision. Money talks. Bullshit walks. I invest in James because he has proven to make money hand over fist on multiple assets.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: blackyblack1 on September 28, 2014, 07:05:49 am
This is really interesting! Some questions:

1) The FAQ mentions that ternary "gives the highest density of information representation among other integer bases". (Base 5 would be even denser than base 3, but yeah it's still denser than binary.) Will Triangle also be developing ternary storage, or will Jinn be interfacing with conventional binary storage?

2) How will you go about making the prototype Jinn? Both the circuit design and the fabrication. This seems to me the most difficult part of your plan. This breaks down into sub-questions like Who do you have in mind to design the circuits and do the fabrication? What experience do they have with making true-false-unknown logic-based circuits? And making horizontally scalable chips? And cost/resource use efficiency? (Not sure if I'm asking the right questions here, I dunno much about the prototyping process but would like to learn more. Maybe someone can refine the questions.)

3) How will you go about testing the Jinn chips? Both the prototypes and the manufactured versions.

4) If, at some point during development, funds raised from previous steps run out, what are your plans for raising additional funds?
There are some contracting ASIC manufacturers. Chip can be designed and emulated with Verilog-like tools. But ASIC manufacturing process is very expensive and takes a lot of time.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on September 28, 2014, 07:58:26 am
A high bidder for 5000 just cancelled his order.  Price remains at 70 but has 5000 more 70s to go through than a little while ago.   
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Brangdon on September 28, 2014, 09:40:13 am
Erlang-based solutions hit the wall after certain threshold. This seems to be a fundamental flaw of its paradigm, because several people from independent teams working in Belarusian gamedev confirm this phenomenon and search on the Internet doesn't give a good solution.
Is that because it isn't ternary, or is there more going on? How important is ternary to what you are doing? My intuition is that the increase in storage density would have a fairly marginal effect, and not worth the hassle. If you dropped the ternary thing, what difference would it make?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Zahlen on September 28, 2014, 10:36:13 am
Do you have any specialists in mind for 2) and 3)?

If you are asking personally me, then no.

There are some contracting ASIC manufacturers. Chip can be designed and emulated with Verilog-like tools. But ASIC manufacturing process is very expensive and takes a lot of time.

Thanks for the replies. But it sounds like Jinn will be much harder to design, manufacture and test than ASICs, or even GPUs. These are focused on fairly specific tasks like computing hashes or matrix multiplication, I reckon you can reuse (and incrementally improve on) old designs and testing methods. So I'm not sure most ASIC manufacturers will be up to the task.

There are actual ternary logic computing devices from decades ago, and there's a lot of research on ternary (and other) logics. So the expertise exists, but the practice may be dated. Also, current message passing approaches for multiple processors incur a lot of overheads and don't scale well, Jinn will need a different approach (maybe something like packet routing, I read something about this a while ago but don't have a link).

(I'm not speaking as someone in the industry, all this is from just Google and general computing knowledge, so maybe I'm wrong about some stuff.)


Right now this key step of the project feels too unknown and risky for me, so I'll have to sit out for now :) I'd feel a lot more confident about investing once you find/attract the expertise. If existing manufacturing and testing tools can't be easily adapted, it'll also take more time and $ to develop the toolchain.

But this is really, really cool! Best wishes to Triangle, and I'll keep checking in to the project from time to time.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: valarmg on September 28, 2014, 10:54:56 am
Do you have any specialists in mind for 2) and 3)?

If you are asking personally me, then no.

There are some contracting ASIC manufacturers. Chip can be designed and emulated with Verilog-like tools. But ASIC manufacturing process is very expensive and takes a lot of time.

Thanks for the replies. But it sounds like Jinn will be much harder to design, manufacture and test than ASICs, or even GPUs. These are focused on fairly specific tasks like computing hashes or matrix multiplication, I reckon you can reuse (and incrementally improve on) old designs and testing methods. So I'm not sure most ASIC manufacturers will be up to the task.

There are actual ternary logic computing devices from decades ago, and there's a lot of research on ternary (and other) logics. So the expertise exists, but the practice may be dated. Also, current message passing approaches for multiple processors incur a lot of overheads and don't scale well, Jinn will need a different approach (maybe something like packet routing, I read something about this a while ago but don't have a link).

(I'm not speaking as someone in the industry, all this is from just Google and general computing knowledge, so maybe I'm wrong about some stuff.)

I worked in IC design for many years, and I think it's close to impossible for ternary logic devices to get near to competing with binary design within any kind of reasonable timeframe even with infinite resources.

But Come-from-Beyond mentioned running their ternary logic initially on binary-based ICs, and long term creating wholly ternary designs on optical chips which seems more possible (though I don't know much about optical device design.)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 28, 2014, 11:24:49 am
Is that because it isn't ternary, or is there more going on? How important is ternary to what you are doing? My intuition is that the increase in storage density would have a fairly marginal effect, and not worth the hassle. If you dropped the ternary thing, what difference would it make?

I don't know what causes the problem in Erlang, ternary has nothing to do with it. Jinn can be binary and still be very valuable, but it doesn't make much sense to create new architecture on base of obsolete technology. Binary will become obsolete right after optical computers hit the market.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 28, 2014, 12:03:32 pm
But it sounds like Jinn will be much harder to design, manufacture and test than ASICs, or even GPUs. These are focused on fairly specific tasks like computing hashes or matrix multiplication...

Jinn doesn't need to support legacy instruction sets and it will require much lower number of logic gates. After the instruction set is ready you will see that it's very simple (https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond/Jiniri/tree/master/Java/src/cfb/jiniri/operation) (3 opcodes only, 1 trit is enough to encode it). I can't say how many elements will be required for a single core, but I suspect it will be near the same as Bitcoin ASICs have, because architecture of Jinn mimics fractals - simple components form sophisticated structures.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on September 28, 2014, 12:10:36 pm
seems that the 100k'th bid is going down atm.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 28, 2014, 12:13:04 pm
I worked in IC design for many years, and I think it's close to impossible for ternary logic devices to get near to competing with binary design within any kind of reasonable timeframe even with infinite resources.

Different authors studying ternary ALUs state that ternary-based processors are easier to design because lower number of elements is needed. For example, a quote from http://www.ijera.com/papers/Vol2_issue2/JL2215911596.pdf:
Quote
The proposed ternary design offers most important
advantage that is it has very low power dissipation relative to
conventional circuits and that lead to significant reductions in
propagation delay.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on September 28, 2014, 01:16:36 pm
seems that the 100k'th bid is going down atm.

It is bouncing up and down the 70 walls, but more bounces down today than up. 
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: valarmg on September 28, 2014, 01:29:21 pm
I worked in IC design for many years, and I think it's close to impossible for ternary logic devices to get near to competing with binary design within any kind of reasonable timeframe even with infinite resources.

Different authors studying ternary ALUs state that ternary-based processors are easier to design because lower number of elements is needed. For example, a quote from http://www.ijera.com/papers/Vol2_issue2/JL2215911596.pdf:
Quote
The proposed ternary design offers most important
advantage that is it has very low power dissipation relative to
conventional circuits and that lead to significant reductions in
propagation delay.

Much better designs in that paper than the last one. Looks promising, but I wouldn't trust university papers too much for this type of thing, they often ignore factors that make designs unusable in practice.

One of the biggest issues is that the whole expertise/process/tools (tools can be super expensive in CMOS design, 1million for a license sometimes) is set up for digital binary design. For a ternary design, lots of designs would have to be done transistor by transistor, where for a binary, it would just be a matter of writing a few lines of Verilog (a low level programming language). So ternary would need huge natural advantages to overcome all the disadvantages in having to design everything by hand. (To use an analogy: Say a complicated program could be 50% more efficient if written in assembly, it would still often make more sense to write it in a higher level language rather than finding super-expert assembly writers and giving them the years it would take to write it all in assembly.)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 28, 2014, 01:40:40 pm
Looks promising, but I wouldn't trust university papers too much for this type of thing, they often ignore factors that make designs unusable in practice.

This is very true. Luckily, Jinn is mainly about distributed computing, not about ternary. So even a failure to create a truly ternary chip doesn't mean a failure of the project.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 28, 2014, 03:55:40 pm
Fire that sell order already, it won't get any better than this ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on September 28, 2014, 04:00:12 pm
I get the sense they are waiting to hit 100Nxt
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 28, 2014, 04:30:53 pm
I get the sense they are waiting to hit 100Nxt

Well, I won't be getting any share at that price...  :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Arpeggio on September 28, 2014, 06:44:56 pm
The investors are showing extreme resistance at 70. I believe most had it at 50 but they are absolutely stretching it at 70 and are doing so unhappily. Bitcoin price is dropping fast and is making things worse for Jinn's funding. If you want to hit the dollar amount you had in mind you need to offer a bigger piece to the investors.

If the bottom never gets above 70 what will you do? Give in at 70? Then Jinn fails eventually because your funding ran out at a crucial point. Now you own 90% of nothing. In order to get this properly funded and give it a chance, you can lower the target price and offer 5-10% more assets and you will meet your funding goal and still own 85-80% of a successful company. Is what I'm saying not logical?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 28, 2014, 07:29:42 pm
Fire that sell order already, it won't get any better than this ;)

You should understand that the goal of this offer is to get enough money for funding of the initial stage. I don't see much sense to fire the order just because "it won't get any better than this". I (personally) prefer not to sell the tokens at all and search for another way of funding than to get some money and fail because of lack of funds.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TwinWinNerD on September 28, 2014, 07:47:40 pm
Fire that sell order already, it won't get any better than this ;)

You should understand that the goal of this offer is to get enough money for funding of the initial stage. I don't see much sense to fire the order just because "it won't get any better than this". I (personally) prefer not to sell the tokens at all and search for another way of funding than to get some money and fail because of lack of funds.

I don't wanna offend someone, but there is an obvious solotion to the problem of too little raised funds here ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 28, 2014, 07:48:41 pm
I don't wanna offend someone, but there is an obvious solotion to the problem of too little raised funds here ;)

What is it?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TwinWinNerD on September 28, 2014, 07:56:22 pm
Increasing the sold units a few % higher.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 28, 2014, 08:01:11 pm
I get the sense they are waiting to hit 100Nxt

If that is the case, they can still sell at the price of 100 Nxt at this moment. They will sell 68k tokens at once and leave the rest of 32k on the AE for sale. The risk and uncertainty is that they don't know when the 32k will be sold. Maybe they can make an arrangement to sell the 32k to James' NxtVenture.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 28, 2014, 08:19:45 pm
If that is the case, they can still sell at the price of 100 Nxt at this moment. They will sell 68k tokens at once and leave the rest of 32k on the AE for sale. The risk and uncertainty is that they don't know when the 32k will be sold. Maybe they can make an arrangement to sell the 32k to James' NxtVenture.

We could sell 68k at 100 NXT for 6.8M total. Or 100k at 70 NXT for 7M total. The difference is not very big, just 200'000 NXT...

Edit: While I was writing this a new order was placed and we can get 7M by selling 100k @70 or 70k @100.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Canaanite on September 28, 2014, 08:23:17 pm
Increasing the sold units a few % higher.

+1
10% is ridiculously low and putting your venture at unrealistic valuation.
yeah there will always be people who will get it at any price but people who know what investing is are staying out of it;
when you raise seed funding you should expect giving away between 25% to 40% of your venture.

There are quite a lot of crowd funding platforms for startups worldwide and I keep seeing entrepreneurs over-valuing their own venture and give too little equity. it only succeeds if they have a huge hype behind them but I know not to get into it.

edit : When I also value the risk of investing through the Asset Exchange when the people that are actually Pseudonym I would expect of having nice compensation for the risk I'm taking  8)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 28, 2014, 08:25:10 pm
If that is the case, they can still sell at the price of 100 Nxt at this moment. They will sell 68k tokens at once and leave the rest of 32k on the AE for sale. The risk and uncertainty is that they don't know when the 32k will be sold. Maybe they can make an arrangement to sell the 32k to James' NxtVenture.

We could sell 68k at 100 NXT for 6.8M total. Or 100k at 70 NXT for 7M total. The difference is not very big, just 200'000 NXT...

Edit: While I was writing this a new order was placed and we can get 7M by selling 100k @70 or 70k @100.

Hmm, thanks for the tips. I think 100Nxt is bottom now.  :D

I won't be getting any share then.  :(
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 28, 2014, 08:29:38 pm
Increasing the sold units a few % higher.

+1
10% is ridiculously low and putting your venture at unrealistic valuation.

I have an opposite point of view, 70 NXT gives unrealistic valuation because in 2 months when Jiniri is completed it could be worth much more than 70M NXT. 10% is shared with the community almost for free, because history of Nxt already showed that it's better to have a whole community involved instead of doing everything alone because of greed. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Canaanite on September 28, 2014, 08:32:06 pm
Increasing the sold units a few % higher.

+1
10% is ridiculously low and putting your venture at unrealistic valuation.

I have an opposite point of view, 70 NXT gives unrealistic valuation because in 2 months when Jiniri is completed it could be worth much more than 70M NXT. 10% is shared with the community almost for free, because history of Nxt already showed that it's better to have a whole community involved instead of doing everything alone because of greed. :)

In that case you guys are raising funds at the wrong time; I always tell startups its better to raise funds after they have a product... they can get much better valuations
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 28, 2014, 08:34:16 pm
In that case you guys are raising funds at the wrong time; I always tell startups its better to raise funds after they have a product... they can get much better valuations

What the point to raise funds if a product is ready?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Canaanite on September 28, 2014, 08:36:53 pm
Quote
What the point to raise funds if a product is ready?
developing the product (R&D) takes only a small portion of the funding; there is a long path ahead of you
I do believe that using the NXT community is a smart idea to kickstart your venture

edit : that's especially true when the product is a code
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: whatheactualfuck on September 28, 2014, 08:40:02 pm
Quote
What the point to raise funds if a product is ready?
developing the product (R&D) takes only a small portion of the funding; there is a long path ahead of you
I do believe that using the NXT community is a smart idea to kickstart your venture

edit : that's especially true when the product is a code

This is wrong in most startups. There's a reason it's called a seeding round. Where 10% is actually very generous for the current sum offered.
Also product is not only code, it's a physical processor.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Canaanite on September 28, 2014, 08:46:04 pm
Quote
What the point to raise funds if a product is ready?
developing the product (R&D) takes only a small portion of the funding; there is a long path ahead of you
I do believe that using the NXT community is a smart idea to kickstart your venture

edit : that's especially true when the product is a code

This is wrong in most startups. There's a reason it's called a seeding round. Where 10% is actually very generous for the current sum offered.
Also product is not only code, it's a physical processor.

Bottom line in this case I see high risk with not enough compensation (plus I don't like the dutch auction)
that's just my view at it, other people might view it differently

I really believe in the people behind the project, I think its cool idea(and I asked my friend to check the github out), but for now the product is too expensive for me.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 28, 2014, 08:46:26 pm
We could sell 68k at 100 NXT for 6.8M total. Or 100k at 70 NXT for 7M total. The difference is not very big, just 200'000 NXT...
Edit: While I was writing this a new order was placed and we can get 7M by selling 100k @70 or 70k @100.

Maybe you can sell the 70k at 100 NXT now and leave the rest of the 30k on the AE. I believe they will be sold very quick because the progress is coming very soon.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 28, 2014, 08:48:34 pm
Maybe you can sell the 70k at 100 NXT now and leave the rest of the 30k on the AE. I believe they will be sold very quick because the progress is coming very soon.

The point is to share 10% and get some money. Your proposal doesn't look fair for investors.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 28, 2014, 08:49:30 pm
Quote
What the point to raise funds if a product is ready?
developing the product (R&D) takes only a small portion of the funding; there is a long path ahead of you
I do believe that using the NXT community is a smart idea to kickstart your venture

edit : that's especially true when the product is a code

This is wrong in most startups. There's a reason it's called a seeding round. Where 10% is actually very generous for the current sum offered.
Also product is not only code, it's a physical processor.

Bottom line in this case I see high risk with not enough compensation (plus I don't like the dutch auction)
that's just my view at it, other people might view it differently

I really believe in the people behind the project, I think its cool product (and I asked my friend to check the github out), but for now the product is too expensive for me.

That's a fair position to take. We've already explained why we use the unorthodox, but more democratic Dutch Auction model.


It's great to have your support regardless of whether we sell at the price you got a bid in at or not :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Berry on September 28, 2014, 08:49:42 pm
If that is the case, they can still sell at the price of 100 Nxt at this moment. They will sell 68k tokens at once and leave the rest of 32k on the AE for sale. The risk and uncertainty is that they don't know when the 32k will be sold. Maybe they can make an arrangement to sell the 32k to James' NxtVenture.

We could sell 68k at 100 NXT for 6.8M total. Or 100k at 70 NXT for 7M total. The difference is not very big, just 200'000 NXT...

Edit: While I was writing this a new order was placed and we can get 7M by selling 100k @70 or 70k @100.


Do you really think about closing this and selling only 70k shares @ 100?
You will piss off a lot of people if you are going to break your word.
You offered an auction of 100k shares, you can´t change this amount during the process.
I hope you were just joking. So no offense
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: profitofthegods on September 28, 2014, 08:59:35 pm
Quote
What the point to raise funds if a product is ready?
developing the product (R&D) takes only a small portion of the funding; there is a long path ahead of you
I do believe that using the NXT community is a smart idea to kickstart your venture

edit : that's especially true when the product is a code

This is wrong in most startups. There's a reason it's called a seeding round. Where 10% is actually very generous for the current sum offered.
Also product is not only code, it's a physical processor.

I'm not yet convinced they have the first clue how to make the physical processor.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on September 28, 2014, 09:03:33 pm
Maybe you can sell the 70k at 100 NXT now and leave the rest of the 30k on the AE. I believe they will be sold very quick because the progress is coming very soon.
The point is to share 10% and get some money. Your proposal doesn't look fair for investors.

My proposal is still 10% to offer to the public. 10% is the deal you guys have announced and better not change it.

You also can pick a lower price such as 80 NXT or 90Nxt to leave less tokens to sell on AE if they can reach your goal. My point is that if you leave some tokens to sell on AE they will be gone very quick.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 28, 2014, 09:12:25 pm
Do you really think about closing this and selling only 70k shares @ 100?
You will piss off a lot of people if you are going to break your word.
You offered an auction of 100k shares, you can´t change this amount during the process.
I hope you were just joking. So no offense

I already explained my position upthread:
Maybe you can sell the 70k at 100 NXT now and leave the rest of the 30k on the AE. I believe they will be sold very quick because the progress is coming very soon.

The point is to share 10% and get some money. Your proposal doesn't look fair for investors.

The only problem is that I don't decide such things.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 28, 2014, 09:12:37 pm
@whatheactualfuck
just curious, are you a s*ck puppet?  ::)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 28, 2014, 09:15:46 pm
@whatheactualfuck
just curious, are you a s*ck puppet?  ::)

Not a sockpuppet, it was a post by me (David). I made that account about a month ago due to not being able to login to my regular account. Then I just forgot about it being logged into that in my internet explorer. (usually use Chrome) So I posted it unknowingly from that account until CfB asked me on Skype if that post was by me. Which is why I quoted it and continued the conversation from this account. Sorry for the confusion.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: curve25519 on September 28, 2014, 09:18:39 pm
bump...
imo, answer will tell if valuation is too high or too low.
The website say "1/5th of the remaining assets will be handed over (and allowed to be sold) to the founders (Come-from-Beyond, David, Wesley) after Jiniri Limited is completed. 1/4th of the remaining assets to the same people after Jiniri Unlimited is completed and the proof-of-concept game is released. 1/3th - after Jinn is designed. 1/2th - after Jinn prototypes manufactured. And the remaining assets will be handed over after the very first Jinn processors are sold."

Case 1
*All* expenses for r&d from now until “first Jinn processor is sold” will be funded by money from this 10% ipo and remaining assets (900,000) will be handed over to founders for them to sell as their personal reward.

Case 2
The 900,000 remaining assets will be handed to founders to sell to raise more money until “first Jinn processor is sold”. Balance will be reward for founders.

pls explain which one is true?

If Case 2 is true, please give estimated amount you budget to sell for dev until “first Jinn processor is sold”. TQ
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 28, 2014, 09:21:58 pm
Bitcoin is free-falling and NXT/USD declining too, I'm not sure it's a good idea to place the ask order...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: a7594li on September 29, 2014, 12:29:21 am
Bitcoin is free-falling and NXT/USD declining too, I'm not sure it's a good idea to place the ask order...
I don't think now is not a good time,In fact, a lot of people want to get cheap,Maybe you can set a cut-off time.And let more people know..
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: FunBot on September 29, 2014, 12:34:48 am
If you decide to wait for weeks/months before executing the dutch auction, will you notify the investors?

I'd dislike to have funds bound up in a bid order for such an extended period.

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: humbot on September 29, 2014, 04:58:21 am
Bitcoin is free-falling and NXT/USD declining too, I'm not sure it's a good idea to place the ask order...

Shortsighted? I thought this price variation was taken into account based on the prospectus/earlier comments. You know bitcoin has a floor price at cost of production. Either price goes up with increased difficulty/cost or it is a failed experiment. If failed exp. then similar fate for other cryptos (excluding those like Ripple that partner with banks or financial institutions). Easy to estimate when bitcoin price should rise based on calculated timing of difficulty/cost increase - so could hold funds if not needed immediately.

If indecision based on ethics (we said we would do this) vs greed (we want more money) then your decision to make. Always more opportunities in the future, especially if you maintain a good reputation and deliver on the early timeline for the proof-of-concept game.

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on September 29, 2014, 05:00:52 am
Bitcoin is free-falling and NXT/USD declining too, I'm not sure it's a good idea to place the ask order...

Shortsighted? I thought this price variation was taken into account based on the prospectus/earlier comments. You know bitcoin has a floor price at cost of production. Either price goes up with increased difficulty/cost or it is a failed experiment. If failed exp. then similar fate for other cryptos (excluding those like Ripple that partner with banks or financial institutions). Easy to estimate when bitcoin price should rise based on calculated timing of difficulty/cost increase - so could hold funds if not needed immediately.

If indecision based on ethics (we said we would do this) vs greed (we want more money) then your decision to make. Always more opportunities in the future, especially if you maintain a good reputation and deliver on the early timeline for the proof-of-concept game.


Bitcoin is already below the cost of production:
https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=4418.msg109016#msg109016

If Bitcoin fails, it doesn't mean failure for other cryptos, PoS cryptos' economic model is different from Bitcoin's, there is no reason for them to fail if PoW does.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TheWireMaster on September 29, 2014, 05:20:51 am

If Bitcoin fails, it doesn't mean failure for other cryptos, PoS cryptos' economic model is different from Bitcoin's, there is no reason for them to fail if PoW does.
+1
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 29, 2014, 05:29:07 am
If you decide to wait for weeks/months before executing the dutch auction, will you notify the investors?

I'd dislike to have funds bound up in a bid order for such an extended period.


As you know, we wont disclose details. But I can tell you that the clock has been ticking for awhile already. We wanted everyone to get the time to read up and ask questions as well as let a build wall come up. I can tell you that it's measured in hours (note: this could still mean days), not weeks.

We already got people prepared that will be on payroll and we got a lot we want to set in motion ASAP that will take funds, so yea tic toc...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 29, 2014, 06:15:06 am
Shortsighted? I thought this price variation was taken into account based on the prospectus/earlier comments.

What price? 50$ for 1 BTC? Obviously not.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TheWireMaster on September 29, 2014, 07:13:38 am

Shortsighted? I thought this price variation was taken into account based on the prospectus/earlier comments.

What price? 50$ for 1 BTC? Obviously not.

Not sure BTC will come back to values we have seen in the past... Unfortunately.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: achim on September 29, 2014, 08:18:59 am
Easy to estimate when bitcoin price should rise based on calculated timing of difficulty/cost increase - so could hold funds if not needed immediately.

I don't see any correlation between difficulty and price (anymore). Price is falling, hashrate is rising. Not so easy to estimate.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: profitofthegods on September 29, 2014, 08:25:38 am
Easy to estimate when bitcoin price should rise based on calculated timing of difficulty/cost increase - so could hold funds if not needed immediately.

I don't see any correlation between difficulty and price (anymore). Price is falling, hashrate is rising. Not so easy to estimate.

I think this is right. If enough people mine for fun or just to be part of the network without being concerned about immediate profitability then the link is broken.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TheWireMaster on September 29, 2014, 08:26:43 am
Easy to estimate when bitcoin price should rise based on calculated timing of difficulty/cost increase - so could hold funds if not needed immediately.

I don't see any correlation between difficulty and price (anymore). Price is falling, hashrate is rising. Not so easy to estimate.

Me neither. Most of the money into Bitcoin, I guess, are not coming from miners.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on September 29, 2014, 08:44:56 am
The lower the bitcoin price, the more bitcoins miners have to dump on exchanges to pay electricity. Seems to be a negative feedback.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: achim on September 29, 2014, 08:49:25 am
The lower the bitcoin price, the more bitcoins miners have to dump on exchanges to pay electricity. Seems to be a negative feedback.

This, plus building mining farms is lagging behind the price movement. Hashrate will eventually decrease, but later.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: humbot on September 29, 2014, 12:58:41 pm
Shortsighted? I thought this price variation was taken into account based on the prospectus/earlier comments.

What price? 50$ for 1 BTC? Obviously not.

Step back, look at it objectively and redo the costings and risk assessment if necessary.

My last post in this thread as the previous post derailed the conversation - back to discussing Jinn (hopefully). Good luck with the project.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 29, 2014, 07:04:50 pm
Due to the time consuming nature and magnitude of the project, Wesley has made the hard choice to step down because he feels that it would be unfair to investors to have a lead developer (Wesley) that cannot commit 100% to the project.
His future tasks in the venture had not yet been initiated, so this will not affect the project going forth at all. We greatly thank Wesley for his contribution to the project and being there since the inception. He will still be a part of Triangle, so it's not like we are saying good bye.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on September 29, 2014, 07:07:09 pm
Due to the time consuming nature and magnitude of the project, Wesley has made the hard choice to step down because he feels that it would be unfair to investors to have a lead developer (Wesley) that cannot commit 100% to the project.
His future tasks in the venture had not yet been initiated, so this will not affect the project going forth at all. We greatly thank Wesley for his contribution to the project and being there since the inception. He will still be a part of Triangle, so it's not like we are saying good bye.

Whos the replacement dev, if any?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 29, 2014, 07:09:35 pm
Due to the time consuming nature and magnitude of the project, Wesley has made the hard choice to step down because he feels that it would be unfair to investors to have a lead developer (Wesley) that cannot commit 100% to the project.
His future tasks in the venture had not yet been initiated, so this will not affect the project going forth at all. We greatly thank Wesley for his contribution to the project and being there since the inception. He will still be a part of Triangle, so it's not like we are saying good bye.

Whos the replacement dev, if any?

We got some replacement candidates up for interviews and more info on this will come later, but it's not going to hinder anything in terms of development. On the contrary it will speed things up as we will now have someone who is 100% dedicated full time.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: JohnHolmes on September 30, 2014, 01:34:55 am
Due to the time consuming nature and magnitude of the project, Wesley has made the hard choice to step down because he feels that it would be unfair to investors to have a lead developer (Wesley) that cannot commit 100% to the project.
His future tasks in the venture had not yet been initiated, so this will not affect the project going forth at all. We greatly thank Wesley for his contribution to the project and being there since the inception. He will still be a part of Triangle, so it's not like we are saying good bye.

Could Wesley make a comment about this? His involvement added a lot to this project, so it would be good to hear him confirm his reasons for changing his level of involvement. Always good to get things from the horse's mouth.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on September 30, 2014, 02:13:14 am
i thought the whole process of dutch auction was to provide a fair value to sell for all investors and to prevent dumps.

if you guys wanted to sell only after a certain amount, why didn't you just place sell orders at such price.

like another guy said currently nxt's price and supply is not ready to support huge markets.

....... Either NXT is not ready for funding such large scale projects yet or projects need to start small with less funding and grow with NXT, in fiat market cap, that is.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 30, 2014, 03:25:17 am
i thought the whole process of dutch auction was to provide a fair value to sell for all investors and to prevent dumps.

if you guys wanted to sell only after a certain amount, why didn't you just place sell orders at such price.

like another guy said currently nxt's price and supply is not ready to support huge markets.

....... Either NXT is not ready for funding such large scale projects yet or projects need to start small with less funding and grow with NXT, in fiat market cap, that is.

Yes, that is still the motivation for choosing Dutch Auction, but of course we have a certain ballpark number. This is a project months in the making, we know quite accurately what we need in terms of funding. The market naturally decides in the end :)

The bid wall shows us that NXT is ready to support these kinds of projects.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on September 30, 2014, 03:26:58 am
Due to the time consuming nature and magnitude of the project, Wesley has made the hard choice to step down because he feels that it would be unfair to investors to have a lead developer (Wesley) that cannot commit 100% to the project.
His future tasks in the venture had not yet been initiated, so this will not affect the project going forth at all. We greatly thank Wesley for his contribution to the project and being there since the inception. He will still be a part of Triangle, so it's not like we are saying good bye.

Could Wesley make a comment about this? His involvement added a lot to this project, so it would be good to hear him confirm his reasons for changing his level of involvement. Always good to get things from the horse's mouth.

I would also like to hear it from Wesley.  I would like to say this news worries me a bit.  It seemed like things were all planned out very well, and now not so much.  I am not sure how his role as a founder and important 1/3 wasn't clearly discussed from the start and completely agreed upon by everyone before starting this thread and asking for money. 

I got priced out of my bid before this announcement and now because other people dropped out, I am priced back in.  (I have a bid for 17 shares at 70.9)  I am happy to be back in, but also worried a bit.  It would be nice to have clarity on this.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 30, 2014, 03:32:42 am
Due to the time consuming nature and magnitude of the project, Wesley has made the hard choice to step down because he feels that it would be unfair to investors to have a lead developer (Wesley) that cannot commit 100% to the project.
His future tasks in the venture had not yet been initiated, so this will not affect the project going forth at all. We greatly thank Wesley for his contribution to the project and being there since the inception. He will still be a part of Triangle, so it's not like we are saying good bye.

Could Wesley make a comment about this? His involvement added a lot to this project, so it would be good to hear him confirm his reasons for changing his level of involvement. Always good to get things from the horse's mouth.

I would also like to hear it from Wesley.  I would like to say this news worries me a bit.  It seemed like things were all planned out very well, and now not so much.  I am not sure how his role as a founder and important 1/3 wasn't clearly discussed from the start and completely agreed upon by everyone before starting this thread and asking for money. 

I got priced out of my bid before this announcement and now because other people dropped out, I am priced back in.  (I have a bid for 17 shares at 70.9)  I am happy to be back in, but also worried a bit.  It would be nice to have clarity on this.

I will ask him to post an update when he comes on. The project has been planned out, but Wesley's part is front-end development, which we're first starting on now. This is why the decision was made by him to step down now, as to prevent any delays. As you may have noticed, he has not had the time to post in this thread even, he is simply very busy with the NXT Client and other duties, including real life job.
But he's still collaborating in NxtOrganization and Triangle, so if we need his advisory help on anything, we'll just hire him for specific tasks instead.
To be sure: nothing changes in terms of Jinn roadmap. On the contrary this speeds the project up and relieves him of the stress. A project of this significance simply cannot afford to have the risk of one member not being able to deliver on time and/or burning out from workload.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on September 30, 2014, 04:15:58 am
I will ask him to post an update when he comes on. The project has been planned out, but Wesley's part is front-end development, which we're first starting on now. This is why the decision was made by him to step down now, as to prevent any delays. As you may have noticed, he has not had the time to post in this thread even, he is simply very busy with the NXT Client and other duties, including real life job.
But he's still collaborating in NxtOrganization and Triangle, so if we need his advisory help on anything, we'll just hire him for specific tasks instead.
To be sure: nothing changes in terms of Jinn roadmap. On the contrary this speeds the project up and relieves him of the stress. A project of this significance simply cannot afford to have the risk of one member not being able to deliver on time and/or burning out from workload.

I do believe it is a very interesting project and if it works, it will be pretty amazing. 

I don't really know much on the technical side.  And from what I read, what you are trying to do is kind of crazy impossible and a complete technical revolution.  If CfB wasn't involved, I wouldn't have even read the thread twice.  But I read his posts from years ago, and visited the Qubic website long ago while it was live.  I know he has been thinking about this a long long time.  And while it seems to be impossible to me (Making a new way computers operate and new hardware too!) CfB has a history of people calling scam on him and people saying it was impossible and then he actually delivers.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on September 30, 2014, 04:20:07 am
I will ask him to post an update when he comes on. The project has been planned out, but Wesley's part is front-end development, which we're first starting on now. This is why the decision was made by him to step down now, as to prevent any delays. As you may have noticed, he has not had the time to post in this thread even, he is simply very busy with the NXT Client and other duties, including real life job.
But he's still collaborating in NxtOrganization and Triangle, so if we need his advisory help on anything, we'll just hire him for specific tasks instead.
To be sure: nothing changes in terms of Jinn roadmap. On the contrary this speeds the project up and relieves him of the stress. A project of this significance simply cannot afford to have the risk of one member not being able to deliver on time and/or burning out from workload.

I do believe it is a very interesting project and if it works, it will be pretty amazing. 

I don't really know much on the technical side.  And from what I read, what you are trying to do is kind of crazy impossible and a complete technical revolution.  If CfB wasn't involved, I wouldn't have even read the thread twice.  But I read his posts from years ago, and visited the Qubic website long ago while it was live.  I know he has been thinking about this a long long time.  And while it seems to be impossible to me (Making a new way computers operate and new hardware too!) CfB has a history of people calling scam on him and people saying it was impossible and then he actually delivers.


Indeed! And while it is indeed nothing short of revolutionary in terms of processors, it isn't impossible at all. We're already talking to some pretty significant figures in CompSci that has shown interest in the project and the academic papers are open for everyone to read. This isn't crackpot science, this is the real deal and thankfully so is CfB! :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: achim on September 30, 2014, 09:25:57 am
I don't really know much on the technical side.  And from what I read, what you are trying to do is kind of crazy impossible and a complete technical revolution.  I

Ternary processors have been built in the past, I don't doubt that it is technically possible today, maybe much more efficient than this:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setun
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rlh on September 30, 2014, 11:24:31 am
I don't really know much on the technical side.  And from what I read, what you are trying to do is kind of crazy impossible and a complete technical revolution.  I

Ternary processors have been built in the past, I don't doubt that it is technically possible today, maybe much more efficient than this:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setun

The problem with ternary systems isn't technical, it's application.

If an application were to arise that could deeply benefit from ternary logic, while make it easy (relatively speaking) to follow a pathway from binary architecture, to ternary architecture AND if it were profitable, this could "easily" be done.

There are probably plenty of applications that could easily be redesigned to benefit from this architecture but there is currently no profitable pathway to the transition.  Ergo, we remain stagnant with development on this front of computing.

I think CfB & Jinn Labs are trying to create a profitable application that can be used to push computers (or, at least many specialized applications) toward the path of ternary logic.  This is legitimately the most interesting project that I've seen come from the crypto community and I am hoping for wild success for all of you.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: blackyblack1 on September 30, 2014, 11:53:56 am
I don't really know much on the technical side.  And from what I read, what you are trying to do is kind of crazy impossible and a complete technical revolution.  I

Ternary processors have been built in the past, I don't doubt that it is technically possible today, maybe much more efficient than this:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setun

The problem with ternary systems isn't technical, it's application.

If an application were to arise that could deeply benefit from ternary logic, while make it easy (relatively speaking) to follow a pathway from binary architecture, to ternary architecture AND if it were profitable, this could "easily" be done.

There are probably plenty of applications that could easily be redesigned to benefit from this architecture but there is currently no profitable pathway to the transition.  Ergo, we remain stagnant with development on this front of computing.

I think CfB & Jinn Labs are trying to create a profitable application that can be used to push computers (or, at least many specialized applications) toward the path of ternary logic.  This is legitimately the most interesting project that I've seen come from the crypto community and I am hoping for wild success for all of you.
They are compiling to the Jinn assembler from javascript language. So for the programmer the ternary stuff it won't be even visible.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Berry on September 30, 2014, 03:34:54 pm


Pice of 70 NXT didn´t move since days.  And now? Maybe 5% more shares?  ???
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Jimmy2011 on September 30, 2014, 04:59:50 pm
BCT link please? very interesting project!... but I think the outcome (of project and ipo) is going to be binary, not ternary.
Biggest breakthrough or biggest scam. Dunno which yet  ???

Ternary is still possible if only part of the goals are reached. You forget that Jiniri itself will be a useable product.

You are going to develop Jiniri Limited and Unlimited versions. I'm wondering how much they different from each other. Are they very alike and can be done together? If yes, it means you will work out both versions in November,  and you can deliver them at the same time if the team won't consider the business. Of course, you will release the limited version disabled most functions in November, and then release the unlimited version after PoC game is done. On the other hand, the investors may think that the unlimited multi nodes version is more difficult to develop and it is the first risk of the project.

From the website, we know that one of the revenue sources is Jiniri unlimited license.  It implied Jiniri multi node emulator can work better even under the regular binary computer cluster, and it has greater speedup factor than the regular distributed computing based on MPI, right?

The last question is about who will need to get the license. Take MMO game for example, say Lith want to collaborate with Jiniri, will Lith development team/company get the license from Triangle, or the end game users need to get the license from Triangle?

Thanks.

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on September 30, 2014, 05:42:35 pm
You are going to develop Jiniri Limited and Unlimited versions. I'm wondering how much they different from each other. Are they very alike and can be done together? If yes, it means you will work out both versions in November,  and you can deliver them at the same time if the team won't consider the business. Of course, you will release the limited version disabled most functions in November, and then release the unlimited version after PoC game is done. On the other hand, the investors may think that the unlimited multi nodes version is more difficult to develop and it is the first risk of the project.

Unlimited version is more difficult to develop.


From the website, we know that one of the revenue sources is Jiniri unlimited license.  It implied Jiniri multi node emulator can work better even under the regular binary computer cluster, and it has greater speedup factor than the regular distributed computing based on MPI, right?

Jiniri Unlimited may work slower on conventional binary equipment, without tests it's hard to say anything for sure. MPI is run natively while Jiniri Unlimited is emulated, on the other hand architecture of Jinn provides simplier communication (comparing to MPI).


The last question is about who will need to get the license. Take MMO game for example, say Lith want to collaborate with Jiniri, will Lith development team/company get the license from Triangle, or the end game users need to get the license from Triangle?

The game operator. It can be the developer or the players. It's the one who hosts game servers.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on October 01, 2014, 01:34:06 am


Pice of 70 NXT didn´t move since days.  And now? Maybe 5% more shares?  ???

It is still 70
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on October 01, 2014, 02:49:12 am


Pice of 70 NXT didn´t move since days.  And now? Maybe 5% more shares?  ???

It is still 70

Clock is certainly tic tic ticking. Just keep a close eye the sell happens in the near future, some more news will come soon too.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: JohnHolmes on October 01, 2014, 03:17:22 am


Pice of 70 NXT didn´t move since days.  And now? Maybe 5% more shares?  ???

It is still 70

Clock is certainly tic tic ticking. Just keep a close eye the sell happens in the near future, some more news will come soon too.

I hope wesley posts before you close. Can you confirm you wont close until we hear from him?

I suspect all is well, but just in case I for one would like to hear from wesley before I purchase. I'll be blunt, there is a chance wesley is pulling out for a reason other than his busy schedule, and if that is the case I think future investors should know his thoughts.

Most politicians who retire earlier than expected cite 'family or health reasons', but that's usually a cover story for something else. If wesley is dropping out for another reason other than his time commitment I'd like to know why. He's obviously under no obligation to say anything, but if that's the case then a 'no comment' from wesley would be significant information for potential investors to digest.

I hope you understand my point. I do not want to sound critical of your project, I just want to understand the landscape fully before I invest.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on October 01, 2014, 03:26:29 am


Pice of 70 NXT didn´t move since days.  And now? Maybe 5% more shares?  ???

It is still 70

Clock is certainly tic tic ticking. Just keep a close eye the sell happens in the near future, some more news will come soon too.

I hope wesley posts before you close. Can you confirm you wont close until we hear from him?

I suspect all is well, but just in case I for one would like to hear from wesley before I purchase. I'll be blunt, there is a chance wesley is pulling out for a reason other than his busy schedule, and if that is the case I think future investors should know his thoughts.

Most politicians who retire earlier than expected cite 'family or health reasons', but that's usually a cover story for something else. If wesley is dropping out for another reason other than his time commitment I'd like to know why. He's obviously under no obligation to say anything, but if that's the case then a 'no comment' from wesley would be significant information for potential investors to digest.

I hope you understand my point. I do not want to sound critical of your project, I just want to understand the landscape fully before I invest.

Of course, me and CfB already discussed this. Obviously Wes's departure is purely due to time constraint as we have said, but we understand that everyone wants to be 100% sure when making an investment.  Anyone present in any of the NXT Group chats can confirm this too, he is simply that busy these days. He's not even present on Skype. I have told him to make a statement, so he will do that once he has the time to check his skype.

Other than that all is going as planned and Wesley's tasks is being taken care of :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: EFFV on October 01, 2014, 03:28:09 am


Pice of 70 NXT didn´t move since days.  And now? Maybe 5% more shares?  ???

It is still 70

Clock is certainly tic tic ticking. Just keep a close eye the sell happens in the near future, some more news will come soon too.

I hope wesley posts before you close. Can you confirm you wont close until we hear from him?

I suspect all is well, but just in case I for one would like to hear from wesley before I purchase. I'll be blunt, there is a chance wesley is pulling out for a reason other than his busy schedule, and if that is the case I think future investors should know his thoughts.

Most politicians who retire earlier than expected cite 'family or health reasons', but that's usually a cover story for something else. If wesley is dropping out for another reason other than his time commitment I'd like to know why. He's obviously under no obligation to say anything, but if that's the case then a 'no comment' from wesley would be significant information for potential investors to digest.

I hope you understand my point. I do not want to sound critical of your project, I just want to understand the landscape fully before I invest.

I would like to hear from Wesley as well.

When you say the price is 70, where are you getting that number? What is the best block explorer for assets?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: JohnHolmes on October 01, 2014, 03:36:48 am


Pice of 70 NXT didn´t move since days.  And now? Maybe 5% more shares?  ???

It is still 70

Clock is certainly tic tic ticking. Just keep a close eye the sell happens in the near future, some more news will come soon too.

I hope wesley posts before you close. Can you confirm you wont close until we hear from him?

I suspect all is well, but just in case I for one would like to hear from wesley before I purchase. I'll be blunt, there is a chance wesley is pulling out for a reason other than his busy schedule, and if that is the case I think future investors should know his thoughts.

Most politicians who retire earlier than expected cite 'family or health reasons', but that's usually a cover story for something else. If wesley is dropping out for another reason other than his time commitment I'd like to know why. He's obviously under no obligation to say anything, but if that's the case then a 'no comment' from wesley would be significant information for potential investors to digest.

I hope you understand my point. I do not want to sound critical of your project, I just want to understand the landscape fully before I invest.

Of course, me and CfB already discussed this. Obviously Wes's departure is purely due to time constraint as we have said, but we understand that everyone wants to be 100% sure when making an investment.  Anyone present in any of the NXT Group chats can confirm this too, he is simply that busy these days. He's not even present on Skype. I have told him to make a statement, so he will do that once he has the time to check his skype.

Other than that all is going as planned and Wesley's tasks is being taken care of :)

Thank you for that response. I was not aware there was a skype group chat where these things are discussed more publicly. That is more reassuring.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: LiQio on October 01, 2014, 04:08:33 am
When you say the price is 70, where are you getting that number?

e.g. here:

http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=4000&switch=10&id=3061160746493230502&p=1
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Jimmy2011 on October 01, 2014, 05:03:36 am
You are going to develop Jiniri Limited and Unlimited versions. I'm wondering how much they different from each other. Are they very alike and can be done together? If yes, it means you will work out both versions in November,  and you can deliver them at the same time if the team won't consider the business. Of course, you will release the limited version disabled most functions in November, and then release the unlimited version after PoC game is done. On the other hand, the investors may think that the unlimited multi nodes version is more difficult to develop and it is the first risk of the project.

Unlimited version is more difficult to develop.


From the website, we know that one of the revenue sources is Jiniri unlimited license.  It implied Jiniri multi node emulator can work better even under the regular binary computer cluster, and it has greater speedup factor than the regular distributed computing based on MPI, right?

Jiniri Unlimited may work slower on conventional binary equipment, without tests it's hard to say anything for sure. MPI is run natively while Jiniri Unlimited is emulated, on the other hand architecture of Jinn provides simplier communication (comparing to MPI).


The last question is about who will need to get the license. Take MMO game for example, say Lith want to collaborate with Jiniri, will Lith development team/company get the license from Triangle, or the end game users need to get the license from Triangle?

The game operator. It can be the developer or the players. It's the one who hosts game servers.

Thank you CfB for your quick reply.

Jiniri Unlimited may work slower on conventional binary equipment. If it is the true case after test is done, and say further if the later Jinn processor fail, is there any other reasons that we need to use Jiniri Unlimited? Will it be very convenient for coding, developing for MMO game and other application?  Is Jiniri Unlimited the valuable product from the business point of view? Of course it has theoretical, academic value.

Sorry for my risk consideration.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 01, 2014, 06:06:36 am
Thank you CfB for your quick reply.

Jiniri Unlimited may work slower on conventional binary equipment. If it is the true case after test is done, and say further if the later Jinn processor fail, is there any other reasons that we need to use Jiniri Unlimited? Will it be very convenient for coding, developing for MMO game and other application?  Is Jiniri Unlimited the valuable product from the business point of view? Of course it has theoretical, academic value.

Sorry for my risk consideration.

Jiniri Unlimited will be a complete solution of back-end for MMO-games. Yes, JU is a valuable product.

A binary distributed processor is extremely useful for a lot of uses (including my opus magnum), while a ternary processor that is only able to calculate 2+2 locally is quite useless. We are aiming for a ternary distributed processor of course, but our priority is to create a useful product that will solve a real problem and generate profits.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: wesley on October 01, 2014, 06:44:04 am
I just wanted to confirm that I stepped down due to workload and time shortage, there are no other reasons. I still believe in this project.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: JohnHolmes on October 01, 2014, 07:02:58 am
I just wanted to confirm that I stepped down due to workload and time shortage, there are no other reasons. I still believe in this project.

Thank you for posting wesley!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on October 01, 2014, 11:30:35 am
I just wanted to confirm that I stepped down due to workload and time shortage, there are no other reasons. I still believe in this project.

Thank you for posting wesley!

Annnnnnnnnd the price just went up
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on October 01, 2014, 12:06:58 pm
I just wanted to confirm that I stepped down due to workload and time shortage, there are no other reasons. I still believe in this project.

Thank you for posting wesley!

Annnnnnnnnd the price just went up

yep 75 now and no ask order.

See you at the 100 mark :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Fatih87SK on October 01, 2014, 12:09:52 pm
I don't understand how this auction works. Can anyone enlighten me in two sentences?

I see a buy order of 5 pieces for 900 NXT  ???
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Lordoftherigs on October 01, 2014, 12:10:53 pm
Are you going to sell all 100k shares in one go or will you only sell amount of shares that corresponds to your desired bid ?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on October 01, 2014, 12:14:21 pm
100k shares will be sold at the price of the 100k th bid.

e.g. if you bid 100 shares at 150 NXT and the ask is at 100, you will obtain 100 shares at 100 NXT
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: LiQio on October 01, 2014, 12:16:32 pm
Are you going to sell all 100k shares in one go or will you only sell amount of shares that corresponds to your desired bid ?

I think this
...
This means that the chunk of 100,000 assets will be sold at once against the ladder of bid orders.
...
implicates that they plan to sell the full amount - otherwise it would have to say "up to" 100'000 assets will be sold.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Fatih87SK on October 01, 2014, 12:20:11 pm
100k shares will be sold at the price of the 100k th bid.

e.g. if you bid 100 shares at 150 NXT and the ask is at 100, you will obtain 100 shares at 100 NXT

Ok, so I have to sum up the buy orders up to 100.000 to obtain Jinn Asset at a reasonable price.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: martismartis on October 01, 2014, 12:22:10 pm
100k shares will be sold at the price of the 100k th bid.

e.g. if you bid 100 shares at 150 NXT and the ask is at 100, you will obtain 100 shares at 100 NXT

Ok, so I have to sum up the buy orders up to 100.000 to obtain Jinn Asset at a reasonable price.

This show with what price you could enter the ship :)
http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=4000&switch=10&id=3061160746493230502&p=1
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Fatih87SK on October 01, 2014, 12:49:50 pm
100k shares will be sold at the price of the 100k th bid.

e.g. if you bid 100 shares at 150 NXT and the ask is at 100, you will obtain 100 shares at 100 NXT

Ok, so I have to sum up the buy orders up to 100.000 to obtain Jinn Asset at a reasonable price.

This show with what price you could enter the ship :)
http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=4000&switch=10&id=3061160746493230502&p=1

I searched a bit, but then I found it; "accum. Shares"

Awesome! Thanks!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Jimmy2011 on October 01, 2014, 12:52:21 pm
I don't understand how this auction works. Can anyone enlighten me in two sentences?

I see a buy order of 5 pieces for 900 NXT  ???

One sentence goes as following:

The issuer will dump 100K assets at a single tx with a price maximization of his gain in the condition that all those 100K assets will be eaten by those bids according to Nxt AE system trade rule.

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 01, 2014, 02:09:45 pm
Development update:

The "dynamical" part has been completed. Theoretically, now Jiniri is able to run Jinn-compatible programs written in Java. Practically, there should be bugs (there are no programs without bugs :) ). My next task is testing, bug fixing and polishing. I'm going to write the comments for the code also.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Fatih87SK on October 01, 2014, 02:28:35 pm
I am sure this has been asked already but I'm too lazy to check out every page;

What will happen to the other 90% percent of the assets?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Lordoftherigs on October 01, 2014, 02:29:54 pm
I am sure this has been asked already but I'm too lazy to check out every page;

What will happen to the other 90% percent of the assets?


The remaining 90% of the total Jinn shares will be locked in and reserved for project development. We will not be issuing any more assets until we reach our set goals as outlined below, nor will anyone in the Jinn team be allowed to sell their assets until these goals are reached as follows:

1/5th of the remaining assets will be handed over (and allowed to be sold) to the founders (Come-from-Beyond, David, Wesley) after Jiniri Limited is completed. 1/4th of the remaining assets to the same people after Jiniri Unlimited is completed and the proof-of-concept game is released. 1/3th - after Jinn is designed. 1/2th - after Jinn prototypes manufactured. And the remaining assets will be handed over after the very first Jinn processors are sold.


http://www.jinnlabs.com/
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Jimmy2011 on October 01, 2014, 02:30:54 pm
Development update:

The "dynamical" part has been completed. Theoretically, now Jiniri is able to run Jinn-compatible programs written in Java. Practically, there should be bugs (there are no programs without bugs :) ). My next task is testing, bug fixing and polishing. I'm going to write the comments for the code also.

Is it Jiniri Limited or Jiniri Unlimited? I hope it is JU :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Jimmy2011 on October 01, 2014, 02:36:52 pm
I am sure this has been asked already but I'm too lazy to check out every page;

What will happen to the other 90% percent of the assets?


The remaining 90% of the total Jinn shares will be locked in and reserved for project development. We will not be issuing any more assets until we reach our set goals as outlined below, nor will anyone in the Jinn team be allowed to sell their assets until these goals are reached as follows:

1/5th of the remaining assets will be handed over (and allowed to be sold) to the founders (Come-from-Beyond, David, Wesley) after Jiniri Limited is completed. 1/4th of the remaining assets to the same people after Jiniri Unlimited is completed and the proof-of-concept game is released. 1/3th - after Jinn is designed. 1/2th - after Jinn prototypes manufactured. And the remaining assets will be handed over after the very first Jinn processors are sold.


http://www.jinnlabs.com/

I would like to summarize as following. Is it right?

Sep. ~ Oct. 2014,   IPO                               10%
Nov. ~ Dec. 2014,  Jiniri Limited                  18%
Q1. 2015               Jiniri Unltd, PoC Game     18%
Q3. 2015               Jiniri Prototype                18%
Q4. 2015               Jinn launch(TapeOut?)     18%
Q2. 2016               Jinn sale                         18%

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cobaltskky on October 01, 2014, 02:47:45 pm
Can we just buy this stuff already? Lol
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 01, 2014, 03:00:18 pm
Is it Jiniri Limited or Jiniri Unlimited? I hope it is JU :)

It's JL. JU source code won't be published.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Pilot on October 01, 2014, 03:13:06 pm
Can we just buy this stuff already? Lol

That "Take My Money" meme needed here. ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: sv3n on October 01, 2014, 04:21:26 pm
I've done the math now several times, and I'm pretty convinced that the AE will match the ask and bid price to the actual ask and bid offer. I sold mgwBTC for 13750 even though the bid was for 13800, and I checked the buying account and it bought it for 13750, not 13800. Pretty sure there will not be a need to refund NXT which should make this Dutch auction a lot easier.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on October 01, 2014, 05:00:27 pm
I've done the math now several times, and I'm pretty convinced that the AE will match the ask and bid price to the actual ask and bid offer. I sold mgwBTC for 13750 even though the bid was for 13800, and I checked the buying account and it bought it for 13750, not 13800. Pretty sure there will not be a need to refund NXT which should make this Dutch auction a lot easier.

You are right. I did not realize it before. It makes the whole process look much better.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: sv3n on October 01, 2014, 05:02:51 pm
I've done the math now several times, and I'm pretty convinced that the AE will match the ask and bid price to the actual ask and bid offer. I sold mgwBTC for 13750 even though the bid was for 13800, and I checked the buying account and it bought it for 13750, not 13800. Pretty sure there will not be a need to refund NXT which should make this Dutch auction a lot easier.

You are right. I did not realized it before. It makes the whole process much better.
Yeah, I don't think anyone did. There were a lot of confident posts (including mine :( ) that were sure it was bids always pay the bid price. You can never underestimate the power of "Trust but verify"!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 01, 2014, 05:21:49 pm
Yeah, I don't think anyone did. There were a lot of confident posts (including mine :( ) that were sure it was bids always pay the bid price. You can never underestimate the power of "Trust but verify"!

Check your numbers again, please. Asset Exchange will match orders at the price of the order that was placed earlier. In our case everyone will get different prices and refunds will be required.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TwinWinNerD on October 01, 2014, 05:23:54 pm
I've done the math now several times, and I'm pretty convinced that the AE will match the ask and bid price to the actual ask and bid offer. I sold mgwBTC for 13750 even though the bid was for 13800, and I checked the buying account and it bought it for 13750, not 13800. Pretty sure there will not be a need to refund NXT which should make this Dutch auction a lot easier.

I am 99% sure that the order that was placed first determines that price.

So in the case of Jinn, the BID prices will determine the trade price.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on October 01, 2014, 05:23:58 pm


I've done the math now several times, and I'm pretty convinced that the AE will match the ask and bid price to the actual ask and bid offer. I sold mgwBTC for 13750 even though the bid was for 13800, and I checked the buying account and it bought it for 13750, not 13800. Pretty sure there will not be a need to refund NXT which should make this Dutch auction a lot easier.

You are right. I did not realize it before. It makes the whole process look much better.

You are right about how the ae fills orders but a refund still has to be done after. If they place the sell order at 60 nxt, the guys that have buy orders for 500 still pay 500 and still need to refunded the 440 they overpaid.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on October 01, 2014, 05:27:58 pm
I've done the math now several times, and I'm pretty convinced that the AE will match the ask and bid price to the actual ask and bid offer. I sold mgwBTC for 13750 even though the bid was for 13800, and I checked the buying account and it bought it for 13750, not 13800. Pretty sure there will not be a need to refund NXT which should make this Dutch auction a lot easier.

I am 99% sure that the order that was placed first determines that price.

So in the case of Jinn, the BID prices will determine the trade price.

Well I hope it is like that... otherwise, we have a problem.  ::)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: sv3n on October 01, 2014, 05:27:58 pm


I've done the math now several times, and I'm pretty convinced that the AE will match the ask and bid price to the actual ask and bid offer. I sold mgwBTC for 13750 even though the bid was for 13800, and I checked the buying account and it bought it for 13750, not 13800. Pretty sure there will not be a need to refund NXT which should make this Dutch auction a lot easier.

I am 99% sure that the order that was placed first determines that price.

So in the case of Jinn, the BID prices will determine the trade price.

That would explain it since my order was first. Does it matter when it fills two different orders with a single bid?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: sv3n on October 01, 2014, 05:31:35 pm
Most explanations I have seen have stated bids explicitly pay out the bid value. I know that that's not true, but if it's based on the order of the offers, then that explains why the bid on my order didn't pay out higher, but in this case we would still need refunds.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TwinWinNerD on October 01, 2014, 05:37:50 pm


I've done the math now several times, and I'm pretty convinced that the AE will match the ask and bid price to the actual ask and bid offer. I sold mgwBTC for 13750 even though the bid was for 13800, and I checked the buying account and it bought it for 13750, not 13800. Pretty sure there will not be a need to refund NXT which should make this Dutch auction a lot easier.

I am 99% sure that the order that was placed first determines that price.

So in the case of Jinn, the BID prices will determine the trade price.

That would explain it since my order was first. Does it matter when it fills two different orders with a single bid?

No, it is completely irrelevant how many orders there are. The first order always sets the price.

There is one usecase I am not sure about though.

Lets say someone submits an Ask order @ 50
Anohterone submits a Bid order @ 55 in the same block

Is the price now 50 or 55? IS the lower ID number relevant again?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 01, 2014, 05:39:52 pm
IS the lower ID number relevant again?

Yes.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TwinWinNerD on October 01, 2014, 05:51:42 pm
IS the lower ID number relevant again?

Yes.

Thank you.

BTW I like your style of answering questions: Short and precise.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 01, 2014, 06:19:15 pm
This will be the repository for Abracadabra compiler - https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond/Abra.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on October 01, 2014, 08:02:54 pm
@CfB or Triangle,
Finally, will there be a very large buying wall after the selling (full amount plus time decreasing as fund is need, as CfB suggested earlier).
Because, this possibility alone, if positive, would make me put a higher bid. Otherwise, i'm not in at the moment.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 01, 2014, 08:05:45 pm
@CfB or Triangle,
Finally, will there be a very large buying wall after the selling (full amount plus time decreasing as fund is need, as CfB suggested earlier).
Because, this possibility alone, if positive, would make me put a higher bid. Otherwise, i'm not in at the moment.

I withdrew the suggestion because it would lead to a serious problem. Check my posts upthread.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on October 01, 2014, 08:10:30 pm
After thinking more about my suggestion I saw a serious problem. Someone could troll this "IPO" by paying high price and then selling the tokens back. My suggestion would lead to an artificially high price and lack of funding, which would slow the growth and ruin it for real "investors". So I withdraw it.

Ok, make sense.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on October 01, 2014, 08:27:55 pm
got it @ 85 !!!!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on October 01, 2014, 08:30:31 pm
.... everybody is dead or what ???
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: buybitcoinscanada on October 01, 2014, 08:31:00 pm
A
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on October 01, 2014, 08:31:06 pm
got it @ 85 !!!!

youra lucky guy ;-)))
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on October 01, 2014, 08:33:04 pm
got it @ 85 !!!!

youra lucky guy ;-)))

my bid was at 101, wasn't confartable going to bed  while the other bids were rising quickly.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: buybitcoinscanada on October 01, 2014, 08:34:23 pm
A
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on October 01, 2014, 08:35:04 pm
The auction is officially over!
We sold 100,000 Jinn assets at 85NXT/Jinn for a total of 8,500,000 NXT.

The refunds will be be processed tomorrow, it's quite a few transfers and due to it having to be done manually it will take a few hours, but you can expect to have your excess funds tomorrow night.

Thanks to everyone  who participated in this auction! We are looking forward to this project with all of you. And for everyone that didn't get their bids accepted / put in bid too late: don't despair, there will be plenty of ways to collaborate with this project.

More news and updates will come tomorrow.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Berry on October 01, 2014, 08:35:57 pm
This auction is the worst fucking bullshit ever.

You executed right at the moment I changed my bids to a higher level, and no I got none. 
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on October 01, 2014, 08:36:38 pm
 8)

Best of luck to the team... make us proud!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on October 01, 2014, 08:37:02 pm
got it @ 85 !!!!

youra lucky guy ;-)))

my bid was at 101, wasn't confartable going to bed  while the other bids were rising quickly.

how many you ordered and how many you got?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: buybitcoinscanada on October 01, 2014, 08:38:30 pm
A
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on October 01, 2014, 08:38:55 pm
got it @ 85 !!!!

youra lucky guy ;-)))

my bid was at 101, wasn't confartable going to bed  while the other bids were rising quickly.

how many you ordered and how many you got?

I ordered X and got X ^^
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on October 01, 2014, 08:41:20 pm
I had something weird happen.  I had canceled one open order and placed another one at the same time, both were waiting for confirmations.  Auction was executed, I received all of my new open order and half of the canceled order.  So received a lot more Jinn than expected.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on October 01, 2014, 08:41:29 pm
got it @ 85 !!!!

youra lucky guy ;-)))

my bid was at 101, wasn't confartable going to bed  while the other bids were rising quickly.

how many you ordered and how many you got?

I ordered X and got X ^^

all right, so everything is fine ~ congrats!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 01, 2014, 08:41:57 pm
This auction is the worst fucking bullshit ever.

You executed right at the moment I changed my bids to a higher level, and no I got none.

That was a "long" block with 48% difficulty, blame forgers.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on October 01, 2014, 08:42:43 pm
I had something weird happen.  I had canceled one open order and placed another one at the same time, both were waiting for confirmations.  Auction was executed, I received all of my new open order and half of the canceled order.  So received a lot more Jinn than expected.

This should investigated. Did you put your bid at 85?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Berry on October 01, 2014, 08:43:16 pm
This auction is the worst fucking bullshit ever.

You executed right at the moment I changed my bids to a higher level, and no I got none.

That's the danger of setting your bid too low.


That´s why I wanted to change it from 90 to 105.

What a mess. There will never a correct launch. One bullshit after the other in fucking cryptoland. Don´t matter ICO, IPO, Asset exchange. Fucking duch auction. It is always the same bullshit. No wonder fucking cryptos will never go mainstream.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on October 01, 2014, 08:44:51 pm
I had something weird happen.  I had canceled one open order and placed another one at the same time, both were waiting for confirmations.  Auction was executed, I received all of my new open order and half of the canceled order.  So received a lot more Jinn than expected.

I don't always place a new order in a Dutch auction, but when I do, I cancel the old order first and wait for confirmation :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on October 01, 2014, 08:45:03 pm
I had something weird happen.  I had canceled one open order and placed another one at the same time, both were waiting for confirmations.  Auction was executed, I received all of my new open order and half of the canceled order.  So received a lot more Jinn than expected.

bug report to jean-luc ...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on October 01, 2014, 08:45:16 pm
I had something weird happen.  I had canceled one open order and placed another one at the same time, both were waiting for confirmations.  Auction was executed, I received all of my new open order and half of the canceled order.  So received a lot more Jinn than expected.

Hmm very weird. We definitely have to look into that. If you've ended up with more than you wanted, perhaps you can do some trading with Berry who missed out?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Berry on October 01, 2014, 08:45:41 pm
This auction is the worst fucking bullshit ever.

You executed right at the moment I changed my bids to a higher level, and no I got none.

That was a "long" block with 48% difficulty, blame forgers.

Blame NXT technology, and developers that put a fucking Dutch Auction out. One mess after the other.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: buybitcoinscanada on October 01, 2014, 08:46:03 pm
A
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on October 01, 2014, 08:47:44 pm
I had something weird happen.  I had canceled one open order and placed another one at the same time, both were waiting for confirmations.  Auction was executed, I received all of my new open order and half of the canceled order.  So received a lot more Jinn than expected.

I don't always place a new order in a Dutch auction, but when I do, I cancel the old order first and wait for confirmation :)


;-))) where is the guy with beer bottle pic?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 01, 2014, 08:48:49 pm
I had something weird happen.  I had canceled one open order and placed another one at the same time, both were waiting for confirmations.  Auction was executed, I received all of my new open order and half of the canceled order.  So received a lot more Jinn than expected.

It's a normal behavior for transactions in the same block.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on October 01, 2014, 08:49:53 pm

I got some excess somehow, I was also in between a canceled order so not sure what happened, but I will sell you some at 85, how much did you want?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on October 01, 2014, 08:51:28 pm
This auction is the worst fucking bullshit ever.
You executed right at the moment I changed my bids to a higher level, and no I got none.

Someone is selling the tokens at 90 Nxt on the AE right now. go ahead and grab some. they are cheaper than your bid price.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on October 01, 2014, 08:51:32 pm
I had something weird happen.  I had canceled one open order and placed another one at the same time, both were waiting for confirmations.  Auction was executed, I received all of my new open order and half of the canceled order.  So received a lot more Jinn than expected.

It's a normal behavior for transactions in the same block.

please, can you explain it a little more?
is it about number of nodes see the same transaction during block creation?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on October 01, 2014, 08:51:48 pm
This auction is the worst fucking bullshit ever.

You executed right at the moment I changed my bids to a higher level, and no I got none.

That was a "long" block with 48% difficulty, blame forgers.

Blame NXT technology, and developers that put a fucking Dutch Auction out. One mess after the other.

Listen, you missed out in a very lame way. Everyone can understand that sort of frustration, but blaming NXT or Jinn is just plain wrong.

Did NXT AE make you change your bid? No, you made that choice on your own.
Did we do anything other than exactly what we said we were going to do? No.

So conclusion: NXT works as it should and we did exactly what we said we were going to do.

If you act nice, perhaps Msin will sell his excess to you
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Pilot on October 01, 2014, 08:51:54 pm
So, $200k US was your nut?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 01, 2014, 08:53:13 pm
Blame NXT technology, and developers that put a fucking Dutch Auction out. One mess after the other.

This precisely shows what the problem Jinn is aimed to solve - Consistency of Data in Distributed Systems.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: buybitcoinscanada on October 01, 2014, 08:53:18 pm
A
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Fatih87SK on October 01, 2014, 08:53:56 pm
100k shares will be sold at the price of the 100k th bid.

e.g. if you bid 100 shares at 150 NXT and the ask is at 100, you will obtain 100 shares at 100 NXT

Ok, so I have to sum up the buy orders up to 100.000 to obtain Jinn Asset at a reasonable price.

This show with what price you could enter the ship :)
http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=4000&switch=10&id=3061160746493230502&p=1

I searched a bit, but then I found it; "accum. Shares"

Awesome! Thanks!

Could buy some share thanks to your link.

I put up a buy order at 90.5 and it was sold quite fast. I'm very lucky =)

So, thanks again.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Berry on October 01, 2014, 08:54:06 pm

I got some excess somehow, I was also in between a canceled order so not sure what happened, but I will sell you some at 85, how much did you want?

Maybe we can do it, but I was putting a buy order out, and I can´t cancel it, it´s pending since ever. I don´t know if it was excuted, or will....... I´ll get right back to you if I know more.


Edit: Sorry was excuted at 90. But thanks. I think if you put a sell order out, it will be bought quite fast
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 01, 2014, 08:56:39 pm
please, can you explain it a little more?
is it about number of nodes see the same transaction during block creation?

The following happened (according to the order set by the transaction ids):

1. New bid order placed
2. Ask order placed
3. Old bid order cancelled (if there was anything left)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: martismartis on October 01, 2014, 08:57:47 pm
100k shares will be sold at the price of the 100k th bid.

e.g. if you bid 100 shares at 150 NXT and the ask is at 100, you will obtain 100 shares at 100 NXT

Ok, so I have to sum up the buy orders up to 100.000 to obtain Jinn Asset at a reasonable price.

This show with what price you could enter the ship :)
http://nxtexplorer.com/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=4000&switch=10&id=3061160746493230502&p=1

I searched a bit, but then I found it; "accum. Shares"

Awesome! Thanks!

Could buy some share thanks to your link.

I put up a buy order at 90.5 and it was sold quite fast. I'm very lucky =)

So, thanks again.

Cheers :) I missed this auction myself :) What a luck :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on October 01, 2014, 08:58:06 pm

I got some excess somehow, I was also in between a canceled order so not sure what happened, but I will sell you some at 85, how much did you want?

Maybe we can do it, but I was putting a buy order out, and I can´t cancel it, it´s pending since ever. I don´t know if it was excuted, or will....... I´ll get right back to you if I know more.


Edit: Sorry was excuted at 90. But thanks. I think if you put a sell order out, it will be bought quite fast

No worries, this is one Asset I don't mind having excess shares in.   :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cobaltskky on October 01, 2014, 09:09:14 pm

I got some excess somehow, I was also in between a canceled order so not sure what happened, but I will sell you some at 85, how much did you want?

Maybe we can do it, but I was putting a buy order out, and I can´t cancel it, it´s pending since ever. I don´t know if it was excuted, or will....... I´ll get right back to you if I know more.


Edit: Sorry was excuted at 90. But thanks. I think if you put a sell order out, it will be bought quite fast

No worries, this is one Asset I don't mind having excess shares in.   :)

Awesome!  I have no idea what my bids were at.  I think they were above, since they were all executed.  Will I get a refund for the difference now?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on October 01, 2014, 09:11:19 pm
not now, bur tomorrow
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Berry on October 01, 2014, 09:12:40 pm
This auction is the worst fucking bullshit ever.

You executed right at the moment I changed my bids to a higher level, and no I got none.

That was a "long" block with 48% difficulty, blame forgers.

Blame NXT technology, and developers that put a fucking Dutch Auction out. One mess after the other.

Listen, you missed out in a very lame way. Everyone can understand that sort of frustration, but blaming NXT or Jinn is just plain wrong.

Did NXT AE make you change your bid? No, you made that choice on your own.
Did we do anything other than exactly what we said we were going to do? No.

So conclusion: NXT works as it should and we did exactly what we said we were going to do.

If you act nice, perhaps Msin will sell his excess to you

Listen, NXT blocks took forever as you executed your Dutch Auction.  I was waiting forever. Understand?

But I don´t mind. But this technology is not ready for auctions. The whole network got paused due to one sell order.

But yes I was really pissed at this moment, caused I watched this auction 10 time a day. I was frustrated, but I shouldn´t have exploded. Sorry. Go ahead and good luck with the development.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on October 01, 2014, 09:15:58 pm

Awesome!  I have no idea what my bids were at.  I think they were above, since they were all executed.  Will I get a refund for the difference now?

Great :)
We'll refund everyone's difference tomorrow!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cobaltskky on October 01, 2014, 09:17:28 pm

Awesome!  I have no idea what my bids were at.  I think they were above, since they were all executed.  Will I get a refund for the difference now?

Great :)
We'll refund everyone's difference tomorrow!

Thanks for putting up the sell order!  I'm so happy that I got Jinn, that I'm going to fall asleep tonight cuddling these assets. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on October 01, 2014, 09:22:04 pm
Jinn should be put on CMC, it is a good asset to be list there I think.
Will you working on getting list your asset?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on October 01, 2014, 09:29:34 pm
Jinn should be put on CMC, it is a good asset to be list there I think.
Will you working on getting list your asset?

Agreed, also worth having a BTT page if you don't have one already, I know there are several people there that would be interested in Jinn.  Although they may find distribution to be unfair. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 01, 2014, 09:42:43 pm
But this technology is not ready for auctions. The whole network got paused due to one sell order.

You are wrong. It was not the sell order that paused the network. Just a big difficulty to forge that block.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on October 01, 2014, 09:45:22 pm
Listen, NXT blocks took forever as you executed your Dutch Auction.  I was waiting forever. Understand?

But I don´t mind. But this technology is not ready for auctions. The whole network got paused due to one sell order.

But yes I was really pissed at this moment, caused I watched this auction 10 time a day. I was frustrated, but I shouldn´t have exploded. Sorry. Go ahead and good luck with the development.

Sometimes it's good not to write down everything that comes in your head when you are frustrated or angry.  My Mom taught me that.  :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on October 01, 2014, 10:10:18 pm
Listen, NXT blocks took forever as you executed your Dutch Auction.  I was waiting forever. Understand?

But I don´t mind. But this technology is not ready for auctions. The whole network got paused due to one sell order.

But yes I was really pissed at this moment, caused I watched this auction 10 time a day. I was frustrated, but I shouldn´t have exploded. Sorry. Go ahead and good luck with the development.

Sometimes it's good not to write down everything that comes in your head when you are frustrated or angry.  My Mom taught me that.  :)

lol :D

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJ9ds8GPtFLrGiJ345nP-27T-WfhZMw7rSg4PRAYO9u0m4LRppAg)

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: EFFV on October 01, 2014, 10:35:46 pm

Awesome!  I have no idea what my bids were at.  I think they were above, since they were all executed.  Will I get a refund for the difference now?

Great :)
We'll refund everyone's difference tomorrow!

Thanks I got a good amount.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on October 01, 2014, 10:45:32 pm
The auction is officially over!
We sold 100,000 Jinn assets at 85NXT/Jinn for a total of 8,500,000 NXT.

The refunds will be be processed tomorrow, it's quite a few transfers and due to it having to be done manually it will take a few hours, but you can expect to have your excess funds tomorrow night.

Congrats for the well done Dutch auction! I guess the hardest part for this kind Aution is the manually refunding work. I can see the merits of it. It is more democratic and the price Of the asset has increased after the auction. I think it will be getting popular on the AE for serious ICOs.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on October 01, 2014, 11:40:10 pm
Is it possible to make this asset to be available on Bter to trade?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: spaw on October 01, 2014, 11:43:50 pm
+1
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on October 02, 2014, 12:52:32 am
Jinn should be put on CMC, it is a good asset to be list there I think.
Will you working on getting list your asset?

I PMed Gliss - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=61526 to request it.

He is the admin of CMC. You all are welcome to PM him to request adding Jinn on the list.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on October 02, 2014, 01:08:23 am
IS the lower ID number relevant again?

Yes.

does this means those vanity short nxt numeric id actually are worth something now?  ;D

btw: we really should get this successful auction out into some crypto news sites. it is as big as the supernet right? need some nice spot lights.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TwinWinNerD on October 02, 2014, 01:17:55 am
IS the lower ID number relevant again?

Yes.

does this means those vanity short nxt numeric id actually are worth something now?  ;D

Transaktion ID ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on October 02, 2014, 01:20:34 am
IS the lower ID number relevant again?

Yes.

does this means those vanity short nxt numeric id actually are worth something now?  ;D

Transaktion ID ;)

hehe i see.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Jimmy2011 on October 02, 2014, 01:38:06 am

Good! I got Jinn. Good luck to Jinn to everyone.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on October 02, 2014, 01:38:14 am
I am sooooo sad  :'(

Went to sleep and woke up to this.  I had a bid in at 80 NXT for 50 shares.  I was sure it was safe because it hadn't hardly moved in days.  Stupid me.   

If anybody wants to sell some, please PM me.  I will of course pay above 85 for your trouble. 
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Pilot on October 02, 2014, 04:35:11 am
I am sooooo sad  :'(

Went to sleep and woke up to this.  I had a bid in at 80 NXT for 50 shares.  I was sure it was safe because it hadn't hardly moved in days.  Stupid me.   

If anybody wants to sell some, please PM me.  I will of course pay above 85 for your trouble.

Put in a buy order on the AE.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gbcholgi on October 02, 2014, 06:18:42 am
Good auction! my bid at 91 was perfect :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on October 02, 2014, 07:00:15 am
I am sooooo sad  :'(

Went to sleep and woke up to this.  I had a bid in at 80 NXT for 50 shares.  I was sure it was safe because it hadn't hardly moved in days.  Stupid me.   

If anybody wants to sell some, please PM me.  I will of course pay above 85 for your trouble.

Put in a buy order on the AE.

I put in at 100 and then people bid over me. Not my day at all.

Woke up this morning and said, "f*********k Nooooooooooooooooo!"

I originally had an order 100 but I don't have much nxt so I thought if I go at 80 I can get more shares. Was crushed when I got excluded.

I even posted about JINN here talking it up on a different forum. Maybe some of them out bid me! :-(

https://forum.nemcoin.com/index.php?topic=2266.msg5622#msg5622
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on October 02, 2014, 08:48:30 am
please, can you explain it a little more?
is it about number of nodes see the same transaction during block creation?

The following happened (according to the order set by the transaction ids):

1. New bid order placed
2. Ask order placed
3. Old bid order cancelled (if there was anything left)

OK, so the time stamp of transaction id define the order sequence(?)
How could Jinn solve this?
Therefore you would need realtime matching e.g. a CEP-engine or a smart queuing-engine.
So that means with Jinn very short block timespans are possible without leak of security?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 02, 2014, 08:54:13 am
OK, so the time stamp of transaction id define the order sequence(?)
How could Jinn solve this?
Therefore you would need realtime matching e.g. a CEP-engine or a smart queuing-engine.
So that means with Jinn very short block timespans are possible without leak of security?

Timestamp doesn't matter, id does.
Jinn can't solve it completely, it's simply impossible.
Very short blocks are impossible in a system not controlled by a central authority.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on October 02, 2014, 09:15:01 am
Got some share during IPO.
Thanks for the transparent and fair distribution!!!
Wish you the best for realizing your ideas.

(-; hope the prove of concept game will be a funny one ;-)
     looking forward to it
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on October 02, 2014, 09:35:27 am
Just made a bid for 38 at 130 NXT.  That is all my money. Somebody please take it!!!

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: crimi on October 02, 2014, 09:35:55 am
Definitely a interesting market that can develop in the future.

Good luck

Got some  ;D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on October 02, 2014, 09:59:16 am
All excess funds has been returned to their rightful owners. We added an additional single NXT for everyone to cover the bid placement fee.

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Breasal on October 02, 2014, 10:16:24 am
All excess funds has been returned to their rightful owners. We added an additional single NXT for everyone to cover the bid placement fee.

Got it, thanks for the reimbursement! Congrats on the successful fundraiser and all the best for Jinn's future. 
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: LiQio on October 02, 2014, 10:16:40 am
All excess funds has been returned to their rightful owners. We added an additional single NXT for everyone to cover the bid placement fee.

Thanks. Nice gesture  :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: btcsnippers on October 02, 2014, 10:19:36 am
https://nxtblocks.info/#section/assets_exchange/market/5081281639749220719

https://nxtblocks.info/#section/assets_exchange/market/9659735997764429954

what are those ?

is this fake ?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cobaltskky on October 02, 2014, 10:34:19 am
All excess funds has been returned to their rightful owners. We added an additional single NXT for everyone to cover the bid placement fee.

Got mine!  Thanks!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on October 02, 2014, 10:51:44 am
i wonder if triangle is BCNext with his real project? imagine the price if he is.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Zahlen on October 02, 2014, 10:52:58 am
Just realized CfB had a thread about Jinn opcodes in Pub Crawl, from a few months back: https://nxtforum.org/pub-crawl/rfc-project-%27jinn%27-%28processor%29/ Gonna find some time to read through that.

(Finding out about it earlier probably wouldn't have changed my decision to not bid at IPO price, I'm still waiting for the hardware team to be assembled, and to hear from them.)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cc001 on October 02, 2014, 10:57:32 am
i wonder if triangle CfB is BCNext with his real project? imagine the price if he is.

:D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on October 02, 2014, 11:03:44 am
got mine thx :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on October 02, 2014, 11:25:18 am
i wonder if triangle is BCNext with his real project? imagine the price if he is.

I also tought about this...  :D
It could make sens cuz I think Jinn is a much more ambitious project than Nxt (i.e. Jinn also involves complex hardware).
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on October 02, 2014, 11:35:45 am
Edit: I am the proud owner of 31 Jinn.  I paid almost double what I would have wanted, but that is how it goes.  I can't blame anybody but myself for not bidding correctly during the auction. 

Good luck CfB
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on October 02, 2014, 11:50:06 am
Are there plans to get Jinn on coinmarketcap?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on October 02, 2014, 11:54:22 am
i wonder if triangle is BCNext with his real project? imagine the price if he is.

I also tought about this...  :D
It could make sens cuz I think Jinn is a much more ambitious project than Nxt (i.e. Jinn also involves complex hardware).

This is CfB's next project.  He had the idea for Qubic a long long time ago and has been working his way towards it.  This Jinn thing is all a part of it.  It is an extremely ambitious project.  What BCnext did in crypto is much smaller leap than Jinn.  If this works, it is going to be really big. 
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Fatih87SK on October 02, 2014, 12:00:38 pm
I totally don't know the potential of this asset, but I bought it anyway. Wish you good luck all!

I will spread the word at Twitter about the developments; https://twitter.com/NXTmovement/status/517613565457756160 (https://twitter.com/NXTmovement/status/517613565457756160)

Anyone have an idea what the value can be after 2-3 years being successful?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: btcsnippers on October 02, 2014, 12:07:13 pm
can someone please tell me what those other 2 jin assets on the NXTblocks are ?
I allready own some jin from dutch auction , i just want to know what those assest are that are beeing offered on those 2 new posts.

Im still kinda new to NXT so if im missing something obvious please be kind ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TwinWinNerD on October 02, 2014, 12:07:53 pm
Scam assets.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on October 02, 2014, 12:14:00 pm
I totally don't know the potential of this asset, but I bought it anyway. Wish you good luck all!

I will spread the word at Twitter about the developments; https://twitter.com/NXTmovement/status/517613565457756160 (https://twitter.com/NXTmovement/status/517613565457756160)

Anyone have an idea what the value can be after 2-3 years being successful?

I think in 5 years 1 share will be worth way more than $100.  I say this with all seriousness.  I spent all of my remaining NXT buying this, and I am thinking about bringing in more BTC -> NXT to buy more Jinn.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on October 02, 2014, 12:14:07 pm
3 years being SUCCESSFUL? I think a project like this, if everything goes right, could end up being worth a fortune - like, 11 figures large.

Question is, how likely is that to happen? There are real challenges to overcome here - I just really believe in the team.

My biggest concern still remains with the fact that, on the sale of this entity (for say, $15,000,000,000 dollars in 2020) - we (as of right now) have no legal right to our share of the money. I trust the team will do the right thing (as they have stated), but it would be nice to find a framework to make this contractually explicit.



I totally don't know the potential of this asset, but I bought it anyway. Wish you good luck all!

I will spread the word at Twitter about the developments; https://twitter.com/NXTmovement/status/517613565457756160 (https://twitter.com/NXTmovement/status/517613565457756160)

Anyone have an idea what the value can be after 2-3 years being successful?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: valarmg on October 02, 2014, 01:12:44 pm
can someone please tell me what those other 2 jin assets on the NXTblocks are ?
I allready own some jin from dutch auction , i just want to know what those assest are that are beeing offered on those 2 new posts.

Im still kinda new to NXT so if im missing something obvious please be kind ;)

Anyone can create an asset on the Nxt asset exchange and give it any name. So every time a project is launched, people will create fake assets to attempt to scam people out of their money. Be very careful that you always buy the correct asset. Those two you found are scam assets.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: LiQio on October 02, 2014, 01:17:42 pm
can someone please tell me what those other 2 jin assets on the NXTblocks are ?
I allready own some jin from dutch auction , i just want to know what those assest are that are beeing offered on those 2 new posts.

Im still kinda new to NXT so if im missing something obvious please be kind ;)

Anyone can create an asset on the Nxt asset exchange and give it any name. So every time a project is launched, people will create fake assets to attempt to scam people out of their money. Be very careful that you always buy the correct asset. Those two you found are scam assets.

Or only create assets that no one will ever buy: https://nxtblocks.info/#section/assets_exchange/market/4420962345269767688

Just kidding  ;D

PS: valarmg is totally right
PPS: don't ever buy the asset from the above link
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on October 02, 2014, 01:18:57 pm
Are there plans to get Jinn on coinmarketcap?

The CMC admin is Gliss - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=61526

The Bter admin is freeworm (Lin) - https://nxtforum.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1673

let's PM/swarm them both to get Jinn listed on both.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on October 02, 2014, 01:21:52 pm
Anyone can create an asset on the Nxt asset exchange and give it any name. So every time a project is launched, people will create fake assets to attempt to scam people out of their money. Be very careful that you always buy the correct asset. Those two you found are scam assets.

Only the asset ID is unique for each asset and you have to find out the correct asset id.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on October 02, 2014, 02:26:59 pm
Got a reply from freeworm and he said that Bter would be adding Jinn.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Fatih87SK on October 02, 2014, 02:45:53 pm
3 years being SUCCESSFUL? I think a project like this, if everything goes right, could end up being worth a fortune - like, 11 figures large.

Question is, how likely is that to happen? There are real challenges to overcome here - I just really believe in the team.

My biggest concern still remains with the fact that, on the sale of this entity (for say, $15,000,000,000 dollars in 2020) - we (as of right now) have no legal right to our share of the money. I trust the team will do the right thing (as they have stated), but it would be nice to find a framework to make this contractually explicit.



I totally don't know the potential of this asset, but I bought it anyway. Wish you good luck all!

I will spread the word at Twitter about the developments; https://twitter.com/NXTmovement/status/517613565457756160 (https://twitter.com/NXTmovement/status/517613565457756160)

Anyone have an idea what the value can be after 2-3 years being successful?

So you are saying that you can be rich even with 100 Assets. Then I'm deatHodling.  :P
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: buybitcoinscanada on October 02, 2014, 03:39:08 pm
A
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on October 02, 2014, 06:34:34 pm
100 shares = .0001 of the entire company!

Take .0001 of INTEL and see how much money that is  8)

ca. 58 billion x .0001 = ca. 5.8 million dollars

Now, we just need JINN to get the size of Intel  ;D



3 years being SUCCESSFUL? I think a project like this, if everything goes right, could end up being worth a fortune - like, 11 figures large.

Question is, how likely is that to happen? There are real challenges to overcome here - I just really believe in the team.

My biggest concern still remains with the fact that, on the sale of this entity (for say, $15,000,000,000 dollars in 2020) - we (as of right now) have no legal right to our share of the money. I trust the team will do the right thing (as they have stated), but it would be nice to find a framework to make this contractually explicit.



I totally don't know the potential of this asset, but I bought it anyway. Wish you good luck all!

I will spread the word at Twitter about the developments; https://twitter.com/NXTmovement/status/517613565457756160 (https://twitter.com/NXTmovement/status/517613565457756160)

Anyone have an idea what the value can be after 2-3 years being successful?

So you are saying that you can be rich even with 100 Assets. Then I'm deatHodling.  :P
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on October 02, 2014, 06:46:48 pm
Great news about bter :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Fatih87SK on October 02, 2014, 06:48:46 pm
100 shares = .0001 of the entire company!

Take .0001 of INTEL and see how much money that is  8)

ca. 58 billion x .0001 = ca. 5.8 million dollars

Now, we just need JINN to get the size of Intel  ;D



3 years being SUCCESSFUL? I think a project like this, if everything goes right, could end up being worth a fortune - like, 11 figures large.

Question is, how likely is that to happen? There are real challenges to overcome here - I just really believe in the team.

My biggest concern still remains with the fact that, on the sale of this entity (for say, $15,000,000,000 dollars in 2020) - we (as of right now) have no legal right to our share of the money. I trust the team will do the right thing (as they have stated), but it would be nice to find a framework to make this contractually explicit.



I totally don't know the potential of this asset, but I bought it anyway. Wish you good luck all!

I will spread the word at Twitter about the developments; https://twitter.com/NXTmovement/status/517613565457756160 (https://twitter.com/NXTmovement/status/517613565457756160)

Anyone have an idea what the value can be after 2-3 years being successful?

So you are saying that you can be rich even with 100 Assets. Then I'm deatHodling.  :P

(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/02/0426e006f2b66253f3901f79f76d3355.jpg)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on October 02, 2014, 07:09:21 pm
LOL. You just broke the internet with that sized meme.


100 shares = .0001 of the entire company!

Take .0001 of INTEL and see how much money that is  8)

ca. 58 billion x .0001 = ca. 5.8 million dollars

Now, we just need JINN to get the size of Intel  ;D



3 years being SUCCESSFUL? I think a project like this, if everything goes right, could end up being worth a fortune - like, 11 figures large.

Question is, how likely is that to happen? There are real challenges to overcome here - I just really believe in the team.

My biggest concern still remains with the fact that, on the sale of this entity (for say, $15,000,000,000 dollars in 2020) - we (as of right now) have no legal right to our share of the money. I trust the team will do the right thing (as they have stated), but it would be nice to find a framework to make this contractually explicit.



I totally don't know the potential of this asset, but I bought it anyway. Wish you good luck all!

I will spread the word at Twitter about the developments; https://twitter.com/NXTmovement/status/517613565457756160 (https://twitter.com/NXTmovement/status/517613565457756160)

Anyone have an idea what the value can be after 2-3 years being successful?

So you are saying that you can be rich even with 100 Assets. Then I'm deatHodling.  :P
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/02/04f1e45aea454134a46f9f5a3d035081.jpg)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Djinou94 on October 03, 2014, 01:21:50 am
(http://babblingbrookesblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/challenge-accepted.jpg)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on October 03, 2014, 08:19:06 am
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1IZf5cBivam_93zENT_arFFuvWDidHGjWxoTMVmFSoWg/viewform

guys make a request form for cmc to add jinn.

This will help you fill all the details needed.

Quote
What is the coin's official website?
http://www.jinnlabs.com/

Please provide a URL that shows the total number of coins in real time.
http://nxtreporting.com/?as=3061160746493230502

Please provide a URL of the coin's official logo:
http://www.jinnlabs.com/jinn_logo.png

Please provide any other information that would be useful.
https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/(ann)-jinn/
https://nxtforum.org/jinn/
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Fatih87SK on October 03, 2014, 08:31:16 am
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1IZf5cBivam_93zENT_arFFuvWDidHGjWxoTMVmFSoWg/viewform

guys make a request form for cmc to add jinn.

This will help you fill all the details needed.

Quote
What is the coin's official website?
http://www.jinnlabs.com/

Please provide a URL that shows the total number of coins in real time.
http://nxtreporting.com/?as=3061160746493230502

Please provide a URL of the coin's official logo:
http://www.jinnlabs.com/jinn_logo.png

Please provide any other information that would be useful.
https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/(ann)-jinn/
https://nxtforum.org/jinn/

Done. It was 1 minute of work. Recommend everyone doing it.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on October 03, 2014, 09:00:34 am
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1IZf5cBivam_93zENT_arFFuvWDidHGjWxoTMVmFSoWg/viewform

guys make a request form for cmc to add jinn.

This will help you fill all the details needed.

Quote
What is the coin's official website?
http://www.jinnlabs.com/

Please provide a URL that shows the total number of coins in real time.
http://nxtreporting.com/?as=3061160746493230502

Please provide a URL of the coin's official logo:
http://www.jinnlabs.com/jinn_logo.png

Please provide any other information that would be useful.
https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/(ann)-jinn/
https://nxtforum.org/jinn/

Done. It was 1 minute of work. Recommend everyone doing it.
If there is a logo in 64x64. Png format il mail him. He did a good few for me before and updated the volume to include mgw after I mailed him with info too so could give it a go again :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on October 03, 2014, 12:57:35 pm
jinn asset now online at cmc. that was really fast.  ;D

13   Jinn Jinn   Nxt   $ 528,932   $ 5.29   100,000   $ 13,631   
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: kodtycoon on October 03, 2014, 01:21:50 pm
jinn asset now online at cmc. that was really fast.  ;D

13   Jinn Jinn   Nxt   $ 528,932   $ 5.29   100,000   $ 13,631

no. 13? :o holy shit... brace yourself! shits gon get nuts around here! :D

edit.. fek its on the asset side. i forgot lol
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on October 03, 2014, 01:47:27 pm
no. 13? :o holy shit... brace yourself! shits gon get nuts around here! :D

edit.. fek its on the asset side. i forgot lol

no. your right, no.13 is the place for jinn soon.  ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 03, 2014, 08:13:36 pm
If someone is interested how Abracadabra will look, here is the list of tokens planned to be used - https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond/Abra/blob/master/src/cfb/abra/Analyzer.java

Jiniri Limited was developed much faster than I expected, I'm going to split the rest of the planned time between Jiniri, Abracadabra compiler and Medium (https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond?tab=repositories).
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: zorke on October 03, 2014, 09:55:15 pm

Jiniri Limited was developed much faster than I expected, I'm going to split the rest of the planned time between Jiniri, Abracadabra compiler and Medium (https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond?tab=repositories).

Does this mean there will be a new round of Jinn asset sale soon by you guys? 1/5 as it is stated in prospectus, after the completion of Jiniri Limited?

Thanks
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on October 03, 2014, 10:02:08 pm

Jiniri Limited was developed much faster than I expected, I'm going to split the rest of the planned time between Jiniri, Abracadabra compiler and Medium (https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond?tab=repositories).

Does this mean there will be a new round of Jinn asset sale soon by you guys? 1/5 as it is stated in prospectus, after the completion of Jiniri Limited?

Thanks


No, it just means that it CAN happen if we really need it for development. But our strategy is not to issue more assets on AE unless we really, really need to. Instead we'll be seeking Series A investments later on.

Since we're already a month ahead of schedule we don't think we need to sell much more assets in the near future.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on October 03, 2014, 11:05:34 pm
No, it just means that it CAN happen if we really need it for development. But our strategy is not to issue more assets on AE unless we really, really need to. Instead we'll be seeking Series A investments later on.
Since we're already a month ahead of schedule we don't think we need to sell much more assets in the near future.

This is great! Hope the asset price will get much higher to help you guys to get a good deal for the Series A.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on October 03, 2014, 11:16:27 pm
Amazing progress is being made...


If someone is interested how Abracadabra will look, here is the list of tokens planned to be used - https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond/Abra/blob/master/src/cfb/abra/Analyzer.java

Jiniri Limited was developed much faster than I expected, I'm going to split the rest of the planned time between Jiniri, Abracadabra compiler and Medium (https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond?tab=repositories).
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Jimmy2011 on October 04, 2014, 02:24:59 am

Jiniri Limited was developed much faster than I expected, I'm going to split the rest of the planned time between Jiniri, Abracadabra compiler and Medium (https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond?tab=repositories).

Does this mean there will be a new round of Jinn asset sale soon by you guys? 1/5 as it is stated in prospectus, after the completion of Jiniri Limited?

Thanks


No, it just means that it CAN happen if we really need it for development. But our strategy is not to issue more assets on AE unless we really, really need to. Instead we'll be seeking Series A investments later on.

Since we're already a month ahead of schedule we don't think we need to sell much more assets in the near future.

Thanks for the great news. It means that Triangle company will definitely transfer the asset to those founders according to the milestone time, but they won't sell those shares if it is not really short of money, is it right?

Look forward to incorporation and Series A investment.

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on October 04, 2014, 09:17:42 am
CfB is a machine! how fast does he code!  :o

(http://rennlist.com/forums/customavatars/avatar85984_2.gif)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on October 04, 2014, 09:36:15 am

Jiniri Limited was developed much faster than I expected, I'm going to split the rest of the planned time between Jiniri, Abracadabra compiler and Medium (https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond?tab=repositories).

Does this mean there will be a new round of Jinn asset sale soon by you guys? 1/5 as it is stated in prospectus, after the completion of Jiniri Limited?

Thanks


No, it just means that it CAN happen if we really need it for development. But our strategy is not to issue more assets on AE unless we really, really need to. Instead we'll be seeking Series A investments later on.

Since we're already a month ahead of schedule we don't think we need to sell much more assets in the near future.

Thanks for the great news. It means that Triangle company will definitely transfer the asset to those founders according to the milestone time, but they won't sell those shares if it is not really short of money, is it right?

Look forward to incorporation and Series A investment.


Correct :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Sebastien256 on October 04, 2014, 09:40:28 am
This is a short answer "à la CfB".  :D Do you guys have all access to Triangle account?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 04, 2014, 09:44:53 am
This is a short answer "à la CfB".  :D Do you guys have all access to Triangle account?

No.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cobaltskky on October 04, 2014, 05:02:52 pm
MUST...BUY...MORE...JINN....
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: a7594li on October 05, 2014, 02:28:59 am
Hi,I try to translate  jinnlabs.com (http://jinnlabs.com) into Chinese: https://nxtforum.org/(chinese)/jinnlabs-com/ (https://nxtforum.org/(chinese)/jinnlabs-com/)
I am so interested in...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Funkylump on October 05, 2014, 06:41:19 am
Thank you a7594li.

I think that's important. I also agree about lowering NXT fees to 0.1. Post your NXT address and I will transfer you 3 JINN for your work.

Please share on Chinese social media and forums.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: arafel71 on October 05, 2014, 08:49:56 am
interesting : http://www.coindesk.com/ibm-executive-block-chain-internet-of-things/
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on October 05, 2014, 09:14:24 am
interesting : http://www.coindesk.com/ibm-executive-block-chain-internet-of-things/

Oh man, Satoshi's blockchain is going to have some serious competition.  Satoshi very well might have been a brilliant visionary inventor coder, but he was just one man. 

This article says IBM and Samsung are teaming up, I am guess to reinvent the blockchain.  They might have 100s of hardcore serious programmers divided up into teams working on this with huge resources at their disposal.  Satoshi is a hero, but his blockchain technology might be soon getting outdated.  In 5 years from now IBM/Samsung might introduce super duper sparkling blockchain. 
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: nexern on October 05, 2014, 09:29:50 am
good timing for jinn, the tool/hardware chain fits also very nice into a possible takeover next year. coincidence?  ;D

which leads me into another question. how about patents and what strategy triangle planed to defend them?
(which by the way is much harder than register a global one)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 05, 2014, 09:56:48 am
good timing for jinn, the tool/hardware chain fits also very nice into a possible takeover next year. coincidence?  ;D

which leads me into another question. how about patents and what strategy triangle planed to defend them?
(which by the way is much harder than register a global one)

The problem of distributed data consistency can't be solved for a general case. The plan of Jinn project is to provide hosting for services using Jiniri Unlimited. This gives two benefits:

1. the technology can't be reverse engineered;
2. Jinn Labs gets access to statistics for different scenarios (MMO-games, IoT, blockchain-based solutions).

The statistics will give a key to optimization of load-balancing data among hosts and will let to devise different techniques best suitable for a certain scenario. These techniques will be Intellectual Property and could be protected by patent, know-how or a hybrid method.

My personal proposal is to use the know-how method (it doesn't require patenting and is very good protected against piracy). After a while more statistics will become available and better methods will be devised, so old ones can be patented (revealed) and the newest one "know-howed". This approach is the best strategy from my point of view.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: nexern on October 05, 2014, 10:22:17 am
ok, the evolutionary, black boxed solution besides agility is an effective protection. at least at the beginning.

another question, does triangle would be open for cooperations, joint ventures etc. with some big players and moreover
does triangle consider active actions into this direction by - let's call it - pricking those players at the right time?

added: fodder envy is mighty as you know  ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 05, 2014, 11:10:57 am
ok, the evolutionary, black boxed solution besides agility is an effective protection. at least at the beginning.

another question, does triangle would be open for cooperations, joint ventures etc. with some big players and moreover
does triangle consider active actions into this direction by - let's call it - pricking those players at the right time?

added: fodder envy is mighty as you know  ;)

Can't answer this question. Let's wait for Triangle.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on October 05, 2014, 05:48:47 pm
interesting : http://www.coindesk.com/ibm-executive-block-chain-internet-of-things/

This might partially be able to explain why BTC's price is dropping today. The realy application of  crypto and blockchain technology is not coins/money but unilities of people's daily life and to make the existing/future business activities more efficient and cheaper and competitive.

Coins might be just a disguise for fundraising of early blockchain technology development before it is able to go to the Main Street to raise funds.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on October 05, 2014, 08:32:38 pm
ok, the evolutionary, black boxed solution besides agility is an effective protection. at least at the beginning.

another question, does triangle would be open for cooperations, joint ventures etc. with some big players and moreover
does triangle consider active actions into this direction by - let's call it - pricking those players at the right time?

added: fodder envy is mighty as you know  ;)

For sure, if the collaboration would fit the criteria that we have then that can be a viable strategy to bring Jinn and it's functionality to market as soon and efficiently as possible.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on October 06, 2014, 09:40:46 am
https://nxtforum.org/jinn/we-are-looking-for-code-reviewers/
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Wulfcastle on October 08, 2014, 06:44:09 pm
Any updates on this? What next? Sorry, haven't had time to read the whole thread.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 08, 2014, 06:49:13 pm
Any updates on this? What next? Sorry, haven't had time to read the whole thread.

I'm waiting when review of the code completed and bugs reported. Also I'm working on Abracadabra, trying to simplify it.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Wulfcastle on October 09, 2014, 02:28:04 pm
Any updates on this? What next? Sorry, haven't had time to read the whole thread.

I'm waiting when review of the code completed and bugs reported. Also I'm working on Abracadabra, trying to simplify it.

Do you possibly have a roadmap outlining when various stages/goals will be completed?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on October 09, 2014, 02:43:40 pm
Any updates on this? What next? Sorry, haven't had time to read the whole thread.
I'm waiting when review of the code completed and bugs reported. Also I'm working on Abracadabra, trying to simplify it.
Do you possibly have a roadmap outlining when various stages/goals will be completed?

Hope this is good enough to you, see 6. Timeline here - http://www.jinnlabs.com/
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on October 09, 2014, 05:10:36 pm
Quote
blabla $ 7.1 trillion by 2020. blablablabla

BUY!!!!!!! BUY!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on October 09, 2014, 06:23:52 pm
For all people who can't await next steps in project progress,
some numbers in a nice presentation:
https://www.bosch-si.com/media/bosch_software_innovations/documents/iot_2/201404-bosch-software-innovations-iot-infographic.pdf (https://www.bosch-si.com/media/bosch_software_innovations/documents/iot_2/201404-bosch-software-innovations-iot-infographic.pdf)


cheers.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on October 09, 2014, 09:32:06 pm
More updates plus website will be made available soon. Right now we are prioritizing building a strong core team to get the product to market ASAP. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 15, 2014, 08:31:29 pm
Now Jiniri works with variable length trytes. Those who remember migration issues from 16-bit architectures to 32-bit and from 32-bit to 64-bit ones understand how cool it is. Other benefits: reduced energy consumption, (potentially) reduced number of logic gates required for a single core.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rlh on October 16, 2014, 01:19:38 am
Now Jiniri works with variable length trytes. Those who remember migration issues from 16-bit architectures to 32-bit and from 32-bit to 64-bit ones understand how cool it is. Other benefits: reduced energy consumption, (potentially) reduced number of logic gates required for a single core.

Are you saying that you are setting the foundation for an n-Tryte architecture over, say, fixed tryte lengths like 9, 27 or 81?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 16, 2014, 07:59:22 am
Are you saying that you are setting the foundation for an n-Tryte architecture over, say, fixed tryte lengths like 9, 27 or 81?

Yes.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Daedelus on October 16, 2014, 08:20:09 am
Remember when you upgraded to Windows 7 and you couldn't play Theme Hospital anymore?

Ahh, those were the days...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on October 16, 2014, 09:25:40 am
If we talk about good old games,
are there any info about the Jinn proof of concept game available?
What genre?
Is it about whisky or beer?
I'm curios about it!

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 16, 2014, 09:26:32 am
If we talk about good old games,
are there any info about the Jinn proof of concept game available?
What genre?
Is it about whisky or beer?
I'm curios about it!

It's based on Match-3 mechanic.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on October 16, 2014, 01:34:01 pm
If we talk about good old games,
are there any info about the Jinn proof of concept game available?
What genre?
Is it about whisky or beer?
I'm curios about it!

It's based on Match-3 mechanic.

cool,
if the release don't support, maybe I will create a mod where to match different whisky and beer icons ;-)

cheers!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on October 16, 2014, 03:25:23 pm
If we talk about good old games,
are there any info about the Jinn proof of concept game available?
What genre?
Is it about whisky or beer?
I'm curios about it!

It's based on Match-3 mechanic.

cool,
if the release don't support, maybe I will create a mod where to match different whisky and beer icons ;-)

cheers!

Sounds like a wonderful idea, make sure it's bourbon whiskEy
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on October 16, 2014, 08:23:53 pm
Sure, all kind of whiskEy!
Bourbon, Scotch, Indian WhiskEy, ...
And beer, all kind of beer.


The Official Highscore leader will get free whiskEy and beer in NXT-Pubs ;-)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on October 23, 2014, 10:00:53 pm
Any updates on Jinn yet?  Need to retire soon, I'm sick of working :P
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 23, 2014, 10:17:00 pm
Any updates on Jinn yet?  Need to retire soon, I'm sick of working :P

I'm optimizing different parts of Jinn architecture now. It means mainly removal of unnecessary elements and choice between trade-offs. Nothing really interesting to post about.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on October 23, 2014, 10:29:07 pm
Well, that's better than doing nothing.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on October 24, 2014, 05:55:48 pm
Well, that's better than doing nothing.

Hey, check your PM! :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 24, 2014, 07:24:25 pm
An interesting tweet by Nick Szabo - https://twitter.com/NickSzabo4/status/511624011390779392:
Quote
IDs are insecure, local, and labor-intensive. Nakamoto consensus is secure, global, and automated.

You may ask why it's interesting or why it's related to Jinn. The point is that objects inside Jinn don't know IDs of each other. There are no IDs because identification of objects is unnecessary. In real life we don't care about identification much too because behavior of objects around us is more important and is sufficient for assigning our own (local) IDs. Bitcoin consensus is achieved by using behavior (proof-of-work) and IDs (bitcoin addresses) are not required. The fact that both the systems (blockchain technology and Jinn technology) don't need IDs means that laws of decentralization are universal and manifest in decentralized systems by granting them the same properties.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: allbits on October 24, 2014, 08:27:10 pm
Isn't the Nakamoto consensus a consensus about IDs (ie. the properties of each address)?

I'm not understanding how blockchain technology doesn't need IDs.  I need a public address and a private key (ID) to make use of it.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 24, 2014, 08:47:36 pm
Isn't the Nakamoto consensus a consensus about IDs (ie. the properties of each address)?

I'm not understanding how blockchain technology doesn't need IDs.  I need a public address and a private key (ID) to make use of it.

Blockchain doesn't care WHO created a block. It cares only if enough work was spent on that. WHO is irrelevant completely.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: benjyz on October 24, 2014, 09:08:15 pm
Isn't the Nakamoto consensus a consensus about IDs (ie. the properties of each address)?

I'm not understanding how blockchain technology doesn't need IDs.  I need a public address and a private key (ID) to make use of it.

Blockchain doesn't care WHO created a block. It cares only if enough work was spent on that. WHO is irrelevant completely.

That's not necessarily a good thing. The only way to build more complex trust relations is based on known identities.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: allbits on October 24, 2014, 09:29:04 pm
I see.  It just so happens in this case that it's a consensus about id related stuff. But it could be anything
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 24, 2014, 10:07:00 pm
That's not necessarily a good thing. The only way to build more complex trust relations is based on known identities.

Trust and decentralization are not very compatible.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TwinWinNerD on October 24, 2014, 10:14:54 pm
That's not necessarily a good thing. The only way to build more complex trust relations is based on known identities.

Trust and decentralization are not very compatible.

I don't agree. As long as the person can never steal more in one go as his reputation is worth to him, then the maximum utility is realized by NOT scamming ever.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on October 25, 2014, 01:12:29 am
Well, that's better than doing nothing.

Hey, check your PM! :)

Don't see any PM's from you, sorry, please send again.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 25, 2014, 07:53:59 am
I don't agree. As long as the person can never steal more in one go as his reputation is worth to him, then the maximum utility is realized by NOT scamming ever.

There is a flaw in your scheme - what if that person is forced to steal (someone put a gun to his head)?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Evan on October 25, 2014, 10:33:22 am
Need to retire soon, I'm sick of working :P

+1
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: martismartis on October 25, 2014, 10:40:20 am
www.jinnlabs.com not working
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on October 25, 2014, 10:51:15 am
www.jinnlabs.com not working

Yea changing to setup the actual websit :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cobaltskky on October 25, 2014, 11:53:21 am
www.jinnlabs.com not working

ZOMG! IT'S A SCAM!!!! DUMPDUMPDUMP!

Not really. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: sparta_cuss on October 25, 2014, 03:47:42 pm
Isn't the Nakamoto consensus a consensus about IDs (ie. the properties of each address)?

I'm not understanding how blockchain technology doesn't need IDs.  I need a public address and a private key (ID) to make use of it.

Blockchain doesn't care WHO created a block. It cares only if enough work was spent on that. WHO is irrelevant completely.

Proof-of-Work is relevant for the real world, though we don't often call it that. It's why CfB and James can remain anonymous. They "are" their work products (the results of their choices and actions), at least as far as most people are concerned. "Who" they are is what they do, for all practical purposes. (There are interesting connection with Hannah Arendt's analysis of action, and with William James and American Pragmatism, but I won't go into that now.) People who insist on knowing who someone is (name, address, etc.) often have a very restrictive definition of identity.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: allbits on October 25, 2014, 04:49:21 pm
nice post sparta_cuss  :)

I'm starting to understand the point now.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on October 25, 2014, 07:15:21 pm
It was a very good explanation.  I didn't quite think of it that way but it resonates.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Dxl on October 26, 2014, 04:31:28 am
I believe jinn
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Buratino on October 26, 2014, 05:36:30 am
Jinn ask volume becomes thick. Will it be a next sales for remaining shares?
Seems it will be a good investment after NEM launch.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on October 26, 2014, 12:33:56 pm
www.jinnlabs.com not working
Yea changing to setup the actual websit :)

I wonder if you can direct that url to a page saying that the site is under reconstruction instead in case people get wondering and confused.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on October 27, 2014, 11:21:30 pm
Yes! Please do this.

www.jinnlabs.com not working
Yea changing to setup the actual websit :)

I wonder if you can direct that url to a page saying that the site is under reconstruction instead in case people get wondering and confused.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 28, 2014, 08:11:57 am
A short update:

I managed to get rid of necessity to have an operating system. Pros of this > cons. I'm waiting while review of the existing code is over, after that I'll write down the final part of Jiniri's code.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on October 28, 2014, 10:27:27 am
no operating system means direct interaction of medium layer with opcode?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 28, 2014, 10:57:42 am
no operating system means direct interaction of medium layer with opcode?

No. There is only one type of interaction - messages. No OS means that it's possible to interact with other components directly.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: nexern on October 28, 2014, 11:26:13 am
no operating system means direct interaction of medium layer with opcode?

No. There is only one type of interaction - messages. No OS means that it's possible to interact with other components directly.

baremetal ?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on October 28, 2014, 11:34:25 am
baremetal ?

Yes. The problem of mediums is that they add a lot of latency. In distributed computing it's the greatest evil.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: nexern on October 28, 2014, 11:57:10 am
baremetal ?

Yes. The problem of mediums is that they add a lot of latency. In distributed computing it's the greatest evil.

wow! yes, latency is/was always the main showstopper i see here and i mentioned this before but this approach could solve this.
atm i don't know any other architecture, able to compare in speed and lightness. the next level would be microkernels like minix
(fan of it due to it's reincarnation abilities) but i guess they are adding to much noise for jinn.

so baremetal as base (casted directly into hardware/cores later) and adding a lightweigthed custom full stack/mpi layer (jinn) on top?
(simple spoken, haven't had the time to dig deeper into jinn)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on October 28, 2014, 12:05:35 pm
baremetal ?

Yes. ....

so this implies, the dedicated hardware issues are solved more or less?
that would be great news!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on October 28, 2014, 02:07:35 pm
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/sec-sends-inquiry-letters-hundreds-bitcoin-companies-unregistered-securities/

any thoughts?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on October 28, 2014, 03:15:43 pm
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/sec-sends-inquiry-letters-hundreds-bitcoin-companies-unregistered-securities/

any thoughts?

Well we issued asset tokens in return for tokens on a decentralized exchange while informing everyone that it's not incorporated and thus not a security. We also informed everyone of the risks and are following through on everything we have promised, plus we're in europe, so it should not be applicable to us at all. However we naturally hope we don't have to waste time or money on this, we are too busy with developing Jinn.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on October 28, 2014, 04:24:37 pm
Thanks ;-)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: allbits on October 28, 2014, 05:49:09 pm

while informing everyone that it's not incorporated and thus not a security
 ...

plus we're in europe, so it should not be applicable to us at all

The definition of "security" in the Securities Act clearly includes the tokens that you offered.

The fact that you are in Europe is not relevant.  What is relevant is whether you offered the securities within the United States.  Whether you did so is a factual question based on all circumstances.  It appears to me as if you did.

The real questions here are whether the SEC's long arm can reach you in any meaningful way, or whether they would ever feel motivated enough to attempt to stretch out their arm to you.  Probably not.  If I were you, I'd just focus on Jinn.

Securities laws are broadly written.  In my view, they capture all the activity on the Nxt AE.

Philosophically, I would like to see humans regain the ability to engage in capital formation outside the limitations of government regulation.  I believe this can be done using blockchain technologies.  However, DACs would be required.  The general principle would be that there is never an "issuer" of securities because the issuer is a "machine".  All of the human participants would be mere purchasers of securities, never issuers or market-makers or promotors.  As of now, we are all still free to purchase unregulated securities as we like, without government interference or threats.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: ChuckOne on October 28, 2014, 06:07:38 pm
Isn't the Nakamoto consensus a consensus about IDs (ie. the properties of each address)?

I'm not understanding how blockchain technology doesn't need IDs.  I need a public address and a private key (ID) to make use of it.

Blockchain doesn't care WHO created a block. It cares only if enough work was spent on that. WHO is irrelevant completely.

Proof-of-Work is relevant for the real world, though we don't often call it that. It's why CfB and James can remain anonymous. They "are" their work products (the results of their choices and actions), at least as far as most people are concerned. "Who" they are is what they do, for all practical purposes. (There are interesting connection with Hannah Arendt's analysis of action, and with William James and American Pragmatism, but I won't go into that now.) People who insist on knowing who someone is (name, address, etc.) often have a very restrictive definition of identity.

duck typing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_typing)

"When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck."

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on October 31, 2014, 03:59:41 pm
I'm assuming the new site is going to be spectacular!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on November 01, 2014, 12:13:54 pm
FYI: I'm going to spend next week assessing feasibility of Skyrim Multiplayer implementation as a proof-of-concept game using Jiniri.

You are welcome to vote on a related issue - https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/do-you-like-skyrim/
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Jimmy2011 on November 01, 2014, 12:50:44 pm
FYI: I'm going to spend next week assessing feasibility of Skyrim Multiplayer implementation as a proof-of-concept game using Jiniri.

You are welcome to vote on a related issue - https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/do-you-like-skyrim/

Does It mean that you have finished Jinn Limited?

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on November 01, 2014, 01:00:50 pm
Does It mean that you have finished Jinn Limited?

It was finished a few weeks ago, I'm polishing it now and code review is being done by others.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on November 02, 2014, 03:15:43 pm
BOOM!!!!  ;D

*this is your captain speaking... prepare for takeoff*
 ;)

Does It mean that you have finished Jinn Limited?

It was finished a few weeks ago, I'm polishing it now and code review is being done by others.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on November 02, 2014, 06:00:28 pm
BOOM!!!!  ;D

*this is your captain speaking... prepare for takeoff*
 ;)

Does It mean that you have finished Jinn Limited?

I hope so too!

Honestly though, I still don't quite understand JINN yet though.

I was thinking that one day when the IoT explodes and there are lots of block chains that maybe certain devices would use JINN to share resources and not have to do everything on their own.

Am I getting close? Or is there another practical application?

It was finished a few weeks ago, I'm polishing it now and code review is being done by others.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on November 03, 2014, 11:10:44 am
FYI: I'm going to spend next week assessing feasibility of Skyrim Multiplayer implementation as a proof-of-concept game using Jiniri.

I've made some progress in reverse engineering of Skyrim, I can read coordinates of the player character. Sending them to a server is a trivial task, now I need to find out how to spawn NPCs (they will represent other players) and change their coordinates on the fly. Once this is done the problem of movement synchronization will be considered solved and I'll tackle more sophisticated problems.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Zahlen on November 03, 2014, 11:25:27 am
Reverse engineering? As in you're working on the .exes and .dlls? Skyrim has a modding API, I haven't gone into it myself, but I've done simple things like (move NPC with this ID # to my location) via the in-game console. Modders have done much, much more sophisticated things with the full API.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on November 03, 2014, 11:33:26 am
Reverse engineering? As in you're working on the .exes and .dlls? Skyrim has a modding API, I haven't gone into it myself, but I've done simple things like (move NPC with this ID # to my location) via the in-game console. Modders have done much, much more sophisticated things with the full API.

Papyrus doesn't have Networking API. I have to work with binary code.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: pf on November 03, 2014, 10:29:56 pm
Reverse engineering? As in you're working on the .exes and .dlls? Skyrim has a modding API, I haven't gone into it myself, but I've done simple things like (move NPC with this ID # to my location) via the in-game console. Modders have done much, much more sophisticated things with the full API.

Papyrus doesn't have Networking API. I have to work with binary code.

Wut is Papyrus?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on November 04, 2014, 08:36:38 am
Wut is Papyrus?

Scripting language of Skyrim.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on November 04, 2014, 01:38:40 pm
I can move NPCs now. The next step is to check that removal of unnecessary data (quests, NPCs, etc.) doesn't break the world.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Buratino on November 04, 2014, 04:07:31 pm
Jinn raises some interest (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10944.0).
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on November 06, 2014, 04:21:01 pm
Online version of Skyrim as a proof-of-concept game looks feasible.

PS: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2260634-hiring-scripter-for-online-project/
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on November 06, 2014, 05:16:15 pm
hmm,
unfortunately I'm specialized in Whiskey mods only.  ;)
... so I will use the free time to exercise my magic and dragon tamer skills ...
and drink some Whiskey
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Nexxie on November 06, 2014, 06:56:43 pm
why is jinnlabs.com down?

best regards
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: shin on November 06, 2014, 07:00:33 pm
why is jinnlabs.com down?

best regards
It has been asked an answered somewhere else. If I'm not mistaken, they are updating the website.

As to why the current site is taken offline completely while they're busy working on a new one is also a mistery to me. :P
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on November 06, 2014, 07:31:53 pm
why is jinnlabs.com down?

best regards

Took it down because the text there was only releant for the dutch auction and not afterwards. We got a website that is very soon ready to go, just some more content that needs to be billed in. Currently we've been prioritizing the hardware part and getting professors onboard, so the website has been postponed. Expect it up in a few days :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: digicoiner on November 08, 2014, 07:46:34 am
I was wondering what happened to the website as well.  Why not have a 'under construction' page?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: shin on November 08, 2014, 12:33:56 pm
I was wondering what happened to the website as well.  Why not have a 'under construction' page?
True. Good communication to the targeted audience seems like a very hard thing to do; it is something a lot of promising projects here really lacking. It is too bad, really. But hey, we are all learning here. I am still looking forward to this! ^^
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on November 08, 2014, 01:00:30 pm
I was wondering what happened to the website as well.  Why not have a 'under construction' page?
True. Good communication to the targeted audience seems like a very hard thing to do; it is something a lot of promising projects here really lacking. It is too bad, really. But hey, we are all learning here. I am still looking forward to this! ^^

Could you explain? I have already answered this question 3 times and promised a bigger update soon. Those who follow this thread know that we're currently also working on the Proof of Concept that involves Skyrim. A forum for that will be up a little later today for those who find that interesting.

What I can already say though is:

1. We've got more developers on board. You will see their faces and names soon on the website.

2. We've got computer scientists on board. Same as above

3. We're talking with people who want to use Jinn already, including NXT's very own Nexern.


This is a long term project that will take time to sort out all the different issues. We are basically inventing pretty much everything we are doing. We're not even standing on the shoulders of giants in many of these areas, it's completely from scratch, so naturally it's time consuming. But we're ahead of schedule and spending the funds frugally, so anyone who holds Jinn assets should be happy to know that.

A bigger more comprehensive and explanatory update will come soon, but we are keeping a lot of it on the downlow for strategic reasons. We don't want these gigantic competitors to just sweep up what we're working on.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on November 08, 2014, 01:16:09 pm
Nice update. Thanks!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: shin on November 08, 2014, 01:21:59 pm
True. Good communication to the targeted audience seems like a very hard thing to do; it is something a lot of promising projects here really lacking. It is too bad, really. But hey, we are all learning here. I am still looking forward to this! ^^
.....
Could you explain? I have already answered this question 3 times and promised a bigger update soon....
I am sorry if I was not clear and that it came out rather offensive. Yes I know you have answered this question.

I meant to say and wanted to point out that there should be a centralised place where information of important matter about the project should be placed on. This forum historically is not the best place for that--as we might have experienced in the past and learned from other projects. E.g. project maybe be seen as inactive, info can easily be scattered and lost, etc. A website, however, is a much better place for this. Hence the question; why not put a temporary "under-construction" page?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on November 08, 2014, 04:05:57 pm
Guys, you are welcome to http://aftermath.ipbhost.com
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TwinWinNerD on November 08, 2014, 04:14:13 pm
Wow, that sounds really cool cfb!

Is there any plan to incorporate a cryptocurrency into the game anyway?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on November 08, 2014, 04:20:59 pm
Wow, that sounds really cool cfb!

Is there any plan to incorporate a cryptocurrency into the game anyway?

Yes.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TwinWinNerD on November 08, 2014, 04:24:16 pm
(http://replygif.net/i/123.gif)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Darkhorse on November 08, 2014, 04:29:25 pm
impressive, is this your game in development cfb?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on November 08, 2014, 04:35:04 pm
impressive, is this your game in development cfb?

Skyrim mod will be used to visualize processes inside the proof-of-concept game. I could use GTA or any other game with appropriate gameplay, but I like Skyrim more.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on November 08, 2014, 06:50:24 pm
True. Good communication to the targeted audience seems like a very hard thing to do; it is something a lot of promising projects here really lacking. It is too bad, really. But hey, we are all learning here. I am still looking forward to this! ^^
.....
Could you explain? I have already answered this question 3 times and promised a bigger update soon....
I am sorry if I was not clear and that it came out rather offensive. Yes I know you have answered this question.

I meant to say and wanted to point out that there should be a centralised place where information of important matter about the project should be placed on. This forum historically is not the best place for that--as we might have experienced in the past and learned from other projects. E.g. project maybe be seen as inactive, info can easily be scattered and lost, etc. A website, however, is a much better place for this. Hence the question; why not put a temporary "under-construction" page?


No problem.

And yes this will exist very soon. I will have a weekly blog post that summarize all the news regarding the Jinn project.
As for why no "under-construction" page, it was simply due to the fact that we're not in a marketing stage yet, but it'll be up soon.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rdanneskjoldr on November 10, 2014, 07:53:10 pm
For an ignorant like me, what will diferentiate Skyrim Mod with Jinn, from a normal mod of the game?? From the basic user point of view, and the technical..
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TwinWinNerD on November 10, 2014, 07:54:07 pm
For an ignorant like me, what will diferentiate Skyrim Mod with Jinn, from a normal mod of the game??

It will be a proof of concept.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rdanneskjoldr on November 10, 2014, 07:56:02 pm
For an ignorant like me, what will diferentiate Skyrim Mod with Jinn, from a normal mod of the game??

It will be a proof of concept.

But will a basic user who just wants to enjoy a game find anything special? Or will it feel almost the same.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on November 10, 2014, 08:03:10 pm
But will a basic user who just wants to enjoy a game find anything special? Or will it feel almost the same.

He will play with/against alive people.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: _mr_e on November 13, 2014, 03:48:41 pm
What what the heck is Jinn? lol
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: cobaltskky on November 15, 2014, 01:50:05 pm
What what the heck is Jinn? lol

That which takes humanity to the next phase of evolution.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rdanneskjoldr on November 23, 2014, 07:28:29 pm
Any update¿
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on November 23, 2014, 08:17:47 pm
Any update¿

The proof-of-concept game is in active development. I posted a teaser - https://twitter.com/comefrombeyond/status/536528919072342017.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: digicoiner on November 23, 2014, 11:54:08 pm
True. Good communication to the targeted audience seems like a very hard thing to do; it is something a lot of promising projects here really lacking. It is too bad, really. But hey, we are all learning here. I am still looking forward to this! ^^
.....
Could you explain? I have already answered this question 3 times and promised a bigger update soon....
I am sorry if I was not clear and that it came out rather offensive. Yes I know you have answered this question.

I meant to say and wanted to point out that there should be a centralised place where information of important matter about the project should be placed on. This forum historically is not the best place for that--as we might have experienced in the past and learned from other projects. E.g. project maybe be seen as inactive, info can easily be scattered and lost, etc. A website, however, is a much better place for this. Hence the question; why not put a temporary "under-construction" page?


No problem.

And yes this will exist very soon. I will have a weekly blog post that summarize all the news regarding the Jinn project.
As for why no "under-construction" page, it was simply due to the fact that we're not in a marketing stage yet, but it'll be up soon.

Any update on the content for jinnlabs.com?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: achim on November 24, 2014, 08:36:40 am
Any update¿

The proof-of-concept game is in active development. I posted a teaser - https://twitter.com/comefrombeyond/status/536528919072342017.

Looks like you're building Skyrim Secondlife  :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Lordoftherigs on November 25, 2014, 01:10:24 pm
Skyrim fans are going to get crazy once they learn about the option of fully functional multilayer game  :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on November 25, 2014, 01:47:05 pm
True. Good communication to the targeted audience seems like a very hard thing to do; it is something a lot of promising projects here really lacking. It is too bad, really. But hey, we are all learning here. I am still looking forward to this! ^^
.....
Could you explain? I have already answered this question 3 times and promised a bigger update soon....
I am sorry if I was not clear and that it came out rather offensive. Yes I know you have answered this question.

I meant to say and wanted to point out that there should be a centralised place where information of important matter about the project should be placed on. This forum historically is not the best place for that--as we might have experienced in the past and learned from other projects. E.g. project maybe be seen as inactive, info can easily be scattered and lost, etc. A website, however, is a much better place for this. Hence the question; why not put a temporary "under-construction" page?


No problem.

And yes this will exist very soon. I will have a weekly blog post that summarize all the news regarding the Jinn project.
As for why no "under-construction" page, it was simply due to the fact that we're not in a marketing stage yet, but it'll be up soon.

Any update on the content for jinnlabs.com?


Yes, I've decided to launch the website on 1st of Dec at the 2 month mark of Jinn auction so stay tuned!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on November 25, 2014, 04:34:20 pm
Buy your Jinn now, I predict it will hit 500Nxt shortly after Dec 1st.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on November 25, 2014, 09:10:10 pm
Jinn's price soared - https://nxtblocks.info/#section/assets_exchange/market/3061160746493230502
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on November 25, 2014, 10:45:31 pm
Haha, well, it's still way undervalued in my opinion.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: k_day on November 25, 2014, 10:50:23 pm
Haha, well, it's still way undervalued in my opinion.

keep on pumping msin :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on November 25, 2014, 10:58:48 pm
Haha, well, it's still way undervalued in my opinion.

keep on pumping msin :)

I'll try, although I'm long on my holdings, so no benefits for me pumping.  Jinn is pretty exclusive to the Nxt community right now, once it's revealed to the rest of the tech world, it could easily have a market cap that exceeds Nxt in a short period of time.  Just my opinion though, don't invest more than your willing to have CFB lose.  :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Buratino on November 27, 2014, 12:27:43 pm
Yeah. Jinn will be worth over a millions in near future. I am keeping faith in Jinn project and C-f-B's ingenious skills.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on December 01, 2014, 12:28:16 pm
Yes, I've decided to launch the website on 1st of Dec at the 2 month mark of Jinn auction so stay tuned!

Is this still the plan?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on December 01, 2014, 01:44:11 pm
awaiting the webpage!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on December 01, 2014, 04:54:03 pm
Hello everyone!

First about the website:
The choice was made to postpone the official launch of JinnLabs.com until we are closer to a launch. So instead we'll place an aesthetic "Coming soon" placeholder there ( since this was something people wanted ). This decision was reached due to the fact that we are still very much in the R&D stage, it would only make us more vulnerable to competition if we launch a full website with descriptions of our tech and everything we intend to do. We are competing against some of the most resourceful companies in the world, so no reason to make it even harder on ourselves by prematurely showing off. So out of concern for the project and our investors we postpone the launch of the website a little bit. The website will still launch soon, but instead of just an arbitrary launch for the sake of launching, it'll instead be coupled with the official launch of Jiniri Limited and followed up with Aftermath PoC release. ETA on Jiniri Limited and Aftermath is ~1 month. Both are pretty much done, but dependent on the Abra-compiler and testing to optimize both.

Now as promised, here is a comprehensive update on what has been going on in the past 2 months and what will happen in the coming month:

1)

We are now a team of over a dozen experts in various domains. Several got Jinn as their fulltime job, but we also got a lot of part-time consultants that just want to help out in order to make ternary a reality. This thankfully allows us to stay a frugal start-up, so we haven't had to sell a lot of NXT yet.

2)

Our team of professors and electrical engineers are creating the first trit cores which will be intrumental in our future processor architecture. We've also recruited several additional experts that is acting as enthused consultants. Our goal is naturally to have the most competent team in the world when it comes to ternary computing. When this is finished, we will start designing and producing prototypes of the 1st generation processor itself. It's still way too early to give any dates, but we are ahead of schedule in terms of the estimate we made back in October when the auction took place. We've recruited some very intelligent and leading people in this field of computing, so Jinn is already poised to be completed ahead of schedule.

3)

We're almost done with the Abra-compiler, including a comprehensive syntax document that will make it a lot easier to add more and more programming languages, opening Jinn and Jiniri development to more and more programmers.

4)

Jiniri Limited is done and pending full code review (which will happen post-compiler completion). Jiniri is dependent on the compiler, so it's completion stage will commence right afterwards.

5)

Aftermath (Skyrim MMO version) proof-of-concept is well underway in technical development. We're now in the stage of fixing the infrastructure (servers) and prepare a launch. There will also be blockchain based economy in Aftermath, which will utilize the NXT Monetary System technology. So Aftermath is a Proof-of-Concept for both Jiniri and NXT.

6)

Already working on recruiting people who will utilize Jinn and/or Jiniri. So far NXTs own Nexern plans to use it for his FinHive platform, as well as another known blockchain related individual whom I cannot disclose yet. Additionally, we are collaborating with Internet-of-Things inventors and specialists who are coming up with really novel usages for Jinn. The goal is to have some unique products ready by launch of the Jinn itself. If you know anyone who might be interested in this: tell them to contact us.



Additional notice: both me and CfB keep getting PMs from potential investors who are interested in buying either on-market Jinn tokens or the ones we have not sold. We are not investor advisors and thus can not give any advice when it comes to such questions. Neither will we give any additional information to anyone in private. We do not care at all about the day-to-day trading taking place on the asset exchange as it does not impact Jinn at all, so any questions pertaining to peoples speculation of these asset valuations is of no interest to us. Our primary concern is the success of this project in the long run. As we informed in the prospectus, this is a long term investment and commitment.

Finally we'd like to take this oppourtunity to thank all of our investors and everyone that is enthusiastic and supportive of Jinn. Special thanks to Msin who has offered to help in various ways. We are confident that everyone of you will be happy that you joined this journey with us! There are still some things I got to keep under the hood for now, so stay tuned for more updates in the coming weeks ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on December 01, 2014, 05:01:33 pm
First about the website:
The choice was made to postpone the official launch of JinnLabs.com until we are closer to a launch. So instead we'll place an aesthetic "Coming soon" placeholder there ( since this was something people wanted ). This decision was reached due to the fact that we are still very much in the R&D stage, it would only make us more vulnerable to competition if we launch a full website with descriptions of our tech and everything we intend to do. We are competing against some of the most resourceful companies in the world, so no reason to make it even harder on ourselves by prematurely showing off. So out of concern for the project and our investors we postpone the launch of the website a little bit. The website will still launch soon, but instead of just an arbitrary launch for the sake of launching, it'll instead be coupled with the official launch of Jiniri Limited and followed up with Aftermath PoC release. ETA on Jiniri Limited and Aftermath is ~1 month. Both are pretty much done, but dependent on the Abra-compiler and testing to optimize both.

+1. Wise decision!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Berry on December 01, 2014, 06:34:40 pm
That´s exciting. Thanks for the update.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on December 01, 2014, 07:52:16 pm
Thanks for the update, getting really excited! I'd love to read more on the Skyrim MMO mod as I'm still a little cloudy on the subject.  Sounds like it will be good for both Jinn and Nxt.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on December 01, 2014, 08:35:01 pm
Thanks for the update, getting really excited! I'd love to read more on the Skyrim MMO mod as I'm still a little cloudy on the subject.  Sounds like it will be good for both Jinn and Nxt.

http://aftermath.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/2-what-is-aftermath/
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on December 02, 2014, 02:04:50 am
did you consider to implement a game that has not been released yet like. stars citizen? It's a kickstarter, maybe the devs could be more enthousiasts than skyrim one (you did reverse engineering to implement it no?) to involve you in the project?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on December 02, 2014, 04:47:40 am
Thanks for the update, getting really excited! I'd love to read more on the Skyrim MMO mod as I'm still a little cloudy on the subject.  Sounds like it will be good for both Jinn and Nxt.

http://aftermath.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/2-what-is-aftermath/

Great, thank you, good to know there is an Aftermath forum  :)  Anyway, what I wanted to know is how this relates to Jinn exactly, will each participant be running a Jinn processor?  Is this only Skyrim mod only possible with Jinn?  Also, from what I gathered from your posts, it sounds like you could have gone with any number of games but decided on Skyrim because of preference.  Does this mean that you expect others titles (games) to follow?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Windjc on December 02, 2014, 05:51:19 am
Haha, well, it's still way undervalued in my opinion.

I might get blasted for asking this, but why is Jinn undervalued at the moment?  Although there are only 100k assets available, there is still a 90% supply that hasn't hit the market. That's a lot. Jinn already has a $5+ million market cap and currently has only screenshots.  Also there is no VC capital involved - which some might say is a good thing - but good VC money is powerful (if) because the VCs have a background in the technology and can help market it, exposure it and cross brand it, giving it a much higher chance of success.

So, this is still simply a speculative start up (Angel Investor Round development) with a very high risk of failure. And I dont mean that as anything against the project, but just statistically in life and the world as we know it.

This was a good buy at 85 obviously. At 400, risk vs. reward, I tend to disagree.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on December 02, 2014, 08:01:11 am
did you consider to implement a game that has not been released yet like. stars citizen? It's a kickstarter, maybe the devs could be more enthousiasts than skyrim one (you did reverse engineering to implement it no?) to involve you in the project?

No.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on December 02, 2014, 08:08:28 am
Great, thank you, good to know there is an Aftermath forum  :)  Anyway, what I wanted to know is how this relates to Jinn exactly, will each participant be running a Jinn processor?  Is this only Skyrim mod only possible with Jinn?  Also, from what I gathered from your posts, it sounds like you could have gone with any number of games but decided on Skyrim because of preference.  Does this mean that you expect others titles (games) to follow?

Server part is based on Jiniri and is game-agnostic. Players don't need to run Jinn. Other games are possible too with some modifications of the client part (Fallout 3 would need very little changes because it uses the same engine, GTA would need more effort). I don't expect other titles to follow, one proof-of-concept game should be enough to nail details of Jiniri.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: semibaron on December 02, 2014, 08:10:00 am
So, you didn't convert all NXT directly to fiat?
What are you doing in case of NXT plumping?

What are you going to do with the other 90%? Will they be sold? On Which market?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on December 02, 2014, 02:42:56 pm
Haha, well, it's still way undervalued in my opinion.

I might get blasted for asking this, but why is Jinn undervalued at the moment?  Although there are only 100k assets available, there is still a 90% supply that hasn't hit the market. That's a lot. Jinn already has a $5+ million market cap and currently has only screenshots.  Also there is no VC capital involved - which some might say is a good thing - but good VC money is powerful (if) because the VCs have a background in the technology and can help market it, exposure it and cross brand it, giving it a much higher chance of success.

So, this is still simply a speculative start up (Angel Investor Round development) with a very high risk of failure. And I dont mean that as anything against the project, but just statistically in life and the world as we know it.

This was a good buy at 85 obviously. At 400, risk vs. reward, I tend to disagree.

BlockStream raised $21Mil (at god knows what valuation) based on a whitepaper and a reputable team.  Jinn has a reputable team and much more than a whitepaper, it's a product that could reach far beyond crypto, therefore I think it's undervalued.  I also think Nxt is very undervalued as well as BTC.  VC's valuation is often just a negotiated #.  I can see Jinn at 1000 Nxt after Jinri and abra release as it will garner interest from many parties outside of crypto.  This of course is my opinion.  It will be interesting because the Jinn group isn't interested in the price of the Asset or promoting the Asset, so it could stay low even after people are using Jinn. 
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Windjc on December 03, 2014, 01:34:33 am
Haha, well, it's still way undervalued in my opinion.

I might get blasted for asking this, but why is Jinn undervalued at the moment?  Although there are only 100k assets available, there is still a 90% supply that hasn't hit the market. That's a lot. Jinn already has a $5+ million market cap and currently has only screenshots.  Also there is no VC capital involved - which some might say is a good thing - but good VC money is powerful (if) because the VCs have a background in the technology and can help market it, exposure it and cross brand it, giving it a much higher chance of success.

So, this is still simply a speculative start up (Angel Investor Round development) with a very high risk of failure. And I dont mean that as anything against the project, but just statistically in life and the world as we know it.

This was a good buy at 85 obviously. At 400, risk vs. reward, I tend to disagree.

BlockStream raised $21Mil (at god knows what valuation) based on a whitepaper and a reputable team.  Jinn has a reputable team and much more than a whitepaper, it's a product that could reach far beyond crypto, therefore I think it's undervalued.  I also think Nxt is very undervalued as well as BTC.  VC's valuation is often just a negotiated #.  I can see Jinn at 1000 Nxt after Jinri and abra release as it will garner interest from many parties outside of crypto.  This of course is my opinion.  It will be interesting because the Jinn group isn't interested in the price of the Asset or promoting the Asset, so it could stay low even after people are using Jinn.

To say the development group is not interested in the price of an asset they own 90% of is a little disingenuous. However, I appreciate your opinion. You don't discount the speculative nature of this.

I happen to think an asset like SuperNet is a much safer buy, as it too has technology that can spread far past crypto and is backed by actual tangible assets to account for its price.  And its also about 40% cheaper than Jinn atm. And is diversified into many different areas and technologies.

I wish Jinn well. I would be an awesome story for Nxt.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on December 03, 2014, 03:33:22 am
Haha, well, it's still way undervalued in my opinion.

I might get blasted for asking this, but why is Jinn undervalued at the moment?  Although there are only 100k assets available, there is still a 90% supply that hasn't hit the market. That's a lot. Jinn already has a $5+ million market cap and currently has only screenshots.  Also there is no VC capital involved - which some might say is a good thing - but good VC money is powerful (if) because the VCs have a background in the technology and can help market it, exposure it and cross brand it, giving it a much higher chance of success.

So, this is still simply a speculative start up (Angel Investor Round development) with a very high risk of failure. And I dont mean that as anything against the project, but just statistically in life and the world as we know it.

This was a good buy at 85 obviously. At 400, risk vs. reward, I tend to disagree.

BlockStream raised $21Mil (at god knows what valuation) based on a whitepaper and a reputable team.  Jinn has a reputable team and much more than a whitepaper, it's a product that could reach far beyond crypto, therefore I think it's undervalued.  I also think Nxt is very undervalued as well as BTC.  VC's valuation is often just a negotiated #.  I can see Jinn at 1000 Nxt after Jinri and abra release as it will garner interest from many parties outside of crypto.  This of course is my opinion.  It will be interesting because the Jinn group isn't interested in the price of the Asset or promoting the Asset, so it could stay low even after people are using Jinn.

To say the development group is not interested in the price of an asset they own 90% of is a little disingenuous. However, I appreciate your opinion. You don't discount the speculative nature of this.

I happen to think an asset like SuperNet is a much safer buy, as it too has technology that can spread far past crypto and is backed by actual tangible assets to account for its price.  And its also about 40% cheaper than Jinn atm. And is diversified into many different areas and technologies.

I wish Jinn well. I would be an awesome story for Nxt.

I hope for our sake they are interested in the price, but what I mean is they aren't interested in pumping the price.  Unlike traditional Crypto's, there is no exit point for Jinn via Nxt or BTC, Jinn doesn't care how much Asset holders are going to make, they are more worried about launching a working product.  I would disagree with SuperNet being a safer buy.  SuperNet group is anonymous, it's like an aggregate of Alt's.  It's a great project, don't get me wrong.  Bitcoin is the entry point for all Crypto, it's where everyone will buy in before they learn about anything else.  Jinn isn't a crypto, so it's an alternative entry point.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Neomadra on December 03, 2014, 12:25:54 pm
Jinnlabs.com is down. This makes no good impression for people who are interested in this project. Some people will even immediately think of scam, if they see that the website is down. So please put a temporary website online just to show that Jinn still exists.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rlh on December 03, 2014, 12:44:13 pm
Jinnlabs.com is down. This makes no good impression for people who are interested in this project. Some people will even immediately think of scam, if they see that the website is down. So please put a temporary website online just to show that Jinn still exists.

Ditto on the site being down.  I just came here to report it.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: crimi on December 03, 2014, 01:57:28 pm
Jinnlabs.com is down. This makes no good impression for people who are interested in this project. Some people will even immediately think of scam, if they see that the website is down. So please put a temporary website online just to show that Jinn still exists.

Ditto on the site being down.  I just came here to report it.
http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/ (http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/)

One of the most successful company in the world... Thats the good old times without bootstrap.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on December 03, 2014, 02:14:02 pm
http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/ (http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/)
One of the most successful company in the world... Thats the good old times without bootstrap.

Interesting. It is not beautiful, but simple and useful.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on December 03, 2014, 05:47:29 pm

http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/ (http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/)

One of the most successful company in the world... Thats the good old times without bootstrap.

(-; try to re-size the browser window and look how the text is scaling -> very nice ;-)

And btw, what is it always about the jinnlabs web page?
If you guys need something to reed - just reed this thread and the other one in nxt forum projects.
This will answer your questions.

- or are this "web page" and "asset value"  a joke I don't get ?


Edit: to be constructive:
         for all who read almost everything, there is a nice summary of all info's:
         https://nxtforum.org/(chinese)/jinnlabs-com/ (https://nxtforum.org/(chinese)/jinnlabs-com/)


cheers!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: crimi on December 03, 2014, 06:52:47 pm
(-; try to re-size the browser window and look how the text is scaling -> very nice ;-)

That fancy warren buffet.

But its not bootstrap not even css. Just skilled html.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on December 03, 2014, 07:50:20 pm
absolutely!
and also the (one:) advertisement is in "cooperate design" :)


I try to resist, to put out an analogy about there disclaimer and Jinnlabs))
Edit: I mean the lines above the disclaimer-link...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on December 03, 2014, 10:05:18 pm
Edit: to be constructive:
         for all who read almost everything, there is a nice summary of all info's:
         https://nxtforum.org/(chinese)/jinnlabs-com/ (https://nxtforum.org/(chinese)/jinnlabs-com/)


cheers!

 :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on December 03, 2014, 10:58:42 pm
The website holder is up, (www.jinnlabs.com) there were some propogation issues and it's not yet optimized for mobile. Will fix that tomorrow.

There seems to be quite a lot of confusion surrounding this whole website issue, so I'll clear this up right now: we are not an online service company. We are not yet selling anything and so a website is the least important aspect of our business. The trend of a lot of start-ups today is to create a nice looking website, talk about how they are going to change the world, spend an irresponsibly amount of time flirting with investors and then cash in and equallly recklessly spend/waste it. This is not our strategy.

We are only concerned about the actual product R&D right now. This is also why we chose to publish a prospectus with only the relevant info, no fancy graphics or show. Marketing will come when it's time. We already have a 90% finished website for the Jiniri Limited launch, but as I explained in the last update just a couple of days ago: we have chosen not to launch it because:

1) No reason to make us more vulnerable to competition. Business is viciously competitive and cut throat.
2) We are not yet selling any product.

I can assure everyone that OF COURSE we care about the long term value of Jinn, Jinn is our company, Jinn is our fulltime job and Jinn is our baby. But the way to run a start-up is not to worry about the day to day value fluctuations of tokens on a decentralized asset exchange which itself is tied to an equally volatile cryptocurrency. This is not a pump and dump asset that has some ambiguous undefined purpose with a vague promise of potential profit at some misty date in the future. Jinn is a product by a serious start-up with a crystal clear vision that happened to choose to seek its funding through the unorthodox means of crypto due to it's founders being crypto-veterans and enthusiasts. Everyone who invested in the auction invested in the product that is to be Jinn and Jiniri, not a random pump and dump coin.

As a crypto-veteran and trader myself I can obviously sympathize with those who have invested in Jinn due to it's status and who may employ a short term high/low trading strategy. However this is not our concern and we will not do anything to artificially impact the price in either direction, ever, period.
That being said, the vast majority of our supporters is in it for the long haul and the technology itself, which is fantastic! And anyone who got any questions; feel free to ask them in this thread and we will answer them as soon as possible.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on December 03, 2014, 11:57:45 pm
the placeholder is not working for me... server problem.

Glad to hear everything else - I'm excited about the development of the tech and product.

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on December 04, 2014, 12:15:08 am
the placeholder is not working for me... server problem.

Glad to hear everything else - I'm excited about the development of the tech and product.

If you can see: http://www.jinnlabs.com/jinn-is-coming-soon-1/ then it's probably just propogating still
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on December 04, 2014, 12:39:11 am
The website looks pretty good on my iPad.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rdanneskjoldr on December 04, 2014, 12:52:31 am
I also tried from my ipad and computer and it doesnt work for me.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Fatih87SK on December 04, 2014, 07:09:39 am
the placeholder is not working for me... server problem.

Glad to hear everything else - I'm excited about the development of the tech and product.

If you can see: http://www.jinnlabs.com/jinn-is-coming-soon-1/ then it's probably just propogating still

A small detail;

(Fragment of the website);

(http://i.imgur.com/rqEOlqm.png)

On the left (see picture) and on the right of my screen the image 'loops'.

My resolution is 1920 x 1080.

Good luck with the project.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Neomadra on December 04, 2014, 10:23:53 am
Jinnlabs.com is down. This makes no good impression for people who are interested in this project. Some people will even immediately think of scam, if they see that the website is down. So please put a temporary website online just to show that Jinn still exists.

Ditto on the site being down.  I just came here to report it.
http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/ (http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/)

One of the most successful company in the world... Thats the good old times without bootstrap.
Really? Is this your argument?  You compare apples with bananas. I don't expect a fancy website at all, I don't even own Jinn yet, I just wanted to give some feedback. Jinn shares have been issued on the asset exchange and people that see Jinn eg.  on coinmarketcap and click on the link that is dead they will immediately think of scam because this is most often true in crypto. If you don't see that...
As I said, it's not about having a fancy website.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Windjc on December 04, 2014, 10:54:06 am
Haha, well, it's still way undervalued in my opinion.

I might get blasted for asking this, but why is Jinn undervalued at the moment?  Although there are only 100k assets available, there is still a 90% supply that hasn't hit the market. That's a lot. Jinn already has a $5+ million market cap and currently has only screenshots.  Also there is no VC capital involved - which some might say is a good thing - but good VC money is powerful (if) because the VCs have a background in the technology and can help market it, exposure it and cross brand it, giving it a much higher chance of success.

So, this is still simply a speculative start up (Angel Investor Round development) with a very high risk of failure. And I dont mean that as anything against the project, but just statistically in life and the world as we know it.

This was a good buy at 85 obviously. At 400, risk vs. reward, I tend to disagree.

BlockStream raised $21Mil (at god knows what valuation) based on a whitepaper and a reputable team.  Jinn has a reputable team and much more than a whitepaper, it's a product that could reach far beyond crypto, therefore I think it's undervalued.  I also think Nxt is very undervalued as well as BTC.  VC's valuation is often just a negotiated #.  I can see Jinn at 1000 Nxt after Jinri and abra release as it will garner interest from many parties outside of crypto.  This of course is my opinion.  It will be interesting because the Jinn group isn't interested in the price of the Asset or promoting the Asset, so it could stay low even after people are using Jinn.

To say the development group is not interested in the price of an asset they own 90% of is a little disingenuous. However, I appreciate your opinion. You don't discount the speculative nature of this.

I happen to think an asset like SuperNet is a much safer buy, as it too has technology that can spread far past crypto and is backed by actual tangible assets to account for its price.  And its also about 40% cheaper than Jinn atm. And is diversified into many different areas and technologies.

I wish Jinn well. I would be an awesome story for Nxt.

I hope for our sake they are interested in the price, but what I mean is they aren't interested in pumping the price.  Unlike traditional Crypto's, there is no exit point for Jinn via Nxt or BTC, Jinn doesn't care how much Asset holders are going to make, they are more worried about launching a working product.  I would disagree with SuperNet being a safer buy.  SuperNet group is anonymous, it's like an aggregate of Alt's.  It's a great project, don't get me wrong.  Bitcoin is the entry point for all Crypto, it's where everyone will buy in before they learn about anything else.  Jinn isn't a crypto, so it's an alternative entry point.

SuperNet is much more than an aggregate of alts. Have you seen Skynet? There are a lot of technologies being built in and around SuperNet that extend far beyond crypto.

Jinn has a VC exit strategy, that is inherently risky unless the programmers are well connected. SuperNet is a fully distributed asset with value backing and cannot be deflated by supply hitting the market. Does it have its own risks? Sure. But much less than Jinn imo. But again, I hope it is successful. (and as long as Jinn can only be bought with Nxt, it does have a crypto entry point ;))
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on December 04, 2014, 03:21:19 pm
Jinn has a VC exit strategy, that is inherently risky unless the programmers are well connected. SuperNet is a fully distributed asset with value backing and cannot be deflated by supply hitting the market. Does it have its own risks? Sure. But much less than Jinn imo. But again, I hope it is successful. (and as long as Jinn can only be bought with Nxt, it does have a crypto entry point ;))

Not sure why you would assume Jinn has a VC exit strategy.  Jinn asset can only be bought with Nxt, but Jinn processor will eventually be sold like a Raspi.  Regardless both projects are really good for Crypto and Nxt, so I support both of them.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: devphp on December 05, 2014, 07:07:04 pm
Is the Aftermath going to be just a demo (proof of concept) or a fully fledged mod for Skyrim gamers?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on December 05, 2014, 08:29:07 pm
Is the Aftermath going to be just a demo (proof of concept) or a fully fledged mod for Skyrim gamers?

Fully fledged if everything goes according to plan
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Cryptobonds Team on December 06, 2014, 11:19:39 pm
Keep going on this way!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on December 07, 2014, 01:07:11 am
i would like to be notified the second Aftermath is available for testing/play.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jabo38 on December 07, 2014, 12:38:06 pm
Haha, well, it's still way undervalued in my opinion.

I might get blasted for asking this, but why is Jinn undervalued at the moment?  Although there are only 100k assets available, there is still a 90% supply that hasn't hit the market. That's a lot. Jinn already has a $5+ million market cap and currently has only screenshots.  Also there is no VC capital involved - which some might say is a good thing - but good VC money is powerful (if) because the VCs have a background in the technology and can help market it, exposure it and cross brand it, giving it a much higher chance of success.

So, this is still simply a speculative start up (Angel Investor Round development) with a very high risk of failure. And I dont mean that as anything against the project, but just statistically in life and the world as we know it.

This was a good buy at 85 obviously. At 400, risk vs. reward, I tend to disagree.

BlockStream raised $21Mil (at god knows what valuation) based on a whitepaper and a reputable team.  Jinn has a reputable team and much more than a whitepaper, it's a product that could reach far beyond crypto, therefore I think it's undervalued.  I also think Nxt is very undervalued as well as BTC.  VC's valuation is often just a negotiated #.  I can see Jinn at 1000 Nxt after Jinri and abra release as it will garner interest from many parties outside of crypto.  This of course is my opinion.  It will be interesting because the Jinn group isn't interested in the price of the Asset or promoting the Asset, so it could stay low even after people are using Jinn.

To say the development group is not interested in the price of an asset they own 90% of is a little disingenuous. However, I appreciate your opinion. You don't discount the speculative nature of this.

I happen to think an asset like SuperNet is a much safer buy, as it too has technology that can spread far past crypto and is backed by actual tangible assets to account for its price.  And its also about 40% cheaper than Jinn atm. And is diversified into many different areas and technologies.

I wish Jinn well. I would be an awesome story for Nxt.

I hope for our sake they are interested in the price, but what I mean is they aren't interested in pumping the price.  Unlike traditional Crypto's, there is no exit point for Jinn via Nxt or BTC, Jinn doesn't care how much Asset holders are going to make, they are more worried about launching a working product.  I would disagree with SuperNet being a safer buy.  SuperNet group is anonymous, it's like an aggregate of Alt's.  It's a great project, don't get me wrong.  Bitcoin is the entry point for all Crypto, it's where everyone will buy in before they learn about anything else.  Jinn isn't a crypto, so it's an alternative entry point.

SuperNet is much more than an aggregate of alts. Have you seen Skynet? There are a lot of technologies being built in and around SuperNet that extend far beyond crypto.

Jinn has a VC exit strategy, that is inherently risky unless the programmers are well connected. SuperNet is a fully distributed asset with value backing and cannot be deflated by supply hitting the market. Does it have its own risks? Sure. But much less than Jinn imo. But again, I hope it is successful. (and as long as Jinn can only be bought with Nxt, it does have a crypto entry point ;))

I think CfB has a very proven history of doing bad ass things and breaking the mold.  To be honest, I still don't even understand Jinn, but I didn't invest in Jinn, I invested in CfB. 
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: semibaron on December 09, 2014, 04:21:30 am
So, you didn't convert all NXT directly to fiat?
What are you doing in case of NXT plumping?

NXT is on a decline again. Please answer this question.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: prometheus on December 09, 2014, 05:00:51 am
So, you didn't convert all NXT directly to fiat?
What are you doing in case of NXT plumping?

NXT is on a decline again. Please answer this question.

some are speculating it is due to the mining assets. discussion is in the Price thread i believe
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: semibaron on December 09, 2014, 07:54:08 am
So, you didn't convert all NXT directly to fiat?
What are you doing in case of NXT plumping?

NXT is on a decline again. Please answer this question.

some are speculating it is due to the mining assets. discussion is in the Price thread i believe

Doesn't matter what cause. When 1 NXT = $0.00 how will the Jinn project being financed?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: DrearyUrbanite on December 09, 2014, 12:18:52 pm
So, you didn't convert all NXT directly to fiat?
What are you doing in case of NXT plumping?

NXT is on a decline again. Please answer this question.

some are speculating it is due to the mining assets. discussion is in the Price thread i believe

Doesn't matter what cause. When 1 NXT = $0.00 how will the Jinn project being financed?

At present 1 NXT can never = $0.00. They would all be bought long before the price got even close to that level.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: semibaron on December 09, 2014, 12:37:28 pm
So, you didn't convert all NXT directly to fiat?
What are you doing in case of NXT plumping?

NXT is on a decline again. Please answer this question.

NXT = $0.00 was just an example. The IPO was around NXT = $0.30 and is now $0.17.
If the raised NXT weren't converted to fiat right after the IPO, Jinn lost already a large amount of money to finance the project.
So, how does the Jinn management calculate the cost? What will Jinn do when NXT hit $0.15 or lower?

some are speculating it is due to the mining assets. discussion is in the Price thread i believe

Doesn't matter what cause. When 1 NXT = $0.00 how will the Jinn project being financed?

At present 1 NXT can never = $0.00. They would all be bought long before the price got even close to that level.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: achim on December 09, 2014, 12:44:48 pm
NXT = $0.00 was just an example. The IPO was around NXT = $0.30 and is now $0.17.
If the raised NXT weren't converted to fiat right after the IPO, Jinn lost already a large amount of money to finance the project.
So, how does the Jinn management calculate the cost? What will Jinn do when NXT hit $0.15 or lower?

Not if the devs agreed to a fixed salary denominated in Nxt.

And it seems that CfB wants to deliver Aftermath (and Jiniri, and Jinn processor) no matter what (I interpret that because he doesn't paticipate in many discussions anymore :'()
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: semibaron on December 09, 2014, 01:10:27 pm
NXT = $0.00 was just an example. The IPO was around NXT = $0.30 and is now $0.17.
If the raised NXT weren't converted to fiat right after the IPO, Jinn lost already a large amount of money to finance the project.
So, how does the Jinn management calculate the cost? What will Jinn do when NXT hit $0.15 or lower?

Not if the devs agreed to a fixed salary denominated in Nxt.

And it seems that CfB wants to deliver Aftermath (and Jiniri, and Jinn processor) no matter what (I interpret that because he doesn't paticipate in many discussions anymore :'()

Triangle said there are a lot of people involved, many outside this forum.
Jinn is not a NXT project. I don't believe those contributors accept NXT as their salary.
Moreover, Jinn has to be produced somewhere. Probably at Samsung/TSMC or other chip manufacturers.
They don't accept NXT for sure.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on December 09, 2014, 01:12:02 pm
Read the thread. I think Triangle answered your questions already.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on December 09, 2014, 01:12:41 pm

... The IPO was around NXT = $0.30 and is now $0.17.
If the raised NXT weren't converted to fiat right after the IPO, Jinn lost already a large amount of money to finance the project.
So, how does the Jinn management calculate the cost? ...


what are you talking about? cost's?
its just math.
only the project name suggest some mystical things...

cost = revenues - expenses

please let me fix your example:

you say:  nxt is decreased by ~  2times compared IPO date.
but the asset is increased by ~ 3.5times compared IPO date.
=> makes an global capital increase - in my eyes.


Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: semibaron on December 09, 2014, 01:20:07 pm

... The IPO was around NXT = $0.30 and is now $0.17.
If the raised NXT weren't converted to fiat right after the IPO, Jinn lost already a large amount of money to finance the project.
So, how does the Jinn management calculate the cost? ...


what are you talking about? cost's?
its just math.
only the project name suggest some mystical things...

cost = revenues - expenses

please let me fix your example:

you say:  nxt is decreased by ~  2times compared IPO date.
but the asset is increased by ~ 3.5times compared IPO date.
=> makes an global capital increase - in my eyes.

That is the share price right now, which isn't important.
Amount of NXT raised during IPO was 160NXT/share with 1NXT~$0.30.
NXT raised via IPO is the working capital from which everything has to be paid.
Jinn could sell another batch of shares for a second fund raising.
While the value of 1NXT decreased, Jinn has less money in $ terms.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: buybitcoinscanada on December 09, 2014, 01:25:08 pm
a
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on December 09, 2014, 01:33:21 pm

That is the share price right now, which isn't important.
...


that would imply current nxt price isn't important too.
what was your question?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: semibaron on December 09, 2014, 01:45:03 pm

That is the share price right now, which isn't important.
...


that would imply current nxt price isn't important too.
what was your question?


Maybe we speak different languages, sorry. Jinn raised X amount NXT. X was worth Y$ at time of IPO.
Now X is worth Z$, with Z<Y. Amount of X didn't change over time.

The question: While NXT is on the decline, X was converted into $, will X be worth enough $ to complete Jinn?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rlh on December 09, 2014, 02:00:41 pm
Semibaron, I understand your concern but I don't think it's an issue.  It is my assumption (if I recall correctly from chitchat on this thread) that the IPO was to raise a bit of "safety net" funding.  If the funding isn't enough and they absolutely needed to raise more funds, they could sell new shares.  Since they held a large portion of the stake, selling an extra 5, 10, 20 percent wouldn't have much bearing on the price of the asset.

I doubt that day will come, but that's how it could work fairly in a worst case scenario.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on December 09, 2014, 02:04:53 pm
Jinn raised X amount NXT. X was worth Y$ at time of IPO.
Now X is worth Z$, with Z<Y. Amount of X didn't change over time.

The question: While NXT is on the decline, X was converted into $, will X be worth enough $ to complete Jinn?

please realize the fact that they raised money by selling shares.
if you achieved this, you get the answer of your question ;-)

cheers!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on December 09, 2014, 02:10:00 pm
The question: While NXT is on the decline, X was converted into $, will X be worth enough $ to complete Jinn?

Jiniri is supposed to be monetized. Price of 1 NXT may be irrelevant at all.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on December 09, 2014, 02:24:19 pm
Semibaron is indeed correct in that we have a lot less funds now than we did after auction. We also mentioned this in the risk section of the prospectus, this is one of the facts that make this a high-risk investment, our funds are tied up in a highly volatile crypto that could *in theory* crash the second the auction was over, at which point we'd have nothing.

However we obviously anticipated the potential for a crash and converted a significant portion into bitcoin and fiat to make sure we had all immediate costs taken care of. So we have the ability to pay for our main developers and begin the hardware prototyping. We're a very frugal start-up. Of course the absolute best thing for Jinn would be that NXT price went north again, this would allow us to move ahead much faster without worrying about suddenly running cash-dry.

But it's also true as others have mentioned: we intend to finish this no matter what. The potential is too great to not do everything imaginable to make sure this project succeeds. And with Jiniri monetization we plan to generate revenue long before Jinn chip.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Funkylump on December 10, 2014, 12:02:16 pm
Sorry to bring the conversation back to a topic that has been addressed but I don't think Triangle realizes why the website is important. Even without a completed product to offer, we still want clear information about the project.

We, the supporters, have invested in your dream because we too believe in it and we believe you can make it a reality. It's ok that you don't have a finished product. You communicated your plan (through your website) and we funded the dream. For the time being, that information is your product. But now, for some strange reason, you took that information away.

Jinn is one of the few projects that I'm aware of that is being funded through crypto but has scope far beyond it. Even people who don't believe in bitcoin can still believe in Jinn. I want to be able to tell my friends to check out what you guys are doing and help garner interest, but there is nowhere to direct them.

The website doesn't have to be fancy, but at least somewhat informative. Please don't give info then take it away.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rlh on December 10, 2014, 01:01:59 pm
+1.  At least put a converted PDF of the prospectus up.  Speaking of, the link to the prospectus was broken the other day.  Can we get a new link?  I have a couple questions but I think they were answered in your original documents.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on December 10, 2014, 01:04:56 pm
Sorry to bring the conversation back to a topic that has been addressed but I don't think Triangle realizes why the website is important. Even without a completed product to offer, we still want clear information about the project.

We, the supporters, have invested in your dream because we too believe in it and we believe you can make it a reality. It's ok that you don't have a finished product. You communicated your plan (through your website) and we funded the dream. For the time being, that information is your product. But now, for some strange reason, you took that information away.

Jinn is one of the few projects that I'm aware of that is being funded through crypto but has scope far beyond it. Even people who don't believe in bitcoin can still believe in Jinn. I want to be able to tell my friends to check out what you guys are doing and help garner interest, but there is nowhere to direct them.

The website doesn't have to be fancy, but at least somewhat informative. Please don't give info then take it away.

I can say nothing related to financial and administrative areas, but I can update on technical part.

Right now I'm working on Aftermath. I call it a Skyrim mod, but this is only for convenience of people who don't know the details. Actually, the main goal of Aftermath is to "prove the concept", not to create a mod. In plain English it means that I'll write a backend using Jiniri and then Skyrim fans will run their game that will work as a viewport to Aftermath. Some players could run, for example, Fallout New Vegas, or GTA, or Assassin's Creed and play together in the same world, but you can imagine what a mess this would be.

I had planned to run an alpha-test in a week or two, but suddenly completed the tasks much earlier. While I'm waiting for hardware to deploy the backend too, I'm writing some extra stuff for Aftermath (like a chat). The test aims to do two things - test networking part and collect statistics. Now players can only travel around the world, interact with environment and chat. They can't craft nor fight, they don't even have animation yet, only static models. This will be added later, after statistical model of the world is built.

As I said players could run any game (some modifications required though) and connect to Aftermath. The backend is game agnostic, but some info is required to prevent cheating. By travelling alpha-testers will be creating waypoints, this will allow the backend to detect cases when a player attempts to repeat such a trick - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v-R-VhpEfA - and ban him.

If someone wants to take part in the test - download the latest English version of Skyrim from Steam. A cracked version may not work (not sure, depends on changes in the executable file). There will be special tasks for the testers, their completion will be granted with in-game gold that could be used to buy houses and other stuff in Aftermath. Tasks, bug reports and special events are supposed to be the only way to get gold (I don't count selling in-game items to other players, this is mainly what the gold will be used for).
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: maxll on December 11, 2014, 07:29:43 am
How do you do think is it possible in a future that we could convert some MS-based coins to ingame gold?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Uniqueorn on December 11, 2014, 01:36:00 pm
edited
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on December 11, 2014, 01:41:25 pm
Sorry to bring the conversation back to a topic that has been addressed but I don't think Triangle realizes why the website is important. Even without a completed product to offer, we still want clear information about the project.

We, the supporters, have invested in your dream because we too believe in it and we believe you can make it a reality. It's ok that you don't have a finished product. You communicated your plan (through your website) and we funded the dream. For the time being, that information is your product. But now, for some strange reason, you took that information away.

Jinn is one of the few projects that I'm aware of that is being funded through crypto but has scope far beyond it. Even people who don't believe in bitcoin can still believe in Jinn. I want to be able to tell my friends to check out what you guys are doing and help garner interest, but there is nowhere to direct them.

The website doesn't have to be fancy, but at least somewhat informative. Please don't give info then take it away.


I can understand your sentiment, but we have indeed given info in this thread and updates. I realize that of course as an investor you want as much info as possible, but from week to week there is often no more to report than "X more lines of code written" and "Dicussed CPU architecture with X" and "Our electrical engineers did this thing" and that is exactly the sort of updates I have given. Plus we've already informed everyone that they can check out the repository on github.com/Come-from-Beyond/


The reason we decided against giving out the sort of updates I think you are more interested in E.G. future plans for Jinn and Jiniri, how they will fit into the market, strategic choices etc. is simply because we want to protect your investment by getting to some milestones (release Jiniri Limited and Aftermath as Proof of Concept) before we open ourselves up to more competition. Don't forget that the competition got tens of billions of dollars, we don't even have a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of that, plus most of it is in crypto. This is David vs 10 Goliaths, and while we feel confident that once again David will win, we don't want to make it extra hard on ourselves just yet.


But like we've promised, as soon as Jiniri Limited and Aftermath can be released, we will release the full website and at that time start light marketing for the entire project. At that point we'd love everyones help to spread our vision.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Fatih87SK on December 11, 2014, 01:47:24 pm
Sorry to bring the conversation back to a topic that has been addressed but I don't think Triangle realizes why the website is important. Even without a completed product to offer, we still want clear information about the project.

We, the supporters, have invested in your dream because we too believe in it and we believe you can make it a reality. It's ok that you don't have a finished product. You communicated your plan (through your website) and we funded the dream. For the time being, that information is your product. But now, for some strange reason, you took that information away.

Jinn is one of the few projects that I'm aware of that is being funded through crypto but has scope far beyond it. Even people who don't believe in bitcoin can still believe in Jinn. I want to be able to tell my friends to check out what you guys are doing and help garner interest, but there is nowhere to direct them.

The website doesn't have to be fancy, but at least somewhat informative. Please don't give info then take it away.


I can understand your sentiment, but we have indeed given info in this thread and updates. I realize that of course as an investor you want as much info as possible, but from week to week there is often no more to report than "X more lines of code written" and "Dicussed CPU architecture with X" and "Our electrical engineers did this thing" and that is exactly the sort of updates I have given. Plus we've already informed everyone that they can check out the repository on github.com/Come-from-Beyond/


The reason we decided against giving out the sort of updates I think you are more interested in E.G. future plans for Jinn and Jiniri, how they will fit into the market, strategic choices etc. is simply because we want to protect your investment by getting to some milestones (release Jiniri Limited and Aftermath as Proof of Concept) before we open ourselves up to more competition. Don't forget that the competition got tens of billions of dollars, we don't even have a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of that, plus most of it is in crypto. This is David vs 10 Goliaths, and while we feel confident that once again David will win, we don't want to make it extra hard on ourselves just yet.


But like we've promised, as soon as Jiniri Limited and Aftermath can be released, we will release the full website and at that time start light marketing for the entire project. At that point we'd love everyones help to spread our vision.

I think you misunderstand Funkylump.

He is looking for the information we all read before we participated with the dutch auction.

He can't find this information, because you took the website offline.  ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Funkylump on December 12, 2014, 12:53:46 am
Yes. Exactly as Fatih87SK said.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gbcholgi on December 12, 2014, 03:37:13 pm
Sorry to bring the conversation back to a topic that has been addressed but I don't think Triangle realizes why the website is important. Even without a completed product to offer, we still want clear information about the project.

We, the supporters, have invested in your dream because we too believe in it and we believe you can make it a reality. It's ok that you don't have a finished product. You communicated your plan (through your website) and we funded the dream. For the time being, that information is your product. But now, for some strange reason, you took that information away.

Jinn is one of the few projects that I'm aware of that is being funded through crypto but has scope far beyond it. Even people who don't believe in bitcoin can still believe in Jinn. I want to be able to tell my friends to check out what you guys are doing and help garner interest, but there is nowhere to direct them.

The website doesn't have to be fancy, but at least somewhat informative. Please don't give info then take it away.

I can say nothing related to financial and administrative areas, but I can update on technical part.

Right now I'm working on Aftermath. I call it a Skyrim mod, but this is only for convenience of people who don't know the details. Actually, the main goal of Aftermath is to "prove the concept", not to create a mod. In plain English it means that I'll write a backend using Jiniri and then Skyrim fans will run their game that will work as a viewport to Aftermath. Some players could run, for example, Fallout New Vegas, or GTA, or Assassin's Creed and play together in the same world, but you can imagine what a mess this would be.

I had planned to run an alpha-test in a week or two, but suddenly completed the tasks much earlier. While I'm waiting for hardware to deploy the backend too, I'm writing some extra stuff for Aftermath (like a chat). The test aims to do two things - test networking part and collect statistics. Now players can only travel around the world, interact with environment and chat. They can't craft nor fight, they don't even have animation yet, only static models. This will be added later, after statistical model of the world is built.

As I said players could run any game (some modifications required though) and connect to Aftermath. The backend is game agnostic, but some info is required to prevent cheating. By travelling alpha-testers will be creating waypoints, this will allow the backend to detect cases when a player attempts to repeat such a trick - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v-R-VhpEfA - and ban him.

If someone wants to take part in the test - download the latest English version of Skyrim from Steam. A cracked version may not work (not sure, depends on changes in the executable file). There will be special tasks for the testers, their completion will be granted with in-game gold that could be used to buy houses and other stuff in Aftermath. Tasks, bug reports and special events are supposed to be the only way to get gold (I don't count selling in-game items to other players, this is mainly what the gold will be used for).

ok, is there a first task? how to start?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on December 12, 2014, 03:41:16 pm
ok, is there a first task? how to start?

There will be an announcement on http://aftermath.ipbhost.com/ in several days.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on December 12, 2014, 05:02:00 pm
Yes. Exactly as Fatih87SK said.

as someone mentioned before, here is a copy of the original information you were looking for - https://nxtforum.org/(chinese)/jinnlabs-com/ ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on December 14, 2014, 09:44:16 pm
http://aftermath.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/4-alpha-1/
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Nxter on December 14, 2014, 10:50:36 pm
http://aftermath.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/4-alpha-1/

is it necessary to own Skyrim for the alpha testing?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: sadface on December 14, 2014, 11:03:30 pm
http://aftermath.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/4-alpha-1/

is it necessary to own Skyrim for the alpha testing?

Quote
1. Download "aftermath.zip" attached to this post (it contains "aftermath.exe" and "aftermath.dll")

2. Unzip the files into Skyrim folder (where "TESV.exe" is situated)

from the installation instructions.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on December 15, 2014, 12:22:15 am
http://aftermath.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/4-alpha-1/

awesome! will test after download!  :D

so which version of skyrim will i need?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on December 15, 2014, 05:22:48 am
Quote
http://aftermath.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/3-installation-launch-and-deinstallation-of-aftermath/

4. Make a copy of "Data\Skyrim.esm" named "Data\aftermath.espesm" (the files must reside in "Data" subfolder) and activate it via Skyrim Launcher (Data Files option).


Typo, otherwise the game would crash right after launch.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Darkhorse on December 15, 2014, 06:43:05 am
Still need skyrim to use the file right?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on December 15, 2014, 06:57:50 am
Still need skyrim to use the file right?

yes, that is for sure.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on December 15, 2014, 08:40:18 am
is it necessary to own Skyrim for the alpha testing?

From legal point of view - yes.
From technical point of view - unknown.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on December 15, 2014, 08:42:02 am
so which version of skyrim will i need?

English 1.9.32.0.8 version.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on December 15, 2014, 08:43:12 am
Typo, otherwise the game would crash right after launch.

It works with "esp" on my computer, but "esm" may work too.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on December 15, 2014, 11:17:36 am
Typo, otherwise the game would crash right after launch.

It works with "esp" on my computer, but "esm" may work too.

looks like i completely missed the second part of instructions on step 4.
Quote
activate it via Skyrim Launcher (Data Files option)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Zahlen on December 20, 2014, 03:16:47 pm
Skyrim Legendary Edition (which contains all the DLC) is on sale now at greenmangaming.com (http://www.greenmangaming.com/s/sg/en/pc/games/rpgs/elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-legendary-edition/) and getgamesgo.com (http://www.getgamesgo.com/product/skyrim-legendary-edition). ~USD13 at both sites, but is slightly cheaper at getgamesgo.com.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Nxter on December 20, 2014, 03:34:31 pm
Skyrim Legendary Edition (which contains all the DLC) is on sale now at greenmangaming.com (http://www.greenmangaming.com/s/sg/en/pc/games/rpgs/elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-legendary-edition/) and getgamesgo.com (http://www.getgamesgo.com/product/skyrim-legendary-edition). ~USD13 at both sites, but is slightly cheaper at getgamesgo.com.

Interesting!

Will it run on a laptop with:

Windows 7 64bits
Nvidia GT 630M    2GB
Intel I7-3610QM @ 2.3GHz
8Gb RAM???


If so i am getting it just to test Aftermath..
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on December 20, 2014, 03:37:29 pm
Skyrim Legendary Edition (which contains all the DLC) is on sale now at greenmangaming.com (http://www.greenmangaming.com/s/sg/en/pc/games/rpgs/elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-legendary-edition/) and getgamesgo.com (http://www.getgamesgo.com/product/skyrim-legendary-edition). ~USD13 at both sites, but is slightly cheaper at getgamesgo.com.

Interesting!

Will it run on a laptop with:

Windows 7 64bits
Nvidia GT 630M    2GB
Intel I7-3610QM @ 2.3GHz
8Gb RAM???


If so i am getting it just to test Aftermath..

No doubt: http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/cyri/requirements/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/11231/?p=r
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Nxter on December 20, 2014, 04:38:21 pm
Skyrim Legendary Edition (which contains all the DLC) is on sale now at greenmangaming.com (http://www.greenmangaming.com/s/sg/en/pc/games/rpgs/elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-legendary-edition/) and getgamesgo.com (http://www.getgamesgo.com/product/skyrim-legendary-edition). ~USD13 at both sites, but is slightly cheaper at getgamesgo.com.

Tried to get it  in both sites but have problems with the payment...
I do not have credit cards just maestro and it doesnt accpet my number, another example of companies losing a custormer because they dont accept NXT.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on December 21, 2014, 11:51:47 am

He guys, jump over to:


http://aftermath.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/3-installation-launch-and-deinstallation-of-aftermath/ (http://aftermath.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/3-installation-launch-and-deinstallation-of-aftermath/)




It would b nice to aggregate all experience at one place!
See you in Skyrim.




cheers
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: bubbletea777 on December 21, 2014, 02:38:28 pm
Hi triangle, can we have more regular (general) updates on the development progress please?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on December 21, 2014, 04:19:33 pm
Hi triangle, can we have more regular (general) updates on the development progress please?


We'll come with a Christmas update in the coming days :)

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: S3MKi on December 24, 2014, 08:06:49 pm
when will be the next addition to stuffing assets list already 10% sold and will be installed as a selling rate? Now just some hyped ... and I do not quite understand how to holders assets list in the future will have some profit excluding trade on AE, if the project is completed successfully?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Fatih87SK on December 24, 2014, 08:22:22 pm
Hi triangle, can we have more regular (general) updates on the development progress please?


We'll come with a Christmas update in the coming days :)
Waiting patiently
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Arpeggio on December 24, 2014, 08:36:57 pm
I've been wanting an official answer to this question. If the dream scenario happens and Jinn is a very successful company and gets bought out for Billions how will the asset holders get their share? Or Jinn does not sell out but is making millions in profit how will profits be distributed? It is extremely unlikely Nxt will be a liquid enough currency to distribute the payout equivalent to Millions or Billions in USD.

If my share of Jinn tokens are worth in the millions of dollars I would have no problem providing my real life personal info and proofs to get my check. Is that what would happen?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on December 24, 2014, 10:14:30 pm
Yes, the answer to this question is very important - if JINN is sold for x number of dollars, a fund should be created from which the asset holders can claim their x% of DOLLARS (or whatever was used to close the deal) from.

It would be disappointing if I held X% of JINN and it sold for 20 billion dollars which I never got a % of in any meaningful way. But, I hope the team will do the right thing - we support the project and hope in turn that everything works out for all parties involved!


I've been wanting an official answer to this question. If the dream scenario happens and Jinn is a very successful company and gets bought out for Billions how will the asset holders get their share? Or Jinn does not sell out but is making millions in profit how will profits be distributed? It is extremely unlikely Nxt will be a liquid enough currency to distribute the payout equivalent to Millions or Billions in USD.

If my share of Jinn tokens are worth in the millions of dollars I would have no problem providing my real life personal info and proofs to get my check. Is that what would happen?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on December 25, 2014, 10:01:20 am
Merry Christmas to all. Hope you all had a great time.
Here is the update:

Since the last update a few weeks ago, the biggest changes are:

Aftermath alpha has been released (www.aftermath.ipbhost.com), currently this is just to test to see if there are any crucial errors. Right now we're focusing more on the hardware of Jinn, so Aftermath will be postponed a week or so as a consequence, it's more important to develop Jinn naturally.

The grammar of the Abra compiler is done and so the work on the compiler is now entering late-stage development.

CfB inspired by some work by one of our consultants worked out some amazing, potentially breakthrough-status worthy logic gate designs. To protect the intellectual property before we go for patents, I cannot really reveal much about it other than that the benefits of this approach could be very, very interesting for certain product manufacturers. It's obvously still early and obstacles and big issues could arise, but it's looking promising. Thankfully we got academics to consult with, so that we can have independent review.

We are also currently deciding on our future product line (more updates on this will come as soon as we have decided). We will most likely produce 2 separate kinds of Jinn processors, each optimized for very different tasks. Again, the details are a bit scarce until we have a 100% clear design, but let's just say that the main reason for this is that it would be a wasted oppourtunity not to enter both markets that these processors will cover.

Some very important decisions regarding production, what sort of tech to use for distributed computing etc. will be reached in the coming weeks/month. So we'll be consulting with more experts on Internet of Things (IoT) etc. to get the most valuable input in regards to what they feel is the most useful. The IoT market is just at the cusp of really taking off, so there are so many standards and protocols that haven't been figured out yet, so the key to surviving and thriving in this market is to stay extremely adaptable and listening to the engineers, product designers and consumers.

Additionally we are already preparing for the long term future (2016 and onwards) with preliminary research and establishment of connection to experts on carbon nanotubes and optics. These emerging technologies will in all likelihood be the future for processor development and thus of very high interest to us. The vision of Jinn Labs is to always be on the very cutting edge of computing technology both in hardware and software, so it's very important for us to stay focused on these things, so that we are always ready to renew and keep making leaps in progress.

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on December 25, 2014, 10:09:19 am
Yes, the answer to this question is very important - if JINN is sold for x number of dollars, a fund should be created from which the asset holders can claim their x% of DOLLARS (or whatever was used to close the deal) from.

It would be disappointing if I held X% of JINN and it sold for 20 billion dollars which I never got a % of in any meaningful way. But, I hope the team will do the right thing - we support the project and hope in turn that everything works out for all parties involved!


I've been wanting an official answer to this question. If the dream scenario happens and Jinn is a very successful company and gets bought out for Billions how will the asset holders get their share? Or Jinn does not sell out but is making millions in profit how will profits be distributed? It is extremely unlikely Nxt will be a liquid enough currency to distribute the payout equivalent to Millions or Billions in USD.

If my share of Jinn tokens are worth in the millions of dollars I would have no problem providing my real life personal info and proofs to get my check. Is that what would happen?


Understandably, this question is the one we get most often. So let me again reassure anyone who is concerned: yes if we are either bought out for X sum or making profits of Y, then the Jinn-token holders will get the equivalent percentage released to them. Exactly how we will do this is not worked out yet, simply because the liquidity of Nxt does not allow for such a scenario at this point.

Most likely the scenario will evolve in the lines of what rtrtcrypto is asking. I.E. we'll need to get the real life personal info and then sign up the contracts and transfer over profit-shares. Of course Nxt could also blow up by then and make it possible to pay out via Nxt, but be sure that no matter what we'll find a solution that works for Jinn token holders.

We are very grateful and happy to those who believe in us and supported us via the auction!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on December 25, 2014, 01:03:23 pm
Nice update! Thanks!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on December 25, 2014, 02:13:04 pm
Thank you for this - I'm happy to hear this stated explicitly. Looking forward to years of computational progress created and undertaken by JINN!


Yes, the answer to this question is very important - if JINN is sold for x number of dollars, a fund should be created from which the asset holders can claim their x% of DOLLARS (or whatever was used to close the deal) from.

It would be disappointing if I held X% of JINN and it sold for 20 billion dollars which I never got a % of in any meaningful way. But, I hope the team will do the right thing - we support the project and hope in turn that everything works out for all parties involved!


I've been wanting an official answer to this question. If the dream scenario happens and Jinn is a very successful company and gets bought out for Billions how will the asset holders get their share? Or Jinn does not sell out but is making millions in profit how will profits be distributed? It is extremely unlikely Nxt will be a liquid enough currency to distribute the payout equivalent to Millions or Billions in USD.

If my share of Jinn tokens are worth in the millions of dollars I would have no problem providing my real life personal info and proofs to get my check. Is that what would happen?


Understandably, this question is the one we get most often. So let me again reassure anyone who is concerned: yes if we are either bought out for X sum or making profits of Y, then the Jinn-token holders will get the equivalent percentage released to them. Exactly how we will do this is not worked out yet, simply because the liquidity of Nxt does not allow for such a scenario at this point.

Most likely the scenario will evolve in the lines of what rtrtcrypto is asking. I.E. we'll need to get the real life personal info and then sign up the contracts and transfer over profit-shares. Of course Nxt could also blow up by then and make it possible to pay out via Nxt, but be sure that no matter what we'll find a solution that works for Jinn token holders.

We are very grateful and happy to those who believe in us and supported us via the auction!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: bubbletea777 on December 25, 2014, 02:50:40 pm
How big is the official team now?
i understand that making processors is a world different compare to producing software, experts with real experiences in the field are needed before Jinn labs can start thinking about factory and manufacturing. I mean making chips requires something more tangible right? ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on December 25, 2014, 02:53:40 pm
How big is the official team now?

Define "official", please.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: bubbletea777 on December 25, 2014, 03:03:13 pm
i meant "full time" employees/ active contributors/ more committed to the project..
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on December 25, 2014, 09:08:56 pm
Understandably, this question is the one we get most often. So let me again reassure anyone who is concerned: yes if we are either bought out for X sum or making profits of Y, then the Jinn-token holders will get the equivalent percentage released to them. Exactly how we will do this is not worked out yet, simply because the liquidity of Nxt does not allow for such a scenario at this point.

Most likely the scenario will evolve in the lines of what rtrtcrypto is asking. I.E. we'll need to get the real life personal info and then sign up the contracts and transfer over profit-shares. Of course Nxt could also blow up by then and make it possible to pay out via Nxt, but be sure that no matter what we'll find a solution that works for Jinn token holders.

We are very grateful and happy to those who believe in us and supported us via the auction!

Great update, thanks Triangle.  I would say that if Nxt doesn't have the liquidity, then perhaps issue an MS coin for paying dividends, one that could be convertible to BTC, or just pay directly in BTC.  I think the crypto landscape is going to look a lot different by the time you are ready to sell or pay dividends and Nxt will be much more valuable. 
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Berry on December 25, 2014, 09:44:27 pm

Nice update. Thank you.

I have such a good feeling with this project.
That´s a complete different world to the standard crypto stuff.

Good luck guys.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Breasal on December 26, 2014, 09:27:31 am
Great update, thanks Triangle.

Jinn Labs is in a fantastic position as IoT takes off! I am a very proud holder of JINN on the NXT AE. I am especially stoked as I was one very lucky bidders at 85 NXT for the dutch auction launch (a number long gone and really jaw dropping as development continues)  :)

Your Christmas day ANN was the best present I received this yeat. Jinn is going to bring much fortune to holders if your guys take the right steps. Along with that, NXT is going to gain tremendous recognition to the outside world regarding AE's potential for physical product companies' using the NXT AE for IPO in place of traditional markets.

Good luck in the patent process and here's to a very successful 2015.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Jimmy2011 on December 26, 2014, 10:30:58 am
@Triangle  It's reported that IBM is working on graphene chip and got some great results. So what do you mean as talking about interest on nanotube/graphene? What it is meant to Jinn? Any great new design for that, or you will just consider and adopt the new material and new process? Thanks for the update!

来自 MI 2SC 上的 Tapatalk now Free (http://'http://tapatalk.com/m?id=10')

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: durerus on December 26, 2014, 10:05:36 pm
Wow! The price is booming after the ANN update. I am happy to have caught some shares at IPO and short after. Hopefully you will reach all your goals :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: _mr_e on December 26, 2014, 10:36:20 pm
Wow! The price is booming after the ANN. I am happy to have caught some shares at IPO and short after. Hopefully you will reach all your goals :)
Which ANN?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: durerus on December 26, 2014, 10:40:41 pm
Wow! The price is booming after the ANN. I am happy to have caught some shares at IPO and short after. Hopefully you will reach all your goals :)
Which ANN?

Oh sorry, I meant the update. Bad english  :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on December 27, 2014, 06:08:25 am
@Triangle  It's reported that IBM is working on graphene chip and got some great results. So what do you mean as talking about interest on nanotube/graphene? What it is meant to Jinn? Any great new design for that, or you will just consider and adopt the new material and new process? Thanks for the update!


As of right now we are exploring all avenues, but the mass-production and affordable cost for graphene nanotubes is currently prohibitive. But we're paying close attention to it, as we'll obviously have to renew and adapt constantly
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: qqNxt on December 27, 2014, 08:03:10 am
Quote
https://nxtforum.org/trading-exchanges/sgtbulk-jinn-assets-pm-offers-only/
If anyone is interested!

I'm very glad I had bought into the ipo. But I also believe to hold less for better distribution and in return may end up with a more valuable holdings so I'm profiting some out, unlike some early nxters. ::)

Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 02, 2015, 08:37:49 pm
A small tech update

We are beginning the next stage - prototyping in hardware. This will require design of basic ternary elements with transistors. Then we are planning to manufacture them in Belarus. And then I'll compose the circuit at home. In the end we should get a device that will do the work of a single Jinn core.

This is only one of the routes of Jinn Labs. Other routes are Jiniri Unlimited, Abracadabra compiler, Aftermath (proof-of-concept game) and some theoretical/academical stuff.

Btw, I used Nxt AM feature to store the hash of a "know-how" (I like know-hows :) ) - https://nxtblocks.info/#section/txid/5612329234890779456. It's related to a ternary element with very low energy dissipation. Pity that I can't use it in the prototype, first we need to patent it but this will take a lot of time and money.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: artik123 on January 02, 2015, 08:52:21 pm
...first we need to patent it but this will take a lot of time and money.

Have you heard about PPA(Provisional Patent Application)?

It has a very low fees ($65-$260).
You only describe the technical aspect, while the claims aspect comes within 12 months period after that.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 02, 2015, 08:55:22 pm
Have you heard about PPA(Provisional Patent Application)?

It has a very low fees ($65-$260).
You only describe the technical aspect, while the claims aspect comes within 12 months period after that.

Personally, I haven't. Thank you for the info.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rlh on January 02, 2015, 09:21:48 pm
If/when you create proto-hardware and are finished using it for testing, I'll pay good money for the unused PCBs, or no longer needed prototype modules.

I collect hardware and whether Jinn succeeds, or fails, I'd gladly display some of this equipment on my shelves because it's revolutionary, regardless of it's level of acceptance.

I can't pay the rate that it costs to make this stuff but, after working in electircal engineering for a time, I've come to observe that when you are ready to release, you have piles of prototype hardware that you often trash.

Please don't trash it, but share it with us collector nuts. ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on January 02, 2015, 09:33:32 pm
Please don't trash it, but share it with us collector nuts. ;)

I'd like to have one too. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 02, 2015, 09:41:24 pm
If/when you create proto-hardware and are finished using it for testing, I'll pay good money for the unused PCBs, or no longer needed prototype modules.

I collect hardware and whether Jinn succeeds, or fails, I'd gladly display some of this equipment on my shelves because it's revolutionary, regardless of it's level of acceptance.

I can't pay the rate that it costs to make this stuff but, after working in electircal engineering for a time, I've come to observe that when you are ready to release, you have piles of prototype hardware that you often trash.

Please don't trash it, but share it with us collector nuts. ;)

I'll donate some Nxt to help rlh pay for a prototype. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rlh on January 02, 2015, 09:55:39 pm
Hey, that gives me an idea.  You guys could auction off the first batches of prototypes to help offset costs.  After testing, and when these boards are no longer needed, you can ship them to the purchasers.

Win/win!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: bubbletea777 on January 03, 2015, 05:14:09 am
@cfb, how much time do you think it will take to complete this stage?
And an update development roadmap & timeline would help :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 03, 2015, 08:19:40 am
@cfb, how much time do you think it will take to complete this stage?
And an update development roadmap & timeline would help :D

I can't say, it depends on other people too, not only me.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: bubbletea777 on January 03, 2015, 08:24:08 am
Haha ok that brings it back to my unanswered question for Triangle (posted awhile ago) about the current team composition.
I dont expect too much info that can give Jinn away though a reasonable answer is clearly expected (by everyone) :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 03, 2015, 01:30:36 pm
https://nxtforum.org/jinn/city-in-the-sky/
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 06, 2015, 05:58:41 pm
I have completed development of a hash function - https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond/SaM/blob/master/src/cfb/sam/SaM.java

If it passes peer review than it will be put into the base of cryptography resistant to quantum computers. Jinn will support such cryptography at hardware level.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 06, 2015, 06:10:10 pm
I have completed development of a hash function - https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond/SaM/blob/master/src/cfb/sam/SaM.java

If it passes peer review than it will be put into the base of cryptography resistant to quantum computers. Jinn will support such cryptography at hardware level.

Interesting, so Jinn will be quantum resistant?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 06, 2015, 06:40:55 pm
Interesting, so Jinn will be quantum resistant?

Yes, it doesn't make sense to use tech that will obsolete in 10 years. I'm talking about conventional cryptography.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 06, 2015, 06:45:54 pm
Interesting, so Jinn will be quantum resistant?

Yes, it doesn't make sense to use tech that will obsolete in 10 years. I'm talking about conventional cryptography.

I agree!  Can we retrofit into Nxt?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 06, 2015, 06:55:20 pm
I agree!  Can we retrofit into Nxt?

https://nxtforum.org/technical-development-applications/ann-bounty-for-development-of-account-control-features/msg85841/#msg85841

Point 5.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on January 06, 2015, 07:15:00 pm
Jinn labs website is down.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 06, 2015, 09:29:14 pm
I agree!  Can we retrofit into Nxt?

https://nxtforum.org/technical-development-applications/ann-bounty-for-development-of-account-control-features/msg85841/#msg85841

Point 5.

Neat!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 07, 2015, 01:47:17 pm
Today all the pieces of a puzzle have stuck together.

Few years ago I was working on Qubic project but faced difficulties related to Sybil attack counteraction. There were some other obstacles like vulnerability of algorithms I planned to use to quantum computers and necessity to rely on Internet Service Providers.

A hashing algorithm (https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond/SaM/blob/master/src/cfb/sam/SaM.java) I developed yesterday triggered few neurons in my brain and I suddenly realized that Jinn and Qubic fit each other very well.

For example, Qubic uses cryptographic puzzles to counter Sybil attacks and Jinn uses cryptographic puzzles for key exchange. For another example, Jinn-powered devices need some kind of a token to control access to resources and qubics could be used for that. There are other examples how Jinn and Qubic could be combined for mutual benefit.

For those who don't know what Qubic is, it's something like Bitcoin but without a blockchain. Qubic also offers much greater freedom in all its aspects, for example, total coin supply can be limited if the quorum of users decides so, not the core developers or the early adopters. Smart contracts based on Qubic can be written in any language, they can also take into account imperfect nature of human beings. There can be a lot said about Qubic, but this thread is about Jinn and I don't want to derail it.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Daedelus on January 07, 2015, 01:58:13 pm
Relaunch Qubic forum!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 07, 2015, 02:07:13 pm
Relaunch Qubic forum!

I'm thinking of using Qubic under Jinn brand.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on January 07, 2015, 02:11:47 pm
A hashing algorithm (https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond/SaM/blob/master/src/cfb/sam/SaM.java) I developed yesterday triggered few neurons in my brain and I suddenly realized that Jinn and Qubic fit each other very well.

Is your new idea a breakthrough of quorum consensus mechanism to make quorum based crypto feasible?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on January 07, 2015, 02:14:06 pm
I'm thinking of using Qubic under Jinn brand.

This will make Jinn asset holders very happy!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on January 07, 2015, 02:23:36 pm
Sell nxt for qubic!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 07, 2015, 02:28:33 pm
A hashing algorithm (https://github.com/Come-from-Beyond/SaM/blob/master/src/cfb/sam/SaM.java) I developed yesterday triggered few neurons in my brain and I suddenly realized that Jinn and Qubic fit each other very well.

Is your new idea a breakthrough of quorum consensus mechanism to make quorum based crypto feasible?

No, it's just an algo optimized for a ternary processor. Quorum based crypto is feasible on binary platform too.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: smartwart on January 07, 2015, 11:46:43 pm
I'm thinking of using Qubic under Jinn brand.


the cube with Jinn logo (the colored face) on each side, would be a nice logo...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: costa2439 on January 08, 2015, 11:09:56 am
What use will the 900,000 jinn, left?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: bubbletea777 on January 08, 2015, 11:41:22 am
for other rounds of fund raising in the future!
What use will the 900,000 jinn, left?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: costa2439 on January 08, 2015, 11:42:35 am
for other rounds of fund raising in the future!
What use will the 900,000 jinn, left?

OK, thanks
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: bubbletea777 on January 08, 2015, 11:47:38 am
disclaimer: the above statement is not officially from Jinn Lab people hehe
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Arpeggio on January 08, 2015, 01:52:40 pm
for other rounds of fund raising in the future!
What use will the 900,000 jinn, left?

Seems there is still some misunderstanding as to what Jinn is. The Jinn asset represents equity shares of the company itself Jinn Labs. We don't have a say how Jinn is run but get our share of the profits. That is why Triangle could care less about the price of Jinn. The 900,000 is his share of the company. CFB is supposed to receive 100,000 after some milestones and so was Weslyh but he is no longer a part of it so I don't know now.

So think of it like CFB owning 100,000 Jinn assets means he owns 10% of Jinn. If you buy 1000 Jinn you own .1%. If I owned .1% of Google or Intel since its inception I'd be a super millionaire. Jinn holders are betting the same can be said of Jinn a few years from now.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: costa2439 on January 08, 2015, 02:11:18 pm
in coinmarketcap the total is 100K, this does not correspond to the reality of the active
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rubenbc on January 08, 2015, 02:16:49 pm
900.000 are frozen. if you see freemarket in coinmarketcap you can see 750.000 asset but has 1.000.000. Its the same. Triangle has 90% jinn and jl777 has 25% of freemarket. In conclusion, nobody can't buy this
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Arpeggio on January 08, 2015, 02:30:40 pm
in coinmarketcap the total is 100K, this does not correspond to the reality of the active

The 100K CMC lists is accurate because only 100K were sold to the public. The 900K is really not suppose to be available. In other words nobody can buy more than 100K on the Asset Exchange. In reality its less because guys like me don't look at the price and I will never sell any until Jinn is a multi Billion dollar company or busts.

Jinn asset is not a coin. It is closer to a stock.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: costa2439 on January 08, 2015, 03:16:44 pm
in coinmarketcap the total is 100K, this does not correspond to the reality of the active

The 100K CMC lists is accurate because only 100K were sold to the public. The 900K is really not suppose to be available. In other words nobody can buy more than 100K on the Asset Exchange. In reality its less because guys like me don't look at the price and I will never sell any until Jinn is a multi Billion dollar company or busts.

Jinn asset is not a coin. It is closer to a stock.
I understand, but in the future. distribute dividends or only the proportional part of a future sale? And to whom?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Arpeggio on January 08, 2015, 04:38:53 pm
in coinmarketcap the total is 100K, this does not correspond to the reality of the active

The 100K CMC lists is accurate because only 100K were sold to the public. The 900K is really not suppose to be available. In other words nobody can buy more than 100K on the Asset Exchange. In reality its less because guys like me don't look at the price and I will never sell any until Jinn is a multi Billion dollar company or busts.

Jinn asset is not a coin. It is closer to a stock.
I understand, but in the future. distribute dividends or only the proportional part of a future sale? And to whom?

Both. For all asset owners. This is the trust part of this arrangement. Like myself I believe most would not have invested if not for cfb being a part of this.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rlh on January 08, 2015, 05:22:41 pm
in coinmarketcap the total is 100K, this does not correspond to the reality of the active

The 100K CMC lists is accurate because only 100K were sold to the public. The 900K is really not suppose to be available. In other words nobody can buy more than 100K on the Asset Exchange. In reality its less because guys like me don't look at the price and I will never sell any until Jinn is a multi Billion dollar company or busts.

Jinn asset is not a coin. It is closer to a stock.
I understand, but in the future. distribute dividends or only the proportional part of a future sale? And to whom?

Both. For all asset owners. This is the trust part of this arrangement. Like myself I believe most would not have invested if not for cfb being a part of this.

Yep!  CfB is honestly the smartest Computer Engineer I've met (online or otherwise) and if he weren't the lead dev, I would have written this project off immediately.   I fight the urge to buy up an "unsound" amount of shares every... single.. day.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on January 08, 2015, 06:13:23 pm
You guys are reading my mind... I feel 100% the same.


in coinmarketcap the total is 100K, this does not correspond to the reality of the active

The 100K CMC lists is accurate because only 100K were sold to the public. The 900K is really not suppose to be available. In other words nobody can buy more than 100K on the Asset Exchange. In reality its less because guys like me don't look at the price and I will never sell any until Jinn is a multi Billion dollar company or busts.

Jinn asset is not a coin. It is closer to a stock.
I understand, but in the future. distribute dividends or only the proportional part of a future sale? And to whom?

Both. For all asset owners. This is the trust part of this arrangement. Like myself I believe most would not have invested if not for cfb being a part of this.

Yep!  CfB is honestly the smartest Computer Engineer I've met (online or otherwise) and if he weren't the lead dev, I would have written this project off immediately.   I fight the urge to buy up an "unsound" amount of shares every... single.. day.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 08, 2015, 06:20:48 pm
Yep!  CfB is honestly the smartest Computer Engineer I've met (online or otherwise) and if he weren't the lead dev, I would have written this project off immediately.   I fight the urge to buy up an "unsound" amount of shares every... single.. day.

My thoughts exactly, except I've already bought up and unsound amount, now I just need to think about buying more  :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 08, 2015, 06:35:16 pm
It's interesting, I can't recall a project that would show that I'm that smart as you describe, guys. I did develop several project for bitcoiners but all they were proprietary stuff like cryptoexchange backend and only few people know the details. You are trying to pump the price, haha.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 08, 2015, 06:45:25 pm
It's interesting, I can't recall a project that would show that I'm that smart as you describe, guys. I did develop several project for bitcoiners but all they were proprietary stuff like cryptoexchange backend and only few people know the details. You are trying to pump the price, haha.

Well, your work on Nxt core for one, your technical diversity (expert understanding of software and hardware systems), your technical interactions on BTT, and your choice of sweaters.  Add in your mysterious persona and you get one talented engineer!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TwinWinNerD on January 08, 2015, 06:49:17 pm
CFB handled the attack on NXT in DEZ 2013 like a champ. I will never forget!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 08, 2015, 06:51:10 pm
CFB orchestrated the attack on NXT in DEZ 2013 like a champ. I will never forget!

FIFY  :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: TwinWinNerD on January 08, 2015, 06:52:42 pm
Haha.

I just know that I was ready to panic sell all my NXT after the block explorer showed that trillions of NXT were created due to a bug. And he just said: "BRB fixing it".
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: costa2439 on January 08, 2015, 06:52:59 pm
if cfb is the depositor confidence, why is triangle the holder of 90%? not mad just trying to understand
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 08, 2015, 06:55:03 pm
Haha.

I just know that I was ready to panic sell all my NXT after the block explorer showed that trillions of NXT were created due to a bug. And he just said: "BRB fixing it".

Haha, yeah, my account showed negative 5Mil Nxt because I had forged a huge negative Nxt block.  I had a pants poop moment.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 08, 2015, 06:58:45 pm
if cfb is the depositor confidence, why is triangle the holder of 90%? not mad just trying to understand

Triangle represents the company as a whole, all participants/products, not one person.  It might be confusing to say that Jinn holds 90% since it's just one product. 
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: costa2439 on January 08, 2015, 07:02:55 pm
if cfb is the depositor confidence, why is triangle the holder of 90%? not mad just trying to understand

Triangle represents the company as a whole, all participants/products, not one person.  It might be confusing to say that Jinn holds 90% since it's just one product.
ahhh, ok, I think I understand, the other 90% is part of the company, which gets 10% cfb to reach some goals, rest is at the disposal of asset holders to vote their use, right?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rtrtcrypto on January 08, 2015, 07:26:42 pm
I'm actually from the FUTURE, so I base your reputation on what it will be in 2022. I will tell you more on my super-yatch in 2023.

It's interesting, I can't recall a project that would show that I'm that smart as you describe, guys. I did develop several project for bitcoiners but all they were proprietary stuff like cryptoexchange backend and only few people know the details. You are trying to pump the price, haha.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: jones on January 08, 2015, 07:39:47 pm
EVOL
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on January 08, 2015, 07:51:01 pm
ahhh, ok, I think I understand, the other 90% is part of the company, which gets 10% cfb to reach some goals, rest is at the disposal of asset holders to vote their use, right?

You are probably wrong. If I am correct the rest of 90% is owned by the founders who are CfB and David and maybe someone else. But they will only receive some of their shares when certain milestones have been achieved from time to time. They also can sell their shares for more fundraisings in the future. It will be up to the founders.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: costa2439 on January 08, 2015, 08:04:48 pm
ahhh, ok, I think I understand, the other 90% is part of the company, which gets 10% cfb to reach some goals, rest is at the disposal of asset holders to vote their use, right?

You are probably wrong. If I am correct the rest of 90% is owned by the founders who are CfB and David and maybe someone else. But they will only receive some of their shares when certain milestones have been achieved from time to time. They also can sell their shares for more fundraisings in the future. It will be up to the founders.
but not for personal use, in this case, if tomorrow pass out dividends, does the 90% would be out?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: gs02xzz on January 08, 2015, 08:10:18 pm
but not for personal use, in this case, if tomorrow pass out dividends, does the 90% would be out?

Dividend is not stock and won't affect the distribution of the stocks. You can look Jinn as a regular corporate and the 10% sold on the AE is the first round of seeding fundraising.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: costa2439 on January 08, 2015, 08:13:42 pm
but not for personal use, in this case, if tomorrow pass out dividends, does the 90% would be out?

Dividend is not stock and won't affect the distribution of the stocks. You can look Jinn as a regular corporate and the 10% sold on the AE is the first round of seeding fundraising.
thank you very much, these references are good for calculating the appropriate initial investment
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 08, 2015, 08:54:16 pm
ahhh, ok, I think I understand, the other 90% is part of the company, which gets 10% cfb to reach some goals, rest is at the disposal of asset holders to vote their use, right?

You are probably wrong. If I am correct the rest of 90% is owned by the founders who are CfB and David and maybe someone else. But they will only receive some of their shares when certain milestones have been achieved from time to time. They also can sell their shares for more fundraisings in the future. It will be up to the founders.

Yeah, the 90% is owned by Jinn Labs.  They can do whatever they want with it.  I'm assuming in order to start mass production on a processor, they will need to close significant VC funding or raise more funds by selling more shares.  They will need to offer their team of contributors shares in Jinn Labs as well.  I wouldn't assume you get any voting rights by buying shares in Jinn Labs, only potential dividends and obviously a big payout if they are acquired, etc...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: costa2439 on January 08, 2015, 09:00:50 pm
ahhh, ok, I think I understand, the other 90% is part of the company, which gets 10% cfb to reach some goals, rest is at the disposal of asset holders to vote their use, right?

You are probably wrong. If I am correct the rest of 90% is owned by the founders who are CfB and David and maybe someone else. But they will only receive some of their shares when certain milestones have been achieved from time to time. They also can sell their shares for more fundraisings in the future. It will be up to the founders.

Yeah, the 90% is owned by Jinn Labs.  They can do whatever they want with it.  I'm assuming in order to start mass production on a processor, they will need to close significant VC funding or raise more funds by selling more shares.  They will need to offer their team of contributors shares in Jinn Labs as well.  I wouldn't assume you get any voting rights by buying shares in Jinn Labs, only potential dividends and obviously a big payout if they are acquired, etc...
thanks for answering
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Arpeggio on January 08, 2015, 09:41:59 pm
I'm pretty sure Triangle says we ain't got no voting rights or a say in how's the company be run. We just sits there and collects the moniez.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: apenzl on January 08, 2015, 11:24:03 pm
CFB orchestrated the attack on NXT in DEZ 2013 like a champ. I will never forget!

FIFY  :)
;D more nodes
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 08, 2015, 11:43:38 pm
Jinnlabs should consider one of these: http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/08/and-the-winner-of-hardware-battlefield-2015-is-voltera/
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 09, 2015, 08:01:52 am
Jinnlabs should consider one of these: http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/08/and-the-winner-of-hardware-battlefield-2015-is-voltera/

Interesting. It looks more convenient than https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urv6jArKp6M.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: marek3ball on January 09, 2015, 11:44:59 am
Think economically http://youtu.be/iACOQdR7euc (http://youtu.be/iACOQdR7euc)  ;D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: alxx77 on January 09, 2015, 11:52:42 am
 :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rlh on January 09, 2015, 12:04:02 pm
CfB, it's not so much what you've done that builds so much confidence, it's also what you say.

I've been a professional software engineer for over 10 years and I played around with coding well before university.  I don't claim to be the smartest and the best in my field, but I do love to learn and dig deeper into this stuff.

Your dismissive nature about some of the stuff that you are capable of articulating is a bit surprising.  Your humble, your exceptionally intelligent and your creative-- that is a 1-in-a-million combination.

To me, that's worth a generous investment.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 09, 2015, 02:02:49 pm
CfB, it's not so much what you've done that builds so much confidence, it's also what you say.

I've been a professional software engineer for over 10 years and I played around with coding well before university.  I don't claim to be the smartest and the best in my field, but I do love to learn and dig deeper into this stuff.

Your dismissive nature about some of the stuff that you are capable of articulating is a bit surprising.  Your humble, your exceptionally intelligent and your creative-- that is a 1-in-a-million combination.

To me, that's worth a generous investment.

That's some Arnold Schwarzenegger pump action right there!  :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on January 10, 2015, 05:13:59 am
ahhh, ok, I think I understand, the other 90% is part of the company, which gets 10% cfb to reach some goals, rest is at the disposal of asset holders to vote their use, right?

You are probably wrong. If I am correct the rest of 90% is owned by the founders who are CfB and David and maybe someone else. But they will only receive some of their shares when certain milestones have been achieved from time to time. They also can sell their shares for more fundraisings in the future. It will be up to the founders.

Yeah, the 90% is owned by Jinn Labs.  They can do whatever they want with it.  I'm assuming in order to start mass production on a processor, they will need to close significant VC funding or raise more funds by selling more shares.  They will need to offer their team of contributors shares in Jinn Labs as well.  I wouldn't assume you get any voting rights by buying shares in Jinn Labs, only potential dividends and obviously a big payout if they are acquired, etc...

This summarizes the situation quite nicely. In all likelihood we will have to do a significant series A to go "big time", unless of course Bitcoin or NXT decides to land on the moon by then :) But yes, currently the plan is indeed to have a significant options pool and also a portion set aside for Series A, but we'll be very selective and picky about who we bring on board as investors, so that we don't end up in a situation where we have to answer to some corporate figure who just wants to find the nearest exit plan. We're in Jinn for the bigger picture, among which is the IoT revolution that will change the world dramatically over the coming years. We are really passionate about this, so we'll stay frugal for as long as we can so we don't have to sell big portions of Jinn.

There'll come a bigger update on Sunday of what the recent developments are and what will happen over the next 2 months, so stay tuned!
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: bubbletea777 on January 10, 2015, 05:56:28 am
Really waiting for updates Triangle! If possible please respond to unaddressed concerns in this thread (without exposing info that gives our advantages away, of course. These can be PM to me directly lol).
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on January 10, 2015, 07:07:45 am
Really waiting for updates Triangle! If possible please respond to unaddressed concerns in this thread (without exposing info that gives our advantages away, of course. These can be PM to me directly lol).

I have already responded to all PMs. I'm not sure if I am missing something, but I don't see any unadressed concerns at the present?

Expect a longer update on Sunday/Monday
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: bubbletea777 on January 11, 2015, 01:45:47 am
It's all good.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Daedelus on January 12, 2015, 10:05:54 pm
Does Nxt have a Jiniri Node on the mainnet? Hexagon 15.0...?


If so, does this mean that Nxt Nodes will be one of the first use cases of Jiniri?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 12, 2015, 10:24:35 pm
Worth a read for the Jinn guys: http://venturebeat.com/2015/01/11/why-amd-is-staying-out-of-the-internet-of-things-chip-market-interview/
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 12, 2015, 10:27:38 pm
Does Nxt have a Jiniri Node on the mainnet? Hexagon 15.0...?


If so, does this mean that Nxt Nodes will be one of the first use cases of Jiniri?

Main part is the original NRS code, I was just playing with TF.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 12, 2015, 10:28:09 pm
Worth a read for the Jinn guys: http://venturebeat.com/2015/01/11/why-amd-is-staying-out-of-the-internet-of-things-chip-market-interview/

Thank you, it seems to be interesting.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 12, 2015, 10:37:30 pm
Worth a read for the Jinn guys: http://venturebeat.com/2015/01/11/why-amd-is-staying-out-of-the-internet-of-things-chip-market-interview/

Thank you, it seems to be interesting.

IOT is the future, AMD seems to be taking a lazy approach to innovation.  Good for companies like JinnLabs in my opinion.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 12, 2015, 10:42:02 pm
Good for companies like JinnLabs in my opinion.

Heh, if it's too easy to compete with giants like Intel and AMD I'll lose the interest.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 13, 2015, 10:27:18 pm
What happened to our update?  :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on January 13, 2015, 11:41:03 pm
There's a slight delay, we had a setback (will inform of what later, it's nothing big) and there was a delay in an hiring due to timezone difficulties, so I wanted to push the update back until these 2 things are clarified since they are a part of the update.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 14, 2015, 04:33:17 pm
There's a slight delay, we had a setback (will inform of what later, it's nothing big) and there was a delay in an hiring due to timezone difficulties, so I wanted to push the update back until these 2 things are clarified since they are a part of the update.

No worries, I'm entertained watching BTC crash for the moment.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: bubbletea777 on January 16, 2015, 02:18:07 pm
Jinnlabs.com is down.
meanwhile, some random new project has a neat landing page prompting people to wait and stay updated.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: shin on January 17, 2015, 01:09:25 pm
In case Jinn Lab is doing some research on AI; here is an open letter from MIT signed by hundreds of scientists and IT professionals.
Open letter: http://futureoflife.org/misc/open_letter
Research priorities document: http://futureoflife.org/static/data/documents/research_priorities.pdf

TL;DR: "If your work involves AI systems, they must do what you want them to do."
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: lucky88888 on January 17, 2015, 01:27:29 pm
"If your work involves AI systems, they must do what you want them to do."

it won't be ai if it only does what it is told to do, right?
we humans are just the bootstraps for the machines  ;D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: youyou on January 17, 2015, 02:50:48 pm
anyway, automatied replicant machines will probably will be far more dangerous than AI
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on January 17, 2015, 03:56:42 pm
Jinnlabs.com is down.
meanwhile, some random new project has a neat landing page prompting people to wait and stay updated.

It'll be up again soon with a new page, had server issues. "random new project has a neat landing page" ? wut
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on January 17, 2015, 03:58:26 pm
In case Jinn Lab is doing some research on AI; here is an open letter from MIT signed by hundreds of scientists and IT professionals.
Open letter: http://futureoflife.org/misc/open_letter
Research priorities document: http://futureoflife.org/static/data/documents/research_priorities.pdf

TL;DR: "If your work involves AI systems, they must do what you want them to do."

I have actually had several interactions with Max Tegmark (initiator of futureoflife) over the past 6 years. I have been a futurologist since my teens and are in regular contact with several of the people involved in the philosophy and research of Super AI, so I am painfully aware of the potential dangers of AI. So best believe that if we ever start an AI project (which is in our minds) it will be in a controlled setting following the protocols
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 17, 2015, 10:43:00 pm
I've found an interesting article - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_generation_computer:
Quote
The term "fifth generation" was intended to convey the system as being a leap beyond existing machines. In the history of computing hardware, computers using vacuum tubes were called the first generation; transistors and diodes, the second; integrated circuits, the third; and those using microprocessors, the fourth.
When I started working on a processor with distributed computing I didn't know that it's a new, the 5th, generation...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Triangle on January 17, 2015, 11:02:54 pm
I've found an interesting article - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_generation_computer:
Quote
The term "fifth generation" was intended to convey the system as being a leap beyond existing machines. In the history of computing hardware, computers using vacuum tubes were called the first generation; transistors and diodes, the second; integrated circuits, the third; and those using microprocessors, the fourth.
When I started working on a processor with distributed computing I didn't know that it's a new, the 5th, generation...

Both the distributed computing and ternary elements should definitely qualify it as the first 5th generation processor. And then if everything goes to plan with our plans for optics in the future we might also be the first 6th gen :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 23, 2015, 05:01:41 pm
I noticed an interesting phenomenon. A network of Jinn processors has collective memory that can store information in a holographic manner. Dunno how to utilize this though...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: shin on January 23, 2015, 05:35:08 pm
Explain a holographic manner... :/
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 23, 2015, 05:53:55 pm
Explain a holographic manner... :/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_data_storage

Network of Jinns doesn't work the same way but has similar properties. Network may become fragmented but information will still be stored with some (but not all) knowledge lost. The bonus is in compression rate. Bitcoin blockchain would be shrinked from 26 Gb to several hundreds Mb.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 23, 2015, 06:01:55 pm
Explain a holographic manner... :/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_data_storage

Network of Jinns doesn't work the same way but has similar properties. Network may become fragmented but information will still be stored with some (but not all) knowledge lost. The bonus is in compression rate. Bitcoin blockchain would be shrinked from 26 Gb to several hundreds Mb.

Have Jinn contact Ethereum about potential use of Jinn Processor?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 23, 2015, 06:05:36 pm
Have Jinn contact Ethereum about potential use of Jinn Processor?

No, they target 12 secs between blocks while compression requires much more time. It depends on data propagation time and can't provide 100% lossless compression. It's like a piece of a hologram. You can cut 50% off and still keep the whole image but it will be more blurred.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Fatih87SK on January 23, 2015, 06:10:16 pm
So Jinn is the solution for blockchain pruning in NXT?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 23, 2015, 06:17:47 pm
So Jinn is the solution for blockchain pruning in NXT?

Jinn creates a snapshot of the state of a system and provides a way of keeping the snapshot unchanged even under attacks of rogue entities (including those who own Jinn processors too). Theoretically Jinn-powered network can do a snapshop of Nxt once a week, in this case we'll get something like a rolling blockchain that will be only one week old.

Frankly saying, it's not magic but Sybil attack protection embedded into Jinn networking suite.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: shin on January 23, 2015, 06:18:39 pm
Basically JPEG image compression for data :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 23, 2015, 06:19:53 pm
Basically JPEG image compression for data :D

No, the only common thing is loss of information over time. 1 second after a snapshot is taken 100% of the information is kept.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 23, 2015, 06:31:43 pm
Here is another example of advantage of collective memory usage:

Naive hash-based signature reduced from 8192 to 64 bytes. More than 99% compression.

Edit: It opens a lot of new ways of handling data. This has just come to my mind - nodes that process smart contracts may recover correct state even if some bugs present in software. Lightweight clients become trivial, because they don't need to validate blockchain. So on and so forth...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: msin on January 23, 2015, 06:41:35 pm
Here is another example of advantage of collective memory usage:

Naive hash-based signature reduced from 8192 to 64 bytes. More than 99% compression.

Edit: It opens a lot of new ways of handling data. This has just come to my mind - nodes that process smart contracts may recover correct state even if some bugs present in software. Lightweight clients become trivial, because they don't need to validate blockchain. So on and so forth...

okay, buying more Jinn now.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 23, 2015, 07:04:38 pm
okay, buying more Jinn now.

You should also sell IBM and Samsung shares.  :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Arpeggio on January 23, 2015, 07:24:46 pm
okay, buying more Jinn now.

You should also sell IBM and Samsung shares.  :D

I'm buying more Jinn with the money I make shorting IBM and Samsung.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: embicoin on January 23, 2015, 07:53:25 pm
I noticed an interesting phenomenon. A network of Jinn processors has collective memory that can store information in a holographic manner. Dunno how to utilize this though...

Could it have any similarity with what happens in the Nature, when two Qubits acquire the same state under superposition? It sounds rather similar for me... I can't explain it in technical jargon, but I feel the coincidences...

If the answer is positive, then the applications may approach to the quantum computing uses? :S

Maybe I am divagating too much...
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 23, 2015, 07:56:24 pm
Could it have any similarity with what happens in the Nature, when two Qubits acquire the same state under superposition? It sounds rather similar for me... I can't explain it in technical jargon, but I feel the coincidences...

If the answer is positive, then the applications may approach to the quantum computing uses? :S

Maybe I am divagating too much...

No, it's not similar to quantum superposition.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: embicoin on January 23, 2015, 07:59:36 pm
Could it have any similarity with what happens in the Nature, when two Qubits acquire the same state under superposition? It sounds rather similar for me... I can't explain it in technical jargon, but I feel the coincidences...

If the answer is positive, then the applications may approach to the quantum computing uses? :S

Maybe I am divagating too much...

No, it's not similar to quantum superposition.

Ok, my apologies for my ignorance... What uses may it have then?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 23, 2015, 08:08:25 pm
Ok, my apologies for my ignorance... What uses may it have then?

It can be used for double-spending prevention, for example.
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: embicoin on January 23, 2015, 08:15:15 pm
Ok, my apologies again (because maybe my next question may sound really naive):

Could it be possible that the ternary state from a jinn processor helps preventing the degrading of a jpg image, for example? I assume that a jpg image gets degraded because the typical binary processor cannot deal with some parts of the internal information, whilst a ternary processor could?

Please don't be so hard with me... I am just trying to understand  ??? ???
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 23, 2015, 08:19:54 pm
Could it be possible that the ternary state from a jinn processor helps preventing the degrading of a jpg image, for example?

Very little (depending on hardware).
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: colin012 on January 23, 2015, 08:42:53 pm
The nice thing about Jin code is that it will work for quantum computers as the "true, false, unknown" boolean value set is pretty much the same thing as the quantum bit set in which a single bit can represent 1 of 3 possible values rather than 1 of 2 like a normal bit.

In fact, tertiary computing methods will be in very high demand once quantum processors become wide spread. I would personally recommend working on a tertiary hard drive rather than a processor because once quantum processors become widespread, there will still be a need for such hardware to work with quantum bits. It would really be cool if you guys could make a quantum hard drive but it would still be profitable to simply make tertiary hard drive for use with quantum processors BEFORE the release of quantum hard drives as I am sure they are already in the making but likely won't be made for personal size computers for at least a couple years AFTER quantum processors are so there will be demand for something that stores data in quantum bits.

In keeping with your theme of triangles, you could actually make a tiangular semi-SSD chip which can store a lot of data in a small space using very little electricity. If make it the size of a typical hard drive, the amount of data it could store would be vast.

Here is basically how it would work: the electrical flow would start at a single three way switch. From there it would be passed to 1 of or 3 more three way switches. Each of these two other switches either sends the flow down a completed circuit or one of two other three way switches. The hard drive stores data by the electrical path that is built by the switches. A path traveling along the left side of the triangle is equivalent to a blank hard drive. One down the middle is equivalent to a hard drive with all "unknown" bits written to it. One down the right side of the triangle is all "true" values. The nice thing about this is that the entire hard drive can be read with a single electrical pulse so it would be supper fast reading speeds. The down side is that writing speeds would be slower the closer to the origin point of the drive a file is being saved. For this reason, it would be ideal to write files from the end to the beginning.

I suppose the writing process could be go faster if the drive wrote duplicate paths on the chip to reflect possible changes at each bit. This for example, when writing the original file, every path in its bit range is changed. If the file is 8 quantum bits long and at the very end of chip, the last 8 switches in every possible circuit are changed to reflect that file no matter what path is chosen. If this method writing is chosen, the files should be stored from the beginning switches so that when one is changed, less duplicate changes have to the switches down other paths.

In reality, files that are changed the least should be stored at the base of the triangle because they require the most circuit changes to made to speed up future writing of files closer to the beginning of the circuit.

Further, a second triangle, I will call it the "address triangle," of an equal amount of binary switches should exist connected to a separate circuit. This triangle is used simply to tell the machine where a file begins and ends. A one is placed on the same layer that the first quantum bit of a file is on the other "storage triangle." Two 1s are also placed at the corresponding locations on the address triangle as the last 2 quantum bits of a file on the storage triangle to indicate where a file ends.

To prevent a bug from writing bad addresses to the address triangle to confuse the machine, the storage triangle cannot be written to by the processor directly and it controls the circuit for writing data to the storage triangle.

To write new fe data to the storage triangle, the processor first tells a special cache in the address triangle where the file is to be placed. The address triangle will either return a "yes" if everything is fine or a "no" if the proposed location would overlap more than one address. Next, the processer tells a special three way switch in the address triangle what the changes should be in order of the beginning of the file to the end of the file. The address triangle reads this and uses the cached data about the location of the file to chose where to write the incoming data to. The address triangle is responsible for making sure that the same data is written to each of the possible circuits so that when one file changes, the rest don't change as well. Once all the data has been written, the address triangle updates its address information with the cached data and then closes its writing circut is broken to prevent further attempts to change the data triangle in other ways.

What do you guys think?
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: rdanneskjoldr on January 23, 2015, 08:44:25 pm
...................
Title: Re: [ANN] Jinn
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 23, 2015, 08:56:18 pm
What do you guys think?

I think that you can't store qubits this way. Once you read them back you force these qubits to collapse into 0 or 1.
Title: