elective-stereophonic
elective-stereophonic
NXTcash and NXTmixer singapore
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Latest Stable Nxt Client: Nxt 1.12.2

Pages: 1 2 [All]

Author Topic: NXTcash and NXTmixer  (Read 9200 times)

jl777

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +718/-123
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6170
    • View Profile
NXTcash and NXTmixer
« on: March 28, 2014, 11:25:34 pm »

NXTmixer will be implemented as a handler for NXTprotocol, so all the multigateway work pretty much applies to it. I just need to get the multigateway into testing to get some time to code the NXTmixer.

NXTcash I see as working in tandem with NXTmixer, especially the Step Z, but I want to finish NXTmixer first as we will also get more clarity on zerocash

James
Logged
There are over 1000 people in SuperNET slack! http://slackinvite.supernet.org/ automatically sends you an invite

I am just a simple C programmer

bitcoinpaul

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +590/-590
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3097
  • Karmageddon
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2014, 07:12:26 am »

Any possibility to get these functionalities in the core? Just curious...
Logged
Like my Avatar? Reply now! NXT-M5JR-2L5Z-CFBP-8X7P3

Eadeqa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +83/-68
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1888
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2014, 07:35:37 am »

Any possibility to get these functionalities in the core? Just curious...

No thanks
Logged
NXT-GZYP-FMRT-FQ9K-3YQGS

bitcoinpaul

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +590/-590
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3097
  • Karmageddon
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2014, 08:34:49 am »

Any possibility to get these functionalities in the core? Just curious...

No thanks

That was not my question.
Logged
Like my Avatar? Reply now! NXT-M5JR-2L5Z-CFBP-8X7P3

jl777

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +718/-123
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6170
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2014, 08:54:18 am »

Any possibility to get these functionalities in the core? Just curious...
There is a nonzero probability, but it is not a sure thing.

There could be non-technical issues with putting it into the core, in addition to the big technical issue that I dont know Java. However, once we get parallel chains, then it seems that it could be sort of alongside the core, without really being in the core. I think it being optional is almost a requirement, even though it reduces the effectiveness, we will just need a lot of people to opt into it.

James
Logged
There are over 1000 people in SuperNET slack! http://slackinvite.supernet.org/ automatically sends you an invite

I am just a simple C programmer

bitcoinpaul

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +590/-590
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3097
  • Karmageddon
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2014, 09:00:09 am »

I think it being optional is almost a requirement

Why?
Logged
Like my Avatar? Reply now! NXT-M5JR-2L5Z-CFBP-8X7P3

jl777

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +718/-123
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6170
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2014, 09:06:07 am »

I think it being optional is almost a requirement

Why?
current zerocoin creates 40KB per coin, too big for everyone to be generating.
Logged
There are over 1000 people in SuperNET slack! http://slackinvite.supernet.org/ automatically sends you an invite

I am just a simple C programmer

bitcoinpaul

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +590/-590
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3097
  • Karmageddon
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2014, 09:07:51 am »

Ok, then a parallel chain would be the logical step. Got it.
Logged
Like my Avatar? Reply now! NXT-M5JR-2L5Z-CFBP-8X7P3

voldemort628

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Karma: +6/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2014, 12:46:12 pm »

Any possibility to get these functionalities in the core? Just curious...

No thanks

+1
Logged

IveBeenBit

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +7/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 131
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2014, 10:18:30 pm »

I think it being optional is almost a requirement

Why?
current zerocoin creates 40KB per coin, too big for everyone to be generating.

When you say "current" zerocoin, are you talking about Zerocoin version two, which the source is not yet released, or are you talking about the very first zerocoin protocol that came out?
Logged
I need your suggestions for Nxt Podcast ideas. Click here and speak your mind!

jl777

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +718/-123
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6170
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2014, 11:21:26 pm »

I think it being optional is almost a requirement

Why?
current zerocoin creates 40KB per coin, too big for everyone to be generating.

When you say "current" zerocoin, are you talking about Zerocoin version two, which the source is not yet released, or are you talking about the very first zerocoin protocol that came out?
the original libzerocoin alpha

In general using zerocoin/zerocash tech has significant usability issues. My feeling is that by itself, it doesnt have the desired effect of total anonymity. It needs to be combined with something like NXTmixer. Good news is that NXTmixer has its own benefits on a standalone basis and will combine nicely with NXTcash.

James
Logged
There are over 1000 people in SuperNET slack! http://slackinvite.supernet.org/ automatically sends you an invite

I am just a simple C programmer

superresistant

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Karma: +29/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 327
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2014, 07:47:17 am »


Is there a thread or explanation about the NXTmixer ?

jl777

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +718/-123
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6170
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2014, 02:18:33 pm »


Is there a thread or explanation about the NXTmixer ?
Just on BTT, a back and forth with Anonymint. I cant find the link right off the top of my head, I should probably find it and link it here

James
Logged
There are over 1000 people in SuperNET slack! http://slackinvite.supernet.org/ automatically sends you an invite

I am just a simple C programmer

chanc3r

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +124/-50
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1019
  • NXTInspect
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2014, 02:30:52 pm »


Is there a thread or explanation about the NXTmixer ?
Just on BTT, a back and forth with Anonymint. I cant find the link right off the top of my head, I should probably find it and link it here

James

In my endeavours to understand James work I have those captured too... I will seek to distill into something readable...
But james probably changed it all now anyway  ;D
Logged
NXT: 29996814460165 (NXT-JTA7-B2QR-8BFC-2V222)
@imrimr @NXTinspect

Daedelus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +230/-12
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3280
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2014, 03:24:17 pm »


Is there a thread or explanation about the NXTmixer ?
Just on BTT, a back and forth with Anonymint. I cant find the link right off the top of my head, I should probably find it and link it here

James

In my endeavours to understand James work I have those captured too... I will seek to distill into something readable...
But james probably changed it all now anyway  ;D

... and this will find it's way into the Glossary
Logged
NXT: NXT-4CS7-S4N5-PTH5-A8R2Q

jl777

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +718/-123
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6170
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2014, 07:21:53 pm »

My NXTmixer is based on the idea of a shadow account. Actually two, one for receiving and one for sending. These account numbers are only sent under encryption to the NXTmixer so nobody else will even know you have these accounts.

Now, all spending instructions from NXT accounts are sent under encryption, but everyone is always sending at the same time, so there is no timing analysis possible. People would tell the NXTmixer to send to your normal NXT account, but the NXTmixer reroutes it to your shadow account. You can change the shadow accts at anytime, so if you are receiving payments to shadowA, you now have funds that your can spend from shadowA and while blockchain analysis can find that payments came in and out of shadowA, it could be anybody's acct.

The problem is the initial funding of the shadow account. Unless there are strict restrictions on how much and when, knapsack analysis will be able to correlate funding of shadow accounts. This is where NXTcash comes in. The power of NXTcash (zerocoin) is that it can essentially teleport funds from one account to another (assuming you take proper precautions). However, the need to use a different IPaddress and preferably geolocation makes maintaining anonymity with zerocash type of solutions, not so user friendly.

My thinking is to use the NXTcash mechanism to fund the NXTmixer accounts. There is also the possibility of using AT to provide a funding mechanism. All of this needs to be wrapped into a user friendly interface that makes it push button easy and to enforce best use practices. Realistically, we are looking at summertime before there is any chance of getting all of this into place. I also have not figured out how exactly to deploy this, but it is actively percolating as I work on the other projects, which frequently end up creating nice modules for the anonymity stuff to utilize

James
Logged
There are over 1000 people in SuperNET slack! http://slackinvite.supernet.org/ automatically sends you an invite

I am just a simple C programmer

PoofKnuckle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +111/-7
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 849
  • Your Concern is Noted.
    • View Profile
    • NXT FreeMarket
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2014, 03:13:06 pm »

Not directly related to this, but Dark Wallet was released today, as a "pre-alpha," a day ahead of schedule:

http://darkwallet.is/

It's a Chrome plugin. There is no documentation, but I hear there will be some tomorrow.

Logged
NXT: NXT-WBVP-83YM-FRB3-9MQLY
BM-NBTVHaA41Ejh2G6krD9p5vM62vk84isM

allwelder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +196/-13
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1867
  • NxtChina.org
    • View Profile
    • NxtChina.org
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2014, 11:56:42 pm »

Anybody explain the difference between Nxtcash and Nxtmixer with simple text.
Thanks.
Logged
NxtChina |Weibo |Twitter Donation welcomed:NXT-APL9-66GU-K8LY-B3JJJ

jl777

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +718/-123
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6170
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2014, 07:58:46 pm »

Anybody explain the difference between Nxtcash and Nxtmixer with simple text.
Thanks.
NXTcash is the integration of zerocoin/zerocash to NXT

NXTmixer is totally separate that offers a different method of anonymization. As currently designed, the fact that you funded a NXTmixer acct is open to everyone, but what happens with the funds after it goes into the shadow acct is hidden. However, if you have income source from external party,you can instruct them to pay via NXTmixer and then you are able to fund your NXTmixer shadow account without anybody (other than the one that sent you the funds) knowing.

This is the one weakness of NXTmixer, but NXTcash is designed to allow you to send the funds to yourself without anybody knowing, so it can be used to provide the initial funding of NXTmixer shadow accts. Of course, people will know that you purchased NXTcash, but they wont know where the NXTcash went.

Now, if you had external party that sends you funds via NXTmixer and you purchase NXTcash with that and then fund a separate NXTmixer account, ...

See, all of this can be combined and fed back into each other. Each iteration making it more difficult to correlate. Since NXT does not have txout/txin like all bitcoind forks, it offers a fundamental advantage to mixing and anonymization. I do not believe many people are quite aware of this power of NXT yet

James
Logged
There are over 1000 people in SuperNET slack! http://slackinvite.supernet.org/ automatically sends you an invite

I am just a simple C programmer

Daedelus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +230/-12
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3280
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2014, 09:13:58 pm »

I don't think they do too, exciting! Better let the ae and leased forging concepts settle in first  ;D
Logged
NXT: NXT-4CS7-S4N5-PTH5-A8R2Q

allwelder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +196/-13
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1867
  • NxtChina.org
    • View Profile
    • NxtChina.org
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2014, 12:36:41 am »

Anybody explain the difference between Nxtcash and Nxtmixer with simple text.
Thanks.
NXTcash is the integration of zerocoin/zerocash to NXT

NXTmixer is totally separate that offers a different method of anonymization. As currently designed, the fact that you funded a NXTmixer acct is open to everyone, but what happens with the funds after it goes into the shadow acct is hidden. However, if you have income source from external party,you can instruct them to pay via NXTmixer and then you are able to fund your NXTmixer shadow account without anybody (other than the one that sent you the funds) knowing.

This is the one weakness of NXTmixer, but NXTcash is designed to allow you to send the funds to yourself without anybody knowing, so it can be used to provide the initial funding of NXTmixer shadow accts. Of course, people will know that you purchased NXTcash, but they wont know where the NXTcash went.

Now, if you had external party that sends you funds via NXTmixer and you purchase NXTcash with that and then fund a separate NXTmixer account, ...

See, all of this can be combined and fed back into each other. Each iteration making it more difficult to correlate. Since NXT does not have txout/txin like all bitcoind forks, it offers a fundamental advantage to mixing and anonymization. I do not believe many people are quite aware of this power of NXT yet

James
Got it,thanks.
Now I can educate more ppl. ;D
Logged
NxtChina |Weibo |Twitter Donation welcomed:NXT-APL9-66GU-K8LY-B3JJJ

Daedelus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +230/-12
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3280
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2014, 01:32:15 pm »


Wanted:

Competent C developer that doesn’t sleep much and will work for NXT or any of jl777’s NXT assets (other than NXTventure) for implementation of the…

NXT Anonymity System

(Previously known as NXTCash and NXTMixer, the thread is here >>> https://nxtforum.org/multigateway-jl777/nxtcash-and-nxtmixer/).

From jl777 on the NXT Anonymity System…

Quote
It will not be a single approach, but a combined approach. I will donate this to the community, no fees, no profit making company. This is not an option, it is something that is required. We used to have cash, now that is disappearing. I just want to recreate the characteristics of cash!


PM jl777 for more details if you are interested.  ;D
Logged
NXT: NXT-4CS7-S4N5-PTH5-A8R2Q

drawingthesun

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Karma: +6/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 72
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2014, 07:03:43 pm »

Hey, have you guys considered using ring signature tech or even Monero itself instead of Zerocoin/cash? (that is flawed because of it's initial accumulator issues and unproven mathematics?)

I didnt say i dont agree with privacy. i find nxt and btc to be as private as i require for the activities i carry out. Therefore
i dont need to use drk coin. if i was to be doing something i wanted to keep over kill private then i will use drk. Just been in control of my funds and the transparacy of the blockchain entertains me over central banks.

If you do need strong privacy, check out Monero (It's another coins along with Nxt that I am invested in.)

It's based on CryptoNote technology and offers far stronger anonymity than Darkcoin and has no accumulator issues like Zerocoin/cash will have.

https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf

Anyway, this isn't the place for promoting other coins I know, just wanted you to know that you can gain anonymity without relying on these "darknodes"

Perhaps a decentralized cryptocoin exchange can be built on top of Nxt that would allow you to move into coins like Monero just when you needed rock solid anonymity? Can that be done in Nxt? (decentralized cryptocoin exchange?)
Logged

Sebastien256

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +169/-24
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2823
  • ^LOOK UP^ = Nxt community!
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2014, 07:59:04 pm »

Hey, have you guys considered using ring signature tech or even Monero itself instead of Zerocoin/cash? (that is flawed because of it's initial accumulator issues and unproven mathematics?)

I didnt say i dont agree with privacy. i find nxt and btc to be as private as i require for the activities i carry out. Therefore
i dont need to use drk coin. if i was to be doing something i wanted to keep over kill private then i will use drk. Just been in control of my funds and the transparacy of the blockchain entertains me over central banks.

If you do need strong privacy, check out Monero (It's another coins along with Nxt that I am invested in.)

It's based on CryptoNote technology and offers far stronger anonymity than Darkcoin and has no accumulator issues like Zerocoin/cash will have.

https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf

Anyway, this isn't the place for promoting other coins I know, just wanted you to know that you can gain anonymity without relying on these "darknodes"

Perhaps a decentralized cryptocoin exchange can be built on top of Nxt that would allow you to move into coins like Monero just when you needed rock solid anonymity? Can that be done in Nxt? (decentralized cryptocoin exchange?)

I don't see why it would not be possible. Maybe that is possible by building a Monero multigateway, but that might difficult. A Monero gateway like supercell bitcoin gateway might be easier.
Maybe James or supercell may comment on this.
Logged
Please drop your ideas concerning Nxt and/or NRS in this topic -> List of feature request for Nxt and/or NRS (with the full list in OP).

allwelder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +196/-13
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1867
  • NxtChina.org
    • View Profile
    • NxtChina.org
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2014, 01:59:18 am »

Anonymity is designed to be a choice  but not a necessary feature for users imo.
Logged
NxtChina |Weibo |Twitter Donation welcomed:NXT-APL9-66GU-K8LY-B3JJJ

drawingthesun

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Karma: +6/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 72
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2014, 02:57:58 am »

Anonymity is designed to be a choice  but not a necessary feature for users imo.

I totally agree.

I invested in Monero because I can see it becoming the anonymous default. The blockchain for ring signature coins is large and it's not exactly something most users will want to deal with. Instead of forcing your users to download 20GB for a Nxt side chain with ring signature, instead if you can have a trustless way of moving Nxt in and out of something like Monero you would gain the benefits without the bloat.

Just something to think about.
Logged

ziggy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2014, 07:35:40 am »

as a supporter who have sent a little amount of nxt I hope things go smoothly:)

good luck James!
Logged

ziggy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2014, 01:35:10 am »

Hi,James
Is there any news about this project?
Logged

jl777

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +718/-123
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6170
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2014, 01:44:47 am »

Hi,James
Is there any news about this project?
http://209.126.70.170/DarkPaper.pdf
It morphed into Teleport which grew into SuperNET!
Logged
There are over 1000 people in SuperNET slack! http://slackinvite.supernet.org/ automatically sends you an invite

I am just a simple C programmer

ziggy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2014, 06:46:24 pm »

Hi,James
Is there any news about this project?
http://209.126.70.170/DarkPaper.pdf
It morphed into Teleport which grew into SuperNET!
good!
I have donated a little in this project when I saw the post on BTT
this is my donation record
TxID 11665090002745715591
if there will be any profit for donator please inform me or just sent it back to the address which my donation came from
thank you!

ziggy


Logged

jl777

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +718/-123
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6170
    • View Profile
Re: NXTcash and NXTmixer
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2014, 08:54:00 pm »

Hi,James
Is there any news about this project?
http://209.126.70.170/DarkPaper.pdf
It morphed into Teleport which grew into SuperNET!
good!
I have donated a little in this project when I saw the post on BTT
this is my donation record
TxID 11665090002745715591
if there will be any profit for donator please inform me or just sent it back to the address which my donation came from
thank you!

ziggy
I never controlled the donated funds and this project lost all its funding
Not sure what happened to donated amounts

James
Logged
There are over 1000 people in SuperNET slack! http://slackinvite.supernet.org/ automatically sends you an invite

I am just a simple C programmer
Pages: 1 2 [All]
 

elective-stereophonic
elective-stereophonic
assembly
assembly