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Author Topic: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!  (Read 4305 times)

jl777

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BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« on: April 12, 2014, 02:49:34 pm »

My plan is to add support for a destination address to the multigateway withdrawals (see C below). The comment field allows me to bind a specific redemption request to an external BTC address. Just need the GUI to make it push button easy. It will create a token to verify that the NXT acct holder is the one doing the transfer. If they can create the valid token, they can just as easily just transfer out all the NXT.

With the above, there are still three things:
A) Availability of BTC asset at decent price
B) NXT -> BTC asset
C) BTC asset -> multigateway -> destination BTC address

Maybe A) wont be a problem at all as BTC will probably be a pretty popular asset. If people also knew that simply placing NXT AE orders for NXT -> BTC will support the BTC bridge and enable spending of NXT anywhere BTC is accepted, they might be more inclined to provide the liquidity.

I could create a multigateway function to combine B) and C), but ideally it would need a comment field added to SendMoney API so I can do it seamlessly. There should also be a little GUI support to ensure that there is enough liquidity at the moment and to display the actual cost in NXT for the BTC.

If there isnt enough liquidity, I do have some ideas on how to automatically create some, but it would require punching through orders to a centralized NXT/BTC exchange, with the assorted issues that raises.

James
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kodtycoon

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2014, 09:19:15 pm »

do you think this sort of thing could be summed up in a mobile app? so user doesnt have to pay heed to the AE or anything.. just scans the btc qr code or enter the btc address.. and sends nxt equivalent amount... let the app do everything else in the background? could it be done like that?

on the downside.. everyone "paying in nxt" is really selling there nxt.. merchants still get btc.. so why would merchants ever convert to accepting nxt directly? if it took off it would just be the opposite to what the multipool does but using a different method..
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jl777

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2014, 10:59:37 pm »

do you think this sort of thing could be summed up in a mobile app? so user doesnt have to pay heed to the AE or anything.. just scans the btc qr code or enter the btc address.. and sends nxt equivalent amount... let the app do everything else in the background? could it be done like that?

on the downside.. everyone "paying in nxt" is really selling there nxt.. merchants still get btc.. so why would merchants ever convert to accepting nxt directly? if it took off it would just be the opposite to what the multipool does but using a different method..
As long as the mobile app can send AM messages, thats all that is needed to invoke the multigateway. I dont see any reason it couldnt be done.

Lets see, right now BTC is accepted in how many places? NXT is accepted in how many?
I think NXT gains a lot more by being able to actually be used to buy stuff. As merchants see that NXT is just as good as BTC from this point, before you know it more and more merchants are accepting NXT directly. I think a lot of merchants price things in BTC and to accept things in NXT they have to deal with price fluctuations, so they dont accept NXT. If we could tell merchants that they will get the BTC price equivalent in NXT, then they dont have to deal with the conversion process.

people are buying NXT with BTC now arent they? As long as people sell their BTC through the NXT AE, then I dont see how this is affecting the price of NXT negatively. Remember, for the bridge to work somebody has to sell BTC for NXT so that the user of the bridge can convert NXT to BTC.

Neutral price action.
immediate boost to the utility of NXT

James

P.S. it is probably like nodecoin, it will kill NXT :)
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kodtycoon

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2014, 12:04:12 am »

do you think this sort of thing could be summed up in a mobile app? so user doesnt have to pay heed to the AE or anything.. just scans the btc qr code or enter the btc address.. and sends nxt equivalent amount... let the app do everything else in the background? could it be done like that?

on the downside.. everyone "paying in nxt" is really selling there nxt.. merchants still get btc.. so why would merchants ever convert to accepting nxt directly? if it took off it would just be the opposite to what the multipool does but using a different method..
As long as the mobile app can send AM messages, thats all that is needed to invoke the multigateway. I dont see any reason it couldnt be done.

Lets see, right now BTC is accepted in how many places? NXT is accepted in how many?
I think NXT gains a lot more by being able to actually be used to buy stuff. As merchants see that NXT is just as good as BTC from this point, before you know it more and more merchants are accepting NXT directly. I think a lot of merchants price things in BTC and to accept things in NXT they have to deal with price fluctuations, so they dont accept NXT. If we could tell merchants that they will get the BTC price equivalent in NXT, then they dont have to deal with the conversion process.

people are buying NXT with BTC now arent they? As long as people sell their BTC through the NXT AE, then I dont see how this is affecting the price of NXT negatively. Remember, for the bridge to work somebody has to sell BTC for NXT so that the user of the bridge can convert NXT to BTC.

Neutral price action.
immediate boost to the utility of NXT

James

P.S. it is probably like nodecoin, it will kill NXT :)

so take for example nxtty.. thats a messaging app but from what i know your given a nxt acc but not for storing your own nxt, only for sending messages... say i have my own nxt acc with 10k nxt in it.. and i have the nxtty app(using a different nxt account).. could i send a messages with the app that uses a different account to activate my other account to send 10k nxt through the bridge to buy something with out actually opening my main account and just sending a message to it from my nxtty app?

i could have it all wrong and sorry if i do...lol



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jl777

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2014, 12:13:08 am »

so take for example nxtty.. thats a messaging app but from what i know your given a nxt acc but not for storing your own nxt, only for sending messages... say i have my own nxt acc with 10k nxt in it.. and i have the nxtty app(using a different nxt account).. could i send a messages with the app that uses a different account to activate my other account to send 10k nxt through the bridge to buy something with out actually opening my main account and just sending a message to it from my nxtty app?
Reminds me of "Who's on first"
I dont see how allowing that would be secure.What is to prevent anybody else from requesting to spend money in your 10K acct!

I am requiring that all "money" requests to multigateway generate a "website" token to prove it is a request from the NXT account benefiting from the "money" request. The "website" is actually the transaction details, so not only will the multigateway know it is you, but that you approved of the transaction details. It is my feeling that this makes it as secure as using something like google authenticator since if they can create the exact required token, they can simply drain all your NXT.

The only way this other acct could do that is if it had your password, which I assume it doesnt

James
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mczarnek

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2014, 12:30:01 am »

do you think this sort of thing could be summed up in a mobile app? so user doesnt have to pay heed to the AE or anything.. just scans the btc qr code or enter the btc address.. and sends nxt equivalent amount... let the app do everything else in the background? could it be done like that?

on the downside.. everyone "paying in nxt" is really selling there nxt.. merchants still get btc.. so why would merchants ever convert to accepting nxt directly? if it took off it would just be the opposite to what the multipool does but using a different method..

They would convert because we can implement instant transaction confirmations and we can provide even cheaper transaction fees in the long run.

Also, users can show their support for the energy and cost efficient Nxt while still having the same spendablity and usability.  Nxt becomes preferred by more users.. who encourage merchants to support accepting Nxt directly.

Check this out:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J8uhdshu9epGRrQHBaloGc4itdvuAHZDAUtNDjOhz-8/edit?usp=sharing
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salsacz

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2014, 12:54:46 pm »

automatic btc-ltc convertor: https://coinnector.com/
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jl777

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2014, 03:55:16 pm »

automatic btc-ltc convertor: https://coinnector.com/
https://coinnector.com/?sub=termsofuse

Centralized,you send you coins in and hope for the best. No control of exchange rate, etc.

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salsacz

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2014, 10:09:52 pm »

with this bridge, anyone could use Bitcoin credit card - http://www.wired.com/2014/04/xapo/ with a little upgrade, you could use https://bitpay.com/ and all its features... right?
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marek3ball

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2014, 12:32:18 pm »

I'm looking forward to it. Debit card support is one of the most important services.
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jl777

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2014, 07:38:21 am »

with this bridge, anyone could use Bitcoin credit card - http://www.wired.com/2014/04/xapo/ with a little upgrade, you could use https://bitpay.com/ and all its features... right?
If bitpay does BTC -> fiat and the BTC bridge does NXT -> BTC, then yes combining them would be:
NXT -> BTC -> fiat

not sure if the whole process can be automated, but realistically this project is down on my list, so unless someone else wants to help, it will need to wait until May/June

James
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Daedelus

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2014, 11:19:10 am »

Intmain and Coolfish are talking about doing USD <> Nxt gateways the hard, old fashioned way. It might be worth a look if you think they can do the work your asking for help with.

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/monetarily-industrializing-africa/
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allwelder

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2014, 12:23:18 am »

Can this be combined with Nxtty of NMAC?
Another,NXT-XCP-FIAT is also a choice.
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jl777

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2014, 07:48:21 pm »

Can this be combined with Nxtty of NMAC?
Another,NXT-XCP-FIAT is also a choice.
I havent looked into Nxtty
Also, is there an XCP<->FIAT? I wasnt aware of that

The only paths to fiat from crypto that I know of are ripple <-> fiat, BTC <-> coinbase checking acct, centralized exchanges via money changers

Hopefully some new fiat paths will open up that we can plug into directly or indirectly
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bob_ggg

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2014, 01:55:23 pm »

Can this be combined with Nxtty of NMAC?
Another,NXT-XCP-FIAT is also a choice.
I havent looked into Nxtty
Also, is there an XCP<->FIAT? I wasnt aware of that

The only paths to fiat from crypto that I know of are ripple <-> fiat, BTC <-> coinbase checking acct, centralized exchanges via money changers

Hopefully some new fiat paths will open up that we can plug into directly or indirectly
Any experience with this direct Nxt <-> fiat?

https://bter.com/trade/nxt_cny
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jl777

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2014, 06:33:31 pm »

Can this be combined with Nxtty of NMAC?
Another,NXT-XCP-FIAT is also a choice.
I havent looked into Nxtty
Also, is there an XCP<->FIAT? I wasnt aware of that

The only paths to fiat from crypto that I know of are ripple <-> fiat, BTC <-> coinbase checking acct, centralized exchanges via money changers

Hopefully some new fiat paths will open up that we can plug into directly or indirectly
Any experience with this direct Nxt <-> fiat?

https://bter.com/trade/nxt_cny
I have actually traded some NXT/CNY on bter, but never did a withdraw as I believe that requires an acct in Chinese bank. So maybe there is a viable NXT<-> fiat path already, as long as you are in China
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allwelder

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2014, 12:31:13 am »

Can this be combined with Nxtty of NMAC?
Another,NXT-XCP-FIAT is also a choice.
I havent looked into Nxtty
Also, is there an XCP<->FIAT? I wasnt aware of that

The only paths to fiat from crypto that I know of are ripple <-> fiat, BTC <-> coinbase checking acct, centralized exchanges via money changers

Hopefully some new fiat paths will open up that we can plug into directly or indirectly
sorry for my error,I just mean XRP<>FIAT.
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allwelder

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2014, 12:33:06 am »

Can this be combined with Nxtty of NMAC?
Another,NXT-XCP-FIAT is also a choice.
I havent looked into Nxtty
Also, is there an XCP<->FIAT? I wasnt aware of that

The only paths to fiat from crypto that I know of are ripple <-> fiat, BTC <-> coinbase checking acct, centralized exchanges via money changers

Hopefully some new fiat paths will open up that we can plug into directly or indirectly
Any experience with this direct Nxt <-> fiat?

https://bter.com/trade/nxt_cny
I have actually traded some NXT/CNY on bter, but never did a withdraw as I believe that requires an acct in Chinese bank. So maybe there is a viable NXT<-> fiat path already, as long as you are in China
Yes,bter is available for NXT<>CNY.
Foreigners can construct a Chinese acc and then exchange with fiat. :D
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bob_ggg

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Re: BTC bridge: buy anything with NXT that you can buy for BTC!
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2014, 06:20:36 pm »

Yes,bter is available for NXT<>CNY.
Foreigners can construct a Chinese acc and then exchange with fiat. :D
Could you give some more details about this procedure? How does the deposit and withdrawals of fiat are managed?
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