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Author Topic: New MS coin idea  (Read 3074 times)

coretechs

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New MS coin idea
« on: March 03, 2015, 02:38:52 pm »

"Mineable" - a claimable coin that has all the NXT locked by the issuer when it is created, and can then be minted.  The users who mint the coin can directly redeem it for NXT.  Basically it would be a combination of claimable and mintable.

Right now its not attractive to mint an MS currency unless there is a market for it.  With a "mineable" coin the value of the MS coin is locked at creation so the minted coins value should track with the NXT price.  If the NXT price increases, the coin will be more valuable to mint and should attract a lot of minting activity, esp if the issuer sets a fixed or low diff range.

Also, it would be awesome if the issuer could continue to issue additional coins so long as they are at the same ratio, but possibly allow them to specify a new diff range for each additional batch.  I am picturing a forging pool that automatically converts collected fees into more mineable coins.

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valarmg

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Re: New MS coin idea
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2015, 04:25:42 pm »

"Mineable" - a claimable coin that has all the NXT locked by the issuer when it is created, and can then be minted.  The users who mint the coin can directly redeem it for NXT.  Basically it would be a combination of claimable and mintable.

Right now its not attractive to mint an MS currency unless there is a market for it.  With a "mineable" coin the value of the MS coin is locked at creation so the minted coins value should track with the NXT price.  If the NXT price increases, the coin will be more valuable to mint and should attract a lot of minting activity, esp if the issuer sets a fixed or low diff range.

Also, it would be awesome if the issuer could continue to issue additional coins so long as they are at the same ratio, but possibly allow them to specify a new diff range for each additional batch.  I am picturing a forging pool that automatically converts collected fees into more mineable coins.

The idea of locking Nxt for a coin is that you can unlock at a later stage if the coin fails.

In this case, if you lock 1000NXT for 1000 coins, then allow minting so there are maybe 3000 coins in a few months time, you won't be able to get back the 1:1 ratio because there are now 3 MScoins for every 1 Nxt, and it would be continually be devalued as more minting happens. So people would unlock their Nxt as soon as they could (including minters) until all the Nxt was gone, then the coin would be as valueless as before.
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coretechs

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Re: New MS coin idea
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2015, 09:16:56 pm »

In this case, if you lock 1000NXT for 1000 coins, then allow minting so there are maybe 3000 coins in a few months time, you won't be able to get back the 1:1 ratio because there are now 3 MScoins for every 1 Nxt, and it would be continually be devalued as more minting happens. So people would unlock their Nxt as soon as they could (including minters) until all the Nxt was gone, then the coin would be as valueless as before.

Not sure how you get 3000?  In my proposal, if you lock 1000 NXT for 1000 coins, the max number of coins that could be minted is 1000 and they would all be redeemable at 1:1.  Once you locked the NXT, the MS coins would not exist until they are minted.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 09:31:08 pm by coretechs »
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coretechs

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Re: New MS coin idea
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2015, 09:30:25 pm »

Actually thinking about it more, to "hold" the locked NXT in this situation the issuing account would own the MS units and the currency type would set them so they are unable to be transferred/deleted/redeemed by the issuer.  When a mint was accepted it would deduct from the issuers balance of MS coins.

Optionally, to give minimal control to the issuer, an expiration height could be set where any non-minted units auto-redeem/claim back to the issuer account.
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Riker

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Re: New MS coin idea
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2015, 09:46:27 pm »

Hi coretechs, I'm not sure which problem you are trying to solve, unlike Bitcoin in NXT minting does not help secure the network.
In my view, the purpose of minting should be a complementary service to create new currency units for a currency which has some intrinsic value originating from what it represents.
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valarmg

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Re: New MS coin idea
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2015, 09:53:43 pm »

In this case, if you lock 1000NXT for 1000 coins, then allow minting so there are maybe 3000 coins in a few months time, you won't be able to get back the 1:1 ratio because there are now 3 MScoins for every 1 Nxt, and it would be continually be devalued as more minting happens. So people would unlock their Nxt as soon as they could (including minters) until all the Nxt was gone, then the coin would be as valueless as before.

Not sure how you get 3000?  In my proposal, if you lock 1000 NXT for 1000 coins, the max number of coins that could be minted is 1000 and they would all be redeemable at 1:1.  Once you locked the NXT, the MS coins would not exist until they are minted.

So basically the issuer would be giving away whatever amount of Nxt he wants to lock? Issuer would lock 1000 Nxt, minters would come along and mint all the coins, then most likely redeem them for Nxt. I don't really see any value created, just someone giving away money to people with big computers.

I think James is thinking of trying something of the kind (I'm not sure if this plan is still going ahead, but I believe so). He's creating a MScoin that maps to silver coins. To publicize this asset, a number of coins can be minted at the highest difficulty. So he allocates a certain amount of silver, which he'll provide, for these minters creating coins.

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coretechs

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Re: New MS coin idea
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2015, 12:02:12 am »

There's no particular problem I'm trying to solve, just a way to distribute Nxt via proof-of-work and an interesting use of the monetary system.  It is like burying treasure that others have to dig up.  Miners will hash coins like this no matter what because the reward is locked in place and unaffected by demand (aside from Nxt itself).
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valarmg

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Re: New MS coin idea
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2015, 12:35:15 am »

There's no particular problem I'm trying to solve, just a way to distribute Nxt via proof-of-work and an interesting use of the monetary system.  It is like burying treasure that others have to dig up.  Miners will hash coins like this no matter what because the reward is locked in place and unaffected by demand (aside from Nxt itself).

Interesting idea. Do you think that people would be willing to donate Nxt for distribution via proof-of-work? An alternate way of doing this would be to create a mintable currency and guarantee a buy wall.
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coretechs

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Re: New MS coin idea
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2015, 01:42:21 am »

Do you think that people would be willing to donate Nxt for distribution via proof-of-work?

Maybe.  Probably no more than they are willing to donate to a faucet.

An alternate way of doing this would be to create a mintable currency and guarantee a buy wall.

Yes this is essentially what it is, just that the "buy wall" can't be pulled, it is guaranteed by being locked into the currency.
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coretechs

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Re: New MS coin idea
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2015, 01:55:52 am »

Another possibility would be a single hard-coded MS currency like this that had the genesis account as the issuer.  Any NXT that are burned in the genesis account could come back into circulation via proof-of-work minting.  This would give miners a chance to recover lost/burned NXT.  Difficulty could be inversely proportional to the amount of burned NXT.  Right now there are ~3000 NXT that are permanently destroyed and this would be a fair way to allow them to come back into circulation.

(Unfortunately I think it would be too much of a fundamental change to implement)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 01:58:56 am by coretechs »
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valarmg

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Re: New MS coin idea
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2015, 09:22:21 am »

Do you think that people would be willing to donate Nxt for distribution via proof-of-work?

Maybe.  Probably no more than they are willing to donate to a faucet.

I guess what's the point in having the devs work on creating something that won't be used, adding to the complexity of the already underused MS.
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rudeboi

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Re: New MS coin idea
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2015, 06:18:50 pm »

Having something like that would have been handy to initially distribute some NXT, but MS wasn't around then, and you can achieve the same just by putting a buy wall up.
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Daedelus

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Re: New MS coin idea
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2015, 11:17:54 am »

CfB is planning on distributing (Qubic?) using an MSCoin.

Not exactly the same as the coins are external from Nxt but still interesting

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=964494.msg10552853#msg10552853
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