elective-stereophonic
elective-stereophonic
Monetary System documentation
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Latest Stable Nxt Client: Nxt 1.12.2

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 8  All

Author Topic: Monetary System documentation  (Read 52425 times)

gs02xzz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +56/-12
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1101
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2014, 10:47:17 pm »

Here is our new proposal:
1. Unique currency code and currency name and uniqueness is also enforced between codes and names to avoid confusion.
2. Currency code is all upper case between 3 and 5 characters, the name "NXT" is reserved, this provides 26^3 + 26^4 + 26^5 - 1 = 12355927 possibilities
3. Currency name is alphanumeric and not shorter than the currency code.
4. Issuance fee depends on the currency code length, the shorter the length the higher the fee. We consider two options of code length to issuance fee mapping:
(a) The "decimal": 3 - 10000 ,  4 - 1000 , 5 - 100 (rational: simple to remember)
(b) The "twenty fiver": 3 - 25000 , 4 - 1000 , 5 - 40 (rational: 26 alphabet letters but 25 divides better)
In case you already issued a currency and would like to reissue it with different properties you always pay the lower fee.

Great!
Logged
Nxt Mission is to commercialize the crypto technology and build new commerce and society.

NxtMinnow

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Karma: +19/-7
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 110
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2014, 11:11:26 pm »

For maximum potential compatibility with current global payment standards, should NXT MS stick to 3-alphanumeric codes for currencies as per ISO 4217 standards?
Logged

Darkhorse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +61/-8
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1016
  • Keep It Simple
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #62 on: November 07, 2014, 12:51:20 am »

What does 4 a) and 4 b) means?
Logged
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬  ▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄  ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●  nimirum  ●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
▬▬▬ ◖ENDING CENSHORSIP ONLINE◗  ◖ ICO OPEN NOW◗ ▬▬▬

Riker

  • Core Dev
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +440/-42
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1796
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #63 on: November 07, 2014, 07:55:29 am »

What does 4 a) and 4 b) means?

To clarify, our recommendation is to go with the following fee structure:
Currency Code   Fee
3 Letters25000 NXT
4 Letters1000 NXT
5 Letters40 NXT
Re-issue40 NXT


Logged
NXT Core Dev
Account: NXT-HBFW-X8TE-WXPW-DZFAG
Public Key: D8311651 Key fingerprint: 0560 443B 035C EE08 0EC0  D2DD 275E 94A7 D831 1651

Riker

  • Core Dev
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +440/-42
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1796
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #64 on: November 07, 2014, 07:57:04 am »

For maximum potential compatibility with current global payment standards, should NXT MS stick to 3-alphanumeric codes for currencies as per ISO 4217 standards?

Please read the full discussion and let us know if you have further questions.
Logged
NXT Core Dev
Account: NXT-HBFW-X8TE-WXPW-DZFAG
Public Key: D8311651 Key fingerprint: 0560 443B 035C EE08 0EC0  D2DD 275E 94A7 D831 1651

Riker

  • Core Dev
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +440/-42
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1796
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #65 on: November 07, 2014, 08:00:38 am »

I am so excited what MS will be. It is going to be very interesting how people will make use of it. Thanks to the devs for their hard work!  :)

Edit: And PLEASE no uniqueness! Let's stay consistent here.

We respect your feedback but we'll use unique currency code and name. This has been decided already.
Logged
NXT Core Dev
Account: NXT-HBFW-X8TE-WXPW-DZFAG
Public Key: D8311651 Key fingerprint: 0560 443B 035C EE08 0EC0  D2DD 275E 94A7 D831 1651

Ludom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +197/-15
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1733
    • View Profile
    • Plaisir & Valeur d'histoire
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #66 on: November 07, 2014, 11:22:03 am »

What does 4 a) and 4 b) means?

To clarify, our recommendation is to go with the following fee structure:
Currency Code   Fee
3 Letters25000 NXT
4 Letters1000 NXT
5 Letters40 NXT
Re-issue40 NXT

Thanks so much for this smart proposition.

I think it's a great one.
Logged
Support us to publish "The first book about Nxt"

Darkhorse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +61/-8
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1016
  • Keep It Simple
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #67 on: November 07, 2014, 12:49:16 pm »

What does 4 a) and 4 b) means?

To clarify, our recommendation is to go with the following fee structure:
Currency Code   Fee
3 Letters25000 NXT
4 Letters1000 NXT
5 Letters40 NXT
Re-issue40 NXT

Is this fee different from locking nxt, lyaffe?
Logged
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬  ▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄  ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●  nimirum  ●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
▬▬▬ ◖ENDING CENSHORSIP ONLINE◗  ◖ ICO OPEN NOW◗ ▬▬▬

gs02xzz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +56/-12
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1101
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #68 on: November 07, 2014, 05:19:13 pm »

We respect your feedback but we'll use unique currency code and name. This has been decided already.

Thanks!
Logged
Nxt Mission is to commercialize the crypto technology and build new commerce and society.

Riker

  • Core Dev
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +440/-42
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1796
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #69 on: November 07, 2014, 09:01:54 pm »

Is this fee different from locking nxt, lyaffe?

Yes, fee is one expense related to currency issuance, however when referring to locking NXT we refer to reseravable currency as explained in the documentation:
"RESERVABLE - means that the currency units are not issued immediately. Instead the currency issuer sets a block height at which the currency will be issued and a limit of NXT needed in order to issue the currency. Currency "founders" then lock their NXT to reserve their currency stake. If the amount of NXT needed in order to issue the currency is not reserved before reaching the block height the issuance is cancelled and funds are returned minus fees. If the required reserve is allocated, the currency is issued and units are split between founders according to their proportional stake of invested NXT. In case of rounding, leftovers are sent to the issuer account. Reservable currency can be used as crowd funding tool where the issued currency units serve as stake in the issued currency."
Logged
NXT Core Dev
Account: NXT-HBFW-X8TE-WXPW-DZFAG
Public Key: D8311651 Key fingerprint: 0560 443B 035C EE08 0EC0  D2DD 275E 94A7 D831 1651

Pouncer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Karma: +30/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 65
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #70 on: November 07, 2014, 10:55:17 pm »

Currency "founders" then lock their NXT to reserve their currency stake. If the amount of NXT needed in order to issue the currency is not reserved before reaching the block height the issuance is cancelled and funds are returned minus fees. If the required reserve is allocated, the currency is issued and units are split between founders according to their proportional stake of invested NXT.

What happens when MS becomes very popular and a basket of currencies have been issued with a total reserve of 900 Million NXT and all reserved NXT have been locked? Since locked NXT are excluded from effective balance, we're left with only 100M NXT effective balance for forging and securing the network. What happens if all NXT have been locked?
Logged

ChuckOne

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +293/-17
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3450
  • ☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #71 on: November 07, 2014, 11:28:36 pm »

What happens when MS becomes very popular and a basket of currencies have been issued with a total reserve of 900 Million NXT and all reserved NXT have been locked? Since locked NXT are excluded from effective balance, we're left with only 100M NXT effective balance for forging and securing the network. What happens if all NXT have been locked?

Good point. Reducing the total effective balance so it compensated for the reduction would help for the 100M NXT case. For 0 NXTs left, well, that would pose a problem.

@Lior
Do you think disabling the combination 'reservable - mintable' and 'reservable - not-claimable' would help here? That should be remove the cases where people cannot get back their locked NXTs. So, in case of too low amount of NXT, people can claim their NXTs and keep the system running.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 11:32:24 pm by ChuckOne »
Logged

Pouncer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Karma: +30/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 65
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #72 on: November 07, 2014, 11:43:25 pm »

What happens when MS becomes very popular and a basket of currencies have been issued with a total reserve of 900 Million NXT and all reserved NXT have been locked? Since locked NXT are excluded from effective balance, we're left with only 100M NXT effective balance for forging and securing the network. What happens if all NXT have been locked?

Good point. Reducing the total effective balance so it compensated for the reduction would help for the 100M NXT case. For 0 NXTs left, well, that would pose a problem.

@Lior
Do you think disabling the combination 'reservable - mintable' and 'reservable - not-claimable' would help here?

If that happens before TF full implementation, a whale or attacker with as little as 25M NXT will be able to compromise the NXT network (and all the currencies built on top of it). This is assuming less than half of remaining effective balance actually forge, as is the case now.

Also, since MS is designed as a second phase of decentralizing (wealth distribution), attempting to reduce relative value of "inactive NXT holders" vis a vis new MS currencies, this scenario of ending up with a large proportion of NXT locked is quite possible. Help us understand how security of NXT network will not be compromised.
Logged

gs02xzz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +56/-12
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1101
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #73 on: November 08, 2014, 02:23:19 am »

I assume that long before MS can become that popular, the TF and ecomny clusters will be able to be in place already to take care of that issue. It seems that the popularity of MS will be equal to the growth of economy clusters.
Logged
Nxt Mission is to commercialize the crypto technology and build new commerce and society.

Riker

  • Core Dev
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +440/-42
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1796
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #74 on: November 08, 2014, 08:24:06 am »

What happens when MS becomes very popular and a basket of currencies have been issued with a total reserve of 900 Million NXT and all reserved NXT have been locked? Since locked NXT are excluded from effective balance, we're left with only 100M NXT effective balance for forging and securing the network. What happens if all NXT have been locked?

Its a good point and we need to think about it. We already have this problem to lesser extent whenever we lock unconfirmed balance, for example with the asset exchange. what if people place bid orders which are not executed yet for 900M this also locks NXT.

I think that if only 100M NXT are left people would have better chance of forging and therefore they have incentive to claim their currency reserves or exchange the currency back to NXT but this does not prevent denial of service.
Logged
NXT Core Dev
Account: NXT-HBFW-X8TE-WXPW-DZFAG
Public Key: D8311651 Key fingerprint: 0560 443B 035C EE08 0EC0  D2DD 275E 94A7 D831 1651

Riker

  • Core Dev
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +440/-42
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1796
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #75 on: November 08, 2014, 08:33:06 am »

@Lior
Do you think disabling the combination 'reservable - mintable' and 'reservable - not-claimable' would help here? That should be remove the cases where people cannot get back their locked NXTs. So, in case of too low amount of NXT, people can claim their NXTs and keep the system running.

Reserveable/mintable but not claimable is Ok since the only way to convert currency units to NXT is using exchange and the market can give the currency a value factoring in the number of minted units for inflation.

In my view the most problematic property is claimable since it allows holders to claim their currency units for NXT at any given time for a known rate.
This means that whoever mints units can claim them immediately for NXT they did not lock. So the combination of claimable/mintable should be prevented.
Logged
NXT Core Dev
Account: NXT-HBFW-X8TE-WXPW-DZFAG
Public Key: D8311651 Key fingerprint: 0560 443B 035C EE08 0EC0  D2DD 275E 94A7 D831 1651

ChuckOne

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +293/-17
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3450
  • ☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #76 on: November 08, 2014, 09:25:59 am »

@Lior
Do you think disabling the combination 'reservable - mintable' and 'reservable - not-claimable' would help here? That should be remove the cases where people cannot get back their locked NXTs. So, in case of too low amount of NXT, people can claim their NXTs and keep the system running.

Reserveable/mintable but not claimable is Ok since the only way to convert currency units to NXT is using exchange and the market can give the currency a value factoring in the number of minted units for inflation.

In my view the most problematic property is claimable since it allows holders to claim their currency units for NXT at any given time for a known rate.
This means that whoever mints units can claim them immediately for NXT they did not lock. So the combination of claimable/mintable should be prevented.

The point was to avoid situations where NXTs get lost (reservable but not claimable). This would be new to Nxt and I am not a fan of it.
Logged

ChuckOne

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +293/-17
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3450
  • ☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #77 on: November 08, 2014, 09:29:22 am »

What happens when MS becomes very popular and a basket of currencies have been issued with a total reserve of 900 Million NXT and all reserved NXT have been locked? Since locked NXT are excluded from effective balance, we're left with only 100M NXT effective balance for forging and securing the network. What happens if all NXT have been locked?

Its a good point and we need to think about it. We already have this problem to lesser extent whenever we lock unconfirmed balance, for example with the asset exchange. what if people place bid orders which are not executed yet for 900M this also locks NXT.

I think that if only 100M NXT are left people would have better chance of forging and therefore they have incentive to claim their currency reserves or exchange the currency back to NXT but this does not prevent denial of service.

People can forge even with 1000 NXT that is distributed over 100 people.
Logged

Pouncer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Karma: +30/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 65
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #78 on: November 08, 2014, 09:47:40 am »


I think that if only 100M NXT are left people would have better chance of forging and therefore they have incentive to claim their currency reserves or exchange the currency back to NXT but this does not prevent denial of service.

1. Why would holders of MS currencies claim back their NXT if by then these currencies will be worth more than the locked NXT?
2. If or when we reach that level, most transactions will likely be done in MS currencies, and since tx fees will be in MS currencies, what will be the incentive to forge NXT?
3. By then, remaining poor sleeping NXT whales will not be incentivised to continue securing the network for the rich MS whales (who don't have to do any forging/securing) ???

People can forge even with 1000 NXT that is distributed over 100 people.
With so few NXT (effective balance) left, wouldn't this make the network easy to attack?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2014, 09:51:46 am by Pouncer »
Logged

ChuckOne

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Karma: +293/-17
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3450
  • ☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82
    • View Profile
Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #79 on: November 08, 2014, 10:00:49 am »

1. Why would holders of MS currencies claim back their NXT if by then these currencies will be worth more than the locked NXT?
2. If or when we reach that level, most transactions will likely be done in MS currencies, and since tx fees will be in MS currencies, what will be the incentive to forge NXT?
3. By then, remaining poor sleeping NXT whales will not be incentivised to continue securing the network for the rich MS whales (who don't have to do any forging/securing) ???


To clear up some statements and facts:

1) fees will always be in NXT
2) Whales are and will remain the backbone of securing the Nxt blockchain. They will always be able to sell NXT (the fuel that is necessary to have transactions verified) to users in exchange for currencies that they then can use to buy needed goods and services.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 8  All
 

elective-stereophonic
elective-stereophonic
assembly
assembly