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Monetary System documentation
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Riker

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2014, 01:37:29 pm »

What we especially dislike about the non-unique asset names are the fake assets that cause users to lose their funds.

Really? R we playing ping pong or what?

I'm not following your logic ...
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bitcoinpaul

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2014, 01:38:41 pm »

What we especially dislike about the non-unique asset names are the fake assets that cause users to lose their funds.

Really? R we playing ping pong or what?

I'm not following your logic ...

Everyone knew there would be scams and traps with non-unique asset names. What's the difference to MS?
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Darkhorse

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2014, 10:23:51 am »

I am a little confused. Is the 1000 nxt to issue a coin on MS System is the locking amount? Or are those 2 separate thing? How will the nxt tx fee works when flexi fee is introduced with MS? any idea on those?

17576 = max number of currencies can be issued. As you know, that is not a very big number. With the cap on only 3 chars and unique, how do you plan to control the currencies registry? This is also defeating the purpose of having a non unique currency name. is 1000 nxt going to stop someone from "booking" a few good name.
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Riker

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2014, 10:51:55 am »

I am a little confused. Is the 1000 nxt to issue a coin on MS System is the locking amount? Or are those 2 separate thing? How will the nxt tx fee works when flexi fee is introduced with MS? any idea on those?

17576 = max number of currencies can be issued. As you know, that is not a very big number. With the cap on only 3 chars and unique, how do you plan to control the currencies registry? This is also defeating the purpose of having a non unique currency name. is 1000 nxt going to stop someone from "booking" a few good name.

You are right,  we are reconsidering the issue of currency code length and fees. we'll post further updates once we decide.
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Darkhorse

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2014, 10:55:16 am »

I am a little confused. Is the 1000 nxt to issue a coin on MS System is the locking amount? Or are those 2 separate thing? How will the nxt tx fee works when flexi fee is introduced with MS? any idea on those?

17576 = max number of currencies can be issued. As you know, that is not a very big number. With the cap on only 3 chars and unique, how do you plan to control the currencies registry? This is also defeating the purpose of having a non unique currency name. is 1000 nxt going to stop someone from "booking" a few good name.

You are right,  we are reconsidering the issue of currency code length and fees. we'll post further updates once we decide.

Good man.
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Sebastien256

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2014, 12:33:02 pm »

What we especially dislike about the non-unique asset names are the fake assets that cause users to lose their funds.

Really? R we playing ping pong or what?

I'm not following your logic ...

Everyone knew there would be scams and traps with non-unique asset names. What's the difference to MS?

Yeah, MS should be like asset and permit non unique name. This has been discuss and the past and I'm very happy the way AE exchange is working now. You need to find the asset id from a trust source, it should be the same for the MS.
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v39453

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2014, 12:55:53 pm »

What we especially dislike about the non-unique asset names are the fake assets that cause users to lose their funds.

Really? R we playing ping pong or what?

I'm not following your logic ...

Everyone knew there would be scams and traps with non-unique asset names. What's the difference to MS?

The difference is that it is a chance to make a new decision. There is no need to repeat a bad decision.
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Sebastien256

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2014, 01:02:20 pm »

What we especially dislike about the non-unique asset names are the fake assets that cause users to lose their funds.

Really? R we playing ping pong or what?

I'm not following your logic ...

Everyone knew there would be scams and traps with non-unique asset names. What's the difference to MS?

The difference is that it is a chance to make a new decision. There is no need to repeat a bad decision.

fake name will also be present even if name are unique. This will not stop the scammer, but instead promote squattering.

Making name unique  simply limit the system. This is not good imo.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 01:06:07 pm by Sebastien256 »
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monsterer

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2014, 01:43:29 pm »

fake name will also be present even if name are unique. This will not stop the scammer, but instead promote squattering.

Making name unique  simply limit the system. This is not good imo.

Squatting is a million times better than scamming. Scamming effects the currency as a whole, whereas squatting only affects a tiny part of it.
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Sebastien256

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2014, 01:45:06 pm »

fake name will also be present even if name are unique. This will not stop the scammer, but instead promote squattering.

Making name unique  simply limit the system. This is not good imo.

Squatting is a million times better than scamming. Scamming effects the currency as a whole, whereas squatting only affects a tiny part of it.

What I'm trying to say is that unique name won't stop the scammer.
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bitcoinpaul

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2014, 02:16:32 pm »

The difference is that it is a chance to make a new decision. There is no need to repeat a bad decision.

if this is the reason behind this i want to hear it from a core dev.
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monsterer

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2014, 06:32:39 pm »

What I'm trying to say is that unique name won't stop the scammer.

It'll stop them from performing that particular scam, though. The AE is already rife with scam assets with duplicate names, I agree, theres no need to repeat that mistake here.
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Sebastien256

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2014, 06:53:33 pm »

What I'm trying to say is that unique name won't stop the scammer.

It'll stop them from performing that particular scam, though. The AE is already rife with scam assets with duplicate names, I agree, theres no need to repeat that mistake here.

I'll turn the question around, why limiting Nxt with a fix number of possible currency? The only argument I saw so far is to babysit poor investors that do not do their own diligence? Seriously, scammer can't be avoid in this decentralized world. I am the only one to think that this is problematic to limit Nxt? Please people if you think it is problematic then state your opinion in here.

EDIT: When I think "fix number of currency", it let me think as a similiar case: "the Millennium bug"! You know how this bug had cost to society?

For your info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2000_problem

You devs are designing an app (Nxt MS) that you don't even know in full what will be it future application. I believe it is not the time to already put limitation into the system. That might turn out to be a bad design in the future.

EDIT2: It should be the job of the client and service on top of Nxt to protect people from scam, it should not be the job of the Nxt core to do that. Please build an application where only sky is the limit. I'm very surprise that we have this discussion once again.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 07:20:55 pm by Sebastien256 »
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monsterer

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2014, 07:31:07 pm »

I'll turn the question around, why limiting Nxt with a fix number of possible currency? The only argument I saw so far is to babysit poor

They've already limited the possible number of currencies with the three letter symbol name.

Quote
EDIT2: It should be the job of the client and service on top of Nxt to protect people from scam, it should not be the job of the Nxt core to do that. Please build an application where only sky is the limit. I'm very surprise that we have this discussion once again.

Cryptocurrencies are famed for being safe havens for scammers, by allowing duplicate currencies/assets you are basically giving them free rain to carry on doing that forever.

If newcomers get scammed, they get a bad impression of the currency system, the NXT community and NXT in general. This is very low hanging fruit for a scammmer, why give them the option?
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Sebastien256

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2014, 07:35:39 pm »

I'll turn the question around, why limiting Nxt with a fix number of possible currency? The only argument I saw so far is to babysit poor

They've already limited the possible number of currencies with the three letter symbol name.

Quote
EDIT2: It should be the job of the client and service on top of Nxt to protect people from scam, it should not be the job of the Nxt core to do that. Please build an application where only sky is the limit. I'm very surprise that we have this discussion once again.

Cryptocurrencies are famed for being safe havens for scammers, by allowing duplicate currencies/assets you are basically giving them free rain to carry on doing that forever.

If newcomers get scammed, they get a bad impression of the currency system, the NXT community and NXT in general. This is very low hanging fruit for a scammmer, why give them the option?

I'm sorry, but I think you don't see far enought in the future. It is of my opinion that in 5 years, 90% of the users won't even know that they are using Nxt or Nxt MS. The people that will need to use Nxt will know and understand how to use it. We just need to build the structure arount Nxt so that it will be easy to use, client service, etc... Please don't put limitation in the core.

Quote
They've already limited the possible number of currencies with the three letter symbol name.

It is not limited if you can create as much of you want of those 3 letter symbol coins (non-uniqueness) .
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Riker

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2014, 07:36:15 pm »

Here is our new proposal:
1. Unique currency code and currency name and uniqueness is also enforced between codes and names to avoid confusion.
2. Currency code is all upper case between 3 and 5 characters, the name "NXT" is reserved, this provides 26^3 + 26^4 + 26^5 - 1 = 12355927 possibilities
3. Currency name is alphanumeric and not shorter than the currency code.
4. Issuance fee depends on the currency code length, the shorter the length the higher the fee. We consider two options of code length to issuance fee mapping:
(a) The "decimal": 3 - 10000 ,  4 - 1000 , 5 - 100 (rational: simple to remember)
(b) The "twenty fiver": 3 - 25000 , 4 - 1000 , 5 - 40 (rational: 26 alphabet letters but 25 divides better)
In case you already issued a currency and would like to reissue it with different properties you always pay the lower fee.
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Sebastien256

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2014, 08:18:40 pm »

Here is our new proposal:
1. Unique currency code and currency name and uniqueness is also enforced between codes and names to avoid confusion.
2. Currency code is all upper case between 3 and 5 characters, the name "NXT" is reserved, this provides 26^3 + 26^4 + 26^5 - 1 = 12355927 possibilities
3. Currency name is alphanumeric and not shorter than the currency code.
4. Issuance fee depends on the currency code length, the shorter the length the higher the fee. We consider two options of code length to issuance fee mapping:
(a) The "decimal": 3 - 10000 ,  4 - 1000 , 5 - 100 (rational: simple to remember)
(b) The "twenty fiver": 3 - 25000 , 4 - 1000 , 5 - 40 (rational: 26 alphabet letters but 25 divides better)
In case you already issued a currency and would like to reissue it with different properties you always pay the lower fee.

Altough it took sometime to understand. I believe this system is much better than the first one propose.
@lyaffe
A) In the case of need, would it be easy to extend the Nxt core to more than 5 chars in the future?
B) Is the reissuing of a currency would be limit to the first account that create the first currency code? If the case, would it be possible to make this right transferable to another Nxt account in the case the account is compromise?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 08:21:13 pm by Sebastien256 »
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Riker

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2014, 08:58:33 pm »

A) In the case of need, would it be easy to extend the Nxt core to more than 5 chars in the future?
B) Is the reissuing of a currency would be limit to the first account that create the first currency code? If the case, would it be possible to make this right transferable to another Nxt account in the case the account is compromise?

A) Changing the currency code validation criteria will require a fork since the peers still running the old version will reject the longer currency codes.
B) In order to delete or re-issue a currency you must be the owner of all available currency units.
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msin

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2014, 10:08:25 pm »

Here is our new proposal:
1. Unique currency code and currency name and uniqueness is also enforced between codes and names to avoid confusion.
2. Currency code is all upper case between 3 and 5 characters, the name "NXT" is reserved, this provides 26^3 + 26^4 + 26^5 - 1 = 12355927 possibilities
3. Currency name is alphanumeric and not shorter than the currency code.
4. Issuance fee depends on the currency code length, the shorter the length the higher the fee. We consider two options of code length to issuance fee mapping:
(a) The "decimal": 3 - 10000 ,  4 - 1000 , 5 - 100 (rational: simple to remember)
(b) The "twenty fiver": 3 - 25000 , 4 - 1000 , 5 - 40 (rational: 26 alphabet letters but 25 divides better)
In case you already issued a currency and would like to reissue it with different properties you always pay the lower fee.

Sounds great, stick to it and let's test on testnet!
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durerus

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Re: Monetary System documentation
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2014, 10:29:47 pm »

I am so excited what MS will be. It is going to be very interesting how people will make use of it. Thanks to the devs for their hard work!  :)

Edit: And PLEASE no uniqueness! Let's stay consistent here.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 10:40:56 pm by durerus »
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