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Marc De Mesel

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Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« on: April 05, 2016, 05:29:26 pm »

Can the mods see this?

VanBreuk

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2016, 05:36:49 pm »

Nope. Karma votes are by default anonymous.

At one moment time ago we considered enabling a modification that would report them, potentially useful in case of abuse, and we did test it, but we realized that making the applauds/smites public would also defeat the whole purpose for it so we stayed in the default forum behavior.
 
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2016, 05:40:50 pm »

Nope. Karma votes are by default anonymous.

At one moment time ago we considered enabling a modification that would report them, potentially useful in case of abuse, and we did test it, but we realized that making the applauds/smites public would also defeat the whole purpose for it so we stayed in the default forum behavior.

Good decision VanBreuk, so even the mods can't see it, right?

Thanks! :)

VanBreuk

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2016, 05:57:32 pm »

so even the mods can't see it, right?

Correct. Not even the smites I received are registered anywhere, so I don't know who sent them (although I have to say I have a few guesses :) )
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yassin54

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2016, 06:13:52 pm »

Can the mods see this?
i promise, i never spank you my friend!!  :-*

Marc De Mesel

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2016, 06:17:14 pm »

Can the mods see this?
i promise, i never spank you my friend!!  :-*

I know you don't :D

Such positive spirit u r 8)

Tosch110

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2016, 06:45:03 pm »

Nope. Karma votes are by default anonymous.

At one moment time ago we considered enabling a modification that would report them, potentially useful in case of abuse, and we did test it, but we realized that making the applauds/smites public would also defeat the whole purpose for it so we stayed in the default forum behavior.

Good decision VanBreuk, so even the mods can't see it, right?

Thanks! :)

More interesting, why do you ask? :P

Marc De Mesel

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2016, 06:50:37 pm »

Nope. Karma votes are by default anonymous.

At one moment time ago we considered enabling a modification that would report them, potentially useful in case of abuse, and we did test it, but we realized that making the applauds/smites public would also defeat the whole purpose for it so we stayed in the default forum behavior.

Good decision VanBreuk, so even the mods can't see it, right?

Thanks! :)

More interesting, why do you ask? :P

 ;D coz if the mods can see it while the rest not, it's not a level playing field, right?  8)

Brangdon

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2016, 07:02:13 pm »

For me, more useful would be to know why the applauds or spanks happened. That is, knowing which posts attracted them. It would be nice if each post showed the number of applauds and spanks it had attracted for everyone to see, and if there was a way to list my posts where the counts were not zero. I think this would be useful than showing the totals for the post's poster, so you could save some space by moving that to the profile pages.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 07:06:49 pm by Brangdon »
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EvilDave

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2016, 09:14:12 pm »

I almost never spank anyone (at least, not on the forum  ;)  ), unless bitcoinpaul is asking for it.

I just randomly applauded Marc for no reason other than that he's Marc, and Brangdon got one because 169 is an annoying number.... ;D
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2016, 09:07:08 am »

I almost never spank anyone (at least, not on the forum  ;)  ), unless bitcoinpaul is asking for it.

I just randomly applauded Marc for no reason other than that he's Marc, and Brangdon got one because 169 is an annoying number.... ;D

Thanks Dave  ;D

devlux

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2016, 11:43:19 pm »

For me, more useful would be to know why the applauds or spanks happened. That is, knowing which posts attracted them. It would be nice if each post showed the number of applauds and spanks it had attracted for everyone to see, and if there was a way to list my posts where the counts were not zero. I think this would be useful than showing the totals for the post's poster, so you could save some space by moving that to the profile pages.

I was going to comment and just say I agree with this.  But something stuck in my craw about it and when I came back from lunch it hit me.
Almost no one uses this, if they did, then your score would be many multiples, not fractions of your posting total.
I think there is a valid reason for not using it and it's not visibility.

Here's how I see it. 

You get applauded or spanked when someone feels happy or offended by your excersize of free speech.
Unless they specifically call out and say "I applauded you or I spanked you", then really this is just a passive aggressive reward system that leeches off of the human need for herdwiring and runs the risk of causing people to feel marginalized.

When you get "spanked" it's a way for people you've offended to vent and lash out without telling you who they are or why they disagree. 
Whereas most applauds already come with "Hey that's a great idea!" or +1440 or whatever silliness we use to convey agreement.

If you're going to self censor over the opinions of someone who didn't have the guts to speak up and tell you that you offended them, then why bother to speak up in the first place.  Have your own opinion, don't worry about who they are or what they think, they didn't care enough to voice it, so why should you care as to what it might have been?

The system is nothing more than an adhominem anyways.  A way to attack or support the person, rather than their idea and that's just a sign of weak mindedness on their part.  If I disagree with you, it's not a reflection on my opinion of you as a person.  If I think the idea is stupid, it's not the person I'm talking about, it's the idea.

Attack the idea, tear it down and try to reconstruct something better and stronger.  Something that can stand on it's own merits.  I absolutely cringe anytime I see someone make an appeal to authority around here.  We have ideas and opinions, those ideas can be wrong or they can right or they can be somewhere in the middle. Most likely they will differ.  It's a spectrum and that's a good thing.  It's the idea and the opinion that matter, not the person behind them.  Once we begin to casually and passively consume ideas, we begin to settle into a monoculture, an echo chamber with a cult of personality and that's a dangerous thing.   

Ideas are like germs, they spread by exactly the same mechanisms. 
The only thing you can do is build your own immune system so you don't get stuck with someone's bad ones.

Democracy fails when we fail to have our own opinions or to speak those opinions even in the face of an overwhelming majority who thinks differently than we do.  Why do we care if someone else thinks we were wrong?  At least we said what we meant and started the discussions.  If the idea is well constructed then the reasonable people will develop similar opinions and eventually we'll make the majority, or we're stuck in a monoculture or cult of personality and well you can't rationally argue someone out of a position they didn't rationally get into in the first place.

I would even counterpoint this with a personal plea.

I pray that any time I say or do something that someone agrees or disagrees with, that they post in no uncertain terms where I'm wrong and voice support where I'm right. 

Respect the person, but feel free to rage against their ideas.  Unfortunately on further consideration, this karma system does the opposite.

Marc, wear those spankings like a badge of honor.  You took a beating there and I don't recall anyone saying that they were spanking you.  So just realize that those marks are from a bunch of people who felt like they wanted to reach out through the internet and touch you on the bum.  I say you tell them to keep their hands to themselves.  :)
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 11:47:59 pm by devlux »
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websioux

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2016, 08:14:41 am »

For me, more useful would be to know why the applauds or spanks happened. That is, knowing which posts attracted them. It would be nice if each post showed the number of applauds and spanks it had attracted for everyone to see, and if there was a way to list my posts where the counts were not zero. I think this would be useful than showing the totals for the post's poster, so you could save some space by moving that to the profile pages.

I pray that any time I say or do something that someone agrees or disagrees with, that they post in no uncertain terms where I'm wrong and voice support where I'm right. 

Respect the person, but feel free to rage against their ideas.  Unfortunately on further consideration, this karma system does the opposite.


That's why stats on posts that received applauds / spanks would be very useful, still with anonymity. I'm not sure if this should be best private or public.
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2016, 09:43:57 am »


Marc, wear those spankings like a badge of honor.  You took a beating there and I don't recall anyone saying that they were spanking you.  So just realize that those marks are from a bunch of people who felt like they wanted to reach out through the internet and touch you on the bum.  I say you tell them to keep their hands to themselves.  :)

Thanks devlux, past 2 years I got 5 spanks and 170 applauds or so, past 2 weeks I went from 5 to 50 spanks, and 210 applauds.

Ofcourse I have been very critical and I'm sure it's a dozen that spanked me in total, but probably the 80/20 rule applies here too and a few have hit me many times.


I liked the applaud/spank system and I was valuing it, for example when someone posted with lots of applauds and very few spanks, I knew it was a positive person and took him more serious.

On the other hand I've seen some great people being critical of certain other people, for example printshop calling out possible scammers on the asset exchange, get lots of spanks, eventhough he might not have all his warnings right, he did predict a lot of them and I value him.

I think it's good that people can vent their feelings on a box ball, and that's what it is.


"So you have enemies? Good, means you stood for something."
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 02:46:36 pm by Marc De Mesel »
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Brangdon

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2016, 01:38:54 pm »

If you're going to self censor over the opinions of someone who didn't have the guts to speak up and tell you that you offended them, then why bother to speak up in the first place.
Who said anything about self-censoring?

Quote
The system is nothing more than an adhominem anyways.  A way to attack or support the person, rather than their idea and that's just a sign of weak mindedness on their part.  If I disagree with you, it's not a reflection on my opinion of you as a person.  If I think the idea is stupid, it's not the person I'm talking about, it's the idea.
The current system is like that, because it shows scores against people, not posts. The change I proposed would be less ad hominem because the scores would be shown against posts; that is, ideas. The scores would say, "A lot of people liked/disliked this idea", rather than "A lot of people like/dislike this person".

I've used other forums that work as I suggest, and I do find the scores somewhat useful. If I see a stupid post, but I also see it has a lot of down-votes, then I don't much worry that the community is going in a bad direction. If a bad post has a lot of up-votes, then it might be worth a counter-post.

Of course for my own posts I'd rather get a reasoned rebuttal than a down-vote, but I know that not everyone is articulate in writing. And I'd rather see 50 up-votes than 50 posts all saying "+1440" because that would be dull.
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devlux

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2016, 10:06:29 pm »

If you're going to self censor over the opinions of someone who didn't have the guts to speak up and tell you that you offended them, then why bother to speak up in the first place.
Who said anything about self-censoring?

Quote
The system is nothing more than an adhominem anyways.  A way to attack or support the person, rather than their idea and that's just a sign of weak mindedness on their part.  If I disagree with you, it's not a reflection on my opinion of you as a person.  If I think the idea is stupid, it's not the person I'm talking about, it's the idea.
The current system is like that, because it shows scores against people, not posts. The change I proposed would be less ad hominem because the scores would be shown against posts; that is, ideas. The scores would say, "A lot of people liked/disliked this idea", rather than "A lot of people like/dislike this person".

I've used other forums that work as I suggest, and I do find the scores somewhat useful. If I see a stupid post, but I also see it has a lot of down-votes, then I don't much worry that the community is going in a bad direction. If a bad post has a lot of up-votes, then it might be worth a counter-post.

Of course for my own posts I'd rather get a reasoned rebuttal than a down-vote, but I know that not everyone is articulate in writing. And I'd rather see 50 up-votes than 50 posts all saying "+1440" because that would be dull.

Fair enough, I've always preferred Slashdot and Soylent style moderation myself.
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farl4bit

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2016, 05:12:13 pm »

One improvement for the system could be that not more than one spank is allowed each day instead of each hour for a user. This will prevent to much spanking when emotions are high. Is that possible VanBreuk?
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VanBreuk

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2016, 06:52:37 pm »

If I may, I will open a parenthesis and speak as non-admin, to say what I would personally do with the Karma system, and why.

(

I would disable it completely (with my apologies to bitcoinpaul) and replace it with a different system.

It is true that, generally speaking, it gives a quick outlook of how the community evaluates the overall contributions made by someone. And, also generally speaking, the anonimity of votes should make that overall score reliable. But it also encourages ego games, it is susceptible to abuse, and overall I think it has caused a considerable amount of conflicts, and has been more destructive than constructive.

Even if one is able to mostly leave ego at the door and not care much about Karma (which is arguably not a particularly apt name either) one will often wonder where did the last votes come from. What did I do good? What did I do bad? Why did I make someone upset? I agree with Brangdon that a gross ad hominem score is not the optimal way to go, at all. So I'd rather get rid of it.

)

But this is not an official proposal. I used parentheses because the impression is that most people like the feature. Anyways, following what Brangdon suggested, a full reputation system where the votes go to interventions (non anymously, and with the option to include a comment) is certainly an option. Where people can vote with reputation weight, which is received precisely thanks to useful or constructive contributions made before. Bad Reputation has little weight, and members with respected contributions have a bigger vote weight. Proof-of-Rep.

NxtForum will need to migrate to a new server soon, and that will be a good moment to apply changes before the new server goes live. That includes theme changes, software upgrades and feature modifications. Since the karma debate seems to be real, we'll add a simple poll soon to see where the community at large stands, and go by the results.

One improvement for the system could be that not more than one spank is allowed each day instead of each hour for a user. This will prevent to much spanking when emotions are high. Is that possible VanBreuk?

Yes, that would be fairly simple. We just need to set the wait time in hours before another karma vote can be placed on the same person.
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2016, 10:24:28 pm »

Very much agree Vanbreuk.

I must say it is quiet annoying all the spanks.


Got another 20 spanks the past 3 days.

I suspect just 1 person accounts for half of them, if not more.

Very demotivating.

farl4bit

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2016, 07:33:58 am »

One improvement for the system could be that not more than one spank is allowed each day instead of each hour for a user. This will prevent to much spanking when emotions are high. Is that possible VanBreuk?

Yes, that would be fairly simple. We just need to set the wait time in hours before another karma vote can be placed on the same person.


We can at least do that for now.
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wolffang

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2016, 07:35:44 am »

Very much agree Vanbreuk.

I must say it is quiet annoying all the spanks.


Got another 20 spanks the past 3 days.

I suspect just 1 person accounts for half of them, if not more.

Very demotivating.

You only like to give spanks? LOL  ;)
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VanBreuk

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2016, 08:33:14 am »

One improvement for the system could be that not more than one spank is allowed each day instead of each hour for a user. This will prevent to much spanking when emotions are high. Is that possible VanBreuk?

Yes, that would be fairly simple. We just need to set the wait time in hours before another karma vote can be placed on the same person.


We can at least do that for now.

Yes, I did implement it after your suggestion yesterday. It is already changed to one day of wait before you can karma up or down someone a second time.
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farl4bit

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2016, 08:44:17 am »

One improvement for the system could be that not more than one spank is allowed each day instead of each hour for a user. This will prevent to much spanking when emotions are high. Is that possible VanBreuk?

Yes, that would be fairly simple. We just need to set the wait time in hours before another karma vote can be placed on the same person.


Thank you, nice improvement.
We can at least do that for now.

Yes, I did implement it after your suggestion yesterday. It is already changed to one day of wait before you can karma up or down someone a second time.


Thank you, nice improvement.
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2016, 09:45:31 am »

One improvement for the system could be that not more than one spank is allowed each day instead of each hour for a user. This will prevent to much spanking when emotions are high. Is that possible VanBreuk?

So past few days, did you spank my ass, and if so, how many times per day?

farl4bit

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2016, 03:00:46 pm »

One improvement for the system could be that not more than one spank is allowed each day instead of each hour for a user. This will prevent to much spanking when emotions are high. Is that possible VanBreuk?

So past few days, did you spank my ass, and if so, how many times per day?

This conversation is starting to get dirty.  ;D
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2016, 04:25:27 pm »

So past few days, did you spank my ass, and if so, how many times per day?

This conversation is starting to get dirty.  ;D

I'd like to know, did you? How many times by estimation?

farl4bit

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2016, 06:43:23 pm »

This is private stuff Marc, but ok there goes my privacy... just to clear the air. :(

I gave you about 2-3 total the last weeks, because you were unrespectful to hard working community members. They don't deserve that. You can have your opinion, but please don't attack people personally.

When you shoot hard at members of the community don't be surprised people will spank you, that is how the system works. Even I got spanked more the last week. Was that you?
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2016, 08:11:52 pm »

This is private stuff Marc, but ok there goes my privacy... just to clear the air. :(

I gave you about 2-3 total the last weeks, because you were unrespectful to hard working community members. They don't deserve that. You can have your opinion, but please don't attack people personally.

When you shoot hard at members of the community don't be surprised people will spank you, that is how the system works. Even I got spanked more the last week. Was that you?

Yes I spanked you 10 times or so past weeks. I thought you had spanked me the most, was estimating you spanked me 20 times from the 70 I got, I'm sorry.

Peter2516

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2016, 08:15:26 pm »

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Marc De Mesel

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2016, 07:26:29 am »




Peter, not sure what that means but how many times did you spank me?

Peter2516

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2016, 11:00:04 am »

It's a screenshot from Monty Python & the Holy Grail.

Quote
DINGO: Wicked wicked Zoot ... she is a bad person and she must pay the penalty. And here in Castle Anthrax, we have but one punishment ... you must tie her down on a bed ... and spank her. Come!
GIRLS: A spanking! A spanking!
DINGO: You must spank her well and after you have spanked her you may deal with her as you like and then ... spank me.
AMAZING: And spank me!
STUNNER: And me.
LOVELY: And me.
DINGO: Yes, yes, you must give us all a good spanking!
GIRLS: A spanking. A spanking. There is going to be a spanking tonight!

And I don't keep score, but agree with what farl4bit said.
I think the whole karma thing is a bit silly really, I can't be bothered... "I spanked you because I thought you spanked me", come on.
It would be better to up/downvote individual posts, if you'd want any scoring at all. It could lead to selfcensoring.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 11:05:20 am by Peter2516 »
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2016, 11:04:13 am »

And I don't keep score, but agree with what farl4bit said.
I think the whole karma thing is a bit silly really, I can't be bothered. Would be better to up/downvote individual posts.

I care.

Just by estimation, how many spanks did you give me?

Peter2516

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2016, 11:06:36 am »

And I don't keep score, but agree with what farl4bit said.
I think the whole karma thing is a bit silly really, I can't be bothered. Would be better to up/downvote individual posts.

I care.

Just by estimation, how many spanks did you give me?

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Marc De Mesel

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2016, 11:47:36 am »

And I don't keep score, but agree with what farl4bit said.
I think the whole karma thing is a bit silly really, I can't be bothered. Would be better to up/downvote individual posts.

I care.

Just by estimation, how many spanks did you give me?




Since you don't want to answer, and you been going against me one of the hardest, I assume it was you that spanked me by far the most.

Peter2516

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2016, 11:52:48 am »

Assume all you want. I think you're putting way too much importance into this karma thing :)
Which is probably another reason to get rid of it with the next forum update. Some people can't handle it.
Maybe we should rename it to bitcoinpauls again?  :D
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farl4bit

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2016, 11:54:22 am »

Since you don't want to answer, and you been going against me one of the hardest, I assume it was you that spanked me by far the most.

Marc, come on. Please act like an adult.  :-X 


I will repeat myself:

When you shoot hard at members of the community don't be surprised people will spank you, that is how the system works.

Applauds and spanks are anonymous. Respect that please.
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Peter2516

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2016, 11:57:42 am »

Riker, it seems you are angry.

I'm not the most tactful person sometimes, and I can be in your face.

I'm sorry for that.

Not angry just disappointed. In my view without the work jean-luc and Bas put here for the last 2 years the fate of NXT would have been the same as the fate of 600 other coins which rose like meteors in early 2014 and faded away just as quickly. We need to work together not get into this blame game all the time.
We already have great technology and great people working on marketing and promotion. We also have great vision, but we need time to execute it.
All this public bashing of community leaders does not help, it completely distracts key people from promoting NXT.

I think it was Riker, in the kitchen with the candlestick.

And when you play the 'blame game' and 'bash community leaders', you shouldn't be suprised if you get some spanks.
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2016, 11:58:37 am »

Assume all you want. I think you're putting way too much importance into this karma thing :)

You think this is funny?

I really don't share your sense of humor.


Cryptocurrency is serious business, but yeah, you don't even agree with that when it comes from me.

I think you've treated me very poorly.

Not sure what else I can say.

Peter2516

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Re: Is it possible to see who spanks / applauds you?
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2016, 02:19:21 pm »

You think this is funny?
I think the karma system is silly and people shouldn't put too much into it.

Quote
I really don't share your sense of humor.
You break my heart.

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Cryptocurrency is serious business, but yeah, you don't even agree with that when it comes from me.
I agree cryptocurrency and blockchain tech and cryptoplatforms are serious business indeed, it's potentially disruptive. But it's not just about the monetary value of tokens. It's much more than that. If you want to get rich quick, try pump'n'dumps or invest in systems like Ripple. Has nothing to do with the ideals of crypto though.
By the way, you're not the only one who has invested a large part of his money into NXT and lost a lot on his investment. I think there are people that lost relatively more than you. You see them crying?

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I think you've treated me very poorly.
I think you're overreacting and being childish. And I could quote you:

I'm not the most tactful person sometimes, and I can be in your face.
I don't think highly of people that start pointing fingers at respected community members and core devs, at people that have put so much into this community for years now. Trying to blame people, fire developers... I'm not saying you're not allowed to, you can say what you want, you have every right to try to change the system of governance.

Quote
Not sure what else I can say.
Are you rage-quitting on Polo right now?
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