Nxt Forum

Nxt Discussion => -Old and Inactive Projects- => Nxt Projects => Lyth, the Nxt MMO => Topic started by: Damelon on April 14, 2014, 09:01:47 am

Title: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on April 14, 2014, 09:01:47 am
Hello people,

Do you remember this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=474535.0
If you do, you might have wondered why it went so very quiet...

Well, I can now officially announce that we have not been idle, but have been beavering away for the past month and a half on giving this project a solid foundation. :)

Now the time has come to tell you a *little* bit of what we have in store for you!

Lith

Premise:
The entities that built Lith had reached the limits of technological advance, to the point in which they had material wealth limited only by their imaginations. They quickly grew bored with material utopia, and decided that in their development, they had gone down the wrong path.
Their solution was to return to their roots as many different races, in the hope that one would reach supreme contentment. To aid in the design of these races, and to support the universe in which these races would inhabit, they created the artificial world of Lith.
Volunteers were transformed into new, next generation species on Lith. Once a species was deemed ready, it was sent out into the universe to begin evolving anew.


Setting:
Lith will start out in a setting that could be described as rural fantasy...

Gameplay:
Lith gameplay will for the most part be decided by a player driven economy. The game is designed to sustain "emergent" gameplay in which everyone can be caught by surprise at the direction the game will take. Players interact in an immersive sandbox, where they can create their own paths and realities. They can harvest natural resources, use skills to create goods, offer services, and use strengths and powers to influence other players and the world around. Violence and politics are never far behind, but the economy will be the most powerful force, affecting warlords, farmers, and everyone in between.

Trade:
Game resources will be freely tradable on an open market, allowing in demand items to find their natural prices, and letting players develop markets as needed. create trade networks, with all associated risks and chances for arbitrage. Lith will take full advantage of the possibilities that Nxt offers.

Creators:
Our current team consists of chanc3r (Ian), pandaisftw (Eric), jefdiesel (Jef), swartzfeger (Jay) and Damelon (Bas). We each bring our different qualities to the creation of Lith.

Game Engine:
We plan on creating the game using the Unity Engine (https://unity3d.com/)

Music/Score:
swartzfeger is working on the ingame music, and currently we are in negotiation with a full orchestra to play the score.
Here are some preliminary soundscapes:
Requiem for Emule (http://www.nxtcoins.nl/showcase/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Emule-Requiem.mp3)
"Character" (http://www.nxtcoins.nl/showcase/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Nxtopia-character.mp3)
"Resurrection" (http://www.nxtcoins.nl/showcase/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Nxtopia-resurrection.mp3)

The Next Steps
We are currently working out the last details to finance the game. We want to make the company that we will set up as safe for all involved as possible. There will most certainly be room for investors (in fact, if you want to invest, you are most welcome!), but we want to make the financing both safe and transparent. An IPO is nót in the works, as we are not satisfied this will be a safe way to go. If you are interested in funding us, please let us know, either via PM to me, or in this thread!

We are also looking to hire experienced game designers and artists. These will be paying jobs. The mechanics have been worked out by us (mainly by chanc3r and panda). If you know of people who are both interested and available, let us know. We are at this point in the "searching stage".

We hope you are as excited as we are about this project! Imagine! A game that takes full advantage of the possibilities that the Nxt ecosystem gives us, combined with a free player driven world that even wé cannot accurately predict!

We, in short, are very confident this is a game that wé would want to play. I will be updating you on the progress of the project frequently. We are currently working on a site and a newsletter. There will be real ways for you to get involved and even make money!

Thanks for your patience!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Ludom on April 14, 2014, 09:12:56 am
Shit, it's my dream game. With that, I'll play all the time and will take my time. I can't play and work for the promotion of NXT on the same time  ;D

It's a great project !
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: bitcoinpaul on April 14, 2014, 09:15:47 am
+1
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: martismartis on April 14, 2014, 09:28:16 am
Is it game about virtual Lithuania? ;D
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: KarlKarlsson on April 14, 2014, 09:35:11 am
Sounds amazing!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: BitcoinForumator on April 14, 2014, 09:38:58 am
Any screenshots of how it will/might look like? (besides the stock Unity Engine graphics)

Maybe there is some fanart ready or models or...something.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: schnidl on April 14, 2014, 09:41:41 am
wonderfull, would like to see screenshots too :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on April 14, 2014, 09:43:51 am
Any screenshots of how it will/might look like? (besides the stock Unity Engine graphics)

Not yet.
We are not even CLOSE to that stage yet.  :D

We now have a 60 page document outlining the theme, assets, ingame materials, internal logic and mechanics etc.
We are currently looking for two experienced developers to hire and work with chanc3r and pandaisftw.

We are not aiming to create a small game here :)

Edit: as soon as we have concept art, we will post them here, of course!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: BitcoinForumator on April 14, 2014, 09:46:06 am
Any screenshots of how it will/might look like? (besides the stock Unity Engine graphics)

Not yet.
We are not even CLOSE to that stage yet.  :D

We now have a 60 page document outlining the theme, assets, ingame materials, internal logic and mechanics etc.
We are currently looking for two experienced developers to hire and work with chanc3r and pandaisftw.

We are not aiming to create a small game here :)

Edit: as soon as we have concept art, we will post them here, of course!

Can't imagine the amount of work needed to pull of something like this. What about the approx. launch time? (sorry if I missed this info bit). Would it take you half a year, a year, 2 years?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on April 14, 2014, 09:51:06 am
Any screenshots of how it will/might look like? (besides the stock Unity Engine graphics)

Not yet.
We are not even CLOSE to that stage yet.  :D

We now have a 60 page document outlining the theme, assets, ingame materials, internal logic and mechanics etc.
We are currently looking for two experienced developers to hire and work with chanc3r and pandaisftw.

We are not aiming to create a small game here :)

Edit: as soon as we have concept art, we will post them here, of course!

Can't imagine the amount of work needed to pull of something like this. What about the approx. launch time? (sorry if I missed this info bit)

That info is not in there, because we have no idea yet.
We have a VERY thorough document (I have seen chanc3r and panda at work discussing it and it's both beautiful and scary!) and now we are going into production phase.

We will probably go with the normal alpha>beta>screaming in frustration>gold stages.

We are now looking to secure funding and employing the game devs. Artwork will already be worked on, although people are welcome to that team if they have experience, too. Alpha stage is easily a few months away. The game is designed to be as "open" as possible, and that is harder than linearity. :)

We will be "leaking" work in progress as we go.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: bitcoinpaul on April 14, 2014, 10:05:05 am
What about the approx. launch time?

Haha, the crypto community. Always impatient ;D

Take your time, guys!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on April 14, 2014, 10:59:50 am
Music/Score:
swartzfeger is working on the ingame music, and currently we are in negotiation with a full orchestra to play the score.
Here are some preliminary soundscapes:
Requiem for Emule (http://www.nxtcoins.nl/showcase/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Emule-Requiem.mp3)
"Character" (http://www.nxtcoins.nl/showcase/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Nxtopia-character.mp3)
"Resurrection" (http://www.nxtcoins.nl/showcase/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Nxtopia-resurrection.mp3)

In addition to the orchestra (this is news to Bas and team, because I haven't mentioned it yet in our chats), a close friend and former bandmate of mine is an instructor at Edinboro University (Pennsylvania). He's a world-class percussionist and I've worked with him in the past on various projects. In addition to helping me score, I'm also going to determine the feasibility of having his students/percussion ensemble contributing to Lith. He's very busy (actively involved in off-broadway productions and personal instruction), but given how long it will take us to hit an official 1.0, we should be able to collaborate on something.

Also, to touch upon game mechanics, which Damelon mentioned: Ian (chanc3r) and Eric (pandaisftw) have done work fantastic work. Jef is doing great work making sure the game has a personal and character-driven atmosphere (as opposed to a soulless, resource-gathering snoozefest). And Bas, of course, is the glue that holds it all together.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on April 14, 2014, 11:04:09 am
Is it game about virtual Lithuania? ;D

It's funny... Lith started in one of our chats one day when someone (was it Marek?) posted 3D renderings of his NXT 'monoliths' in the main thread over a BCT. We started riffing in-chat about monoliths as a possible story angle. So while there's no direct relation to Lithuania, there is a loose connection to Nxt. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on April 14, 2014, 11:15:11 am
Is it game about virtual Lithuania? ;D

It's funny... Lith started in one of our chats one day when someone (was it Marek?) posted 3D renderings of his NXT 'monoliths' in the main thread over a BCT. We started riffing in-chat about monoliths as a possible story angle. So while there's no direct relation to Lithuania, there is a loose connection to Nxt. :)

That was gvans, not marek3ball, although both work in 3D :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: martismartis on April 14, 2014, 11:15:21 am
Is it game about virtual Lithuania? ;D

It's funny... Lith started in one of our chats one day when someone (was it Marek?) posted 3D renderings of his NXT 'monoliths' in the main thread over a BCT. We started riffing in-chat about monoliths as a possible story angle. So while there's no direct relation to Lithuania, there is a loose connection to Nxt. :)

I don't see any problem, if it will be related to my home country  ;D
I feel alone with NXT, because I didn't see anybody here from Lithuania :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on April 14, 2014, 11:19:12 am
Just to be complete, I was reminded by a fairy that we of course already HAD some investors!

Here is a list of our first Angels:

41000 NXT donated.

5000 - jl777
1000 - swartzfeger (Transaction id: 12550164158045962834)
3000 - chanc3r (Transaction id: 5658009271669858297)
1000 - MyZhre (Transaction id: 8826881503135433086)
3000 - Damelon (Transaction id: 17094914052077797717)
1000 - DrearyUrbanite (Transaction id: 5539495976647418930)
1000 - brooklynbtc (Transaction id: 7928426557842646935)
0500 - rdanneskjoldr (Transaction id: 91193539943795488)
5000 - msin (Transaction id: 3011638676023709764)
0500 - EvilDave (Transaction id: 1103023256425459700)
2500 - LiQio (Transaction id: 17259695350230030848)
1000 - Pandaisftw (Transaction id: 16708576594121402630)
1000 - eb101 (Transaction id: 11083404370711498345)
xxxx - ChuckOne [will support once mixing/zerocoin is in place]
0500 - apenzi (Transaction id: 15260598453647834729)
5000 - mvag (Transaction id: 10050795682594553764)
10000 - Lawmaker (Transaction id: 11549104422599917111)


These first donations will go to setting up the site, getting the first artwork done and raising additional funds.

I am already receiving PMs for people who would like to invest. THANK YOU!
I will be mailing you back on how we want to proceed with the funding, but by all means, pledge if you want to :)
Good developers are expensive and we are committed to pay for what they do.
Of course, your investment is just that: an investment. We have made preliminary forecasts of profits and they look good.
All these documents will be shared with investors before they actually invest, of course.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Ludom on April 14, 2014, 11:24:07 am
I want to be in the investor list. I'm in !
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: TheCryptoWoman on April 14, 2014, 11:31:02 am
I want to be in the investor list. I'm in !

Me too :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on April 14, 2014, 12:11:43 pm
Is it game about virtual Lithuania? ;D

It's funny... Lith started in one of our chats one day when someone (was it Marek?) posted 3D renderings of his NXT 'monoliths' in the main thread over a BCT. We started riffing in-chat about monoliths as a possible story angle. So while there's no direct relation to Lithuania, there is a loose connection to Nxt. :)

I don't see any problem, if it will be related to my home country  ;D
I feel alone with NXT, because I didn't see anybody here from Lithuania :)

Maybe we can include Šakotis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Šakotis) somehow. :)

edit: my brush with Lithuania -- I met Darius Kasparaitis when he played for the Pittsburgh Penguins (I'm a hockey geek...)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: martismartis on April 14, 2014, 12:24:22 pm
Is it game about virtual Lithuania? ;D

It's funny... Lith started in one of our chats one day when someone (was it Marek?) posted 3D renderings of his NXT 'monoliths' in the main thread over a BCT. We started riffing in-chat about monoliths as a possible story angle. So while there's no direct relation to Lithuania, there is a loose connection to Nxt. :)

I don't see any problem, if it will be related to my home country  ;D
I feel alone with NXT, because I didn't see anybody here from Lithuania :)

Maybe we can include Šakotis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Šakotis) somehow. :)

edit: my brush with Lithuania -- I met Darius Kasparaitis when he played for the Pittsburgh Penguins (I'm a hockey geek...)

+1 :)
Yey, I can help with translations for the game :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: lucky88888 on April 14, 2014, 12:26:17 pm
awesome! can't wait!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Daedelus on April 14, 2014, 12:35:41 pm
On the basis of the guys involved, I'll go in for 5000 NXT pledge.

Let me know when you want it  ;D
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: jl777 on April 14, 2014, 02:13:53 pm
Just to be complete, I was reminded by a fairy that we of course already HAD some investors!

Here is a list of our first Angels:

41000 NXT donated.

5000 - jl777
1000 - swartzfeger (Transaction id: 12550164158045962834)
3000 - chanc3r (Transaction id: 5658009271669858297)
1000 - MyZhre (Transaction id: 8826881503135433086)
3000 - Damelon (Transaction id: 17094914052077797717)
1000 - DrearyUrbanite (Transaction id: 5539495976647418930)
1000 - brooklynbtc (Transaction id: 7928426557842646935)
0500 - rdanneskjoldr (Transaction id: 91193539943795488)
5000 - msin (Transaction id: 3011638676023709764)
0500 - EvilDave (Transaction id: 1103023256425459700)
2500 - LiQio (Transaction id: 17259695350230030848)
1000 - Pandaisftw (Transaction id: 16708576594121402630)
1000 - eb101 (Transaction id: 11083404370711498345)
xxxx - ChuckOne [will support once mixing/zerocoin is in place]
0500 - apenzi (Transaction id: 15260598453647834729)
5000 - mvag (Transaction id: 10050795682594553764)
10000 - Lawmaker (Transaction id: 11549104422599917111)


These first donations will go to setting up the site, getting the first artwork done and raising additional funds.

I am already receiving PMs for people who would like to invest. THANK YOU!
I will be mailing you back on how we want to proceed with the funding, but by all means, pledge if you want to :)
Good developers are expensive and we are committed to pay for what they do.
Of course, your investment is just that: an investment. We have made preliminary forecasts of profits and they look good.
All these documents will be shared with investors before they actually invest, of course.
The 5000 listed as from me was actually from the NXTcommunityfunds. I wouldnt want to get any shares from that.
However, I would personally like to invest 100,000 NXT, when and if it becomes possible

James
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on April 14, 2014, 02:32:50 pm
On the basis of the guys involved, I'll go in for 5000 NXT pledge.

Let me know when you want it  ;D

The 5000 listed as from me was actually from the NXTcommunityfunds. I wouldnt want to get any shares from that.
However, I would personally like to invest 100,000 NXT, when and if it becomes possible

James

I've added you both to the list :)
Thanks for all the great reactions, people.
It's truly awesome to be able to come out with this and see that you like the idea. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Ludom on April 14, 2014, 03:29:10 pm
2500 from me, but it could be more later
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: jungian on April 14, 2014, 04:27:49 pm
This is something I would invest in!

Even created the account here to say that :)

Something like this can be really big
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on April 14, 2014, 05:05:30 pm
This is something I would invest in!

Even created the account here to say that :)

Something like this can be really big

You are on our "list" :)
We will contact all of you when we have more details.

2500 from me, but it could be more later

The same goes for you, Ludom :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Conurtrol on April 14, 2014, 06:00:05 pm
This sounds awesome!
And "Requiem for Emule" cracked me up for real.




I'd like to invest too.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: xcn on April 14, 2014, 06:26:02 pm
I'd like to invest too!!!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: apenzl on April 14, 2014, 11:00:20 pm
Count me in.  :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: EvilDave on April 14, 2014, 11:18:30 pm
interested !

(I'm missing BitcoinTalk, tbh)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on April 15, 2014, 01:16:03 am
interested !

(I'm missing BitcoinTalk, tbh)

Same... there have been some bigger pieces of news I've missed due to the organized (to me, fractured) hierarchy of the forum. I miss the vibe of the thread as well.

But for things like Lith, I think they get a little more exposure. I suppose it all balances out and I'll get used to it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: pt on April 15, 2014, 02:16:07 am
Put me down as interested also!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: abctc on April 15, 2014, 07:25:44 am
Would like to invest.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: godt on April 15, 2014, 07:58:43 am
I am interested. How can i help ?
I have games site with unity 3d games(about 100 000 visitors/day)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on April 15, 2014, 08:08:24 am
I have added you all to the list :)

I am interested. How can i help ?
I have games site with unity 3d games(about 100 000 visitors/day)

Well now, this is interesting  :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: bitcoinpaul on April 15, 2014, 09:59:45 am
 :o
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Fatih87SK on April 15, 2014, 10:44:27 am
I have added you all to the list :)

I am interested. How can i help ?
I have games site with unity 3d games(about 100 000 visitors/day)

Well now, this is interesting  :D

Awesome!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: kodtycoon on April 15, 2014, 11:12:17 am
il pledge 4k but cant send it yet.. guna be a couple days.. havnt got access to my funds atm..

edit: this is the same game swartzfeger is working on isnt it?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on April 15, 2014, 11:35:22 am
il pledge 4k but cant send it yet.. guna be a couple days.. havnt got access to my funds atm..

edit: this is the same game swartzfeger is working on isnt it?

Don't send anything yet!
We are working out a good, legal and safe system to fund.

We will contact you all once we have it sussed. :)

Added you to the list.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Mistafreeze on April 15, 2014, 01:58:05 pm
I'd also like to invest.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on April 15, 2014, 03:03:53 pm
edit: this is the same game swartzfeger is working on isnt it?

Yes. :)

And for clarity's sake, after my initial post and the five of us were in contact, this hasn't been my game (at all, in any sense). It's been very much a collaborative effort from Day One.

All I did was run my mouth in a post to kick things off. :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Fatih87SK on April 15, 2014, 03:39:44 pm
I am interested. How can i help ?
I have games site with unity 3d games(about 100 000 visitors/day)

There will be another game that will need your help;

https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=602.0
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on April 15, 2014, 03:42:52 pm
I am interested. How can i help ?
I have games site with unity 3d games(about 100 000 visitors/day)

There will be another game that will need your help;

https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=602.0 (https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=602.0)

I'm skeptical and will leave it at that.

Besides, Lith is a full-time gig. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Megafont on April 16, 2014, 12:09:24 am
Hello guys.  This project was brought to my attention by global moderator Mistafreeze, who happens to be my brother in real life.


I see you are looking for a couple game developers to help out on this project, and it looks like an pretty interesting project!


I am mostly self-taught in game development, and am currently in early stages of creating my own game engine using lots of invaluable information I've learned from the book Game Coding Complete: 4th Edition.  I'm currently working in C#.  I believe Unity is C++ but that's alright as I worked in C++ before I ever started working in C# so I am pretty familiar with both languages.


As of late last year I am also a published author with a book about game development in C# using the SlimDX managed wrapper for DirectX.
http://www.packtpub.com/game-development-with-slimdx/book (http://www.packtpub.com/game-development-with-slimdx/book)




I must admit that I have never worked with the Unity engine before, and I don't know if that will be an issue or not.  I have been dabbling in game development for many years on my own though and messed with level editors for numerous games (such as Valve's Source Engine among others), and I've done plenty of reading on the subject of game programming as well.   I'm not an expert either, but you can never know everything, especially in computers.  But I enjoy learning new things.


Anyway, I'm just throwing my hat in and see what happens.   This sounds like a very interesting project! :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on April 16, 2014, 12:31:19 am
Hello guys.  This project was brought to my attention by global moderator Mistafreeze, who happens to be my brother in real life.

I see you are looking for a couple game developers to help out on this project, and it looks like an pretty interesting project!

I am mostly self-taught in game development, and am currently in early stages of creating my own game engine using lots of invaluable information I've learned from the book Game Coding Complete: 4th Edition.  I'm currently working in C#.  I believe Unity is C++ but that's alright as I worked in C++ before I ever started working in C# so I am pretty familiar with both languages.

As of late last year I am also a published author with a book about game development in C# using the SlimDX managed wrapper for DirectX.
http://www.packtpub.com/game-development-with-slimdx/book (http://www.packtpub.com/game-development-with-slimdx/book)

I must admit that I have never worked with the Unity engine before, and I don't know if that will be an issue or not.  I have been dabbling in game development for many years on my own though and messed with level editors for numerous games (such as Valve's Source Engine among others), and I've done plenty of reading on the subject of game programming as well.   I'm not an expert either, but you can never know everything, especially in computers.  But I enjoy learning new things.

Anyway, I'm just throwing my hat in and see what happens.   This sounds like a very interesting project! :)

Impressive experience and publishing credentials, Mega!

I have limited experience with Objective-C, some PHP and a smattering of Python, Java and a few others. Enough to pull off 'Hello, World!' without pulling out my hair. From what little I've seen of Unity, I think I'd have no problem working with Unity; like Apple's Xcode, it appears to do a lot of the heavy lifting, automagically.

Looks like you certainly have the chops for Unity. Damelon will contact you tomorrow (I think it's past midnight in his neck of the woods).

Btw, where are you located, Megafont? EU, States, elsewhere?

Thanks for the offer and your enthusiasm, it's definitely appreciated! :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Mistafreeze on April 16, 2014, 12:48:34 am
Megafont and I are both in Iowa, USA.

I figured since he's in the process of coding a game engine, he'd may be able to help on this project. I myself am an ASP.Net dev, but I'm more of a google coder than a true artist  :P
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Megafont on April 16, 2014, 01:15:28 am
Thanks! I look forward to hearing from him! 
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on April 17, 2014, 07:43:20 am
Is it game about virtual Lithuania? ;D

It's funny... Lith started in one of our chats one day when someone (was it Marek?) posted 3D renderings of his NXT 'monoliths' in the main thread over a BCT. We started riffing in-chat about monoliths as a possible story angle. So while there's no direct relation to Lithuania, there is a loose connection to Nxt. :)

I'm going to correct myself -- as I was strolling down memory lane (over at the old forum), I found this post on February 19 by Damelon regarding monoliths and our 'new game':

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=474535.msg5245312#msg5245312 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=474535.msg5245312#msg5245312)

So we have Damelon to thank. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on April 17, 2014, 11:16:58 am
Is it game about virtual Lithuania? ;D

It's funny... Lith started in one of our chats one day when someone (was it Marek?) posted 3D renderings of his NXT 'monoliths' in the main thread over a BCT. We started riffing in-chat about monoliths as a possible story angle. So while there's no direct relation to Lithuania, there is a loose connection to Nxt. :)

I'm going to correct myself -- as I was strolling down memory lane (over at the old forum), I found this post on February 19 by Damelon regarding monoliths and our 'new game':

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=474535.msg5245312#msg5245312 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=474535.msg5245312#msg5245312)

So we have Damelon to thank. :)

YAY, credit! :D

At this point, I'd like to thank all of the interested people so far.
We have a good list of people who would like to invest and we would like to ask you for patience :)
We are in for the long, long haul, so we are in preliminary stages.

At some point in the very near future (a week or so) our first website should be launched. This website will have a newsletter attached to it, so we can keep everyone, both Nxters and non-Nxters informed.

Investors will be contacted separately once we have our plan worked out.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: kodtycoon on April 17, 2014, 04:41:21 pm
nice one D! :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: shin on April 17, 2014, 04:49:50 pm
Very nice idea! Really looking forward to testing/playing it! :)

Quick questions:
1. Will it as cool as Hearthstone? 3D TCG is awesome! Please let it looks like that. Classic 2D TCGs are too ordinary! :D
2. How do you guys handle the 100000000 concurrent online players and go about the 32kb per block per minute limit!

Thanks!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on April 17, 2014, 05:27:36 pm
Very nice idea! Really looking forward to testing/playing it! :)

Quick questions:
1. Will it as cool as Hearthstone? 3D TCG is awesome! Please let it looks like that. Classic 2D TCGs are too ordinary! :D
2. How do you guys handle the 100000000 concurrent online players and go about the 32kb per block per minute limit!

Thanks!

The answer to both is: we don't know yet.

The first should be: yes, it will be cool, but that is a matter of taste ;)

The answer to the second really is don't know. This needs to be done by development and is too soon to answer, yet :)

Step by step!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: chanc3r on April 17, 2014, 05:32:25 pm
Very nice idea! Really looking forward to testing/playing it! :)

Quick questions:
1. Will it as cool as Hearthstone? 3D TCG is awesome! Please let it looks like that. Classic 2D TCGs are too ordinary! :D
2. How do you guys handle the 100000000 concurrent online players and go about the 32kb per block per minute limit!

Thanks!

If someone can bring 100M concurrent online players I'm sure we will find a way  ;D
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on April 17, 2014, 05:44:34 pm
Very nice idea! Really looking forward to testing/playing it! :)

Quick questions:
1. Will it as cool as Hearthstone? 3D TCG is awesome! Please let it looks like that. Classic 2D TCGs are too ordinary! :D
2. How do you guys handle the 100000000 concurrent online players and go about the 32kb per block per minute limit!

Thanks!

If someone can bring 100M concurrent online players I'm sure we will find a way  ;D

If chanc3r says it can be done, it can be done!  :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on April 17, 2014, 05:52:53 pm
Very nice idea! Really looking forward to testing/playing it! :)

Quick questions:
1. Will it as cool as Hearthstone? 3D TCG is awesome! Please let it looks like that. Classic 2D TCGs are too ordinary! :D
2. How do you guys handle the 100000000 concurrent online players and go about the 32kb per block per minute limit!

Thanks!

If someone can bring 100M concurrent online players I'm sure we will find a way  ;D


Yes, even at 10,000 concurrent I will be looking up phone numbers for real estate agents in Aruba. :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: TheUnity on April 17, 2014, 07:29:42 pm
Love the sound of this. I'd like to invest too
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on April 17, 2014, 09:06:40 pm
Thanks! I look forward to hearing from him!

Sorry I haven't contacted you yet :)
I will tomorrow or over the weekend!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: GoldDealer on April 17, 2014, 09:57:42 pm
Damn, this sounds very interesting. Can't imagine how it will looks like, but sounds like something big
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Megafont on April 17, 2014, 11:44:56 pm
No problem Damelon!  I'm sure you're plenty busy!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: ebby on April 18, 2014, 11:54:15 am
very interesting!

I'm looking to invest up to 200k NXT, paid in stages. Looking forward to hear from you guys.  8)

Greets,
eb
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on April 18, 2014, 08:20:24 pm
All new investors are listed :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on April 19, 2014, 08:05:25 am
very interesting!

I'm looking to invest up to 200k NXT, paid in stages. Looking forward to hear from you guys.  8)

Greets,
eb


Thanks ebby, your support is appreciated!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Jimmy2011 on April 20, 2014, 10:15:54 am

Count me in 10K Nxt.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: nCtrl on April 21, 2014, 03:51:42 am
I do not know if these kind of details have already been sorted out (I have not followed the discussion) but these are just my 2 cents: do not try to over reach. If you aim too high it can easily become a nightmare and by consequence you will lose the momentum that is driving you now. Half a game is as good as nothing. Much can be done with a "simple" concept. A game in the style of FTL seems to me a very reasonable objective.
Best of luck, I hope to hear more about this soon!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on April 21, 2014, 02:21:26 pm
I do not know if these kind of details have already been sorted out (I have not followed the discussion) but these are just my 2 cents: do not try to over reach. If you aim too high it can easily become a nightmare and by consequence you will lose the momentum that is driving you now. Half a game is as good as nothing. Much can be done with a "simple" concept. A game in the style of FTL seems to me a very reasonable objective.
Best of luck, I hope to hear more about this soon!

We're thinking "long term" :)

The game has the possibility to be quite complex, but I know what you mean in terms of Feature Creep.
I've seen what happened to a good concept like Magna Mundi by Paradox Interactive.
We've made good progress on the investment method over the last few days, but are still tweaking it.
Everyone who has contacted us so far (PM, mail or in this thread) is on our list.

Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on April 21, 2014, 11:10:02 pm
I do not know if these kind of details have already been sorted out (I have not followed the discussion) but these are just my 2 cents: do not try to over reach. If you aim too high it can easily become a nightmare and by consequence you will lose the momentum that is driving you now. Half a game is as good as nothing. Much can be done with a "simple" concept. A game in the style of FTL seems to me a very reasonable objective.
Best of luck, I hope to hear more about this soon!

First, thanks for the Magna Mundi reference, Bas... I used to be a huge EU/HoI player but quit playing some time ago. I hadn't heard of MM or it's problems.

Scope and over reach -- I really like the way CCP handles EVE. Captain's Quarters was released about 8 years after EVE's launch. A modular design that can be built upon definitely has appeal.

Also -- I freaked a little when I didn't see this thread in General Discussion. :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: mjgrae on April 21, 2014, 11:55:39 pm
I'm interested in pledging some funds as well -- very interested in the concept. Please let me know when you have worked out more of the funding details so I can decide if/how I should free up some capital.


Cheers.
-Grae
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Manowar on April 23, 2014, 11:25:09 am
I´m interested.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: rlh on April 23, 2014, 07:19:11 pm
All new investors are listed :)

Where are they listed?  Also, how will dividends/investor payments be paid?  I've noticed that Nxt has a couple of potential games in development and I'm interested in following and investing in both, but I have to do my research.  I know this project doesn't even have a proof-of-concept demo but please contact me when you get a chance.  I'd like to know a little more about the planned, financial outlook might be, before I commit any funding.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on April 23, 2014, 08:34:50 pm
All new investors are listed :)

Where are they listed?  Also, how will dividends/investor payments be paid?  I've noticed that Nxt has a couple of potential games in development and I'm interested in following and investing in both, but I have to do my research.  I know this project doesn't even have a proof-of-concept demo but please contact me when you get a chance.  I'd like to know a little more about the planned, financial outlook might be, before I commit any funding.

It this moment the "list" is an informal list with people who have expressed interest. So that would basically give it a status as a mailing list for now.

We have a document for ourselves at the moment where we have made a plan for 18 months with profit and losses, and how dividends are supposed to be done.

However, we are also still working out a legal structure, and how our investors would fit into that. Once we have this finished (and we are finally getting closer) thén we will invite investors to look at our documents and make their decisions, based on business plan, game documents and financial plan.

This is why instead of accepting investments, we are currently only listing people. For our larger investors, this is a real commitment, and we want to give out the information like we feel it should be done. Some may back out, others may become interested, but at least it will be open and fair and we all know what to expect. :)

We will keep you all posted!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Isildur23 on April 24, 2014, 07:54:06 pm
I'm interested in investing. Good luck!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: EvilDave on April 24, 2014, 08:06:16 pm
I'll be willing to add more NXT to the Lith pile, in addition to the amazingly generous 500 I've already pledged.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on April 25, 2014, 08:30:05 am
I'll be willing to add more NXT to the Lith pile, in addition to the amazingly generous 500 I've already pledged.

Look at you, throwing your crypto around. :D

We had a very exciting meeting yesterday. Progress is churning behind the scenes...
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: chanc3r on April 25, 2014, 09:25:29 am
I'll be willing to add more NXT to the Lith pile, in addition to the amazingly generous 500 I've already pledged.

Ed - Is there a 'K' after that 500 then  ;D
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: EvilDave on April 25, 2014, 10:48:17 am
I'll be willing to add more NXT to the Lith pile, in addition to the amazingly generous 500 I've already pledged.

Ed - Is there a 'K' after that 500 then  ;D
What can I say...I have issues with opening wallets.....my precioussess, mine!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: LiQio on April 30, 2014, 09:52:15 am
Just like EvilDave I would gladly boost my "angelic" 2500 NXT - 15k would be possible
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: oldnbold on April 30, 2014, 01:07:05 pm
Very interesting concept and the obvious care with which you're taking this forward inspires confidence - please put me on the investment mailing list. Thanks
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on April 30, 2014, 10:15:37 pm
Thank you for your support... due diligence is required to ensure confidence and (especially for team members in the USA) legality. Everything is being spelled out, down to the letter.

There's so much to share, the suspense is killing me. But this is the hard part; once the floodgates open, progress will be swift. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on May 01, 2014, 09:50:29 am
Thank you for your support... due diligence is required to ensure confidence and (especially for team members in the USA) legality. Everything is being spelled out, down to the letter.

There's so much to share, the suspense is killing me. But this is the hard part; once the floodgates open, progress will be swift. :)

Just a small update from me, too.

We are getting close to having it sorted out. We now just need to finish up the documents, so it's clear and understandable to all.

The collateral of it is, of course, that our model can be used by others, so it's not only a benefit to ús. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Daedelus on May 01, 2014, 11:26:33 am
It might not be relevant right now but could you give an indication if you plan to sell shares on the AE? Whether on launch day or soon/months after? Trying to get AE launch info all in one place  ;D ;D

That would be super  ;D Thanks

https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/asset-exchange-ipos-launch-day-listings!/new/#new
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: chanc3r on May 01, 2014, 01:02:41 pm
It might not be relevant right now but could you give an indication if you plan to sell shares on the AE? Whether on launch day or soon/months after? Trying to get AE launch info all in one place  ;D ;D

That would be super  ;D Thanks

https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/asset-exchange-ipos-launch-day-listings!/new/#new

Its under review.
After a discussion with the team this weekend we will let you know the current position on listing/not-listing.
If we do it won't be on launch day though.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Daedelus on May 01, 2014, 01:07:16 pm
Great!

I've moved you from 'confirmed no' to 'unconfirmed, either yes or no'  ;D
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on May 02, 2014, 08:38:14 pm
I've added all the names to the list.

Small update: we are nearing the time that we can share the docs with you.

We are now fine-tuning our calculations, finishing the game doc and prospectus and hope to present these in a week or two.

We have been looking for artists and have contacted quite a few and are finishing the qualifications needed for the game devs.

We're also finalising setting up the requirements of our company and need to register it.

It's all becoming real and it's an exciting time for us all. We had never thought this when we started out with Nxt, but the game is unlike anything we have seen yet (and we are avid gamers).

This is why we want to do it RIGHT, and doing it right takes time :)

We'll keep you posted!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Uniqueorn on May 03, 2014, 12:35:02 am
Since I was an original founding member and present in the first discussions about this game before I got too busy with making sure NXT didn't come to a grinding halt behind the scenes and the game project went underground without any notice: I hope I get a custom viking character in this game ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: KyLin on May 03, 2014, 07:58:08 am
This project is very great, I'm really looking forward to.
Wish the project success.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Breta on May 05, 2014, 09:58:34 am
Hi,
When will that be? I'm looking forward.   :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: CoinTropololis_JustaBit on May 05, 2014, 05:36:59 pm
Thank you for the update.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: bubble on May 20, 2014, 03:40:21 am
any new updates?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on May 20, 2014, 03:50:39 am
any new updates?

Damelon will have some things to share 'Soon.'

I'm painfully aware that not having anything posted for a week (or two, or three...) can be off-putting, but please know we've been working hard behind the scenes.

The good news -- once the flood gates open, there will be no shutting off the endless stream of Lith updates. :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on May 20, 2014, 09:27:57 am
Just to tide us over while we wait, there are lots of little things I'm working on that I can divulge.

Boring things like -- ok, this music/sound effect sounds *great* on my ATH-M50s, but they lose a lot of body and presence when listening through an iPhone's tinny speaker (or Droid, Galaxy, et al).

It's always a bummer knowing that things mixed on Genelecs or Yamaha NS10s (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep08/articles/yamahans10.htm) or (fill in the blank for mixing speakers) are going to sound lackluster at best on a smartphone or tablet.

I've been spending more time with tools like this: http://www.uaudio.com/store/special-processing/little-labs-voice-of-god.html (http://www.uaudio.com/store/special-processing/little-labs-voice-of-god.html)

(for those without UAD dsp, there's a hilariously-named (free!) native alternative called Bark of Dog: http://www.bozdigitallabs.com/product/bark-of-dog/ (http://www.bozdigitallabs.com/product/bark-of-dog/))

There are little tricks you can use to make bass frequencies have more 'heft' on smaller speakers, to give your ears/brain the impression the lower frequencies are there (even tho they aren't).

Conversely, a lot of high frequency stuff that normally has that gorgeous, airy sheen on quality speakers is harsh on laptop speakers and utterly shrill on a smartphone. So there has been a lot of thinking on my part... what frequencies are conveying the information we want to pass along, what frequencies are fatiguing over time. Too many high mids can sound tinny; cut too much and the audio can lose clarity and definition (same thing with high frequencies, the balance of piercing vs dullness). What can a small iPhone speaker produce faithfully, and how do we craft engaging audio around those limitations?

Lots of little detail stuff like that. In no way affects critical gameplay, but as an audio/music freak, I want Lith to sound as good as possible. And since Lith will be getting heavy play on devices with terrible, tiny, EVIL little speakers, I'm doing my level best to make sure the audio will make us forget we're playing on devices with terrible little speakers, but instead are playing a game inside of a very cool gamingverse called Lith. :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Fatih87SK on May 20, 2014, 09:38:09 am
Nice!

Thanks for the update. I also have the ATH-M50's  :P
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on May 20, 2014, 09:45:16 am
Nice!

Thanks for the update. I also have the ATH-M50's  :P


They're great. I track through them exclusively and will pretty much mix the bulk of Lith's work through them. I've owned much more expensive Sennheisers, but the M50s work and they're comfortable.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: ThomasVeil on May 24, 2014, 01:44:21 am
If you're looking for artists - I might be up for it. Kinda depends - i'm not very clear of what this really is about. But even otherwise, maybe I can help with some tips from experience. I've been artist on a couple tripleA games, lead artist for a concepting team. And now just finishing my own indie game. Some info and art is on my site (http://www.oxpal.com/).
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on May 24, 2014, 07:33:54 am
If you're looking for artists - I might be up for it. Kinda depends - i'm not very clear of what this really is about. But even otherwise, maybe I can help with some tips from experience. I've been artist on a couple tripleA games, lead artist for a concepting team. And now just finishing my own indie game. Some info and art is on my site (http://www.oxpal.com/).


Thomas, your work is exceptionally good. I'll be sending you a PM with specifics.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: valarmg on May 24, 2014, 11:02:43 am
If you are looking for artists, I've used this guy for book covers. http://www.pdportraits.co.uk/ I think he's an exceptional artist, and he works for a very reasonable price.

Additionally, this thread show the work of some amazing fantasy artists: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,164980.0.html (It's focused on book cover design, but I presume the same guys would work on games too.)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Uniqueorn on May 24, 2014, 01:20:40 pm
No custom viking :( ?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on May 24, 2014, 01:37:58 pm
No custom viking :( ?

There can be :)

Edit: one with just one horn on his helmet, perhaps?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Uniqueorn on May 24, 2014, 01:40:56 pm
No custom viking :( ?

There can be :)

Edit: one with just one horn on his helmet, perhaps?

haha yea, with some dead carcass covering the other one ^^
How far have you guys come yet ?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on May 24, 2014, 01:57:25 pm
We're far in planning stage.
Basically nearly ready for the fundraising, and in talks with devs and artists.

We don't say much out here, because we want to come out with something rock solid before asking for funds. :)

Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: TheCryptoWoman on May 24, 2014, 02:27:57 pm
If you're looking for artists - I might be up for it. Kinda depends - i'm not very clear of what this really is about. But even otherwise, maybe I can help with some tips from experience. I've been artist on a couple tripleA games, lead artist for a concepting team. And now just finishing my own indie game. Some info and art is on my site (http://www.oxpal.com/).

Really exceptional work Thomas! You've got talent!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: P2PGuy on May 26, 2014, 12:04:51 pm
This project has great potential. I would like to encourage the LITH team to consider posting yourselves as a NXT independent on the NXT Studios thread as well. https://nxtforum.org/nxt-studios/nxt-independents/ (https://nxtforum.org/nxt-studios/nxt-independents/)

Already we have just introduced one project back into the NXT Community, via NXT Studios to Ideenfrische.  The NXT Studios gateway is working, for the benefit of the community.

There is also a https://nxtforum.org/nxt-studios/bids-bounties-and-project-requests/ (https://nxtforum.org/nxt-studios/bids-bounties-and-project-requests/) where you could request creative input.
It seems that many will contact you directly, which is great.

Who knows, perhaps you would like to have the NXT Studios assist in making a marketing trailer, one sheet poster or any other creative service you can think of, at a later time in your project development? Perhaps even a release of your project title trailer under the NXT Studios flagship enterprise model....  NXT Studios presents LITH or In Association with NXT Studios

The offer is open ended and scalable.

 
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: ThomasVeil on May 28, 2014, 09:37:05 am
If you're looking for artists - I might be up for it. Kinda depends - i'm not very clear of what this really is about. But even otherwise, maybe I can help with some tips from experience. I've been artist on a couple tripleA games, lead artist for a concepting team. And now just finishing my own indie game. Some info and art is on my site (http://www.oxpal.com/).

Really exceptional work Thomas! You've got talent!

Uh, glad I looked into this thread again ;) Thanks, great that you like it.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Berzerk on May 28, 2014, 10:16:59 am
If you're looking for artists - I might be up for it. Kinda depends - i'm not very clear of what this really is about. But even otherwise, maybe I can help with some tips from experience. I've been artist on a couple tripleA games, lead artist for a concepting team. And now just finishing my own indie game. Some info and art is on my site (http://www.oxpal.com/).

Really exceptional work Thomas! You've got talent!

Uh, glad I looked into this thread again ;) Thanks, great that you like it.


I sent you a PM. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on May 28, 2014, 09:43:54 pm
Quick update for everyone since Damelon is busy today --

I sat in for a few minutes on a game doc polishing session this afternoon. Chanc3r and Panda worked on what we call game proofs; in short, these proofs ensure players can't cheat.

Also, I have something I will present to the group tomorrow. Damelon is aware of it, but it's a bit of a surprise for chancer, panda and jef. Nothing earth shaking, but very cool, and when Damelon is back he will present it to you all here.

Thanks for your continued interest and support. Progress is slow but steady, and will definitely accelerate once we nail down these last few details!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: apenzl on May 29, 2014, 02:50:48 am
(http://i.imgur.com/H4JcstU.gif)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: lopalcar on June 04, 2014, 01:05:38 pm
About the engine, wouldn't look much better using unreal engine?
Now I think it's opensource and they ask you for 5% of the game reveneu, so you can pay them in nxt  :P
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Uniqueorn on June 04, 2014, 10:44:09 pm
About the engine, wouldn't look much better using unreal engine?
Now I think it's opensource and they ask you for 5% of the game reveneu, so you can pay them in nxt  :P

Unreal is definitely a lot better, but also a lot harder. It's definitely much easier to get ahold of people in the Unity scene, but if Lith manages to get nice funding for devs, I would also suggest going with the Unreal Engine
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on June 04, 2014, 10:57:57 pm
About the engine, wouldn't look much better using unreal engine?
Now I think it's opensource and they ask you for 5% of the game reveneu, so you can pay them in nxt  :P

Unreal is definitely a lot better, but also a lot harder. It's definitely much easier to get ahold of people in the Unity scene, but if Lith manages to get nice funding for devs, I would also suggest going with the Unreal Engine

There are lots of factors, from cross-platform flexibility to compile times to costs to EULA terms that can come back and bite us. Issues that our core team will address with our devs, among others.

Stuff like -- on paper, a platform may look appealing, but may not be the best for talking to a JNI on the server back end (I'm just giving a hypothetical here).

So, yeah, lots of stuff to consider. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on June 04, 2014, 11:44:54 pm
About the engine, wouldn't look much better using unreal engine?
Now I think it's opensource and they ask you for 5% of the game reveneu, so you can pay them in nxt  :P

There are pros and cons. Unity has no royalties, is a breeze to do cross-platform stuff, and is flexible with javascript, c# and boo. UE4 has some caveats, and can be a bear with lighting, but it sounds like things have improved on the scripting side (ditching kismet, going with c++ etc).

There's no doubt -- none -- that UE4, given the resources, would trounce Unity in the visual department. Lighting, fracture meshes, etc. But for a small team? I think the visual disparity is narrowed greatly.

Besides, Lith doesn't need things like real-time lighting and whiz bang features due to the nature of the gameplay and target platforms. Lighting will be baked-in and running on smartphones, tablets, etc.

There's a big upside for small teams considering Unity. Heck, I know python and could lend a hand (via boo).

These are all hypotheticals; I'm talking out loud here about small teams considering Unity vs UE4 vs. CryEngine vs Valve's source. I know nothing official at this point.  8)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: lopalcar on June 05, 2014, 10:47:47 am
I think too that you can focus this project not as a project for a small dev team, we can promote this in some gaming forums or game developers forums for attract many new and more game-related people into this project. Can you see what game fans do moding games as GTA IV, Skyrim and go on? Give them an opportunity to create a MMO in which they can earn real money and I'm sure that the reaction will be HUGE  :)
Only suggestions, I think that the same as nxt have many developers, the FIRST and evolving MMO over nxt should do the same, have a big community of gamers more than only "cryptousers" hehe
I did some time ago some game and 3d software stuff only for fun, and as me, there are many people doing this and which willl be very happy makeing this kind of game :)
Of course, I think is necesary to have a base for allow all this "fan-community" work together, but once the base is done, you could start receiving 3d models, animations and much more from community members.
I personally would do it for free and only as a hobby, but you can reward most important contributors with some shares.
In my opinion, an open source game driven by a community would be the biggest game ever :) so once said that, wish you all the luck and hope to can contribute ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on June 05, 2014, 11:18:05 am
I think too that you can focus this project not as a project for a small dev team, we can promote this in some gaming forums or game developers forums for attract many new and more game-related people into this project. Can you see what game fans do moding games as GTA IV, Skyrim and go on? Give them an opportunity to create a MMO in which they can earn real money and I'm sure that the reaction will be HUGE  :)
Only suggestions, I think that the same as nxt have many developers, the FIRST and evolving MMO over nxt should do the same, have a big community of gamers more than only "cryptousers" hehe
I did some time ago some game and 3d software stuff only for fun, and as me, there are many people doing this and which willl be very happy makeing this kind of game :)
Of course, I think is necesary to have a base for allow all this "fan-community" work together, but once the base is done, you could start receiving 3d models, animations and much more from community members.
I personally would do it for free and only as a hobby, but you can reward most important contributors with some shares.
In my opinion, an open source game driven by a community would be the biggest game ever :) so once said that, wish you all the luck and hope to can contribute ;)

It might be interesting to see how this project has evolved :)

It all started very innocently in this reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/NXT/comments/1y9gg0/developers_what_if_you_eliminated_or_drastically/

As you can see swartzfeger and I casually expressed a love for Eve Online, and afterwards we got together in PM and that lead to this thread on BCT:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=474535.0

This lead to our first donations, after which we went "underground" and spent 4 months talking, planning and basically designing the blueprint of the game.

The whole thing that started this was this feeling, that I expressed here, and was shared by all five of us: "For a lot of people (like me) mining is also about FUN."

We are convinced that having FUN playing around with Nxt is a húge gateway to more people to get in. :)

And yes, the game is planned to be open to people to add their own stuff, in fact *it is built in!*

The whole world will be designed to be as open as possible. If someone wants to spend a day chopping wood: good for them. They might even make a profit (and in our game, game profits=Nxt profits!) off it.

We will not only be approaching the crypto communities, be sure of that. We plan to make this a mainstream (well, at least thoroughly Indie) game that will get in people who until now know nothing of Nxt or cryptos. :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Daedelus on June 05, 2014, 12:42:15 pm
Will something like Bannercoin (previously Laksmi) be integrated into the game?

I.e. the more time people spend playing, the more Nxt revenue for you that you might share to support the game economy?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on June 05, 2014, 01:03:32 pm
Will something like Bannercoin (previously Laksmi) be integrated into the game?

I.e. the more time people spend playing, the more Nxt revenue for you that you might share to support the game economy?

The game will have an in-game currency that will be directly tradeable against Nxt. :)

This means that there is a direct link from the virtual game world to the "real" world.

In theory, you could make a living chopping virtual wood, if you play your cards right :D
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: anon136 on June 12, 2014, 12:45:19 pm
I wouldnt even put combat into this thing if its just going to be tacked on as an afterthought. And if you are going to try to take the economy and world building and combat all seriously than they will all suffer under budget constraints. Forget combat entirely imo. An mmo where the focus is on economy and creativity would take the world by storm. We know creativity focused gameplay can be popular because one of the most popular games in the history of the world, minecraft, was played for just this reason. No one cares about the fighting in minecraft.

You need a reason to make people people want to participate in the economy. In most mmo's the motivation is the ability to kill things more easily. However i think there is a much better possible way to motivate people. That is your ability to effect the shared environment. For one, propertize everything or atleast almost everything. Allow there to be a free market in deeds to control over defined areas of 3 dimensional space. Some real estate will end up being more valuable than other real estate because early and more serious players will tend to clump up in the wide open space. One of the reasons to participate in the economy will be to be able to afford either a lot of real estate or real estate in the "city". Additionally, take that entrgy that you would have focused on combat, and instead allocate it towards building robust creation tools for building structures and environments with the resources that people have harvested and or bought on the market from other people who have harvested them.

One place you can potentially draw some inspiration from (particularly on the player created environment aspect) is everquest next so if you guys haven't played it sell a kidney if you have to inorder to get into that beta. I think that everquest suffered from an excess of planning however. They had measures like putting the plots distances apart so that players couldnt troll each other by building walls and stuff. This is a typical mindset for non liberarians. I think that you would find that if you prioritized pretty much every square inch, some people would troll, but the community would naturally evolve emergent solutions.

anyway i could keep going but ill stop here before i write you a novella.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: jefdiesel on June 12, 2014, 02:06:07 pm
I think that you would find that if you prioritized pretty much every square inch, some people would troll, but the community would naturally evolve emergent solutions.

trolls could cause property value to drop and general miasma to rise.  I'm taking a lot of influence on these ideas from Simcity. Remember those pollution map overlays? No one wants to live near the garbage dump. And all that time spent buying stupid trees, flower beds and statues seemed so useless, but if you were the deed holder, not just the god mode player with no interest in a single plot, you could spend the time and effort beautifying your neighborhood, and raising the property value.

Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Ludom on June 12, 2014, 02:09:43 pm
It's about game design. The focus should be done on the bulding/creation/interaction, not combat.

But the violence can be a part of the game. War or robbery, etc. But the dead should be "punished" in game, like in real life.

Defense and Justice is the origin of the society organisation. It could be a part of the economy and the politic.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: anon136 on June 12, 2014, 02:36:14 pm
I think that you would find that if you prioritized pretty much every square inch, some people would troll, but the community would naturally evolve emergent solutions.

trolls could cause property value to drop and general miasma to rise.  I'm taking a lot of influence on these ideas from Simcity. Remember those pollution map overlays? No one wants to live near the garbage dump. And all that time spent buying stupid trees, flower beds and statues seemed so useless, but if you were the deed holder, not just the god mode player with no interest in a single plot, you could spend the time and effort beautifying your neighborhood, and raising the property value.

My point is just that you dont need to "plan" things that people want anyway. Just to give one possible emergent solution, entrepreneurs would do things like buy up huge plots and then rent out the lots. Then if people starting making garbage dumps they would simply get evicted. Alternatively people could form corporations, or guilds, where the plots were owned by share holders and executives were voted on to administrate and/or resolve disputes. If the creators of this game try to plan this thing and make it "their vision" it will ultimately fail because the point of a game based on creativity is to allow it to reflect the players vision and you cant have it both ways. Of course its going to be a trade off. if you wanted to give the players ultimate control you would just throw a book about c++ at them. The point is to lean as far as possible towards creating an agnostic suite of tools with as little of your own vision imbued onto them and instead offering the flexibility to allow your players to imbue THEIR vision onto the tools.

central planning is the bane of creativity. avoid it like the plague when ever possible.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: pandaisftw on June 12, 2014, 02:38:51 pm
I wouldnt even put combat into this thing if its just going to be tacked on as an afterthought. And if you are going to try to take the economy and world building and combat all seriously than they will all suffer under budget constraints. Forget combat entirely imo. An mmo where the focus is on economy and creativity would take the world by storm. We know creativity focused gameplay can be popular because one of the most popular games in the history of the world, minecraft, was played for just this reason. No one cares about the fighting in minecraft.

You need a reason to make people people want to participate in the economy. In most mmo's the motivation is the ability to kill things more easily. However i think there is a much better possible way to motivate people. That is your ability to effect the shared environment. For one, propertize everything or atleast almost everything. Allow there to be a free market in deeds to control over defined areas of 3 dimensional space. Some real estate will end up being more valuable than other real estate because early and more serious players will tend to clump up in the wide open space. One of the reasons to participate in the economy will be to be able to afford either a lot of real estate or real estate in the "city". Additionally, take that entrgy that you would have focused on combat, and instead allocate it towards building robust creation tools for building structures and environments with the resources that people have harvested and or bought on the market from other people who have harvested them.

One place you can potentially draw some inspiration from (particularly on the player created environment aspect) is everquest next so if you guys haven't played it sell a kidney if you have to inorder to get into that beta. I think that everquest suffered from an excess of planning however. They had measures like putting the plots distances apart so that players couldnt troll each other by building walls and stuff. This is a typical mindset for non liberarians. I think that you would find that if you prioritized pretty much every square inch, some people would troll, but the community would naturally evolve emergent solutions.

anyway i could keep going but ill stop here before i write you a novella.

Owning things is definitely a planned feature. This is an "economic" game after all ;)

But I think we will have the resources to pull both the economy and the combat off - after all, combat stimulates the economy.

Pandaisftw
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: anon136 on June 12, 2014, 02:39:31 pm
It's about game design. The focus should be done on the bulding/creation/interaction, not combat.

But the violence can be a part of the game. War or robbery, etc. But the dead should be "punished" in game, like in real life.

Defense and Justice is the origin of the society organisation. It could be a part of the economy and the politic.

The point is that you either need to do it right or not do it at all. And doing it right, in addition to doing the emergent economy right, and the world building right would be ungodly expensive. I highly doubt the resources are available to do all of these things right. Meaning the realistic choice is probably between half assed combat or no combat. i would much much rather have the latter.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on June 12, 2014, 02:40:33 pm
The game is "emergent" and that is at the same time the biggest challenge, of course :)

I completely agree with your summary of "your ability to effect the shared environment."

That is a beautiful ánd bold aim for any game, and one I'd love to play.

It's of course always a balance: how much is fixed, how much cán emerge without unbalancing the game and how much is actually possible.

But as a tag line "Affect your environment" is a good one!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: anon136 on June 12, 2014, 02:41:39 pm
I wouldnt even put combat into this thing if its just going to be tacked on as an afterthought. And if you are going to try to take the economy and world building and combat all seriously than they will all suffer under budget constraints. Forget combat entirely imo. An mmo where the focus is on economy and creativity would take the world by storm. We know creativity focused gameplay can be popular because one of the most popular games in the history of the world, minecraft, was played for just this reason. No one cares about the fighting in minecraft.

You need a reason to make people people want to participate in the economy. In most mmo's the motivation is the ability to kill things more easily. However i think there is a much better possible way to motivate people. That is your ability to effect the shared environment. For one, propertize everything or atleast almost everything. Allow there to be a free market in deeds to control over defined areas of 3 dimensional space. Some real estate will end up being more valuable than other real estate because early and more serious players will tend to clump up in the wide open space. One of the reasons to participate in the economy will be to be able to afford either a lot of real estate or real estate in the "city". Additionally, take that entrgy that you would have focused on combat, and instead allocate it towards building robust creation tools for building structures and environments with the resources that people have harvested and or bought on the market from other people who have harvested them.

One place you can potentially draw some inspiration from (particularly on the player created environment aspect) is everquest next so if you guys haven't played it sell a kidney if you have to inorder to get into that beta. I think that everquest suffered from an excess of planning however. They had measures like putting the plots distances apart so that players couldnt troll each other by building walls and stuff. This is a typical mindset for non liberarians. I think that you would find that if you prioritized pretty much every square inch, some people would troll, but the community would naturally evolve emergent solutions.

anyway i could keep going but ill stop here before i write you a novella.

Owning things is definitely a planned feature. This is an "economic" game after all ;)

But I think we will have the resources to pull both the economy and the combat off - after all, combat stimulates the economy.

Pandaisftw

I didn't realistically think my comment would have any effect. Well good luck either way. I supremely doubt it, but it would be awesome if i were wrong.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: anon136 on June 12, 2014, 02:46:44 pm
The game is "emergent" and that is at the same time the biggest challenge, of course :)

I completely agree with your summary of "your ability to effect the shared environment."

That is a beautiful ánd bold aim for any game, and one I'd love to play.

It's of course always a balance: how much is fixed, how much cán emerge without unbalancing the game and how much is actually possible.

But as a tag line "Affect your environment" is a good one!

I really have always wanted to see something like minecraft be built by people who understand real economics and libertarianism. Someone who understands the power of emergence, decentralized order, markets and property rights. MMO minecraft with an understanding of these concepts would lead to the emergence of a virtual world amazing beyond anything that any individual could imagine. This game that you are describing could potentially possibly get close to this so that has me pretty excited. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: anon136 on June 12, 2014, 02:50:23 pm
Oh the other thing to remember is OUTSOURCE AS MUCH OF THE WORK AS POSSIBLE. I dont mean to china, i mean to your players. It will cut back on the cost of development and so allow you to fine tune the tools that you do build. Focus on building a suite of flexible tools and let your players build the actual world its self out of those tools. By doing this it will make it actually possable to build something very much akin to a tripple a title on the budget of an indi dev team. The more you can focus your resources on the tools themselves the more amazing the things will be that are built out of them.

*edit* sorry for being so preachy. i spend a lot of time thinking about video games and whats wrong with them and how they should be done differently so im sort of passionate about the subject.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on June 12, 2014, 02:51:26 pm
The game is "emergent" and that is at the same time the biggest challenge, of course :)

I completely agree with your summary of "your ability to effect the shared environment."

That is a beautiful ánd bold aim for any game, and one I'd love to play.

It's of course always a balance: how much is fixed, how much cán emerge without unbalancing the game and how much is actually possible.

But as a tag line "Affect your environment" is a good one!

I really have always wanted to see something like minecraft be built by people who understand real economics and libertarianism. Someone who understands the power of emergence, decentralized order, markets and property rights. MMO minecraft with an understanding of these concepts would lead to the emergence of a virtual world amazing beyond anything that any individual could imagine. This game that you are describing could potentially possibly get close to this so that has me pretty excited. :)

It might excite you that my two biggest examples for a 'good' game that I brought to the table were Eve Online (where there is NO protection for players, up to the point where corporate thefts are allowed, and people form protective conglomerates on their own) and Virtonomics, a little known Russian browser game that runs a complete virtual economy.

I would *love* for us to see emerging towns, flourishing centers of trade, then a few months later to see a real economic depression with people moving etc etc.

How much of that is possible is something we will find out, but the "openness" of it all is what attracts me. The main point will be how to actually gíve players the correct building blocks that are generic enough not to hamper their creativity and to stay out as much as possible.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: jefdiesel on June 12, 2014, 03:26:18 pm
Hey anon

 I think the battle actions are maybe not what you are picturing, they probably are not cut scenes to pvp battles and special moves, rather more likely to be fights with economic consequences.
Steal from a merchant, and you may find yourself with a reputation as a thief and your name spread across local merchant guilds, causing the prices you pay to increase due to risk.
Merchants could hire security guards from among the other players providing jobs for players willing to risk combat.
Combat applies an external check and balance to making money.
If you have something valuable you will have to protect it or leverage it in a way to protect itself.


Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: jefdiesel on June 12, 2014, 03:33:09 pm
Oh the other thing to remember is OUTSOURCE AS MUCH OF THE WORK AS POSSIBLE. I dont mean to china, i mean to your players. It will cut back on the cost of development and so allow you to fine tune the tools that you do build. Focus on building a suite of flexible tools and let your players build the actual world its self out of those tools. By doing this it will make it actually possable to build something very much akin to a tripple a title on the budget of an indi dev team. The more you can focus your resources on the tools themselves the more amazing the things will be that are built out of them.

*edit* sorry for being so preachy. i spend a lot of time thinking about video games and whats wrong with them and how they should be done differently so im sort of passionate about the subject.
This is a great idea. Since the plan is an open market engine like unity, I imagine it's easy to "add" user created assets. We may need to approve these, and the in game crafting requirements for a castle won't change, but if a talented user wants to submit an image asset there's no reason they couldn't recieve a payout from future crafting fees of the item.

This could really open some interesting opportunities for artists and players.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: chanc3r on June 12, 2014, 03:53:19 pm

Owning things is definitely a planned feature. This is an "economic" game after all ;)

But I think we will have the resources to pull both the economy and the combat off - after all, combat stimulates the economy.

Pandaisftw

I didn't realistically think my comment would have any effect. Well good luck either way. I supremely doubt it, but it would be awesome if i were wrong.
Anon - on the contrary keep it coming...

This game is not focussed on being a first person slasher... far from it.
There will be lost of activities, sure there will be an option and a place for combat
If we decide to do real-time first person combat then we need to do it well...
The game will grow and develop in scope, scale and features over time (with a 25% reinvestment profile this should be possible)
We will prioritise with investor and player feedback the features we plan to implement and we will implement them when we can be sure of doing them well.

hope this makes sense.
Ian
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: valarmg on June 12, 2014, 04:40:11 pm
I'm not a gamer, but this game is sounding more and more interesting.

How does the game make profits? Do people have to buy real estate to be able to build shops? Stuff like that?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on June 12, 2014, 04:47:33 pm
I'm not a gamer, but this game is sounding more and more interesting.

How does the game make profits? Do people have to buy real estate to be able to build shops? Stuff like that?

For this, I'll quote directly from our Issuance document, that will be released on Saturday. It's much better than I could explain by paraphrasing :)

Quote
Lith’s financial model is based on making money by fees for actions. Every action in the game world will have a small fee attached to it. By calculating the amount of fees, based on the number of players we can reasonably predict at which point we will reach a breakeven point.

All of our revenue will be acquired through micro-fees in-game. These fees will be denominated in Lith, the in-game currency.

Actions such as crafting an item, buying land, resurrection, starting a quest will have an extremely small fee. Other actions such as research in Lith will also charge fees. We anticipate players will willingly pay these micro-fees because they stand to increase their personal profits by utilizing these in-game services.

The game will also rely heavily on players trading items with each other to acquire the things that they need, there will be a small fee for each of these trades retained by the game. In return there will be no ‘in-game’ shop where people can turn up with unlimited funds and buy pre-made superweapons. The only items available in the game other than the items crafted through the hard work of the players characters will be raw resources.

We estimate that we can run the game with this revenue, pay for maintenance and run at a profit.
A preliminary document outlining our forecasts will be available for investors to see.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Ludom on June 12, 2014, 05:00:21 pm
I'm not a gamer, but this game is sounding more and more interesting.

How does the game make profits? Do people have to buy real estate to be able to build shops? Stuff like that?

I see that like fees on Nxt. Nxt utilisation isn't free, you have to pay: 1 message = 1NXT, 1 transfer = 1 NXT, 1 Asset creation = 1000 NXT.

But in Lith, the fee is very very low (like NXT in the future). I'm sure, you can play without restriction for 10$ as hardcore gamer, 1$ for a casual gamer. It's not so much for a good game.
I can personally spend 100$ (Game and DLC) for a good game (like Europa Universalis). It's hours of pleaser.

I like the open world in creation and possibilities. It could be open for every ideas and "enterprise".

"Plaisir & Valeur d'histoire" (my own business) is interested to invest in the game. Why not, to hire some creative gamers and make animation on Lith.
I don't know exactly how I will organise that but I'm really interested to make a real business in Lith.
A gamer team, but not like the actual teams in Video Games sport, based on reflex and optimisation skills but on creativity, psychology and entertainment skills.

I have the skills for that and I make it if it is possible to build a business plan with that.

Ludom
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: valarmg on June 12, 2014, 05:18:19 pm
I'm not a gamer, but this game is sounding more and more interesting.

How does the game make profits? Do people have to buy real estate to be able to build shops? Stuff like that?

For this, I'll quote directly from our Issuance document, that will be released on Saturday. It's much better than I could explain by paraphrasing :)

Quote
Lith’s financial model is based on making money by fees for actions. Every action in the game world will have a small fee attached to it. By calculating the amount of fees, based on the number of players we can reasonably predict at which point we will reach a breakeven point.

All of our revenue will be acquired through micro-fees in-game. These fees will be denominated in Lith, the in-game currency.

Actions such as crafting an item, buying land, resurrection, starting a quest will have an extremely small fee. Other actions such as research in Lith will also charge fees. We anticipate players will willingly pay these micro-fees because they stand to increase their personal profits by utilizing these in-game services.

The game will also rely heavily on players trading items with each other to acquire the things that they need, there will be a small fee for each of these trades retained by the game. In return there will be no ‘in-game’ shop where people can turn up with unlimited funds and buy pre-made superweapons. The only items available in the game other than the items crafted through the hard work of the players characters will be raw resources.

We estimate that we can run the game with this revenue, pay for maintenance and run at a profit.
A preliminary document outlining our forecasts will be available for investors to see.

So does that mean that people will need to pay some initial and continual money to play the game? I can understand taking a percent of all trades etc., and charging for some high-value actions, but it seems that if people have to pay money to do basic exploring, then you will limit your initial base of players.


Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on June 12, 2014, 05:34:39 pm
So does that mean that people will need to pay some initial and continual money to play the game? I can understand taking a percent of all trades etc., and charging for some high-value actions, but it seems that if people have to pay money to do basic exploring, then you will limit your initial base of players.

Not áll actions are paid! Walking doesn't cost, fighting doesn't, but hiring a building, crafting etc. do.
The fees are very small, and Lith itself will probably cost a fraction of Nxt.
The idea is to get mány players to generate lóts of minimal fees.

The aggregate income will be big, the costs to the individual should be very, very low.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: valarmg on June 12, 2014, 05:59:01 pm

Not áll actions are paid! Walking doesn't cost, fighting doesn't, but hiring a building, crafting etc. do.
The fees are very small, and Lith itself will probably cost a fraction of Nxt.
The idea is to get mány players to generate lóts of minimal fees.

The aggregate income will be big, the costs to the individual should be very, very low.

Sounds good. My only comment is to make sure there's a reasonable amount of gameplay that can be done for free. People love free. Offer someone something free, and something else twice as good for 10cent--10 to 1, people will choose the free thing (okay, just making up figures here to go with my hypothetical). 10cent, 5 cent, the actual figure often doesn't matter. It's wired into human psychology, I believe. Lith needs it's freeloaders and its hobos too. Just my (free) 2 cent.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: rlh on June 12, 2014, 06:08:39 pm

Not áll actions are paid! Walking doesn't cost, fighting doesn't, but hiring a building, crafting etc. do.
The fees are very small, and Lith itself will probably cost a fraction of Nxt.
The idea is to get mány players to generate lóts of minimal fees.

The aggregate income will be big, the costs to the individual should be very, very low.

Sounds good. My only comment is to make sure there's a reasonable amount of gameplay that can be done for free. People love free. Offer someone something free, and something else twice as good for 10cent--10 to 1, people will choose the free thing (okay, just making up figures here to go with my hypothetical). 10cent, 5 cent, the actual figure often doesn't matter. It's wired into human psychology, I believe. Lith needs it's freeloaders and its hobo too. Just my (free) 2 cent.

I'll be honest, I play a lot of freemium games on my iPhone.  Usually I find a new one, play it for 3-6 months and then I drop it.  I never spend a cent... until about my last week of play.  I feel so guilty about playing for so long and not supporting the company if they made a free game.  By then, I'm usually more than willing to drop $5-10 to say "thank you".

I refused to do that with Guardian Cross, though.  Fun game but Squaresoft can't charge a reasonable price for their mobile games, even if it would save the company.  Those jokers are greedy.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on June 12, 2014, 06:12:21 pm
By the way, I want to make clear that there will be no in-game sales of items that affect gameplay.

Everyone in the team hates games that give unfair advantages to the biggest wallet. For me, it really ruins games.

Yes, fees will be as low as possible. Again, the idea is to attract more people for lower fees, so in the aggregate income is larger. :)

This is one of the reasons that we cán present the model of income, but not *completely* finished numbers.

Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: forkedchain on June 12, 2014, 06:31:33 pm
NOTE FROM BOARD ADMIN forkedchain:

There has been a report from a board user that a user associated with a gaming dev group (not necessarily the one this thread is about) on this forum has offered to pay in return for disparaging comments towards the other gaming dev group.

The board's position is that this is disgusting behavior.  All users, please keep this in mind if you happen to come across any negative publicity here, that it may have been paid for.

This message has been posted to both gaming dev threads.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: forkedchain on June 12, 2014, 08:16:11 pm
Im glad you stepped up, though posting in the other thread...  Well anyway tt might be good for lith for you clear things up here.

I know everyone else doesnt understand, but the board has no place speaking for you, so Im truly glad you stepped up and cleared things up from a 1st person perspective.

Thank you.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: EvilDave on June 12, 2014, 08:20:41 pm
@Noassh:  respect your honesty , mate.
have a +1....
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: farl4bit on June 12, 2014, 09:36:43 pm
I am really looking forward for this game. I am very curious about the graphic interface!  :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: adsactly on June 13, 2014, 12:01:53 am
I Will be on the Investor List when I gather enough NXT
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: pandaisftw on June 13, 2014, 02:46:54 am
I wouldnt even put combat into this thing if its just going to be tacked on as an afterthought. And if you are going to try to take the economy and world building and combat all seriously than they will all suffer under budget constraints. Forget combat entirely imo. An mmo where the focus is on economy and creativity would take the world by storm. We know creativity focused gameplay can be popular because one of the most popular games in the history of the world, minecraft, was played for just this reason. No one cares about the fighting in minecraft.

You need a reason to make people people want to participate in the economy. In most mmo's the motivation is the ability to kill things more easily. However i think there is a much better possible way to motivate people. That is your ability to effect the shared environment. For one, propertize everything or atleast almost everything. Allow there to be a free market in deeds to control over defined areas of 3 dimensional space. Some real estate will end up being more valuable than other real estate because early and more serious players will tend to clump up in the wide open space. One of the reasons to participate in the economy will be to be able to afford either a lot of real estate or real estate in the "city". Additionally, take that entrgy that you would have focused on combat, and instead allocate it towards building robust creation tools for building structures and environments with the resources that people have harvested and or bought on the market from other people who have harvested them.

One place you can potentially draw some inspiration from (particularly on the player created environment aspect) is everquest next so if you guys haven't played it sell a kidney if you have to inorder to get into that beta. I think that everquest suffered from an excess of planning however. They had measures like putting the plots distances apart so that players couldnt troll each other by building walls and stuff. This is a typical mindset for non liberarians. I think that you would find that if you prioritized pretty much every square inch, some people would troll, but the community would naturally evolve emergent solutions.

anyway i could keep going but ill stop here before i write you a novella.

Owning things is definitely a planned feature. This is an "economic" game after all ;)

But I think we will have the resources to pull both the economy and the combat off - after all, combat stimulates the economy.

Pandaisftw

I didn't realistically think my comment would have any effect. Well good luck either way. I supremely doubt it, but it would be awesome if i were wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I'm the last person that will tolerate terrible combat, so you can be sure we wont half-ass it ;) We have some pretty amazing devs on our team, so while it will definitely be a challenge, I am confident it will be done well. As Jef and Ian said earlier, combat isn't going to be on Dark Souls 2 level. The main focus of all combat is economic gain - in a larger scope than any other game out there. Players may raid other player's trade routes, which will cause those players to hire player guards to defend those trade routes. Rich Warlords may hire player mercenaries to pillage another faction's player-built town. Players and factions will fight over scarce resources. And so on.

Resources gathered in game can be made into items, which can be sold to other players for Lith. Since Lith will be directly exchangeable for NXT, you can see there will be a real incentive to make items that are high in demand. There will be huge incentive to attack other faction's mines and factories, and there will be huge incentive to defend these key structures.

In summary, I feel that combat will be extremely important in the overall scope of the game. The doc we release soon will explain these interactions in more detail.

Pandaisftw
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: anon136 on June 13, 2014, 03:11:00 am
I wouldnt even put combat into this thing if its just going to be tacked on as an afterthought. And if you are going to try to take the economy and world building and combat all seriously than they will all suffer under budget constraints. Forget combat entirely imo. An mmo where the focus is on economy and creativity would take the world by storm. We know creativity focused gameplay can be popular because one of the most popular games in the history of the world, minecraft, was played for just this reason. No one cares about the fighting in minecraft.

You need a reason to make people people want to participate in the economy. In most mmo's the motivation is the ability to kill things more easily. However i think there is a much better possible way to motivate people. That is your ability to effect the shared environment. For one, propertize everything or atleast almost everything. Allow there to be a free market in deeds to control over defined areas of 3 dimensional space. Some real estate will end up being more valuable than other real estate because early and more serious players will tend to clump up in the wide open space. One of the reasons to participate in the economy will be to be able to afford either a lot of real estate or real estate in the "city". Additionally, take that entrgy that you would have focused on combat, and instead allocate it towards building robust creation tools for building structures and environments with the resources that people have harvested and or bought on the market from other people who have harvested them.

One place you can potentially draw some inspiration from (particularly on the player created environment aspect) is everquest next so if you guys haven't played it sell a kidney if you have to inorder to get into that beta. I think that everquest suffered from an excess of planning however. They had measures like putting the plots distances apart so that players couldnt troll each other by building walls and stuff. This is a typical mindset for non liberarians. I think that you would find that if you prioritized pretty much every square inch, some people would troll, but the community would naturally evolve emergent solutions.

anyway i could keep going but ill stop here before i write you a novella.

Owning things is definitely a planned feature. This is an "economic" game after all ;)

But I think we will have the resources to pull both the economy and the combat off - after all, combat stimulates the economy.

Pandaisftw

I didn't realistically think my comment would have any effect. Well good luck either way. I supremely doubt it, but it would be awesome if i were wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I'm the last person that will tolerate terrible combat, so you can be sure we wont half-ass it ;) We have some pretty amazing devs on our team, so while it will definitely be a challenge, I am confident it will be done well. As Jef and Ian said earlier, combat isn't going to be on Dark Souls 2 level. The main focus of all combat is economic gain - in a larger scope than any other game out there. Players may raid other player's trade routes, which will cause those players to hire player guards to defend those trade routes. Rich Warlords may hire player mercenaries to pillage another faction's player-built town. Players and factions will fight over scarce resources. And so on.

Resources gathered in game can be made into items, which can be sold to other players for Lith. Since Lith will be directly exchangeable for NXT, you can see there will be a real incentive to make items that are high in demand. There will be huge incentive to attack other faction's mines and factories, and there will be huge incentive to defend these key structures.

In summary, I feel that combat will be extremely important in the overall scope of the game. The doc we release soon will explain these interactions in more detail.

Pandaisftw

Let me see if i can explain myself better. Even if the combat is indeed good, all actions have opportunity costs. Designing a solid combat system, even if you have talented the devs, and even if you have no budget constraint and even if you have zen like dedication from the devs, represents time spend designing combat that could have been used to improve the other aspects of the game instead. It is a fact that if you spend resources developing a combat system, the other aspects of the game will necessarily not be as developed as they could have been otherwise. Maybe the benefits of this choice will outweigh the costs of the lost opportunity of improving other aspects of the game, my point is just to say, please think really really really hard about whether or not this is the case. I ask you to think really really really hard because i strongly suspect that it isn't. Of course i could definitely be wrong.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on June 13, 2014, 08:22:10 am
Let me see if i can explain myself better. Even if the combat is indeed good, all actions have opportunity costs. Designing a solid combat system, even if you have talented the devs, and even if you have no budget constraint and even if you have zen like dedication from the devs, represents time spend designing combat that could have been used to improve the other aspects of the game instead. It is a fact that if you spend resources developing a combat system, the other aspects of the game will necessarily not be as developed as they could have been otherwise. Maybe the benefits of this choice will outweigh the costs of the lost opportunity of improving other aspects of the game, my point is just to say, please think really really really hard about whether or not this is the case. I ask you to think really really really hard because i strongly suspect that it isn't. Of course i could definitely be wrong.

This really locks us into a manichaean tangle, which is strange... because for me, economics/resources and hitting people with sticks and rocks go hand in hand.

WWI wasn't as much about Ferdinand as it was the German's Baghdad Railway. Resources.

Crushing debt, over capacity, hyperinflation, and millions of pissed off, unemployed 18-25 year-old males. How do you handle this in an economic simulation? As a libertarian, I'd love to channel my inner-Friedman and tackle that. Realistically? You fire up the National Anthem and send them off to the meat grinder.

I look at my resources and make a value judgement -- I take my neighbor's winter stockpile of wood and coal. It's odious, it's uncivil, and it will eventually get me killed. But it's a response that happens alongside people deciding to produce something of value in exchange for heat in the winter.

If US Corporations and the Rothschilds can have trebuchets, why can't we? :D

All of the above is just me talking out loud. Now, specifically relevant to the game --

* A player can arbitrage and play the market without ever picking up a sword, and have an opportunity to make money
* A player can do nothing but cause subdural hematomas with his mace, and have an opportunity to make money
* A player can do nothing but hang out and socialize in the tavern and have an opportunity to make money

A player that can play the market, forge alliances, protect his resources and trade routes and use force as a multiplier has an opportunity make a lot of money... or lose it all.

I don't see it as a binary of 'full featured trade with no combat' or 'watered down trade with questionable level of combat'. I see it as offering players a choice.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: anon136 on June 13, 2014, 02:07:06 pm
Let me see if i can explain myself better. Even if the combat is indeed good, all actions have opportunity costs. Designing a solid combat system, even if you have talented the devs, and even if you have no budget constraint and even if you have zen like dedication from the devs, represents time spend designing combat that could have been used to improve the other aspects of the game instead. It is a fact that if you spend resources developing a combat system, the other aspects of the game will necessarily not be as developed as they could have been otherwise. Maybe the benefits of this choice will outweigh the costs of the lost opportunity of improving other aspects of the game, my point is just to say, please think really really really hard about whether or not this is the case. I ask you to think really really really hard because i strongly suspect that it isn't. Of course i could definitely be wrong.

This really locks us into a manichaean tangle, which is strange... because for me, economics/resources and hitting people with sticks and rocks go hand in hand.

WWI wasn't as much about Ferdinand as it was the German's Baghdad Railway. Resources.

Crushing debt, over capacity, hyperinflation, and millions of pissed off, unemployed 18-25 year-old males. How do you handle this in an economic simulation? As a libertarian, I'd love to channel my inner-Friedman and tackle that. Realistically? You fire up the National Anthem and send them off to the meat grinder.

I look at my resources and make a value judgement -- I take my neighbor's winter stockpile of wood and coal. It's odious, it's uncivil, and it will eventually get me killed. But it's a response that happens alongside people deciding to produce something of value in exchange for heat in the winter.

If US Corporations and the Rothschilds can have trebuchets, why can't we? :D

All of the above is just me talking out loud. Now, specifically relevant to the game --

* A player can arbitrage and play the market without ever picking up a sword, and have an opportunity to make money
* A player can do nothing but cause subdural hematomas with his mace, and have an opportunity to make money
* A player can do nothing but hang out and socialize in the tavern and have an opportunity to make money

A player that can play the market, forge alliances, protect his resources and trade routes and use force as a multiplier has an opportunity make a lot of money... or lose it all.

I don't see it as a binary of 'full featured trade with no combat' or 'watered down trade with questionable level of combat'. I see it as offering players a choice.

Good luck! I hope it's awesome!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: paythrough_team on June 14, 2014, 12:40:25 am
Well worth looking forward to the game
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: pandaisftw on June 14, 2014, 02:30:09 am
Let me see if i can explain myself better. Even if the combat is indeed good, all actions have opportunity costs. Designing a solid combat system, even if you have talented the devs, and even if you have no budget constraint and even if you have zen like dedication from the devs, represents time spend designing combat that could have been used to improve the other aspects of the game instead. It is a fact that if you spend resources developing a combat system, the other aspects of the game will necessarily not be as developed as they could have been otherwise. Maybe the benefits of this choice will outweigh the costs of the lost opportunity of improving other aspects of the game, my point is just to say, please think really really really hard about whether or not this is the case. I ask you to think really really really hard because i strongly suspect that it isn't. Of course i could definitely be wrong.

I understand what you are talking about - our focus and resources being divided. However, I do think that combat is integral to the economy. Risk associated with combat (ie. losing your factory because you were too cheap to defend it) are derived from economic motives. Combat will help stimulate the economy perhaps more than any other system we could implement, so it does not make sense to not include combat. Another point is that by not including combat, we're throwing away a large segment of our potential player-base that does enjoy combat activities. So trust me, we have considered the opportunity costs ;)

I also do think your concerns are unfounded - as with any project, team members have specializations and there is overhead. It would be incorrect to think that all of Lith team members can be working on the same topic at the same time and achieve maximum efficiency. For example, devs specialized in combat systems will not be assigned to work on designing an economy, and vice versa. So if we focus completely on one system, the diminishing returns would incur a huge opportunity cost vs. if we focused on both systems where devs are in their element. I hope this makes sense.

Pandaisftw
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: DrearyUrbanite on June 18, 2014, 01:10:02 am
I downloaded the demo and it is pretty impressive - I think  :) I haven't played it enough to figure it out yet.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on June 18, 2014, 01:21:26 am

I downloaded the demo and it is pretty impressive - I think  :) I haven't played it enough to figure it out yet.

It's pretty much a proof of concept to get a feel for Unity. It's not only doable, but quick and powerful. So that's a good sign.

I heard some really, really cool news from tech guys today... progress is coming quickly!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: anon136 on June 18, 2014, 02:31:23 am
I downloaded the demo and it is pretty impressive - I think  :) I haven't played it enough to figure it out yet.

link?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: DrearyUrbanite on June 18, 2014, 02:52:07 am
I downloaded the demo and it is pretty impressive - I think  :) I haven't played it enough to figure it out yet.

link?

Here you go - http://dorcsgames.com/lithfiles/Lith.zip
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: valarmg on June 18, 2014, 09:18:14 am
I guess you guys know about this but there seems to be a similar competing project in the works based on dogecoin.

Reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/28e20s/im_creating_an_mmorpg_with_cryptocurrency_as_our/

Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on June 18, 2014, 09:29:43 am
I guess you guys know about this but there seems to be a similar competing project in the works based on dogecoin.

Reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/28e20s/im_creating_an_mmorpg_with_cryptocurrency_as_our/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/28e20s/im_creating_an_mmorpg_with_cryptocurrency_as_our/)

No, I didn't! Thanks for that...

And it seems other coins as well.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Daedelus on June 18, 2014, 12:08:12 pm
I downloaded the demo and it is pretty impressive - I think  :) I haven't played it enough to figure it out yet.

link?

Here you go - http://dorcsgames.com/lithfiles/Lith.zip

Youtube video of game for spamming around the threads?  ;D
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: adsactly on June 18, 2014, 03:51:55 pm
This is a Great Idea I am going to do some more research on it to see how we can help with getting
Players and Marketers to help spread the word.

Will there be NXT Rewards for signing on your friends that could be a good incentive for people to
help build the Player Base.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: shin on June 18, 2014, 07:38:08 pm
I guess you guys know about this but there seems to be a similar competing project in the works based on dogecoin.

Reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/28e20s/im_creating_an_mmorpg_with_cryptocurrency_as_our/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/28e20s/im_creating_an_mmorpg_with_cryptocurrency_as_our/)

No, I didn't! Thanks for that...

And it seems other coins as well.
Wow.. cool :) nothing new though, in my opinion.. think of EVE online, but with cryptocurrency.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: qbd1313 on September 02, 2014, 07:47:36 am
buy some DORCS ASSETS  ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: jungian on September 02, 2014, 11:47:02 am
Checked out the demo. Put some music in, hit up a few more monsters I'll be having a good time alredy!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Costner on September 13, 2014, 12:51:52 pm
What is the relationship between Nxt and the game, just AE?

Can the fee in the game be NXT?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Costner on September 13, 2014, 12:58:41 pm
Will something like Bannercoin (previously Laksmi) be integrated into the game?

I.e. the more time people spend playing, the more Nxt revenue for you that you might share to support the game economy?

The game will have an in-game currency that will be directly tradeable against Nxt. :)

This means that there is a direct link from the virtual game world to the "real" world.

In theory, you could make a living chopping virtual wood, if you play your cards right :D

Is the in-game currency built on blockchain?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: jefdiesel on September 13, 2014, 12:59:39 pm
What is the relationship between Nxt and the game, just AE?

Can the fee in the game be NXT?

Hey Costner

 The top level game actions will be on a parallel block chain, including the ingame currency Lith. Lith will be freely traded with NXT, and this will give us a functioning in game economy that can be cashed out to fiat if desired.
 Any in game block chain fees will be low and not have an effect on the players wallets.

 
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Costner on September 13, 2014, 01:15:41 pm
What is the relationship between Nxt and the game, just AE?

Can the fee in the game be NXT?

Hey Costner

 The top level game actions will be on a parallel block chain, including the ingame currency Lith. Lith will be freely traded with NXT, and this will give us a functioning in game economy that can be cashed out to fiat if desired.
 Any in game block chain fees will be low and not have an effect on the players wallets.

Thank you for your reply.

Can you share the design document?
I have played the demo, but I can't find any information on in-game currency.
It seems most parties of game are under construction.
Can you share the development progress and the devoplopment plan?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on September 13, 2014, 01:40:17 pm
What is the relationship between Nxt and the game, just AE?

Can the fee in the game be NXT?

Hey Costner

 The top level game actions will be on a parallel block chain, including the ingame currency Lith. Lith will be freely traded with NXT, and this will give us a functioning in game economy that can be cashed out to fiat if desired.
 Any in game block chain fees will be low and not have an effect on the players wallets.

Thank you for your reply.

Can you share the design document?
I have played the demo, but I can't find any information on in-game currency.
It seems most parties of game are under construction.
Can you share the development progress and the devoplopment plan?

The "demo" as stated is not a "demo".
It's just something our client developer threw together in four hours to show what he can do with the Unity Engine.
It has nothing to do with the eventual game.

Starting next week, we will be launching a few new things:

1) new landing page for information and investors
2) newsletter service

As we are still in the stage that we are building a server prototype, most of our efforts are not yet in creating things that are "nice to show" eg. art/visuals.
Those are less important than the actual internals of the game. We will be updating on our development cycle once the newsletter is launched, but at first they will be quite sporadic.
We need to strike a balance between giving out information and between protecting our ideas until they are finished and we are sure no one else will head us off.
For this reason we cannot share our game blueprints/internal information yet.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Costner on September 15, 2014, 04:42:39 am
Did you set up a company for developing  the project?
It seems all of you are anonymous.

I want to invest Lith, but how can I trust your team?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: LiQio on September 15, 2014, 04:55:44 am
Not really anonymous: https://nxtforum.org/lith-the-nxt-mmo/meet-the-team!/
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on September 15, 2014, 07:56:18 am
Did you set up a company for developing  the project?

http://www.dorcsgames.com (http://www.dorcsgames.com)

The site is more or less a placeholder at the moment... that's going to change soon, as Bas will have some announcements to share.

It seems all of you are anonymous.

I want to invest Lith, but how can I trust your team?

We have an open door policy. Ask away. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on September 15, 2014, 01:42:45 pm
Did you set up a company for developing  the project?
It seems all of you are anonymous.

I want to invest Lith, but how can I trust your team?

At this moment we do not have a registered company, but are operating as a group.
This should change in the future, but at this moment, this is the best form for us to work in.

We are not anonymous: https://nxtforum.org/lith-the-nxt-mmo/meet-the-team!/
This part will be expanded on on our new site.
I am certainly not anonymous, as you can see my work all over Nxt, using my real name.
The rest will do the same. We have taken that decision at the start already.

You can ask any questions about our credentials you want.

A new site for the project will be up this week, and it will be expanded with all relevant details.
Feel free to badger me about that, as I share your wish to get it out in the open. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: jefdiesel on September 17, 2014, 02:45:23 pm
Hey costner,

 I too am a principal in Lith, and along with the others, am wide open and eager to share.
 There have been many discussions inside and outside of Lith how to best tie an asset on the AE to a government registered corporate structure but it still hasn't been found.
 I think the best cases will come with some smart contracts and account control features.
 This is a new economic structure and both entrepreneurs and investors are playing in an unfettered marketplace.
 This will cause concern in many, but for the ideas that work, there is potential for amazing growth and profit.
 So invest with your brain and your heart.
And like always,  please don't invest what you can't afford to lose.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: cobaltskky on September 19, 2014, 05:55:42 pm
I'm slowly accumulating DORCS as I have extra nxt. I think it's a great idea: play game, earn outside game money. :) What competitors does Lith have?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: shin on September 19, 2014, 06:53:54 pm
....... What competitors does Lith have?
Nxt Mania. ROFLMAO ;D Sorry, I can't help it. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on September 19, 2014, 08:41:40 pm
As far as I know, there is nothing on the scale and complexity that we are aiming at.

I have my vacation coming up Monday and I will at least be playing around a bit with Huntercoin.

But a completele MMO on this scale? Not done before :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: cobaltskky on September 20, 2014, 12:55:15 pm
....... What competitors does Lith have?
Nxt Mania. ROFLMAO ;D Sorry, I can't help it. :)

...It was a legitimate question, not rhetorical.  I didn't mean it as "Lith has no competitors."  However, it sounds like it doesn't. ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on September 20, 2014, 01:40:07 pm
....... What competitors does Lith have?
Nxt Mania. ROFLMAO ;D Sorry, I can't help it. :)

...It was a legitimate question, not rhetorical.  I didn't mean it as "Lith has no competitors."  However, it sounds like it doesn't. ;)

I'd like to amend that to: "Not that I know of".
I will probably use my upcoming vacation to have a good look around at what people are working on :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: chanc3r on September 20, 2014, 11:36:32 pm
....... What competitors does Lith have?
Nxt Mania. ROFLMAO ;D Sorry, I can't help it. :)

...It was a legitimate question, not rhetorical.  I didn't mean it as "Lith has no competitors."  However, it sounds like it doesn't. ;)

I'd like to amend that to: "Not that I know of".
I will probably use my upcoming vacation to have a good look around at what people are working on :)
if we have any competition - bring it!!!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: printshop on November 02, 2014, 03:31:44 pm
Music/Score:
swartzfeger is working on the ingame music, and currently we are in negotiation with a full orchestra to play the score.
Here are some preliminary soundscapes:
Requiem for Emule (http://www.nxtcoins.nl/showcase/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Emule-Requiem.mp3)
"Character" (http://www.nxtcoins.nl/showcase/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Nxtopia-character.mp3)
"Resurrection" (http://www.nxtcoins.nl/showcase/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Nxtopia-resurrection.mp3)

You have some good IP here. I like the music, especially the solfeggio-like "Character" and "Ressurection". I can see how the right visuals will really bring this game to life. I might have to buy more shares!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: semibaron on November 02, 2014, 06:40:48 pm
What is the game exactly about?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on November 02, 2014, 07:07:38 pm
What is the game exactly about?

The main focus of the game is "career building", in the widest possible sense.
It's economically driven, which means you will need to be smart or devious enough to get what you want by providing value to other players.
This will get you either resources, ór Lyth (the in game currency) with which to buy resources or services.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on November 03, 2014, 07:56:30 am
You have some good IP here. I like the music, especially the solfeggio-like "Character" and "Ressurection". I can see how the right visuals will really bring this game to life. I might have to buy more shares!

Thanks Printshop, I'm tickled you noticed!

It would be easy (and clichéd) to load up some virtual instruments like psaltery, flute, dulcimer etc and do 'the usual.'

I'm an old prog rock guy but the last few years I've been getting heavily into ambient via guys like Brian Eno and Robert Fripp, which led me to discover things like solfeggio, hemisync, binaural beats, A=432, etc etc. I'm already well-versed in odd meters, polyrhythms, displacement, etc, and always looking for ways to generate a feeling of 'otherness'. I'd hate to write stuff that would make the game sound like your local summer renaissance fair, ya know? There will be some traditional stuff, but I've been messing with duduks and ouds and saz for a bit of 'otherness' (at least for a lot of N. American and W. European ears).

Have been digging pretty deep into generative music (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generative_music) and I'm excited to pair that with player exploration. Generative is almost like aural haiku, full of hints and suggestions... I think it may be a fresh backdrop for players exploring a new world.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Kiomansk on November 12, 2014, 01:58:32 am
When do you think DORCS might start looking into a process of hiring new recruits to the team?

....... What competitors does Lith have?
The closest competition I can think of is E.V.E Online. It's the most similar to Lyth AFAIK.

Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on November 12, 2014, 02:11:44 am

When do you think DORCS might start looking into a process of hiring new recruits to the team?

This is more Damelon's domain, but we will have a clearer idea once the sell wall comes down on Friday and the team can see where we stand fund-wise.

The benefit of having 5 talented directors is that we work cheap. :)  But we also have a lot of work we certainly need to delegate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: printshop on November 12, 2014, 07:36:17 am
Hello. futurist has made a small donation to the Lith project. I've made the transaction in his name. Please use the shares for a purpose related to the development of the game! Thanks.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: futurist on November 12, 2014, 07:57:51 am
Hello. futurist has made a small donation to the Lith project. I've made the transaction in his name. Please use the shares for a purpose related to the development of the game! Thanks.

A VERY SMALL donation at this moment of time, however these types of donations can add up exponentially. I would suggest other asset issuers/hodlers adopt this method of reinvesting in NXT development, marketing, etc.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on November 12, 2014, 10:02:10 am
Hello. futurist has made a small donation to the Lith project. I've made the transaction in his name. Please use the shares for a purpose related to the development of the game! Thanks.

A VERY SMALL donation at this moment of time, however these types of donations can add up exponentially. I would suggest other asset issuers/hodlers adopt this method of reinvesting in NXT development, marketing, etc.


Your support is appreciated and keeps us going... thank you *very* much! :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: KarlKarlsson on November 12, 2014, 10:49:30 am
Is there by any chance an estimated time for the release? I can't wait to start playing  :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on November 12, 2014, 12:40:17 pm
Is there by any chance an estimated time for the release? I can't wait to start playing  :)

No, it's far to early for that.
We wíll have an update about how the prototyping soon.

We're finishing that part up and then can start on an alpha, which should come with a definite date for alpha testing to start.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Dick_Green on November 19, 2014, 03:43:52 am
Is there by any chance an estimated time for the release? I can't wait to start playing  :)

No, it's far to early for that.
We wíll have an update about how the prototyping soon.

We're finishing that part up and then can start on an alpha, which should come with a definite date for alpha testing to start.
would the alpha be open for everyone to test or closed?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: lucky88888 on November 19, 2014, 07:05:11 am
i love multiplayer games, i would like to play even the very basic functions like just walking around and maybe able to chat with other players testing and walking about. just experiencing the birth and growth of the online world would make me want to hop on every day to see whats new.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: leo+ on November 23, 2014, 04:50:53 pm
this looks like a great upcoming game, hopefully the alpha is open to everyone :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on November 23, 2014, 07:55:33 pm
this looks like a great upcoming game, hopefully the alpha is open to everyone :)

As it stands now, the alpha will be subscription-based as an alpha test requires people who can give very clear feedback for specialised subjects.
The beta will certainly be open to anyone.

We'll be opening alpha subscriptions when we are starting our run towards alpha itself.

Any plans to team up with jinn in the future?  ;)

At this moment we have no plans to team up with Jinn.
What we are trying to do is big enough as it is :D

But who knows, we don't exclude possibities.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: marcm9000 on December 10, 2014, 04:29:29 am
Ever read Midnight at the Well of Souls? Jack Chalker

if not the series may give you more ideas. This is a very similar story.

marc
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: chanc3r on December 10, 2014, 06:13:42 am
Ever read Midnight at the Well of Souls? Jack Chalker

if not the series may give you more ideas. This is a very similar story.

marc

Someone else with good taste....
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Psybin on December 28, 2014, 08:35:31 pm
You have some good IP here. I like the music, especially the solfeggio-like "Character" and "Ressurection". I can see how the right visuals will really bring this game to life. I might have to buy more shares!

Thanks Printshop, I'm tickled you noticed!

It would be easy (and clichéd) to load up some virtual instruments like psaltery, flute, dulcimer etc and do 'the usual.'

I'm an old prog rock guy but the last few years I've been getting heavily into ambient via guys like Brian Eno and Robert Fripp, which led me to discover things like solfeggio, hemisync, binaural beats, A=432, etc etc. I'm already well-versed in odd meters, polyrhythms, displacement, etc, and always looking for ways to generate a feeling of 'otherness'. I'd hate to write stuff that would make the game sound like your local summer renaissance fair, ya know? There will be some traditional stuff, but I've been messing with duduks and ouds and saz for a bit of 'otherness' (at least for a lot of N. American and W. European ears).

It would be awesome if you used A=432hz music (and Solfeggio etc.) in this game!  Lith (or is it Lyth?) is a new and unique concept using NXT and the world needs more music in A=432hz so I think it would fit in a game like this.  What I'm saying, for those who don't know about 432hz, is that 440hz and fiat are both disharmonious systems, so this would be perfect. ;p

If there was ever a poll and you hadn't decided yet, I'd choose Lyth. :)  To me, a 'y' seems better for a game.. and I'm reminded of Myst.

Edit: Disregard all the Lith/Lyth stuff.  I just saw you changed it!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on December 29, 2014, 05:06:52 pm
It would be awesome if you used A=432hz music (and Solfeggio etc.) in this game!  Lith (or is it Lyth?) is a new and unique concept using NXT and the world needs more music in A=432hz so I think it would fit in a game like this.  What I'm saying, for those who don't know about 432hz, is that 440hz and fiat are both disharmonious systems, so this would be perfect. ;p

I've been reading quite a bit about A432 and haven't decided if it's new age bullsh*t or the real deal. But I'm open minded enough to give it a try... why not? Tune down a few cents (edit: it's actually 31.8 cents), it certainly wouldn't *hurt*.

The one thing holding me back from actually using A432 -- sample libraries. I'd bet the majority of Kontakt, soundfont etc libraries are recorded at A440. Detuning to 432 would certainly work, but I would think the frequency was still recorded/sampled at 440, and resampling at 432 wouldn't change the frequency of the fundamental... we would still be playing back the 'disharmonious' vibration, just at a different pitch. (I think I said all that correctly!)

Now, for a piece of music where everything is captured and recorded live? I'm definitely game. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Psybin on December 29, 2014, 08:47:31 pm
It would be awesome if you used A=432hz music (and Solfeggio etc.) in this game!  Lith (or is it Lyth?) is a new and unique concept using NXT and the world needs more music in A=432hz so I think it would fit in a game like this.  What I'm saying, for those who don't know about 432hz, is that 440hz and fiat are both disharmonious systems, so this would be perfect. ;p

I've been reading quite a bit about A432 and haven't decided if it's new age bullsh*t or the real deal. But I'm open minded enough to give it a try... why not? Tune down a few cents (edit: it's actually 31.8 cents), it certainly wouldn't *hurt*.

The one thing holding me back from actually using A432 -- sample libraries. I'd bet the majority of Kontakt, soundfont etc libraries are recorded at A440. Detuning to 432 would certainly work, but I would think the frequency was still recorded/sampled at 440, and resampling at 432 wouldn't change the frequency of the fundamental... we would still be playing back the 'disharmonious' vibration, just at a different pitch. (I think I said all that correctly!)

Now, for a piece of music where everything is captured and recorded live? I'm definitely game. :)

I think it's the real deal.  The cymatics of the two frequencies shows a nice, symmetrical shape in 432hz and a messy blob in 440hz.  I've been listening to some music in 432hz lately and it's quite a difference.  I can actually feel the notes for once in my life lol.  It's not placebo cuz there have been times I've been listening (without headphones even) while focused on something else and a guitar note literally startled me and almost made me jump, like it resonated with my whole body.  I could go into the importance of the number and all that but I'll save it.  You've probably come across how ancient instruments were tuned to 432hz.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, the topic is just exciting to me. :)  You're right about the samples and even down-tuning and how it wouldn't work as well as actual instruments tuned to 432hz.  So if you explore that area and implement it I would love to see/hear it!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on December 30, 2014, 09:08:42 am
Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, the topic is just exciting to me. :)  You're right about the samples and even down-tuning and how it wouldn't work as well as actual instruments tuned to 432hz.  So if you explore that area and implement it I would love to see/hear it!

When I'm bored, I'll occasionally humor myself with imaginary challenges -- "Bas and Jef just finished a new storyboard/cutscene and they need music for a player dying on the outer steps of a jungle temple... ASAP. GO!"

So I think, hmmm. The jungle has chatter, so I want something that evokes (but doesn't mimic) the chirps and whistles one would hear. The player is losing consciousness and probably dying, so I want something peaceful, ethereal, to contrast those little bastard goblins scrambling down the steps of the temple and their javelins hurling toward the motionless hero in cinematic, slow-motion arcs.

I loaded up my synth, but this time, I set it to A=432. Also bounced it out as a 24/96 wav (if we're going to shake things up, let's REALLY shake things up!)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2340059/lyth/solfeggio-jungle.wav (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2340059/lyth/solfeggio-jungle.wav)

It's a 55mb file, 1:36 running length.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: jones on January 01, 2015, 07:02:05 am
I was curious about this A=432 so I tuned my ukulele to it, and I have to say that it does have a pretty good sound to it.

bit of a side note, but it is pretty cool
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: CoinaDay on January 06, 2015, 01:25:26 am
Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, the topic is just exciting to me. :)  You're right about the samples and even down-tuning and how it wouldn't work as well as actual instruments tuned to 432hz.  So if you explore that area and implement it I would love to see/hear it!

When I'm bored, I'll occasionally humor myself with imaginary challenges -- "Bas and Jef just finished a new storyboard/cutscene and they need music for a player dying on the outer steps of a jungle temple... ASAP. GO!"

So I think, hmmm. The jungle has chatter, so I want something that evokes (but doesn't mimic) the chirps and whistles one would hear. The player is losing consciousness and probably dying, so I want something peaceful, ethereal, to contrast those little bastard goblins scrambling down the steps of the temple and their javelins hurling toward the motionless hero in cinematic, slow-motion arcs.

I loaded up my synth, but this time, I set it to A=432. Also bounced it out as a 24/96 wav (if we're going to shake things up, let's REALLY shake things up!)

It's a 55mb file, 1:36 running length.

I registered just to say I think this sounds incredible. It's great to have such thought put into this world. I'm definitely excited to check back in a while and see how this all develops. I've never heard of this different frequencies/scales either, and it's very fascinating to hear. If I have to die horribly in a game, it's nice to at least have this be the background.  ;)

Best of luck to you all!

[link removed from quote since it won't let me post links.]
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: rtrtcrypto on January 06, 2015, 01:52:03 am
I would not worry about this 432 hz idea - it will be much more trouble than it's worth. You will have trouble with libraries and having to re-tune everything.

Even if there were a real compelling reason as to why 432hz is "better" than 440 - unless you are going to be writing music that is (more or less) a sounding of the harmonic series for the majority of the game, this "betterment" would be lost on the beating that occurs on just about every vertical structure (chord) that appears in the music of the game.

Tuning systems are complex and if you want true HARMONIC (as opposed to INHARMONIC) structures you are going to have to re-tune by hand just about every sound that appears in the game - few libraries will handle that.

If you want to learn more about this - study the writings and music of the spectralists (Tristan Murail and Gerard Grisey)

Talking about 432hz and then writing in equal temperament will be a waste of your time as far as I can see.

As an aside, I am MOST interest in beating and INHARMONICITY - so, some of us actually don't want HARMONIC sounding structures as the basis of an aesthetic experience.

I'm happy to elaborate much further if need be or exchange ideas with anyone on the matter.

Best,



Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: rtrtcrypto on January 06, 2015, 02:01:44 am
btw,

I am also EXTREMELY skeptical that "the ancients" (whomever they may be) tuned their instruments (which?) to 432hz... I have no idea how "we" would know that, when we already have a hard enough time knowing precisely what BACH (not an "ancient" composer but of the high baroque) tuned his keyboards (harpsichord, etc) to. What Bach labels in keys (say, the 1st prelude and fugue of the WTC in C major) would be, in his time, about 1/2 step or so (we think) lower than today's standard tuning.

 

Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on January 06, 2015, 03:10:30 am

As an aside, I am MOST interest in beating and INHARMONICITY - so, some of us actually don't want HARMONIC sounding structures as the basis of an aesthetic experience.

I lean that way as well. My love for prog rock (Rush, Yes, King Crimson, et al) led me into polyrhythms and rhythmic modulations, then into gamelan-inspired stuff, then into cats like Steve Reich and Phillip Glass.

If I could get away with beating on things and recording it...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on January 06, 2015, 03:20:58 am

I registered just to say I think this sounds incredible. It's great to have such thought put into this world. I'm definitely excited to check back in a while and see how this all develops. I've never heard of this different frequencies/scales either, and it's very fascinating to hear. If I have to die horribly in a game, it's nice to at least have this be the background.  ;)

Best of luck to you all!

[link removed from quote since it won't let me post links.]

Thanks CoinaDay. It's a long, slow process but we love what we're doing. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Psybin on January 07, 2015, 05:16:03 pm
Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, the topic is just exciting to me. :)  You're right about the samples and even down-tuning and how it wouldn't work as well as actual instruments tuned to 432hz.  So if you explore that area and implement it I would love to see/hear it!

When I'm bored, I'll occasionally humor myself with imaginary challenges -- "Bas and Jef just finished a new storyboard/cutscene and they need music for a player dying on the outer steps of a jungle temple... ASAP. GO!"

So I think, hmmm. The jungle has chatter, so I want something that evokes (but doesn't mimic) the chirps and whistles one would hear. The player is losing consciousness and probably dying, so I want something peaceful, ethereal, to contrast those little bastard goblins scrambling down the steps of the temple and their javelins hurling toward the motionless hero in cinematic, slow-motion arcs.

I loaded up my synth, but this time, I set it to A=432. Also bounced it out as a 24/96 wav (if we're going to shake things up, let's REALLY shake things up!)

I thought I replied the other day but the link stopped me.  I listened to the clip and I like it.  :)  Whichever direction you go, this game will have great music! 

I get what you guys are saying, but I don't really think having some music tuned to 432hz would interfere with much, especially sound effects.  It doesn't sound all that different, they're just pure and resonant tones.  I'm not asking for the whole game to use it but maybe in certain areas it would be fitting.

rtrtcrypto, I'm at work right now so I can't look much into it but some Indian sitars and Tibetan singing bowls were tuned to 432hz.  The sitars might be more difficult to determine but the singing bowls never change their tones.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: rtrtcrypto on January 07, 2015, 07:54:24 pm
Hey,

First, if someone wants to re-tune to 432hz - that's fine by me. The trouble of re-doing the libraries would be the only real headache in this case.

BUT,

The idea that there is something "better" about 432hz is really problematic. If you are really interested in knowing more about WHY that is the case, you can read a semi-basic text like: http://blogs.surrey.ac.uk/arts/2014/04/23/432-hz-so-good/

If you can't follow this text 100%, then I think that we better drop this subject (again, tuning systems are very complex subjects) for now.

If after reading this text you still feel a desire to talk more about the properties of tunings systems and go deeper into why 432hz as "special" is problematic, we can go much deeper than the above text in seeing what it would mean to create truly HARMONIC sound structures which eliminate (or attempts to eliminate) all beating from occurring.

People who get caught up in these sorts of topics tend to take for granted just HOW complex musical tones and their harmonic spectra really are.

As an example, musical tones produced on acoustic instruments (or samples) are actually not single "notes" but aggregates of a huge number of harmonic spectra that the ear FUSES into a discernible tone. 

Take a low C on the piano, that sound of the low C can be broken down into a large number of harmonics which come together to form that single pitch that you hear - with enough practice you can actually hear many partials (harmonics) in single pitches sounded by acoustic instruments. In my case, when you play a low C on the piano - I actually hear THIS (and can isolate any one of these harmonics in real time listening):

C C G C E (slightly flat by about 1/6 of a tone) G Bb (also slightly flat) C D E F# (almost 1/4 tone flat)

The above is the harmonic series or overtone series of the note C - it actually carries on (from low to high):

C C G C E G Bb C D E F# G Ab (out of tune as well) Bb B C C# D D# E F F# G etc

The difference in the temperament of notes that appear in the harmonic series and notes that appear in western music (like our equal temperament) complicates things!!! 

As an aside, the spectral content of Tibetan singing bowls is also quite rich (and complex) - a sitar even MORE so.

If you are drawn to these droning type sounds and want to hear important music (though not at ALL trying to avoid inharmonicity) that looks very seriously into acoustic and psycho-acoustic phenomena, listen to these links:

GRISEY (a work dealing with HARMONICITY and INHARMONICITY as the foundations of a musical syntax) Here notes ARE "tuned" microtonaly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqzukP_BtW8

RADULESCU (more microtonality):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKeo79Ldz50

I have 100s of scores and audio examples of various composers who worked on microtonal syntaxes.

Best,









Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, the topic is just exciting to me. :)  You're right about the samples and even down-tuning and how it wouldn't work as well as actual instruments tuned to 432hz.  So if you explore that area and implement it I would love to see/hear it!

When I'm bored, I'll occasionally humor myself with imaginary challenges -- "Bas and Jef just finished a new storyboard/cutscene and they need music for a player dying on the outer steps of a jungle temple... ASAP. GO!"

So I think, hmmm. The jungle has chatter, so I want something that evokes (but doesn't mimic) the chirps and whistles one would hear. The player is losing consciousness and probably dying, so I want something peaceful, ethereal, to contrast those little bastard goblins scrambling down the steps of the temple and their javelins hurling toward the motionless hero in cinematic, slow-motion arcs.

I loaded up my synth, but this time, I set it to A=432. Also bounced it out as a 24/96 wav (if we're going to shake things up, let's REALLY shake things up!)

I thought I replied the other day but the link stopped me.  I listened to the clip and I like it.  :)  Whichever direction you go, this game will have great music! 

I get what you guys are saying, but I don't really think having some music tuned to 432hz would interfere with much, especially sound effects.  It doesn't sound all that different, they're just pure and resonant tones.  I'm not asking for the whole game to use it but maybe in certain areas it would be fitting.

rtrtcrypto, I'm at work right now so I can't look much into it but some Indian sitars and Tibetan singing bowls were tuned to 432hz.  The sitars might be more difficult to determine but the singing bowls never change their tones.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on January 08, 2015, 04:40:32 am
Hey,

First, if someone wants to re-tune to 432hz - that's fine by me. The trouble of re-doing the libraries would be the only real headache in this case.

Yep. And it's a headache. :)

Take a low C on the piano, that sound of the low C can be broken down into a large number of harmonics which come together to form that single pitch that you hear - with enough practice you can actually hear many partials (harmonics) in single pitches sounded by acoustic instruments. In my case, when you play a low C on the piano - I actually hear THIS (and can isolate any one of these harmonics in real time listening):

Yep again. A lot (a *LOT*) of guitar players scoff at this, but there are those that can hear the difference between fundamentals/overtones with various wood, neck-through/bolt-on, pickups. I bought a Fender through craigslist and it was gorgeous, a custom model that was neck-through (almost unheard of with Fender). I took it home without even plugging it in -- it was simply a gorgeous guitar.

Got home, plugged it in, strummed a F#7sus4 and HATED it. What some would call 'rich' just sounded like a washy mess of overtones to my ears.

I mostly agree with your sentiment on the tuning issue; the A=432 stuff by it's very nature doesn't address tonality outside the domain of the 'Western semitone'. Which is an awful lot of wonderful music.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on January 08, 2015, 04:51:27 am

I thought I replied the other day but the link stopped me.  I listened to the clip and I like it.  :)  Whichever direction you go, this game will have great music! 

I get what you guys are saying, but I don't really think having some music tuned to 432hz would interfere with much, especially sound effects.  It doesn't sound all that different, they're just pure and resonant tones.  I'm not asking for the whole game to use it but maybe in certain areas it would be fitting.


Thanks Psybin. I spent my few days off from work really digging into my DAW and various soft-synths. Some synths make it easy, others not so much, and some not at all. My general conclusion -- recording a single acoustic at A=432 would be easy; an entire project would be a headache and require too many workarounds.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: OutSL on January 13, 2015, 10:17:55 pm
+1 for the alpha, maybe i can help :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on January 13, 2015, 11:12:40 pm
+1 for the alpha, maybe i can help :)

Send me a PM :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Sack.Ninja on January 15, 2015, 08:18:34 pm
Thanks for the blog recommendation, rtrtcrypto, although everything stated there is ACTUALLY obvious, if give it a thought, I really enjoyed the structured and intelligent "composition" of arguments and shall now tune all my gear to an increasing Hz number representing the number of songs I have written, to make it a dynamic, growing and representing tuning ;)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on January 22, 2015, 07:39:10 pm
Just a very quick update to show we're not dead:

As you know, we've had a small setback with one of the devs having to drop out.
We have someone else helping out now.

Also, we will be adding blog functionality to the site soon, so we can update you there in a nicer format. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: leo+ on January 23, 2015, 01:08:03 pm
Good to see this project is not dead, one of the things I'm definitly looking forward to trying out when the time comes. If the game is good, it could attract alot of other gamers with the real economy through the nxt blockchain. Would lyth be using the MS through the game in some way as the in-game currency? Or will nxt be used directly in-game?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Biocrypt on January 24, 2015, 05:28:36 pm
Hi, I have been quietly following Lyth for quite a while and I understand that it will be a warcraft/skyrim style sandbox mmo built on the Nxt blockchain. it sounds great, but I have a couple of questions that I'm sure others would like to know also. If you cant answer or simply don't know thats okay but I'd like to ask anyway.
First and most importantly, does anyone know yet if it will be free to play or if a subscription will be required?
Second, In terms of the initial game design, will you be starting with just trees that the players must log and shape into villages or more of a basic AI village framework to expand on?
This is more of a suggestion than a question, as I assume the game will be open source, like Nxt, perhaps developers from outside the core team could design various things such as tools and weapons ect. then have them vetted by the core team and imported to the game for an in-game reward, on an ongoing basis? this would reduce the workload for the core devs and promote the evolution of the game. This leads me to my next question.
Will the game be allowed to progress in terms of technology? We might start with swords and horses but outside developers could design space ships and other worlds the possibilities are endless.
Also is there any kind of timeline for when to expect an alpha?
Im really looking forward to it but I'm happy to wait longer if it means a better game, I'm quite excited about this
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Damelon on January 24, 2015, 05:41:29 pm
Hi, I have been quietly following Lyth for quite a while and I understand that it will be a warcraft/skyrim style sandbox mmo built on the Nxt blockchain. it sounds great, but I have a couple of questions that I'm sure others would like to know also. If you cant answer or simply don't know thats okay but I'd like to ask anyway.
First and most importantly, does anyone know yet if it will be free to play or if a subscription will be required?
Second, In terms of the initial game design, will you be starting with just trees that the players must log and shape into villages or more of a basic AI village framework to expand on?
This is more of a suggestion than a question, as I assume the game will be open source, like Nxt, perhaps developers from outside the core team could design various things such as tools and weapons ect. then have them vetted by the core team and imported to the game for an in-game reward, on an ongoing basis? this would reduce the workload for the core devs and promote the evolution of the game. This leads me to my next question.
Will the game be allowed to progress in terms of technology? We might start with swords and horses but outside developers could design space ships and other worlds the possibilities are endless.
Also is there any kind of timeline for when to expect an alpha?
Im really looking forward to it but I'm happy to wait longer if it means a better game, I'm quite excited about this

I'll answer your questions one by one :)

1. Free To Play. We have a model that allows us to make money by the in game transactions.

2. The initial state of the game will be very basic, so yes, players will build most of the world from the ground up. There will be a basic quest system to help new players get their feet on the ground, but that's about it.

3. Yes, we want the game to allow people to add things. We're still working out how this needs to be implemented, but it's one of the things on our list of features.

4. Yes, the game is designed to progress. We have accounted for the fact that the game can progress from "low" tech to very high tech. This allows us to keep the game alive for a long long time. The tech level will also impact the "magic" system we want to have in place at the lower tech level.

Hope that answers your questions :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Jushe on January 25, 2015, 11:57:03 pm
This game looks awesome. I downloaded and played the mock version. Looks cool. Can someone explain how this game is going to work? Is this game going to be similar to runescape except that players build and create the cities? Players have to gather supplies to build the cities?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: lucky88888 on January 26, 2015, 02:14:07 am
where did you find the mock version? i would like to try it out.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on January 26, 2015, 02:22:09 am
There is no mock version available for download. Jushe, care to elaborate where you downloaded this mock build?


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Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: rlh on January 26, 2015, 03:35:22 am
There is no mock version available for download. Jushe, care to elaborate where you downloaded this mock build?


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You guys did link a test, demo-of-what's-possibly app a few months ago.

I don't think it was a pre-alpha but, instead, a test app that you guys released to show that you guys could actually code something playable.

I can't recall where it was posted but I did immediately downloaded it and gave it a test drive.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on January 26, 2015, 04:07:50 am
Ahh, yes... totally forgot about that!


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Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Jushe on January 27, 2015, 03:20:32 am
Yeah, rlh got it right, that's what I'm talking about when I say "mock version" I didn't know what else to call it.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Jushe on January 27, 2015, 03:25:11 am
where did you find the mock version? i would like to try it out.

Go to this thread --> https://nxtforum.org/lith-the-nxt-mmo/our-client-developer-marcus-was-bored-and-made-something-for-you/

First comment has the download. I found the music they posted for the game and listened to it while I ran around looking at stuff lol
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: Biocrypt on February 01, 2015, 10:09:19 pm

I'll answer your questions one by one :)

1. Free To Play. We have a model that allows us to make money by the in game transactions.

2. The initial state of the game will be very basic, so yes, players will build most of the world from the ground up. There will be a basic quest system to help new players get their feet on the ground, but that's about it.

3. Yes, we want the game to allow people to add things. We're still working out how this needs to be implemented, but it's one of the things on our list of features.

4. Yes, the game is designed to progress. We have accounted for the fact that the game can progress from "low" tech to very high tech. This allows us to keep the game alive for a long long time. The tech level will also impact the "magic" system we want to have in place at the lower tech level.

Hope that answers your questions :)

Thats brilliant! I will haveto save up for a gaming PC NOW!
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: MJ79 on February 02, 2015, 02:58:34 pm
Just curious:

Any updated timelines for Lyth?

Also:

Is Lyth being designed with people in mind that can only play a few hours on sunday afternoon, or would the general offlineliness make it useless against people with a lot more free time on their hands?

I don't expect to be the über-GLEFU with only a few hours of gametime a week, but hope at least my small woodcuttershop will still be there when i log in after a week?
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: rlh on February 02, 2015, 07:38:42 pm
Just curious:

Any updated timelines for Lyth?

Also:

Is Lyth being designed with people in mind that can only play a few hours on sunday afternoon, or would the general offlineliness make it useless against people with a lot more free time on their hands?

I don't expect to be the über-GLEFU with only a few hours of gametime a week, but hope at least my small woodcuttershop will still be there when i log in after a week?

Lol, good question.  Yeah, I'd be that type of player that would't have much more than a humble family farm too.
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: swartzfeger on February 02, 2015, 10:03:21 pm
Is Lyth being designed with people in mind that can only play a few hours on sunday afternoon, or would the general offlineliness make it useless against people with a lot more free time on their hands?

I don't expect to be the über-GLEFU with only a few hours of gametime a week, but hope at least my small woodcuttershop will still be there when i log in after a week?

Our goal is to scale the game to the player's style -- from a humble farm to a sprawling demesne limited only by your time and resources. Your own empire? Sure, why not? I'm confident other players will have something to say about that. :)

More specifically to limited hours of gametime, I will say that Bas and I are fans of EVE's offline skill system; in other words, your persistent game world is still buzzing away online while you're logged off and dealing with your daily commute IRL, spending time with your family, etc.

Punishing gamers with limited time is not on the agenda. :)
Title: Re: [ANN] Lith - An Emergent Trading Game
Post by: MJ79 on February 03, 2015, 10:12:52 pm
Our goal is to scale the game to the player's style -- from a humble farm to a sprawling demesne limited only by your time and resources. Your own empire? Sure, why not? I'm confident other players will have something to say about that. :)

More specifically to limited hours of gametime, I will say that Bas and I are fans of EVE's offline skill system; in other words, your persistent game world is still buzzing away online while you're logged off and dealing with your daily commute IRL, spending time with your family, etc.

Punishing gamers with limited time is not on the agenda. :)

Sounds good!

Looking forward to first alpha versions  :)
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