Topic: [Phoenix] Phoenix (15610018253699198756) (Read 2875 times)

printshop · « **on:** February 27, 2015, 09:29:07 pm »

Quote from: PHX on February 27, 2015, 08:51:44 am

Name: Phoenix (PHX)

Asset ID: 15610018253699198756

Supply: 10,000,000

Advisor: whale, Nxtinspect

Phoenix (PHX) is an initiative to help fund crypto startups, altcoins and other related projects. It does not pay dividends, rather it uses Net Asset Value (NAV) as a price indicator.

By supporting the crypto ecosystem, carefully selected projects are able to reach their full potential by applying for funding requests. In return, Phoenix negotiates a percentage of the projects assets.

Furthermore, other value-increasing initiatives will be undertaken; such as altcoin, mining and precious metal investments.

Phoenix aims to be one of the most well-rounded and respected assets on the NXT AE through aggressive investment decisions.

Fundraiser:

On February 27 2015 at 20.00 UTC our offering will commence.

Asset distribution:

9,000,000 shares @ 0.1 NXT will be put up for sale (6,000,000 on the NXT AE and 3,000,000 on an exchange which will be announced in a few days)

1,000,000 shares will be distributed among management

All Phoenix projects, status, holdings and grants will be listed under a dedicated board: https://nxtforum.org/phoenix/

100 point scale: Is this asset a worthwhile investment?
==========================================
Last updated: 2015-02-28

a) Does this asset have a business plan and/or prospectus? (/10)
Executive summary yes. Business plan no, prospectus no. (+2)

b) Do shares represent ownership and control? Do they pay a dividend?
Shares do not represent ownership or control, nor do they pay a dividend. (+2)

c) Does this asset provide regular financial updates to investors? (/10)
The asset issuer has stated he will provide a list of 'all projects, status, holdings and grants' on the sub-forum https://nxtforum.org/phoenix/ in the future, but has not done so prior to selling shares. (+5)

d) Is there a contract or any other form legal guarantee which protects investors?
No. (+1)

e) Is the asset issuer qualified to do what he states he wants to do? (/10)
The asset issuer has declined to discuss his qualifications (+1)

f) Is there any sort of proof that the asset is conducting business as stated? (/10)
No. (+1)

g) Does this asset provide contact information to investors? (/10)
The asset issuer has given his ID to NXTinspect but is otherwise anonymous. (+6)

h) Does the asset issuer communicate professionally and with customers and investors? (/10)
The asset issuer has a history of ignoring investor questions and insulting his investors. (+1)

i) Does this asset issuer co-operate with community ratings services? (/10)
the asset issuer is being advised by NXTinspect, but has shown antagonism towards KNS. (+5)

j) Has the asset been in profitable operation for at least one year? (/10)
Just out of IPO (+5) no other information available.

1-30: Not worth a second look; the asset is either a scam or a failure.
31-60: The asset is unlikely to succeed due to serious flaws in setup or management. Not investment grade.
61-79: The asset has problems but warrants a closer look.
80+: Pass; a more detailed analysis is suggested to clear the asset for investment.

Phoenix (15610018253699198756) scores:
2015-02-28: +29 (Comments: Primary negatives are poor investor relations, no business plan, and a lack of experience running similar assets. Likely to fail within 6 months.)

printshop · « **Reply #1 on:** February 27, 2015, 10:17:40 pm »

One thing which seriously bothers me about this asset, related to the extreme lack of disclosure or investor prospectus, is the fact that chanc3r and whale and other core insiders have bought millions of shares of this asset off the IPO. We have seen this numerous times now, where an asset is released with a certain shroud of mystery and/or lack of investor communication, and insiders snap up the entire IPO only to re-sell it later.

Even if that isn't the plan here I can't see how anyone could justify getting insider access to a business plan and prospectus while everyone on the outside gets next to nothing. I'm actually shocked that this thing sold out several million units because it was literally announced yesterday, the asset issuer is evasive and rude, and otherwise looks like a steaming pile of horsecrap.

chanc3r · « **Reply #2 on:** February 27, 2015, 10:31:00 pm »

Printshop - You are entitled to your opinion about the asset, however your claim regarding my purchase of the asset is incorrect.

I submitted my bid on the Asset Exchange like everyone else, you can see the account ending 2V222 - you will see the purchase was completed when the sale order was put up - there was something like 12 hours between the ANN and the sale order being posted and a significant number of people took advantage and also submitted buys at the correct price in advance of the sell and above the price to ensure their order was filled.

If it is as bad as you claim then I have clearly wasted an investment, time will tell.

Quote from: printshop on February 27, 2015, 10:17:40 pm

One thing which seriously bothers me about this asset, related to the extreme lack of disclosure or investor prospectus, is the fact that chanc3r and whale and other core insiders have bought millions of shares of this asset off the IPO. We have seen this numerous times now, where an asset is released with a certain shroud of mystery and/or lack of investor communication, and insiders snap up the entire IPO only to re-sell it later.

Even if that isn't the plan here I can't see how anyone could justify getting insider access to a business plan and prospectus while everyone on the outside gets next to nothing. I'm actually shocked that this thing sold out several million units because it was literally announced yesterday and otherwise looks like a steaming pile of horsecrap.

printshop · « **Reply #3 on:** February 28, 2015, 07:01:30 am »

Quote from: chanc3r on February 27, 2015, 10:31:00 pm

Printshop - You are entitled to your opinion about the asset, however your claim regarding my purchase of the asset is incorrect.

I submitted my bid on the Asset Exchange like everyone else, you can see the account ending 2V222 - you will see the purchase was completed when the sale order was put up - there was something like 12 hours between the ANN and the sale order being posted and a significant number of people took advantage and also submitted buys at the correct price in advance of the sell and above the price to ensure their order was filled.

If it is as bad as you claim then I have clearly wasted an investment, time will tell.

Quote from: printshop on February 27, 2015, 10:17:40 pm
One thing which seriously bothers me about this asset, related to the extreme lack of disclosure or investor prospectus, is the fact that chanc3r and whale and other core insiders have bought millions of shares of this asset off the IPO. We have seen this numerous times now, where an asset is released with a certain shroud of mystery and/or lack of investor communication, and insiders snap up the entire IPO only to re-sell it later.

Even if that isn't the plan here I can't see how anyone could justify getting insider access to a business plan and prospectus while everyone on the outside gets next to nothing. I'm actually shocked that this thing sold out several million units because it was literally announced yesterday and otherwise looks like a steaming pile of horsecrap.

Your point is valid, and your clarifications are welcome. However the 100 point scale I came up with only asks objective questions and does not represent my personal opinion. The scores are only valid in comparison with each other over time. In a sense it reveals your own opinion though, because you would need to personally evaluate whether or not the particular questions I am asking are of value.

In my comment to you I am pointing out that your purchase of 1 million shares suggests you personally believe this company is a good investment. I'd like to know why. It's certainly not from any information which has been publicly released. My theory is that as their advisor you have acted on insider information. In fact from whale's statements it appears to be that NXTinspect will have an ongoing role in making investment decisions with them. From the outside, i've seen nothing noteworthy regarding PHX. In fact the issuer is rude and abrasive to some pretty standard questions. The idea that you would buy a million shares of this asset based on what the common investor knows is mind boggling.

I can see you are putting your name and reputation behind Phoenix. Especially acting in an ongoing role advising them on purchase decisions. Frankly I think this is professional suicide, but if you are willing to watch over them to this extent, why not? I think you should explain to them the concept of public image and what it takes to reassure investors they are not throwing money in the garbage, but don't take that as me telling you what to do. I'm just saying that Phoenix investor relations is garbage, and this alone is usually enough to bring a company down within 6 months.

chanc3r · « **Reply #4 on:** February 28, 2015, 01:49:44 pm »

Thanks for the constructive response printshop, I have added some comments / clarifications.

Quote from: printshop on February 28, 2015, 07:01:30 am

Your point is valid, and your clarifications are welcome. However the 100 point scale I came up with only asks objective questions and does not represent my personal opinion. The scores are only valid in comparison with each other over time. In a sense it reveals your own opinion though, because you would need to personally evaluate whether or not the particular questions I am asking are of value.

Your questions vary in their objectivity and relevance for a newly issued asset, I agree such things are only relevant over time and rely on the person doing the evaluation being able to build relationships with the asset issuers in an environment where people are reluctant to disclose for all sorts of reasons which I also hope will change over time.

Quote

In my comment to you I am pointing out that your purchase of 1 million shares suggests you personally believe this company is a good investment. I'd like to know why. It's certainly not from any information which has been publicly released. My theory is that as their advisor you have acted on insider information. In fact from whale's statements it appears to be that NXTinspect will have an ongoing role in making investment decisions with them. From the outside, i've seen nothing noteworthy regarding PHX. In fact the issuer is rude and abrasive to some pretty standard questions. The idea that you would buy a million shares of this asset based on what the common investor knows is mind boggling.

Can I put some context on my purchase, this asset raised 600k NXT, almost $8k, 1M shares = 100k NXT or $1300, I put the same into LIQUID and DeBune. There is a piece of insider information which I possess which I disclosed before I made the investment "I know who this is" and therefore have some idea of what he does/has done, other than that I am not in the position of any other information which PHX has not already posted.

PHX has chosen to remain anonymous outside of NXTi, that has consequences, the impact on your score being one of them, nothing I can do about that. There isn't a lot of documentation around this like the plan for LIQUID, and in some ways Phoenix is higher risk because of its stated objective, do I wish this were clearer yes and as an investor I will encourage this to happen.

Quote

I can see you are putting your name and reputation behind Phoenix. Especially acting in an ongoing role advising them on purchase decisions. Frankly I think this is professional suicide, but if you are willing to watch over them to this extent, why not? I think you should explain to them the concept of public image and what it takes to reassure investors they are not throwing money in the garbage, but don't take that as me telling you what to do. I'm just saying that Phoenix investor relations is garbage, and this alone is usually enough to bring a company down within 6 months.

I "chanc3r" am not putting my name behind Phoenix other than the investment I made, my disclosure post stated this was not a recommendation to invest.

NXTi will do what it says, it will support and assess opportunities for Phoenix on an engagement by engagement basis, the purchase decision itself always resides with Phoenix.

I am sure over time the Issuer will improve the communication to investors as things settle down and clearly as an investor along with others I will be encouraging this to happen.

j.jaymes · « **Reply #5 on:** February 28, 2015, 07:51:12 pm »

I was wondering what the advantage of buying this one, but seems that first investors bought out in short time then put up for resale at higher price. No dividends for anyone, so any chance to make extra Nxt for investing in project isnt clear. This one for whales only I think, but just me two cents of course. Good luck to all.

printshop · « **Reply #6 on:** March 01, 2015, 06:10:17 am »

Quote from: chanc3r on February 28, 2015, 01:49:44 pm

I "chanc3r" am not putting my name behind Phoenix other than the investment I made, my disclosure post stated this was not a recommendation to invest.

NXTi will do what it says, it will support and assess opportunities for Phoenix on an engagement by engagement basis, the purchase decision itself always resides with Phoenix.

I am sure over time the Issuer will improve the communication to investors as things settle down and clearly as an investor along with others I will be encouraging this to happen.

This is a NXTinspect managed and supported asset. The comment that you are not recommending people to buy or sell is a legal requirement because you are not licensed investment advisors. But that aside your decisions and NXTinspect's decisions will be core deciding factors in the success or failure of Phoenix. If Phoenix succeeds, you will be able to claim a great credit. If Phoenix fails, you will probably be held to that as well. Also your comment above conflicts with what whale said, which is that he will have to approve investment decisions before funds are released; "PHX would need to get my approval before funds can be requested from NXTinspect."

It's not an issue but frankly, NXTinspect does not have a strong history of making correct calls or of "do(ing) what it says". This isn't a potshot, every business has speed bumps starting up including mine. But because of this people will now look at businesses like Phoenix for guidance on what NXTinspect is going to do and how they are going to perform. I'd also like to see you advising other businesses to get a picture of how you are doing, because of course there doesn't seem to be a lot of disclosure from your company -- not saying that is necessarily a bad thing (look at valve and half life 3).

printshop · « **Reply #7 on:** February 05, 2016, 04:09:36 pm »

Quote from: printshop on February 27, 2015, 09:29:07 pm

Phoenix (15610018253699198756) scores:
2015-02-28: +29 (Comments: Primary negatives are poor investor relations, no business plan, and a lack of experience running similar assets. Likely to fail within 6 months.)

UPDATE: Whale broke his shareholder agreement and the asset collapsed not four months later:

Quote from: 80114 on June 01, 2015, 04:33:29 am

ANNOUNCEMENT

Some of you are still yet to sell your PHX. Therefore, I am putting in place a deadline.

June 14 2015 will be the last day you can redeem your PHX. Please ensure you sell your PHX by this date.

The remaining NXT will be in the next NXTinspect dividend.

Whale refused to answer shareholder inquiries about the validity of his actions surrounding fund closure.

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Author Topic: [Phoenix] Phoenix (15610018253699198756) (Read 2875 times)

printshop

[Phoenix] Phoenix (15610018253699198756)

printshop

Re: Phoenix (15610018253699198756)

chanc3r

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printshop

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chanc3r

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j.jaymes

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printshop

Re: Phoenix (15610018253699198756)

printshop

Re: Phoenix (15610018253699198756)