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printshop

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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2015, 03:19:20 pm »

Hi printshop, I bought 80 SafeHash assets on 2/24/2015 and there has been 5 dividend payouts since then.
...
I have not received a single dividend payout during this time as far as I can tell.
I am not trying to accuse anyone of any wrong doing but I am inquiring as to any explanation as to why I have not received any dividends.
I expect there is a good and valid reason but I am just not aware of it, could you please explain?

I assure you that you have received the dividend payments, but since we use the dividend payment feature of the NXT blockchain, these transactions do not appear in the client.

The client devs are aware of this problem and plan to correct it in the future. To verify you have been paid, simply browse the transaction ID which I give when stating I made a payment. If it states that a dividend payment was made as of a certain block #, and you owned shares on that block #, you are guaranteed to have received your dividends. If you watch you would see your balance go up. But because there is no other indication you have been paid it is easy to miss.

Other assets pay dividends manually, so that you have a record of the transfer. However this is prohibitively expensive. It costs hundreds of NXT per payment. We save a lot of money by paying via the blockchain.

So while I admit it is a little inconvenient, it is the best way to preserve value. I can't imagine a fund throwing hundreds of NXT away each month being thought of as managed responsibly.

dolux

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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2015, 06:19:46 pm »

Hi printshop, I bought 80 SafeHash assets on 2/24/2015 and there has been 5 dividend payouts since then.
...
I have not received a single dividend payout during this time as far as I can tell.
I am not trying to accuse anyone of any wrong doing but I am inquiring as to any explanation as to why I have not received any dividends.
I expect there is a good and valid reason but I am just not aware of it, could you please explain?

I assure you that you have received the dividend payments, but since we use the dividend payment feature of the NXT blockchain, these transactions do not appear in the client.

The client devs are aware of this problem and plan to correct it in the future. To verify you have been paid, simply browse the transaction ID which I give when stating I made a payment. If it states that a dividend payment was made as of a certain block #, and you owned shares on that block #, you are guaranteed to have received your dividends. If you watch you would see your balance go up. But because there is no other indication you have been paid it is easy to miss.

Other assets pay dividends manually, so that you have a record of the transfer. However this is prohibitively expensive. It costs hundreds of NXT per payment. We save a lot of money by paying via the blockchain.

So while I admit it is a little inconvenient, it is the best way to preserve value. I can't imagine a fund throwing hundreds of NXT away each month being thought of as managed responsibly.

Hi printshop, I am sorry but I am not able to find any transactions of dividends, I have tried what you have said but to be honest I cannot even be sure that I am doing the search correctly. I am sorry again but you will have to explain what I should be doing in baby step instructions or show me some other way how I can see that these transactions have been made. I am not able to tell by watching my balance as the time has already past and they coincide with other transactions on the same day so I would have just taken the changes as being from them. I realize that this is not an easy situation because I would not like to be paying out 1 nxt for every transaction either but equally I would like to know that I have been paid and at this time I am not easily able to confirm that I have been paid. Sorry about the inconvenience but it is the same this side also.

Thanks.   
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printshop

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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2015, 03:48:12 am »

Hi printshop, I am sorry but I am not able to find any transactions of dividends, I have tried what you have said but to be honest I cannot even be sure that I am doing the search correctly. I am sorry again but you will have to explain what I should be doing in baby step instructions or show me some other way how I can see that these transactions have been made. I am not able to tell by watching my balance as the time has already past and they coincide with other transactions on the same day so I would have just taken the changes as being from them. I realize that this is not an easy situation because I would not like to be paying out 1 nxt for every transaction either but equally I would like to know that I have been paid and at this time I am not easily able to confirm that I have been paid. Sorry about the inconvenience but it is the same this side also.

Thanks.

I'll do what I can to help but remember it's not my job to teach you how to use the client and associated software :) Basically what you do is take the transaction number from one of the payment announcements, such as 16406978533751974694, and enter it into the "Search by ID..." box in the upper left of the client.

You will get a modal popup which states among other things:

a) that it is a Dividend Payment transaction
b) the amount per share
c) the height (ex-date) it was paid for
d) The sender (clickable link to verify it was me who sent it).

This is enough for you to determine whether or not you were paid, since the fact your client can find and process the transaction ID shows it can recognize the payment amount and time and determine your proper balance.

For anything more specific you would need to ask on the client help forum :) Thx~

printshop

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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2015, 05:26:34 am »

Date: 31/03/2015 14:21:55
Transaction ID: 7743193990110885251
Type:   Dividend Payment
Asset Name: SafeHash
Amount Per Share: 0.00529 NXT
Height: 392500

A total of 2400.69722 NXT was distributed among 18 accounts which own a total of 453'818 shares.


I'm hard at work on my kongzi site now. I guess it's time to hit it very hard before the opening of the school. In short I don't want to be bothered and I am very lazy about payments :p I tell myself "Gee it's Tuesday and I didn't make payments yet, I'm slipping... " but the truth is that this attitude has not arisen in isolation, but because the community here has fallen down quite a bit from the excitement that surrounded it a few months ago.

Since Christmas I have noticed an exodus of funds and interest from NXT. The right projects aren't getting financial support and this is causing people to disappear from the community. Frankly I blame the anti-competitive practices which have been employed in the past. If I want to be serious about running a company it is obvious that NXT will not be able to support our aims at all (just from the standpoint of exposure let alone financially). We may have a look at branching out into bitcoin or other cryptocoins this summer after the school is built.

dolux

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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2015, 08:02:13 pm »

Hi printshop,

"INFO
 Type:   Dividend Payment
Asset Name:   SafeHash
Amount Per Share:   0.00529 NXT
Height:   392500
Sender:   NXT-X5EF-HTB2-RLYU-HW8E7"

I click on (Transaction Details) and I get this below:

"Full Hash:   83b57fa7e859756b55c1f1fd44b2dcf08f2ddc61c6d9176067348d937c1f8ac6
Confirmations:   177
Signature Hash:   ec454b171a76397cbadf58e6d0f2a72e2cc9039ae82949b16a4bbbc77844d976
Amount NQT:   0 NXT
transaction_index:   0
ec_block_height:   392500
Block:   14867067135906545874
Type:   2
Fee NQT:   1 NXT
Version:   1
Sender:   17487719788180311437
Timestamp:   42484915
ec_block_id:   14225116975160844323
Subtype:   6
Sender Public Key:   0f28bad1aa94cb67d673074c7f6b6e1d5e56e49c6f94b6c49d07f0235e2e4352
Deadline:   1440
Block Timestamp:   42485119
Sender RS:   NXT-X5EF-HTB2-RLYU-HW8E7
signature:   0e9d0a3038fa4bf53b3fe482c8919aa879e6e5934a336e70660727f4f8896e002de6ee00abecaf94cf46db1279c2f2ce244ff29c3df56eff82a50439ffd22fba
Height:   392510£

The only thing this information tells me is that you made a transaction under Asset Name:   SafeHash.

As far as I can tell I have not recived dividends as well as you not being able to give me any confirmation that I can verify of any transaction of dividends to my account. I cannot see any increase in my account balance since this last notice of dividend payout. I only have your word for it, which I am sorry is not enough, as I do not know you in any way, you could be a paradigm flux for all I know, LOL ( I do consider that it is your job to show verifiable confirmation that people have been sent and recived dividends) so I have dumped my assets and if at any time I get some confirmation that I have been paid dividends then I will gladly reconsider buying assets again, as well as come back to this thread to update it with any new information.

What you write about below is caused by issues like the one I have just posted.

[b I guess it's time to hit it very hard before the opening of the school. In short I don't want to be bothered and I am very lazy about payments :p I tell myself "Gee it's Tuesday and I didn't make payments yet, I'm slipping... " but the truth is that this attitude has not arisen in isolation, but because the community here has fallen down quite a bit from the excitement that surrounded it a few months ago.

Since Christmas I have noticed an exodus of funds and interest from NXT. The right projects aren't getting financial support and this is causing people to disappear from the community. Frankly I blame the anti-competitive practices which have been employed in the past. If I want to be serious about running a company it is obvious that NXT will not be able to support our aims at all (just from the standpoint of exposure let alone financially). We may have a look at branching out into bitcoin or other cryptocoins this summer after the school is built.


"Over the bleached bones and jumbled residues of numerous civilizations are written the pathetic words ‘Too Late’.” Martin Luther King Jr.

Thanks.
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blackyblack1

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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2015, 08:08:51 pm »

I do consider that it is your job to show verifiable confirmation that people have been sent and recived dividends
https://nxtblocks.info/#section/txid/7743193990110885251
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dolux

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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2015, 08:33:45 pm »

I do consider that it is your job to show verifiable confirmation that people have been sent and recived dividends
https://nxtblocks.info/#section/txid/7743193990110885251

That shows me dividends where sent but it is not showing me who they where sent to so there is no verification that they where received and unless I have to wait for 1440 confirmations for this transaction to show up in my wallet then I did not receive any dividends and if they do show up I will gladly come back to verify that they have. 

And this is why people have issues with NXT.
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blackyblack1

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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2015, 08:44:09 pm »

I do consider that it is your job to show verifiable confirmation that people have been sent and recived dividends
https://nxtblocks.info/#section/txid/7743193990110885251

That shows me dividends where sent but it is not showing me who they where sent to so there is no verification that they where received and unless I have to wait for 1440 confirmations for this transaction to show up in my wallet then I did not receive any dividends and if they do show up I will gladly come back to verify that they have. 

And this is why people have issues with NXT.
There is no recipient in such kind of transactions and I do not know what do you expect to see after 1440 confirmations. This transaction will never appear in your wallet but it is enforced by the blockchain that you have received your money if you hold any SafeHash asset at the given block height.
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dolux

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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2015, 09:42:47 pm »

I do consider that it is your job to show verifiable confirmation that people have been sent and recived dividends
https://nxtblocks.info/#section/txid/7743193990110885251

That shows me dividends where sent but it is not showing me who they where sent to so there is no verification that they where received and unless I have to wait for 1440 confirmations for this transaction to show up in my wallet then I did not receive any dividends and if they do show up I will gladly come back to verify that they have. 

And this is why people have issues with NXT.
There is no recipient in such kind of transactions and I do not know what do you expect to see after 1440 confirmations. This transaction will never appear in your wallet but it is enforced by the blockchain that you have received your money if you hold any SafeHash asset at the given block height.

Another reason why people have got problems with NXT.
Money will not show up in my wallet but it will be on the block chain, so is this ghost money?
Anyway it is not money it's NXT and how do I know that I have it if it does not show up in my wallet?
If it does not show up in my wallet how do I actually have it?
How do I actually spend it if I don't know it is there?
What is the point?

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jl777

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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2015, 09:56:50 pm »

I do consider that it is your job to show verifiable confirmation that people have been sent and recived dividends
https://nxtblocks.info/#section/txid/7743193990110885251

That shows me dividends where sent but it is not showing me who they where sent to so there is no verification that they where received and unless I have to wait for 1440 confirmations for this transaction to show up in my wallet then I did not receive any dividends and if they do show up I will gladly come back to verify that they have. 

And this is why people have issues with NXT.
There is no recipient in such kind of transactions and I do not know what do you expect to see after 1440 confirmations. This transaction will never appear in your wallet but it is enforced by the blockchain that you have received your money if you hold any SafeHash asset at the given block height.

Another reason why people have got problems with NXT.
Money will not show up in my wallet but it will be on the block chain, so is this ghost money?
Anyway it is not money it's NXT and how do I know that I have it if it does not show up in my wallet?
If it does not show up in my wallet how do I actually have it?
How do I actually spend it if I don't know it is there?
What is the point?
your account was credited, there just isnt a separate transaction record for it (yet)
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dolux

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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2015, 09:59:59 pm »

I do consider that it is your job to show verifiable confirmation that people have been sent and recived dividends
https://nxtblocks.info/#section/txid/7743193990110885251

That shows me dividends where sent but it is not showing me who they where sent to so there is no verification that they where received and unless I have to wait for 1440 confirmations for this transaction to show up in my wallet then I did not receive any dividends and if they do show up I will gladly come back to verify that they have. 

And this is why people have issues with NXT.
There is no recipient in such kind of transactions and I do not know what do you expect to see after 1440 confirmations. This transaction will never appear in your wallet but it is enforced by the blockchain that you have received your money if you hold any SafeHash asset at the given block height.

Another reason why people have got problems with NXT.
Money will not show up in my wallet but it will be on the block chain, so is this ghost money?
Anyway it is not money it's NXT and how do I know that I have it if it does not show up in my wallet?
If it does not show up in my wallet how do I actually have it?
How do I actually spend it if I don't know it is there?
What is the point?
your account was credited, there just isnt a separate transaction record for it (yet)

If my account has been credited then why do I not see it in my wallet?
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dolux

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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2015, 10:01:37 pm »

To rephrase that, why do I not see the NXT dividend in my wallet?
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jl777

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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #52 on: March 31, 2015, 10:28:10 pm »

To rephrase that, why do I not see the NXT dividend in my wallet?
you did not get the transaction directly, so the wallet would have to directly check for all dividend transactions done by everyone and see if you had any assets that would have gotten a dividend

the alternative is for a lot of dividends to not be sent out as it is less than the 1 NXT txfee
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printshop

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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2015, 01:40:10 am »

I click on (Transaction Details) and I get this below:

"ec_block_height:   392500...
Type:   2...
Subtype:   6...

The only thing this information tells me is that you made a transaction under Asset Name:   SafeHash.

No, that's incorrect; you know it was type 2 subtype 6, and you know the height was 392500. Also, this is not information from the client; I told you to look it up in the official client which correctly shows subtype 6 as a Dividend Payment and shows the payment amount.

As far as I can tell I have not recived dividends as well as you not being able to give me any confirmation that I can verify of any transaction of dividends to my account. I cannot see any increase in my account balance since this last notice of dividend payout. I only have your word for it, which I am sorry is not enough, as I do not know you in any way, you could be a paradigm flux for all I know, LOL ( I do consider that it is your job to show verifiable confirmation that people have been sent and recived dividends) so I have dumped my assets and if at any time I get some confirmation that I have been paid dividends then I will gladly reconsider buying assets again, as well as come back to this thread to update it with any new information.

I could give you all the information in the world, but if you don't listen to it then you will still not understand :) Go look up the transaction in the official client and you will see. As for it being "my job" you are right -- I did give you the transaction ID number which shows you have been paid. So my end of the bargain has been fufilled.

SafeHash exists to let you sell out at a fair value any time you want. The fact you can sell your shares for essentially what you paid for it at any time and feel comfortable and easy about doing that is a very special thing which I am proud of. This is the best deal this community has. I'm happy you enjoyed your time in SafeHash, and if you ever figure out how to check those transaction IDs you would be more than welcome back :)

dolux

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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2015, 01:45:41 am »

To rephrase that, why do I not see the NXT dividend in my wallet?
you did not get the transaction directly, so the wallet would have to directly check for all dividend transactions done by everyone and see if you had any assets that would have gotten a dividend

the alternative is for a lot of dividends to not be sent out as it is less than the 1 NXT txfee

Thanks for the explanation, now I know why I have not seen payment in my wallet, because it is probably less than the 1 NXT txfee and that means I have not been paid just like I said in the first place, ha, thanks again for the clarity.
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dolux

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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2015, 01:56:16 am »

I click on (Transaction Details) and I get this below:

"ec_block_height:   392500...
Type:   2...
Subtype:   6...

The only thing this information tells me is that you made a transaction under Asset Name:   SafeHash.

No, that's incorrect; you know it was type 2 subtype 6, and you know the height was 392500. Also, this is not information from the client; I told you to look it up in the official client which correctly shows subtype 6 as a Dividend Payment and shows the payment amount.

As far as I can tell I have not recived dividends as well as you not being able to give me any confirmation that I can verify of any transaction of dividends to my account. I cannot see any increase in my account balance since this last notice of dividend payout. I only have your word for it, which I am sorry is not enough, as I do not know you in any way, you could be a paradigm flux for all I know, LOL ( I do consider that it is your job to show verifiable confirmation that people have been sent and recived dividends) so I have dumped my assets and if at any time I get some confirmation that I have been paid dividends then I will gladly reconsider buying assets again, as well as come back to this thread to update it with any new information.

I could give you all the information in the world, but if you don't listen to it then you will still not understand :) Go look up the transaction in the official client and you will see. As for it being "my job" you are right -- I did give you the transaction ID number which shows you have been paid. So my end of the bargain has been fufilled.

SafeHash exists to let you sell out at a fair value any time you want. The fact you can sell your shares for essentially what you paid for it at any time and feel comfortable and easy about doing that is a very special thing which I am proud of. This is the best deal this community has. I'm happy you enjoyed your time in SafeHash, and if you ever figure out how to check those transaction IDs you would be more than welcome back :)

I won't bother, happy days. ;D ;D ;D
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jl777

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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #56 on: April 01, 2015, 02:27:53 am »

To rephrase that, why do I not see the NXT dividend in my wallet?
you did not get the transaction directly, so the wallet would have to directly check for all dividend transactions done by everyone and see if you had any assets that would have gotten a dividend

the alternative is for a lot of dividends to not be sent out as it is less than the 1 NXT txfee

Thanks for the explanation, now I know why I have not seen payment in my wallet, because it is probably less than the 1 NXT txfee and that means I have not been paid just like I said in the first place, ha, thanks again for the clarity.
you probably have been paid. That is what I am saying, the dividend mechanism costs 1 NXT and makes 1 transaction in the asset issuer's account. It could go to 1 or thousands of accounts, even for as small amount as 0.00000001 NXT

there just isnt a blockchain record of all the dividend payments, but it can be calculated based on the height, asset and amount
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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #57 on: April 01, 2015, 02:52:48 am »

To rephrase that, why do I not see the NXT dividend in my wallet?
you did not get the transaction directly, so the wallet would have to directly check for all dividend transactions done by everyone and see if you had any assets that would have gotten a dividend

the alternative is for a lot of dividends to not be sent out as it is less than the 1 NXT txfee

Thanks for the explanation, now I know why I have not seen payment in my wallet, because it is probably less than the 1 NXT txfee and that means I have not been paid just like I said in the first place, ha, thanks again for the clarity.
you probably have been paid. That is what I am saying, the dividend mechanism costs 1 NXT and makes 1 transaction in the asset issuer's account. It could go to 1 or thousands of accounts, even for as small amount as 0.00000001 NXT

there just isnt a blockchain record of all the dividend payments, but it can be calculated based on the height, asset and amount

I am not getting you, if I am paid 0.00000001 NXT for example then surely it should show up in my coin balance added to what was already there shouldn't it?

Now if it is somewhere else then it is not in my wallet, even if it is on the block chain belonging to me and I cannot see it is there then I am sorry but to me that means I might as well not have it because I can't use it if I don't know it's there plus when will I get to actually know it is there.

Thanks.
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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #58 on: April 01, 2015, 03:09:40 am »

To rephrase that, why do I not see the NXT dividend in my wallet?
you did not get the transaction directly, so the wallet would have to directly check for all dividend transactions done by everyone and see if you had any assets that would have gotten a dividend

the alternative is for a lot of dividends to not be sent out as it is less than the 1 NXT txfee

Thanks for the explanation, now I know why I have not seen payment in my wallet, because it is probably less than the 1 NXT txfee and that means I have not been paid just like I said in the first place, ha, thanks again for the clarity.
you probably have been paid. That is what I am saying, the dividend mechanism costs 1 NXT and makes 1 transaction in the asset issuer's account. It could go to 1 or thousands of accounts, even for as small amount as 0.00000001 NXT

there just isnt a blockchain record of all the dividend payments, but it can be calculated based on the height, asset and amount

I am not getting you, if I am paid 0.00000001 NXT for example then surely it should show up in my coin balance added to what was already there shouldn't it?

Now if it is somewhere else then it is not in my wallet, even if it is on the block chain belonging to me and I cannot see it is there then I am sorry but to me that means I might as well not have it because I can't use it if I don't know it's there plus when will I get to actually know it is there.

Thanks.
it should be reflected in your balance. do you keep track of your wallet balance to the satoshi? if you do, you should see it higher than expected from the transactions you see in your list of transactions.

in other words if your wallet balance went up by 0.00000012 NXT would you have noticed it?
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Re: SafeHash
« Reply #59 on: April 01, 2015, 04:26:00 am »

To rephrase that, why do I not see the NXT dividend in my wallet?
you did not get the transaction directly, so the wallet would have to directly check for all dividend transactions done by everyone and see if you had any assets that would have gotten a dividend

the alternative is for a lot of dividends to not be sent out as it is less than the 1 NXT txfee

Thanks for the explanation, now I know why I have not seen payment in my wallet, because it is probably less than the 1 NXT txfee and that means I have not been paid just like I said in the first place, ha, thanks again for the clarity.
you probably have been paid. That is what I am saying, the dividend mechanism costs 1 NXT and makes 1 transaction in the asset issuer's account. It could go to 1 or thousands of accounts, even for as small amount as 0.00000001 NXT

there just isnt a blockchain record of all the dividend payments, but it can be calculated based on the height, asset and amount

I am not getting you, if I am paid 0.00000001 NXT for example then surely it should show up in my coin balance added to what was already there shouldn't it?

Now if it is somewhere else then it is not in my wallet, even if it is on the block chain belonging to me and I cannot see it is there then I am sorry but to me that means I might as well not have it because I can't use it if I don't know it's there plus when will I get to actually know it is there.

Thanks.
it should be reflected in your balance. do you keep track of your wallet balance to the satoshi? if you do, you should see it higher than expected from the transactions you see in your list of transactions.

in other words if your wallet balance went up by 0.00000012 NXT would you have noticed it?

Yes for the past few days I had been keeping a record of my balance to the last sat but it's all by the by now as I deleted them after may last post to print shop as I felt he just wasn't trying to be helpful.

Happy days to you and thanks.
   

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