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Fry's Instant Transactions Proposal Number 3  
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Author Topic: Fry's Instant Transactions Proposal Number 3  (Read 1963 times)

Fry

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Fry's Instant Transactions Proposal Number 3
« on: May 11, 2014, 01:21:25 am »

Required protocol changes:

1.) Possibility to set Account into a mode where outgoing transactions for this specific Account can only be added in blocks that have been forged by a specific forging entity
2.) Possibility to set Account into a mode that limits the number of outgoing NXT to other accounts (for transacations and contracts) per block
3.) Possibility to create a contract that pays some nxt to an account if a specific transaction is not included in the blockchain within lets say a week.

1. preperation:
1.1. The forging entity FE set the forgin account into a state as described by (2)
1.2. Alice (wants later to intiate the Instant Transaction) sets her Account into a state as descibed by (1) so that only foging entity FE can add transactions to the blockchain for her.

2. Now Alice wants to pay Bob.
2.1. Alice creates transaction that pays Bob the desired NXT for her account and sends the transaction to the  forgin entity FE.
2.2.  Forgin entity FE creates a contract transaction as descibed in 3 that guarantees Bob to pay the NXT if the transaction that Alice created does not confirm.
2.3. Bob receives both transactions either from Alice or from the network. He checks that the contract transaction wasn't doublespend, if not jet done he now relases both transactions to the network.
2.4. Bob can now hand over whatever Alice payed for.

Advantage over BCNexts propsed scheme: Alice can now instantly move all coins she has (At least if the forging entity FE has much more coins in its account which can be assumed)
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mczarnek

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Re: Fry's Instant Transactions Proposal Number 3
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2014, 07:00:38 pm »

Good to see a new user that's popping up all over this forum that's thinking through these issues :)

Couple things, keep in mind that it takes time to reliably switch from one mode to another.  This switch would have to done similar to the way a transaction is included in the blockchain. So someone would have to plan ahead of time by 10 blocks or so to switch modes.  Also, I don't think we can assume that a forging account has enough to cover every double spend it's allowed through.. if this method is implemented and we go forward with that assumption, then the forger could gang up with many people to allow through a number of dishonest proposals within the same block.  This could be done by a Bitcoiner trying to make the network appear unreliable or a government, or credit card company, etc.  Needs to be less trustworthy than that.

To be honest, still a little fuzzy following your proposal all the switches and changes that have to be made.


Have you checked out my proposal?

Would be interested in hearing thoughts:
https://nxtforum.org/instant-transactions/instant-transaction-proposal-1089/
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Fry

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Re: Fry's Instant Transactions Proposal Number 3
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2014, 01:20:28 am »

Also, I don't think we can assume that a forging account has enough to cover every double spend it's allowed through..
The forging account could freely choose which transaction he insures and thereby makes instant.
So he can limit the amount of NXT that can be transfered instantly and that need to be insured.
He could even reqire a percentage fee which would make the attept to take down the instant payment service very expensive.
Also i think there would be some kind of a trust relation between the forger and Alice.
If Alice would ever attapemt to make so many instant payments that other merchants don't accept the insurance contracts he creates anymore he would not insure any of Alice's payments in future anymore.

if this method is implemented and we go forward with that assumption, then the forger could gang up with many people to allow through a number of dishonest proposals

The Merchant will refuse the instant transaction if the Forgin entity has signed to many of these insurance contracts. Thats what i mean with "He checks that the contract transaction wasn't doublespend"


Have you checked out my proposal?

Would be interested in hearing thoughts:
https://nxtforum.org/instant-transactions/instant-transaction-proposal-1089/

This will be my next Post :-)
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mczarnek

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Re: Fry's Instant Transactions Proposal Number 3
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2014, 02:55:21 am »

Interesting.  btw, I spent some time looking at how Ripple does it, I think it's something along these lines.  Something to do with IOUs.

This is not related to instant transactions but fyi, here is a nice video explaining how Ripple works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj1QVb1vlC0

I was calling for a similar table to keep track of forgers at some point.. still not totally opposed.. but I'm getting off track.

Regarding your idea:
Now you're proposal, yes but will even the majority of the forgers account have enough nxt to cover all the instant transactions that take place during their block?

It's an interesting idea, though I don't like the complexity of having to choose a forger ahead of time who might not forge during the next week.  It'd be risky to accept these instant transactions in case you don't forge.  I suspect if you make an ROI it could work.

I understand that without this, a forger could get another forger to double spend for him but I don't like the idea of only one forger being allowed to approve transactions.  And also has the downside that if you do restrict it to only one forger, you really could be waiting for a week before your transaction is processed and it wouldn't be very instant.

Good to hear from you!
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