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What should be the focus of Nxt?
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Marc De Mesel

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What should be the focus of Nxt?
« on: March 31, 2016, 10:16:27 am »

My 2 nxts:

Nxt has been heading towards a very obvious doom since mid-2014, that is indisputable. SOMETHING has to change, I don't think anyone doubts this anymore, however before radically changing Nxt or even entertaining the idea of a IPO 2.0 the question that should be answered first and foremost is this: WHAT exactly is Nxt's vision? WHO is going to use NXT and for WHAT?

Ethereum is for smart contracts = easy to underststand and easy for businesses to implement
Z-Cash is for secure and anonymous transactions = easy to understand and easy to build use-cases for
IOTA is for micro/nano-transactions and data transfer = easy to underststand and easy for businesses to implement

Nxt is currently an amalgam of 10 different things. It tries to be this univeral solution, which by all laws of engineering and design is impossible without severe trade offs in every department, meaning that you end up with the ultimate subpar solution. So IMO the IPO discussion is premature, first and foremost there should be a discussion about Nxt's actual utility and what market it aims to be a solution in.

Nxt 2.0, while I haven't had time to dig deep into it, seems to me to be a frankenstein solution with no clear goal. Nxt development could learn a lot from iterative development with real life input, rather than these grandeur 1 year long theoretical roadmaps that build a software that might have zero real life utility.

Absolutely on point!


I propose:

Nxt is for decentralised asset exchange = easy to understand and easy for businesses to implement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjYl50Q_1Z0


Anyone else think another focus would be better?

farl4bit

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2016, 10:25:06 am »

I said it in the other post:

Nxt is currently an amalgam of 10 different things. It tries to be this univeral solution, which by all laws of engineering and design is impossible without severe trade offs in every department, meaning that you end up with the ultimate subpar solution. So IMO the IPO discussion is premature, first and foremost there should be a discussion about Nxt's actual utility and what market problem it aims to be a 10x solution for.

The Unique Selling Point for Nxt is that it is a Crypto Platform for all decentralized possibilities.

I don't want to buy Dash for anonymous transactions, Peercoin for staking, Bitcoin for transactions, Blabla coin for storage, Bla bla bla coin for messaging over the blockchain, bla bla bla bla coin for sending products over the blockchain, etc.. I get tired even thinking about it.  :(

I like Nxt because I only have to buy one coin, don't have to dive in all the different coins and forums. Business don't like that too. They want a easy simple tool for their blockchain solutions. That is a real strong quality of Nxt and none other coin has this.   :)
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2016, 10:34:20 am »

I said it in the other post:

Nxt is currently an amalgam of 10 different things. It tries to be this univeral solution, which by all laws of engineering and design is impossible without severe trade offs in every department, meaning that you end up with the ultimate subpar solution. So IMO the IPO discussion is premature, first and foremost there should be a discussion about Nxt's actual utility and what market problem it aims to be a 10x solution for.

The Unique Selling Point for Nxt is that it is a Crypto Platform for all decentralized possibilities.

I don't want to buy Dash for anonymous transactions, Peercoin for staking, Bitcoin for transactions, Blabla coin for storage, Bla bla bla coin for messaging over the blockchain, bla bla bla bla coin for sending products over the blockchain, etc.. I get tired even thinking about it.  :(

I like Nxt because I only have to buy one coin, don't have to dive in all the different coins and forums. Business don't like that too. They want a easy simple tool for their blockchain solutions. That is a real strong quality of Nxt and none other coin has this.   :)

I shared your vision of 'decentralize all the things' but how is that working out?

For what do you use Nxt today?


Anyway, want to hear if anyone else has a better focus to propose. For example, just a platform to build decentralised apps on, is that a viable idea? would it be a better focus than the asset exchange?

lurker10

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2016, 10:37:08 am »

a platform to build decentralised apps on, is that a viable idea? would it be a better focus than the asset exchange?

What is the real life application of decentralized apps?
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2016, 10:38:47 am »

a platform to build decentralised apps on, is that a viable idea? would it be a better focus than the asset exchange?

What is the real life application of decentralized apps?

apps that are 'verboten' in certain countries, and risk being attacked by government agents, may prefer to build it decentralized?

lurker10

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2016, 10:43:34 am »

a platform to build decentralised apps on, is that a viable idea? would it be a better focus than the asset exchange?

What is the real life application of decentralized apps?

apps that are 'verboten' in certain countries, and risk being attacked by government agents, may prefer to build it decentralized?

It's much cheaper and easier to move them to other countries and run in a centralized way. Examples of apps would be useful. The thing is nobody can give good examples of these apps that solve real life problems.

Asset exchange solves the problem of permissionless crowdfunding. There is a drawback of the NXT currency value fluctuation but this drawback will be less, takes time.
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Damelon

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2016, 10:45:04 am »

a platform to build decentralised apps on, is that a viable idea? would it be a better focus than the asset exchange?

What is the real life application of decentralized apps?

apps that are 'verboten' in certain countries, and risk being attacked by government agents, may prefer to build it decentralized?

I like the DApps approach, myself, but would look for other pools of customers.

The anarchist/libertarian pool is not all that large, aligns you with some really questionable and sometimes downright weird and destructive people and also means you are opening up the whole "what is illegal" discussion.

I like "disruption" in general much better: open up things that are now bottlenecked but don't have to be (voting, kadaster, registration) and work from there. There is a lot of value there and it also does some significant good.

Efficiency and cost reduction!
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2016, 10:45:28 am »

a platform to build decentralised apps on, is that a viable idea? would it be a better focus than the asset exchange?

What is the real life application of decentralized apps?

apps that are 'verboten' in certain countries, and risk being attacked by government agents, may prefer to build it decentralized?

It's much cheaper and easier to move them to other countries and run in a centralized way. Examples of apps would be useful. The thing is nobody can give good examples of these apps that solve real life problems.

Asset exchange solves the problem of permissionless crowdfunding. There is a drawback of the NXT currency value fluctuation but this drawback will be less, takes time.

Good point, confirms my belief to start focusing on the asset exchange.

MrCluster87

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2016, 10:50:51 am »

If you can convince this dude to build his start up ontop of Nxt platform, it would be a clear "real problem" solution:

Arcade City: Decentralized, Blockchain-Based Answer to Uber: http://cointelegraph.com/news/arcade-city-decentralized-blockchain-based-answer-to-uber

lurker10

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2016, 10:53:25 am »

start focusing on the asset exchange.

The asset exchange is functional, the Nxt 2.0 design in my understanding should allow to ease some friction (smaller fees, faster blocks).

Aggressive marketing and tech polishing is useless now. People will not use it much because the NXT currency value is fluctuating a lot, not enough liquidity. People will use it when the valuation is much higher. The valuation will be higher when trust in centralized institutions is on a steep downward slope. Euro and USD are not diluted enough for people to actively look for alternatives. Mostly geeks care about crypto, that's the problem.
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Triangle

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2016, 11:06:03 am »

If you can convince this dude to build his start up ontop of Nxt platform, it would be a clear "real problem" solution:

Arcade City: Decentralized, Blockchain-Based Answer to Uber: http://cointelegraph.com/news/arcade-city-decentralized-blockchain-based-answer-to-uber

Personally I think their business model is hugely wtf. "Let's get rid of the middle man by being the middle man!" genius. Not to mention their insanely flawed idea of running a token sale for this kind of service, and promising those who buy 'life time of free rides', which makes no mathematical sense whatsoever.
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farl4bit

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2016, 11:38:37 am »

a platform to build decentralised apps on, is that a viable idea? would it be a better focus than the asset exchange?

What is the real life application of decentralized apps?

apps that are 'verboten' in certain countries, and risk being attacked by government agents, may prefer to build it decentralized?

It's much cheaper and easier to move them to other countries and run in a centralized way. Examples of apps would be useful. The thing is nobody can give good examples of these apps that solve real life problems.

Asset exchange solves the problem of permissionless crowdfunding. There is a drawback of the NXT currency value fluctuation but this drawback will be less, takes time.

Good point, confirms my belief to start focusing on the asset exchange.

In Nxt 2.0 the Asset Exchange will be more powerful, because people can trade assets to assets if I am correct.
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2016, 12:31:27 pm »

Go on with the scalability issue: https://youtu.be/r7GVVk8v2Ik?t=9m2s

We need to keep innovating.

Exactly !
Every software company that I worked for always had two levels of products:
(1) Mature and stable products which generate most of the revenue. These were still developed and maintain to some degree.
(2) Next generation innovative products which included high risk unproven technology.

There is always some tension between the team who maintain (1) and the team that develops (2) and there are always conflicts over limited resources.
However in almost every case the team working on the new tech (2) is getting more of the companies' resources and the team working on (1) is gradually getting smaller or migrate to work on (2).

The reason is, that potential investors that look from outside on Software companies know that software is a fast moving target, today's successful business can be obsolete a year from now. So it is crucial for a software company to continue to innovate no matter what, even if this involves high risk.

The analogy for NXT is that we cannot stagnate on NXT 1.x and we cannot focus all our resources on a single feature, which happens to be somewhat successful at the moment like AE.
We have to become a one stop shop for blockchain applications and for this we have to be able to scale.

Here is my vision: "NXT a one stop shop for decentralized applications"

Could you elaborate on your vision?

What kind of customers would we have? Why would they come to us?

How would we make money?

How would it raise the value of Nxt, the coin?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 12:34:31 pm by Marc De Mesel »
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JohnHolmes

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2016, 12:35:50 pm »


I propose:

Nxt is for decentralised asset exchange = easy to understand and easy for businesses to implement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjYl50Q_1Z0


Anyone else think another focus would be better?

I think we are drilling down to the essence here. Good job everyone :)

What is the problem we need to solve? Future funding for devs & marketing

What is the best way to get more funding? Not an IPO that dilutes existing holdings and would forever kill trust, and so NXT, so we need a new solution.

I ask 'what industry/market is NXT actually in?' This seems like a stupid question, but is it? I don't know now, I thought it was 'decentralised crypto currency platform', but maybe that isn't totally correct.

Let me explain by an example - Stewart Butterfield thought he was in the game development industry, but realised his game wasn't very good, but the photo sharing feature was, so he created Flickr instead, which he sold to Yahoo. Later he left Yahoo and went back to game development, but that game wasn't successful either, but he realised the communication 'tool' they developed for team communication was really cool, and he realised he was actually in the 'communication tool' business, which became Slack. So both Flickr and Slack started as failed games, but became two very successful products/services in completely different industries and markets.

Is NXT actually in the crypto currency platform space? If that guys football betting asset suddenly went viral and attracted 5 million users, wouldn't NXT become a decentralized sports betting platform, just like Flickr and Slack came from failing games.

I think the asset exchange is THE feature we have that's unique, so why not use it to raise money instead of the IPO.

Then we have more time to work out what's going to work best, which is probably the asset exchange, but could be something none of us can see yet. If one asset on NXT went viral ALL NXT hodlers would do well, even if that one successful asset became the dominant use case in the minds of new users.
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Riker

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2016, 01:26:52 pm »

Hi Marc,

To answer this really quickly without too much detail.

Could you elaborate on your vision?

Whenever I sign a document and fax it, swipe my credit card, turn on my car, unlock my house, vote in a poll or signon on to a web site I think about a use case for NXT.
Every day to day task which currently relies on a middle man or on a physical token is a potential use case for NXT.

Quote
What kind of customers would we have? Why would they come to us?

Everyone, they won't even know that they are using NXT.

Quote
How would we make money?

As a Java developer I don't consider myself an authority on this subject.

Quote
How would it raise the value of Nxt, the coin?

By thinking for the long run, by embracing change and by working together.
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Marc De Mesel

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2016, 04:41:51 pm »

Let me explain by an example - Stewart Butterfield thought he was in the game development industry, but realised his game wasn't very good, but the photo sharing feature was, so he created Flickr instead, which he sold to Yahoo. Later he left Yahoo and went back to game development, but that game wasn't successful either, but he realised the communication 'tool' they developed for team communication was really cool, and he realised he was actually in the 'communication tool' business, which became Slack. So both Flickr and Slack started as failed games, but became two very successful products/services in completely different industries and markets.

Is NXT actually in the crypto currency platform space? If that guys football betting asset suddenly went viral and attracted 5 million users, wouldn't NXT become a decentralized sports betting platform, just like Flickr and Slack came from failing games.

I think the asset exchange is THE feature we have that's unique, so why not use it to raise money instead of the IPO.

Then we have more time to work out what's going to work best, which is probably the asset exchange, but could be something none of us can see yet. If one asset on NXT went viral ALL NXT hodlers would do well, even if that one successful asset became the dominant use case in the minds of new users.

I love that example :)

What a genius, indeed we need to be open to switch.

I think the devs did a great job in shooting at different markets and see what sticks.


We got something that sticked, the asset exchange, but they seem to not like it and want to shoot some more to other markets.

I however, have lost enough money, and am ready to embrace the asset exchange. I think we have a real edge there, great to see you think so too.

I think we can already start to ask higher fees there but once we really focus on it, we can build a great business economy.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 06:49:14 pm by Marc De Mesel »
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LibertyNow

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2016, 06:16:16 pm »

LQD is one of the top assets and has paid the most NXT dividends out then any other asset.  The reason LQD is still on NXT despite the community's constant teen drama, seemingly higher than normal amount of scammers and unending mostly unnecessary API changes is because NXT still has the best asset exchange interface. 

I've done a fair amount of research and it's the easiest crypto to trade tokens on and distribute dividends.  No other crypto comes close.  We already have our niche, there's no need to pursue anything else.  Let's just keep making the AE better and more people will come.  If there wasn't so much uncertainty right now and the devs would stop with the ADD constantly changing code shit, we'd be double the current price already.

In my opinion our focus should be:

1) AE security for newbs (2FA or something...sorry, no ideas here, this is a tough nut to crap, but will be worth it if we can)
2) Protection against stupid accidental trades (warning, you're currently trying to pay 100x what the asset is currently trading for, are you sure you want to do this?)
3) Scripts or addons that make it super easy for a company to quickly get their token reserved and listed (click this button to automatically convert your 1 BTC to NXT, register the following asset ____, and list it starting at x price)

LibertyNow
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devlux

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2016, 06:32:40 pm »

a platform to build decentralised apps on, is that a viable idea? would it be a better focus than the asset exchange?

What is the real life application of decentralized apps?

Anything that can benefit from massive paralleliism  such as scatter/gather, map/reduce and most forms of AI.
This is not a crypto currency, but it is a dapp platform...  http://spark.apache.org/  it's java, anything that could run in that could run in NXT if NXT imported the lib and then exposed it to the scripting engine.

There is literally no reason that Nashorn which is a javascript platform built into Java8, could not serve as both a smart contracts platform and dapp platform.
A few thousand lines of code to protect the core from random scripts doing really bad shit.  And you would have a more than acceptable platform for it.

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JanSako

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2016, 06:43:06 pm »

I agree that AE is the most distinctive and useful feature of NXT. It is what brought me here and made me stick with NXT.

I make my money elsewhere, bring a little of it to NXT, and after a year and half of lurking I started an asset too (see my sig). Like LibertyNow said, it is real easy to issue an asset, same for paying dividends (or interest, in my case).

I know crowdfunding platforms are a dime a dozen, but the size of that market is incomparable with NXT's current capitalization. Capture a little more, and sooner or later we will hit a jackpot with the next 'Unicorn' (look it up).

I understand what the core devs aim for all the new features; 'if you build them, they will come', but they already built it, and here we are!

Don't make us go somewhere else please.
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devlux

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Re: What should be the focus of Nxt?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2016, 07:01:24 pm »

I agree that AE is the most distinctive and useful feature of NXT. It is what brought me here and made me stick with NXT.

I make my money elsewhere, bring a little of it to NXT, and after a year and half of lurking I started an asset too (see my sig). Like LibertyNow said, it is real easy to issue an asset, same for paying dividends (or interest, in my case).

I know crowdfunding platforms are a dime a dozen, but the size of that market is incomparable with NXT's current capitalization. Capture a little more, and sooner or later we will hit a jackpot with the next 'Unicorn' (look it up).

I understand what the core devs aim for all the new features; 'if you build them, they will come', but they already built it, and here we are!

Don't make us go somewhere else please.

Everyone do me a favor please...   when you have an NXT asset you would like people to buy, add "NXT:assetid" to your sig.
I've got a cryptowallet, browser plugin that I'm adding NXT support for.  Right now it can detect payment addresses and add them to it's address book.  Add the tag to your sig and I'll add a "crowdfund" tab that automatically loads the asset in, so people can buy it right there in their browser, no need to switch to a wallet.

I'll link the wallet as soon as some bugs are worked out.  But it would be handy to have you guys adopting some standard I can use to detect those assets.
I just updated my sig to show how it's done.  Do that and your asset will be in the plugin for everyone who runs it.
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