Nxt Forum

Nxt Discussion => Nxt General Discussion => Topic started by: Come-from-Beyond on May 29, 2014, 09:29:29 am

Title: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on May 29, 2014, 09:29:29 am
What feature to add after Monetary System?

Phasing - part of Account Control, can be used like Multisig, includes 2-phase payments.
Mixing - mixing based on CoinShuffle (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=567625.msg6370451#msg6370451) approach.
Service Providing - will allow to provide off-chain services for subscription payments (or for free).
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: ChuckOne on May 29, 2014, 09:33:39 am
About phasing:

Why only 2 phases? Can it be used to cascade to n phases?
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on May 29, 2014, 09:35:01 am
About phasing:

Why only 2 phases? Can it be used to cascade to n phases?

If u add more than 1 supervising account.
Yes, cascading can be used.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: ChuckOne on May 29, 2014, 09:36:23 am
Alright.

Supervising sounds somewhat strange in terms of trust. Would not Escrow have better associations?
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on May 29, 2014, 09:39:54 am
Alright.

Supervising sounds somewhat strange in terms of trust. Would not Escrow have better associations?

Imagine that one account belongs to a kid and two other accounts belong to his parents. Depending on settings the kid needs one or both the parents to approve his transactions. Escrow assumes that an escrow agent must be trusted. In Phasing trust is not necessary.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Fatih87SK on May 29, 2014, 09:40:53 am
Ehmmmm I pick Phasing.

Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Jacinto on May 29, 2014, 09:59:11 am
Phasing FTW.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: ThomasVeil on May 29, 2014, 09:59:59 am
How would mixing be implemented? Automatically for the user, like the privacy setting that was described by JL111 (https://nxtforum.org/nxt-promotion/nxt-will-not-provide-anonymity/) once?
Or would one have to send the coins specifically to the service?
...or am I completely mixing up the issues? :D
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: ChuckOne on May 29, 2014, 10:01:32 am
Privacy is multi-layered. We need the technology first, after that we can talk about possible "Privacy Levels".
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on May 29, 2014, 10:02:14 am
How would mixing be implemented? Automatically for the user, like the privacy setting that was described by JL111 (https://nxtforum.org/nxt-promotion/nxt-will-not-provide-anonymity/) once?
Or would one have to send the coins specifically to the service?
...or am I completely mixing up the issues? :D

I like jl777's idea.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: cc001 on May 29, 2014, 10:25:19 am
we should get that privacy/anonymity thing implemented as soon as possible, as deep in the core as possible. It's not a "nice-to-have"-feature, but a "must-have". The earlier we get it, the better. It must be a base functionality of the complete Nxt ecosystem
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Nxter on May 29, 2014, 10:31:01 am
Phasing!
Lets be the first crypto with it!  :)
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: abctc on May 29, 2014, 10:34:26 am
we should get that privacy/anonymity thing implemented as soon as possible, as deep in the core as possible. It's not a "nice-to-have"-feature, but a "must-have".

+ 999,997,096 !
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: rdanneskjoldr on May 29, 2014, 10:45:08 am
+1 to mixing if thats what brings Nxt closer to the privacy levels.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: bitcoinpaul on May 29, 2014, 10:46:01 am
I wonder if and how this mixing is connected to the latest discussions about different privacy levels.

If our starfish is drunk and swinging his arms without any coordination, we won't move forward.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: CryptKeeper on May 29, 2014, 10:51:27 am
Hm, privacy vs. security...

Can I vote for both? :-)
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: cc001 on May 29, 2014, 10:53:24 am
I wonder if and how this mixing is connected to the latest discussions about different privacy levels.

I don't know the exact technical implementation, but for my understanding those two are connected
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on May 29, 2014, 10:54:21 am
Guys, u should understand that mixing doesn't provide 100% anonymity. Lawyers of ur wife won't be able to take 2/3 of ur cryptowealth but NSA still will be able to track u. None of the solutions (except maybe Zerocash) provide 100% protection.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: lucky88888 on May 29, 2014, 11:00:13 am
phasing please! mixing is yesterday's news.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: abctc on May 29, 2014, 11:13:28 am
but NSA still will be able to track u.
- currently we only need to be no worse than darkcoin, anoncoin, XC and so forth.

After Zerocash become open source it would be possible to implement it in Nxt.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: bitcoinpaul on May 29, 2014, 11:14:42 am
but NSA still will be able to track u.
- currently we only need to be no worse than darkcoin, anoncoin, XC and so forth.

After Zerocash become open source it would be possible to implement it in Nxt.

So mixing could be our entry/mid-level privacy.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: mczarnek on May 29, 2014, 12:14:53 pm
I say Service Providing, can any other coin out there do subscriptions?  We need unique features and I think this is an important one...  of course price stability may be an issue, meaning nobody would use it..  or would it help price stability?  Nobody would agree to a subscription unless they thought it was a fair long term price?

Unless phasing will make it harder for people to steal my coins.

Also, not sure if CfB is the person to implement this but I think that 'smart leasing' should be considered.  Basically, intelligently divy up forging fees amongst forging pools so no human needs to be in charge of a pool and send fees that build up to the forgers within his pool immediately upon a block being forged.  The way it would work would be that a forger would set a fixed percentage fee that is agreed to at the time of leasing your forging power and every time his pool forges a block, the proceeds are divided up based upon percentage of the forging power of that pool that you own, except that the person doing the actual forging takes a little bit extra for himself.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: gs02xzz on May 29, 2014, 01:41:20 pm
I would vote for either Phasing or service providing because they are both good for business. Let's make Nxt business friendly first to inspire users to create more business and economy on Nxt, which will separate Nxt from all other existing coins, add more real users and capitals on Nxt, and move Nxt to the top.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: cc001 on May 29, 2014, 01:48:04 pm
Guys, u should understand that mixing doesn't provide 100% anonymity. Lawyers of ur wife won't be able to take 2/3 of ur cryptowealth but NSA still will be able to track u. None of the solutions (except maybe Zerocash) provide 100% protection.

Could mixing be a first step, and Zerocash could be implemented later?
Or would it be possible to implement 100%-zerocash-like-anonymity right now? how long would it take?
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: RGBT on May 29, 2014, 01:51:10 pm
mixing please!
I think mid-level privacy is better, that no privacy. I vote for privacy.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Daedelus on May 29, 2014, 02:38:31 pm
What feature to add after Monetary System?

Phasing - part of Account Control, can be used like Multisig, includes 2-phase payments.
Mixing - mixing based on CoinShuffle (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=567625.msg6370451#msg6370451) approach.
Service Providing - will allow to provide off-chain services for subscription payments (or for free).

Is "off-chain" the same as "parallel chain"?
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: bitcoinpaul on May 29, 2014, 02:44:43 pm
No
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: The-Lawyer-of-NXT on May 29, 2014, 02:52:36 pm
(http://www.memegenerator.es/imagenes/memes/80/10654259.jpg)
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: VanBreuk on May 29, 2014, 02:59:31 pm
+1 vote for phasing.

It would blow the competition out of the water if the enhancements it will bring were better understood.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: cc001 on May 29, 2014, 03:00:45 pm
Nowadays anonymity/privacy in crypto currencies should be a fundamental functionality. it is like the breaks in a car. The car can be the most beautiful one, it can have the most and best features, it can be the cheapest and fastest of all cars, but if the people know that it has no working breaks, nobody will buy or use it. It's the same with Nxt. Privacy/Anonymity functionality has to be implemented as a basic functionality. The earlier the better. All other features should be implemented later.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: The-Lawyer-of-NXT on May 29, 2014, 03:12:46 pm
Nowadays anonymity/privacy in crypto currencies should be a fundamental functionality. it is like the breaks in a car. The car can be the most beautiful one, it can have the most and best features, it can be the cheapest and fastest of all cars, but if the people know that it has no working breaks, nobody will buy or use it. It's the same with Nxt. Privacy/Anonymity functionality has to be implemented as a basic functionality. The earlier the better. All other features should be implemented later.

My opinion on privacy:

In the next future, cryptos will be regulated, and we will have: anonimous and non-anonimous cryptos.

I think non-anonimous cryptos will be banned. They wont be destroyed because it is impossible, but I think full-anonimous cryptos will have problems.

 
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on May 29, 2014, 03:21:28 pm
Could mixing be a first step, and Zerocash could be implemented later?

Yes.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: lyynx on May 29, 2014, 03:27:24 pm
I think due to the fact that we are pushing adoption by businesses, service providing should be the priority. Allowing subscriptions opens a whole new world to cryptos and businesses looking into them.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: cc001 on May 29, 2014, 03:36:47 pm
Could mixing be a first step, and Zerocash could be implemented later?

Yes.

cfb: how long would it take to implement mixing? how long for zerocash? and what is your personal opinion on this privacy / anonymity subject and importance?
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: josephliton on May 29, 2014, 03:39:33 pm
NXT will skyrocket after this System.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on May 29, 2014, 03:42:45 pm
cfb: how long would it take to implement mixing? how long for zerocash? and what is your personal opinion on this privacy / anonymity subject and importance?

I'm not planning to start implementing mixing earlier than in July. Can't assess time required for Zerocash coz I didn't read the whitepaper, only skimmed over the description. I think that we need anonymity to protect Nxt users, governments will do their best to outlaw cryptos, they can go as far as declaring that usage of cryptos is equal to usage of narcotics/guns.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: ThomasVeil on May 29, 2014, 03:44:19 pm
I would vote for either Phasing or service providing because they are both good for business. Let's make Nxt business friendly first

For businesses privacy is essential obviously. Don't want all your competition looking through your books.

My opinion on privacy:

In the next future, cryptos will be regulated, and we will have: anonimous and non-anonimous cryptos.

I think non-anonimous cryptos will be banned.

Well, and the week after they ban all cryptos that don't have a lever for the government to issue more coins.
The missing control over printing money is a million times more threatening to power than any privacy.
We shouldn't start self-regulating (http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-regulation-lessons-early-days-skype/).
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: jl777 on May 29, 2014, 03:45:32 pm
Nowadays anonymity/privacy in crypto currencies should be a fundamental functionality. it is like the breaks in a car. The car can be the most beautiful one, it can have the most and best features, it can be the cheapest and fastest of all cars, but if the people know that it has no working breaks, nobody will buy or use it. It's the same with Nxt. Privacy/Anonymity functionality has to be implemented as a basic functionality. The earlier the better. All other features should be implemented later.

My opinion on privacy:

In the next future, cryptos will be regulated, and we will have: anonimous and non-anonimous cryptos.

I think non-anonimous cryptos will be banned. They wont be destroyed because it is impossible, but I think full-anonimous cryptos will have problems.
NXT will implement privacy levels
User chooses what privacy level they want
So, I think it will be hard for regulators to categorize NXT into a singled anon category
especially if highest privacy levels requires third party add on

NXT is like the Internet itself. At the core its just bits going back and forth. All meaning is added by the protocols running on it. By encapsulating any controversial protocol outside the core, then NXT itself will be immune from anon regs.

The highest privacy levels for NXT will become available and not cost anything, so there is no profit making entity to become a target. The code that implements the highest privacy levels will be available via magnet links so it can never be erased or shutdown.

All this is inevitable, just a matter of time

James
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: The-Lawyer-of-NXT on May 29, 2014, 03:49:36 pm
Nowadays anonymity/privacy in crypto currencies should be a fundamental functionality. it is like the breaks in a car. The car can be the most beautiful one, it can have the most and best features, it can be the cheapest and fastest of all cars, but if the people know that it has no working breaks, nobody will buy or use it. It's the same with Nxt. Privacy/Anonymity functionality has to be implemented as a basic functionality. The earlier the better. All other features should be implemented later.

My opinion on privacy:

In the next future, cryptos will be regulated, and we will have: anonimous and non-anonimous cryptos.

I think non-anonimous cryptos will be banned. They wont be destroyed because it is impossible, but I think full-anonimous cryptos will have problems.
NXT will implement privacy levels
User chooses what privacy level they want
So, I think it will be hard for regulators to categorize NXT into a singled anon category
especially if highest privacy levels requires third party add on

NXT is like the Internet itself. At the core its just bits going back and forth. All meaning is added by the protocols running on it. By encapsulating any controversial protocol outside the core, then NXT itself will be immune from anon regs.

The highest privacy levels for NXT will become available and not cost anything, so there is no profit making entity to become a target. The code that implements the highest privacy levels will be available via magnet links so it can never be erased or shutdown.

All this is inevitable, just a matter of time

James

I dont see any problem with NXT. But "alts" as DARKCOIN that are sold because of its anonimity, will have problems. We will see.

I would love to see privacy levels implement in NXT. I think it is a really intelligent idea. Well done.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: cc001 on May 29, 2014, 03:50:22 pm
NXT will implement privacy levels
User chooses what privacy level they want
I like that approach!

All this is inevitable, just a matter of time

how long?
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: jl777 on May 29, 2014, 03:53:20 pm
NXT will skyrocket after this System.
NXT has more developers than any other crypto, except for BTC

NXT has delivered all the features it has promised so far, albeit with the standard delays due to software always taking longer than expected.

So, if you are intelligent investor, you need to imagine the price of NXT after Phasing, Privacy, etc.
Now discount it by the chance that it wont happen
This is the expected price for NXT

NXT timeframe is in months and years, not days or hours like the pump and dumps. Certainly other coins can provide a higher ROI over the short term, but NXT is the place where the money comes back to as it is accelerating in its capabilities at a rate that none of the gen1 coins can.

James
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: jl777 on May 29, 2014, 03:57:04 pm
Nowadays anonymity/privacy in crypto currencies should be a fundamental functionality. it is like the breaks in a car. The car can be the most beautiful one, it can have the most and best features, it can be the cheapest and fastest of all cars, but if the people know that it has no working breaks, nobody will buy or use it. It's the same with Nxt. Privacy/Anonymity functionality has to be implemented as a basic functionality. The earlier the better. All other features should be implemented later.

My opinion on privacy:

In the next future, cryptos will be regulated, and we will have: anonimous and non-anonimous cryptos.

I think non-anonimous cryptos will be banned. They wont be destroyed because it is impossible, but I think full-anonimous cryptos will have problems.
NXT will implement privacy levels
User chooses what privacy level they want
So, I think it will be hard for regulators to categorize NXT into a singled anon category
especially if highest privacy levels requires third party add on

NXT is like the Internet itself. At the core its just bits going back and forth. All meaning is added by the protocols running on it. By encapsulating any controversial protocol outside the core, then NXT itself will be immune from anon regs.

The highest privacy levels for NXT will become available and not cost anything, so there is no profit making entity to become a target. The code that implements the highest privacy levels will be available via magnet links so it can never be erased or shutdown.

All this is inevitable, just a matter of time

James

I dont see any problem with NXT. But "alts" as DARKCOIN that are sold because of its anonimity, will have problems. We will see.

I would love to see privacy levels implement in NXT. I think it is a really intelligent idea. Well done.
Thanks
politically it will be hard for govts to ban privacy, after all toilet stalls are not transparent!
As long as the default is "no privacy everyone can see everything you are doing", then what can the regulators do?
It will be the users themselves that will be selecting "personal privacy" or "business privacy" or "total privacy"
and "total privacy" would require a third party download

So the regulators have to make it illegal for people to select any privacy level other than totally transparent. Even in the nanny states, I doubt that will be accepted.
"total privacy" package will only exist in the cloud via magnet links
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: jl777 on May 29, 2014, 04:03:10 pm
NXT will implement privacy levels
User chooses what privacy level they want
I like that approach!

All this is inevitable, just a matter of time

how long?
CfB says he starts no sooner than July on the "personal privacy" level (aka mixing) so by the time it is done, probably fall. I am also fully booked for summer, so fall even winter for "total privacy", unless CfB can make the zerocash port sooner. I think we will have variants of privacy tech that we can mix and match to create the privacy levels

However, this is really a quite difficult problem so dont expect it right away or to be fully complete at first. A true privacy solution isnt just one magic module, it will be a combined system of tech, GUI, and participating users. I would imagine the first release would have the "personal privacy", but the higher levels of privacy would be greyed out in the GUI. We create a framework for adding more and more privacy, then as time goes on more and more privacy tech gets added to NXT, with more and more possible privacy levels. This is like an antivirus program. What works today, wont work tomorrow because the virus writers design new viruses to get around the existing antivirus. Therefore, it will always be evolving and never be "done"

Imagine you want to get lost in a crowd, but there is no crowd. So even if you have the tech to get lost in a crowd,it will require thousands of participating users. This will take time to develop.

This is why I think it a bit funny that a coin mentions anon and it gets to top 10 marketcap, but not only is the tech unproven and closed source, but there is no user base and of course how big and dedicated can a greed based community that formed in a couple weeks be?

Community is the key to a cryptos success. I mention DOGE. It succeeds on strength of community alone. Now imagine a crypto with full spectrum of tech and community. You have imagined NXT

James
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: sherpico77 on May 29, 2014, 04:24:32 pm

+1 vote for mixing. Being able to choose more privacy in crypto world is very important.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: msin on May 29, 2014, 04:34:16 pm
What feature to add after Monetary System?

Phasing - part of Account Control, can be used like Multisig, includes 2-phase payments.
Mixing - mixing based on CoinShuffle (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=567625.msg6370451#msg6370451) approach.
Service Providing - will allow to provide off-chain services for subscription payments (or for free).

I would say the features you listed in that exact order.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: innovator256 on May 29, 2014, 05:13:31 pm
What feature to add after Monetary System?

Phasing - part of Account Control, can be used like Multisig, includes 2-phase payments.
Mixing - mixing based on CoinShuffle (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=567625.msg6370451#msg6370451) approach.
Service Providing - will allow to provide off-chain services for subscription payments (or for free).

I would say the features you listed in that exact order.

+ my same thinking
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: martismartis on May 29, 2014, 05:21:38 pm
What feature to add after Monetary System?

Phasing - part of Account Control, can be used like Multisig, includes 2-phase payments.
Mixing - mixing based on CoinShuffle (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=567625.msg6370451#msg6370451) approach.
Service Providing - will allow to provide off-chain services for subscription payments (or for free).

I would say the features you listed in that exact order.

+ my same thinking

Yes, I also think CFB in unconscious already answered the order of features :)
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Daedelus on May 29, 2014, 07:05:45 pm
What feature to add after Monetary System?

Phasing - part of Account Control, can be used like Multisig, includes 2-phase payments.
Mixing - mixing based on CoinShuffle (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=567625.msg6370451#msg6370451) approach.
Service Providing - will allow to provide off-chain services for subscription payments (or for free).

I would say the features you listed in that exact order.

+ my same thinking

Yes, I also think CFB in unconscious already answered the order of features :)

I picked phasing. Damn ur mind games CfB! I am just a mouse in a maze... :D
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: rock3tm4n on May 29, 2014, 07:07:14 pm
In the office I am often faced with sentences like --- "Bitcoin? That is that anonymous currency which is used to buy drugs and other illegal stuff!"
I explain: --- "No, each transaction is tracked in the blockchain and each conversion into fiat is a potential way for a person with illegal activities to be caught.".

I think privacy is not needed at this moment, it might also be positive NOT to have that level of privacy now, maybe at a later stage.
I vote for service provider, this allows for fancy other services which might be really interesting.

btw.: to the developers: Great job so far!!!
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: cc001 on May 29, 2014, 07:38:18 pm
NXT will implement privacy levels
User chooses what privacy level they want
I like that approach!

All this is inevitable, just a matter of time

how long?
CfB says he starts no sooner than July on the "personal privacy" level (aka mixing) so by the time it is done, probably fall. I am also fully booked for summer, so fall even winter for "total privacy", unless CfB can make the zerocash port sooner. I think we will have variants of privacy tech that we can mix and match to create the privacy levels

However, this is really a quite difficult problem so dont expect it right away or to be fully complete at first. A true privacy solution isnt just one magic module, it will be a combined system of tech, GUI, and participating users. I would imagine the first release would have the "personal privacy", but the higher levels of privacy would be greyed out in the GUI. We create a framework for adding more and more privacy, then as time goes on more and more privacy tech gets added to NXT, with more and more possible privacy levels. This is like an antivirus program. What works today, wont work tomorrow because the virus writers design new viruses to get around the existing antivirus. Therefore, it will always be evolving and never be "done"

Imagine you want to get lost in a crowd, but there is no crowd. So even if you have the tech to get lost in a crowd,it will require thousands of participating users. This will take time to develop.

This is why I think it a bit funny that a coin mentions anon and it gets to top 10 marketcap, but not only is the tech unproven and closed source, but there is no user base and of course how big and dedicated can a greed based community that formed in a couple weeks be?

Community is the key to a cryptos success. I mention DOGE. It succeeds on strength of community alone. Now imagine a crypto with full spectrum of tech and community. You have imagined NXT

James

sounds reasonable, thx
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: msin on May 29, 2014, 08:27:56 pm
In the office I am often faced with sentences like --- "Bitcoin? That is that anonymous currency which is used to buy drugs and other illegal stuff!"

I hear the same thing in my office, but my reply is "What's wrong with drugs?"
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Pilot on May 29, 2014, 08:28:45 pm
In the office I am often faced with sentences like --- "Bitcoin? That is that anonymous currency which is used to buy drugs and other illegal stuff!"

I hear the same thing in my office, but my reply is "What's wrong with drugs?"

Right, cause people don't buy drugs and illegal stuff with cash!
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: rudeboi on May 29, 2014, 09:14:37 pm
It was pretty hard to pick when I'm not sure long each feature would take to code, and also if it is a potential duplicate of other projects.

I love the idea of Account Control, but am more interested in locking which cannot be done until AT is implemented. I'm not sure what use phasing would have for most users. Maybe if someone could explain the benefits to me?

Privacy is obviously the big thing in crypto at the moment, so due to demand and the prospective positive impact to our volume I have voted this. Isn't Jl777 working on NxtMixer? Or Zerocash? If not then this should be a priority.

I don't know enough about the 3rd option.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Nxter on May 29, 2014, 09:55:07 pm

I love the idea of Account Control, but am more interested in locking which cannot be done until AT is implemented. I'm not sure what use phasing would have for most users. Maybe if someone could explain the benefits to me?

I don't know enough about the 3rd option.

For most users (i believe) this could be used to set double security to the Nxt accounts.  So this will be really good for paranoid users. Being that,  you will be able to set up double password to make a transfer of your Nxt..   :D

I do not fully understand the 3rd option either...
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: rudeboi on May 29, 2014, 10:06:24 pm

I love the idea of Account Control, but am more interested in locking which cannot be done until AT is implemented. I'm not sure what use phasing would have for most users. Maybe if someone could explain the benefits to me?

I don't know enough about the 3rd option.

For most users (i believe) this could be used to set double security to the Nxt accounts.  So this will be really good for paranoid users. Being that,  you will be able to set up double password to make a transfer of your Nxt..   :D

I do not fully understand the 3rd option either...

Going by what I have read about phasing it has nothing to do with double passwording your account, that is another part of Account Control which cannot be done for a while. It's to do with sending a transaction which goes on the blockchain but the payment doesn't get a the recipient until another criteria is met (such as a secondary account needing to authorizes it). Am I on the right tracks CfB?
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Nxter on May 29, 2014, 10:17:14 pm

I love the idea of Account Control, but am more interested in locking which cannot be done until AT is implemented. I'm not sure what use phasing would have for most users. Maybe if someone could explain the benefits to me?

I don't know enough about the 3rd option.

For most users (i believe) this could be used to set double security to the Nxt accounts.  So this will be really good for paranoid users. Being that,  you will be able to set up double password to make a transfer of your Nxt..   :D

I do not fully understand the 3rd option either...

Going by what I have read about phasing it has nothing to do with double passwording your account, that is another part of Account Control which cannot be done for a while. It's to do with sending a transaction which goes on the blockchain but the payment doesn't get a the recipient until another criteria is met (such as a secondary account needing to authorizes it). Am I on the right tracks CfB?

If the secondary account is owned by yourself then you have double password...  ;)
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on May 29, 2014, 10:24:39 pm
Am I on the right tracks CfB?

Yes.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: rudeboi on May 29, 2014, 10:31:45 pm
@Nxter
But the first (hijacked) account would have to set the outgoing specific payment to be phased for this to happen? (Which they wouldn't)
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: mczarnek on May 29, 2014, 10:57:39 pm
One more small thing that needs to be done, transfer of aliases between accounts.  I realize how ridiculous it is, but Quora is claiming they are better because they allow that.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: nCtrl on May 29, 2014, 11:08:45 pm
It is in the works already.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: lyynx on May 29, 2014, 11:11:46 pm
I don't know enough about the 3rd option.
Basically, it allows for subscriptions. Imagine paying monthly for Netflix, Spotify, Gym Membersip etc... automatically with Nxt. If you have used Paypals subscriptions - same thing.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Nxter on May 29, 2014, 11:23:21 pm
@Nxter
But the first (hijacked) account would have to set the outgoing specific payment to be phased for this to happen? (Which they wouldn't)

Ahh ok! I thought the phasing would be related to an account.

I see now that it will be a type of transaction...   
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: mczarnek on May 29, 2014, 11:34:32 pm
Excellent regarding alias transfer.

I say that if true anonymity is possible, via the ZeroCoin method, then go that route.  Why implement mixing if it doesn't provide true anonymity?

Just preferably do it in a way that can be easily removed from the code if anonymity is made illegal.

What happened to hiring the ZeroCash people to implement the protocol within Nxt instead of in their own coin?
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: ThomasVeil on May 30, 2014, 12:22:17 am
Why implement mixing if it doesn't provide true anonymity?

+1440
False impressions of safety/privacy are a problem in iteself.
If there is still a way to track transfers, then it's not worth spending time on the feature.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: msin on May 30, 2014, 03:31:41 am
What happened to hiring the ZeroCash people to implement the protocol within Nxt instead of in their own coin?

They didn't really seem interested at the time.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: alxx77 on May 30, 2014, 08:13:54 am
Phasing definitely
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Evan on May 30, 2014, 09:23:27 am
with DGS being released, I think phasing should be given the top priority.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: cc001 on May 30, 2014, 09:34:30 am
What happened to hiring the ZeroCash people to implement the protocol within Nxt instead of in their own coin?

They didn't really seem interested at the time.

Maybe they are interested now, or will be interested pretty soon?
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: ChuckOne on May 30, 2014, 10:49:29 am
Not sure if ZeroCoin will really solve the problem. If I am not completely mistaken, it suffers the same issues as Mixing.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: apenzl on May 30, 2014, 11:23:44 am
NSA is not in my country  ???

Lawyers of ur wife won't be able to take 2/3 of ur cryptowealth but NSA still will be able to track u.

[EDIT]: (that was a joke)
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: bubble on May 30, 2014, 11:36:36 am
+1 for phasing!
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: mczarnek on May 30, 2014, 01:02:19 pm
Not sure if ZeroCoin will really solve the problem. If I am not completely mistaken, it suffers the same issues as Mixing.

I thought it was truly anonymous? The idea is that you create a proof of transaction somehow, this proof is somewhat time consuming to make but easily validated, that proof is then sent to the blockchain as a transaction.  Given this proof you can verify that this account gets X coins, I guess in someway you need to verify which account loses them.. not sure how that works though.

But especially if the proof of transaction could be created by the person sending the coins.. is that possible?  Sounds like ZeroCash significantly cuts down on the amount of work needed to generate these proofs.. who knows, maybe they can be done on a smartphone.   idk for sure, maybe you are right.

With a DarkCoin like system, it seems to me like the NSA can run a DarkNode and see where mix that takes place pretty easily, with ZeroCoin, I think that's not possible.  Maybe you can keep track of which addresses are losing equal amounts of money as other nodes are gaining or something.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Daedelus on May 30, 2014, 08:33:56 pm
Will Monetary System be in the next release?
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on May 30, 2014, 08:36:50 pm
Will Monetary System be in the next release?

Depends on Jean-Luc. I'm going to complete it in 2 weeks.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: Daedelus on May 30, 2014, 09:53:23 pm
Yer, probably best to stagger them, people have a hard time understanding all of what Nxt is as it is :D
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: apenzl on May 30, 2014, 11:34:02 pm
Service providing would be an opportunity to get more ppl in. I'd love to have these people near, just to tell them: Phasing is up next. Next up is mixing. Turn them into nerds, have them share the news to their network. The more people hear, the more floors will be hit by dropping jaws, and make more Nxters.

After this vote, even after the implementation of all three, what will come next?

I miss the time, when we were all calling devs Heroes in the Megathread, not just "karma-pointing" them. Hell, here we go: CfB = HERO! I want all three!  :)
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: ThomasVeil on May 31, 2014, 12:43:20 am
I miss the time, when we were all calling devs Heroes in the Megathread, not just "karma-pointing" them. Hell, here we go: CfB = HERO! I want all three!  :)

Before my time - but I agree, they are heroes. And the environment around Nxt too.
I'm stunned how fast for example several block explorers popped up with amazing looking asset views. Wasn't it just days after launch? Seems superhuman.
Title: Re: What feature to add after Monetary System
Post by: rock3tm4n on May 31, 2014, 07:22:28 am
Quote
I'm stunned how fast for example several block explorers popped up with amazing looking asset views. Wasn't it just days after launch? Seems superhuman.

An compared to other cryptos NXT feature & frontends are really developed in lightspeed. Were there any new features developed for bitcoin recently?
All three NXT features discussed in this thread are really great and I love to see all of it. This is why I moved all my BTC to NXT. Great development!!

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