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Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
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Author Topic: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix  (Read 19281 times)

Nxter

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2016, 11:43:37 am »

Shouldn't a good marketing campaign for the launch of 2.0 be enough?
Instead of a new ICO, just hype the shit out of NXT 2.0? That's what those other coins do. They just trhow big word and "revolutionary" ideas.

We make a point to show that you need NXT to get fNXT, and people would "invest" by simply buying NXT on exchange.

Nxt history shows that after every big and innovative feature it released, price went down (or it did not have effect at all) instead of of up.
That is why we should think of change the methods of releasing such ground breaking features.
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bcdev

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2016, 11:48:12 am »

Nxt history shows that after every big and innovative feature it released, price went down (or it did not have effect at all) instead of of up.
That is why we should think of change the methods of releasing such ground breaking features.
Two words: Bear market. For 1.5 years every single altcoin was down.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 12:00:11 pm by bcdev »
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bidji29

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2016, 12:10:45 pm »

Problem is NXT marketing was always too bland, too honest.
If you want to sell, you need to HYPE and make people dream.

For exemple instead of just calling it NXT 2.0; which is pretty bland, add a adjective, like:

The NXT "Edge" 2.0 release

And you launch a new site NxtEdge.com that hype the shit of the new feature, tell you it's a new paradigm in crypto, etc..

We could be inspired by site like https://www.ethereum.org/ or https://lisk.io/
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xchrix

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2016, 12:41:44 pm »

i think after more than 1.5 years bear market many NXT enthusiasts have just lost faith and energy. at least this is true for me. worked so many hours for NXT and coded many things and then looking at other coins having nothing and doing the 10x volume and progress. we really need to change something but where should we get the energy to do that?
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coretechs

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2016, 01:00:10 pm »

i think after more than 1.5 years bear market many NXT enthusiasts have just lost faith and energy. at least this is true for me. worked so many hours for NXT and coded many things and then looking at other coins having nothing and doing the 10x volume and progress. we really need to change something but where should we get the energy to do that?

1.  Invest in other bullshit coin ICOs
2.  Dump and profit
3.  Continue to work on Nxt

;D


I think Nxt has had very good progress thanks to our core devs.  We have a solid platform that has delivered nearly every feature promised, it's just a shame nobody uses them.  As tempting as it is to "reboot" and go for some easy ICO money, I still think that we need a major user/business that creates something of actual value using Nxt if we want to see real growth.
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Hachoir

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2016, 01:01:44 pm »

i think after more than 1.5 years bear market many NXT enthusiasts have just lost faith and energy. at least this is true for me. worked so many hours for NXT and coded many things and then looking at other coins having nothing and doing the 10x volume and progress. we really need to change something but where should we get the energy to do that?

Of course you don't mean energy here. You mean faith and this is lame. The project has to be delivered.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 01:06:35 pm by Hachoir »
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apenzl

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2016, 03:55:45 pm »

K, let’s throw everything up in the air then.
 
Here’s another blasphemous idea  :)
if we want to sell the Nxt tech, re-brand + raise funds.

The Nxters who want to keep supporting the NXT childchain after 2.0 (which showcases all Nxt features) do that. For example, the Nxt Foundation, who does conferences, b2b and b2dev marketing would do that. And Nxt core devs obviously.

Those who have other/additional visions choose some features (or all), create a childchain, make an ICO.

A NxtX ICO 2.0, optimised with the knowledge they gained from Nxt ICO and from following Nxt for 2+ years, and SN, and other 2.0 projects. They launch with working tech, lower fees, an understandable roadmap, and with a great marketing plan.

They won’t have core devs to pay directly, but development ON TOP of Nxt to do, and marketing.

Look at the $M’s that are thrown after Ethereum-based startups which only promises to develop a few of the features that Nxt already has inside the core.

Show investors a GUI and a roadmap + whitepaper, and they're sold. Nxt has working tech > NxtX will have working tech.

Nxters who support Nxt / NXT childchain (should be all of us!) can also invest in NxtX.
They would, afaik, because we all know the value of the Nxt tech, but also that we need a way (and funds!) to market it.

One could consider NXT-childchain the NRS (Nxt Reference)-chain, and NxtX the Average Joe-chain, or Nxt Services/usability-chain.
Nxt-X ICO funds will be used for creating GUI’s and additional functionality for end users. Mobile wallets, online wallets, local clients. NxtBank + Business backends.

As a Nxt community project, NxtX should, imo, support the Nxt core devs and Nxt Foundation with NxtX stakes, maybe a % of the ICO funds. And vice versa. NxtX (foundation?) should have a pretty high fNxt stake to forge with, this to motivate the NxtX (foundation?) to stick with the plan: Create and promote their ICO'd product, but ALSO publicly support the underlying tech, Nxt, and help Nxt gain global adoption.

NXT and NxtX will always be connected. It’s 2 arms of the Nxt starfish.
NxtX would be listed on Nxt.org. Presented on Nxter.org, along with Nxt. The coming public child chains too, if they wish.

Do we want to see Nxt scale? Do we want sidechains pegged to other cryptocurrencies as well as the main fiat currencies? I, for one, would like to see that. The Nxt + NxtX collabo could make it easy for interested parties to launch; Nxt can launch localised / customised Nxt sidechains. NxtX can provide localised / customised easy-to-use wallets/GUI's, even with extra functionality build on top of Nxt core.

NxtX points interested parties to the the core devs and Nxt Foundation. They, in return, points whoever interested to NxtX because NxtX provides live showcases (user-friendly bank, asset exchange, stores, whatever we want - business/government backends). How about that.

Nxt will keep the corporate design.
NxtX will launch with a new identity but flash the “NxtInside” logo.

Nxt will document and promote core tech to developers, businesses. Develop core.
NxtX will develop and promote use cases to end users - the commons, the merchants, businesses. Promote Nxt.

Nxt will fund core devs from unclaimed coins + have income from NxtX + fNxt forging.
NxtX will fund Nxt-savy developers who currently work outside the core but aren't paid + hire external coders and designers.

AE asset issuers and investors will get nice features with NxtX.
Nxt and NxtX works together to get crypto + fiat pegged sidechains / trusted gateways - more markets.
If we succeed, same markets (sidechains) should imo be available to Nxt Marketplace users too. DGS would become useful.

Now who will contact the transition town ppl's?   :D

Within this vision an fNxt Foundation would consist of X elected representatives from each childchain.
Those would be given influence (voting rights) on the most important Nxt core decisions. Votes would be cast on the NXT-chain.  :)

Well, this is a brainstorm, thoughts caused by the wish for re-branding and an ICO.

Anyways.

Effect: Funds. New distribution. Use the community. Unity. Maybe faith.

We can’t suddenly just “promote the Hell out of Nxt”. I’ve worked a LOT for Nxt, like others, it has brought me RL depth and too little sleep. But we can’t expect 2 good people working half time with TNNSE to bring us all we want. Sure, we can pray, or we can sit down, watch CMC and hope for some big business to magically drop by and turn everything around. Or we can build something, create the news ourselves, maybe become that first business and take the first mover advantage. Behind the scenes, all nxters will work together, but we can’t expect old or new nxters to just work for free.

Be back later.

coretechs

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2016, 05:14:15 pm »

create a childchain, make an ICO.

I like this suggestion.  A new childchain with identical features to the "original NXT" childchain would likely win if it had a wide distribution through a successful ICO.  Original NXT holders would still benefit by holding FXT (fNXT) since it will be required to secure transactions on the mother chain.
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Jean-Luc

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2016, 05:34:07 pm »

Interesting, but this means all current assets, MS coins, aliases, etc, will not be transferred to that NXT2 child chain. Which makes it simpler from a developers point of view, no need to write code for that. But we need to keep Nxt 1.x alive for as long as it works or anyone cares to use it.

Then existing NXT holders get the FXT token on 2.0, an ICO is conducted for the NXT2 child chain token, the new NXT2 child chain starts fresh with a genesis block based on that ICO, but no other holdings. And we maintain the 1.x branch as is with bugfixes only, or possibly hire developers using the ICO funds to maintain it and add small features without major architectural changes.
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lurker10

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2016, 05:45:37 pm »

or set up two NXT child chains, the original and the ICO one. Expropriation absent, there should be no objections to either implementation.
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Peter2516

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2016, 06:29:38 pm »

Nxt history shows that after every big and innovative feature it released, price went down (or it did not have effect at all) instead of of up.
That is why we should think of change the methods of releasing such ground breaking features.
Two words: Bear market. For 1.5 years every single altcoin was down.
And NXT price was systematically kept down by some early stakeholder(s) like LSUM cashing out millions. Which kept the downward trend going, which causes lack of investors (who only look at graphs). A vicious circle.
It's not that other coins and platforms ARE actually used a lot, it's still mostly CMC speculation imo. Not based on intrinsic value.
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Nxter

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2016, 08:15:39 pm »

K, let’s throw everything up in the air then.
.....
Be back later.

Good job apenzl, your post is is a very interesting read.
I recommend everyone to read it carefully and think about that.

Especially, I would like to know what coinomat thinks about your idea. It sound to me that Waves could perfectly be your NxtX if we leave apart rancor and be united.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 09:53:33 pm by Nxter »
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Jean-Luc

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2016, 09:38:23 pm »

or set up two NXT child chains, the original and the ICO one. Expropriation absent, there should be no objections to either implementation.
If they have exactly the same functionality, this would still be like printing money and dilution by 50%. Plus user confusion which one to use and why, and disagreement about which one should be the default in the client.
 
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apenzl

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2016, 10:59:52 pm »

@Jean-Luc

My suggestion was 2 child chains:
Nxt 1.x transferred (as planned) +
a new ICO chain (NxtX / NXT2 / whatever name).

What you suggest is:
keeping the current Nxt 1.x chain alive ("as long as it works or anyone cares to use it") +
creating 1 childchain only, the new NXT2 chain. Started from scratch, alone on the new motherchain.

What I get from that is:

Nxt 1.x tokens will keep forging on Nxt 1.x chain.
As a bonus to investors, they will get the fNxt tokens 1:1.
Nxt 1.x assets, aliases, etc. will NOT be transferred to NXT2 but left on the Nxt 1.x. chain.

So…
Core devs would have to take care of 2 different chains.
Nxt 1.x investors would be left with NXT tokens on a somehow slowly dying chain.
Their compensation, fNxt, will presumably be traded for less than their NXT, as forging fees are (still) low, and forging is what fNxts are for.
In other words, investors *might* rush into a fight to be the first to dump everything as soon as this plan is announced. Why stick with oldNxt.

Assets. Businesses with assets will be disconnected from the motherchain + coming sidechains. They will have to ask their investors to return all assets (via pruneable AM or?), then burn/delete those assets from 1.x chain, re-issue them on the NXT2-chain, and then distribute them back to their investors. Those who may be left. I don’t think that would be many. Still, all investors won’t be reachable, so besides central exchanges (those who list current AE assets) having to list 2 similar assets, the business owner would also have to maintain 2 similar assets, one on 1.x chain, and one on NXT2-chain. As an asset issuer, honestly I would hate Nxt.  :-\  Experiment over. Never trust a stranger on the internet, especially not if nicknamed BCNext.

What did I miss?

And what is the problem of launching 2 sidechains, Nxt and NxtX, as I suggested?

[EDIT]: Ok, I see you answered while I wrote. :)  Thanks.

or set up two NXT child chains, the original and the ICO one. Expropriation absent, there should be no objections to either implementation.
If they have exactly the same functionality, this would still be like printing money and dilution by 50%.

If 2 childchains with the exact same functionality are launched, all existing assets could be traded on both. (DGS items too, I hope). Existing aliases could be used on both chains too, with a pre-fix, as explained in the Q&A on nxtchat.slack. But only NXT investors will get fNxt.

How does NxtX dilute the value of NXT?

Because new investors would have 2 tokens to choose between?  ???

Q: As the NRS is being further developed, will those enhancements automatically get adopted by all child chains?

Again, I may miss something really obvious here, but afaik NxtX ICO would be fresh money floating in, to the benefit of both chains.

Quote
user confusion which one to use and why, and disagreement about which one should be the default in the client.
 

As per my suggestion, the default NRS client would be the NXT client.

NxtX ICO would raise funds for development of more feature-specific clients, added client side functionality, and it would brand itself differently (not with our corporate design, besides NxtInside logo). It would also support Nxt core development and the Nxt Foundation financially and through marketing of both chains.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 11:07:27 pm by apenzl »
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farl4bit

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2016, 07:10:01 am »

I agree on some parts of your plan. An ICO for FNXT would be great and much needed for Nxt. Many coins raise a lot of money and have the power to hire a lot of devs and do more marketing. They will be hard to fight against, although Nxt still has the better technology. The best idea does not always win. Marketing and traction in the market is very important.

My idea is to rebrand and rename FNXT and do some kind of ICO. With the funds we can make NXT/fnxt great!
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lurker10

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2016, 07:36:49 am »

or set up two NXT child chains, the original and the ICO one. Expropriation absent, there should be no objections to either implementation.
If they have exactly the same functionality, this would still be like printing money and dilution by 50%. Plus user confusion which one to use and why, and disagreement about which one should be the default in the client.

It's not obvious how this is a dilution of the original NXT child chain coins.

The ICO child chain will be a disaffiliated coin, independently funded, a brand new Genesis and no assets, much like when someone will pay the devs in the future to add a separate child chain to the Nxt 2.0 platform with a full set of features. Will you decline and only accept orders to set up child chains with a limited set of features?

Have two sets of clients, the original child chain and the ICO child chain as the default. Is this more dev work than having to forever maintain the Nxt 1.x branch?
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Jean-Luc

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2016, 08:04:35 am »

Such second chain will just have no reason to exist. It will not have the network effect of the original chain, it will only have the new investors owning tokens on it. The developers will be in a constant conflict of interest, if they push the new chain as default, original stakeholders will feel abandoned, if they push the original chain, investors will feel they have been sold game money that are not in real demand. You can't expect the investors to take care of promoting the new chain, they put the money in, they expect you to do the work. If we try to promote both, a user coming to nxt.org will not know which client to download and which chain to use.

I understand not migrating the 1.x holdings to 2.0 creates too many problems so it is not a good solution either. The options we seem to have are:

1. Reserve some percentage of FXT to be sold to new investors in an ICO, with funds collected going to the Nxt Foundation. Existing NXT owners get less than 1 FXT for each 1 NXT they own.

2. Inflate the NXT2 supply in 2.0, creating another 1B (or less, say 200M) NXT2 tokens to be sold to new investors. But keep those on the same chain as the one to which the original NXT1 is migrated.

3. Some combination of the above, so that new investors can purchase both FXT and NXT2 (in a fixed ratio). For a new investor, this may be most attractive, as it is not sure whether FXT or NXT2 will be in higher demand after 2.0 and which one will be more successful in the long term.
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Jean-Luc

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2016, 08:13:45 am »

Shouldn't a good marketing campaign for the launch of 2.0 be enough?

We make a point to show that you need NXT to get fNXT, and people would "invest" by simply buying NXT on exchange.

No, this is not enough. This does not provide funding for marketing, for the Nxt foundation, to hire new client and UI developers, to hire new core developers, to pay current core developers, to maintain websites and services, to offer support for new users, and all that. A pump in the value of NXT will just allow some more stakeholders to dump and exit.
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bidji29

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2016, 09:18:34 am »

I think an important point to make when we launch the next ICO is to point the first NXT ICO only raised 21BTC!

"How far we went with only 21 BTC! "


And point out the number of clone too, which is an indicator of success/quality of the code.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 09:23:27 am by bidji29 »
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Damelon

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Re: Time for drastic measures - Nxt 2.0 – The Nxt Phoenix
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2016, 10:06:41 am »

And point out the number of clone too, which is an indicator of success/quality of the code.

I've always liked looking at http://mapofcoins.com/nxt  :)
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