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Nxt Discussion => Nxt General Discussion => Topic started by: Tai Zen on March 28, 2016, 01:41:24 am

Title: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: Tai Zen on March 28, 2016, 01:41:24 am
Fellow Nxters,

1.  Many of you guys myself and my buddy Leon Fu as early investors of NXT.  In addition to Marc De Mesel, we have made the most NXT videos online to help promote NXT since it first came out.  We even went to the 1st Texas Bitcoin Conference to spread the word about NXT.  In addition, myself and Damelon and others in the NXT community to help organize and start the NXT Foundation so we can help promote NXT.  Due to my father in law's open heart surgery which consumed all my time and resources, I had to resign from the NXT Foundation.  However, I still followed NXT behind the scenes.

2.  I have not made any videos about NXT during it's decline in the crypto community because I had no solution to fix the decline in NXT.  However, the recent successes of Ethereum, Auger, Lisk, etc. and talk of NXT 2.0 has prompted Leon Fu and I (with input from our friend James D'Angelo from the World Bitcoin Network) to come up with these 10 Keys To Success in reinventing NXT. 

3.  We are calling this proposal "The Madonna Solution" because we believe that NXT needs to reinvent itself in order to avoid extinction.  Here is our proposal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGRUERF2FHk

2016-03-28 UPDATE:
A few people, asked for the text version.  I do not type fast, that is why I always prefer to do videos, but here are the bullet points of what I discussed in the video:

How To Reinvent NXT In 10 Steps:

1. 3 month legit ICO
2. eliminate centralization
3. notate & publish their POS alogrithm
4. Announce NXT 2.0 relaunch at all major bitcoin conferences
5. Identify a clear use & ideal customer for NXT (Here are some examples):
   a. ETH = Smart Contracts, DAO, Turing Complete Scripting
   b. DOGE = A joke & tipping coin
   c. Monero, DASH = Anonymity & Privacy
   d. MAID, Storj, SIA - Distributed cloud service
   e. Slock = hardware/software locks
   f. Lisk = Decentralized Apps

Ask yourself these simple marketing questions:
   a.  What is the potential customer or user's irrational pain?
   b.  Is the potential customer or user actively searching for a solution?

7. Include bonuses & incentives during the NXT ICO
8. Get microsoft onboard
9. Set aside funding for development, sales & marketing
10.  Come up with a new name for NXT

I call it the "Madonna Solution" because Madonna has reinvented herself over the years to stay current.  If Madonna can reinvent herself, so can NXT.


Let me know your thoughts guys...

Enjoy
Tai Zen
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: durerus on March 28, 2016, 03:28:48 am
Looking at the 200 largest accounts NXT is probably better distributed than BTC. Envy and "unfair distribution" couldn't prevent a 70 million USD marketcap in June 2014. So on the objective as on the subjective side "bad distribution" is not a reason for another ICO.

Problem of new ICO is screwing current stakeholders. If you don't screw them completely (= their old NXT will entitle them to zero or only a very low percentage of NXT 2.0) but give them a large chunk of NXT 2.0, the envy of others will still be there and the ICO will not raise a lot of funds, if envy is really a reason for not liking NXT.

I predict that envy will be overcome by greed, once people realize what NXT has to offer with 2.0 and how cheap NXT 1.x is!

Or is solving scalability and blockchain bloat completely irrelevant? Is it all about "Shut up and take my money, because it is an ICO. I can get rich quick and sell to the suckers who didn't buy in during the three months period"?

ICO is just a pump. And we need a pump. But instead of pumping by ICO I would suggest to pump by aggressively marketing JL's 2.0 proposal and telling the crypto community that they have to buy current NXT to get NXT 2.0, because for every NXT 1.x you get 1 NXT 2.0. Every shit coin and vapor ware gets pumped. We have a functioning tech that is highly innovative. We have all the right in the world to pump NXT. But it is necessary that we realize that we need to do it and want to do it. Let's do it fast, before the BTC halving. Let's eat a juicy morsel out of ETH's market cap!

70 million market cap is possible with "bad distribution" and greed beating envy as seen in June 2014. Before or after we start to reach higher market cap by marketing NXT 2.0 stakeholders can donate to devs and marketing funds. But the donations should be sold for fiat partially during pump, just to have some money for bad times. This should have been done in June 2014.

I like everything what you propose, except new ICO. Don't screw the early adopters. They will be the backbone of the future success.

P.S.: Would be interesting to know why our POS don't get respect, I think it's envy  ;D
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: rubenbc on March 28, 2016, 03:33:12 am
Fellow Nxters,
1.  Many of you guys myself and my buddy Leon Fu as early investors of NXT.  In addition to Marc De Mesel, we have made the most NXT videos online to help promote NXT since it first came out.  We even went to the 1st Texas Bitcoin Conference to spread the word about NXT.  In addition, myself and Damelon and others in the NXT community to help organize and start the NXT Foundation so we can help promote NXT.  Due to my father in law's open heart surgery which consumed all my time and resources, I had to resign from the NXT Foundation.  However, I still followed NXT behind the scenes.

2.  I have not made any videos about NXT during it's decline in the crypto community because I had no solution to fix the decline in NXT.  However, the recent successes of Ethereum, Auger, Lisk, etc. and talk of NXT 2.0 has prompted Leon Fu and I (with input from our friend James D'Angelo from the World Bitcoin Network) to come up with these 10 Keys To Success in reinventing NXT. 

3.  We are calling this proposal "The Madonna Solution" because we believe that NXT needs to reinvent itself in order to avoid extinction.  Here is our proposal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGRUERF2FHk

Let me know your thoughts guys...

Enjoy
Tai Zen

I hope the hospital matters go well.
I am very happy to see you again here, I look forward to to come home and watch your video.

Thank you
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: JohnHolmes on March 28, 2016, 05:22:41 am
Fellow Nxters,

1.  Many of you guys myself and my buddy Leon Fu as early investors of NXT.  In addition to Marc De Mesel, we have made the most NXT videos online to help promote NXT since it first came out.  We even went to the 1st Texas Bitcoin Conference to spread the word about NXT.  In addition, myself and Damelon and others in the NXT community to help organize and start the NXT Foundation so we can help promote NXT.  Due to my father in law's open heart surgery which consumed all my time and resources, I had to resign from the NXT Foundation.  However, I still followed NXT behind the scenes.

2.  I have not made any videos about NXT during it's decline in the crypto community because I had no solution to fix the decline in NXT.  However, the recent successes of Ethereum, Auger, Lisk, etc. and talk of NXT 2.0 has prompted Leon Fu and I (with input from our friend James D'Angelo from the World Bitcoin Network) to come up with these 10 Keys To Success in reinventing NXT. 

3.  We are calling this proposal "The Madonna Solution" because we believe that NXT needs to reinvent itself in order to avoid extinction.  Here is our proposal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGRUERF2FHk

Let me know your thoughts guys...

Enjoy
Tai Zen

Great video, and good suggestions too!

I disagree we need a new ICO though, I think we just need to push the idea that every NXT bought now entitles the buyer to fNXT after 2.0 launch. We could even do the same as what LISK did and create a NXT 2.0 branded 'IPO' page that uses shapeshift as the backend so people can buy fNXT with any crypto they like. We could even add a small fee that went into a dev fund.

Obviously people more familiar with crypto would realise they could just buy NXT at a regular exchange, but there's nothing stopping us creating the IPO 'vibe' like LISK did with such success. Obviously the price for a NXT 2.0 IPO isn't fixed, but with the right marketing it would be easy to push the idea that NXT is going to rise in price as fNXT and 2.0 plans become more widely known, so there's an early bird discount of sorts.

As for marketing, I think there are only two really interesting people to come out of the crypto scene so far, Satoshi and BCNext. There's lots of other cool people for sure, but nobody can compete with the mystique and understated charisma of what they did, and how they did it, and given that Satoshi has a million bitcoins (supposedly) and BCNext walked away with nothing, BCNext is a far more intriguing figure in many ways.

NXT has always lacked a front man like Andresen, or Andreas Antonopolous, or Vitalek Buterin, but a new marketing effort could still use BCNext as a front man of sorts to grab some attention. Obviously he can't appear at conferences, but others could talk about him and what his values were, and what his actions meant for decentralisation and open source development.

Most people know very little about Che Guevara but his image still became a cultural icon and a powerful symbol about 'values', and after he was dead. The 'anonymous' face mask is the same.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/1zxw9yr.jpg)

When I think of BCNext I imagine an idealistic eccentric genius, but also a realist "A world with the money can not be perfect". By giving away his NXT creation without making any money himself he did something really quite amazing, and unique compared to every other alt coin. The NXT IPO was a Black Swan event, and despite the envy problem from other crypto early adopters, it's a great story, and end users of crypto products and services wont care. Do regular people not use a product or service because of concern over the wealth of founders and early investors? History of Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Air BnB etc suggests NO!

I also love that BCNet purposely set out to raise 21 bitoins exactly in the IPO as a homage to Satoshi and the 21M bitcoins, that's a nice touch, and shows his respect to Satoshi.

BCNext is a great marketing asset, and we need to start using him asap.

BCNext was about the "WHY" of crypto currency (make the world a bit better), not just the 'What' and 'How'. Someone posted this video in the iOTA thread and it made me think about how much activity in the cryptospere appears to be about money, and technical achievements, and 'ego', and fame even, but BCNext seems to have had absolutely no interest in any of those things, and that's really interesting, and inspiring, and I think we should honor that, (and cynically use it to pump fNXT to da moon lol). Seriously, BCNext is marketing gold, and we don't need to pay him haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sioZd3AxmnE



Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: lurker10 on March 28, 2016, 06:54:47 am
Incentivizing forgers with additional benefits is killing two birds with one stone:

1) the network will be saved from becoming too weak and vulnerable to attack, it's a growing concern (https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/is-there-an-option-that-nxt-holder-will-not-get-any-fnxt/msg213584/#msg213584);
2) new funds will invested in Nxt rewarding participation rather than idle waiting for other people to do all the work;

Have a look at Dash and Bitshares for examples. No matter that their tech may be arguably worse, they have much better self sustaining economic models. Dash requires that masternodes lock in coins which gives them a right to process blocks (these coins have to be purchased on the markets and go out of circulation). Bitshares incentivizes their delegates to have an excellent uptime or be voted out by users. Nxt has nothing of the kind, the network and market cap are left to their own devices. Forgers lose interest in forging. When Nxt dominates the world this design may work, but clearly it is not enough when there are numerous strong competitors.

The solution is simple. Give forgers additional benefits and they will keep the network secure and will buy more coins, supporting the market cap. I have some money on the sidelines which I could use to buy more NXT but I don't because I don't see that my efforts will be rewarded more than the slackers who don't forge but want to claim fNXT in the future Nxt 2.0 design. I think there are others like me who could invest in Nxt more and support the market cap if they receive additional benefits for working and taking this risk. Marketing and dev work is rewarded, but forging is not motivated with the current transactions volume.

A competition in the future over several months before the 1.9 hard fork is a fair way for users to prove they deserve to receive fNXT asset. More users will start to forge to claim fNXT and more money will be poured in buying more NXT coins re-enforcing their staking accounts. Don't give fNXT to non-forgers, they have no reason to own fNXT, they are not interested in securing the network. We don't know if these accounts owners are not dead, why waste precious fNXT to them? The portion of fNXT that is not given to non-forgers can be sold at the IPO to support dev and marketing work over years, just like Ethereum and Lisk did.

If the IPO plan is to be implemented do not punish forgers taking their share of fNXT, you will give them even less reasons to forge, they are the backbone of the network. If they are gone, Nxt is gone. Take fNXT from non-forgers. A competition in the future to claim fNXT by forging is not a break of social contract. Everyone who remotely participates in Nxt will know of this competition event in advance. Who doesn't participate has no reason to claim fNXT. A sustainable competitive system must be based on participation.

There are other signs of users non participation and losing interest in the platform - fewer users on the forum, users leaving to promote other coins (IOTA, etc). No incentives to participate - death of the system.
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: Peter2516 on March 28, 2016, 07:54:03 am
About non-forgers: I have my NXT spread over several accounts and it's a hassle to keep all the accounts leased to one forging account. So mostly I forge with just one account. Also a lot of my NXT is in assets, which imo helps the NXT economy more than just keep sleeping NXT in my account. That shouldn't be 'punished' more than it would already be, when only forging accounts get rewarded with fNXT.

It would be better for a discussion of '10 Keys To Success in reinventing NXT' to have them typed out here, instead of in a (noisy) video. Or just add to the many forum discussions on this topic that already exist ;)
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: lurker10 on March 28, 2016, 08:03:05 am
About non-forgers: I have my NXT spread over several accounts and it's a hassle to keep all the accounts leased to one forging account. So mostly I forge with just one account.

This is your small technical problem. Not making the big changes because it's not convenient for you to merge accounts is beyond ridiculous. If you want to claim fNXT you will find a way to forge with all accounts. It's all about motivation. You've just proved you have no motivation to forge with all accounts, which is exactly what I am talking about - users simply don't care to secure the network in the current design.

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Also a lot of my NXT is in assets, which imo helps the NXT economy more than just keeping sleeping NXT in my account.

I think it's been discussed that assets cannot get fNXT because assets do not represent the decentralized system, no point talking about it. It's not even possible to estimate how to allocate fNXT to asset holders even there was a unanimous decision to do it.
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: Peter2516 on March 28, 2016, 08:11:54 am
About non-forgers: I have my NXT spread over several accounts and it's a hassle to keep all the accounts leased to one forging account. So mostly I forge with just one account.

This is your small technical problem. Not making the big changes because it's not convenient for you to merge accounts is beyond ridiculous. If you want to claim fNXT you will find a way to forge with all accounts. It's all about motivation. You've just proved you have no motivation to forge with all accounts, which is exactly what I am talking about - users simply don't care to secure the network in the current design.

Hmm, that maybe very well be true, but I think we should realize it's the reality that regular users will never link their accounts together using the current leasing system. Most won't even keep their wallets open on 24/7 computers... Maybe we could lengthen the leasing period to a year? ;)

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Also a lot of my NXT is in assets, which imo helps the NXT economy more than just keeping sleeping NXT in my account.

I think it's been discussed that assets cannot get fNXT because assets do not represent the decentralized system, no point talking about it. It's not even possible to estimate how to allocate fNXT to asset holders even there was a unanimous decision to do it.

No point talking about it? :D It may cause a (we hope temporary) dump of assets, it causes some influential community members to leave NXT. Again, something we should fully realize. And if it can't be helped technically, we should try our best not to 'punish' asset holders more than technically unavoidable.
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: lurker10 on March 28, 2016, 08:20:29 am
If users do not forge all the time, they should get less fNXT, proportionate to the number of blocks they will have forged over the competition phase in the future. The alternative to this is placing the system at high risk of being attacked because of the large non forging stake. Users should make a decision if they want to be regular users who do a few transactions and close the client or if they want to dedicate more of their time to secure the system. The latter should have more tools to do the job. Systems grow to be big and efficient through division of labor.

About fNXT and asset holders. It's technically unavoidable. It's been discussed and confirmed some weeks ago by the devs in that big thread started by Jean Luc. So no point discussing it again now.
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: yassin54 on March 28, 2016, 09:30:38 am
woooow it is long time my friend!!   8)

welcome back, i hope your father will are good!!  :-\

Big love my friend!!  :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: Hachoir on March 28, 2016, 09:47:34 am
1:1 ratio is the best way to distribute the fNxt
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: lurker10 on March 28, 2016, 09:55:03 am
1:1 ratio is the best way to distribute the fNxt

This makes IPO impossible if 1 billion fNXT are issued, there'll be nothing to sell.

If more than 1 billion fNXT are issued to sell in the IPO, it's dilution of coins, tax on everyone = socialism. Socialism generates a large rate of free riders. The system collapses under the weight of entitlements supported by a small number of workers. Nxt is sort of socialism now, many stakeholders buy their stakes and think they are entitled to sit idle and be secured by others. The plunging forging stake and diminishing number of nodes prove socialism doesn't work in the long run. Workers must be incentivized (examples: Dash, Bitshares economic models).

The proposal rewarding participation and self sustainability of the system is to create 1 billion fNXT, sell 100(?) million in the IPO to fund dev and marketing work, and distribute 900 million to forgers who prove they are competent and willing to secure the network in the competition phase lasting 6 months in the future before the 1.9 hard fork.
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: Peter2516 on March 28, 2016, 11:11:12 am
To be clear (for any lurkers), it's YOUR proposal :)
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: Brangdon on March 28, 2016, 11:19:04 am
Here is my summary of the video, for those of us who prefer text. Feel free to produce a better, more detailed one. I am not Tai Zen. I hope I've not misrepresented him, and I'll edit this if he thinks I have.

Preamble:
Tai Zen's credentials and history
History of NXT issuance. Mistakes made include apparent pre-mine, curtailing of ICO, and small distribution.

The points:
Concluding words:
If Madonna can reinvent herself, so can Nxt. This needs to happen before the end of 2016.
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: EvilDave on March 28, 2016, 11:20:01 am
About non-forgers: I have my NXT spread over several accounts and it's a hassle to keep all the accounts leased to one forging account. So mostly I forge with just one account. Also a lot of my NXT is in assets, which imo helps the NXT economy more than just keep sleeping NXT in my account. That shouldn't be 'punished' more than it would already be, when only forging accounts get rewarded with fNXT.

It would be better for a discussion of '10 Keys To Success in reinventing NXT' to have them typed out here, instead of in a (noisy) video. Or just add to the many forum discussions on this topic that already exist ;)

Very much yeah...a summary of the video would be very useful for this discussion. Tai...feel like some more work ?
Thanks, Brangdon, perfect timing.

Just to kick off:  one of the most important points to realise right now is that scalability is about to become a very hot topic (imho).
Vitalik B is already making moves to position Ethereum as having a scalability solution, with a proposal that looks very slightly like Jean-Lucs sidechains proposal for Nxt 2.0, if you squint a little.
Scalablity will soon be very important, not just as a long-term technical solution to get more transactions moved, but also as a short-term marketing/PR tool.
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: Brangdon on March 28, 2016, 11:25:17 am
On point 3, did you read the Nxt whitepaper (http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Whitepaper:Nxt), or where you just reading the Java source code?
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: lurker10 on March 28, 2016, 11:30:37 am
To be clear (for any lurkers), it's YOUR proposal :)

If you talk about the proposal rewarding participation, it's not entirely mine as Jean Luc had said some portion of fNXT has to be possibly sold to fund the IPO, but the competition phase and rewarding forgers part of the proposal is mine.
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: Damelon on March 28, 2016, 02:04:32 pm
Have a look at Dash and Bitshares for examples. No matter that their tech may be arguably worse, they have much better self sustaining economic models. Dash requires that masternodes lock in coins which gives them a right to process blocks (these coins have to be purchased on the markets and go out of circulation). Bitshares incentivizes their delegates to have an excellent uptime or be voted out by users. Nxt has nothing of the kind, the network and market cap are left to their own devices. Forgers lose interest in forging. When Nxt dominates the world this design may work, but clearly it is not enough when there are numerous strong competitors.

The solution is simple. Give forgers additional benefits and they will keep the network secure and will buy more coins, supporting the market cap. I have some money on the sidelines which I could use to buy more NXT but I don't because I don't see that my efforts will be rewarded more than the slackers who don't forge but want to claim fNXT in the future Nxt 2.0 design. I think there are others like me who could invest in Nxt more and support the market cap if they receive additional benefits for working and taking this risk. Marketing and dev work is rewarded, but forging is not motivated with the current transactions volume.

I agree with this, but have no idea which they could be.
Seems like a discussion worth having...
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: websioux on March 28, 2016, 02:35:03 pm
For me, 5 and 6 are central. Without them clear: you have no story to tell. BCnext had one, improve bitcoin. Now that it is done, we are lost.

So here is my perception of this.

As an e-Business inventor who tries to exploit the new territories that crypto-currencies have opened and who tries to do it in an "ethical way" (I only define ethic as a way I feel proud of..), for me, NXT is the crypto network to choose because :

I need a database of reference with the crypto p2p network characteristics (resilient, immuable, ID of data writer, data ownership and value exchange mechanisms). Then, these datas can be read, manipulated and even marketed by others! which is a strong disruptive marketing point that I'm thrilled about. I'm not thinking about building website anymore but protocols : "how to use the underlying crypto network to propose this or this solution to the outside world problem". Off course, I'll have to build website, but just for convenience and to capture some marketed value. But not for my creation to exist. The creation will exist as a form of text that describe how to use the crypto network (a protocol).

A network pegged to Bitcoin could probably offer the same level of features and security, but POW is such a disturbing concept due to the waste of energy. So I have to concede some initial "security" to look outside Bitcoin to find an evolution of Pow. I first found Gridcoin, who succeed to use POW to devote computer power for research topics. But Nxt was the first to offer a more complete solution... but still a partial solution... It has always been researching and improving, with always all required emphasis on security coming from experienced volunteers. But until scalability was solved, it was only a partial solution to me. Since there is now a plan that seems to correctly address the scalability issue, NXT now offers me, for the first time (again..) the serious vision that a global crytpo network is a real possibility.

Competitors coins are younger, they are interesting to look at, but there are also full of uncertainties. On the web, everyone tells you: its easy : click here and its done you have what you've ever dreamed of.. After 14 years of professional clicking, I can say that this is NEVER true. I've lost so much time because of these folks. Now I save my time and money and go to the more experienced ones who make the hard job of not making easy promises.

NXT seems a good choice to me because : no POW (ethic) , color coins (broaden possibilities), API focused (100 times more important than a client to me), no Turing complete smart contract (this scares me that transactions does not goes trough and everything will break), inputs from a lot of talentuous anonymous people.. (anomity is important here).

What I feel is missing now, is the factorisation of the features into more general functions. All these features are hard to remember, MS and AE are almost the same but not really. When you look in the DB you realize there should be only one model with two different set of parameters.. and not two different entities with similar way of using them and understanding them. I thinks this is true on many topics. That's because Nxt as evolved from a challenge to exist, to a serie of demonstrations for color coins implementations... and that's where it is now. A showcase of some implementations on a solid crypto basement.

Make it a really multiface tool made for developers to play with. Let them take care of the non tech users, with unlimited use case targets. In fact, it may well be the first crypto cloud, the first true data cloud.

Which brings me the a new name idea : XCloud (for me that what it is and it even has a very usefull built-in currency feature  :P).

PS: Tai zen, I like what your do, but if by the end of 2016 you do what you say you would : NXT-SL44-R65Z-HMNZ-7WVJM  I'll take care of them.  ;D
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: Brangdon on March 28, 2016, 02:37:16 pm
3. 3 month ICO so everyone has time to get involved.
I wasn't around back then, but I gather the original ICO ran from Sep 28 to Nov 18, or 50 days. I'm not sure that running for twice as long would have made that much difference. In any case, the price has been so low for so long that surely everyone who wants to could have bought.

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4. Avoid centralisation by distributing to 1000+ people.
If you can get that many interested. I distrust giving coins away for free because people tend not to value them. The more people, the more bystander apathy.

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5. Publish PoS algorithm in an annotated and understandable way, to address security concerns.
As I wrote above, we already have a whitepaper. Also, haven't we established our security by running live for several years, with a market cap often over $10,000,000? Is this still an issue for serious potential investors?

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8. Get Microsoft on board.
I'm guessing that's easier said than done. If wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak.

(I always wanted to use that quote.)

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9. Set aside funding for development and marketing.
That would be the major, if not only, point of an ICO.

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This needs to happen before the end of 2016.
So before Nxt 2.0 is ready? That's kinda tough. The timing here is terrible.
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: durerus on March 28, 2016, 03:16:24 pm
I agree with this, but have no idea which they could be.
Seems like a discussion worth having...

Yeah. Let's discuss socialistic distribution models forever or at least until Casper comes and ETH copies JL's scalability solution. And especially: Let's prevent a pump of NXT price by all means to not hurt the feelings of toxic asset issuers who don't care about the future of Nxt. And let's screw early adopters by a new ICO.

Irony off.

People will forge when it is profitable or when they love Nxt again. It will be profitable and loved when we have more users and the price of NXT or fNXT rises. We will have more users with 2.0. We will have higher price by aggressively marketing 2.0 and having a 1:1 distribution according to JL's original plan. Let's pump the shit out of this! Why the hell not?

Enough discussions with asset issuers and people who don't hold enough NXT to even try to understand what the 2.0 proposal means. I want a vote about JL's 2.0 proposal with 1 NXT = 1 vote. Yes or now?
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: NXT ENTERPRISE on March 28, 2016, 03:25:12 pm
This is another awesome post

Some great PR points and ideas are coming out now.

Time to turn the trend by an action plan and spread efforts to push these ideas.

For me, 5 and 6 are central. Without them clear: you have no story to tell. BCnext had one, improve bitcoin. Now that it is done, we are lost.

So here is my perception of this.

As an e-Business inventor who tries to exploit the new territories that crypto-currencies have opened and who tries to do it in an "ethical way" (I only define ethic as a way I feel proud of..), for me, NXT is the crypto network to choose because :

I need a database of reference with the crypto p2p network characteristics (resilient, immuable, ID of data writer, data ownership and value exchange mechanisms). Then, these datas can be read, manipulated and even marketed by others! which is a strong disruptive marketing point that I'm thrilled about. I'm not thinking about building website anymore but protocols : "how to use the underlying crypto network to propose this or this solution to the outside world problem". Off course, I'll have to build website, but just for convenience and to capture some marketed value. But not for my creation to exist. The creation will exist as a form of text that describe how to use the crypto network (a protocol).

A network pegged to Bitcoin could probably offer the same level of features and security, but POW is such a disturbing concept due to the waste of energy. So I have to concede some initial "security" to look outside Bitcoin to find an evolution of Pow. I first found Gridcoin, who succeed to use POW to devote computer power for research topics. But Nxt was the first to offer a more complete solution... but still a partial solution... It has always been researching and improving, with always all required emphasis on security coming from experienced volunteers. But until scalability was solved, it was only a partial solution to me. Since there is now a plan that seems to correctly address the scalability issue, NXT now offers me, for the first time (again..) the serious vision that a global crytpo network is a real possibility.

Competitors coins are younger, they are interesting to look at, but there are also full of uncertainties. On the web, everyone tells you: its easy : click here and its done you have what you've ever dreamed of.. After 14 years of professional clicking, I can say that this is NEVER true. I've lost so much time because of these folks. Now I save my time and money and go to the more experienced ones who make the hard job of not making easy promises.

NXT seems a good choice to me because : no POW (ethic) , color coins (broaden possibilities), API focused (100 times more important than a client to me), no Turing complete smart contract (this scares me that transactions does not goes trough and everything will break), inputs from a lot of talentuous anonymous people.. (anomity is important here).

What I feel is missing now, is the factorisation of the features into more general functions. All these features are hard to remember, MS and AE are almost the same but not really. When you look in the DB you realize there should be only one model with two different set of parameters.. and not two different entities with similar way of using them and understanding them. I thinks this is true on many topics. That's because Nxt as evolved from a challenge to exist, to a serie of demonstrations for color coins implementations... and that's where it is now. A showcase of some implementations on a solid crypto basement.

Make it a really multiface tool made for developers to play with. Let them take care of the non tech users, with unlimited use case targets. In fact, it may well be the first crypto cloud, the first true data cloud.

Which brings me the a new name idea : XCloud (for me that what it is and it even has a very usefull built-in currency feature  :P).

PS: Tai zen, I like what your do, but if by the end of 2016 you do what you say you would : NXT-SL44-R65Z-HMNZ-7WVJM  I'll take care of them.  ;D
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: sadface on March 28, 2016, 04:07:21 pm
that reutilization of 'okay' had me thinking of southpark :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqOsrniBooQ

other than that video was well done ofc (not here to discuss content).
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: lurker10 on March 28, 2016, 04:42:25 pm
I agree with this, but have no idea which they could be.
Seems like a discussion worth having...

Yeah. Let's discuss socialistic distribution models forever or at least until Casper comes and ETH copies JL's scalability solution. And especially: Let's prevent a pump of NXT price by all means to not hurt the feelings of toxic asset issuers who don't care about the future of Nxt. And let's screw early adopters by a new ICO.

Irony off.

People will forge when it is profitable or when they love Nxt again. It will be profitable and loved when we have more users and the price of NXT or fNXT rises. We will have more users with 2.0. We will have higher price by aggressively marketing 2.0 and having a 1:1 distribution according to JL's original plan. Let's pump the shit out of this! Why the hell not?

Enough discussions with asset issuers and people who don't hold enough NXT to even try to understand what the 2.0 proposal means. I want a vote about JL's 2.0 proposal with 1 NXT = 1 vote. Yes or now?

+1440

There'll never be an agreement who to expropriate from for an IPO. The idea of IPO is flawed. Let's go with the 1:1 fNXT distribution and be done with it. This community can't decide anything, too much discussion by the same people, the rest just don't care. Jean Luc's original plan for the win.
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: Sebastien256 on March 28, 2016, 05:26:34 pm
I agree with this, but have no idea which they could be.
Seems like a discussion worth having...

Yeah. Let's discuss socialistic distribution models forever or at least until Casper comes and ETH copies JL's scalability solution. And especially: Let's prevent a pump of NXT price by all means to not hurt the feelings of toxic asset issuers who don't care about the future of Nxt. And let's screw early adopters by a new ICO.

Irony off.

People will forge when it is profitable or when they love Nxt again. It will be profitable and loved when we have more users and the price of NXT or fNXT rises. We will have more users with 2.0. We will have higher price by aggressively marketing 2.0 and having a 1:1 distribution according to JL's original plan. Let's pump the shit out of this! Why the hell not?

Enough discussions with asset issuers and people who don't hold enough NXT to even try to understand what the 2.0 proposal means. I want a vote about JL's 2.0 proposal with 1 NXT = 1 vote. Yes or now?

+1440

There'll never be an agreement who to expropriate from for an IPO. The idea of IPO is flawed. Let's go with the 1:1 fNXT distribution and be done with it. This community can't decide anything, too much discussion by the same people, the rest just don't care. Jean Luc's original plan for the win.

I also agree a vote would be good. At least the vote could be a yes or no on JL proposal. If a yes is the result, we could vote later on how and when to do the 1:1 distribution. If the results is negative we could then vote between two proposal at a time on furture poll and always kept the more popular proposition in a next poll. This mean on the second poll (if need) JL proposal would still be a choice. At the very least thing would advance. After a few poll, a clear preference will show up. I suggest NXT foundation to organize the polls.
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: CryptKeeper on March 28, 2016, 06:01:37 pm
Hi Tai Zen and welcome back!  :-* :D 

I've thought we've lost you, glad that we didn't. Thanks for contributing to the Nxt 2.0 discussion!
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: Tai Zen on March 28, 2016, 06:13:04 pm
Fellow Nxters,

1.  Many of you guys myself and my buddy Leon Fu as early investors of NXT.  In addition to Marc De Mesel, we have made the most NXT videos online to help promote NXT since it first came out.  We even went to the 1st Texas Bitcoin Conference to spread the word about NXT.  In addition, myself and Damelon and others in the NXT community to help organize and start the NXT Foundation so we can help promote NXT.  Due to my father in law's open heart surgery which consumed all my time and resources, I had to resign from the NXT Foundation.  However, I still followed NXT behind the scenes.

2.  I have not made any videos about NXT during it's decline in the crypto community because I had no solution to fix the decline in NXT.  However, the recent successes of Ethereum, Auger, Lisk, etc. and talk of NXT 2.0 has prompted Leon Fu and I (with input from our friend James D'Angelo from the World Bitcoin Network) to come up with these 10 Keys To Success in reinventing NXT. 

3.  We are calling this proposal "The Madonna Solution" because we believe that NXT needs to reinvent itself in order to avoid extinction.  Here is our proposal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGRUERF2FHk

Let me know your thoughts guys...

Enjoy
Tai Zen

Great video, and good suggestions too!

I disagree we need a new ICO though, I think we just need to push the idea that every NXT bought now entitles the buyer to fNXT after 2.0 launch. We could even do the same as what LISK did and create a NXT 2.0 branded 'IPO' page that uses shapeshift as the backend so people can buy fNXT with any crypto they like. We could even add a small fee that went into a dev fund.

Obviously people more familiar with crypto would realise they could just buy NXT at a regular exchange, but there's nothing stopping us creating the IPO 'vibe' like LISK did with such success. Obviously the price for a NXT 2.0 IPO isn't fixed, but with the right marketing it would be easy to push the idea that NXT is going to rise in price as fNXT and 2.0 plans become more widely known, so there's an early bird discount of sorts.

As for marketing, I think there are only two really interesting people to come out of the crypto scene so far, Satoshi and BCNext. There's lots of other cool people for sure, but nobody can compete with the mystique and understated charisma of what they did, and how they did it, and given that Satoshi has a million bitcoins (supposedly) and BCNext walked away with nothing, BCNext is a far more intriguing figure in many ways.

NXT has always lacked a front man like Andresen, or Andreas Antonopolous, or Vitalek Buterin, but a new marketing effort could still use BCNext as a front man of sorts to grab some attention. Obviously he can't appear at conferences, but others could talk about him and what his values were, and what his actions meant for decentralisation and open source development.

Most people know very little about Che Guevara but his image still became a cultural icon and a powerful symbol about 'values', and after he was dead. The 'anonymous' face mask is the same.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/1zxw9yr.jpg)

When I think of BCNext I imagine an idealistic eccentric genius, but also a realist "A world with the money can not be perfect". By giving away his NXT creation without making any money himself he did something really quite amazing, and unique compared to every other alt coin. The NXT IPO was a Black Swan event, and despite the envy problem from other crypto early adopters, it's a great story, and end users of crypto products and services wont care. Do regular people not use a product or service because of concern over the wealth of founders and early investors? History of Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Air BnB etc suggests NO!

I also love that BCNet purposely set out to raise 21 bitoins exactly in the IPO as a homage to Satoshi and the 21M bitcoins, that's a nice touch, and shows his respect to Satoshi.

BCNext is a great marketing asset, and we need to start using him asap.

BCNext was about the "WHY" of crypto currency (make the world a bit better), not just the 'What' and 'How'. Someone posted this video in the iOTA thread and it made me think about how much activity in the cryptospere appears to be about money, and technical achievements, and 'ego', and fame even, but BCNext seems to have had absolutely no interest in any of those things, and that's really interesting, and inspiring, and I think we should honor that, (and cynically use it to pump fNXT to da moon lol). Seriously, BCNext is marketing gold, and we don't need to pay him haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sioZd3AxmnE

I agree that Satoshi is a genius. As for BCNext, he is nobody and outside NXT no body cares or even knows who he is.

He will never go down in the history of crypto as anybody.  I even forgot who he was until recently when I had to review my notes to make this video.

Millions of dollars went into marketing bitcoin and ethereum to make it the #1 & #2 crypto on the market today.  The idea that NXT can reach that type of exposure for free without marketing and development funding is just wishful thinking.

Tai Zen
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: Tai Zen on March 28, 2016, 06:15:29 pm
woooow it is long time my friend!!   8)

welcome back, i hope your father will are good!!  :-\

Big love my friend!!  :-* :-* :-*

Thanks bro.
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: Tai Zen on March 28, 2016, 06:24:29 pm
Here is my summary of the video, for those of us who prefer text. Feel free to produce a better, more detailed one. I am not Tai Zen. I hope I've not misrepresented him, and I'll edit this if he thinks I have.

Preamble:
Tai Zen's credentials and history
History of NXT issuance. Mistakes made include apparent pre-mine, curtailing of ICO, and small distribution.

The points:
  • 3 month ICO so everyone has time to get involved.
  • Avoid centralisation by distributing to 1000+ people.
  • Publish PoS algorithm in an annotated and understandable way, to address security concerns.
  • Announce in Bitcoin conferences (see Ethereum).
  • Identify clear use case and customer.
  • Two crucial marketing questions:
       What customer pain does Nxt solve?
       What solution is the customer searching for?
  • Bonuses to incentivise ICO investment.
  • Get Microsoft on board.
  • Set aside funding for development and marketing.
  • New name, that answers the questions in 6.
Concluding words:
If Madonna can reinvent herself, so can Nxt. This needs to happen before the end of 2016.

Thanks for the summary bro!
Tai Zen
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: Tosch110 on March 28, 2016, 07:46:06 pm
Tai Zen, welcome back! Looking forward to this discussion! Glad to see you thinking about the problems and proposing a solution.

I do not agree with all of the points you made but there are some essential things on your list. Good work!
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: JohnHolmes on March 28, 2016, 11:44:23 pm
Fellow Nxters,

1.  Many of you guys myself and my buddy Leon Fu as early investors of NXT.  In addition to Marc De Mesel, we have made the most NXT videos online to help promote NXT since it first came out.  We even went to the 1st Texas Bitcoin Conference to spread the word about NXT.  In addition, myself and Damelon and others in the NXT community to help organize and start the NXT Foundation so we can help promote NXT.  Due to my father in law's open heart surgery which consumed all my time and resources, I had to resign from the NXT Foundation.  However, I still followed NXT behind the scenes.

2.  I have not made any videos about NXT during it's decline in the crypto community because I had no solution to fix the decline in NXT.  However, the recent successes of Ethereum, Auger, Lisk, etc. and talk of NXT 2.0 has prompted Leon Fu and I (with input from our friend James D'Angelo from the World Bitcoin Network) to come up with these 10 Keys To Success in reinventing NXT. 

3.  We are calling this proposal "The Madonna Solution" because we believe that NXT needs to reinvent itself in order to avoid extinction.  Here is our proposal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGRUERF2FHk

Let me know your thoughts guys...

Enjoy
Tai Zen

Great video, and good suggestions too!

I disagree we need a new ICO though, I think we just need to push the idea that every NXT bought now entitles the buyer to fNXT after 2.0 launch. We could even do the same as what LISK did and create a NXT 2.0 branded 'IPO' page that uses shapeshift as the backend so people can buy fNXT with any crypto they like. We could even add a small fee that went into a dev fund.

Obviously people more familiar with crypto would realise they could just buy NXT at a regular exchange, but there's nothing stopping us creating the IPO 'vibe' like LISK did with such success. Obviously the price for a NXT 2.0 IPO isn't fixed, but with the right marketing it would be easy to push the idea that NXT is going to rise in price as fNXT and 2.0 plans become more widely known, so there's an early bird discount of sorts.

As for marketing, I think there are only two really interesting people to come out of the crypto scene so far, Satoshi and BCNext. There's lots of other cool people for sure, but nobody can compete with the mystique and understated charisma of what they did, and how they did it, and given that Satoshi has a million bitcoins (supposedly) and BCNext walked away with nothing, BCNext is a far more intriguing figure in many ways.

NXT has always lacked a front man like Andresen, or Andreas Antonopolous, or Vitalek Buterin, but a new marketing effort could still use BCNext as a front man of sorts to grab some attention. Obviously he can't appear at conferences, but others could talk about him and what his values were, and what his actions meant for decentralisation and open source development.

Most people know very little about Che Guevara but his image still became a cultural icon and a powerful symbol about 'values', and after he was dead. The 'anonymous' face mask is the same.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/1zxw9yr.jpg)

When I think of BCNext I imagine an idealistic eccentric genius, but also a realist "A world with the money can not be perfect". By giving away his NXT creation without making any money himself he did something really quite amazing, and unique compared to every other alt coin. The NXT IPO was a Black Swan event, and despite the envy problem from other crypto early adopters, it's a great story, and end users of crypto products and services wont care. Do regular people not use a product or service because of concern over the wealth of founders and early investors? History of Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Air BnB etc suggests NO!

I also love that BCNet purposely set out to raise 21 bitoins exactly in the IPO as a homage to Satoshi and the 21M bitcoins, that's a nice touch, and shows his respect to Satoshi.

BCNext is a great marketing asset, and we need to start using him asap.

BCNext was about the "WHY" of crypto currency (make the world a bit better), not just the 'What' and 'How'. Someone posted this video in the iOTA thread and it made me think about how much activity in the cryptospere appears to be about money, and technical achievements, and 'ego', and fame even, but BCNext seems to have had absolutely no interest in any of those things, and that's really interesting, and inspiring, and I think we should honor that, (and cynically use it to pump fNXT to da moon lol). Seriously, BCNext is marketing gold, and we don't need to pay him haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sioZd3AxmnE

I agree that Satoshi is a genius. As for BCNext, he is nobody and outside NXT no body cares or even knows who he is.

He will never go down in the history of crypto as anybody.  I even forgot who he was until recently when I had to review my notes to make this video.

Millions of dollars went into marketing bitcoin and ethereum to make it the #1 & #2 crypto on the market today.  The idea that NXT can reach that type of exposure for free without marketing and development funding is just wishful thinking.

Tai Zen

I think you're probably right Tai, but that makes me a little sad that what BCNext created, and how he gave it away means very little. IMO we only have the internet and the WWW because the people who invented the tech (tcp/ip, http) were community minded in how they distributed their inventions. The services on top like Google, YouTube and Facebook can make money because the tech underneath them was free and open to develop.

You're right though, we live in a world where marketing moves mountains. We all know Apple exploits cheap labor in the third world, and Steve Jobs in person was probably a pretty awful guy to work for (and even be related to), yet the world reacted to his death like Princess Diana 2.0 ... that was weird!. I guess the reason is they had great user friendly products, and Apple marketing was simple and brilliant most of the time, and that's what NXT needs now. I think the killer product we have is the asset exchange, and later the child chains from 2.0.

I also think changing the name would be a mistake. I always say 'en x tee', so if we need a new name for legal reasons, why not 'ENXTEE', or 'enXtee'? Just don't say 'next' anymore, say the three letters. I agree Madonna is a good example of someone successfully re-inventing themselves, but she didn't change her name, or disown her past, she evolved. When Prince changed his name to that symbol thingy he lost something, that's why afaik he's back to 'Prince' again.
Title: Re: The Madonna Solution - A Proposal To Reinvent NXT In 2016 To Avoid Extinction
Post by: farl4bit on March 29, 2016, 10:02:44 am
Good to hear from you TaiZen, you have great video's with a clear plan. I like that! I don't have time to respond in details now. Hope to see you around more.  :)
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